UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA

[md 600 driver]

UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA

[Jim59]

No. (Seems I have to enter at least 10 characters, but still no.)

See the CAA Transition Microsite for more detail: https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/

[ETOPS]

Now just watch the CAA re-issue all the UK-EASA licences but with a slightly different serial number thus requiring all the FAA piggyback holders to have to have them re-issued :ugh:

[S-Works]

No, we are still out of EASA sadly.

[BONES_]

Fairly self explanatory, from UK CAA website:

“The UK-EU trade deal, announced on 24 December 2020, includes agreements on air transport and aviation safety which are due to come into effect at 23.00 GMT on 31 December 2020 when the UK ceases to take part in the EU Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and other EU institutions.While the agreements involve some elements of continuity, they do not constitute a replication of the UK’s regulatory arrangements as part of the EASA/EU framework. Many sections of the aviation and aerospace industries will face changes after 31 December, as this microsite sets out.”

http://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/

[Pilot DAR]

'Sorry, it reminds me of the question: "If he divorces his wife, will she still be his sister?"...

[ShyTorque]

'Sorry, it reminds me of the question: "If he divorces his wife, will she still be his sister?"...

Possibly, it depends which county you're thinking about.....

[BEagle]

Now just watch the CAA re-issue all the UK-EASA licences but with a slightly different serial number thus requiring all the FAA piggyback holders to have to have them re-issued

No - I asked the CAA about this and was assured that UK Part-FCL licences will retain the same serial number when converted from EU Part-FCL licences.

[arrow28]

Does that mean pilots can now qualify for a UK CAA ATPL?

[BONES_]

Realistically, since mutual recognition is ending on 31st December, IMHO the best outcome for those “falling through the cracks” would be a facilitated bilateral pilot licence conversion mechanism, rather than a full licence conversion. I would suggest something like getting a new medical, sitting airlaw paper and an LST/LPC... et voilà, a brand new stand alone licence.

It seems the EU-UK trade agreement may have that scope in mind:

”Title II - Aviation safety

103. The Agreement is largely in line with precedent and sets out a framework for cooperation on aviation safety, and a process for agreeing Annexes to the agreement that will facilitate recognition of UK and EU certificates, approvals and licences. Areas where the UK and EU could agree Annexes in future include: monitoring of maintenance organisations; personnel licences and training; operation of aircraft; and air traffic management.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948093/TCA_SUMMARY_PDF.pdf
Obviously the more seamless, the better.

And on that note Merry Christmas to you all and Happy New Year!

[A320 Glider]

I still do not understand why we are leaving EASA? For what is the benefit?

[S-Works]

I still do not understand why we are leaving EASA? For what is the benefit?

Absolutely none whatsoever. Apart from a few idiots who think that we have some sort of magnificent aviation industry that will flourish without the oversight of the EU overlords. You know, all this magnificent UK airlines that fly all over Europe. The demand in the training industry for a "coveted" UK licence will provide the whole industry food for generations to come. It will also require a behemoth of CAA oversight, CAA Staff Examiners to make sure we are properly gold plated and doing it correctly etc etc etc..... You get the idea.......

[pax britanica]

Sadly aviation is just one example of Brexit bringing about wasteful pointless bureaucracy and costs for British versions of things that already work perfectly well. Also as we are pretty much completely insignificant as a country who except Uk based entities is going to bother with compliance with any special Uk regulations.
This was demonstrated by UK banks who found that after Brexit they had to have 20 odd licences all across the Eu rather than one Eu licence and many just walked away from European operations.
Mind you if we kick air O Leary out of the Uk that might help prop up BA and easy who are sure as heck going to need it.

[tonker]

Being insignificant doesn’t seem to bother the other 170 non EU countries. Is Australia, Japan or Canada Struggling with its own regulations.

[ak7274]

I seem to recall we left EASA because if we stayed, we would be subject to the ECJ and EASA was a casualty.

[Fl1ingfrog]

Lots of jumping to conclusions. All that is published of the agreement, to date, are the headings together with a broad outline of each. From this summary there is some hope of the mutual recognition of EU/UK training and licenses. Ying and Yang is sure to come.

