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Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force - part of RAF?

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Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force - part of RAF?

Old 13th Mar 2021, 06:20
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Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force - part of RAF?

A question being asked on the History & Nostalgia site with no definitive answer.

Any RAF chap, or others, able to come up with an insightful answer?

Reading of the below RAF Museum document doesn't make it clear, other than reference to "The unit was affiliated to No 601 Sqn RAuxAF in 1954. Standards were checked annually by the Central Flying Schoolís examiners". One asks what do they mean by "affiliated to 601"? I would have thought being checked by CFS and having RAF personnel posted to the unit would have meant some formal connection ie the unit would lie within a chain of command. Or would the RAF personnel be regarded as on exchange?

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...ary-Forces.pdf

Thanks all.
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Old 13th Mar 2021, 17:27
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Wasn't it a department of the Hong Kong Government? Surely that is why RAF officers were on loan or seconded service, if it was part of the RAF wouldn't they have just been posted?
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Old 13th Mar 2021, 20:10
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As a kid flying to HK for family Xmas here and there and odd wedding etc in the 80s, remember the SA366C Dauohins then early 90s the Sikorsky S-76A and S-70C Blackhawk (now with Firehawk Helicopters in Fl) Then funnily enough 2 decades ago attended Le Bourget and came across first then Eurocopter AS332L2 (my pics below) .




Two years ago popped into North Weald and came across former RHKAAF Bulldog








cheers
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 01:58
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Question answered by Top West in History & Nostalgia.

https://oelawhk.lib.hku.hk/items/show/2018
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 09:40
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Megan,

An answer to your comment about CFS. I don't know the current state of affairs, but in the past they have checked, by invitation, a number of overseas Air Forces. Ones I can recall were Hong Kong, Oman, Malaysia and Jordan. They often took along a CFS Agent from the transport fleet to check the day to day operation of, for example, the C130s in Malaysia rather than just looking at the training units.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 15:23
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Widening the thread creep: you can add the Royal Brunei Air Force to WIDN62's list
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 22:30
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Originally Posted by Thud_and_Blunder View Post
Widening the thread creep: you can add the Royal Brunei Air Force to WIDN62's list
who also have loan service officers embedded within.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 01:20
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Cant help with the question unfortunately but the thread has brought back memories of flying with the HKAAF when I was at Kai Tak in 68- 69. At the time they operated a couple of Alouette 3s and some Austers. I managed to go flying on several occasions, usually on the Austers, which were great fun. On Sunday mornings they did a "hearts and minds" service, delivering bundles of newspapers to remote villages in the New Territories. On one occasion, approaching a coastal village from the landward side I was a little late releasing my bundle from the doorway, and saw it splash down in the sea about 30 yards from the shore. The last we saw the locals were wading out to retrieve it - I wonder if they ever got the papers dried out.

I seem to recall there were two regular RAF officers attached to the unit - one each on the rotary and fixed wing sides. The rest of the chaps were locally employed, mainly European, but their star pilot was one Sqn Ldr Danny Cheung, AFC, whose award had come after a helicopter rescue, the details of which I have forgotten.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 02:14
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G-Hong and G-Kong were the Slingsby that came back to the UK from Hong Kong and will operate by Babcock for RAF training, this aircraft were originally in the Hong Kong scheme white and red but were repainted by Badcock into the yellow.
Slingsby pointed out that the fibreglass wasnít suitable on the aircraft to have yellow paint so the aircraft came back into the paint shop to have the original scheme re applied, but as they appear to be in yellow now it must be assumed that they will then cleared later on to carry the yellow paint scheme.
When they came to repaint them, it was found the yellow hadnít adhered to the wing properly and was literally peeled off, resulting in the paint company actually providing the replacement paint for free.
It was apparently is to do with the temperature of the fibreglass under the Sun in the critical wing root area, hence they had a temperature gauge in the cockpit.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 08:49
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I heard how one of those aircraft ended up in a flat spin over the sea during a HK training sortie. The pilot instructor eventually recovered it by using power, but at low altitude.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 13:35
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212man,

I know - I was one of them , Oman too . CFS(H) visits were good value in both locations, I think their examiners found the visits educational as well, so mutually beneficial.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 13:48
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The Ordinance under which the RHKAAF operated is available online. From which it would appear its existence was independant of the RAF, it existed under the authority of HM Governor. However, except where the ordinance specified to the contrary, the Air Force Act and QRRAF applied. Perhaps unsurprisingly, "Nothing in this section shall be deemed to authorize an officer of the Force to exercise any powers of punishment over members of Her Majesty's regular forces."

