Ukraine and associated airspace

[russelldav]

Was 44m from landing when the cruise and ballistic missiles started to strike. Understandable has diverted. Hope all onboard safe, we live in crazy times!
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1170x1974/d4db951b_4220_4100_9c68_763ef087d9f8_94eeba5b33ce7ea3b4537bc ecff4cbfa193d7275.jpeg

[TCTC]

It seems that Ukraine is under military attack in several parts of the country. For example: Explosions can be heard in Kiev.

[fdr]

Putin's forces just attacked Ukraine in a borad offensive.

My company just announced the following company actions

No operation is permitted in or over Russian territory until no earlier than 24 FEB 2032.
No Russian person, or passport holder shall be carried on a company aircraft until 24 FEB 2032.
No Russian official or diplomat may be carried on a MEDEVAC anywhere in the world until 24 FEB 2052.

Suffice it to say, this may not be an earthquake to the Kremlin, or Putin or his lapdog Trump and Pompeo, but the next item is of interest

The company shall not assist or accept any operation or tasking or any commercial contact with any country that does not cease commercial activities with Russian due to their naked and illegal aggression of a neighboring country. Such ban on 3rd party countries shall remain in force until 24 FEB 2052.

I think my boss is a bit miffed with the evil empire.

Also, the ban includes BELARUS, BELARUS passport holders, and any country dealing with BELARUS.


It may be an army of 1, but there are a lot of 1's out there.

[dr dre]

According to US Senator Marco Rubio Russian Airborne troops are in control of Kiev Airport.

[Spunky Monkey]

But this shows that people will do more that our governments will do.

[eu01]

Well, I would expect a total ban on any Russian aircraft to enter any Western airspace. In my opinion, it would be also wise to revoke any visas for Russian citizens to enter Western countries. Undoubtedly this is a war against all Western values.

[Dont worry]

Completely agree with you guys.
Dont know why the EU didnt come up with this yet. Cancellation of all issued Schengen Visa to Russians, Cancellation of all bought EU Passports and give the ****ers 3-4 days to leave the EU to go home to their so beloved country.
I just remaind myself how badly they laughed at us during the annection of Crinmea. I had a flight to Strassbourg with 3 guys from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. On the way to Strassbourg they where silent and stressed and on the way back they had tons of Vodga and kind of peed and **** on our European Management.
As long as we have anatomic wonders (they can stand upright without having a spine) as politicians this will continue to go on.
Unfortunately none of us can really do anything. Therefore we will be entiteld to watch and listen.
UKRAINE KEEP YOUR HEAD UP

[Dont worry]

Putin's forces just attacked Ukraine in a borad offensive.

My company just announced the following company actions

No operation is permitted in or over Russian territory until no earlier than 24 FEB 2032.
No Russian person, or passport holder shall be carried on a company aircraft until 24 FEB 2032.
No Russian official or diplomat may be carried on a MEDEVAC anywhere in the world until 24 FEB 2052.

Suffice it to say, this may not be an earthquake to the Kremlin, or Putin or his lapdog Trump and Pompeo, but the next item is of interest

The company shall not assist or accept any operation or tasking or any commercial contact with any country that does not cease commercial activities with Russian due to their naked and illegal aggression of a neighboring country. Such ban on 3rd party countries shall remain in force until 24 FEB 2052.

I think my boss is a bit miffed with the evil empire.

Also, the ban includes BELARUS, BELARUS passport holders, and any country dealing with BELARUS.


It may be an army of 1, but there are a lot of 1's out there.
fdr Which company? I think I like to apply for a job. Great decision if this is true. Best would be if Vista Jet would announce something like this.

[avlerx]

Flight Radar appears to have been switched off.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Time to ban any and all RA/ RF owned or registered aircraft flights and over flights. Time to pull the insurance of all the flag of convenience leased fleet aircraft used by Russian carriers.
IMHO

[eu01]

Flight Radar appears to have been switched off.
They inform: "We are still working hard on increasing the capacity, but the very big international interest generate 10-20 times higher traffic than normally, which is hard to handle." The last screen I saw: Ukrainian airspace totally empty. I would be happy to see no Russian aircraft over Europe, but that's not the case. Swift decisions, please!

[biscuit74]

Flight Radar was working up till 30 minutes ago - aseu01 says , likely they are having trouble with interest levels.

Ukraine airspace was empty, as eu01 said, with Global Hawks running observation lines from various places nearby, also Rivet Joint a/c over friendly territory presumably observing and analysing. I hope they stay safe.

It is as others have said, clearly time to restrict all 'previously normal' Russian international activities to make the strongest possible point, No time to dither, take action. Sadly, the UK will almost certainly dither. bluster and delay. 'Action this day' - in the words of a previous, real, leader is what is needed .

[Noxegon]

No operation is permitted in or over Russian territory until no earlier than 24 FEB 2032.

Ten years?

[drichard]

The App seems to be working (albeit slowly), I do wonder if there is a blackout/disruption to coverage over B & U due to land based transceivers not working.

Plenty of expensive military stuff from NATO up at the moment: I'm seeing: RQ-4D, E-8C, F-16CM amongst others

Keep safe everyone

[WillowRun 6-3]

IFALPA Safety Bulletin - with attachment from ICAO European and North Atlantic Regional Office. Links also to EASA bulletin and (earlier) press release from IFALPA.

22sab05-closure-of-airspace-in-moldova-ukraine-and-part-of-rostov-fir-of-the-russian-federation.pdf (ifalpa.org) (https://www.ifalpa.org/media/3731/22sab05-closure-of-airspace-in-moldova-ukraine-and-part-of-rostov-fir-of-the-russian-federation.pdf)


Operations in Flight Information Regions: FIR LVIV (UKLV), FIR KYIV (UKBV), UIR KYIV (UKBU), FIR DNIPROPETROVSK (UKDV), FIR SIMFEROPOL (UKFV), FIR ODESA (UKOV), FIR CHISINAU (LUUU), FIR MOSCOW (UUWW), ROSTOV-NA-DONU (URRV) and FIR MINSK (UMMV) | EASA (europa.eu) (https://www.easa.europa.eu/domains/air-operations/czibs/czib-2022-01)


22prl01-int-pilot-orgs-on-tensions-in-eastern-europe.pdf (ifalpa.org) (https://www.ifalpa.org/media/3730/22prl01-int-pilot-orgs-on-tensions-in-eastern-europe.pdf)

[sycamore]

I see BAW9 is over Russia,south of Moscow...why...?
UK Govmnt should ask Bermuda to withdraw all Russian operated aircraft on VP/VQ- registrations immediately..

