Fresh Grade 3 Instructor with $120,000 debt. Driving street sweepers...

[driftking92]

This is going to be depressing but looking for help on whether my situation is normal or not and what to do.

I finished all of my training at Moorabbin (CPL, IR, ATPL) under VET FEE HELP in early 2019. I was told early to mid last year by the school that I should get an instructor rating because the industry will need more instructors (during COVID) then any other type of pilot. So I signed up and did the Instructor rating (VET FEE HELP) with the same school which was alot of work. I finished and of our entire group (11 of us including me), they only hired ONE person. The rest of us have been desperately hunting around Moorabbin and Essendon with no luck whatsoever. Four of us in the group have even road tripped (one car, 4 dudes) out to aerodromes in Victoria trying to get a G3 job. Almost all of them are saying that "we don't hire instructors trained by other schools". This came at a huge shock to me as I was under the belief that an instructor rating is a standardised course across Australia.

Nobody in our group, except one girl, managed to get a job with the same school that we did our IR with.

Is this normal? We feel like we've wasted $30,000 each and being misled by the school... We all finished late last year and I've been desperate to find ANY work which adds another problem. I am "overqualified"!! I applied to some corporate jobs and a few of the HR people have told me that I am too qualified for the role! Last week, I started driving street sweepers on a temporary 6 month contract to try and not fall into a complete depression. One guy in our group is already seeing a psychologist for anxiety as a result of this situation... he has 2 young kids and feels like he has let his family down.

Does anyone have any experience with instructor jobs and the mess we are in? I mean, there is something seriously wrong with this system where instructors are only hired by the school that trained them? Really?

Thanks for reading and any input will be useful...

[tail wheel]

We would normally move this post to the "Newbie and Flying Training Advice" thread and it is a repetitious subject, having previously been aired dozens of times in recent years. There is also a similar thread active in this forum in respect to "going north seeking employment". I suspect in general that too may be a futile solution in the current employment market.

In the current pilot employment market, there is no solution to driftking92's dilemma. The GA industry has been progressively destroyed over many years, removing the best training ground for newly graduated CPLs. The Covid pandemic, with so many highly qualified and experienced airline pilots on stand down, furlough or leave without pay, will deny employment and career avenues to most newly graduated CPL's for many years.

I seriously doubt any here can make constructive aviation related suggestions to driftking92, however I am hoping that other hopeful wannabes will read this thread and not be sucked in by the ludicrous assurances being given by some (but not all) flying training establishments. Obtain an assurance of some type of Instructor employment post course completion, or go elsewhere.

The cold, hard facts are that there are negligible jobs available to fresh CPL graduates, a situation which is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

[Global Aviator]

There are 777 drivers pulling beers, 737 drivers working in Covid hotels, 320 drivers..........

Yes it is tough times but, DO NOT DESPAIR. Stay current, keep networking and DO NOT GIVE UP.

30 years ago I couldn’t tell you how many knock backs and no’s I got whilst beating the street as a freshly minted CPL. It was a tough time, constantly dejected, depressed, told by operators it was my own fault, oh it goes on. However I did not give up. Scored a job flying out bush and never looked back. Had a varied career.

Leady is correct to a point, however there are jobs, yes highly sought after and hard to get, however they are out there.

The most important thing is DO NOT GIVE UP. If it takes professional counselling to achieve this, then do it. There is no shame in assisting your mental health. I am not ashamed to admit I have talked to a mental health professional in the past.

[Checkboard]

I mean, there is something seriously wrong with this system where instructors are only hired by the school that trained them? Really?
The simple fact is that schools know that jobs are scarce, and highly valued. They also know that they make quite a bit of money from an Instructor Rating. If they have a job position available, they know that they can use that to sell an Instructor Rating, and thus make a bit of cash from that job offer. That's why they see giving that job to someone who already has an Instructor Rating (and no experience, so no value to add in the form of training or testing approvals) as a missed opportunity for them to sell a rating course.

So, yes, your Instructor Rating is a standardised rating. But you're not going to get a job at any place that offers Instructor Rating courses, unless there's a bit of a boom.

And yes, it's always been that way - I did my rating back in 1989, and it was pretty well known then that you didn't do a rating without an offer to work (even if only as a casual) at the end of it. Your school should have known that.

