A380 Birmingham(UK) to Dubai with 618 Passengers August 07 2023

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Hi!

I found this article interesting, and I hope you all do also.

It is a tweet from an Emirates Captain about his A380 Birmingham(UK) to Dubai with 618 Passengers August 07 2023.

He includes a photo of part of his Instrument Panel:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/646x806/a380_screen_c52a5d97478ae15bc5b3c324f4dc3d5c5c628d58.jpg

I understand most of the weights, but what is CI ? It looks like it is some kind of passenger weight factor.

Also, I don't remember ever seeing a photo of an in-service aircraft dashboard before. Do airlines have policies about such things? ( I deleted the Captain's name from his post).

Also, I wonder if 618 passengers on board is some kind of record for a UK flight?? (Presumably, it was single class?).

I hope you all find this diverting!!

IB

[rkenyon]

It's a 2 class A380 :-

https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-388-2cl

Although that says it's 615 passengers... so maybe they had 3 interlopers!

[3Greens]

CI = cost index.
just a way of calculating the inflight speeds basically depending on what the aim of the flight is.
Min cost, min fuel, min time etc.
it’s also not an inflight dashboard, itsva screen shot of the FMS

[AerocatS2A]

It's a 2 class A380 :-

https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-388-2cl

Although that says it's 615 passengers... so maybe they had 3 interlopers!
Or, more likely, infants.

[Herod]

3Greens beat me to it. Cost Index.

[Consol]

Also, I don't remember ever seeing a photo of an in-service aircraft dashboard before. Do airlines have policies about such things? ( I deleted the Captain's name from his post).
IB

Probably better not to name the flight, airline and date then......

[Anilv]

618 pax could be 615 + 3 infants. Also some airlines allow ID (staff) pax on jumpseats.

Anilv

[oceancrosser]

Lovely time of the year to visit Dubai…

[Magplug]

Filling up aeroplanes (especially big ones) does not equal profit. It simply means the tickets are so cheap that all the seats are sold when demand at that price is outstripping the supply. Buying such a huge fleet of the world's biggest aircraft was a vanity project like so many other vanity projects in a country that is awash with money. We know they are cut-throat employers in a down-turn but have Emirates ever published their company accounts?

[rkenyon]

Filling up aeroplanes (especially big ones) does not equal profit. It simply means the tickets are so cheap that all the seats are sold when demand at that price is outstripping the supply. Buying such a huge fleet of the world's biggest aircraft was a vanity project like so many other vanity projects in a country that is awash with money. We know they are cut-throat employers in a down-turn but have Emirates ever published their company accounts?

I take it you've not seen the Emirates business class prices from the likes of BHX/MAN? Cheapest return to DXB > £3k.

A simple search would have turned up the Emirates accounts :-

https://www.emirates.com/uk/english/about-us/financial-transparency/annual-reports/

[stoatsbrother]

The thread starter’s name seems particularly appropriate…

[OldLurker]

Buying such a huge fleet of the world's biggest aircraft was a vanity project like so many other vanity projects in a country that is awash with money.I’m sure you’re right about Emirates – I’m not as close to the subject as you are – but some other airlines did buy A380s so as to get more passengers per slot into and out of slot-constrained airports.

[pax britanica]

And of course one mustnt over look the fact that it really is such a nice plane to fly on for the pax, quiet, stable , good cabin conditioning . I hope they all end up back in service as I dont like the triple or the 787 but have yet to try the A350

PB

[kcockayne]

A350 in Club is very nice (BAW), but nothing comes anywhere near to matching the A380 ! , of which, my only experiences are UAE.

[SWBKCB]

Also, I wonder if 618 passengers on board is some kind of record for a UK flight?? (Presumably, it was single class?).

Didn't Corsair have a B.744 they could configure for 600+ seat back in the day? Used for Champions League Finals and the like?

[Chesty Morgan]

I take it you've not seen the Emirates business class prices from the likes of BHX/MAN? Cheapest return to DXB > £3k.