[DuncanDoenitz]

Ten years?
I think that's the point; some might think it a little conciliatory.

[ATC Watcher]

I see BAW9 is over Russia,south of Moscow...why...?
UK Govmnt should ask Bermuda to withdraw all Russian operated aircraft on VP/VQ- registrations immediately..
Be careful what you wish for, in today's global economy sanctions are double edge swords, Lot of businesses in the West are going to go broke as a result . Russia is not North Korea.

[Herod]

Be careful what you wish for, in today's global economy sanctions are double edge swords, Lot of businesses in the West are going to go broke as a result . Russia is not North Korea.

Probably true, but then again, what is the price of defending freedom?

[eu01]

All Aeroflot flights to the United Kingdom have been canceled for now. I'm not a fan of Boris Johnson, but his decision was right and well timed, the Russian carrier is banned there. Now... what about the rest of the world? Nobody wants to take any decisive steps in this regard?

[matkat]

Flight Radar appears to have been switched off.
I also noticed that.

[avlerx]

There are 50+ flights on route from Moscow to Sochi.

[DaveReidUK]

All Aeroflot flights to the United Kingdom have been canceled for now. I'm not a fan of Boris Johnson, but his decision was right and well timed, the Russian carrier is banned there. Now... what about the rest of the world? Nobody wants to take any decisive steps in this regard?

And, in a predictable response, Russia has banned UK aircraft from its airspace, which will have a significant effect on a number of routes between the UK and the Far East.

[moleytt]

All Aeroflot flights to the United Kingdom have been canceled for now. I'm not a fan of Boris Johnson, but his decision was right and well timed, the Russian carrier is banned there. Now... what about the rest of the world? Nobody wants to take any decisive steps in this regard?

Indeed, what about the rest of the world. There's currently an Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Nice (SU2470).

[eu01]

And, in a predictable response, Russia has banned UK aircraft from its airspace, which will have a significant effect on a number of routes between the UK and the Far East.
True, every sword has two edges, and that's why the UK must not be left alone, the world's answer should be uniform, banning the aggressor.

[fdr]

Let's not forget that Putin's henchmen shot down a civil airliner over Donbas, the Malaysian B777-200, MI-17. The missile was supplied by Russia, and the operation was supported by Russians. Why any airline would consider it reasonable to overfly Russia is lost upon me. Consider it akin to flying overhead North Korea. Belarus also recently conducted state-sponsored piracy, which is in fact an act of war, and the rest of NATO just sat back and went tut tut.

Today, a ballistic conventional warhead missile was launched against Ukraine, from Belarus, so the word of Alexi Grigoryevich Lukashenko has the same value as Putin. "we are withdrawing..." yeah, right comrade.

[Max Tow]

And, in a predictable response, Russia has banned UK aircraft from its airspace, which will have a significant effect on a number of routes between the UK and the Far East.
Apparently the Russian Federation has restricted access to its airspace to all aircraft “owned, leased, or operated by any person connected with Britain or registered in Britain.”
Will that apply to Brit crews on EK et al?

[eu01]

Meanwhile, Poland and Czechia are going to join the UK in banning Russian airlines from using their airspace.

[Senior Pilot]

Let’s keep this thread on topic with discussion of the airspace and events in the Ukraine, please.

Politics etc belong here (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/644762-russia-ukraine-possible-unpleasantries.html) where a number of recent posts have been moved 🙊👍

[Out Of Trim]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60505417

[sycamore]

It is still noticeable that not all Eu Countries have banned Russian aircraft from their airspace,ie Estonia,Latvia Lithuania,Poland Germany.Kalingrad airspace should be `blockaded as well....Seems the EU speaks with `forked tongue`....

[WillowRun 6-3]

MONTRÉAL, 25 February 2022 – The 36 States composing the ICAO Council discussed today the situation unfolding in Ukraine, during a scheduled meeting of the ICAO Governing Body’s 225th Session.

A representative of Ukraine also participated in the Council meeting on the basis of the State’s stake in the situation.

The topic was considered by the Council on the basis of an oral statement delivered by the President of the Council, Salvatore Sciacchitano, together with a presentation from ICAO Secretary General, Juan Carlos Salazar, which updated Representatives on the operational aviation context.

Council States condemned the violation of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of a United Nations Member State, including its airspace, as being inconsistent with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and Article 1 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (Chicago Convention).

The Council also expressed grave concerns on the latest developments in Ukraine, and solidarity with its people, in direct alignment with the sentiments expressed by the United Nations Secretary General in his statements to the UN General Assembly on 23 and 24 February 2022. States representatives also recalled the preamble to the Convention on International Civil Aviation (Chicago Convention), which identifies the need to avoid friction and instead promote cooperation and friendship among nations and peoples, on which the peace of the world depends.

The Council further underscored the paramount importance of preserving the safety and security of international civil aviation and the related obligations of Member States, and in this context, urged the Russian Federation to cease its unlawful activities to ensure the safety and security of civil aviation in all affected areas, and to respect its obligations under the Chicago Convention as well as other relevant international air law treaties. It called upon all concerned parties to seek to resolve the crisis through peaceful dialogue and diplomatic channels.

The Council also recalled with deep sorrow the human suffering that was caused as a result of the downing of flight MH17 in the east of Ukraine on 17 July 2014, and underlined that such a tragedy should never happen again.

In the same context the Council reconfirmed its support to the “Safer Skies” initiative led by Canada relating to improving international efforts to safeguard civilian flight operations over or in the vicinity of conflict zones.

The Council requested the Secretariat to continue to monitor the situation in Ukraine and provide support to the States involved.

[nivsy]

Why at this particular time, is Qantas and Lufthansa and Air France still.flying through Russian airspace?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x1600/screenshot_20220226_093959_247c3cf2b99a03b23b84af47cbecaff00 3116db2.png

[duvin]

Why at this particular time, is Qantas and Lufthansa and Air France still.flying through Russian airspace?


Because they aren’t British?

[Richard Taylor]

Because they aren’t British?
Because they (& their Govts) lack a backbone.

[ATC Watcher]

for the AF and LH they simply are coming back home.. For the QF it is more arguable., What they do in the next days will be the interesting part to watch, as the old polar route is controlled by the 3 Siberian FIRS ( Murmansk, Krasnoyarsk and Magadan) but being international airspace delegated by ICAO in theory the Russians cannot refuse its use.. in theory that is .