[Squawk7700]

During Covid I employed a guy on Airtasker to help with a garden job. He was an international 777 pilot. It’s tough for everyone. Expectations need to be aligned, hopefully temporarily. If you’ve got a vet fee loan, be thankful that it’s not a bank loan or from a loan shark as you’ve ultimately got no rush to pay it back again.

[engine out]

Schools will generally only hire Grade 3 instructors they’ve trained themselves as you are a known commodity. Although it is standardised you know the way they like it done and how there system works. Once you’ve got experience as an instructor moving schools is generally easier. Occasionally you will get lucky and find smaller schools that need an instructor, but again they often have connections with other schools that they like to get there instructors from. Although the school hasn’t done the right thing by you all, did you ever ask the question about the need for 11 new instructors where you were? All you can do is keep going in and asking if there is work, networking and trying other schools.

[Global Aviator]

There was a post supporting mental health and using professionals. It seems to have disappeared???

[KRviator]

It was mine. I self-deleted it as I thought I could do a bit better without the attempt at being funny regarding the suggestions to "get an MR ticket" etc. Probably would have been better to edit it, as at least that wouldn't have confused the topic reply notification emails though!

(Almost) reproduced below:

If it takes professional counselling to achieve this, then do it. There is no shame in assisting your mental health. I am not ashamed to admit I have talked to a mental health professional in the past.Without a doubt that is the single best bit of advice I've seen given on PPRuNe in many years.

As someone who gave up flying for a career to pursue another passion, it took another, external, view to make me see it wasn't the end of the world. As it turned out, the new career has given me the opportunity to build an RV-9 that I now fly for fun. I've since used the services of professional psychs and the company Employee Assistance Programs a couple of times over the years. I'm not advocating you pull the pin, but rather don't be afraid or ashamed to ask for help if you need it, to get you in the right headspace.

You're not the first, and won't be the last either.

[Clare Prop]

Sadly it is normal, you have been scammed and the VET money, as well as the hint of maybe a job at the end of it, has made it really easy for them.

When will the government stop facilitating these scams with taxpayers money?

[Middle.Marker]

Written in the exact same style as your other posts Petra 👏🏻

[Roj approved]

Post a picture of the cockpit of your street sweeper. It might be as cool as the C209NG set up!!

[KRviator]

Post a picture of the cockpit of your street sweeper. It might be as cool as the C209NG set up!!Not my current steed, but 'close enough'. The XRN Locomotive cab, in 360*. (https://www.pano.ie/panoramas/misc/c44aci_locomotive?startactions=lookat(12,25,85,0.35,0);) I've yet to fly anything with a microwave & kettle within arms reach! :}

[SOPS]

Not my current steed, but 'close enough'. The XRN Locomotive cab, in 360*. (https://www.pano.ie/panoramas/misc/c44aci_locomotive?startactions=lookat(12,25,85,0.35,0);) I've yet to fly anything with a microwave & kettle within arms reach! :}
I’m jealous.. mine does not have a microwave!!

[SCPL_1988]

Its always been revolting to see Australian Flight Schools engage in the incestious process of
claiming, that they only hire instructors they train. When hiring is low, then you run a real chance of
paying out tens of thousands of dollars and not getting a job.

Then it seems that the very worst personalities are the ones who are able to play survivor and get to be hired
only to quit at the first better job. Its also a form of indentured slavery, once you start, you can't just quit when another job
comes up, you need those first solo's , you need the recommendations etc.

If you are thinking about doing an instructor rating, start looking at all your options, especially overseas
where you may be better off doing a foreign instructor rating first on a "student" visa, that gives you a work permit
right as part of the process. That at least will give you some adventure and more options if you want to go back
to the aviation hell called Australia.

[cattletruck]

When there is a downturn it's usually bad for both employees and employers (who often have more to lose). Rather than playing the mental health card because your expectations were not met, take it on the chin and do something else while keeping a finger in the industry - if you are still keen. Get to know some of your potential future employers by offering to do some of the less glamorous work part-time for minimum pay - also called networking. When things pick up again the first through into the empty flying seats will often be those that are known to the company. This is a universal subject which isn't taught at university, TAFE or college.

[gulliBell]

...Nobody in our group, except one girl, managed to get a job with the same school that we did our IR with...


And what did she have that the guys didn't have to land her the only job?

