Liverpool-5

[Navpi]

The96er

Indeed I believe its now at least 5 pure cargo flights that MAN has turned away. To be fair enquiries to handle freight at MAN are actually taken by a cargo manager based at East Midlands. One only has to look at the email address on the MAG website .

Those enquiries are routinely offered EMA. When MAN was full re pax it was understandable, but not.

I suspect the shareholders who recently gave Manchester a substantial bale out will be apoplectic if they find business bound for the N West is being seemingly gifted to The Midlands.

Liverpool are a bit more sprightly when it comes to chasing business.

[southside bobby]

At the time of the "bail out" it was made quite clear additional funding provided was for MAG...MAN/STN & EMA and not of course just "Manchester".

[BACsuperVC10]

Navpi

I believe the recent cargo flights to Liverpool, have been transporting automotive equipment, so it does make sense that Liverpool is where they arrived.

[AircraftOperations]

The96er

So turned down by the handler and not the airport authority itself?

[Navpi]

BACsuperVC10

I 100% agree, likewise does it not make equal sense that "other imports" destined for companies across the N West which include Merseyside are not directed to another airport 100 miles away ?

I'm unsure whether the issue lies with the airport or the handler but either way there is no hiding place.

In terms of MAG the cargo manager is based at East Midlands, I doubt they are going to redirect business "BACK TO MANCHESTER".

Its preposterous that an airport that trumpets itself as gateway to the North and consistently puts forward the PR mantra "22m customers in a 2 hour catchment" is unable to handle pure cargo flights.

In terms of a handler not having the equipment that is not a cover story that MAG can hide behind. There has to be minimum levels of provision, if the handler cannot meet those requirements the terms of contract need to be reassessed.

[AircraftOperations]

Navpi

*82 miles away.

Are these flights only carrying cargo for the North West and are they being directed away (e.g. by Airport Authority) or forced away by lacking of handling options by 3rd party providers. There is a difference. As I understand it, no airport can prevent (legal) flights from arriving & departing, if those flights are taking place within operating hours and there are airport facilities (runway, taxiways, stands) available support that flight. Whether it can then be handled and fuel is different again.

[SWBKCB]

In terms of MAG the cargo manager is based at East Midlands, I doubt they are going to redirect business "BACK TO MANCHESTER".

Quite an insulting comment to the team involved. They'll be employed by the Manchester Airport Group, a concept that seems to be a struggle. I would imagine it is the policy of the group to run their airports in a complimentary rather than competitive manner and the team will handle requests accordingly.

Anyway, shouldn't we be going round and round this circle on the Machester thread?

[BACsuperVC10]

Agree, I think we should be saying well done to Liverpool for attracting some Cargo business tbh.

[flyerguy]

EZY Shows no flight availability on the following for S21 -

Berlin
Paris
Pula
Venice
Bordeaux

[EZYPZY]

Looks like EZY is down to, at most, 6 based a/c for S21. In addition to these route cuts GVA is reduced to 2 x weekly, ZTH down to 1 x weekly.

[BACsuperVC10]

Airport has tweeted regarding yesterdays cargo ops.
Whilst schedule traffic at Liverpool remains limited owing to the current lockdown, today we will have handled freight flights to and from Leipzig, Karlsruhe, Bratislava, Rome, Antwerp, Stockholm, Prague and Nuremburg.

I know a new Titan A321F arrived yesterday , this is a new aircraft for them

[N707ZS]

I see Ravenair are flying to Aberdeen again today, first noticed them sending a couple of P68s back in March.

[BACsuperVC10]

Wizz air are to begin Liverpool to Bourgas from 11 June 21 twice per week.

[BACsuperVC10]

Route re- starting by Wizz around about now are Varna , Bacau, lasi and Chisinau.

[CabinCrewe]

Ambitious...

[BACsuperVC10]

Some of there routes their have been running throughout.

[Dorking]

I`d heard that Wizz have knocked Manchester on the head as a new base, if so I presume they are going to expand at Liverpool where they`ve been for ages.

[Dct_Mopas]

I think the ambitious quote came from the destinations. How many UK nationals have ever heard of Iasi (romania) or Chisinau (Moldova).

That’s some truly one way demand, or at least very little UK national demand.

[eye2eye5]

Varna and Bourgas are Black Sea destinations so possibly assessing the holiday market in Eastern Europe initially.

[Alteagod]

One way demand but the way things are the moment a weeks holiday in the Lada factory in Volgograd could be appealing lol 😆

[BACsuperVC10]

I dont think they are aimed at UK nationals particularly, more Eastern Europeans working in the NW.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool City Region including the Port of Liverpool & Liverpool Airport will become a "Freeport" as per budget yesterday.

[Dorking]

Ideal place for one I would have thought. Plenty of capacity within the port for additional container activity and the airport is ideally placed to take mpart as well, especially seeing the recent additional air cargo facility. Hopefuly bring with it some additional passenger activity.......in the fullness of time obviously.

[BACsuperVC10]

Loganair is to take over the Liverpool to Londonderry route from Ryanair . Flights start 24 May 21. Should be popular, Ryanair was always well used.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool - Kaunas begins 4 June 2021 twice weekly announced by Ryanair. As per Twitter.

[Dorking]

Every little helps, as they say

[BACsuperVC10]

Indeed, hopefully a better year for 2021 !

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool to Zadar begins on 1 July twice a week, Thurs and Sundays. Operated by Lauda Europe.

[BACsuperVC10]

Ryanair starting Liverpool to Stockholm in November twice a week.

[Dorking]

Good to see routes expanding from Liverpool..Confidence returning, hopefully.

[Seljuk22]

Wizz launching FCO, 3 weekly starting 1st July

[BACsuperVC10]

Good to see this route back.

[Dorking]

Wizz seem to be taking a cautious but steady path at Liverpool. I wonder where next. I bet we don`t have to wait too long to find out either.

[BACsuperVC10]

There are a number of ready to go routes which Easyjet and to a lesser extent Ryanair have dropped recently, probably due to Covid19. However if they don't return to them, they would be easy pickings for Wizz.

[lplsprog]

New route by Wizz announced to Rome three times a week.

[BACsuperVC10]

Yes and the timings are pretty good from what I saw.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair just announced 3 weekly FCO from 1st August.

[AndrewH52]

Four weekly (M / W / Fr / Su) according to the FR press release.

[ATNotts]

How long will Ryanair and Wizz stay on LPL/FCO? The Ryanair operation is clearly there as nothing more than a spoiler for the Wizz service. Neither carrier has a good track record on persevering with loss making services, and there is a distinct danger that rather than having two carriers on the route due to the same decision (to cull the route as loss making) being made by two sets of management in Budapest and Dublin at the same time.

[BACsuperVC10]

Its ridiculous really, Wizz took the initiative, so Ryanair want to spoil it. Ryanair cut a number of LPL-Italy routes last year due to the pandemic, none were Rome. Would be far more useful if they returned to a previously served route.

[cavokblues]

Typical Ryanair behaviour. They did it at Luton the other year, drove easyJet off the Copenhagen route. The battle was quite intense so much so that Copenhagen was one of Luton's busiest routes in terms of rotations and pax but after easyJet pulled off the route Ryanair decreased it x1 daily and now the route doesn't operate whatsoever.

Strange behaviour. It's almost like they just relish the battle.

[southside bobby]

"Strange behaviour.It`s almost like they just relish the battle".

Not too sure whether that is news or revelatory.

[BACsuperVC10]

Yes its rubbish really in the end the airport and the travelling public miss out

[southside bobby]

Right of course...
Very very few airports in the system that RYR is beholden to...actually is the other way round of course.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool to Poznan and Wroclaw re starts today by Ryanair.

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet are adding a Liverpool to Malta from Tuesdays and Sundays from 25 July. Ryanair also operative this route.

[cavokblues]

Just having a look at the amount of seats sold on the Liverpool - Bournemouth flights this weekend and the load factor looks very decent.

Obviously not exactly indicative of yield but very promising.

[MARKEYD]

I think you need to look again at the seats , it’s the white seats that are unsold

[cavokblues]

Woops, bit of an error on my part.

I chose one of the more expensive fares to see the seats and, obviously, it only showed me the seats up front and only 21 seats available on the entire flight. I can see now that isn't a true reflection of the reality!

[BACsuperVC10]

The fares do seem to have gone up this weekend I see.

[BACsuperVC10]

New routes for the winter by FR, Liverpool to Paris BVA, Milan BGY, Tallin and Sibiu

[BACsuperVC10]

63320 Pax flew from Liverpool in June. Busiest route was LPL-BFS with 24164 pax
(as per NWAN)

[BACsuperVC10]

New route Liverpool to Tirana from 10 Dec. 3 x per week A321

[barry lloyd]

Liverpool has enough scallies of their own, without importing them from Albania! (I speak as a Scouser btw). As someone who has spent time there, the thought of arriving in TIA at 0400L would fill me with total dread!

[BACsuperVC10]

Is that all you can say....depressing !

[barry lloyd]

Just a point of view after visiting there with PIA in the 1970s and more recently with Albanian Airlines. Depressing describes it perfectly! It's just a point of view - I realise others may differ.

[BACsuperVC10]

Something like " nice to see Wizz adding another route from LPL " might have been a bit more positive .

[BACsuperVC10]

202798 passengers flew through Liverpool in August 21, making the airport the 11th busiest in the UK in passenger numbers. I came back from Portugal on Sunday afternoon with Easyjet the A320neo was pretty much full. Things improving.

[Rutan16]

MORE will be LEAVING courtesy of Border Force than arriving just like the Stansted operations.

[BACsuperVC10]

Nordwind A330 arrived from St Petersburg yesterday in early hours at 03.02. Left at 08.40 to Moscow.
i think this has brought in PPE.

[MANFAN]

Any changes to the “huts” when boarding the Ryanair flights? Or should I say have they been replaced? And the immigration hall?

[BACsuperVC10]

I am flying in on the 13th with Ryanair, so might see then. I can't see much changing during the current climate.