[BRUpax]

AFL flight is about to enter French airspace having overflown Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium!

[atpcliff]

It is still noticeable that not all Eu Countries have banned Russian aircraft from their airspace,ie Estonia,Latvia Lithuania,Poland Germany.Kalingrad airspace should be `blockaded as well....Seems the EU speaks with `forked tongue`....
I read that Poland closed their airspace to Russian flights.

[eu01]

I read that Poland closed their airspace to Russian flights.
UK, Poland, Czechia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Shame on Benelux, France and Germany.

[MikeSnow]

Romania closed its airspace to Russian flights as well. And, as expected, Russia reciprocated.

[andrasz]

LH718 MUC ICN turned around a little north of Perm and is returning to MUC.
The only other EU registered passenger flights I can see over Russia are five AY planes and AF into NRT, soon to leave Russian airspace.

[Max Tow]

Odd that U.S. and Canada are still allowing Russian airlines to overfly en route to Caribbean eg AZV787 currently over Quebec en route LED to VRA with happy holidaymakers.

[nnc0]

Odd that U.S. and Canada are still allowing Russian airlines to overfly en route to Caribbean eg AZV787 currently over Quebec en route LED to VRA with happy holidaymakers.

Waiting for their own carriers to get some of their Long Haul routes sorted before closing their airspace to the Russians?

[Max Tow]

Waiting for their own carriers to get some of their Long Haul routes sorted before closing their airspace to the Russians?

Hasn't that already happened, at least with DL & AA?

[albatross]

Odd that U.S. and Canada are still allowing Russian airlines to overfly en route to Caribbean eg AZV787 currently over Quebec en route LED to VRA with happy holidaymakers.

They, the EU, Nato Countries, Japan, Australia and other asian countries and other countries worldwide should close Airspace, airports. Closing all ports to Russian and their allies Merchant Ships could be effective.

Time to stand up to the demented school bully.

[On Track]

SEATO? That disappeared a long time ago.

[A319]

Denmark is closing down…

[paperHanger]

Denmark is closing down…

This mornings Aeroflot flight into Copenhagen is still en route.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL2658/2af52c2a

Meanwhile, despite Germany's apparent closing of airspace to Russia .. the Aeroflot Moscow to Berlin service is running ...

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL2568/2af530cf

And cargo still running from DE to Moscow ..

https://www.flightradar24.com/ABW682/2af51dbb

[Less Hair]

Germany wil close its airspace for russian a/c today at 3 PM local.

[Max Tow]

Anyone know why Biden still won't join in the airspace ban?

[Clipper7]

… and bans Russian citizens from entering the country.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Very soon, Russia is going to have a lot of aircraft sat on the ground with nowhere to go!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Canada has also just announced an airspace ban for Russian aircraft

[nivsy]

Very soon, Russia is going to have a lot of aircraft sat on the ground with nowhere to go!
To be fair, we have all experienced that over the past two years.

[voyageur9]

Aeroflot 158 is currently overflying Canada

But more interestingly, Aeroflot 124 (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL124) a SVO-JFK B777 is currently over Norway and its flightplan crosses Canada enroute to JFK.

So Ottawa's claim of "with immediate effect" is about to be tested.

[Beamr]

Ok, so what happens if Aeroflot pushes onwards and declares emergency at around newfoundland? Nearest suitable vectored, AC confiscated and pax...?

[ex-EGLL]

Canada has also just announced an airspace ban for Russian aircraft
Would that include the Ocean, or is that "ICAO protected"?

[albatross]

SEATO? That disappeared a long time ago.

My bad, typing too fast and thinking too slow. Post edited.

[voyageur9]

Aeroflot 124 (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFL124) a SVO-JFK B777 ... flightplan crosses Canada enroute to JFK.

So Ottawa's claim of "with immediate effect" is about to be tested.

124 (currently beyond radar range) seems to be threading the strait between Iceland and Greenland. If so, I wonder if it has sufficient fuel to stay off the Newfoundland and Nova Scotia coasts and get to JFK via an oceanic course.

[Richard Taylor]

FR24 says AFL124 is diverting, not yet confirmed where.
Edit: now says back to SVO.

[voyageur9]

And Flightradar claims Aeroflot 124 (https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL124/2af5912d) is diverting back to Moscow. Although not at all clear how it will get there with all the Nordic airspace also closed

[Flyhighfirst]

And Flightradar claims Aeroflot 124 (https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL124/2af5912d) is diverting back to Moscow. Although not at all clear how it will get there with all the Nordic airspace also closed

Countries are not going to let aircraft crash. Planes in the air will be allowed back home. Just no new flights plans will be allowed from now.

[EddyCurr]

Canada has also just announced an airspace ban for Russian aircraftWould that include the Ocean, or is that "ICAO protected"?

"News release (https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2022/02/government-of-canada-prohibits-russian-aircraft-to-enter-canadian-airspace.html) February 27, 2022 Ottawa"
."The Government of Canada is prohibiting the operation of Russian-owned, chartered or operated aircraft in Canadian airspace, including in the airspace above Canada’s territorial waters."
. Previously in articles about airspace closures, there were comments about exceptions to be made for diplomatic missions and the like. What I am reading presently makes no mention of exceptions.

Closing airspace in peace time is one thing. Enforcing closure during a war where Russia is the aggressor is something else again. Someone lay out for me the probable sequence of escalations in the event of an intrusion ...

Now then, financial sanctions bear the prospect of being a different matter altogether:
.Russia central bank urges calm amid cash run fears (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60543994)
By Dearbail Jordan
BBC News 2022.02.27

Russia's central bank said that customers of sanctioned banks would be unable to use their bank cards outside Russia. It also said it will be "impossible" to use cards issued by sanctioned banks for Google Pay or Apple Pay..
"банковская карта отклонена !"

[voyageur9]

Countries are not going to let aircraft crash. Planes in the air will be allowed back home. Just no new flights plans will be allowed from now.

I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.

[crewmeal]

Will Sleepy Joe ban all Russian traffic as well? Canada has!

[DaveReidUK]

Someone lay out for me the probable sequence of escalations in the event of an intrusion ...

No Russian civilian aircraft will intentionally enter closed airspace, so the question is academic.

[Yeehaw22]

I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.