A simple search would have turned up the Emirates accounts :-

https://www.emirates.com/uk/english/about-us/financial-transparency/annual-reports/
How many business class seats on a 2 claas A380?

[Herod]

How many? I suspect a lot. I've not been upstairs, being an economy class pensioner, but it is a big staircase. I have to agree about the comfort in economy, providing you snaffle an aisle seat.

[Ivor_Bigunn]

I found a lot of very vague information online about A380 passenger capacity. All seem to agree that the plane is certified for 840 passengers in one Class (Yikes!) , But it seems unlikely that any airline ever flew like this.

Emirates it seems have some 2-class planes with a capacity of 615 passengers. I wonder if the 618 shown on this flight includes 3 pilots???

Article from Wikipedia, maybe out-of-date:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/993x588/a380_seating_064edbc3de3aed4a34a2b7073f3a4c1567488ef7.jpg
Regards

IB

[tdracer]

The 747 was certified to carry a maximum of 605 passengers in a single class configuration (-300/400/-8).
I believe 565 is the greatest number that was ever used in service, but I stand to be corrected.

[Lazyload]

Not a scheduled service but operation Solomon. 1088 pax on a 747. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Solomon

[Big Pistons Forever]

I was told by a friend that that the airline he worked for looked at the A380 but passed because of the lack of belly cargo capacity. On some flights the airlines existing 777 belly cargo covered the cost of the flight. The pax fares were pure profit

[tdracer]

Not a scheduled service but operation Solomon. 1088 pax on a 747. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Solomon

I rather doubt that was operated in a 'certified' (or even certifiable) configuration...

[Mr Mac]

A380 has always been very popular with passengers and indeed myself. Long term user with EK/LH/SIN and enjoy flying it on all these carriers. I have not tried BA or Korean but maybe on BA to Joeburg with them next spring, but overall excellent A/C for passengers, but maybe not for the accountants.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[rog747]

I think that 618 Pax could well be a UK record for the most number of Passengers carried on a Scheduled Commercial flight from the UK.
(likely 615 + 3 Infants, or Staff on Jump Seats)

I do appreciate this is a standard EK 2-Class A380 config, so this load may have already happened, but just not recorded by the Skipper as such as seen here.

I have never heard of anything else coming close apart from the Corsair 747-300 Charters in the past, which IIRC held 587.

At Virgin Atlantic, 747-123 G-VMIA regularly lifted off from LGW to MIA, or to MCO with 488 Pax, + any amount of Infants, plus up to 4 Staff on the Jump seats.
So, with the Crew, she held well over 500 at a time.

[Gordomac]

Awesome. And as a co-jo in Viscount 806x's outa Leeds, I thought I was one of the Big Boys.

[rog747]

Awesome. And as a co-jo in Viscount 806x's outa Leeds, I thought I was one of the Big Boys.

LOL - quite, on our BMA Viscounts out of LHR we thought we were rocking it with a full load of 73 on board (74 with a 'staff-ie' on the flight deck)

Every SAT and SUN morning - LPL MME IOM BHX LBA - 5 x VC8's all full (lots of Long Haul interliners arriving in early at LHR)

[Magplug]

The major financial issue with the A380 for airlines is the lack of cargo capacity. It carries so many passengers that when all their baggage is loaded there is no remaining physical space in the hold for any cargo. Typically the B744 when carrying 340 passenger on a 6 or 7 hour flight could lift between 15-20 tonnes of freight.

[chevvron]

LOL - quite, on our BMA Viscounts out of LHR we thought we were rocking it with a full load of 73 on board (74 with a 'staff-ie' on the flight deck)

Every SAT and SUN morning - LPL MME IOM BHX LBA - 5 x VC8's all full (lots of Long Haul interliners arriving in early at LHR)
In the '80s, I did Tangier - Gib in the Viscount once or twice and each time, when all the passenger seats were full, the CC would usher one or more if their offspring (aged about 8 - 10) to squeeze in front of their parents and stand there for takeoff and landing.
Once stood all the way from Inverness to Sumburgh in a Viscount too but that was because there was no jump seat installed.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Ivor - there would have been 2 pilots on that flight.

