Air Atlanta apply for UK AOC and OL

[dogsnutz]

I see from the latest CAA Official Record Series 2 that Air Atlanta Europe Limited is applying for a UK AOC and Operating licence with global rights.

If ownership and control has to be in UK hands, where does that leave the Icelanders? ;)

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/1556.pdf

[Just Plane Mad]

It probably leaves the Icelanders still in Iceland ?!?

Do you think they have done this because they are about to sign a big contract which gives them better traffic rights etc if they are in the G- reg ????

[Knold]

Bye bye to flying all night and day and night and day....;)

[Cathar]

Dogsnutz

I dodn't think that ownership and control has to be in UK hands. EC Council Regulation 2907/92 on on licensing of air carriers requires that operating licences may only be issued to undertaking owned directly or through majority ownership by Member States and/or nationals of Member States. It also requires that it shall at all times be effectively controlled by such States or such nationals. This Regulation has been extended by the EEA Agreement. Therefore if I understand the situation correctly a UK airline can be owned and controlled by nationals of any EC/EEA state which includes Iceland.

[Woodman]

What about Britannia and JMC being owned by Germans? And didn't BA get permission to increase the foreign shareholding element?

[411A]

Now if only they could get their maintenance department in order....gosh, they just might have too.;)

[charterguy]

I hope Atlanta's application will be successful as they will have had to battle with 5th freedom objections from European. :)

Until such time that European realise that they cannot reasonably charge VIP prices for 20+ year old 'clapped out' 747s, Atlanta will be the better bet for tour operators and consumers in the UK.

Operators who have paid a realistic market price for their 747s, charge a full charter rate of around $13-15k per hour. So what would be a realistic charge per hour for those cheapo 747s that European acquired from BA (rumour has it that they paid less than $1m a piece) ?

Any finance guys out there to answer this one ? :confused:

[Zeitgebers]

Iceland is a member of the JAA.

It is also a member of the UN, NATO, The Council of Europe (CE), The European Economic Area (EEA), and The European Free Trade Area (EFTA) amongst others.

It is not a member of the European Union (EU).

As there is no JAR-OPS sub-part Q published ( nor is there likely to be for some time ) it is up to each member state to enforce their own FTLs.

Icelandic FTLs to be used by an airline based in the UK ? !!
And no recourse to EU labour laws ? !!

No wonder they are itching to get their feet in the door.

What do Balpa say ?

[Max Flyup]

If Air Atlanta are to become a genuine paid up UK charter airline does that mean they will obey UK employment law and tax law? In particular the tax free (!!) payment offshore in US$ to UK domiciled aircrew will cease? Interesting...

[Just Plane Mad]

Charter Guy,

Yeah I heard too and also been told by someone very close to Paul Stoddard that he paid £900,00 GBP per acft from BA and the finance repayments are only GBP40,000 per month. CHEAP OR CHEAP !!!!!

[irishcc]

Hi guys,

First of all, Air Atlanta Europe Limited will be the name for the company.
It will be operating with a British AOC and the aircraft on the "G" reg.
This will commence, pendng AOC, in November/December time with a 767-200, followed by three more 767's in the early part of next year. Air Atlanta has been approached by various tour companies to operate long haul flights, however, previously they were only allowed operate flights in the EU as aircraft were not registered in UK. Hence the new company !

With the 767 being more economical to operate, I am sure EAC will be under some pressure to compete !

[crewrest]

Will Air Atlanta be operatingb a couple certain silver 747s with nice IFE and seats that are currently sitting in Mohave?

[Psr777]

This Air Atlanta operation wouldn't have anything to do with flights to the Carribean would it, for a new operator??

:p :rolleyes: :p

[irishcc]

The flights will be operated and marketed as Air Atlanta Europe - the aircraft is intended to operate in full Air Atlanta colours, and not leased to any other carrier !

Just thought I would show you the official company statement on this matter :

Air Atlanta Europe Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Air Atlanta Icelandic, has applied to the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority for an Air Operator’s Certificate to enable it to operate flights under its own flight number from the United Kingdom to destinations outside of the European Union.