Also what about Russian nationals stuck overseas? Will repatriation be allowed or will they have to get home via none closed airspace routes?

At least whilst abroad they will be able to see more of the true reasons for their sanctions rather than putin controlled 'news' at home.

[eu01]

abroad they will be able to see more of the true reasons for their sanctions rather than putin controlled 'news' at home.
...with their credit cards out of use :ok: a pure pleasure.

[Flyhighfirst]

I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.

If they leave without pax they should be able to make a route back into Russian airspace without any incursions into closed airspace.

As for those Russian citizens stranded. They can make their own way to
as close as possible and then go
overland?

[andrasz]

If they leave without pax they should be able to make a route back into Russian airspace without any incursions into closed airspace.


They can easily make it back even with pax taking the long route via North Africa/ME with a technical stop somewhere.

[Squawk_ident]

It's interesting to observe the AFL flights between KGD/Kaliningrad and Russia on FR24. Because of the different bans, they can't fly in the forbiden FIRs and so they fly ON the FIRs limits until they reach the good Russian airspace. EL AL does exactly the same by flying on the FIR boundary between Egypt and Saudi Arabia when they go to the East.

[voyageur9]

Both AFL157 Punta Cana to SVO and AFL111 MIA-SVO are in the air. Both have filed flight plans that enter Canadian airspace. Both flights could (depending on fuel loaded) avoid Canadian airspace -- but not EU and Nordic.

It will be interesting to see if "with immediate effect" actually means AFL flights get a one-way free pass back to Putinland

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

I see Aeroflot overflying Turkey. As a NATO member I would like to see the Turks offer the same hospitality to all Russian owned/operated aircraft as the rest of NATO. Ground their bloody fleet so they can only fly domestic routes until the spares inventory runs out.

[BRUpax]

To me it would make sense that "repatriation" flights are exempt.

[Flyhighfirst]

They can easily make it back even with pax taking the long route via North Africa/ME with a technical stop somewhere.

If I was the airline I would not want to be planning any technical stops right now. More than likely your plane is gone for good no matter if you think it’s a friendly country. Right now I don’t think Russia has any friends.

Dump the passengers and get the aircraft back. You can pay to get the pax back in alternative carriers.

I think the way this is shaping up anything confiscated is never going to be returned. Houses, yachts, cars, planes…

As it should be, all proceeds sent to Ukraine for reparations.

[RHagrid]

Both AFL157 Punta Cana to SVO and AFL111 MIA-SVO are in the air. Both have filed flight plans that enter Canadian airspace. Both flights could (depending on fuel loaded) avoid Canadian airspace -- but not EU and Nordic.

It will be interesting to see if "with immediate effect" actually means AFL flights get a one-way free pass back to Putinland
Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!

[triplosete]

Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!

That same NOTAM also had this:

THIS RESTRICTION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY AIRCRAFT FLYING IN ACCORDANCE WITH PERMISSION FROM CANADA'S MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT. AFFECTED AIRCRAFT WISHING TO OBTAIN AN AUTHORIZATION OR CLEARANCE INTO THE ABOVE-MENTIONED AIRSPACE MAY APPLY TO THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AT 1-877-992-6853 OR 1-613-992-6853. 27 FEB 16:41 2022 UNTIL 25 MAY 16:00 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 27 FEB 16:41 2022

[fdr]

If I was the airline I would not want to be planning any technical stops right now. More than likely your plane is gone for good no matter if you think it’s a friendly country. Right now I don’t think Russia has any friends.

Dump the passengers and get the aircraft back. You can pay to get the pax back in alternative carriers.

I think the way this is shaping up anything confiscated is never going to be returned. Houses, yachts, cars, planes…

As it should be, all proceeds sent to Ukraine for reparations.

The UN announced last week, 2 days before PUTINIA invaded a sovereign neighbor that the 51 Billion reparations for the 1990 Iraq invasion of Kuwait had been paid back. I would think that the freezing of PUTINIA government-owned banks, including those that are essentially dedicated to supporting his military, will make the reparations faster this time round. Apparently the former KGB emperor of the country of organized crime and oligarchs that have had a rapacious appetite to plunder the natural resources of the Rodina didn't listen to the news on that day; he was too busy lying to the rest of the world.
Have little sympathy for the oligarchs wealth being confiscated, and first up being applied to compensate their victims in Ukraine, and the balance being put towards the recovery of Ukraine from the numb skull actions of Putin. The oligarchs have made hay by empowering Putin, they are the problem as much as he is.
Organised crime from the former USSR is a major threat to the rest of the world, and nothing has been done worth a damn to check that. It is an issue in the USA, and in UK, and within Europe. This is a great time to shut them down, and kick their sorry butts out to the 12 mile limit off Kamchatka, and give them oars. The greatest export from Russia has been AK74's and organised crime. Putin is the peak of the criminal syndicate that Russia has become.
Ordinarily, I would have great sympathy for the populace of Russia that are caught outside of their state as borders close, ordinarily. Until their crime boss, Putin elevated nuclear alert status. After that, they can look after themselves. Just like those families in Ukraine that have been impacted by their government that they have passively sat by as it devolved into a crime state.

[ex-EGLL]

Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!
Well, AFL111 made it through as you said but AFL157 (PUJ - SV0) and AFL159 (CUN-SVO) both seem to have taken a somewhat circuitous along the US Canadian border before turning to a more northerly heading when east of Canadian Domestic Airspace

[brak]

Well, AFL111 made it through as you said but AFL157 (PUJ - SV0) and AFL159 (CUN-SVO) both seem to have taken a somewhat circuitous along the US Canadian border before turning to a more northerly heading when east of Canadian Domestic Airspace

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-27-22/h_1889b357ab1275bf9247079bf0d6f4e2

“We are aware that Aeroflot flight 111 violated the prohibition put in place earlier today on Russian flights using Canadian airspace. We are launching a review of the conduct of Aeroflot and the independent air navigation service provider, NAVCAN, leading up to this violation. We will not hesitate to take appropriate enforcement action and other measures to prevent future violations,” Transport Canada said Sunday

[triplosete]

Well, AFL111 made it through as you said but AFL157 (PUJ - SV0) and AFL159 (CUN-SVO) both seem to have taken a somewhat circuitous along the US Canadian border before turning to a more northerly heading when east of Canadian Domestic Airspace
All of these three flights you mentioned will follow the same route from VESMI (a waypoint within Gander-CZQX). I can't post any image yet because I'm new to PPRuNe, but you can see the route they're following here: imgur.com/zgjUphy.png