[MANFAN]

Yes but there has been plenty of time to improve this pre covid.
I flew from Liverpool in September with EasyJet…security was great, however, the new gate areas weren’t fit for purpose. Very little room and lack of seating!

[BACsuperVC10]

​​​​​​i haven't used those far gates very often, but when I have I've pretty much boarded straight away, so I've not noticed about seating there.

[MANFAN]

Don’t get me wrong, the experience at Liverpool is mainly pretty good. But last time I was there I noticed how much worse the gate areas are than before around gate 1/2 etc where EasyJet board due to the lack of seating and how close together the gate areas are. And the immigration hall is always overwhelmed at arrival…

[BACsuperVC10]

The best departure gates from the passengers point of view are the ones in the terminal proper. The ones that are far flung are less so, and do need attention. I use the airport frequently and tbh arrivals I have never found an issue, I think they could do with more space and I'm sure the powers that be are aware of it. Having said all that I have often been off the plane and indoors having a cuppa in under and hour which is good going by any standards.
​​​​​

[BACsuperVC10]

Another Nordwind Cargo charter came in from.LED last night B777

[BACsuperVC10]

A330 of Nordwind arrived from LED early today just before 6am then departed to SVO about an hour ago. There are planned several more flights by them A330/ B777 until 06 Jan 22.

[GDAJB]

Great! But cant you put this stuff in the spotters forum where it better belongs?

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Great! But cant you put this stuff in the spotters forum where it better belongs?
I'm not looking to be confrontational but, whilst appreciating that you're entitled to your personsl viewpoint, it's good to know that there are some members who are prepared to post some news on an otherwise fairly quiet thread.

[BA318]

I'm not looking to be confrontational but, whilst appreciating that you're entitled to your personsl viewpoint, it's good to know that there are some members who are prepared to post some news on an otherwise fairly quiet thread.

I agree. Certainly seems fine given not much else gets posted on this thread and I think it’s interesting to see them trying other things.

[BACsuperVC10]

Great! But cant you put this stuff in the spotters forum where it better belongs?

Well, I'm not really a spotter generally. I just considered this to be operational news, which was a bit unusual.

[BACsuperVC10]

Wizz Air's inaugural Liverpool - Tirana service began last night.

[lfc84]

SeanM1997 on twitter reports that Corfu and Gran Canaria have been removed from the Ryanair booking system

[Rutan16]

[QUOTE=BACsuperVC10;11153877]Wizz Air's inaugural Liverpool - Tirana service began last night

this will be one of Pritti horrids migrant deportion routes I suppose

[Dorking]

[QUOTE=BACsuperVC10;11153877]Wizz Air's inaugural Liverpool - Tirana service began last night

this will be one of Pritti horrids migrant deportion routes I suppose

Well its about time they made a start

[EI-BUD]

SeanM1997 on twitter reports that Corfu and Gran Canaria have been removed from the Ryanair booking system
And neither are easyJet routes interestingly enough

[BACsuperVC10]

Guangzhou - St Petersburg - Liverpool due today 11.52. Departure 15.10 N4 9002 A330 Nordwind

[MANFAN]

Lufthansa to start flying to Liverpool from Frankfurt from 4th May 2022…didn’t see that one coming!
Tweet doesn’t state what the frequency will be.

[BACsuperVC10]

Lufthansa to start flying to Liverpool from Frankfurt from 4th May 2022…didn’t see that one coming!
Tweet doesn’t state what the frequency will be.

Very good news that. Will operate Mon, Weds, Fri and Sun A320/ CRJ900 (suns)

[eggc]

Very good news that. Will operate Mon, Weds, Fri and Sun A320/ CRJ900 (suns)

KLM tried not that many years ago and didnt last long, hope LH try a little harder.

[eye2eye5]

The lack of a competing LCC on the route should ensure it doesn’t suffer the same fate as KLM. That said, LH made short work of FR at MAN.

[VickersVicount]

KLM tried not that many years ago and didnt last long, hope LH try a little harder.
Would be my feeling also. Gone within a year of starting is my instinct. The old adage ‘use it or lose it’ hopefully holds true and people get on board so to speak.
Always seems a little weird travelling 1-2 hrs east for connections to double back West for those particular routes, wouldn’t be my choice. LH are a little sterile also.

[eye2eye5]

LH probably have a rather different ethic and are more likely to hang around. There are many business links with Germany on Merseyside and this service has been long in the making. I suspect it is more likely to grow than contract,

[SWBKCB]

Jumping straight in with a A320 on alternate days doesn't shout connections. Some corporate backing?

[Mr A Tis]

I imagine the A320 has a useful cargo payload for the automotive industry ?

[BACsuperVC10]

MAN-FRA is already a very busy route. I don't see why this shouldn't follow in the same vein, gives more choice for the NW in general, and gives Lufthansa a route without competition from Liverpool. Its great Liverpool at long last has a hub link.

[easyflyer83]

MAN-FRA is already a very busy route. I don't see why this shouldn't follow in the same vein, gives more choice for the NW in general, and gives Lufthansa a route without competition from Liverpool. Its great Liverpool at long last has a hub link.

You could say the same about KL when they tried LPL. They are experts in UK connections through AMS.

Good news nonetheless but ideally needed at least a daily service to offer a good degree of flexibility.

[BACsuperVC10]

You could say the same about KL when they tried LPL. They are experts in UK connections through AMS.

Good news nonetheless but ideally needed at least a daily service to offer a good degree of flexibility.

Its true KLM are good at UK connections, I think they gave up too early. If this works, I'm sure LH will add more flights. We'll dome to the all involved for bringing this route in not the best of times.

[Rutan16]

Its true KLM are good at UK connections, I think they gave up too early. If this works, I'm sure LH will add more flights. We'll dome to the all involved for bringing this route in not the best of times.
The KLC flight times weren't very good for connections particularly back west and it was pretty much an Amsterdam slot sitter.

Frankfurt has been served previously by BMA/BMI and rarely scored significant loads indeed it was tagged via EMA on occasion.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

You could of course go back to the mid-60s when, if I remember correctly, British Eagle operated LPL-MAN-FRA with a BAC 1-11 as EG660/661. Hopefully my grey cells are all functioning okay.

[eye2eye5]

Fabulous memory, thanks for sharing.

[DomyDom]

You could of course go back to the mid-60s when, if I remember correctly, British Eagle operated LPL-MAN-FRA with a BAC 1-11 as EG660/661. Hopefully my grey cells are all functioning okay.
Thanks for this ineresting piece of history. Was it the same route reversed for the return flight?

[EI-BUD]

KLMs withdrawal may not necessarily mean the route wasn't doing well, there simply may have been other points of similar distance that provide better revenue opportunities, and better feed to the network. Also given the scarcity of slots at AMS ... In this climate we've seen airlines trying things that ordinarily wouldn't have been considered likely. Equally airlines are looking to any attractive Incentives on offer. Good to see the airport attracting business from something other than low cost airlines.

[Mr A Tis]

You could of course go back to the mid-60s when, if I remember correctly, British Eagle operated LPL-MAN-FRA with a BAC 1-11 as EG660/661. Hopefully my grey cells are all functioning okay.
In the 70s Dan air operated LPL-AMS with various equipment.

https://derbosoft.proboards.com/thread/22202/liverpool-amsterdam-route-history

[SWBKCB]

Are we sure we aren't comparing apples and oranges? Jumping straight in with an A.320 less than daily, rather than a more frequent CRJ/EMB/319 doesn't sound like a bid for connecting traffic to me.

[BACsuperVC10]

The KLC flight times weren't very good for connections particularly back west and it was pretty much an Amsterdam slot sitter.

Frankfurt has been served previously by BMA/BMI and rarely scored significant loads indeed it was tagged via EMA on occasion.

That's donkeys years ago, re BMA. KLM's flights were increased from 3 to 4 per day, so not a slot sitter.

[EZYPZY]

easyJet to launch two new routes to Heraklion and Izmir, each operating once weekly. Tenerife goes year round. Rhodes and Zante seemingly moved down the road to MAN.

[BACsuperVC10]

Blue Air operated a 737 max8 on its flight from Bucharest early this morning. They now return in April 2 per week.

[BACsuperVC10]

Nordwind A330s on cargo flights from CAN via SVO or LED , have continued to operate on a regular basis, sometimes two aircraft on the apron together.

[Navpi]

Well hats off to Liverpool, two freighters inbound currently.

[MARKEYD]

Have Ryanair ditched Malta completely for the summer ?
Malta seems to have gone from BOH and EMA as well after many years of operating

[BACsuperVC10]

Well hats off to Liverpool, two freighters inbound currently.

The freighters from China via Russia have been running quite regularly for a while by Nordwind. One has just arrived but this time a B777 of Redwings.

[BACsuperVC10]

Have Ryanair ditched Malta completely for the summer ?
Malta seems to have gone from BOH and EMA as well after many years of operating

Who knows :confused:

[BACsuperVC10]

Lufthansa , Liverpool to Frankfurt route will now start on 2 May, slightly earlier than planned.

[lfc84]

https://www.liverpoolairport.com/recruitment-day 200 jobs Details in the link for anyone interested

[BACsuperVC10]

Ural Airlines A321s have began to operate some freight charters from China into Liverpool. Calls at an intermediate point en route.

[N707ZS]

Local council puts the boot in:
Liverpool Airport future expansion plans in doubt - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60149341)

[BACsuperVC10]

Local council puts the boot in:
Liverpool Airport future expansion plans in doubt - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60149341)

People who don't want to see the city grow

[UnderASouthernSky]

People who don't want to see the city grow

The city can only grow if LJLA expands?

[BACsuperVC10]

The city can only grow if LJLA expands?

It needs transport connections, LPL is part of that.

[chaps1954]

Building a new runway is not very popular with people at this time and is going to to get less popular with time.

[BACsuperVC10]

Building a new runway is not very popular with people at this time and is going to to get less popular with time.

I don't see the need for another runway at this time. However that doesn't mean the airport should not be allowed to grow in the future.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Building a new runway is not very popular with people at this time and is going to to get less popular with time.