[Centaurus]

As a 50 year old was retrenched from a 737 overseas airline many years ago. Sat the written aptitude test at Moonee Ponds Junction to be a motor bike Postman. Easy test - couldn't miss. Even had my own Honda 50 motor bike so current in command on type

. Received a letter back say sorry chum - you failed the aptitude test. Became a taxi driver and learned all about the red light districts. No aptitude test required. Life's rich tapestry and all that jazz

[vee1-rotate]

And what did she have that the guys didn't have to land her the only job?

Was about to say the same thing. What a surprise!

[Checkboard]

And what did she have that the guys didn't have to land her the only job?
Was about to say the same thing. What a surprise!
She probably was good at the job, and lacked a sexist chip on her shoulder.

[Squawk7700]

In days gone by before this vet fee help stiff even existed, pilots would take out loans from the bank or elsewhere. If they didn’t get a flying job straight away, they worked hard elsewhere to pay off the debt. Nowadays with these no-interest government loans, students keep moving from one vocation to the next and paying it off never becomes a focus, so this “I’ve got a $120k debt” card, is not anything like what it used to be.

[Checkboard]

As an Australian tax payer - perhaps it's my $120k debt, not theirs... :sad:

[vee1-rotate]

She probably was good at the job, and lacked a sexist chip on her shoulder.

Oh 100% that's what it was :eyeroll:

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Bloody Chinese Virus...

driftking92 - Hang in there, you are not alone. The reality is that the aviation industry has been decimated. The inertia of the recovery will be exponentially longer than the short term it took to destroy commercial aviation. There WILL be a recovery, of that, I am certain. How am I certain? Vaccines are being distributed, (albeit slowly), there is nothing else we, as humans can do now to fight the virus. People will travel again, it is just the time frame, that is uncertain. As for work, well done on getting a job. About 2500 yes, 2 and a half thousand, of my colleagues in EK were made redundant, or given 12 months unpaid leave. It has taken 6 months for some of them to find work (non aviation related). When I came back to Oz, I did my Multi eng instructor rating, (I was already a lapsed gr 2), and while I was at the flying school, I was surprised at how many young men and women were doing their Commercial training. The reality is, the market is now flooded with highly experienced pilots. This is not your fault, so, try to look on the bright side, you have your instructor rating, you have work. Eventually, the market will stabilise, airlines, will expand as the post covid recovery gets underway, and you will be ready to dust off your rating and begin the upward ladder climb again. I assume you are a 92 vintage, if so you have decades of fulfilling flying ahead of you. Hang in there mate.

[Ixixly]

And what did she have that the guys didn't have to land her the only job?

Timing? Luck? Experience? A particular personality? It could be anything so how about we don't go down that route automatically?

[ersa]

We have a 777 captain , pumping fuel around a GA airport in QLD 🤔

[Roj approved]

We have a 777 captain , pumping fuel around a GA airport in QLD 🤔

I had CX A350 pilot working as a Contact Tracer for the NSW Government call me recently.

It's all about putting food on the table

[gulliBell]

..Thanks for reading and any input will be useful...

Here's telling you straight. You won't get a flying job any time soon. One in your class did, so good luck to her. When you eventually do get an entry flying job it won't pay much, and paying off the training loan will eat into whatever income you make.

Your here and now option is this. Learn a trade. For example, roof tilers are getting $1000+ per day, and as far as I know you don't need to complete a three year apprenticeship for that. You will never earn $1,000/day as a flight instructor in GA. You might find that sort of money with 20+ years experience as a pilot. In the meantime, laying roof tiles and setting ridge caps will earn you good money.

[Pastor of Muppets]

Count yourself lucky that someone or some government would loan you 120k. In my day we had to work and pay up front for licences.
If it’s not 89, it’s the GFC or it’s COVID.
Be a victim or be ready WHEN it turns........

[lucille]

This is going to be depressing but looking for help on whether my situation is normal or not and what to do.

...

1) Totally normal. There has nearly always been a gross oversupply of pilots in Australia.

2) Apart from not allowing yourself to feel victimised and sorry for yourself, there are many, many options. None of them perfect. Decide on a course of action which suits you best. Never get locked into the idea of not leaving Essendon or Melbourne or Victoria or Australia. The best advice I can offer is to look everywhere in the world and I mean everywhere. There is nothing to fear. Really!. Covid travel restrictions will eventually lift, start looking now.

