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360BakTrak
25th May 2021, 20:10
Evening all

I have a question regarding the CAA statement here (https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Non-UK-licences/Recognition-of-ICAO-third-country-licences-in-UK-airspace/)

If someone were to operate an aircraft based in mainland UK but registered in Guernsey (2-Reg), using an FAA standalone PPL, would they need to follow the process stated by the CAA even though they're not flying a G or N registered aircraft? Or could they continue to operate on the FAA licence?

A little confused or maybe just overthinking it.

Cheers all

awair
26th May 2021, 07:44
FAA certificate is good for:

Fly anything in the US
Fly N anywhere


If youíre not in either of these categories, you need to comply with local rules, either of registry (Guernsey validation of FAA certificate), or location.

Good luck.

MrAverage
26th May 2021, 08:16
awair

FAA cert no longer simple if permanently resident in the UK. If you click on the OP's link you'll know why.

Whopity
26th May 2021, 19:19
ICAO Annex 1
1.2.2.2 Recommendation.ó A pilot licence issued by a
Contracting State should be rendered valid by other
Contracting States for use in private flights.

The UK complies with this recomendation in respect of Non Part 21 aircraft and validaes ICAO licences in accordance with the ANO Article 150.

What safety reason is there for complying with a recomendation in respect of one group of aircraft whilst ignoring it for Part 21 aircraft?

excrab
26th May 2021, 23:24
So if you are flying an aircraft owner (private operations) but are paid for this (commercial activity), you need a validation (https://cms.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/ICAO-third-country-licences/How-to-validate-your-ICAO-third-country-licence/) or Part-FCL licence to legally fly.

That is taken from the CAA website, and the whole thing seems extremely confusing. I hold an FAA ATP certificate (multi-engine land). Is this saying that if the owner of an N reg aircraft wants to pay me to fly him in his aircraft I first have to have a validation of my FAA certificate by the CAA, or a need a CAA issued licence. Does that therefore imply that I could be paid for pilot services flying an N reg aircraft under IFR if I didnít hold an FAA licence, but only a U.K. licence. But then I get even more confused. I also hold a U.K. issued ATPL with a valid MEP rating. Do I still have to do some sort of oral exam (and pay the CAA fees) to prove my knowledge of U.K. procedures before I can exercise the privileges of my FAA certificate in an N reg aircraft despite the fact that I have in the past proved that knowledge for the issue of my U.K. PPL, CPL, and eventually ATPL (three sets of exams covering U.K. air law etc). My FAA ATP is a full license issued in the US, not a piggy back on my U.K. licence.

Once upon a time the holder of an ICAO licence could automatically exercise VFR privileges in a G reg aircraft. Why did that have to be changed ?

Fl1ingfrog
27th May 2021, 10:06
To fly an N reg. aircraft anywhere in the world then it must be by reference to the USA FAA regulation. I believe however that the aircraft used commercially must be recorded with the FAA as being used as such. If you are only acting as the paid pilot for the aircraft owner then the owner remains the operator.. This is considered a private flight but the pilot must have a commercial licence if payed. If the pilot is an 'employee and the main role is not to act as a pilot then the pilot does not have to hold more than a PPL. For private purposes the FAA permit the holder of a licence issued in the same state of the airspace, in which the flight is taking place, to fly the aeroplane.

The CAA does not have oversight for FAA registered aircraft. You are only required to apply/register with the CAA / Dept. of Transport if you wish to use an FAA licence to fly a UK registered aeroplane. If you already hold an appropriate UK licence then you will use that to fly and so the FAA licence is not an issue.

I agree with whopity that the stupid rules requiring 100 hours for PPL use is unnecessary but is left over from the bizarre EASA regulation borne from anti American thinking. There is no safety argument to require this. Hopefully the UK CAA will eventually correct this.