That means they are flying over Canadian, Danish (Greenland), and Norwegian airspace, entering Russia in the Murmansk region that borders Norway. In the Canadian NOTAM, there was a phone number for the affected aircraft to request an exemption, which I assumed they did successfully, since they all are one-way repatriation flights. From the Danish NOTAM, they seemed to have accepted waiver requests as well till 2300Z (they no longer are). I couldn't find any NOTAMs referring to the airspace ban in Norwegian airspace, i.e. ENOB and ENOR, which are the FIRs they're flying through. Although Norway has said they're banning Russian flights, likely because they are not in the EU, they haven't issued immediate NOTAMs in this regard.
cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-27-22/h_1889b357ab1275bf9247079bf0d6f4e2
The 1641Z NOTAM did state that they were accommodating exemption requests for the affected aircraft. I thought that was the case here.AFFECTED AIRCRAFT WISHING TO OBTAIN AN AUTHORIZATION OR CLEARANCE
INTO THE ABOVE-MENTIONED AIRSPACE MAY APPLY TO THE MINISTRY OF
TRANSPORT AT 1-877-992-6853 (tel:1-877-992-6853) OR 1-613-992-6853 (tel:1-613-992-6853). 27 FEB 16:41 2022 UNTIL 25 MAY
16:00 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 27 FEB 16:41 2022

[India Four Two]

A CBC report on the Aeroflot flight includes the following:
Nav Canada confirmed to Reuters that Aeroflot did enter the Canadian airspace. It said the aircraft operator declared the flight as a humanitarian flight as it entered the domestic airspace, which requires special handling by air traffic control under normal circumstances.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/transport-canada-aeroflot-airspace-ban-1.6366823

[WillowRun 6-3]

Referring to "Airspace Closures" IFALPA has issued a Safety Bulletin addressing Interference with.GNSS signals. Text of the SAB refers to military activities and conflict zones.
Link:
https://ifalpa.us13.list-manage.com/track/click?u=89b4a8b26dd5c5cce159d56a3&id=1571f031f9&e=ec48ca9e7e

22sab06.

[ATC Watcher]

Some of the posts here showed a total misunderstanding of what the rules of the air are and what the old Chicago convention stipulates. You can issue sanctions against airlines, not against State flights. Civil ATC is not a police service, any flight entering your airspace with a flight plan will be given service, what happens afterwards is a matter for the authorities after landing. There are more worrying things happening right now than worrying if one Aeroflot aircraft is entering an FIR supposedly not being allowed into .We should be far more worried about the Western aircraft currently taking shortcuts around Ukrainian airspace when hell will break loose.

[Turnleft080]

Some of the posts here showed a total misunderstanding of what the rules of the air are and what the old Chicago convention stipulates. You can issue sanctions against airlines, not against State flights. Civil ATC is not a police service, any flight entering your airspace with a flight plan will be given service, what happens afterwards is a matter for the authorities after landing. There are more worrying things happening right now than worrying if one Aeroflot aircraft is entering an FIR supposedly not being allowed into .We should be far more worried about the Western aircraft currently taking shortcuts around Ukrainian airspace when hell will break loose.
.
Quite correct. A flight plan is lodged and ATC only provide the service. What happens at destination is another issue. I remember vividly back in 1982 when KAL007 was shot down, their happened to be a Aeroflot IL-62 on the ground at JFK. It's wheels were chained and trucks parked around it, it wasn't going anywhere.

[FullOppositeRudder]

Qantas is now using the southern route to/from LHR to Darwin:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/02/breaking-qantas-changes-australia-to-london-flightpath/

[WillowRun 6-3]

ATC Watcher ..... thank you for emphasizing the stuff actually important as comparrd to, single instances not too important to begin with.

I'm not getting out any citation to Convention, Annexes or other sources but - I'm pretty sure that the Convention on International Civil Aviation, known to all concerned as the Chicago Convention of 1944, separates State "aircraft" to which the Convention does not apply, from civil "aircraft" to which it does apply. (Whether it's useful to call it "old"....I'm leaving that for some other thread perhaps.)

[andrasz]

I'm pretty sure that the ... Chicago Convention of 1944, separates State "aircraft" to which the Convention does not apply, from civil "aircraft" to which it does apply.

It is very simple. The Chicago Convention applies to aircraft which are registered by a Civil Aviation Authority (as defined in the Convention) of a member state. All other aircraft are excluded. It does not matter what activity is said aircraft engaged in, it falls under the Convention. However there are articles pertaining to different activities (commercial, government,SAR, humanitarian relief, etc ).

[grizzled]

It is very simple. The Chicago Convention applies to aircraft which are registered by a Civil Aviation Authority (as defined in the Convention) of a member state. All other aircraft are excluded. It does not matter what activity is said aircraft engaged in, it falls under the Convention. However there are articles pertaining to different activities (commercial, government,SAR, humanitarian relief, etc ).

Not quite correct Andrasz. As you can see from this extract from the Convention, WillowRun was on the right track re differences between "state" aircraft and other civil registered aircraft. Some "state" aircraft are civil registered (i.e. police aircraft) while others are not (i.e. military aircraft) but all have special conditions attached with respect to operating into the sovereign airspace of another country (or "State" using ICAO and UN terminology).

Civil and State aircraft (Art. 3 of the Convention)

a) This Convention shall be applicable only to civil aircraft, and shall not be applicable to state aircraft.

b) Aircraft used in military, customs and police services shall be deemed to be state aircraft.

c) No state aircraft of a contracting State shall fly over the territory of another State or land thereon without authorization by special agreement or otherwise, and in accordance with the terms thereof.

d) The contracting States undertake, when issuing regulations for their state aircraft , that they will have due regard for the safety of navigation of civil aircraft.

Cheers,
Grizz

[eu01]

Reuters: Hundreds of Russia plane leases to be axed after Western sanctions (https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/hundreds-russia-plane-leases-be-axed-after-eu-sanctions-2022-02-28/)

[Atlantic Explorer]

Nordwind currently have a Moscow to Cancun flight in the air. Flight time of circa 13 hours due to the extended routing. Let’s hope they don’t need to divert en route or there will be problems!

[ATC Watcher]

Nordwind currently have a Moscow to Cancun flight in the air. Flight time of circa 13 hours due to the extended routing. Let’s hope they don’t need to divert en route or there will be problems!
What problems? if he is in emergency he will be given full assistance like any other aircraft in need. Let's stop this witch hunt.