I knew they were looking at extending the current runway, however "building a new runway" is possibly a case of unfortunate wording?

Please don't shoot me, maybe I've misinterpreted the previous post.

[BACsuperVC10]

I knew they were looking at extending the current runway, however "building a new runway" is possibly a case of unfortunate wording?

Please don't shoot me, maybe I've misinterpreted the previous post.

I am not aware of a second runway proposal myself. I think they maybe looking at a new starter strip at the Hale end of the runway. I think land has been earmarked for that.

[SWBKCB]

Local council puts the boot in:
Liverpool Airport future expansion plans in doubt - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-60149341)

It's not the local council, its some members of the 'climate change and environment select committee' have asked the full council to consider...

The Masterplan has no mention of a second runway, but does propose a runway extension to the east.

[lplsprog]

Any extension to the runway would be in Halton B.C. as the boundary is the old Dungeon lane. Halton have already said they will allow the airport to expand there. Liverpool C.C. have only a right to a have a say as it's near to them but not a block.

[Rutan16]

I am not aware of a second runway proposal myself. I think they maybe looking at a new starter strip at the Hale end of the runway. I think land has been earmarked for that.

There is a proposal to extend the runway to around the 10,000 feet mark a vain believe of gaining long haul (never mind 747s have previously operated TALC into Canada - A market now gone -some say dead literally).

Peel have long lived in sort of dreamland in what can be achieved at Speke to be honest.

The North West and indeed Northern Powerhouse needs a single primary airport with excellent regional rail and road connections and perhaps a second air cargo hub .

As for a driver for wider economic growth in the last sixty years Speke missed almost all growth targets and opportunities; baring one and that was a lucky break/gift given to them on a plate by MAG market mismanagement, the early flexible fares carriers Orange and Harp expansion in the early 2000s and EU liberalisation..

Regrettably even that peaked with a change of course 35miles down the road.

Putting aside the last 2 years (COVID and Brexit) terminal passenger numbers reached a high of 5,468,510 in 2007 ! and declined back below 4,000,000 in 2014 recovering to 5,043,975 in 2019.

During the same period most other compareble airports - I'll sight Bristol similar demographics, 2007 - 5,926,774, 2014 - 6,339,805 and 2019- 8,964,242 observed consistent growth.

We can also consider freight and mail have declined with the loss of the night mail hub and potentially missed opportunities with the consolidators.

Clearly Speke has under-performed and continues to do so.

If we consider the range of routes that support the local economy (rather than exporting holiday money) well Easy - serve Belfast, Amsterdam , Barcelona and Geneva with Madrid, whilst the Harp adds Dublin , Bergamo (Milan), Charleroi (Brussels), Rome and Stockholm with a few others
Wizz is almost all migrant labour inbound (with post Brexit notable declines)

And the airport doesn't even support an Aer Lingus flight into the hub these days -Even missed on the the new Aer Lingus Regional first wave.

KLC left with better things to do with the Schiphol slots

Nice to see Lufthansa try something sure.

The terminal is adequate for current and some years of future recovery/growth.

As a tool for inward investment into the city region, Speke is a shadow line to the presence of another facility down the road.

The North West needs to look at inward investment across the entire region and not just one of the two city regions competing.

Really the competition isn't Manchester or Liverpool , Preston or Blackburn no its the North West and indeed the North of England against the likes of the Ruhr , Milan and Barcelona where things are MADE yes the skill base remains that of manufacturing in the main.

[spekesoftly]

I am not aware of a second runway proposal myself.

The only such proposal of which I am aware was when the airport was owned by British Aerospace, but that was some 20 years ago .......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bae-studies-pounds-1bn-airport-at-liverpool-1531519.html

[BACsuperVC10]

The only such proposal of which I am aware was when the airport was owned by British Aerospace, but that was some 20 years ago .......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bae-studies-pounds-1bn-airport-at-liverpool-1531519.html

Its not even on the agenda , and extended runway maybe for the future.

[spekesoftly]

Its not even on the agenda ...........

I didn't imagine for one momemt that it would be on the agenda, but just a point of historical interest.

[BACsuperVC10]

There is a proposal to extend the runway to around the 10,000 feet mark a vain believe of gaining long haul (never mind 747s have previously operated TALC into Canada - A market now gone -some say dead literally).

Peel have long lived in sort of dreamland in what can be achieved at Speke to be honest.

The North West and indeed Northern Powerhouse needs a single primary airport with excellent regional rail and road connections and perhaps a second air cargo hub .

As for a driver for wider economic growth in the last sixty years Speke missed almost all growth targets and opportunities; baring one and that was a lucky break/gift given to them on a plate by MAG market mismanagement, the early flexible fares carriers Orange and Harp expansion in the early 2000s and EU liberalisation..

Regrettably even that peaked with a change of course 35miles down the road.

Putting aside the last 2 years (COVID and Brexit) terminal passenger numbers reached a high of 5,468,510 in 2007 ! and declined back below 4,000,000 in 2014 recovering to 5,043,975 in 2019.

During the same period most other compareble airports - I'll sight Bristol similar demographics, 2007 - 5,926,774, 2014 - 6,339,805 and 2019- 8,964,242 observed consistent growth.

We can also consider freight and mail have declined with the loss of the night mail hub and potentially missed opportunities with the consolidators.

Clearly Speke has under-performed and continues to do so.

If we consider the range of routes that support the local economy (rather than exporting holiday money) well Easy - serve Belfast, Amsterdam , Barcelona and Geneva with Madrid, whilst the Harp adds Dublin , Bergamo (Milan), Charleroi (Brussels), Rome and Stockholm with a few others
Wizz is almost all migrant labour inbound (with post Brexit notable declines)

And the airport doesn't even support an Aer Lingus flight into the hub these days -Even missed on the the new Aer Lingus Regional first wave.

KLC left with better things to do with the Schiphol slots

Nice to see Lufthansa try something sure.

The terminal is adequate for current and some years of future recovery/growth.

As a tool for inward investment into the city region, Speke is a shadow line to the presence of another facility down the road.

The North West needs to look at inward investment across the entire region and not just one of the two city regions competing.

Really the competition isn't Manchester or Liverpool , Preston or Blackburn no its the North West and indeed the North of England against the likes of the Ruhr , Milan and Barcelona where things are MADE yes the skill base remains that of manufacturing in the main.

Quite a depressing opinion. The Northwest is quite large enough to support two airports, and doesn't have excellent surface links, and probably never will. Liverpool has reported growth since 2015, apart from Covid, I see no reason why that won't continue.

As you know Aer Lingus was barred from flying from Liverpool for many years, Ryanair became the allocated carrier by the Irish Government, they have always been seen off by Ryanair ever since. Wizzair continues to add services now with 13 routes, Ryanair added several new routes recently, as did Easyjet.
Freight has increased of late too with 34 flights from China, over 30 of those were wide bodies.

Bristol is not really a good comparison, they have no large airport on their doorsteps. If you compare with LBA or NCL,, Liverpool is doing OK, and well done to the airports Management and Lufthansa for bringing us Frankfurt.

[pug]

Quite a depressing opinion. The Northwest is quite large enough to support two airports, and doesn't have excellent surface links, and probably never will. Liverpool has reported growth since 2015, apart from Covid, I see no reason why that won't continue.

As you know Aer Lingus was barred from flying from Liverpool for many years, Ryanair became the allocated carrier by the Irish Government, they have always been seen off by Ryanair ever since. Wizzair continues to add services now with 13 routes, Ryanair added several new routes recently, as did Easyjet.
Freight has increased of late too with 34 flights from China, over 30 of those were wide bodies.

Bristol is not really a good comparison, they have no large airport on their doorsteps. If you compare with LBA or NCL,, Liverpool is doing OK, and well done to the airports Management and Lufthansa for bringing us Frankfurt.

I think Rutan provides a fair assessment of the situation. Clearly LPL has a strong local market for primarily leisure oriented routes, with some historically strong links across the Irish Sea also being served. However, not too far down the motorway is MAN, currently undergoing a vast expansion. MAN has the critical mass, there is no way LPL will ever effectively compete against that. Most passengers in Merseyside won’t bat an eyelid at flying from Manchester, regardless of any local animosity.

The M62 corridor can only support one major airport.

[ATNotts]

Two things:-

First, in the new world of COP26 and its aftermath and commitments to reduce emissions it is going to become increasingly difficult to get airport or runway expansion through the planning process, certainly not with any speed and as it is the planning system in UK is so unwieldly and protracted without adding the environmental considerations.

Second, there are already too many airports in the UK. Do we really need BHX and EMA, MAN and LPL, GLA and PIK, BFS and BHD or NCL and MME? As PUG says whatever the proponents of LPL might say, given decent surface connections LPL's "local" airport is essentially MAN. You could of course argue, with a a good deal of justification, that the surface links aren't that great at the moment between any of the airport pairs I've listed.

I think its pretty certain that in BHX, for example, were applying for their runway extension today, as opposed to half a decade ago they would have little or no chance of getting approval for it. The world is changing, whether for better or worse is debatable, but it will impact on air travel (outside of the sacred London of course!).

[Rutan16]

Quite a depressing opinion. The Northwest is quite large enough to support two airports, and doesn't have excellent surface links, and probably never will. Liverpool has reported growth since 2015, apart from Covid, I see no reason why that won't continue.

As you know Aer Lingus was barred from flying from Liverpool for many years, Ryanair became the allocated carrier by the Irish Government, they have always been seen off by Ryanair ever since. Wizzair continues to add services now with 13 routes, Ryanair added several new routes recently, as did Easyjet.
Freight has increased of late too with 34 flights from China, over 30 of those were wide bodies.

Bristol is not really a good comparison, they have no large airport on their doorsteps. If you compare with LBA or NCL,, Liverpool is doing OK, and well done to the airports Management and Lufthansa for bringing us Frankfurt.

Aer Lingus has NEVER been barred from Speke that is utter nonsense and frankly has been illegal since 1997 under EU law; indeed under prior under the GB and Eire trade arrangements since 1923 !