360BakTrak
27th May 2021, 10:12
To fly an N reg. aircraft anywhere in the world then it must be by reference to the USA FAA regulation. I believe that the aircraft used commercially must be recorded with the FAA as being used as such. If you are only acting as the paid pilot for the aircraft owner then the owner remains the operator.. This is considered a private flight but the pilot must have a commercial licence if payed. The CAA does not have oversight for FAA registered aircraft.

You are only required to apply/register with the CAA / Dept. of Transport if you wish to use an FAA licence to fly a UK registered aeroplane. If you already hold an appropriate UK licence then you will use that to fly and so the FAA licence is not an issue.

I agree with whopity that the stupid rules requiring 100 hours for PPL use is unnecessary but left over from the bizarre EASA regulation anti American thinking. There is no safety argument to require this.

So, as you understand it, the CAA are stating it applies to 'G' registered aircraft and '2' are not affected if using an FAA licence?

Thnaks for all input so far.

BEagle
27th May 2021, 19:56
No, it applies to flying ANY aircraft in UK airspace!

timprice
10th Jun 2021, 19:44
Not sure, I think G reg you need a validation, N Reg it's a grey area but if you have a FAA licence would be difficult to see how it can be wrong!
Other wise EASA Licence will eventually go same way???????????:ugh:

portsharbourflyer
10th Jun 2021, 21:55
The new rule essentially states (as I understand it) that an ICAO license can no longer be used for flying the G reg day VFR for leisure as before, so yes that affects EASA licenses. Only EASA licenses issued before brexit have access to the two year validation. So it does stand a post 31/12/2020 issued EASA license holder wishing to do day vfr lisure flying in the UK will require a UK Part FCL for flying after the 20th June.

FAA holders residing in the UK have an exemption until the 21st December.

shorehamite
30th Dec 2021, 11:07
The 21st december deadline now having passed, what does a FAA licence holder now have to do to obtain a UK PPL with SEP rating, would it be to training to pass a skill test and all the exams? and a class 2 medical.
Is it written down anywhere.
Many Thanks.

ifitaintboeing
30th Dec 2021, 15:55
The conversion process can found in UK Aircrew Regulation 2020/723 (https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=10002) Article 9. It's fairly straightforward providing the pilot has at least 100 hours total flight time logged: completion of Air Law and Human Performance examinations, plus ground and flight training as required at an ATO/DTO plus a PPL Skill Test. A UK Part-MED Class Two medical is also required for licence issue. I recommend completing a Flight Radio Telephony Operator's Licence (FRTOL) at the same time as licence conversion (details in CAP 804 Section 6), so your pilot may actually need to complete three written examinations (Air Law, Human Performance, Communications) then complete the PPL Skill Test and FRTOL Practical Examination.

At the point of application, their FAA certificate will need to be current (FAA Flight Review and FAA medical). I can conduct the FAA Flight Review in the UK, if required.

ifitaint...

BillieBob
31st Dec 2021, 10:31
The ORS (No.4 1490) upon which the CAA guidance is based has been withdrawn, rendering that guidance moot.

Reverting to the relevant legal requirements and since the aircraft is registered in Guernsey, the FAA licence must be rendered valid under Article 18 of the Bailiwick of Guernsey ANO.

Thereafter, to fly the aircraft in UK airspace, UK ANO Article 148 applies and, assuming that the licence is indeed rendered valid under Guernsey law, the operations are compliant with this article.

ANO Article 148(1) Subject to paragraph (2), this article applies to any aircraft registered in a country other than the United Kingdom.

(2) [Revoked]

(3) A person must not act as a member of the flight crew which must by or under this Order be carried in an aircraft to which this article applies unless—

(a) in the case of an aircraft flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or commercial operation, that person is the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered or the State of the operator; or

(b) in the case of aircraft on a non-commercial flight, and where the operator of the aircraft is neither resident nor established in the United Kingdom, that person is the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered or under this Order and the CAA does not give a direction to the contrary; or

[(c) in the case of an aircraft on a non-commercial flight, where the operator of the aircraft is resident or established in the United Kingdom, that person is the holder of the appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under the Aircrew Regulation.