[TURIN]

I seem to recall we left EASA because if we stayed, we would be subject to the ECJ and EASA was a casualty.
Correct. EASA regulations are enforced by the ECJ. One of the red lines for the leave campaign was the ECJ would have no jurisdiction over UK law.
We will return to the way things were pre 2003.

[BONES_]

https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2020/EN/COM-2020-857-F1-EN-ANNEX-1-PART-1.PDF

have fun!

[BillieBob]

Negotiations are already underway towards a UK/EU BASA allowing mutual recognition of pilot licences. To this end, the UK is unlikely to diverge far (if at all) from the existing EU Aircrew Regulation in the immediate future.

[Fl1ingfrog]

The ECJ doesn.t enforce but resolves issues of law when they are either unclear or are disputed. The ECJ has no means to enforce. The NAA enforce the law through the national courts: in the UK the magistrates courts up to the Supreme Court.

I would hope that we will not go back to pre 2003 the world has moved on. Hopefully in the upcoming weeks some level of mutual recognition will be achieved. It is too early to say what the final outcome will be. The gloom and despondency that is being projected by some is unjustified.

[Ripline]

I have had a notice from my CAMO/CAME that after 1st January 2021 my Part-66 Engineer licence will only be valid for my certification/ARCs for G-reg....

Just loving the new freedoms.....

Ripline

[md 600 driver]

Sadly aviation is just one example of Brexit bringing about wasteful pointless bureaucracy and costs for British versions of things that already work perfectly well. Also as we are pretty much completely insignificant as a country who except Uk based entities is going to bother with compliance with any special Uk regulations.
This was demonstrated by UK banks who found that after Brexit they had to have 20 odd licences all across the Eu rather than one Eu licence and many just walked away from European operations.
Mind you if we kick air O Leary out of the Uk that might help prop up BA and easy who are sure as heck going to need it.

why would you want to kick ryanair out of the UK and go back to the bad days of BA
I use Ryanair at least 15 time per year (in normal non COVID years and never had any problems with them can’t say that about BA who I would only fly with if I had no choice

[S-Works]

Yep, I fly around 100 flights a year with Ryanair as I commute to Spain for my job as well as all the other countries we operate in. I don't like O Leary but you don't have to like hm to fly on his airline and they get me where I need to go at a reasonable rate. I somehow can't see BA starting a 4 times a week flight to Jerez,

[Next Phase]

Correct. EASA regulations are enforced by the ECJ. One of the red lines for the leave campaign was the ECJ would have no jurisdiction over UK law.
We will return to the way things were pre 2003.

But the ECJ also has no jurisdiction over Norway and Switzerland, so can't be a stumbling block.

[wiggy]

But the ECJ also has no jurisdiction over Norway and Switzerland, so can't be a stumbling block.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/08/25/how-the-efta-court-works-and-why-it-is-an-option-for-post-brexit-britain/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTA_Court

[horizon flyer]

But the ECJ also has no jurisdiction over Norway and Switzerland, so can't be a stumbling block.

To be a member of EASA a country must sign up to the ECJ, so they must have jurisdiction in both Norway & Switzerland or would not be in EASA.
This is the reason the UK is leaving EASA the ECJ will have no jurisdiction in the UK.

[wiggy]

Hence the EFTA court, see second link I provided in #26..it appears to provide a cunning "work around" for those countries who have a problem with the ECJ but who would like to retain some access to EU "facilities"

As members of the EEA, the three countries have access to the European single market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market) of the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union). Consequently, they are subject to a number of European laws (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_law). Enforcement of these laws would normally be carried out by the European Court of Justice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice) (ECJ), however there were legal difficulties in giving Union institutions powers over non-members so the EFTA Court was set up to perform this role instead of the ECJ.

[vetflyer]

Is Ryanair still flying to Jerez?

From Where in UK?

Thought stopped years ago

Rgds

[md 600 driver]

Is Ryanair still flying to Jerez?

From Where in UK?

Thought stopped years ago

Rgds


Stanstead I believe sorry stansted

[ETOPS]

Or even Stansted :rolleyes:

[ChickenHouse]

I still do not understand why we are leaving EASA? For what is the benefit?
The chance to do something people can understand?

[S-Works]

Is Ryanair still flying to Jerez?

From Where in UK?

Thought stopped years ago

Rgds

Yep, in a non Covid world 4 times a week. Its how I commute to work!!! Stansted to Jerez.