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Mach Jump
15th Sep 2023, 23:49
In recent years, whenever I do a flight test, I get a demand from Licensing for copies of my Licence, and Examiner Authority, sometimes when they have been issued by them only a few weeks previously.

If I don't respond immediately, to these demands, they inform the candidate that their licence/rating issue is being delayed because the Examiner has not sent the required documents.

I'm getting really fed up with this, and suspect that the CAA has, once again, accidentally deleted all of our licensing records, and they are covering up for their own incompetence by libelling the examiners.

Does this happen to anyone else, or is it just me?

MJ:ok:

MrAverage
16th Sep 2023, 09:33
From memory, at least 5 times in the past 3 years.

rudestuff
16th Sep 2023, 10:07
Please send us a copy of your licence. What, the licence that YOU issued me? I never understood that either...

Mach Jump
16th Sep 2023, 12:29
If only they were so polite! :yuk: 'We require a copy of your Licence...' is their usual phrasing.

Makes you wonder what's the point of sending in revalidation/renewal paperwork, if they either can't find it, or, more likely, can't be bothered looking. :ugh:

Fl1ingfrog
16th Sep 2023, 14:54
Makes you wonder what's the point of sending in revalidation/renewal paperwork, if they either can't find it, or, more likely, can't be bothered looking.

When the UKCAA decided to micro manage every detail of licence and rating issue/renewal they didn't ever have the funds or themselves the expertise to do so. Boxes upon Boxes of renewal forms were filled and then 'stored in the basement'. Nowadays this may only serve equally as a metaphor. Now your documents are lost somewhere only as bytes miss filed and hidden deep in the computer. Only a limited number - well none really - will have the skills to recover the data.

The CAA answer to this is to demand that we repeatedly send them the same scanned copies over and over again and for every purpose; cheaper than calling the consultants in.

Mach Jump
16th Sep 2023, 17:12
I've given them my bank details, and told them I won't be sending any more extraneous documents unless they have paid £60 per copy into my account first.

MJ:ok:

enzino
16th Sep 2023, 17:43
I have moved my EASA license across three different NAA's and all three of them required a copy of the existing license issued by them for every revalidation or renewal. It's not just the UK CAA.

Mach Jump
16th Sep 2023, 18:38
I have moved my EASA license across three different NAA's and all three of them required a copy of the existing license issued by them for every revalidation or renewal. It's not just the UK CAA.

I wouldn't mind so much it it were an established rule that, each time you revalidate something, you have to send in a copy of your newly signed Licence, with the 1157, but there is no such rule.

MJ:ok:

Manual Reversion
17th Sep 2023, 21:10
Had that last week….girl in CAA was quite put out when I asked what was the point of sending 1157’s in. I see they now have a pre screening department to check docs before the rating issue clerks get onto it. They still want to check the examiners lpc date as the admin is so gash.

HeliAl
18th Sep 2023, 16:45
Even when I provide copies of my Licence and certificates to the candidates to down load on their applications, the authority still ask for them again.
They only down load the initial application and don’t look at the complete bundle.
6 times this year so far!!!

Mach Jump
18th Sep 2023, 18:32
I suggest that we all tell them that we are no longer prepared to do their work for them free of charge. If one of us lost his/her Licence, and asked the CAA for a copy, first they would require a whacking fee in advance, next it would take forever, and when you finally got it, half your ratings would be missing, or put on the back.

£60 a copy seems reasonable to me.

MJ:ok:

Whopity
22nd Sep 2023, 23:22
In the good old days when they used microfische they had a copy of everyting you had sent them and everything they had sent you, all in one place! And then we had computers!

Mach Jump
5th Oct 2023, 22:24
Successful candidate, who applied for his licence, was just told that his licence would not be issued until I sent them a copy of my licence.

This is a problem entirely of their own making.

They have introduced an internal requirement for the examiner's class rating to be confirmed valid on the date of the test, before the licence can be issued.

Unfortunately, they are unable, due to their own incompetence, and shambolic record keeping, to comply with their own requirement, so they yank our strings, and expect us to dance to their tune. And if we don't, they hold the candidate's licence issue to ransom.