As to the definition of what is a state aircraft , the 1944 definition moved with time into a grey area. Aircraft carrying head of State for instance can be considered State aircraft , even if a non military aircraft is being used..
A definition now widely accepted is the following : State aircraft have been defined as all aircraft owned and operated by the government. This definition is very wide and is based on ownership. Consequently, not only typical State aircraft, such as military, police, or customs aircraft, but equally aircraft owned and operated by a public body are considered State aircraft. ,

.

[Lonewolf_50]

Let's stop this witch hunt. Thanks, as that tendency (witch hunting) interferes with gleaning useful information as regards planes that may or may not get back off the ground in the near term.

[Pilot DAR]

President Biden just closed US airspace to Russian aircraft in his state of the union address.

[Atlantic Explorer]

What problems? if he is in emergency he will be given full assistance like any other aircraft in need. Let's stop this witch hunt.

As to the definition of what is a state aircraft , the 1944 definition moved with time into a grey area. Aircraft carrying head of State for instance can be considered State aircraft , even if a non military aircraft is being used..
A definition now widely accepted is the following : ,

.

What witch hunt?? I never said they would be denied assistance but once they’re on the ground that’s when the problems start. I think it’s a bad idea to be flying a route where all your diversion airfields are in countries in which your banned from their airspace.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Are these airspace closures viable in the long term ? What is the end game for the West with respect to denial of airspace if Putin doesn’t get out of Ukraine, which is the most likely scenario ?

[Pilot DAR]

Transport Canada is taking action with respect to Canada's airspace being closed to Russian aircraft:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/russian-plane-yellowknife-1.6370725

[EddyCurr]

Transport Canada is taking action with respect to Canada's airspace being closed to Russian aircraft:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/russian-plane-yellowknife-1.6370725
."It appears that the plane and its passengers were on their way to Resolute, Nunavut, with the intention of taking a planned Arctic overland expedition in a large all-terrain utility vehicle,".
Hmm, any images of the large all-terrain utility vehicle?

The count for Russian intrusions into Canadian airspace stands at what now?

Well, there must be simple explanations, because

No Russian civilian aircraft will intentionally enter closed airspace, ...

Edit: FR24 currently shows 15 aircraft on the ground for YZF. My limited access only displays two, both domestic [Canadian North B733 (C-FKCN) and Air Tindi DH6C (C-FOPN)]

IJM's Dassault Falcon 900EX (VP-CVS) from GVA arrived YZF Mar 1 11:59.

[DaveReidUK]

I'm confused.

"It appears that the plane and its passengers were on their way to Resolute, Nunavut, with the intention of taking a planned Arctic overland expedition in a large all-terrain utility vehicle"

So was or wasn't this a Russian aircraft ?

IJM's Dassault Falcon 900EX (VP-CVS) from GVA arrived YZF Mar 1 11:59.

IJM (International Jet Management GmbH (https://www.ijm.at/en)) is, of course, an Austrian company.

This has all the makings of a non-story.

[boaclhryul]

This has all the makings of a non-story.

Unless chartered by Russians? "...Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) prohibiting Russian aircraft (owned, chartered, or certified)..."

[India Four Two]

Perhaps it is a story.

F0402/22 NOTAMR F0400/22
A) CZVR CZEG B) 2202271638 C) 2205251600EST
E) ALL AIRCRAFT OWNED, CHARTERED OR OPERATED OR OTHERWISE CONTROLED (sic)
BY A PERSON CONNECTED WITH RUSSIA, OR WHICH IS REGISTERED IN
RUSSIA, AND ALL OPERATORS HOLDING AN AIR OPERATOR CERTIFICATE
(AOC) ISSUED BY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AUTHORITIES ARE
PROHIBITED TO ENTER, EXIT OR OVERFLY CANADA'S AIRSPACE.

[India Four Two]

Hmm, any images of the large all-terrain utility vehicle?
Probably these vehicles:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1491x488/screen_shot_2022_03_03_at_11_41_32_am_f7719c1427efee799c2e9f 976260ba5691fc5e12.png

Diary of expedition MLAE-2022 (http://www.yemelya.ru/diary2022_en.php?lnk=2022)

There is probably more to this than meets the eye. These vehicles have been driving around on the polar ice since 2013. Affirming sovereignty in the Canadian Arctic has been an ongoing issue for the Canadian Government. It's probably a hot-button issue now.

[DaveReidUK]

Perhaps it is a story.

Maybe.

My understanding is that Transport Canada has yet to rule on whether the NOTAM has been violated by the arrival of Russian passengers on an Austrian-owned/operated, Caymans-registered aircraft.

Time will tell.

[India Four Two]

I expect the key issue will be "Who was the charterer?".

[sycamore]

I have emailed the Bermudan CAA to see if they are going to withdraw all Russian VB/VP/VQ- registered aircraft,as Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory. So far ,no reply....

[Big Pistons Forever]

Saw one parked in the penalty box as we taxied by today. It will be interesting to see whether it will ever be released.

[DaveReidUK]

I have emailed the Bermudan CAA to see if they are going to withdraw all Russian VB/VP/VQ- registered aircraft,as Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory. So far ,no reply....

You'll need to send a few more emails - the VP/VQ prefixes are used by Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Montserrat and Turks & Caicos as well as Bermuda.

[fdr]

You'll need to send a few more emails - the VP/VQ prefixes are used by Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Montserrat and Turks & Caicos as well as Bermuda.

You will want to check with M- and T7- as well as the number of N- aircraft registered through the Bank of Utah Trustee etc... which is a large number of US aircraft beneficially owned by foreigners through a trust.

[oceancrosser]

Unless chartered by Russians? "...Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) prohibiting Russian aircraft (owned, chartered, or certified)..."

This aircraft is owned by a russian whichever way he tries to hide it. Flown by russian pilots. I have had dealings with these people. The owner plans to drive around the earth, via the Poles. That will probably get delayed for a while. A UK company has been assisting them in the polar preparations.

[DaveReidUK]

I see that AFL7030 is now well into Polish air space. Have Poland not banned them from their space?

Repatriation flight for Russian nationals trapped in Hungary. Similar flight going to Larnaca.

More flights planned for the weekend, to Munich, Geneva and Amsterdam.

