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Air Atlanta apply for UK AOC and OL

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Air Atlanta apply for UK AOC and OL

Old 3rd Sep 2002, 12:49
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Exclamation Air Atlanta apply for UK AOC and OL

I see from the latest CAA Official Record Series 2 that Air Atlanta Europe Limited is applying for a UK AOC and Operating licence with global rights.

If ownership and control has to be in UK hands, where does that leave the Icelanders?

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/1556.pdf
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 14:20
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Atlanta Europe Etc......

It probably leaves the Icelanders still in Iceland ?!?

Do you think they have done this because they are about to sign a big contract which gives them better traffic rights etc if they are in the G- reg ????
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 14:46
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Bye bye to flying all night and day and night and day....
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 18:00
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Dogsnutz

I dodn't think that ownership and control has to be in UK hands. EC Council Regulation 2907/92 on on licensing of air carriers requires that operating licences may only be issued to undertaking owned directly or through majority ownership by Member States and/or nationals of Member States. It also requires that it shall at all times be effectively controlled by such States or such nationals. This Regulation has been extended by the EEA Agreement. Therefore if I understand the situation correctly a UK airline can be owned and controlled by nationals of any EC/EEA state which includes Iceland.
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 18:52
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What about Britannia and JMC being owned by Germans? And didn't BA get permission to increase the foreign shareholding element?
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 19:56
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Now if only they could get their maintenance department in order....gosh, they just might have too.
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Old 3rd Sep 2002, 23:01
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Thumbs up

I hope Atlanta's application will be successful as they will have had to battle with 5th freedom objections from European.

Until such time that European realise that they cannot reasonably charge VIP prices for 20+ year old 'clapped out' 747s, Atlanta will be the better bet for tour operators and consumers in the UK.

Operators who have paid a realistic market price for their 747s, charge a full charter rate of around $13-15k per hour. So what would be a realistic charge per hour for those cheapo 747s that European acquired from BA (rumour has it that they paid less than $1m a piece) ?

Any finance guys out there to answer this one ?
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 00:10
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Iceland is a member of the JAA.

It is also a member of the UN, NATO, The Council of Europe (CE), The European Economic Area (EEA), and The European Free Trade Area (EFTA) amongst others.

It is not a member of the European Union (EU).

As there is no JAR-OPS sub-part Q published ( nor is there likely to be for some time ) it is up to each member state to enforce their own FTLs.

Icelandic FTLs to be used by an airline based in the UK ? !!
And no recourse to EU labour laws ? !!

No wonder they are itching to get their feet in the door.

What do Balpa say ?
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 07:20
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If Air Atlanta are to become a genuine paid up UK charter airline does that mean they will obey UK employment law and tax law? In particular the tax free (!!) payment offshore in US$ to UK domiciled aircrew will cease? Interesting...
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 08:35
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Finance for EAAC 747's

Charter Guy,

Yeah I heard too and also been told by someone very close to Paul Stoddard that he paid £900,00 GBP per acft from BA and the finance repayments are only GBP40,000 per month. CHEAP OR CHEAP !!!!!
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 10:32
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Hi guys,

First of all, Air Atlanta Europe Limited will be the name for the company.
It will be operating with a British AOC and the aircraft on the "G" reg.
This will commence, pendng AOC, in November/December time with a 767-200, followed by three more 767's in the early part of next year. Air Atlanta has been approached by various tour companies to operate long haul flights, however, previously they were only allowed operate flights in the EU as aircraft were not registered in UK. Hence the new company !

With the 767 being more economical to operate, I am sure EAC will be under some pressure to compete !
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 11:30
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Will Air Atlanta be operatingb a couple certain silver 747s with nice IFE and seats that are currently sitting in Mohave?
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Old 4th Sep 2002, 11:30
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Lightbulb

This Air Atlanta operation wouldn't have anything to do with flights to the Carribean would it, for a new operator??

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Old 4th Sep 2002, 13:53
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The flights will be operated and marketed as Air Atlanta Europe - the aircraft is intended to operate in full Air Atlanta colours, and not leased to any other carrier !

Just thought I would show you the official company statement on this matter :

Air Atlanta Europe Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Air Atlanta Icelandic, has applied to the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority for an Air Operator’s Certificate to enable it to operate flights under its own flight number from the United Kingdom to destinations outside of the European Union.

Hafthor Hafsteinsson, President and CEO, Air Atlanta Icelandic, said, “We have been leasing our aircraft to airlines operating into and out of the United Kingdom for more than 15 years. We have occasionally operated flights under our own flight number but the rules only allow us to do this within the European Union. We have now been asked by our customers to fly to destinations outside of the EU and to take up this opportunity we must have a UK AOC.”

It is intended to transfer a Boeing 767-200 aircraft from the Icelandic to the UK register this winter and offer the aircraft on the charter and leasing market. Consideration of further transfers will be made with regard to market conditions in Spring 2003.

Air Atlanta has leased aircraft to airlines operating into and out of the United Kingdom since its inception in 1986. It currently operates Boeing 747 and 767 aircraft out of Gatwick and Manchester airports and has a maintenance and workshop facility at London Manston. Further aircraft are currently flying for airlines in France, Spain, the Caribbean, Argentina and Nigeria.
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Old 5th Sep 2002, 10:04
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Well good luck to Air Atlanta if they are to become a UK airline. So long as they are playing by the same rules (ftl, employment law) as everyone else, they are welcome.

I wonder how the other UK airlines who have "saved money" over the past few years by hiving off their flights to Atlanta feel about this. What they have done is introduce a competitor to their marketplace.
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Old 5th Sep 2002, 11:07
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How about flight crew licence? do they have to be UK/JAR licence holder?

Flight crew has to be UK/JAR licence holder?
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Old 5th Sep 2002, 21:51
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You must be losing your touch, 411a. Nobody has risen to your bait about their maintenance department. Would you like to elaborate?
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Old 6th Sep 2002, 03:30
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Quite right ShotOne, I guess many have forgotten October 1998...and the UK CAA grounding...
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Old 6th Sep 2002, 09:54
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And the grounding was raised as soon as the CAA had checked the accusations and found them groundless.
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Old 6th Sep 2002, 18:02
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A maintenance and workshop facility at London Manston.

Do they mean the shed surrounded by what appears to be a junk yard?
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