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Rick2023
26th Jul 2023, 08:20
News article on the bild.de about a Marabu 320 with significant engine fire damage. Pictures and article behind a paywall but well worth the few euros to view :sad:

English translation by the Googles:

These are images that the Condor sister airline Marabu would probably prefer to keep secret: During the flight from Malaga (Spain) to Munich last Tuesday, a spark plug came loose and emitted hot gas against the casing and cables.According to information from BILD, the engine fire warning light came on just five minutes after takeoff last Tuesday (July 17). The pilot considered making an emergency landing. However, the light then went off. The Airbus 320neo with the registration ES-MBA had already displayed several "spurious alerts" before, as stated by a Marabu pilot to BILD. These are false warnings, such as a screen flickering that lasts only a fraction of a second and then disappears.

This time, it was not a false alarm...

Nevertheless, the pilot continued the flight after the engine fire warning disappeared, according to an insider quoted by BILD. The flight from Spain to the Bavarian capital lasts 2.50 hours. Meanwhile, the loose spark plug was affecting the engine. An anonymous pilot told BILD, "It's like the boy who cried wolf. When false alarms are triggered too often, a real emergency won't be recognized."

According to BILD's information, neither the crew nor the passengers noticed anything about the defect. It was only when the engine was inspected on the ground that the shock occurred: heat damage had eaten into the casing and cables.

In response to a query from BILD, Marabu stated, "In one of the engines of the aircraft ES-MBA, a spark plug came loose on July 17, and hot gas leaked, leaving soot traces. The engine did not catch fire, but it was damaged. The engine is currently being repaired. This repair will be completed in August, partly due to longer delivery times for spare parts. Based on the current findings, there was no danger for either the passengers or the crew."

The anonymous pilot told BILD, "I see it differently; flight safety was disregarded here. This could have ended in a tragedy."

The airline spokeswoman contradicted and wrote, "The cockpit crew checked the aircraft according to the protocols provided for this case. This check revealed that all engine measurements were normal. Therefore, the flight to Munich was continued as planned."

Tone in management email gets harsher

Last Sunday, the management of Marabu addressed the fire internally via email. BILD has obtained the message. The tone is harsher: "Last week, during a flight from Malaga to Munich, we received an engine fire warning in our aircraft ES-MBA. The crew handled the situation as expected, and the aircraft landed in Munich without injuries or obvious damage to the aircraft.

Soot traces and melting points on the cables. The black marks are soot from burned aircraft fuel. "That doesn't happen just from hot air," said an insider to BILD.

In the past few days, inspections of engine number 2 were carried out. The hot air from the spark plug caused "damage to engine accessories." Additionally, various cables in the engine were severely damaged.

The management's goal is to get the aircraft back in service quickly. The insider told BILD, "It will take even longer until the aircraft can fly again."

oliver2002
26th Jul 2023, 13:36
The MBU crews are currently going thru a baptism of fire... the airline never really got off the ground and is operating with help from a ton of wetlease. Their own fleet is short of crew or grounded due to technical issues on their neos.

DaveReidUK
26th Jul 2023, 13:36
Did bild.de really manage to write a 500+ word article on an A320 engine incident without managing to mention once whether it was a LEAP or P&W GTF?

(appears to have been the latter)

Boeingdriver999
26th Jul 2023, 13:41
Do you think the average reader of a newspaper really cares which type engine it was? I think that it was on fire is the pertinent point being made here.

Plus the reg is given so as a professional; a quick Google will tell you the answer.

oliver2002
26th Jul 2023, 13:42
PW1127G, ex Indigo A32N: https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a320-6849.htm

pax britanica
26th Jul 2023, 13:50
Spark Plugs?? Are there a couple of R2800s hidden behind those new nacelles on the 320??,

DaveReidUK
26th Jul 2023, 14:46
Do you think the average reader of a newspaper really cares which type engine it was? I think that it was on fire is the pertinent point being made here.

Given that it appears to have been a departing igniter - sorry, spark plug - that failed to confine the gas flow to where it should be, I'd have thought that the engine manufacturer/type was of more than passing interest.

YMMV.

Less Hair
26th Jul 2023, 14:49
Bild is like The Sun. Tabloid. No engine types are needed for their readers.

Rick2023
26th Jul 2023, 14:56
Remember I just dumped the German into Google so I think we can tolerate a little phraseology error considering the source - both Google and the Bild!

skycruiser65
26th Jul 2023, 18:50
Appears to be some sort of "how deep can we crab into the ****"..
Marabu acts as wetlease of Condor, they instead had to engage them and others since they were asked to reduce their fleet during their bancruptcy scheme (like Chapter 11 in the US) receiving funds from the EU.

As repair is going on, Marabu is wetleasing another Airline "Nordica"....

skycruiser65
26th Jul 2023, 18:51
Check this:

tdracer
26th Jul 2023, 19:40
Given that it appears to have been a departing igniter - sorry, spark plug - that failed to confine the gas flow to where it should be, I'd have thought that the engine manufacturer/type was of more than passing interest.

YMMV.
DR - I see no reason you'd need to apologize for using the correct terminology - an igniter is an igniter - not a spark plug (my German is way too primitive to be able to determine if 'spark plug' is a translation error or sloppy journalism in the original).