[EddyCurr]

Regarding IJM's Dassault Falcon 900EX (VP-CVS) from GVA arrived YZF Mar 1 11:59.
.Pilots, owner of plane that brought Russian to Yellowknife fined (https://www.nnsl.com/news/pilots-owner-of-plane-that-brought-russian-to-yellowknife-fined/)
by Ethan Butterfield
Northern News Services Limited 2022.03.04

Transport Canada said Friday, March 4 that the plane, which was grounded once authorities at the airport discovered a Russian had arrived on board, would be allowed to leave, but not with its passenger.

The aircraft was operating in Canadian airspace in contravention of an order issued Feb. 27.

The Russian national aboard and both pilots were fined $3,000 apiece. The company that owns the plane, Swiss-based Dunard Engineering, was fined $15,000..
and
.Fines levied against those involved with Russian-controlled plane grounded in Yellowknife (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/russian-plane-yellowknife-1.6373389)
Charter flight violated Canadian airspace restrictions, Transport Canada says
CBC News 2022.03.04

Sau Sau Liu, a senior communications advisor with Transport Canada, said in an email that the federal agency investigated the flight. Though the aircraft is not Russian-owned or registered, Transport Canada found it broke new airspace restrictions that were announced Feb. 27 in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Those restrictions closed Canada's airspace to any Russian-owned, operated or chartered aircraft.

Liu said Transport Canada is allowing the aircraft in question to operate in Canadian airspace so it can leave Yellowknife, but it can't have any passengers on board.

News of the flight broke Wednesday when the N.W.T.'s infrastructure minister, Diane Archie, told the Legislative Assembly the passengers had been en route to Resolute, Nunavut, as part of an Arctic expedition in a "large all-terrain utility vehicle."

As first reported by Cabin Radio on Wednesday, the expedition to the Arctic is likely the TransGlobal Car Expedition (https://transglobalcar.com/), where a team is attempting to cross every continent by vehicle.

The team includes Vasily Shakhnovsky, a Russian former oil and gas executive once reported by Forbes to have wealth well in excess of $1 billion, and Vasily Elagin, a Russian mountaineer and explorer. .
A) Fines seem inconsequential.
B) What of the passenger prevented from leaving with the aircraft ...

Edit: Flight History: VP-CVS. From YZF (ATD 2022.03.04 13:24) To GVA (STA 06:00)

[DaveReidUK]

This aircraft is owned by a Russian whichever way he tries to hide it. Flown by Russian pilots.

Evidently neither of these assertions appears to be correct.

[andrasz]

Evidently neither of these assertions appears to be correct.
Exactly what evidence appears to contradict the assertions... ?

[oceancrosser]

Evidently neither of these assertions appears to be correct.

Au contraire. There is nothing in the canadian news that contradicts what I wrote. Dunard Engineering of Switzerland has unclear ownership (exactly what expat Russians do). It was in the Panama papers. https://panama.data2www.com/e/10144695

As for the pilots, I am sure they have more than two. But I am looking at the business cards of the two I met. Russians.

[Pilot DAR]

A) Fines seem inconsequential.

In this present day world context, yes. However, in Canada, maximum fines for offenses are prescribed by regulation, and those sound like maximums for the offense which could be applied to the situation. If the government had the authority to apply an immense fine which in this context, many of us would consider appropriate, there would otherwise be a chorus of complaint about unrestrained bureaucrats going rogue. What has been done sends a signal, which remaining socially acceptable in a normal life context in Canada.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

And yet certain UK and German 747 freight operators are still happily operating in the UK/EU/US.

[DaveReidUK]

Exactly what evidence appears to contradict the assertions... ?

See the link in Eddy's post.

Transport Canada explicitly stated that the aircraft is not Russian-owned, and identified only the passengers as being Russian nationals.

[widgeon]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/russian-charter-jet-racks-up-20k-in-fines-after-entering-canada

Though I suppose if you can afford a vacation in the high arctic the fine is small change.

[andrasz]

DaveReidUK I am with oceancrosser on this...

[andrasz]

In related news, Aeroflot just announced the suspension of all international operations as of 8 March...
(Some news sites suggesting to avoid aircraft being repossessed by lessors)

[DaveReidUK]

DaveReidUK I am with oceancrosser on this...

Fair enough.

I'm with Transport Canada:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/675x377/transport_canada_tweet_ee4d9c3de9bab78b92dfddd48b552fc520e98 c8f.jpg

[EddyCurr]

However, in Canada, maximum fines for offenses are prescribed by regulation, and those sound like maximums for the offense which could be applied to the situation. If the government had the authority to apply an immense fine which in this context, many of us would consider appropriate, there would otherwise be a chorus of complaint about unrestrained bureaucrats going rogue. What has been done sends a signal, which remaining socially acceptable in a normal life context in Canada.

Pilot DAR. The mild VP-CVS penalties are equivalent to those recently levied for merely flouting CDN COVID border restrictions and Ottawa noise by-laws. That said, my remark about the figures is simply to draw attention.

Remember. It is not quite six months since Kovrig/Spavor were finally repatriated following a "vacation" (2018.12 to 2021.09) triggered by uncharacteristic efficiency at YVR in 2018. Over a matter with much less at stake.

As intimated in #63: border closure is one thing, enforcement another. In the present CDN context: intrusion made, wrist slapped; no tears shed, dominoes remain upright. Elsewhere next time?

Comprehensive global financial-&-ect sanctions for the win.

[DaveReidUK]

I have emailed the Bermudan CAA to see if they are going to withdraw all Russian VB/VP/VQ- registered aircraft,as Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory. So far ,no reply....

Any joy yet ?

That's not a rhetorical questiion - I understand that in the last few days the Isle of Man has started a cull of Russian/Belorussian-owned aircraft that are using IoM as a flag of convenience.

Gone from the Manx register (so far) are an EC155, EC175 and A340 all owned by Alisher Usmanov, an Embraer Legacy owned by Alexander Zingman and Alexey Mordashov's Global 6000.

Maybe Bermuda will follow suit ?

[Pilot DAR]

It seems that the US government has made an exception, and allowed a Russian charter to land at Dulles (Washington) to fly out many Russian diplomats. They seem to not have allowed it to the terminal, boarding and loading "away" from everything....

[Longtimer]

It seems that the US government has made an exception, and allowed a Russian charter to land at Dulles (Washington) to fly out many Russian diplomats. They seem to not have allowed it to the terminal, boarding and loading "away" from everything....Russian plane lands in US to remove diplomats expelled for alleged espionageRussian plane lands in US to remove diplomats expelled for alleged espionage - Digital Journal (https://www.digitaljournal.com/world/russian-plane-lands-in-us-to-remove-diplomats-expelled-for-alleged-espionage/article)

[fdr]

Any joy yet ?

