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GolfWhiskyKilo
24th Sep 2023, 15:24
Hi everyone,

Having recently renewed my PPL and SEP Iím very keen on the idea of working towards an FI rating.

Iím likely too long in the tooth and too old to be desirable to airline sponsored schemes but think FI alongside my ďday jobĒ would not only be a great way to give my flying a purpose, but be something to work towards as a retirement job.

I appreciate there are various reasons people get into instructing, as career instructors or to build hours to then move on to the airlines etc.

Iíd really appreciate advice/direction on how best to do this in the UK, alongside working full time.

Currently have 110hrs and a Class 2 medical, based in the North East.

thank you
GWK

MrAverage
25th Sep 2023, 08:03
CPL or ATPL exams.

GolfWhiskyKilo
25th Sep 2023, 10:26
So, do those over the next couple of years while building hours?

I assume if I just wanted to FI then sticking at PPL is fine, no need to do CPL etc.

Fl1ingfrog
25th Sep 2023, 15:00
What do you need to be a flight instructor UK?
Flight Instructor Course Minimum requirements (FI)

Hold a valid pilots licence, which includes a valid Single Engine Piston (Land) rating.
Meet the knowledge requirements for the grant of a EASA CPL (A). note: the exam passes are time limited.
Have at least a CPL (A) or have completed at least 200 hours of flight time of which 150 hours as Pilot-in-Command if holding a PPL (A): Note: there is a minimum PIC flying cross country experience including a 300nm x/country. The CPL knowledge only requires having passed the CPL exams. (There is no requirements to have completed the flying for a CPL).
Pass the FI skill test.

There is further detail to consider as part of the flying experience and the flight instructor schools normally detail this for you. The best advice, in my opinion, is to have most if not all of the required flying experience before sitting the exams.

There is not a specific requirement to have passed the CPL exams. Note: without the CPL exams passed you will be limited to what you can teach such as NO PPL course training.

Jhieminga
25th Sep 2023, 15:20
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.

GolfWhiskyKilo
25th Sep 2023, 15:22
Thank you. I was thinking similar. Get the hours and experience up to where it needs to be first, incorporating a night rating and IR(R) within that.

GWK

GolfWhiskyKilo
25th Sep 2023, 15:23
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.

All noted, thank you!

Big Pistons Forever
25th Sep 2023, 17:51
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.

My personal experience teaching the Instructor Rating is that even most low time CPLís do not have a sufficiently high level of personal flying skills to properly demonstrate most maneuvers. The first 5 (or more) hours of dual is fixing this deficit and then we can actually start the instructor course.

My advice is for all the personal flying you do prior to your course, be very hard on yourself. 50 ft too high, fix it. 2 knots too fast on approach, fix it, Ball 1/4 out of the cage on climb out fix it. Accurate flying is a choice, choose to be better with every flight. I guarantee you this will be immediately noticed and appreciated by you instructor

GolfWhiskyKilo
25th Sep 2023, 18:16
Thank you and duly noted.

As I said, I want to give my flying an objective. Flying ďlocalĒ flights will soon have me lose interest which is why I stopped flying.

This route will give me something to work towards (while all the while improving my skills).

Thank you, again.

Fl1ingfrog
25th Sep 2023, 19:03
incorporating a night rating and IR(R) within that.

​​​​​​​Excellent.

rudestuff
26th Sep 2023, 07:00
How old is 'long in the tooth' ? You should definitely consider IRR, CBIR and CPL - you'll need 150 hours PIC as a PPL FI but only 100 hours as a CPL, so it shouldn't cost you much more.

GolfWhiskyKilo
26th Sep 2023, 07:49
How old is 'long in the tooth' ? You should definitely consider IRR, CBIR and CPL - you'll need 150 hours PIC as a PPL FI but only 100 hours as a CPL, so it shouldn't cost you much more.

Very almost 40. And noted re: the CPL suggestion. I suppose that opens up other options in the future too. I wasnít aware of the CBIR so thank you for that.

I didnít really think of CPL as an option, of course the medical requirements are higher but I donít know of any reason why that would be an issue.