However, if 'called out' it would be under the operational command of the Service Commander, normally the (RAF) AOC Hong Kong.

Interestingly there was no nationality restriction on service.

https://oelawhk.lib.hku.hk/items/show/2828


CONSTITUTION AND FUNCTIONS OF FORCE

3. (1) The Governor may raise and maintain a force to be known as the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force.
(2) The expenses of raising and maintaining the Force shall be met from moneys provided by the Legislative Council.
(3) The Force shall be composed of officers and members who shall be--
(a) persons employed on the permanent uniformed staff of the Force;
(b) persons enlisted in the Force as volunteers,

(...)
4. The Force shall be---
(a) under the supreme command of the Governor..
(b) when called out, under the operational command of the Service Commander, who shall be the officer for the time being discharging the duties of Air or other Officer Commanding. Royal Air Force,
Hong Kong; and
(c)under the executive command of the Commanding Officer, who shall be responsible to the Service Commander and ultimately to the Governor for such matters as may be prescribed.
5. (1) A person of any nationality may hold a commission.
(2) An officer shall be commissioned by the Governor, on the recommendation of the Commanding Officer, and no commission shall be deemed to be vacated by the death or retirement from office of the Governor by whom it was granted.

6. (1) The Governor may enlist a person of any nationality as a volunteer in the Force.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 14:02
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Originally Posted by Thud_and_Blunder View Post
212man,

I know - I was one of them , Oman too . CFS(H) visits were good value in both locations, I think their examiners found the visits educational as well, so mutually beneficial.
I thought so. Superficially a very boring and restricted place, but in reality plenty going on behind the scenes, both in Bandar and visiting the UK Garrison in Seria (not sure if C Flight or 7 Flight when you were there?)
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 14:04
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Are there any similar units left anywhere? How about Gibraltar, Falklands, Ascension, Cyprus or Diego Garcia?
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 15:22
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In addition to CFS(H) visits I made to the previously mentioned places, I also made a couple of trips to Qatar and Bangladesh. Flying down the Ganges in a Chinese built Mil 18 was one of the more unusual flights I had!
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 15:32
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As the OP in nostalgia, thank you for posting here. I think that definitively answers the question.

As far as I know, there are no similar flying units these days,(the Falkland Islands Government Air Service is basically an airline, with a small MP role). but there are several ground defence units ( e.g. Royal Bermuda Regiment, Turks & Cacos Regiment, Cayman Regiment, Falklands Defence Force), none of them have an air component.



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Old 15th Mar 2021, 15:32
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PS if anyone has any pictures, feel free to share!!
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 14:34
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When I joined the RHKAAF in 1983 there was only one QHI seconded from the RAF. Of the contract staff there were 3 fixed wing and 2 heli pilots. Most of the aircrew were volunteers . CFS came out each year to do some check flights and run their eye over our operations. More contract staff were taken on over the years until the HK GFS was formed and localisation took off in a big way, Unfortunately, the volunteer element disappeared completely. Visit the GFS site to see today's set up and aircraft.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 00:32
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RHKAAF

Are you KH?
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Old 18th Mar 2021, 22:31
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Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
Falkland Islands Government Air Service is basically an airline, with a small MP role
(Pruned for brevity) indeed, FIGAS is part of the civilian population on the islands, generally crewed by islanders who've been sponsored on cadetship schemes, with the odd contractor to cover summer seasons. A pleasantly professional bunch of operators too, running nicely to general AOC standards in quite varying conditions.
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