Meantime, your street sweeper gig almost certainly pays more than a bare bones instructor or charter pilot plus they treat you with more respect and dignity than you’ll get with most flying jobs.

[deja vu]

Not my current steed, but 'close enough'. The XRN Locomotive cab, in 360*. (https://www.pano.ie/panoramas/misc/c44aci_locomotive?startactions=lookat(12,25,85,0.35,0);) I've yet to fly anything with a microwave & kettle within arms reach! :}KRviator, definitely the smartest pilot in Australia. Looking for any Cabin Crew?

[krismiler]

I know a CX A350 Captain driving a combine harvester and there is even a Facebook group, Pilots4Harvest2020 for those looking for work in the agricultural sector.

There are QF A380 pilots driving buses. https://simpleflying.com/qantas-pilots-swap-a380s-for-buses/

Aviation will recover over the next few years, hang in there.

[kingRB]

Count yourself lucky that someone or some government would loan you 120k. In my day we had to work and pay up front for licences.
If it’s not 89, it’s the GFC or it’s COVID.
Be a victim or be ready WHEN it turns........

100%

Current generations have NFI how good they have it. Something earned always has more value than something given. Separates the wheat from the chaff and all that....

[megan]

Current generations have NFI how good they have itMade me think of all those lads at the end of WWII who knew nothing except how to fly and were competing for the few cockpit jobs available.

[Pinky the pilot]

Made me think of all those lads at the end of WWII who knew nothing except how to fly and were competing for the few cockpit jobs available.

Megan; That comment made me think of my Late Father's experience at Demob, of which he told me a few times over the years
As he passed down a line going through the final procedures for leaving the RAAF in around mid '46 there were a few Men standing right at the end of the queue asking each Pilot if they wanted 'a career in the Airlines.'

Dad said that he was thinking about it but abruptly changed his mind when the bloke immediately ahead of him replied to the questioner and in a loud voice, "Shove it up your a**e!":eek:

Dad later often wondered if he should have taken up the offer.:hmm:

Aparrently the bloke in question had had more than enough of flying. Dad seemed to remember that he had a few 'gongs' on his uniform.

[deja vu]

What to do, what to do? Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why people don't ask these questions before spending $120,000 of other people's money? Sure I understand the vision of sitting up front of a big shiny jet trumps the reality that very few ever make it to that, together with flying schools with management trained in the used car industry. Biggest culprit by far is any government that is a willing participant in such a ludicrous scheme for an industry that can't properly and fairly employ its current crop of pilots.

Only redeeming fact is by the time these loans are paid back $120,000 won't buy you a good family holiday

[deja vu]

Megan; That comment made me think of my Late Father's experience at Demob, of which he told me a few times over the years
As he passed down a line going through the final procedures for leaving the RAAF in around mid '46 there were a few Men standing right at the end of the queue asking each Pilot if they wanted 'a career in the Airlines.'

Dad said that he was thinking about it but abruptly changed his mind when the bloke immediately ahead of him replied to the questioner and in a loud voice, "Shove it up your a**e!":eek:

Dad later often wondered if he should have taken up the offer.:hmm:

Aparrently the bloke in question had had more than enough of flying. Dad seemed to remember that he had a few 'gongs' on his uniform.

My Dad aged 17 decided he wanted to be a pilot and work for an airline here in Australia. It was 1936 and as my Grandfather, a merchant seaman, was away at sea so my Grandmother went to talk about this with her bank manager, all knowing in those days were the bank managers. He apparently told my Grandmother there was no future in aviation and it was just a passing fad so no, he couldn't be a pilot. Maybe the bank manager was right about aviation.

[KRUSTY 34]

Made me think of all those lads at the end of WWII who knew nothing except how to fly and were competing for the few cockpit jobs available.

Yep. And most of them never flew again. Some sickened by the trauma of war, but many pragmatically moved on to other careers.

[megan]

Aparrently the bloke in question had had more than enough of flying. Dad seemed to remember that he had a few 'gongs' on his uniformGongs didn't come cheap, so he'd have a wealth of stories, more than likely some which he wished he couldn't remember. There was a reason for the limit on the number of missions for bomber crew, for example, RAF 46% killed. Understand his reaction.

