View Full Version : Jet2 at London Gatwick - will they move in permanently?
jetblast101
26th Mar 2023, 13:13
With Jet2 growing and expanding, is a permanent base at Gatwick the next natural step for them? Or is it already too crowded, too expensive or out of reach? The south could probably do with some trustworthy package holidays! Surely there's plenty of business to tap into there...
What are your thoughts? What do you know? When will it happen if at all?
Johnny F@rt Pants
26th Mar 2023, 15:04
What are your thoughts? What do you know? When will it happen if at all?
What are my thoughts - I think they will at some point, and I think they should.
What do I know - nothing other than it’s a potential opportunity.
When might it happen - sometime in the next few years.
tubby linton
26th Mar 2023, 18:39
The two problems I see are finding slots to support the operation and the cost of living for crew members in the Gatwick area is huge.Both will reduce the profit margin on operating flights.
excrab
26th Mar 2023, 20:43
The two problems I see are finding slots to support the operation and the cost of living for crew members in the Gatwick area is huge.Both will reduce the profit margin on operating flights.
If it’s a permanent base cost of living is a problem for the crew not the airline so makes no difference for the profits. Biggest problem is the slots…
Superpilot
27th Mar 2023, 08:18
LGW is an airport that can ruin an airlines reputation due to slots, staff shortages and high costs for passengers. At the start of 2022 delays of 90 minutes were normal. Some say that was the industry finding it's feet again. I don't think so.
tubby linton
27th Mar 2023, 18:28
If it’s a permanent base cost of living is a problem for the crew not the airline so makes no difference for the profits. Biggest problem is the slots… Attracting crew to work for the company in a very expensive area where there is very little unemployment IS the airlines problem.
They'd have to sink a lot of money into it and it would certainly be an uphill battle.
EZY/TUI/BA are entrenched.
Ryanair abandoned sun routes (bar ALC), Wizz struggle massively with chopping/changing, and Norwegian also struggled prior to their UK demise
Slot capacity at LGW and potential for a poor reputation due to poor airport experience given airport issues.
Just an outsiders opinion of course.
They have a good operation at STN.
10 DME ARC
28th Mar 2023, 20:10
Why would they bother!! Making enough money northwards!
beardy
29th Mar 2023, 09:14
Why would they bother!! Making enough money northwards!
I don't think that any business 'makes enough money' there's always a drive to increase profits. That said LGW may not be best suited for that, it would just be expansion.
USERNAME_
29th Mar 2023, 09:42
Attracting crew to work for the company in a very expensive area where there is very little unemployment IS the airlines problem.
Jet2 would have no issue recruiting in Gatwick, many experienced crew from other airlines would jump across at the drop of a hat.
k.swiss
29th Mar 2023, 13:37
Jet2 would have no issue recruiting in Gatwick, many experienced crew from other airlines would jump across at the drop of a hat.
Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP
29th Mar 2023, 15:46
Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.
People that are on seasonal contracts.
USERNAME_
29th Mar 2023, 17:30
Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.
Who in their “right mind”!?
Jet2 are well known for the treatment of their crew, plus they have one of the highest salaries of U.K. based cabin crews.
As above, those on season contracts with EZY/TUI etc, and cabin crew are scrambling for ways out of Wizz/BA Euroflyer, not to mention crew from elsewhere who would relocate, there would be no shortage……
TheFiddler
29th Mar 2023, 17:36
Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.
According to PPJN, it would take 18 years for a BA short haul Captain to earn the same salary as a year 1 J2 Captain...
k.swiss
30th Mar 2023, 03:09
You guys can jump on technicalities all you like. Apart from seasonal no one is leaving.
Any BA Captain even short haul wouldn’t go, kindly reply here if you would.
ClearedToNowhere
30th Mar 2023, 03:40
You guys can jump on technicalities all you like. Apart from seasonal no one is leaving.