CoVID19 supply flights will begin to wind down everywhere from the spring indeed China and the CAAC has instructed that no more freight on passenger exemptions for Chinese carriers will be permitted beyond April.

Bristol is an excellent comparison large local community (admittedly a vocal population of anti aviation and other green issues) and a massive leakage of traffic to a rather large regional field an hour and half away by train.

Indeed this is exactly the societal issues; in the south and along the M4 corridor commuting quite sizeable distances is actually the norm and I mean well in excess of 30 miles each way .
My own commutes take me up to 70 miles from home to work many days North West London into Central Kent.

As someone who lived and worked Bristol for several years, I can tell you many locals will choose Heathrow over navigating Dalby Avenue , West Street and eventually Bridgwater Road and up Potters Hill any day of the week!
Absolutely horrid journey . Be passing Reading of GWR in the same travel time !

I have no objection to Speke as a local airport serving local needs particularly exporting tourism however as a hub (using it as its literal meaning a transport interchange) its simply fails .

As for cargo; yes there may be some potential, however afraid MAG Group with the geographical advantages of Stansted and EMA and the major consolidators onboard have well and truly captured that market .

I give you Wizz has negotiated a rather good package, however wonder if it actually makes money for Peel Group- indeed if it delivers any profit at all !

(Tirana and Chisinau have a rather political usage in ONE way- if you know what I mean)

[Flightrider]

Rutan, that’s not quite correct. Aer Lingus were barred in about 1988 under a licensing arrangement to create what were “spheres of interest” for them and Ryanair. Obviously this was swept away in 1992, but your statement that they have never been barred is inaccurate, I’m afraid. I’m sure someone else may be able to fill in the bits of detail I can’t recall.

[Mr Mac]

Rutan16
As you may already know, none of the regional airports make money from the likes of Ryan Air , Easy Jet etc. It is all about Parking, Duty Free, Food franchises, the landing charges are minimal. Flights to the Canaries were, or maybe are still, the preferred destination for airports such as Liverpool, as apparently statically they show the biggest spend in the areas I mentioned. That information was accurate a few years ago as a family member was involved in the legal aspect of a number of regional UK airports, and I do not think much will have changed.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[BACsuperVC10]

Rutan, that’s not quite correct. Aer Lingus were barred in about 1988 under a licensing arrangement to create what were “spheres of interest” for them and Ryanair. Obviously this was swept away in 1992, but your statement that they have never been barred is inaccurate, I’m afraid. I’m sure someone else may be able to fill in the bits of detail I can’t recall.

You are quite correct, I worked in the travel industry at time and remember it clearly. Rutan is incorrect.

[BACsuperVC10]

Aer Lingus has NEVER been barred from Speke that is utter nonsense and frankly has been illegal since 1997 under EU law; indeed under prior under the GB and Eire trade arrangements since 1923 !

CoVID19 supply flights will begin to wind down everywhere from the spring indeed China and the CAAC has instructed that no more freight on passenger exemptions for Chinese carriers will be permitted beyond April.

Bristol is an excellent comparison large local community (admittedly a vocal population of anti aviation and other green issues) and a massive leakage of traffic to a rather large regional field an hour and half away by train.

Indeed this is exactly the societal issues; in the south and along the M4 corridor commuting quite sizeable distances is actually the norm and I mean well in excess of 30 miles each way .
My own commutes take me up to 70 miles from home to work many days North West London into Central Kent.

As someone who lived and worked Bristol for several years, I can tell you many locals will choose Heathrow over navigating Dalby Avenue , West Street and eventually Bridgwater Road and up Potters Hill any day of the week!
Absolutely horrid journey . Be passing Reading of GWR in the same travel time !

I have no objection to Speke as a local airport serving local needs particularly exporting tourism however as a hub (using it as its literal meaning a transport interchange) its simply fails .

As for cargo; yes there may be some potential, however afraid MAG Group with the geographical advantages of Stansted and EMA and the major consolidators onboard have well and truly captured that market .

I give you Wizz has negotiated a rather good package, however wonder if it actually makes money for Peel Group- indeed if it delivers any profit at all !

(Tirana and Chisinau have a rather political usage in ONE way- if you know what I mean)

Well you don't work for Peel, so your just guessing. I don't agree with your BRS comparison I'm afraid, but we will leave that there. I think you may well see more cargo from Liverpool, I hear the recent influx of flights have been very happy with the handing available Wynne Aviation. Clearly they weren't tempted with Ringway.

[pug]

Well you don't work for Peel, so your just guessing. I don't agree with your BRS comparison I'm afraid, but we will leave that there. I think you may well see more cargo from Liverpool, I hear the recent influx of flights have been very happy with the handing available Wynne Aviation. Clearly they weren't tempted with Ringway.

Not sure I understand what point you’re trying to make re. Aer Lingus and a ban on operating from Liverpool during some period 30 odd years ago, and what it has to do with anything?

I was under the impression the current long haul cargo operation was directly related to the covid supply flights? In that case if the need for these flights on such levels dries up (which is becoming increasingly apparent) then the cargo services dry up as a result. They’re not going to continue to operate flights with zero - or very little - payload just because they are ‘very happy’ with the service at Wynne Aviation .

[BACsuperVC10]

Not sure I understand what point you’re trying to make re. Aer Lingus and a ban on operating from Liverpool during some period 30 odd years ago, and what it has to do with anything?

I was under the impression the current long haul cargo operation was directly related to the covid supply flights? In that case if the need for these flights on such levels dries up (which is becoming increasingly apparent) then the cargo services dry up as a result. They’re not going to continue to operate flights with zero - or very little - payload just because they are ‘very happy’ with the service at Wynne Aviation .

Wynne Aviation deal with cargo, not just PPE cargo.
Aer Lingus were the incumbent on the DUB route from the beginning, way back. My point is, since they were told to leave the route, they have never been able to hold their own against Ryanair. Dublin is still a busy route from Liverpool nonetheless with over 380,000.00 passengers in 2018. I would say this is much higher than the Aer Lingus days, higher than LBA , and not much behind BRS. These both have two operators.

[BACsuperVC10]

I think Rutan provides a fair assessment of the situation. Clearly LPL has a strong local market for primarily leisure oriented routes, with some historically strong links across the Irish Sea also being served. However, not too far down the motorway is MAN, currently undergoing a vast expansion. MAN has the critical mass, there is no way LPL will ever effectively compete against that. Most passengers in Merseyside won’t bat an eyelid at flying from Manchester, regardless of any local animosity.

The M62 corridor can only support one major airport.

We all know about MAN but it doesn't have all the answers to the north of England's flying needs. No one is saying the north needs another MAN, but I think you're quite wrong to say LPL does not compete effectively, it does offer a real alternative for passengers to MAN. The perception that Liverpool Airport only serves it's "local market", and I presume you mean LCR is also quite wrong.

I am finding it very curious where this "anti-Liverpool Airport " sentiment comes from quite frankly.

[BACsuperVC10]

Yesterday was second visit by Ural Airlines A321 cargo, plus Redwings B777 also cargo.

Flybe was also in for the second time this week training.

[eggc]

We all know about MAN but it doesn't have all the answers to the north of England's flying needs. No one is saying the north needs another MAN, but I think you're quite wrong to say LPL does not compete effectively, it does offer a real alternative for passengers to MAN. The perception that Liverpool Airport only serves it's "local market", and I presume you mean LCR is also quite wrong.

I am finding it very curious where this "anti-Liverpool Airport " sentiment comes from quite frankly.

Personally Liverpool isnt an alternative to me despite being 30 miles away. I only ever consider MAN, but I get the price concious might travel to save a few quid here and there.

Weirdly airports seem like football clubs to interested parties, MAN dont like LPL, BHX versus EMA, LTN versus STN, GLA versus EDI, LHR versus LGW etc and visa versa in each case. Don't ask me why but you see evidence in all of the forums of it.

LPL has its place for bucket and spade, city breaks etc but will never be any more than than and there is room for that in the NW.

Talk above of a second runway at LPL made me giggle a little I must admit, even MAN with many fold the passengers struggled at its peak to make 100% use of a second runway. The cost is huge and the need at LPL is zero.

[BACsuperVC10]

Personally Liverpool isnt an alternative to me despite being 30 miles away. I only ever consider MAN, but I get the price concious might travel to save a few quid here and there.

Weirdly airports seem like football clubs to interested parties, MAN dont like LPL, BHX versus EMA, LTN versus STN, GLA versus EDI, LHR versus LGW etc and visa versa in each case. Don't ask me why but you see evidence in all of the forums of it.

LPL has its place for bucket and spade, city breaks etc but will never be any more than than and there is room for that in the NW.

Talk above of a second runway at LPL made me giggle a little I must admit, even MAN with many fold the passengers struggled at its peak to make 100% use of a second runway. The cost is huge and the need at LPL is zero.

Someone on here mentioned a second runway, it has never been in the airports plans, so why it was mentioned i've no idea ! Purely misinformation.

I travel quite often but rarely need to use MAN, even though its not much further for me, I prefer the ease of using LPL. Price comes into where people book, but anecdotally I often hear from fellow passengers who prefer LPL over MAN just because it's more pleasant to use, and they are not all from the LCR, Gtr Manc passengers are quite common and other areas.

As to what LPL will become in the future we don't know. It wont be another MAN, but it will continue to serve the NW well to Europe destination at least

[Rutan16]

We all know about MAN but it doesn't have all the answers to the north of England's flying needs. No one is saying the north needs another MAN, but I think you're quite wrong to say LPL does not compete effectively, it does offer a real alternative for passengers to MAN. The perception that Liverpool Airport only serves it's "local market", and I presume you mean LCR is also quite wrong.

I am finding it very curious where this "anti-Liverpool Airport " sentiment comes from quite frankly.

Other than critique based on economic perspectives and comparative markets ( which you ignore ) you will find not a word against the existence of Speke ( or some other name quite forgettable !)