Hafthor Hafsteinsson, President and CEO, Air Atlanta Icelandic, said, “We have been leasing our aircraft to airlines operating into and out of the United Kingdom for more than 15 years. We have occasionally operated flights under our own flight number but the rules only allow us to do this within the European Union. We have now been asked by our customers to fly to destinations outside of the EU and to take up this opportunity we must have a UK AOC.”

It is intended to transfer a Boeing 767-200 aircraft from the Icelandic to the UK register this winter and offer the aircraft on the charter and leasing market. Consideration of further transfers will be made with regard to market conditions in Spring 2003.

Air Atlanta has leased aircraft to airlines operating into and out of the United Kingdom since its inception in 1986. It currently operates Boeing 747 and 767 aircraft out of Gatwick and Manchester airports and has a maintenance and workshop facility at London Manston. Further aircraft are currently flying for airlines in France, Spain, the Caribbean, Argentina and Nigeria.

[ShotOne]

Well good luck to Air Atlanta if they are to become a UK airline. So long as they are playing by the same rules (ftl, employment law) as everyone else, they are welcome.

I wonder how the other UK airlines who have "saved money" over the past few years by hiving off their flights to Atlanta feel about this. What they have done is introduce a competitor to their marketplace.

[middlepath]

How about flight crew licence? do they have to be UK/JAR licence holder?

Flight crew has to be UK/JAR licence holder?

[ShotOne]

You must be losing your touch, 411a. Nobody has risen to your bait about their maintenance department. Would you like to elaborate?

[411A]

Quite right ShotOne, I guess many have forgotten October 1998...and the UK CAA grounding...:eek: :rolleyes:

[Woodman]

And the grounding was raised as soon as the CAA had checked the accusations and found them groundless.

[Sharjah Night Shift]

A maintenance and workshop facility at London Manston.

Do they mean the shed surrounded by what appears to be a junk yard?

[411A]

...with few yellow tags in sight? But hey, that was a couple of years ago, perhaps now is ah..."different" (or maybe not):rolleyes: Time (and the UKCAA) will tell.

[Cathar]

Air Atlanta were never grounded by the CAA. The CAA revoked their approval for several UK airlines to wet lease aircraft from Air Atlanta. Air Atlanta were never prevented from carrying out operation in the UK under their own traffic rights. As Woodman says the CAA approvals were restored once the issue in question had been investigated.

[Flybob]

Just a small note to clarify.
The report that the UK CAA were obliged to act apon was submitted by a disgruntled recently fired employee. The UK CAA were totally correct to investigate and did so thoroughly.
The MX operation in MSE and the spares handeling division at that time in Poyle was audited thoroughly by both the UK CAA and the Icelandic CAA.
There were no transgressions found in reference to the report that was submitted. Both CAA bodies instantly re instated all AAIs operating rights.
AAIs MX operation is off the field at MSE and the only facility on the airfield that is used in the line mx office, operations, and the line interior shop.
All other facilities are provided by purpose built JAR approved facilities located within a few miles of the airfield. These facilites provide overhaul and component maintenance on a wide and ever expanding variety of aircraft components. All of which are given a fully approved JAR form one servicable label. These facilities are operated by an english arm of Air Atlanta called Avia services which is governed by the UK CAA and UK Law. As such they meet or exceed all UK legaslative requirments, (They are also ISO approved) and are regularly audited by the same.
Avia services provide overhaul and parts supply on a regular basis to a variety of UK and International airlines. VAA BA etc. I dont think they need any further recommendation than that.
Please visit their web site for further infomation.
If its good enough for the UKs best, I fail to see how this could be construde as shoddy.

[VIKING9]

So if Air Atlanta get a UK AOC, does this mean that Iceland will still be the Ops Control centre, or will that have to move to the UK?

[radartostby]

ALSO,

I wonder if this will involve the B747 fleet sooner, rather than later?