Any BA Captain even short haul wouldn’t go, kindly reply here if you would.
As an FO at Euroflyer I think I can be quite confident when I say that I know many who would jump across to Jet2, from both seats, including a large number of previous 73 drivers.
TheFiddler
30th Mar 2023, 07:11
As an FO at Euroflyer I think I can be quite confident when I say that I know many who would jump across to Jet2, from both seats, including a large number of previous 73 drivers.
And J2's current recruitment / new recruits absolutely reflects that.
Jet2 are well known for the treatment of their crews
Do Jet2 have a proper watertight scheduling agreement now? It was the biggest driver in my decision to leave. Management didn’t seem to realise how important this is to some, and just kept throwing pay rises at the workforce. Yes the money is great but for me a better work/life balance is far more important. Anyone joining Jet2 from airlines with proper agreements might be in for a shock unless things have changed significantly since I left.
RARA9
30th Mar 2023, 10:00
You guys can jump on technicalities all you like. Apart from seasonal no one is leaving.
Any BA Captain even short haul wouldn’t go, kindly reply here if you would.
what are you on about ? I know loads of guys at BA looking to leave . I took the jump a few months ago and haven’t looked back . Admittedly not a captain but a LH SFO .
BA just isn’t that great …..
Flying Wild
30th Mar 2023, 21:06
Do Jet2 have a proper watertight scheduling agreement now? It was the biggest driver in my decision to leave. Management didn’t seem to realise how important this is to some, and just kept throwing pay rises at the workforce. Yes the money is great but for me a better work/life balance is far more important. Anyone joining Jet2 from airlines with proper agreements might be in for a shock unless things have changed significantly since I left.
No, and given the animosity towards Balpa, it never will. However they are working hard to keep crew happy with a Lifestyle 2023 package. They are trialling reduced working patterns (fixed roster) as well as preferences for AM/PM working over this summer. They are trying.
Magplug
31st Mar 2023, 08:07
BA used to be the airline of choice of young guys coming out of training. Even 2-4 years with EZY or RYR was a fair exchange in the knowledge that BA would take you on once you had some experience on the 737 or 320. The golden aspiration was that RHS longhaul and the lifestyle that went with it. Now we have recruitment into BA Euroflyer at LGW giving two hurdles to jump before that LH seat might become a reality.... Firstly, escaping the cheap Euroflyer contract by moving to LHR then another freeze before a move to LH will come into view. In short a move to BA with the aspiration of LH takes far longer today than it might have taken 10 years ago.
The attraction of BA now for those suitably experienced is an early LGW A320 command. Make no mistake.... the current management corps at BA are ambitious and cut-throat. They have a large and homogenous SH fleet and that permits them to work SH pilots like dogs and you are just a number. The lifestyle protections afforded by the former scheduling agreement (Bidline Rules) are now a thing of the past. Consequently BA is no longer a lifestyle choice but merely a stepping stone to be used for advancing your position... if it suits you. If you can get into EF LGW and pass their command course, get a couple of years' command time under your belt then you are a MUCH more saleable commodity worldwide. In this business seniority used to be everything but once you get that 4th stripe it becomes academic. If J2 start looking for crews at LGW and the money is attractive the you will see pilots from both seats leaving BA.
k.swiss
31st Mar 2023, 13:58
No, and given the animosity towards Balpa, it never will. However they are working hard to keep crew happy with a Lifestyle 2023 package. They are trialling reduced working patterns (fixed roster) as well as preferences for AM/PM working over this summer. They are trying.
what are you on about ? I know loads of guys at BA looking to leave . I took the jump a few months ago and haven’t looked back . Admittedly not a captain but a LH SFO .
BA just isn’t that great …..
So my thoughts based on your replies?
BA is no longer the cornerstone it once was, added fact Euroflyer a bunch of cheaters and scammers so everyone wants to leave?
No union protection, and no prospect of long haul RHS if you do make it into BA.