[Sprite]

Timing? Luck? Experience? A particular personality? It could be anything so how about we don't go down that route automatically?

Funny how it’s always the people who are least successful who are the sexist ones. If someone think as woman is employed in aviation simply because they are a woman, they need to take a look at themselves. It’s way harder for females.

[Clare Prop]

What to do, what to do? Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why people don't ask these questions before spending $120,000 of other people's money? Sure I understand the vision of sitting up front of a big shiny jet trumps the reality that very few ever make it to that, together with flying schools with management trained in the used car industry. Biggest culprit by far is any government that is a willing participant in such a ludicrous scheme for an industry that can't properly and fairly employ its current crop of pilots.

Only redeeming fact is by the time these loans are paid back $120,000 won't buy you a good family holiday


I've been saying this for years. Then you see the video of the sickening way McCormack sang the praises of the likes of NK and you can see why pollies are allowing this rort to continue, there must be something in it for them. Rather than moan on Pprune, we should take this to our local Fed MP, however it's both sides that have been involved in keeping this gravy train going so don't expect they are going to stop it any time soon.

[Cop_that]

"If someone think as woman is employed in aviation simply because they are a woman, they need to take a look at themselves. It’s way harder for females."

If you think it's "way harder for females" I think you're probably the one that needs to open your eyes and take a look around at how much of a hand you get with 50/50 quotas. Maybe she did get the job out of 11 males because she was the best, but it didn't seem like it was "way harder for her" to get a job...

[4forward8back]

If you think it's "way harder for females" I think you're probably the one that needs to open your eyes and take a look around at how much of a hand you get with 50/50 quotas.
It might be worth thinking about why quotas are needed in the first place.

[Clare Prop]

I' ve been employed in aviation for over 30 years and it has never been way harder for females in my experience to get the job, what is different is having to put up with stupid sexist remarks from people who think it is because we are all slags who did someone a favour because we get a job that they thought they were entitled to....

[Cop_that]

It might be worth thinking about why quotas are needed in the first place.

You’re right - they’re not. Your gender is completely irrelevant in determining whether or not you’re capable.

[4forward8back]

You’re right - they’re not. Your gender is completely irrelevant in determining whether or not you’re capable.
Then why are there so few women in aviation?

[Squawk7700]

Then why are there so few women in aviation?

Is that a trick question?

Is it because not as many women are interested in aviation perhaps?

[Stationair8]

No, it’s because they are chained to the kitchen sink and looking after the kids!

[Ixixly]

Is that a trick question?

Is it because not as many women are interested in aviation perhaps?

I will say quite clearly I don't agree with having a quota, it undermines the accomplishment of getting a position as there will always be people saying that it was only because of a quota and you'll probably always wonder yourself to some degree BUT at the same time, one reason some don't think of a pursuing a particular career is that they simply can't see themselves in it, they lack role models so there definitely needs to be a push to have more Women in Aviation so those that want to aren't deterred just because of the optics of it. They should be deterred for the same reasons as the rest of us eventually come to realise, poor conditions, difficult progression, and the rise of automation :}

Also in saying that I'll also say quite clearly that Women in Aviation often do have it more difficult, I have very good friends that are some of the most capable Aviators I've had the pleasure to meet that have been kept down and forced to work harder and to more ridiculous standards than their Male counterparts simply because there are still those at the top who still have the "Boys Club" attitude. As others have said, your gender SHOULD be completely irrelevant to whether you can do the job or not and whether you get the job or not but the fact is that there are a lot of those at the top of the food chain that make these decisions who don't look at it this way so here we are. I'd implore anyone involved in Check and Training that sees any attitudes like this to call it out because it isn't happening enough right now. I've heard plenty of stories of trainees being failed by a checky only to have the next one not understand why they failed them at all except for the fact that they actually do know why but don't speak up on it.

I'll also say I've seen the opposite side with some Women approaching Aviation with a giant chip on their shoulder born of no real experience/reason that makes them very difficult to work with and is the reason they don't progress as fast as others but they'll play the Woman card as the reason why when we all know that isn't true. Don't be this person either, the fact is I believe that myself and the vast majority of my male counterparts want to see you succeed on your own merits as much as you do.

All this to say that gender shouldn't matter, but it still does make a difference and we should all be making sure that any capable Aviator is never restricted from progressing due to crappy attitudes from those making these decisions. Those that already know this will know, those that don't will hopefully read this and be a bit more on the lookout for it in the future and willing to do something about it.