As I said Liverpool performs a function of exporting some holiday monies (price conscious) in the main and provides a critical NHS link with Ellen Vannin !
The first is /was a function of the liberalisation of air travel within the EU single market and amplified by some market miss-calculations at MAG.

And I will continue to compare and contrast with Bristol !

Consider EasyJet has grown based aircraft and associated employment from 3 ex Go 737s to 17 based and a network of more than 70 routes whilst Liverpool stagnates at 6/7 aircraft and what Is little more than a moving of the deck chairs on routes each season .

Since the 2013 cuts in which Liverpool took a hit recovery has been near non existent , whilst others have done so.

Easyjets commitment seems pretty luck warm imho.

Ryanair similarly has a policy of deck chair route moves and just four resident frames. And in their highest years at Speke their presence was as a result of a pricing spat with MAG !

Done some research on the late 80s spears of influence debate and DAA role apparently is true apologies, however a court ruling made it unenforceable anyway followed closely by EU liberalisation. A period 4 years should be irrelevant today.

As Mr Mac said it’s pretty irrelevant today or indeed anytime since the 2000s.

Whilst MOL is certainly carrying significant numbers across the choppy sea’s, especially football fans for big games; similarly to that other place, the fact that Aer Lingus seemingly are unable to cover costs indeed make money feeding their key connections and healthy local traffic is damning imho.

It indicates the general weakness in the local and indeed regional business travel market right there and personal.

As for the snide you don’t work for Peel statement well as a businessman company owner and shareholder have access to the Peel reports and financials surprised !

Since Peel regained majority ownership they have gone through the tawdriest economic times.
The ESG rating is just 3 with pretty poor credit scores B+ against comparable businesses.

With both those considerations, and just £9 million in reserves, any investment is going to be difficult to attain, let alone be authorised by central government without further risk loaded ( basically expensive) and environmental assessments . Those organic flying thingies in the bay estuary will certainly play a part !

The proposed container, freighting business on the marsh to the south is really what Peel are after , the airport rather less so from Peel Ports own assessments.

It a land grab by any other name .

Peel are a hard nosed Ports and commercial real estate business , aviation rather less so.

When Vantage relinquished there stake relatively cheaply and so quickly after their purchase it’s a clear indication of weakness of the business and expected future returns ( dividends - none forthcoming !)

Want to compare to Newcastle it’s apples and oranges.
A regional airport with heavily range of legacy routes by KL/AF, LH/EW, BA/VY AND EK to the world !
A region with up till Brexit massive industrial and petrochemical INWARD investment and simultaneously serving as the departure point for exported holiday monies . An area equally bounded by large rural communities and a regional population within 30 mile of just 1.24 millions compared to 1.45 millions within Merseyside .

Now clearly not going to depute the elephant in the room for Speke with massive leakage to a normally significant European Airport .

Now superVC10 ( magnificent aircraft !) with such information available perhaps you can see the many many issues commercially and financially facing Liverpool as even a group three airport .

I also eco ATNotts simple assertion that the UK ( England) probably have too many airports in the grade three groupings chasing relatively similar traffic .

Caveat Birmingham and East Midlands have their specific niches , whilst the first is largely restricted by easy access access to London .

[cavokblues]

And I will continue to compare and contrast with Bristol !

I don't think Liverpool deserves to be compared to Bristol. They're very different, I'm not sure how Bristol would be doing if there was a larger airport 30 miles away serving a much larger conurbation with better transport connections.

[spekesoftly]

Someone on here mentioned a second runway, it has never been in the airports plans, so why it was mentioned i've no idea !

It was mentioned by me, simply out of historical interest, because when the airport was owned by British Aerospace, some 30 years ago, they did examine plans to build a twin runway airport at Speke. Here's a quote from the link I posted earlier:-

BRITISH AEROSPACE is examining plans to build a new pounds 1bn international airport at Liverpool with twin runways .....

I can clearly remember attending a briefing in 1992, chaired by Chris Preece (Airport Director at the time), and part of the plan was to extend the airport by reclaiming land from the mudflats of the estuary to make space for two runways. It was also mentioned that some of this work could be done by one of BAe's associated companies at the time, Ballast Nedham, which had expertise in this field. All very ambitious, and no surprise that it didn't proceed, or that a second runway is not part of current airport plans.

[BACsuperVC10]

It was mentioned by me, simply out of historical interest, because when the airport was owned by British Aerospace, some 30 years ago, they did examine plans to build a twin runway airport at Speke. Here's a quote from the link I posted earlier:-



I can clearly remember attending a briefing in 1992, chaired by Chris Preece (Airport Director at the time), and part of the plan was to extend the airport by reclaiming land from the mudflats of the estuary to make space for two runways. It was also mentioned that some of this work could be done by one of BAe's associated companies at the time, Ballast Nedham, which had expertise in this field. All very ambitious, and no surprise that it didn't proceed, or that a second runway is not part of current airport plans.

Ahh well I didn't know about the BAe proposal . The current hullabaloo is from the Liverpool Airports more recent masterplan, which I think is viewable on their website, for more information .

[Mr A Tis]

Although I live 5 miles away from MAN, I would certainly use LPL more often if the ground transportation was much better.
Using MAN can be a pretty grim experience from a passenger perspective, especially if using the depressing T1. Walkways & lifts broken, lights out, security queues, no seating in eateries, baggage belts broken, passenger info screens not updated etc etc. certainly, if you lived between the two, I'd know which way I'd prefer to go.

[SWBKCB]

Of course, when the old terminal was in use, the airport had two runways. There was sometimes a long wait between the announcement on the terraces of an arrival on the 'new' runway and it actually appearing! :ok:

[Rutan16]

Of course, when the old terminal was in use, the airport had two runways. There was sometimes a long wait between the announcement on the terraces of an arrival on the 'new' runway and it actually appearing! :ok:

So true to appear round the wood !

[Mr A Tis]

When I worked there in the 70s, there were 3 runways ! 26/08, 35/17 & hidden behind the trees out of sight of the tower was 27/09. All three were active & made interesting times in the VCR.

[BACsuperVC10]

When I worked there in the 70s, there were 3 runways ! 26/08, 35/17 & hidden behind the trees out of sight of the tower was 27/09. All three were active & made interesting times in the VCR.

I think during that period there was quite a serious crash, when an aircraft went into a neighbouring factory, possibly Lucas.

[BACsuperVC10]

Other than critique based on economic perspectives and comparative markets ( which you ignore ) you will find not a word against the existence of Speke ( or some other name quite forgettable !)

As I said Liverpool performs a function of exporting some holiday monies (price conscious) in the main and provides a critical NHS link with Ellen Vannin !
The first is /was a function of the liberalisation of air travel within the EU single market and amplified by some market miss-calculations at MAG.

And I will continue to compare and contrast with Bristol !

Consider EasyJet has grown based aircraft and associated employment from 3 ex Go 737s to 17 based and a network of more than 70 routes whilst Liverpool stagnates at 6/7 aircraft and what Is little more than a moving of the deck chairs on routes each season .

Since the 2013 cuts in which Liverpool took a hit recovery has been near non existent , whilst others have done so.

Easyjets commitment seems pretty luck warm imho.

Ryanair similarly has a policy of deck chair route moves and just four resident frames. And in their highest years at Speke their presence was as a result of a pricing spat with MAG !

Done some research on the late 80s spears of influence debate and DAA role apparently is true apologies, however a court ruling made it unenforceable anyway followed closely by EU liberalisation. A period 4 years should be irrelevant today.

As Mr Mac said it’s pretty irrelevant today or indeed anytime since the 2000s.

Whilst MOL is certainly carrying significant numbers across the choppy sea’s, especially football fans for big games; similarly to that other place, the fact that Aer Lingus seemingly are unable to cover costs indeed make money feeding their key connections and healthy local traffic is damning imho.

It indicates the general weakness in the local and indeed regional business travel market right there and personal.

As for the snide you don’t work for Peel statement well as a businessman company owner and shareholder have access to the Peel reports and financials surprised !

Since Peel regained majority ownership they have gone through the tawdriest economic times.
The ESG rating is just 3 with pretty poor credit scores B+ against comparable businesses.

With both those considerations, and just £9 million in reserves, any investment is going to be difficult to attain, let alone be authorised by central government without further risk loaded ( basically expensive) and environmental assessments . Those organic flying thingies in the bay estuary will certainly play a part !

The proposed container, freighting business on the marsh to the south is really what Peel are after , the airport rather less so from Peel Ports own assessments.

It a land grab by any other name .

Peel are a hard nosed Ports and commercial real estate business , aviation rather less so.

When Vantage relinquished there stake relatively cheaply and so quickly after their purchase it’s a clear indication of weakness of the business and expected future returns ( dividends - none forthcoming !)

Want to compare to Newcastle it’s apples and oranges.
A regional airport with heavily range of legacy routes by KL/AF, LH/EW, BA/VY AND EK to the world !
A region with up till Brexit massive industrial and petrochemical INWARD investment and simultaneously serving as the departure point for exported holiday monies . An area equally bounded by large rural communities and a regional population within 30 mile of just 1.24 millions compared to 1.45 millions within Merseyside .

Now clearly not going to depute the elephant in the room for Speke with massive leakage to a normally significant European Airport .

Now superVC10 ( magnificent aircraft !) with such information available perhaps you can see the many many issues commercially and financially facing Liverpool as even a group three airport .

I also eco ATNotts simple assertion that the UK ( England) probably have too many airports in the grade three groupings chasing relatively similar traffic .

Caveat Birmingham and East Midlands have their specific niches , whilst the first is largely restricted by easy access access to London .

I will agree with you on the VC10

[SWBKCB]

A couple of comments on BRS vs LPL vs NCL.

No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).

NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...

[Rutan16]

A couple of comments on BRS vs LPL vs NCL.

No mention of the relative income levels of the respectivite catchements areas. I've not checked recently, but its a fair guess they still decrease the further north you get (and NCL's EZY has terminally stagnated from being on a par with BRS's - I don't think these two points are unconnected...).

NCL is massively more isolated than LPL - the populations might be similar but I'd like to see the figures for those within a 60 minute drive...