Here is my personal best out of Copenhagen a few years back. One of the first 2 class 380 flights.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_6597_4d66b4b072993f6cad0a173a6ee4a5e2f85578c2.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_6598_79a6ccef5c3d1512aba61b4073bd862a12d9878d.jpeg

[Andy_S]

The major financial issue with the A380 for airlines is the lack of cargo capacity. It carries so many passengers that when all their baggage is loaded there is no remaining physical space in the hold for any cargo.

Isn't the curvature of the hull also a constraint? I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's not optimal for airfreight containers.

[atakacs]

The major financial issue with the A380 for airlines is the lack of cargo capacity. It carries so many passengers that when all their baggage is loaded there is no remaining physical space in the hold for any cargo. Typically the B744 when carrying 340 passenger on a 6 or 7 hour flight could lift between 15-20 tonnes of freight.
Is that the reason LH still flies both ?

[procede]

Isn't the curvature of the hull also a constraint? I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's not optimal for airfreight containers.
The issues are the large center wing box (between the front and rear spar) and the sloping empenage, where containers do no fit.

[Dutch Jensen]

What I find interesting is the fact that on the first flight the final reserve fuel is 28 min, the other 27 minutes…

or is the 5.0T at the end 30minutes?. (As a boeing guy 👨🏻‍✈️ I am used to number 30 min behind the finalreserve)

[oceancrosser]

What I find interesting is the fact that on the first flight the final reserve fuel is 28 min, the other 27 minutes…

or is the 5.0T at the end 30minutes?. (As a boeing guy 👨🏻‍✈️ I am used to number 30 min behind the finalreserve)

It is whatever the aviation regulator in Dubai requires. Conveniently the head of the regulator is also chairman of Emirates. So there is little friction… makes things so easy… :hmm:

[Check Airman]

Pardon my ignorance, but what’s the fuss? Isn’t the plane meant to carry something like 800 people?

[UV]

Pardon my ignorance, but what’s the fuss? Isn’t the plane meant to carry something like 800 people?

I have flown in the A380 quite a lot, usually with Emirates.

The first time was in Economy. It was so spacious that there was no need to fly Business.

Last year I noticed that they had converted the front upper deck, where First Class used to be, into Economy. I thought I would give it a try as the seating was just 2 abreast on the window side. It was bloody awful.

I then realised that they had removed the 14 First Class seats and replaced them with no less than 91 (yes 91) economy seats. It was like Ryanair.

The only good thing was that they had left the First class toilets alone. It was far more comfortable to sit in there than in my allocated cramped seat!

God knows what the rest of economy is like nowadays. Emirates are obviously trying to cram in as many as possible.

So for me it’s back to business with its own bar and spacious seats.

[rkenyon]

I then realised that they had removed the 14 First Class seats and replaced them with no less than 91 (yes 91) economy seats. It was like Ryanair.

The only good thing was that they had left the First class toilets alone. It was far more comfortable to sit in there than in my allocated cramped seat!


It's actually 72 seats, not 91. And the toilets are nothing like the F class version.

I'm 6'2", and I've sat in the 2 seats on the upper deck. Leg room was fine - to compare to Ryanair is laughable.

[UV]

I then realised that they had removed the 14 First Class seats and replaced them with no less than 91 (yes 91) economy seats.

.

It's actually 72 seats, not 91..

I actually flew back to the UK this morning on two different Emirates A380’s. One had a first class cabin but the second one did not.

I consulted the purser about the actual number of economy seats in the previous first class cabin and the figure was 120. The purser told me that they had also extended these economy seats into part of the business class section and reduced the number of business class seats by about 20 or so.

Emirates have been modifying their A380’s so it depends on which individual aircraft you are talking about. They are not all the same.

Clearly Emirates are cramming in as many economy passengers as they can.

See the plan here on Seat-guru https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Em..._Two_Class.php (https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Emirates_Airlines/Emirates_Airlines_Airbus_A380_Two_Class.php).

[atakacs]

Are you saying that Emirates have multiple seating arrangements of their two class 380?