[Cop_that]

Then why are there so few women in aviation?

Do you honestly believe its because of some oppressive sexist culture that exists and that all men are out there to hold you back? Would that be the same reason you don’t see many males in nursing roles or do you have another theory for that exact same scenario of a position with varying amounts of male / female ratios..

Stop being a professional victim. No one cares you’re a woman. Men aren’t out to hold you back. Nothing will stop you from getting to where you want to be if you’re capable and work hard at what you do. Everyone has had a gut full of the victim mentality and people throwing their toys out of the cot when they don’t get something by saying it’s because they’re a woman.

[dr dre]

I' ve been employed in aviation for over 30 years and it has never been way harder for females in my experience to get the job, what is different is having to put up with stupid sexist remarks from people who think it is because we are all slags who did someone a favour because we get a job that they thought they were entitled to....

Unfortunately I’ve heard that attitude far too much. The good thing is it shows that for the most part airline recruiting systems work. Those who are generally of the type who would publicly sook about a female pilot taking a job they thought they were entitled to don’t have the self awareness or temperament to make a good pilot.

When there’s an incident involving a female pilot I always hear “Quota hire/only got her job because of her gender” etc.

Whenever there’s an incident involving a male pilot I never hear the same comments, it’s always specific to that male pilot only and not indicative of all male pilots.

[Climb150]

When was the last time you heard of a woman pilot getting rejected by an airline? I am curious as I don't know of any.
​​​​​​
The fact that every female pilot I know has never got a rejection letter is proof either all women pilots are very gifted or airline HR depts are very biased towards recruiting women.

[cattletruck]

Life is not fair and you make your own luck.

I think we should call upon our street sweeping qualified pilot to either get this thread out of the gutter or brush it down the drain.

[josephfeatherweight]

Then why are there so few women in aviation?
Why are there so few men in nursing?
Why are there so few men in primary teaching?

[runway16]

So few in basic teaching? They are afraid about get accused of being a child molester. Same with Scouting.

[Mach1Muppet]

I hate to become political, but I think I know of the certain female in question, she has a good work ethic and is indeed dedicated. With the way I remember her I find it hard to believe they gave her the job based on gender.

[krismiler]

With male applicants vastly outnumbering female ones for pilot jobs, it is much more likely that a suitable female will find herself employed as the company can easily knock back 90% of male applicants but cannot knock back female ones at the same rate or they wouldn't have any women pilots.

An operator with a 100% male pilot group which had female pilots apply but had rejected them could face accusations of discrimination, and they know this, hence the acceptance rate for female applicants will be much higher than for males as they need to be represented in the workforce.

Better still, be an openly gay female from an ethnic minority, speaking English as a second language and have a disability. It ticks more boxes than an aeronautical engineering degree and experience as a military test pilot.

[umop apisdn]

Daddy daddy can I be a pilot like you?

Don't do it, it's full of salty guys who will get all butthurt when you get hired before then because of something you can't change.

[Squawk7700]

When I was at a certain training facility there was an African lady, a lovely girl. She was doing well and the powers to be got wind of her coming through, she was tall, fit and attractive. They started taking photos of her, started making promotional videos around her, interviews and the like. It was shaping up to be the best PR activity and they loved it, but unfortunately she bombed out. I was never really sure why, she just wasn’t able to finish for some reason. Their marketing team went into crisis mode soon after as they had put so much effort and money into their new campaign. Serves them right for trying to cash in on her.

[Lookleft]

I don't know what you are all on about. Every time I go flying I hear plenty of woman involved in aviation on the radio. Its the voice of ATC!. Why? Probably it offers a more defined career path, job security and good pay. Even the cadet programs only attract a small percentage of female applicants usually around 5% which is about the ratio in most airlines. Despite the reality the job of pilot is still portrayed as one of glamour and respect. I don't see a push to have more females on the ramp yet there are plenty employed in the cabin cleaning role. Maybe airline recruiting is sexist but only in the less public roles.

[krismiler]

It was shaping up to be the best PR activity and they loved it​​​​​​

Any airline which employs women or ethnic minorities pushes them to the front when TV cameras are involved. British Airways had a black female engineer doing the turnaround on a B787, QF show women doing delivery flights. Best of all is a black female Captain with a white male F/O, it's even better than a black female F/O as it shows a shift in the power balance.