I think; No I am certain the 60 minute loop would put Speke catchment way above that of Newcastle ( hinted as such) however much of the Speke catchment overlaps a certain neighbour. For some price conscious, specific routes, timings and those seeking a more leisurely experience a small number will choose Liverpool that’s for sure . Through I have no figures to support this hypothesis directly.

What I have generally demonstrated and disturbingly, is the real regional economical disparities within England ( The north south divide as it were) that may have further impacted a certain decision we can’t talk about !

Now what’s the answer and the way forward “ levelling up ain’t it “ now that’s for another place through .

I did refer to the real competition for funding being other urban regions across the EU rather more so than Manchester viz Liverpool . The North West and indeed North of England as whole needs to pull together to create the economic engine as it were for the desired prosperity and growth.

Bristol and the M4 corridor links have produced a dynamic economy with University’s, pharmaceuticals research and indeed entrepreneurship seemingly lacking in the North West for whatever reason.

It’s a deep,seated societal problem with no simple solutions and certainly not in the scope of a simple forum such as this.

[BACsuperVC10]

Blue Air will begin LPL-BCM beginning 11 June , until 25 Oct. Twice a week.

[BACsuperVC10]

Hi Fly brought in cargo PPE this morning, Shenzen to Liverpool via Tallinn .
Nordwind arrives this afternoon.
Both A333.

[ATNotts]

Hi Fly brought in cargo PPE this morning, Shenzen to Liverpool via Tallinn .
Nordwind arrives this afternoon.
Both A333.

Are you sure its PPE? I'm sure I heard our illustrious leader, or one of his lackies say that PPE is now made overwhelmingly in the UK. Perhaps more likely LFT and PCR kits. Don't know, just seems more likely, unless of course he's been lying again!!

[SWBKCB]

I think in these sorts of cases PPE just means "general Covid stuff". The interesting thing will be how long these and other recent cargo developments stay - is it a permanent shift in the industry or are we still in crisis mode while the logistics industry as a whole recovers i.e. port congestion, container shortages etc

[BACsuperVC10]

Are you sure its PPE? I'm sure I heard our illustrious leader, or one of his lackies say that PPE is now made overwhelmingly in the UK. Perhaps more likely LFT and PCR kits. Don't know, just seems more likely, unless of course he's been lying again!!

Well I think it is PPE, and that's what has been mentioned around and about. I'm just wondering which minister or friend of BoJo is making money out of it !

[BACsuperVC10]

Flybe aircraft on stand in a sunny Liverpool today, but still no announcements from them. They need to get on with it , missing out on spring bookings.

[BACsuperVC10]

FLYBE G JECX was around this afternoon from Glasgow then out to Cardiff.

[kriskross]

Line training?

[BACsuperVC10]

Could well be

[Navpi]

No FlyBe routes , interesting.

[Navpi]

No FlyBe routes , interesting. Was rather hoping for a sprinkling after the numerous crew training details.<br />

[SWBKCB]

Just reinforces the point that training flights are no indication of future performance!

[chaps1954]

Training usually at quiet airfields i:e PIK, LPL and MME

[BACsuperVC10]

No FlyBe routes , interesting. Was rather hoping for a sprinkling after the numerous crew training details.<br />

Rather a surprise to me.

[chaps1954]

No they are going to base their operations on BHX on the mainland with Belfast to a few places where a multiple daily route can do well with even Manchester going to struggle due large selection of flights

[BACsuperVC10]

Lufthansa is show Liverpool - Frankfurt flights bookable for 2023, which is good to see.

[BACsuperVC10]

New airline to LPL , starting in November twice a week Liverpool to Kevflavik , onward connections available to New York, Boston, Washington and Orlando.

[Flitefone]

Avoid travel chaos by flying out from these stress-free alternative airports (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/avoid-travel-chaos-by-flying-out-from-these-stress-free-alternative-airports/ar-AAVUPd0?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9ffafa4b3d13495cb128c83c2fcc5dd0)

FF

[BACsuperVC10]

New airline to LPL , starting in November twice a week Liverpool to Kevflavik , onward connections available to New York, Boston, Washington and Orlando.


Play is now going to commence in early October, rather than November .

[BACsuperVC10]

Lufthansa commenced its Frankfurt to Liverpool route this afternoon.

[BACsuperVC10]

This may have been mentioned already, EasyJet begins LPL-BHD on 1 July.

[MANFAN]

Lufthansa commenced its Frankfurt to Liverpool route this afternoon.

There's been a lot of hype on Twitter ref this new service today...Liverpool Airport stating it was the inaugural service today (4th), however I noticed this new service on FR24 on Monday (2nd).

[BACsuperVC10]

There's been a lot of hype on Twitter ref this new service today...Liverpool Airport stating it was the inaugural service today (4th), however I noticed this new service on FR24 on Monday (2nd).

Its not hype, the official announcement by Lufthansa and Liverpool Airport was yesterday the 4th, where representative from the airline, the airport and the city were all present. The route commenced on Monday, because Lufthansa brought forward the commencement date. It was always planned the 4th would be day for publicity purposes.

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet are offering flight from Liverpool to Parsi CDgG between 28 and 29 May, at astronomical prices it has to be said. There are also some charters operating at the same period, so far 2 flights by Ethiopian A359s, 2 by Corsair A333s and 6 Vueling A321s , so far.

[pabely]

So the Paris uplift starts. I wonder if many LFC fans will realise they are on Spanish planes with Spanish crew? If they are Catalan based then probally supporting LFC themselves!

[BACsuperVC10]

The glut of Paris flights from Liverpool began in earnest this morning.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool handled 318,901.000 passengers this April

[lfc84]

I've waited 45 minutes for bags off U2636

Landed at 1810

G-EZDK

Reason why I'm still waiting for bags is that they've unloaded the bags, BUT before bringing ours to the carousel they're loading the outbound bags for the aircrafts next sector to Barcelona. I can see out of the window in the emergency door at carousel 4.

Absolutely pathetic.

[MARKEYD]

Why don’t you go and help them then !!

Honest to god what a pathetic post

[BACsuperVC10]

Ryanair had added Malta ( twice weekly ) and Las Palmas ( weekly ) from the winter schedules .

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet has finally reinstated the LPL-CDG route. Welcome return from October.

[BACsuperVC10]

AN12s and AN26s have been making regular appearances recently with cargo charters. An AN12 went off to St Johns this afternoon, had no idea it had the range for that.

[BACsuperVC10]

https://lbndaily.co.uk/essar-signs-fuel-deal-with-liverpool-airport/

[BACsuperVC10]

Several sport related charters of late to and from Naples, Vitoria and Oslo ( which is a regular ) , 737- 400 , A319 and A340 have operated.

[N707ZS]

Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.

[BACsuperVC10]

Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.

Not privy to that information, but Peel are not the only shareholder.

[Rutan16]

Does Peel treat Liverpool differently than its other airports. Do they spend their own money or still try and get grants and payments from the local council and central government.

Just like the rest of Vantage Airports /Peel Aviation Services use the airport to gain a host of ready public money “grants” . Speke makes nought in the pound .

Liverpool Airport Group have several vehicles to conceal these funds .Right now something approaching £4millions ( equal to those grants] has been squirrelled away into a special vehicle specifically for directors .That vehicle is called Liverpool Airport (intermediate) No2 a separate legal company .
Funds of around £150,000 are also accrued from Doncaster for “shared services”

Peel/ Vantage Airports are operated pretty much as a tax liability to the more profitable sectors of the Peel group.

The lack of dividends anytime soon was part of the reason the Canadians offloaded much of their investments rather cheaply back to Peel !

The other shareholders are minority companies and aren’t at all happy with the lack of dividends that’s for sure.

Group reserves ( cash) was under £200,000 at last report not at all spectacular

Is the airport solvent- questionable without an amount of creativity in the accounts and auditing processes

Like the rest of the aviation division it’s the land bank value that’s important

Liverpudlian fan boys don’t like to be reminded of this through

[eye2eye5]

It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.

[AndrewH52]

Vantage haven’t had a stake in Liverpool Airport for years. You’re also conflating the Group, which is a holding company and Liverpool Airport Limited.

Pre-pandemic the airport made a £4.7m operating profit on almost £34m turnover.

The only ’grants’ I’m aware of were EU funding from when the ‘new’ terminal was built in 2002. That money will have conditions attached so it may well be accounted for separately. Any recent investments have been shareholder funded.

[Rutan16]

It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.

Exactly that smoke and mirrors and sub defuse!

I think they have maybe a dozen little “ companies” each cross billing each other for services rendered .

Peel are a shoddy outfit even in their property and marine portfolios

The accounts are deliberately constructed to be opaque

AndyH …… I used the prior Vantage name for emphasis “ it’s remains a registered company in Companies House through dormant

As for the operating profit you refer to its pre tax and other write downs -it became a loss in the final accounts

I did expect the usual suspects to chime in through

As these are corporate issues not the day to day running of the Terminals

Again creative accounts are necessary to obscure the financial poor performance of the Group of Companies

A greater pity is the politicians in the City Region barely give a toss either !

[Rutan16]

It’s difficult to interpret accounts without input from the Directors and the greater the number of subsidiaries the more opaque they become. For instance, Doncaster has Other Administrative Expenses of £5.7m with no detailed analysis, which could include a myriad of management fees. Peel are not known as risk takers but are probably highly adept at maximising tax planning.

No it’s not difficult if you are an investor or company director yourself !

[AndrewH52]

AndyH …… I used the prior Vantage name for emphasis “ it’s remains a registered company in Companies House through dormant

As for the operating profit you refer to its pre tax and other write downs -it became a loss in the final accounts

I did expect the usual suspects to chime in through

As these are corporate issues not the day to day running of the Terminals

Again creative accounts are necessary to obscure the financial poor performance of the Group of Companies

A greater pity is the politicians in the City Region barely give a toss either !

I’d hope any investor or director of a company I was involved in would be capable of basic due diligence and realise Vantage sold its stake in 2014 and is referred to in the Companies House listing as a prior name, not a dormant company.