[UV]

Yes, according to the Purser I spoke to this morning.

[Lord Bracken]

Seems to just be one version of the two class, 58J 557M.

https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-388-2cl

Perhaps the Purser was thinking of the four class (one version) or three class (five versions).

[megan]

Emirates have four different seating arrangements.Are you saying that Emirates have multiple seating arrangements of their two class 380Only one set up for the two class.

https://www.emirates.com/au/english/experience/seating-charts/?aircraft=388hjy-upper-deck

[rkenyon]

Are you saying that Emirates have multiple seating arrangements of their two class 380?

No they don't.

Yes, according to the Purser I spoke to this morning.

The purser was wrong.

There are 120 Y seats on the 2 class A380. 72 in the normal F class section, and 48 at the front of J class section.

https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-388-2cl

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Well, it seems like the numbers check out. As rog747 and others have pointed out, Emirates have several 2-class A380's with 615 passenger seats.

So you fill every single one, including every Business Class seat, and then add 3 infants w/o seats, or 3 non-operational staff on jump seats, to reach 618.

So I guess this number of passengers might have been equaled before in a flight to/from the UK.

But Capn Rex Havoc (great Name!!) in Post #29 shows us that he flew a similar A380 with 616 passengers from Copenhagen in 2015! So it seems numbers very, very close to 618 passengers must happen quite frequently.

But since it does not appear that anyone operates 1-class A380's, this may be highest in the world as well.

And, of course there is the Cabin Crew as well, maybe 30 persons ???, so the Total Souls On Board could be near 650.

I presume this what Captain Havoc is allowing for when he adds 26 by hand to his record, thus :

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1500/capt_havoc_a2de2b3e28300499ed6b46e4fb5a6b20b88e2bbe.jpeg


And now I wonder where the weight of the Cabin Crew and baggage is allowed for in the weight calculations ?



Also, I recall now that in about 1990 I returned from Seoul South Korea to Schiphol (AMS) on a B747 operated by KLM-Asia.

I queued up and checked in with my Economy Ticket, and was given seat assignment 1C !

Ha!

I was so excited. I was going to sitting up with the Pilots!! For some reason I had been upgraded to Business or First !

But, of course, when I got onboard the 747, the entire Main Deck was Economy, and I was sitting facing the front bulkhead (and I think the Electronics Room). I guess there was 400 passengers onboard maybe?

Well, I had extra leg room, but I remember that the flight was noisy and bumpy. My seat was in front of the point where the fuselage narrows.

I don't suppose KLM-Asia still exists ?

Rgds

IB

[212man]

And now I wonder where the weight of the Cabin Crew and baggage is allowed for in the weight calculations ?


They are in the Dry Operating Mass/Weight, which is part of the Zero Fuel Weight (ZFW) you can see

I don't suppose KLM-Asia still exists ?

As far as I know, it still exists. Created to allow flights to Taiwan

I was so excited. I was going to sitting up with the Pilots!! For some reason I had been upgraded to Business or First !

Last time I checked, 747 pilots sit on the top deck! Seats in Row 1 and 2 on the 747 have the dubious honour of being first at the scene of the accident - ahead of the pilots. Normally the pilots arrive first.......:E

[DaveReidUK]

I presume this what Captain Havoc is allowing for when he adds 26 by hand to his record

Allowance for the dogs of war, presumably.

[Andy_S]

But, of course, when I got onboard the 747, the entire Main Deck was Economy, and I was sitting facing the front bulkhead (and I think the Electronics Room). I guess there was 400 passengers onboard maybe?

Well, I had extra leg room, but I remember that the flight was noisy and bumpy. My seat was in front of the point where the fuselage narrows.

Many years ago now, but in the 1990s some Business Class seats on the main deck of the the KLM Asia 747s were redesignated as Economy. I assume that at some point the actual seats were replaced with standard economy class seats, but for a while you could actually have an Economy Class boarding pass but sit in a Business Class seat without technically being upgraded. If you were a top-tier Flying Dutchman member flying economy, you stood a good chance of getting one.