We send in 1157 forms, and register our revals on the 'portal', and yet they are still unable to find them, or, more likely, can't be bothered looking.

I'm sick of being treated with contempt, and won't be renewing my examiner authority when it runs out.


MJ:ok::ugh:

Mach Jump
23rd Oct 2023, 20:12
A surprise update.

Had a long chat with a sound chap in Licensing Policy the other day, and, although I don't want to give his name, or exactly what he said, my impression is that demands for licence copies will cease.

Time will tell.

MJ:ok:

Ps. Whopity, it seems that all the microfiche records are still there, but no one knows how to access them, and so they just say that they've lost them.:rolleyes:

rudestuff
24th Oct 2023, 09:52
Successful candidate, who applied for his licence, was just told that his licence would not be issued until I sent them a copy of my licence.

This is a problem entirely of their own making.

They have introduced an internal requirement for the examiner's class rating to be confirmed valid on the date of the test, before the licence can be issued.

Unfortunately, they are unable, due to their own incompetence, and shambolic record keeping, to comply with their own requirement, so they yank our strings, and expect us to dance to their tune. And if we don't, they hold the candidate's licence issue to ransom.

We send in 1157 forms, and register our revals on the 'portal', and yet they are still unable to find them, or, more likely, can't be bothered looking.

I'm sick of being treated with contempt, and won't be renewing my examiner authority when it runs out.


MJ:ok::ugh:
Maybe just send them a bill for £45 every time you have to send them a copy of something they issued you? Play them at their own game.

Mach Jump
24th Oct 2023, 17:46
Maybe just send them a bill for £45 every time you have to send them a copy of something they issued you? Play them at their own game.

I already tried that. I said that I was unable to proceed with their demand, as the appropriate fee (£60) had not yet been deposited in my bank account.

They just ignored it of course, and continued to withhold the candidate's licence issue.

They really only have one job. That is to issue licences, but they really don't care a hoot if they do or not, as they already have our money, and we have no alternative.

If we could get licences anywhere else, they would have gone out of business years ago!


MJ:ok:

Mach Jump
31st Oct 2023, 14:37
I think that whole movie was based on the relationship we all have with the CAA. That final scene just gives us a glimpse of the secrecy and incompetence we are up against.

MJ:ok:

Whopity
31st Oct 2023, 15:53
Originally the CAA recorded everything on a Cardex system. This was then changed to a Microfische system with both systems running in parallel in an efficient manner. At some point the CAA decided to go electronic and scanned all the Microfische data into PDF format. The Govt required the introduction of ERM, Electronic Record Management so vast ammounts of data was stored in pdf format. In theory a good search engine would produce the answers quickly and efficiently however; the system was only as good as the tagging! We then had ECDDS the El Crappo Data Dumping System.

TheOddOne
1st Nov 2023, 06:01
During one of the many iterations of my licencing over the decades I was sent the microfiche with all my data up to that point on it. Of course I can't read it, not having a microfiche reader, however...

In 1982 I went for my (then) initial issue Class 3 medical. At that time, the CAA ran a medical centre at Heathrow, where I was working. I passed the Class 3 but enquired about a Class 1. I was told that my short sightedness was JUST outside the limits but they could exchange more experience for my eyesight in due course. Well, I had 3 hours at the time so not yet!
Now, I also failed the Ishihara colour blindness test. The doctor said 'well, what I'll do is the lantern test', which we duly did and I passed it. Fast forward 20 years and I finally got to needing an initial issue Class 1. I asked to take the eyesight test first in case I failed it. During the intervening years, the short sight correction requirements had changed and I easily passed that but still failed the Ishihara. The optician whipped out a microfiche, stuck it in the enormous reader on his desk and said 'ah, yes Heathrow 1982 lantern test passed. Tick. Next!'
The nub of this story is that at some stage in the past, the CAA had excellent record keeping, to my considerable benefit. Like so much in our lives today, it would take willpower, not money to get it all back again.
TOO