We have some very attractive young ladies flying for us, who seem to feature quite heavily in any publicity released by the airline.

[LostWanderer]

I know a CX A350 Captain driving a combine harvester and there is even a Facebook group, Pilots4Harvest2020 for those looking for work in the agricultural sector.

There are QF A380 pilots driving buses. https://simpleflying.com/qantas-pilots-swap-a380s-for-buses/

Aviation will recover over the next few years, hang in there.

Yep, I have been driving for a ride share mob to make ends meet. Still a long ways before we are all back in "the office" again. I have a funny suspicion COVID hasn't played its final hands yet.

It will be interesting to see how many pilots world wide either can't or don't want to return to the industry when things eventually do turn around again. I'd dare say a lot will find or have already found good careers outside of aviation and will never come back. I already know of two personally who plan to stick with their COVID career changes.

The sad part is for the newcomers craving that first airline gig, the wait is likely going to be a very very long one for most.

[krismiler]

With so few people training for licences since COVID-19 started, and so many leaving the profession, there wil be a bubble effect which will take years to work through the system and might benefit someone who’s currently in high school.

With what will probably be a 2 - 5 year period of very few new CPLs being issued, once the food chain is moving normally there will be very few junior pilots coming in at the bottom to replace those on the ladder stepping up. This shortage will progress through the levels as the years go by and someone in the right place at the right time could ride the wave of having very little competition as he goes through the usual stages of advancement from first job to jet commander.

[The Love Doctor]

With so few people training for licences since COVID-19 started, and so many leaving the profession, there wil be a bubble effect which will take years to work through the system and might benefit someone who’s currently in high school.

With what will probably be a 2 - 5 year period of very few new CPLs being issued, once the food chain is moving normally there will be very few junior pilots coming in at the bottom to replace those on the ladder stepping up. This shortage will progress through the levels as the years go by and someone in the right place at the right time could ride the wave of having very little competition as he goes through the usual stages of advancement from first job to jet commander.
I would guess you work at a flying school

[machtuk]

In the not too distant future a heterosexual male or female will be in the minority in any job position!
The alphabet used to have 26 letters in it, I'm waiting for that number to expand!
Ive known a few career female plane drivers, most moved on to more maternal duties.
There will always be more males in the cockpit, just the wway it was just the way it will always be!

[Clare Prop]

With so few people training for licences since COVID-19 started, and so many leaving the profession, there wil be a bubble effect which will take years to work through the system and might benefit someone who’s currently in high school.

With what will probably be a 2 - 5 year period of very few new CPLs being issued, once the food chain is moving normally there will be very few junior pilots coming in at the bottom to replace those on the ladder stepping up. This shortage will progress through the levels as the years go by and someone in the right place at the right time could ride the wave of having very little competition as he goes through the usual stages of advancement from first job to jet commander.


In my 30 years in this industry there has never been a shortage of junior CPLs at the bottom. I don't believe there ever will be. There are plenty of CPL wannabees doing training here so why would there be fewer CPLs being issued?

It's this sort of thing that leaves people like the OP in the place they find themselves.

Oh and there are women coming through the system too, so get used to it!

[krismiler]

Pilot employment is and has always been highly cyclical, feast or famine. COVID 19 is a major event comparable to a large scale war and is resulting in a major and ongoing shake up. At present there are no jobs for new CPL holders and unlikely to be for the foreseeable future, it makes no sense to train at the moment. Pilots are leaving the profession in large numbers, mostly not through choice and many will be unwilling or unable to return to aviation. The march of time continues and people don't stop turning 65 and losing their licence.

The eventual rebound will mean that some people will be in a good position if their qualifications and experience match the demand at that time, which will be years in the future. Time to command can vary from 5 to 20 years, if you joined Virgin Blue at the start when Ansett collapsed, upgrades in 2 years weren't uncommon. However if you joined a few years later you'd be sitting behind Captains in their late 30s/early 40s who wouldn't be retiring for a couple of decades.

[DUXNUTZ]

VET Fee Help coming back to bite, go
figure....

Life is tough and at times unfair. Go door knock at every airport if that’s what it takes.

Remember the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Be persistent and eventually a door will open.