Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force - part of RAF?

[megan]

A question being asked on the History & Nostalgia site with no definitive answer.

Any RAF chap, or others, able to come up with an insightful answer?

Reading of the below RAF Museum document doesn't make it clear, other than reference to "The unit was affiliated to No 601 Sqn RAuxAF in 1954. Standards were checked annually by the Central Flying School’s examiners". One asks what do they mean by "affiliated to 601"? I would have thought being checked by CFS and having RAF personnel posted to the unit would have meant some formal connection ie the unit would lie within a chain of command. Or would the RAF personnel be regarded as on exchange?

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-29A-Seminar-Reserve-Auxiliary-Forces.pdf

Thanks all.

[pr00ne]

Wasn't it a department of the Hong Kong Government? Surely that is why RAF officers were on loan or seconded service, if it was part of the RAF wouldn't they have just been posted?

[chopper2004]

As a kid flying to HK for family Xmas here and there and odd wedding etc in the 80s, remember the SA366C Dauohins then early 90s the Sikorsky S-76A and S-70C Blackhawk (now with Firehawk Helicopters in Fl) Then funnily enough 2 decades ago attended Le Bourget and came across first then Eurocopter AS332L2 (my pics below) .

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/88a762ec_57d9_492b_afd1_6a849c46b4c2_3b2452cac5656e5a9790cd7 6cf69b2958f2c697b.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/b8d3c5ac_49bb_48e2_baa2_6ebbc5b5040f_9c3ca5e244af82768019193 041f6a38e690a8fde.jpeg

Two years ago popped into North Weald and came across former RHKAAF Bulldog


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/a188d492_e8f4_4894_b9f9_3f7de1c520b2_5fd81bf210a43fae28f282f ecc3b9a6b7a62084b.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/7523aff3_5e6e_43cb_a93e_bffc5a0ab233_0513d0d8749a8a55f2eaca2 baf4ccbdaaccf5e70.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/c0903750_257e_4fa3_b201_55361b2cb1db_11ed4b5aa10daebf5fa39f4 cfd8c73d8647d5f92.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/3ad15862_853b_4f3d_91c2_2a0374383515_4b26f93b3228a6651d8dc69 5797a068f4ec8e6c1.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/747a4e81_bb03_4669_90f0_7dd15c5d26e5_db747a9618b275706b65b01 d77ffaabf77bbd91b.jpeg

cheers

[megan]

Question answered by Top West in History & Nostalgia.

https://oelawhk.lib.hku.hk/items/show/2018

[WIDN62]

Megan,

An answer to your comment about CFS. I don't know the current state of affairs, but in the past they have checked, by invitation, a number of overseas Air Forces. Ones I can recall were Hong Kong, Oman, Malaysia and Jordan. They often took along a CFS Agent from the transport fleet to check the day to day operation of, for example, the C130s in Malaysia rather than just looking at the training units.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Widening the thread creep: you can add the Royal Brunei Air Force to WIDN62's list

[212man]

Widening the thread creep: you can add the Royal Brunei Air Force to WIDN62's list
who also have loan service officers embedded within.

[Tankertrashnav]

Cant help with the question unfortunately but the thread has brought back memories of flying with the HKAAF when I was at Kai Tak in 68- 69. At the time they operated a couple of Alouette 3s and some Austers. I managed to go flying on several occasions, usually on the Austers, which were great fun. On Sunday mornings they did a "hearts and minds" service, delivering bundles of newspapers to remote villages in the New Territories. On one occasion, approaching a coastal village from the landward side I was a little late releasing my bundle from the doorway, and saw it splash down in the sea about 30 yards from the shore. The last we saw the locals were wading out to retrieve it - I wonder if they ever got the papers dried out.

I seem to recall there were two regular RAF officers attached to the unit - one each on the rotary and fixed wing sides. The rest of the chaps were locally employed, mainly European, but their star pilot was one Sqn Ldr Danny Cheung, AFC, whose award had come after a helicopter rescue, the details of which I have forgotten.

[NutLoose]

G-Hong and G-Kong were the Slingsby that came back to the UK from Hong Kong and will operate by Babcock for RAF training, this aircraft were originally in the Hong Kong scheme white and red but were repainted by Badcock into the yellow.
Slingsby pointed out that the fibreglass wasn’t suitable on the aircraft to have yellow paint so the aircraft came back into the paint shop to have the original scheme re applied, but as they appear to be in yellow now it must be assumed that they will then cleared later on to carry the yellow paint scheme.
When they came to repaint them, it was found the yellow hadn’t adhered to the wing properly and was literally peeled off, resulting in the paint company actually providing the replacement paint for free.
It was apparently is to do with the temperature of the fibreglass under the Sun in the critical wing root area, hence they had a temperature gauge in the cockpit.

[ShyTorque]

I heard how one of those aircraft ended up in a flat spin over the sea during a HK training sortie. The pilot instructor eventually recovered it by using power, but at low altitude.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

212man,

I know - I was one of them :sad:, Oman too :ok:. CFS(H) visits were good value in both locations, I think their examiners found the visits educational as well, so mutually beneficial.