That's not a rhetorical questiion - I understand that in the last few days the Isle of Man has started a cull of Russian/Belorussian-owned aircraft that are using IoM as a flag of convenience.

Gone from the Manx register (so far) are an EC155, EC175 and A340 all owned by Alisher Usmanov, an Embraer Legacy owned by Alexander Zingman and Alexey Mordashov's Global 6000.

Maybe Bermuda will follow suit ?

Pity, really. if they just suspend the CoA instead, the planes cannot be re-registered somewhere else. If the CoR is canceled they can be re-registered.

[andrasz]

Pity, really. if they just suspend the CoA instead, the planes cannot be re-registered somewhere else. If the CoR is canceled they can be re-registered.

I'm not privy to the full pertaining legislation, but I sense that CoA cannot be suspended without a demonstrated technical cause.

[fdr]

I'm not privy to the full pertaining legislation, but I sense that CoA cannot be suspended without a demonstrated technical cause.

you are correct Andrasz, registration ordinarily has a fit and proper person criteria which permits suspension or cancellation. Our CoA's for Part 25 require FPP as well related to the airworthiness program, related to MC, SOM and CAME, so it would be possible to suspend the CoA of our aircraft, but it is a tortuous road to get there vs the direct FPP > COR issue.

[A0283]

A private jet has been impounded at Farnborough Airport in Hampshire as authorities investigate its connection with a billionaire Russian oligarch.The jet flew into the country last Thursday 10032022 and UK officials believe oil tycoon Eugene Shvidler was on board.They are now investigating whether the ac is permanently leased to Shvidler and falls under UK sanctions.The Luxembourg-registered jet was due to take off from the UK to Dubai, but officials have now prevented this.

It comes as the UK announced new sanctions on Russian ac. Ministers are making it a criminal offence for ac owned or chartered by Russians to enter UK airspace, and new trade sanctions will prevent all UK exports of aviation or space-related technology to Russia.Mr Shvidler has himself not been personally sanctioned by the UK at any stage.

Announcing the new measures, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the changes would inflict further "economic pain on Russia and those close to the Kremlin".She added the govt would continue to support Ukraine and "work to isolate Russia on the international stage".

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said the UK was "one of the first countries to ban Russian ac and today we are going even further by making it a criminal offence for Russian ac to operate in UK airspace".

[ATC Watcher]

making it a criminal offence for Russian ac to operate in UK airspace
I wonder what the next step will be . Retaliation will follow of course, I have a feeling this is not going to end well, especially for our industry already weakened by 2 years of Covid.
If Russia closes its airspace permanently to the west airlines, the future of our European legacy airlines is in the balance.

[sycamore]

DRUK,I asked the IOM; Reply was 7a/c were de-reg`d;replied that there were 3 more in Moscow at that moment,different airports;2 have disappeared,1 may still be there..as FR24 only covers about 7 days...
No reply from Bermuda.
Reply from FCDO...Further sanctions,but no `direct answer...
Typhoon(s)+ tanker `capping`last night east of Bucharest...

[3Greens]

I wonder what the next step will be . Retaliation will follow of course, I have a feeling this is not going to end well, especially for our industry already weakened by 2 years of Covid.
If Russia closes its airspace permanently to the west airlines, the future of our European legacy airlines is in the balance.
not really. Hardly any Far East destinations worth operating to GIA russia at the moment anyway. HKG&China are written off so just leaves Japan really. Don’t forget that Russian Airspace wasn’t available until the 90s anyway.

[ATC Watcher]

not really. Hardly any Far East destinations worth operating to GIA russia at the moment anyway. HKG&China are written off so just leaves Japan really. Don’t forget that Russian Airspace wasn’t available until the 90s anyway.
I was more thinking Europe-China, than Tokyo or Seoul. The Chinese airlines are going to be at a serious advantage when this mess is over, maybe the Gulf ones too, I did not follow their stance on Russia. As to before 1990, yes I remember very well the hours it took and the price of the tickets too. There were hardly any flights to China at that time, a third world economy back then. Things are a bit different now. The future will definitively be in the Asia-Pacific.

[WillowRun 6-3]

Safety Bulletin (22SAB07) by Int'l Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations, "Flying Into and Over Conflict Zones" -- link:
22sab07-flying-into-and-over-conflict-zones.pdf

The bulletin notes the worrying occurence of "military and non-military projectiles crossing FIRs adjacent to Ukrainian airspace."
It also contains a link to IFALPA resources materially relevant to the subject matter area addressed in this bulletin.

[DaveReidUK]

Safety Bulletin (22SAB07) by Int'l Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations, "Flying Into and Over Conflict Zones" -- link:
22sab07-flying-into-and-over-conflict-zones.pdf

The bulletin notes the worrying occurence of "military and non-military projectiles crossing FIRs adjacent to Ukrainian airspace."
It also contains a link to IFALPA resources materially relevant to the subject matter area addressed in this bulletin.

Working link to what may or may not be the referenced document, although it doesn't appear to include the quoted text: IFALPA - Flights into and over conflict zones (https://ifalpa.org/media/2162/15pos08-flights-into-and-over-conflict-zones.pdf).

Out of interest, what's a "non-military projectile" ? Presumably if you're brought down by one of those, it doesn't count ...

[WillowRun 6-3]

Thanks DR-UK.
Here's link to March 16 IFALPA Safety Bulletin page:
https://www.ifalpa.org/publications/library/flying-into-and-over-conflict-zones--3580

The bulletin cites a "Position" issued by IFALPA several years ago (December 2014) - that's what's in the link DR posted.

(text I quoted is in the 03-16-2022 SAB)

[WillowRun 6-3]

IFALPA has disseminated a Safety Info. Bulletin issued by EASA (European Union Aviation Safety Agency). "Global Navigation Satellite System Outage Leading to Navigation/Surveillance Degradation", Safety Information Bulletin, Operations - ATM/ANS, SIB No. 2022-02 (March 17, 2022).

Reference is made to Ukraine conflict and other areas as well.

The page on IFALPA's site from which the bulletin can be downloaded is:
https://www.ifalpa.org/publications/library/gnss-outage-leading-to-navigation-surveillance-degradation--3583