Here I am thinking after 2-3 years at EZY its better to just stay?!
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP
31st Mar 2023, 22:38
Lots of opportunities outside of LHR/LGW for quick long haul commands. You just need the hours and to open your eyes.
go-around flap 15
1st Apr 2023, 09:31
Plenty of Jet2 pilots in both seats based at STN that live south of London and suffer the M25/Dartford Crossing/M11 commute in order to live in Surrey/Sussex/Kent. They would have no problems with FD crewing if LGW were to happen. The problem is slots, something would have to give - be that TUI scaling back/Euroflyer flunking or easyJet/Wizz downsizing. Neither of those options on their own seems particularly likely in the short term but you never know in this industry...
Daily Dalaman Dave
2nd Apr 2023, 08:16
Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.
People who are paid less than J2 offer, of which there are several roles.
You guys can jump on technicalities all you like. Apart from seasonal no one is leaving.
Any BA Captain even short haul wouldn’t go, kindly reply here if you would.
Technicalities? Lol. I would say that basic pay is more than a technicality! There are several new recruits to jet2 that have left BA, Virgin and EK this year alone.
Oh and I left a comfy gig at BA for J2……..best thing I did and better off too. Maybe take the rose tinted specs off, the world has changed.
ToCatLady
4th Apr 2023, 08:53
Ooooooh goody! It’s been a while since we have had a J2 Vs BA Willy waggle!
J2 will move into LGW when TUI eventually folds. No sooner.
oceancrosser
4th Apr 2023, 13:04
Why isn´t this thread in the Airlines, airports and routes forum? Which is very UK centric and even has its own J2 thread?
Flitefone
4th Apr 2023, 16:54
Ooooooh goody! It’s been a while since we have had a J2 Vs BA Willy waggle!
J2 will move into LGW when TUI eventually folds. No sooner.
Jet2 will eventually have a Gatwick base, its a question of when not if. There are no LGW slots available for a summer operation until either - the northern runway in routine use - 2029 - or if before, when easyJet is bought by another carrier such as Jet2, or vice versa to amalgamate the easyjet Holidays and Jet2 Holidays ownership. As an alternative, I wouldn't rule out IAG buying Jet2 at some point either and wrapping in with Euroflyer at Gatwick and expanding the holiday brand to include LHR and LGW (no I don't see Jet2 at LHR ever). Whatever happens Jet2 will end up at Gatwick at some point, but not likely for several years.
FF
Flying Wild
5th Apr 2023, 08:20
Jet2 will eventually have a Gatwick base, its a question of when not if. There are no LGW slots available for a summer operation until either - the northern runway in routine use - 2029 - or if before, when easyJet is bought by another carrier such as Jet2, or vice versa to amalgamate the easyjet Holidays and Jet2 Holidays ownership. As an alternative, I wouldn't rule out IAG buying Jet2 at some point either and wrapping in with Euroflyer at Gatwick and expanding the holiday brand to include LHR and LGW (no I don't see Jet2 at LHR ever). Whatever happens Jet2 will end up at Gatwick at some point, but not likely for several years.
FF
Jet2 buying Easyjet? IAG buying Jet2? Not in a million years.
Being a bit more realistic, if(when) Tui go under, that will probably provide the impetus for an expansion. Not that I'd wish redundancy on anyone, having been there myself. Also, competition is good. If Tui goes, nobody else is near Jet2 in terms of volume.
Biffsticksuperhero
5th Apr 2023, 18:39
Jet2 buying Easyjet? IAG buying Jet2? Not in a million years.
Being a bit more realistic, if(when) Tui go under, that will probably provide the impetus for an expansion. Not that I'd wish redundancy on anyone, having been there myself. Also, competition is good. If Tui goes, nobody else is near Jet2 in terms of volume.
where’s all this TUI going under 🐮💩coming from?
double-oscar
6th Apr 2023, 08:40
Apparently Jet2 management are often telling their employees TUI are going bust. Wishful thinking on their part I think. Although Jet2 has outgrown TUI Airways in the UK, there is so much more to TUI and it has the ability and desire to grow in so many different markets that it is not likely to fail.