[SLXOwft]

The Ordinance under which the RHKAAF operated is available online. From which it would appear its existence was independant of the RAF, it existed under the authority of HM Governor. However, except where the ordinance specified to the contrary, the Air Force Act and QRRAF applied. Perhaps unsurprisingly, "Nothing in this section shall be deemed to authorize an officer of the Force to exercise any powers of punishment over members of Her Majesty's regular forces."

However, if 'called out' it would be under the operational command of the Service Commander, normally the (RAF) AOC Hong Kong.

Interestingly there was no nationality restriction on service.

https://oelawhk.lib.hku.hk/items/show/2828


CONSTITUTION AND FUNCTIONS OF FORCE

3. (1) The Governor may raise and maintain a force to be known as the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force.
(2) The expenses of raising and maintaining the Force shall be met from moneys provided by the Legislative Council.
(3) The Force shall be composed of officers and members who shall be--
(a) persons employed on the permanent uniformed staff of the Force;
(b) persons enlisted in the Force as volunteers,

(...)
4. The Force shall be---
(a) under the supreme command of the Governor..
(b) when called out, under the operational command of the Service Commander, who shall be the officer for the time being discharging the duties of Air or other Officer Commanding. Royal Air Force,
Hong Kong; and
(c)under the executive command of the Commanding Officer, who shall be responsible to the Service Commander and ultimately to the Governor for such matters as may be prescribed.
5. (1) A person of any nationality may hold a commission.
(2) An officer shall be commissioned by the Governor, on the recommendation of the Commanding Officer, and no commission shall be deemed to be vacated by the death or retirement from office of the Governor by whom it was granted.

6. (1) The Governor may enlist a person of any nationality as a volunteer in the Force.

[212man]

212man,

I know - I was one of them :sad:, Oman too :ok:. CFS(H) visits were good value in both locations, I think their examiners found the visits educational as well, so mutually beneficial.
I thought so. Superficially a very boring and restricted place, but in reality plenty going on behind the scenes, both in Bandar and visiting the UK Garrison in Seria (not sure if C Flight or 7 Flight when you were there?)

[Less Hair]

Are there any similar units left anywhere? How about Gibraltar, Falklands, Ascension, Cyprus or Diego Garcia?

[oldbeefer]

In addition to CFS(H) visits I made to the previously mentioned places, I also made a couple of trips to Qatar and Bangladesh. Flying down the Ganges in a Chinese built Mil 18 was one of the more unusual flights I had!

[Davef68]

As the OP in nostalgia, thank you for posting here. I think that definitively answers the question.

As far as I know, there are no similar flying units these days,(the Falkland Islands Government Air Service is basically an airline, with a small MP role). but there are several ground defence units ( e.g. Royal Bermuda Regiment, Turks & Cacos Regiment, Cayman Regiment, Falklands Defence Force), none of them have an air component.

[Davef68]

PS if anyone has any pictures, feel free to share!!

[RHKAAF]

When I joined the RHKAAF in 1983 there was only one QHI seconded from the RAF. Of the contract staff there were 3 fixed wing and 2 heli pilots. Most of the aircrew were volunteers . CFS came out each year to do some check flights and run their eye over our operations. More contract staff were taken on over the years until the HK GFS was formed and localisation took off in a big way, Unfortunately, the volunteer element disappeared completely. Visit the GFS site to see today's set up and aircraft.

[Barksdale Boy]

RHKAAF

Are you KH?

[LastStandards]

Falkland Islands Government Air Service is basically an airline, with a small MP role

(Pruned for brevity) indeed, FIGAS is part of the civilian population on the islands, generally crewed by islanders who've been sponsored on cadetship schemes, with the odd contractor to cover summer seasons. A pleasantly professional bunch of operators too, running nicely to general AOC standards in quite varying conditions.

[idle stop]

I was fortunate to be invited by some of my old students from Bristow days to spend a morning at HKGFS this time 2 years ago. Great setup, superb airraft and equipment. Still the odd expat on strength. My very best wishes to them all.

[ACW342]

I was fortunate enough to have been posted to Kai Tak Ops in '73. One of the pleasures of that posting, other than my son being born in BMH Kowloon, was being able to cadge trips with the RHKAAF (known to us as the Honkey Tonks) like TTN I managed deliver quite a few newspapers around the NT and the islands in the Alouettes. My "bomb aimer" capabilities appear to have been somewhat better than TTN as all mine arrived dry. I wonder though, if TTNs experience led to the papers being sealed in plastic bags just in case of a repeat. My favourite memory though was the 5 1/2 hours in the BN islander doing civil Air Traffic Controller training
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0004_418aeba907057026f041483faf49796149933e0d.jpg
This particular Islander, IIRC was fitted with extra fuel tanks in order to have a SAR capability, with, again IIRC 13 hrs.endurance. Sadly I can't remember the name of the pilot. He was a Flt. Lt. RAF and was so laid back he was almost supine. That of course explains as to how i was allowed over 4 hours on the controls and giving the Controllers near heart attacks as I tried my hand at flying PARs. Unfortunately I would have drowned at least three times, trying to land on the centreline approach lighting that sticks out into the harbour. The photo below shows a properly flown approach while I took some photographs. We're about to pass through the Lei Yue Mun gap. Notice the fairly sheer high ground on the right. When doing a PDR it was great fun to pull the left throttle and turn in towards the high ground simulating a left engine failure. The voice of the controller under training usually went up at least three octaves as he desperately instructed us to turn back on track and climb.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0097_24ecf47412a832c62506de3eb35ef7b28f592e75.jpg
Below is a Cathay Pacific 707 on departure, going through the afore mentioned gap with a good view of the high ground. The CV panel was used to eject the pilots apple apple after lunch was had from box provided.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0013_ad42551ac758a4c241ca4b8d342e307ccdeb207a.jpg