Thank you.

Whopity
27th Sep 2023, 09:27
Something to be aware of is that to become a FI with a PPL you need 300 hours and with a CPL only 200 so its cheaper to go the CPL route if you are starting from scratch. As stated the CPL exams have a 3 year time limit for obtaining a CPL, but not for becoming a FI so get the CPL then do an FI course.

GolfWhiskyKilo
27th Sep 2023, 13:57
Something to be aware of is that to become a FI with a PPL you need 300 hours and with a CPL only 200 so its cheaper to go the CPL route if you are starting from scratch. As stated the CPL exams have a 3 year time limit for obtaining a CPL, but not for becoming a FI so get the CPL then do an FI course.

Isnít it 200hrs with 150 PIC as above?

And if I only ever want to instruct then CPL with Class 1 etc may be overkillÖand could cost more.

BEagle
27th Sep 2023, 16:22
Whopity, surely the 300hr TT is for a CRI applicant as stated in FCL.915.CRI(b)(1)? Whereas a PPL holding FI applicant needs to have completed at least 200 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs, of which 150 hours as PIC as stated in FCL.915.FI(b)(2)(ii)?

GolfWhiskyKilo
27th Sep 2023, 17:12
Whopity, surely the 300hr TT is for a CRI applicant as stated in FCL.915.CRI(b)(1)? Whereas a PPL holding FI applicant needs to have completed at least 200 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs, of which 150 hours as PIC as stated in FCL.915.FI(b)(2)(ii)?

That was my understanding too.

Next step for me is some meaningful hours building, with the criteria in mind (and quality of flying also in mind).

rudestuff
27th Sep 2023, 20:33
Very almost 40. And noted re: the CPL suggestion. I suppose that opens up other options in the future too. I wasnít aware of the CBIR so thank you for that.

I didnít really think of CPL as an option, of course the medical requirements are higher but I donít know of any reason why that would be an issue.

Thank you.
...so 30s then. Hardly old! Are you simply not interested in an airline job? You would have a 20+ year flying career ahead of you. Go and get a class one initial and decide from there. You're in an enviable position being about £25k away from a fATPL during a time of unprecedented hiring.

GolfWhiskyKilo
27th Sep 2023, 22:26
...so 30s then. Hardly old! Are you simply not interested in an airline job? You would have a 20+ year flying career ahead of you. Go and get a class one initial and decide from there. You're in an enviable position being about £25k away from a fATPL during a time of unprecedented hiring.

Oh Iím very interested! Do you think itís doable within 25k? Class 1, hours building, CPL/IR etc?

25k makes it tempting!

The recent BA thing has got me interested again, but 18+ months without an income would be very hard to swallow and I would 100% get a lot from instructing.

Are you saying I should bite the bullet?!

Whopity
28th Sep 2023, 20:14
Appologies on the numbers, I've been doing this too long and mixing up the various requirements. In my experience, those who go from PPL to FI take around 300 hours. It is indeed 150 hrs PIC post PPL wheras with a CPL the requirement is only 100 hours PIC to obtain a CPL; a reduction of 50 hours. As the CPL course is only 25 hours it is a false economy not to do the CPL, especially as the exams run out after 3 years.

rudestuff
29th Sep 2023, 07:18
Oh Iím very interested! Do you think itís doable within 25k? Class 1, hours building, CPL/IR etc?

25k makes it tempting!

The recent BA thing has got me interested again, but 18+ months without an income would be very hard to swallow and I would 100% get a lot from instructing.

Are you saying I should bite the bullet?!
If you want to be a pilot, then yes. You've probably done most of the hour building, next step would be a class one and the ATPLs. A CBIR is 25 dual and 15 PIC, you'll need about 10 hours multi and a CPL is 15 hours.
The flight training plus hour building would cost around £20k (based on 180 solo, 240 dual, 450 multi - you can get cheaper. ) Add in medical, a distance learning course and ATPL exams and it pushes it closer to £25k.

GolfWhiskyKilo
29th Sep 2023, 14:35
Next challenge will be identifying a school close enough to do this part time while working, to the North East.