Certainly not the first time an improperly secured igniter or borescope plug has come out and caused a problem. What I'm most curious about is why the overheat/fire warning went away - that's potentially a big problem.

Rick2023
26th Jul 2023, 20:46
Guys, guys, guys…

According to Google:
Spark plug is Zündkerze. Igniter is Zünder
Zünder is detonator. Zündkerze is Sparkplug.
And Zunder is Tinder!

Let’s not get lost in semantics here; the engine had a hole that let high temperature gas burn and melt parts of the engine for about two hours…

And you’re concerned the journalist breaking the story didn’t use the correct technical term? Have you ever heard the phrase missing the trees
for the forest?

I lose a little more faith in aviation every day.

DaveReidUK
27th Jul 2023, 06:56
And you’re concerned the journalist breaking the story didn’t use the correct technical term? Have you ever heard the phrase missing the trees
for the forest?

I think most people's concerns are rather more fundamental than that.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/412x400/bild2_5ead481cf6bd43862c993a0cf932a26021f3e5bb.jpg

Magplug
27th Jul 2023, 08:04
With an engine fire warning..... even one that came on for just a few seconds... I would have done the engine fire checklist or at a minimum had that engine throttled back to idle and turned back to base.

Consulting the company normally generates sub-optimum solutions! I once turned around on a US bound flight approaching Iceland having suffered a #4 hydraulic failure. With poor weather at destination the a/c would have requried a company expedition to an offline station to fix it. On return I was asked by operations 'Who authorised the diversion?' This is why airline managers hate pilots.

procede
27th Jul 2023, 08:40
It will take even longer until the aircraft can fly again

How can it take longer than (I am assuming) fixing the engine? If they swap the engine (assuming they can get a spare...), the aircraft could be flying within a day. Worst case it will take as long.

PW part shortage might even help them fixing the engine, as long as the parts with shortage are not damaged and there is enough manpower to swap components.

DaveReidUK
27th Jul 2023, 09:27
How can it take longer than (I am assuming) fixing the engine? If they swap the engine (assuming they can get a spare...), the aircraft could be flying within a day. Worst case it will take as long.

PW part shortage might even help them fixing the engine, as long as the parts with shortage are not damaged and there is enough manpower to swap components.

It's been on the ground at MUC for 10 days so far, reportedly awaiting spares. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cowl components that are the holdup, rather than just a spare engine.

HOVIS
27th Jul 2023, 09:36
How can it take longer than (I am assuming) fixing the engine? If they swap the engine (assuming they can get a spare...), the aircraft could be flying within a day. Worst case it will take as long.

PW part shortage might even help them fixing the engine, as long as the parts with shortage are not damaged and there is enough manpower to swap components.
Quite optimistic to get it flying in a day.
Is there a hangar available with cranes etc or is it a bootstrap job outside?
How quick can a team be assembled, airside passes verified, accommodation secured, transport?
What about post engine function checks and ground runs, power assured?
Be lucky to get it done in 3 days and that's without hitting any snags.

aeromech3
27th Jul 2023, 12:18
The tip of an ignitor plug would just sit inside the combustion zone, perhaps as little as 2mm, more and its tip would fast erode, too shallow a penetration = wet starts. Not knowing the P&W but the tertiary airflow around the combustion casing would be at HPC temperature, high enough to cause a fire sensor trip, but flames escaping the inner combustion zone I do doubt very much, as the airflow pattern is designed to keep the flame from touching the sides which in any case would have several rows of holes/scoops to allow the tertiary air to dilute the flame for introduction into the HPTV's.

kiwi grey
27th Jul 2023, 22:01
This incident was covered on The Aviation Herald "Incident: Marabu/Nordica A20N at Malaga and Munich on Jul 17th 2023, engine heat damage and puncture"
Here: Incident: Marabu/Nordica A20N at Malaga and Munich on Jul 17th 2023, engine heat damage and puncture (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=50c42088&opt=0)

Big Pistons Forever
28th Jul 2023, 01:17
I find it a bit hard to believe that there was no indication of an engine problem, except for a brief fire warning. That engine is pretty cooked !

aeromech3
28th Jul 2023, 03:16
From my experience circa 1979, and post incident the Captain of this flight stated, his first in over 30 years, the chances of a crew experiencing a real engine fire warning during their career would be very unlikely: post maintenance take off, multi, wide body, fire bell and lights, crew throttled back correct engine, warning stopped, fire test carried out satis, engine shut down and I think one bottle was fired as precautionary, returned to airport. Cause an HP air off take duct clamp failure inside the inter services area which was covered by fire wire sensor, but no fuel components in this area and no secondary damage.
Considering the earlier 2017 combustion chamber problems with this type of engine (and remembering the Manchester B737, JT8D, 22nd Aug 1985 cause) I am sure there should be a thorough investigation, even indeed, if it was just a loosening of the igniter over several flights!

should know better
28th Jul 2023, 06:32
I always thought igniters were wire locked in position.

aeromech3
28th Jul 2023, 11:51
Seem to recall the HT lead 'B' nut used to be, which effectively prevents the plug from rotating.

DaveReidUK
28th Jul 2023, 17:52
I'm pretty sure the igniters aren't wirelocked on the CFM56, so I'd be surprised if they are on the GTF.

Rick2023
29th Jul 2023, 12:08
The other igniters were wire locked…