The Austers that TTN mentioned had been replaced by Musketeers when I was there. Their main job, according to the crews was to provide ridge hopping recce information for the current garrison when they came forward to throw the PLA back across the border. Of course the reason they didn't invade, no matter what the historians say, is that the resident battalion was the Black Watch and HK at the time was host to the Brigade of Gurkhas. Just one last photo. Below is a Canadair CL 215 which was being considered by the HK government for forest fire fighting.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/pict0087_e37b43c919b88176a3e44f2a075f1cd6a1edf3a9.jpg

As part of my campaign to fly in anything that I could blag my way onto, many years later I managed a trip in one of these whilst on detachment to Goose Bay. Many thanks to the crew of Tanker 252. Apologies for the state of some of the piccies but this entry has convinced me to use the remnants of Covid lockdown to use Affinity Photo to clean everything up. Oh yes...I got my second jab today

[Fareastdriver]

IIRC that old building with the verandas at the top left of your first picture is the old Kai Tak Officer's Mess

[RHKAAF]

Actually-------CH

[212man]

I was fortunate to be invited by some of my old students from Bristow days to spend a morning at HKGFS this time 2 years ago. Great setup, superb airraft and equipment. Still the odd expat on strength. My very best wishes to them all.
TM isn’t that odd!

[Barksdale Boy]

Of course, CH - with Welsh-speaking granddaughters, I should have known better. Still in touch with G&C.

[ShyTorque]

I’ve kept quiet about it so far but I served on GFS for a while, in its early years. I experienced some of the most enjoyable and also some if the most challenging flying I’ve done. Plus a few rather soul destroying flights for reasons beyond my control.

[Fareastdriver]

I experienced some of the most enjoyable and also some if the most challenging flying I’ve done.

You and me both; but from different sides of the border.

[Top West 50]

IIRC that old building with the verandas at the top left of your first picture is the old Kai Tak Officer's Mess
I don't think so - the mess was on the other side of Kwun Tong Road.

[Top West 50]

IIRC that old building with the verandas at the top left of your first picture is the old Kai Tak Officer's Mess
sorry, spotted it now

[ACW342]

sorry, spotted it now
Kwun Tong Doe, Home of Amoy Soy sauce and very noticeable with the right wind

[Fareastdriver]

Amoy soy sauce originated in Amoy, now called Xiamin. Certainly one of the most pleasant cities I have ever been to.

Worldwide!

[Barksdale Boy]

I think you'll find that it's Xiamen.

[Top West 50]

IIRC that old building with the verandas at the top left of your first picture is the old Kai Tak Officer's Mess
Another view - summer 1974
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/911x623/rhkaaf_spitfire_at_kai_tak2_5648fe6b51d44001e096b95352ee2810 90c11728.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

I think you'll find that it's Xiamen.

You'r right. That's an appalling mistake to make seeing I have been there at least four times.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for your post ACW342 - very interesting, and pleased to hear your bombing skills were better than mine! They hadnt improved by the time I was going through the NBS course at Lindholme and I got a record mine mile error on one of my trips. Still, it clinched my posting to Victor tankers instead of Vulcans at the end of the course, so it worked out well.

Re blagging flights, one of my best was in one of 20 Flight Sioux which were based at Kai Tak at the time. One day a mate on 20 Flight asked me if I fancied going for a swim. I said I did so he told me to go and get my bathers. We jumped into a Sioux, headed off into the NT and landed on a beach somewhere. After a few minutes we were hailed by the occupants of a floating gin palace moored just off the beach. We swam out and they invited us on board for a drink (soft of course!). As I sat there in a scene reminiscent of a James Bond film I had to remind myself that I was actually getting paid for this!

Re Kai Tak mess, yes it was on the opposite side off the Kwun Tong Road, as has been said. The steepish hill leading down to the busy dual carriageway could be a bit unnerving. I had a chum who had an old Mk V Jaguar with very dodgy brakes. On a number of occasions I remember him coming down that road, frantically pumping the brake pedal and the rest of us with our fingers crossed hoping that we would be able to stop and not just sail into the always busy traffic.

One of my better postings (and I met Mrs TTN who was a QARANC sister while I was there). Happy days.