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Aidan Monaghan
27th Jun 2023, 09:09
According to the FAA Flying Handbook, a 20 degree angle of bank qualifies as both a Shallow and Medium turn (0-20 & 20-45 respectively), yet Shallow turns require continuous aileron inputs and Medium turns require neutral aileron.

Which designation is correct (or most correct) - Shallow or Medium?

Genghis the Engineer
27th Jun 2023, 10:02
Doesn't really matter much, but personally I'd count it as shallow, medium around 30-45, and steep at 45+

Use of aileron is largely type specific, not bank angle specific. Don't read much into that - it's an attempt to standardise something that probably shouldn't be standardised.

G

Abbey Road
27th Jun 2023, 11:06
Which designation is correct (or most correct) - Shallow or Medium?

In the Royal Air Force, instructing at the ab-intio level on the Bulldog T1 aircraft, 30 angle of bank was considered 'medium', or perhaps the lower end of medium. I would certainly consider 20 AoB as shallow.

... yet Shallow turns require continuous aileron inputs and Medium turns require neutral aileron.
That sounds a bit odd to me! All turns are likely to require some variation of aileron inputs, however small, to maintain a particular angle of bank. However, you may find yourself thinking more about the elevator backpressure required to remain level in a turn, as the AoB increases - increasing AoB means increasing elevator backpressure.

But a bald statement that "Medium turns require neutral aileron" is nonsense, or a misunderstood over-simplification. 🫤

Aidan Monaghan
27th Jun 2023, 18:43
But a bald statement that "Medium turns require neutral aileron" is nonsense, or a misunderstood over-simplification. 🫤

FAA Flying Handbook (Page 3-12):

"Medium Turns ... The pilot neutralizes the aileron flight control pressure to maintain the bank."

70 Mustang
27th Jun 2023, 19:44
Aidan, Abbey Road's statement still stands.

perhaps you are relatively new to "the game"?

The FAA Handbook is a good starting point, and necessary for the written exams, and their test questions but nothing is that cut and dry in the actual execution of aviation.

awair
28th Jun 2023, 11:37
What speed?

ShyTorque
28th Jun 2023, 13:30
In the Royal Air Force, instructing at the ab-intio level on the Bulldog T1 aircraft, 30 angle of bank was considered 'medium', or perhaps the lower end of medium. I would certainly consider 20 AoB as shallow.

The way I flew, that was straight and level! :O

EXDAC
28th Jun 2023, 15:52
In all the aircraft I have flown the ailerons are a roll rate controller not a bank angle controller. Why would a descriptor of magnitude of bank angle be associated with aileron deflection? Is this an attempt to describe overbanking tendency?

Who even thinks about this except to answer silly test questions? Just apply the control pressures that are required to make the aicraft do what you want it to do.

ShyTorque
28th Jun 2023, 18:51
An aircraft that is very stable may still need a little aileron to hold it into a turn.

EXDAC
28th Jun 2023, 21:02
Is this an attempt to describe overbanking tendency? .

A search of the "Airplane Flying Handbook" for "overbanking" supports the notion that, for the purposes of this handbook, FAA considers steady state aileron deflection to be what defines the "steepness" of a turn.

A shallow bank turn is one that requires continuous aileron into turn
A medium bank turn is one that requires zero aileron deflection
and a steep turn is one that requires aileron out of turn.

The bank angle ranges associated with these definitions seem somewhat arbitrary.

A search for ""medium bank" finds several references that qualify "medium-bank" as "approximately 20 degrees" so that would seem to answer the OP's question.

Personally, I think shallow, medium, and steep depend on the aircraft, pilot experience and, perhaps most importantly, the comfort level of any passengers.