I’d also hope said investor or director might understand how you might end up with complex accounts for a group operating structure, especially when that group does provide cross services and has also funded growth through equity investment at different stages. See Manchester Airport Group as an example…

I’ll always “chime in” when I see the ‘usual suspects’ contributing incorrect or misleading information.

[eye2eye5]

In other news, this is a very positive development on the airport’s doorstep:

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/pharmaron-inches-closer-to-400000-sq-ft-speke-expansion/

[SWBKCB]

We can argue the toss about the corportate practices of Peel, but the airport site and the areas around it have been transformed compared to what they were.

[Rutan16]

ANDY I have no grip with you here or elsewhere and I yield when provided with supportive evidence .What don’t and won’t do is fall for sycophantic nonsense !

Why Is it YOU take offence and an adopt a level of aggression rather than pointing to other evidence it’s most unpleasant here and in another place !

Open discussion shouldn’t take such tones !

Do I have a personal issue with you no .Do I have issues with Peel yes they are the worst aviation business in the UK

Ruined and closed Sheffield, Ruined and neglected the core operations of Tees side and now at Doncaster - Common thread land values

Tried to ditch Liverpool and even that back fired

Liverpool lost their parcel service , for years Easy and Ryan have simply moved deck chairs with little genuine expansion ( true a practice of flexible fares carriers) .

Compared to similar sized operations Liverpool has stagnated.

Now I was generally replying to the private 707 chap , a person that’s been here for decades a respected and knowledgeable commentator and one that clearly has a handle on Peel !

Again why do YOU take aggressive stances and why do you and others elsewhere feel the need to bloke out other views and indeed anyone else from posting to the point of calling them trolls or even attempting to bar them ( especially those with PAID subscription)

Liverpool airport a small regional airport serving a city region as a business it’s not a football team , and some of the management practices are absolutely open for debate and criticism

You might have a differing opinion and I respect that but when a Peel group company owed you £178,000 in unpaid invoices for 120 days you might have a sour taste for that organisation don’t you think ?

Seems however the cabal aren’t satisfied with toxicity elsewhere and are bringing it here as well

[eye2eye5]

90 day terms for invoice payment is pretty standard for a large corporate but 120 days really is taking the ****. It’s about time an enforceable code of conduct was introduced for invoice payment but the chances of that happening at present is zero.

[SWBKCB]

Ruined and closed Sheffield, Ruined and neglected the core operations of Tees side and now at Doncaster - Common thread land values

How did they ruin Sheffield - the market disappeared. What core operations were ruined and neglected at Teesside - the Mayor is implementing Peels masterplan but with a bucketful of tax money.

Liverpool lost their parcel service

Are we talking Royal Mail? If so, again the market disappeared

Liverpool airport a small regional airport serving a city region as a business it’s not a football team

Constant underlying criticism of Peel is that they are a property company and treat their airports as land banks e.g. "Common thread land values". So what's the difference - surely there responsibility is to do what's right for their shareholders.

[lfc84]

Are we talking Royal Mail? If so, again the market disappeared

.
​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels

[SWBKCB]

​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels

I'll re-phrase that - Royal Mail have switched their operation from air to road. That's what I meant by the market disappearing - they no longer had a need for air transport.

[AndrewH52]

Rutan. If my responses come across as aggressive. I apologise. It’s a natural reaction when I feel I am being patronised or gaslit.

I can understand how your past experience with Peel Group has left a bitter taste. It comes through loud and clear in some of your posts.

This was a decent forum for a long time, but no longer, it seems. I’m tired of people dressing opinion up as fact and creating a sense that truth doesn’t matter anymore.

I’ll leave you to it.

[barry lloyd]

I'll re-phrase that - Royal Mail have switched their operation from air to road. That's what I meant by the market disappearing - they no longer had a need for air transport.

That's not strictly true, either. The UK operation is now centred on EMA, where mail (letters and parcels), for distribution throughout the UK, and particularly across water, are moved through a facility there.

[BACsuperVC10]

Lufthansa operated a E 190 on their FRA-LPL again this morning.

[Rutan16]

​​​​​​The market hasn't disappeared. Letters have reduced but it's more than made up for by small packets and small parcels


This with their experience and facilities available apron space and warehousing - Should have got a least one of the consolidators- didnt !

Sheffield market didn’t disappear- Peel made it so

[SWBKCB]

This with their experience and facilities available apron space and warehousing - Should have got a least one of the consolidators- didnt !

So we're playing 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' now

Sheffield market didn’t disappear- Peel made it so

Runway length a thousand feet shorter than LCY? Is there really a market for a runway that length for domestic and near european operations. Used by who?

Liverpool airport a small regional airport serving a city region as a business it’s not a football team

they are the worst aviation business in the UK

But this point never gets answered - "We can argue the toss about the corporate practices of Peel, but the airport site and the areas around it have been transformed compared to what they were." How are you defining best and worst?

[055166k]

I think during that period there was quite a serious crash, when an aircraft went into a neighbouring factory, possibly Lucas.
1965 I think? Viscount accident into Mothax factory. When I worked there all large aircraft banned from rw26 landing and used rw27. Also the B707 (Eli Lilly) would fuel stop at Shannon westbound normally.

[BACsuperVC10]

1965 I think? Viscount accident into Mothax factory. When I worked there all large aircraft banned from rw26 landing and used rw27. Also the B707 (Eli Lilly) would fuel stop at Shannon westbound normally.

Could well be, were there many fatalities ?

[barry lloyd]

Could well be, were there many fatalities ?

Let's have this right, shall we? I was unfortunate enough to see it happen. The two pilots were colleagues of mine, and I was waiting to meet them to go for a drink.
Two other members of staff, who were working late in the factory were also killed. The aircraft, G-AMOL, had been used to carry a backlog of cargo to the Isle of Man because there was a nationwide seaman's strike at the time. The aircraft was returning empty. If there was one piece of good fortune in all this, it was the fact that, because all the cargo was loaded and unloaded by hand, the STD from Speke was delayed, with a consequent delay in the IOM. The accident happened at a few minutes past six. Had the return flight been on time, the factory would have been full of staff. The factory, called Mothaks, produced mothballs, which at the time were made using naphthalene, and thus there were highly flammable goods on the premises.
As ever in these circumstances, numerous theories were put forward (nothing changes, does it?). The remains of the aircraft were taken to Farnborough, but no determinate cause was ever found:
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19650720-0 Note that the timings are GMT, not BST.

1965 I think? Viscount accident into Mothax factory. When I worked there all large aircraft banned from rw26 landing and used rw27. Also the B707 (Eli Lilly) would fuel stop at Shannon westbound normally.

That would have been difficult because runway 27 (the longer runway near the new terminal) was not opened until 1966, so there was no option in the interim but to continue to use 26, as it was known.

[BACsuperVC10]

Let's have this right, shall we? I was unfortunate enough to see it happen. The two pilots were colleagues of mine, and I was waiting to meet them to go for a drink.
Two other members of staff, who were working late in the factory were also killed. The aircraft, G-AMOL, had been used to carry a backlog of cargo to the Isle of Man because there was a nationwide seaman's strike at the time. The aircraft was returning empty. If there was one piece of good fortune in all this, it was the fact that, because all the cargo was loaded and unloaded by hand, the STD from Speke was delayed, with a consequent delay in the IOM. The accident happened at a few minutes past six. Had the return flight been on time, the factory would have been full of staff. The factory, called Mothaks, produced mothballs, which at the time were made using naphthalene, and thus there were highly flammable goods on the premises.
As ever in these circumstances, numerous theories were put forward (nothing changes, does it?). The remains of the aircraft were taken to Farnborough, but no determinate cause was ever found:
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19650720-0 Note that the timings are GMT, not BST.



That would have been difficult because runway 27 (the longer runway near the new terminal) was not opened until 1966, so there was no option in the interim but to continue to use 26, as it was known.


yes now you day the factory was empty rings a bell, that was a stroke of luck on that account.

[BACsuperVC10]

Arrived in Frankfurt en route to Athens. I've now travelled on this new Lufthansa Liverpool to Frankfurt route 3 x returns and 2 singles. My experience is the service has developed well with flights more or less full. Most passengers are transferring, talked to some today going to Basel , Milan and Dubai. 6 rows of business class this morning. I would expect an increased frequency to be coming sometime soon.

[Rutan16]

Arrived in Frankfurt en route to Athens. I've now travelled on this new Lufthansa Liverpool to Frankfurt route 3 x returns and 2 singles. My experience is the service has developed well with flights more or less full. Most passengers are transferring, talked to some today going to Basel , Milan and Dubai. 6 rows of business class this morning. I would expect an increased frequency to be coming sometime soon.

Greenfinch your cover is blown

[BACsuperVC10]

Greenfinch your cover is blown

what cover !! Boarding bye

[BACsuperVC10]

Play began operation today LPL - KEF with onwards US connections. A320 arrived to water canon welcome.

[SWBKCB]

What are the property developers playing at? They've never turn it into a business park at this rate! :=

[Asturias56]

A business Park? In Liverpool? gets hat coat and disguise..................

[barry lloyd]

A business Park? In Liverpool? gets hat coat and disguise..................

Never miss an opportunity to have a knock, eh? Well, I suppose this is PPRuNE after all, so a cheap jibe where Liverpool is concerned is to be expected. Well, just for the record:
https://nicelocal.co.uk/liverpool/mall/type/business_park/

[fanrailuk]

Looks like LPL might get a little busier next May... :ok:

Liverpool has been chosen to host the first Eurovision Song Contest to be held in the UK for 25 years. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63174493)

(...and probably MAN too)

[VickersVicount]

Looks like LPL might get a little busier next May... :ok:

Liverpool has been chosen to host the first Eurovision Song Contest to be held in the UK for 25 years. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63174493)

(...and probably MAN too)
More like- MAN busier (and probably LPL too) !

[BACsuperVC10]

I expect Lufthansa to beef up their schedule, already rumoured.