Biffsticksuperhero
6th Apr 2023, 09:40
TUI make billions. Jet2 make millions. There’s a difference. Tui is on course to be Covid debt free soon, where as the financial enigma that is jet2 aren’t and are buying 000s of aircraft. So who knows what will happen, can’t see either going anywhere in the interim.
TUI make billions. Jet2 make millions. There’s a difference. Tui is on course to be Covid debt free soon, where as the financial enigma that is jet2 aren’t and are buying 000s of aircraft. So who knows what will happen, can’t see either going anywhere in the interim.
TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.
Firstly Jet2 management don't comment on TUI in any official capacity that I have seen. And there's certainly no speculation about them going bust from management. There's speculation about it in the wider Jet2 workforce, and that's on the back of the share price collapsing 80+% in 5 years, and having over 5BN Euro in debt.
My personal opinion is that TUI has issues, but isn't going anywhere any time soon.
As for Jet2 at Gatwick, until they can go in there with 30+ aircraft and turn the terminal red it's not going to happen.
Biffsticksuperhero
6th Apr 2023, 14:32
Not having a willy waving exercise here but.
[QUOTE=Jonty;11415734]TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.
TUI - €1 billion+
Jet2 - £560 million.
🤷🏼♂️ hopefully though the tides are turning and the whole industry improves and no one goes under.
Not having a willy waving exercise here but.
[QUOTE=Jonty;11415734]TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.
TUI - €1 billion+
Jet2 - £560 million.
🤷🏼♂️ hopefully though the tides are turning and the whole industry improves and no one goes under.
TUI Group Financial Information
Year Revenue Net Profit
2015/16[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) €17.18 billion €1.15 billion
2016/17[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€18.53 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€910.9 million
2017/18[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€19.52 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€780.2 million
2018/19[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€18.92 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€531.9 million
2019/20[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€7.94 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png-(€3.13) billion
2020/21[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€4.73 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png-(€2.48) billion
2021/22[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€16.54 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png-(€0.21) billion
Biffsticksuperhero
6th Apr 2023, 16:23
TUI Group Financial Information
Year Revenue Net Profit
2015/16[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) €17.18 billion €1.15 billion
2016/17[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€18.53 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€910.9 million
2017/18[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€19.52 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€780.2 million
2018/19[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€18.92 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€531.9 million
2019/20[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€7.94 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png-(€3.13) billion
2020/21[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Decrease2.svg/11px-Decrease2.svg.png€4.73 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png-(€2.48) billion
2021/22[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUI_Group#cite_note-:0-28) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png€16.54 billion https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Increase2.svg/11px-Increase2.svg.png-(€0.21) billion[/QUOTE]
Didn’t TUI just repay approx 750million+ in debt repayment… so not far off being back to the 1billion mark.
Either way, I’m not being dragged into a Jet2 vs TUI argument.
EPRman
6th Apr 2023, 17:14
You’ve obviously too much time on your hands Jonty. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
Didn’t TUI just repay approx 750million+ in debt repayment…
They did, by launching a rights issue and massively diluting their current share holders.
You’ve obviously too much time on your hands Jonty. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
I wish I could! unfortunately I'm a share holder!
Biffsticksuperhero
6th Apr 2023, 21:12
They did, by launching a rights issue and massively diluting their current share holders.
The previous rights issues were to create funds to stay afloat without further loans. The rights issue now is to pay the remaining of the loan. The €750mil paid was from the profits. 👍
The previous rights issues were to create funds to stay afloat without further loans. The rights issue now is to pay the remaining of the loan. The €750mil paid was from the profits. 👍
Mmmm……
Ok.