Do any of you far more knowledgeable people have any suggestions?!

thanks,
GWK

beamer
29th Sep 2023, 19:33
I have been thinking about doing an FI and I’m in my late sixties……a step too far ?

Michael S
30th Sep 2023, 09:41
I have been thinking about doing an FI and Iím in my late sixtiesÖÖa step too far ?
Depends on your experience, but I think there are more exciting ways of having a heart attack. ;)

fly_webbv2
1st Oct 2023, 08:30
Iím 58, PPL over 600 hours TT. Lapsed IMC. Last year I undertook the FI course at Andrewsfield, Essex. Best course Iíve taken, most useful, practical flying I highly recommend taking the FI. Schools need good instructors but there is no currency for LAPL only, so if you are serious about FI you need the CPL theory exams. I also work, so my study time is limited to after work and weekends. The CPL TK is a long course you need to put in the hours ,think two hours/ day for 12 months at least. I chose CAPT, similar course material to the bigger ATOís, but all on line and best value out there. There are other providers. When I took my assessment flight I also renewed my CRI. As others have said you need 200 minimum, before starting the course so Iíd definitely hours build ( buy a share and enjoy your flying) get to know a school nearby, on track in wellsbourne have a good reputation and they are a good source of information. As is Irv Lee. As others have said donít accept anything less than excellent flying, height, heading, speed. The FI course demands toy fly accurately, good luck and enjoy every minute

GolfWhiskyKilo
1st Oct 2023, 09:52
Iím 58, PPL over 600 hours TT. Lapsed IMC. Last year I undertook the FI course at Andrewsfield, Essex. Best course Iíve taken, most useful, practical flying I highly recommend taking the FI. Schools need good instructors but there is no currency for LAPL only, so if you are serious about FI you need the CPL theory exams. I also work, so my study time is limited to after work and weekends. The CPL TK is a long course you need to put in the hours ,think two hours/ day for 12 months at least. I chose CAPT, similar course material to the bigger ATOís, but all on line and best value out there. There are other providers. When I took my assessment flight I also renewed my CRI. As others have said you need 200 minimum, before starting the course so Iíd definitely hours build ( buy a share and enjoy your flying) get to know a school nearby, on track in wellsbourne have a good reputation and they are a good source of information. As is Irv Lee. As others have said donít accept anything less than excellent flying, height, heading, speed. The FI course demands toy fly accurately, good luck and enjoy every minute

Thank you.

Iím not in any rush, itís a long term aim, so all noted.

A share would be good, but slim pickings in the North East currently. Iíll keep my eyes peeled for that as an option too.

GWK

CyclicRick
5th Oct 2023, 20:30
Reading this thread with interest indeed. I’m thinking of doing the same thing myself. I’m an ATPL(H) IR holder with just shy of 10k hours and also a PPL A holder about three years away from retirement. I presume/hope all that will count towards the requirements. Anyone have any experience with training establishments up in Scotland?

Prob30Tempo TSRA
22nd Oct 2023, 21:33
Is PPL instruction still really badly paid ? i was getting £14 an hour in 2002..

Thise above bearing in mind " as a retirement plan ", the weather makes the income very uncertain obv especially in winter .

Also bear in mind , in an ideal world , all your students would be keen enthusiastic folk doing full PPLs so you get a variety of flying , in my experience 60-70 % of what i ended up doing was trial lessons or red letter days or similar and after a few hundred of those it gets dull quickly

Mickey Kaye
23rd Oct 2023, 12:05
I know numerous FI without CPL TK who work either full-time time or part-time time. Admittedly they're are all CRI's as well All of them do little LAPL instruction offering microlight, Aeros, URPT, SSEA, SEP, TMG, Tailwheel, GR. One is even an FE. I'd do the FI rating first and then if the work doesn't come do the CPL TK.

Anodyne
22nd Nov 2023, 20:03
What's the current UK market like for instructors? Would a new (or recently renewed) PPL instructor get snapped up, or are there experienced people twiddling their thumbs due to the lack of students?

TheOddOne
23rd Nov 2023, 10:03
Very short of instructors in the South-West.
TOO