[Asturias56]

"Never miss an opportunity to have a knock, eh? "

Sorry - I thought the famous Scouser sense of humour could take a small hit......................... apologies

[UnderASouthernSky]

The event is surely no busier than a football match in the city, with the majority of the audience being UK based. Logistics will surely be done by road, so I could only envisage a small increase in foreign scheduled traffic to MAN & LPL and perhaps a few GA at LPL movements on the day.
It's the regions' hotels who will be rubbing their hands.

[Rutan16]

"Never miss an opportunity to have a knock, eh? "

Sorry - I thought the famous Scouser sense of humour could take a small hit......................... apologies

Na a certain few here and elsewhere severely lack humour sorry to say , and certainly not empathy

[Rutan16]

The event is surely no busier than a football match in the city, with the majority of the audience being UK based. Logistics will surely be done by road, so I could only envisage a small increase in foreign scheduled traffic to MAN & LPL and perhaps a few GA at LPL movements on the day.
It's the regions' hotels who will be rubbing their hands.

Much smaller than a Derby -The biggest venues have about 11000 capacity in the city . The festival lasts about a week however only three nights are of importance the two semis and the Saturday final.

Frankly it’s a TV extravaganza in the main .

There are fringe activities that take place of a cultural nature , art stands, food halls that sort of thing and some will travel for those through probably just locals and UK residents with leave to remain; this lovely lady will almost certainly be there eurovision.by.kseniia ( from TikTok fame) waving both a Union Flag and Ukrainian flag she is Ukrainian and has lived here prior to the current war !

There are of course a shed load of TV and Radio jocks and their hangers on , however the broadcast is always by the national broadcaster ( thats the point of Eurovisión) and those will no doubt come from Salford Quays and BBC outside broadcast teams.

It’s a pageant of tat, glamour and dare I say camp and brilliant irony ( love it for the irony alone !)

We may see a visit from Orlena Zelenska and the Ukrainian Airbus 319 I suspect ( would be a nice touch)

[BACsuperVC10]

"Never miss an opportunity to have a knock, eh? "

Sorry - I thought the famous Scouser sense of humour could take a small hit......................... apologies


But an uncalled for post frankly. How about ' well done or congratulations ' instead aye !!?

[gsky]

Right!
But all the small hits" add up, and when you have been hit and heard them all ad infinitum, it becomes.. tedious!
If it funny , and new or novel, go for it but when its the same old same old..

[Rutan16]

But an uncalled for post frankly. How about ' well done or congratulations ' instead aye !!?

Thought I’d posted above about Eurovision in a light hearted way , indeed mentioning very fact the tat, glamour and campness values - sure I will be watching with family, bottle of wine and snacks on the final night , Wife may even have hat as we do for last night of the proms

Why would I congratulate Liverpool in particular through, because for the war it’s would have certainly been in Lviv, Kyiv, or elsewhere.

Did Liverpool City Region cough up some money -IDK

Is it a good choice overall yeah for a relatively small extravaganza and will Liverpool have a great week of fringe events yeah!

Still you never read context or implied irony, just go for the jugular because I am other than a Liverpudlian

BTW the Ukrainian Tik Toker mentioned really is a lovely person you should see her

[BACsuperVC10]

Thought I’d posted above about Eurovision in a light hearted way , indeed mentioning very fact the tat, glamour and campness values - sure I will be watching with family, bottle of wine and snacks on the final night , Wife may even have hat as we do for last night of the proms

Why would I congratulate Liverpool in particular through, because for the war it’s would have certainly been in Lviv, Kyiv, or elsewhere.

Did Liverpool City Region cough up some money -IDK

Is it a good choice overall yeah for a relatively small extravaganza and will Liverpool have a great week of fringe events yeah!

Still you never read context or implied irony, just go for the jugular because I am other than a Liverpudlian

BTW the Ukrainian Tik Toker mentioned really is a lovely person you should see her


I've no idea what your going on about, I wasn't responding to your predictable post.

[Rutan16]

I've no idea what you are going on about, I wasn't responding to your predictable post.

Greenfinch a really unpleasant character that you are !

[BACsuperVC10]

Greenfinch a really unpleasant character that you are !

If you say so, from the man who is all sweetness and light 🙄

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

What is it about aviation forums that brings out the worst in people? Can we stop this nasty sniping PLEASE.

[ATNotts]

What is it about aviation forums that brings out the worst in people? Can we stop this nasty sniping PLEASE.

Problem is that for "airport supporters" and proponents of the "mine is bigger / better than yours" mantra commercial aviation forums become little better than football websites. Of course to treat them as such as ridiculous and juvenile, airports are real businesses, employing real people and operating in the real economy - little of which is true of Premier League football clubs.

[Rutan16]

Problem is that for "airport supporters" and proponents of the "mine is bigger / better than yours" mantra commercial aviation forums become little better than football websites. Of course to treat them as such as ridiculous and juvenile, airports are real businesses, employing real people and operating in the real economy - little of which is true of Premier League football clubs.
Absolutely and when you interdict with genuine critique of a business practice ( not individuals) certain people get a little upset here and another place.
Banned in that other place yet others get away with outright and personal attacks

[Rutan16]

What is it about aviation forums that brings out the worst in people? Can we stop this nasty sniping PLEASE.

All for light hearted debate news positive and negative mixed with criticism of business practices were relevant . And no direct personal attacks in the public space👍

[BACsuperVC10]

The problem with this site and it affects this thread ( you can go back a read it all if you care to ) but ive seen it affects others like SEN, SOU and MME etc, is that a number of posters , and here I'm afraid to say it's certain MAN fans who just want to deride and demean.

It has happened on other sites too, fortunately the moderators are more robust than here, and it isn't tolerated. It's very infantile and the result is you can't have a conversation about anything because you just know it's going to get hijacked, and posting becomes pretty pointless.

[BACsuperVC10]

So attempting to post again, of course Liverpool Airport will see a passenger boost next May for Eurovision 2023, that obvious. Manchester will also see some too. The big issue for the fans arriving is our fragmented transport system outside of the capital. There are regular buses from outside the terminal building to the city, or they can take the train from South Parkway Station. From there they would be safer using the Merseyrail which is reliable. But if they go on one of the other operators like Northern Rail, unless they massively improve before May, they will experience all the cancellation issues which are so common, this is also true for passengers arriving at MAN. Let's not even mention strikes !

[Rutan16]

The problem with this site and it affects this thread ( you can go back a read it all if you care to ) but ive seen it affects others like SEN, SOU and MME etc, is that a number of posters , and here I'm afraid to say it's certain MAN fans who just want to deride and demean.

It has happened on other sites too, fortunately the moderators are more robust than here, and it isn't tolerated. It's very infantile and the result is you can't have a conversation about anything because you just know it's going to get hijacked, and posting becomes pretty pointless.

Good solid and fair moderation demands a PUBLIC presence and initial warning structure and noted terms of use visible to ALL framed to ensure compliance.
Happens here and on the largest aviation site on planet A- NET and indeed should include an appeals process !
None of that applies to that other place and that is primarily why matters get out of hand
That is not robustness, the moderator of the other site is biased and invisible and doesn’t even address matters in the public space.

[BACsuperVC10]

Good solid and fair moderation demands a PUBLIC presence and initial warning structure and noted terms of use visible to ALL framed to ensure compliance.
Happens here and on the largest aviation site on planet A- NET and indeed should include an appeals process !
None of that applies to that other place and that is primarily why matters get out of hand
That is not robustness, the moderator of the other site is biased and invisible and doesn’t even address matters in the public space.

not so, matters get way put of hand on here, nothing happens. People who get banned elsewhere should look at themselves before blaming everyone else. Im not commenting anymore about it, tedious.

[SWBKCB]

tedious.

Finally, something we can all agree on.

[BACsuperVC10]

Wideroe are reinstating there BGO -LPL - BGO link , which stopped due to Covid. Flights are twice a week beginning end of March Mondays and Fridays.

[BACsuperVC10]

Play has now made LPL-KEF in September and October 2023 available on their booking system. Flights don't operate June-August.

[eggc]

I saw Play have appplied for slots at MAN from S23, can't see them operating to both though although applying for slots is far from operating, but interesting none the less.

[BACsuperVC10]

Play now bookable through to November 23, extra flights added in May.

[BACsuperVC10]

New route from Easyjet , summer service to Corfu operating on Sundays from June.

[BACsuperVC10]

Ryanair , will pick up Easyjets Liverpool- Madrid route. Also Ryanair will have Liverpool to Shannon and Liverpool to Ibiza . All from March 2023.

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet have made available LPL-BHD ,twice daily flights bookable up to end Nov 23. Paris CDG is also showing available to end of Nov 23

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet 7 base and Ryanair 4 baae for 2023.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool to Frankfurt to go daily except Saturdays for 2023. Lufthansa.

[BACsuperVC10]

Play have operated with an A321neo twice recently on KEF - .LPL - KEF

[BACsuperVC10]

Aer Lingus returns to Liverpool - Dublin route from 27 April, according to Twitter .

[BACsuperVC10]

Aer Lingus returns to Liverpool - Dublin route from 27 April, according to Twitter .

The service will be daily from.the date about with a second service on Mon , Thurs, fri and Sun from 30 April. ATR 72. Ryanair are offering up to 7 flights a day in the peak. I imagine EI are looking more at transfer Trans-a
Atlantic business.

[BACsuperVC10]

An El Al aircraft will.be bringing the Israeli contingent to Liverpool for Eurovision in May.

[BACsuperVC10]

Aer Lingus returns to Liverpool from tomorrow on the Liverpool - Dublin route. The first flight arrives at 12.15, returning back to Dublin at 13.00. Fridays flight to Dublin is sold out and Mondays services is advertising a oneway fare of an eyewatering £369.18 !

[laviation]

I think anyone with common sense will fly Ryanair to Dublin. This route is geared towards US connecting pax as a singular daily ATR will never complete with multiple daily 737s!

[BACsuperVC10]

El Al operating a B737-900 from TLV-LPL due 12.30 LY211