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UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA

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UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA

Old 24th Dec 2020, 15:09
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UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA

UK EU brexit deal now done does this mean the UK will still be in EASA
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 15:45
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No. (Seems I have to enter at least 10 characters, but still no.)

See the CAA Transition Microsite for more detail: https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/

Last edited by Jim59; 24th Dec 2020 at 16:43.
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 16:37
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Now just watch the CAA re-issue all the UK-EASA licences but with a slightly different serial number thus requiring all the FAA piggyback holders to have to have them re-issued
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 17:12
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No, we are still out of EASA sadly.
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 18:18
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Fairly self explanatory, from UK CAA website:

“The UK-EU trade deal, announced on 24 December 2020, includes agreements on air transport and aviation safety which are due to come into effect at 23.00 GMT on 31 December 2020 when the UK ceases to take part in the EU Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and other EU institutions.While the agreements involve some elements of continuity, they do not constitute a replication of the UK’s regulatory arrangements as part of the EASA/EU framework. Many sections of the aviation and aerospace industries will face changes after 31 December, as this microsite sets out.”

http://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/


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Old 24th Dec 2020, 19:05
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'Sorry, it reminds me of the question: "If he divorces his wife, will she still be his sister?"...
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 19:07
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
'Sorry, it reminds me of the question: "If he divorces his wife, will she still be his sister?"...
Possibly, it depends which county you're thinking about.....
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 23:13
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Now just watch the CAA re-issue all the UK-EASA licences but with a slightly different serial number thus requiring all the FAA piggyback holders to have to have them re-issued
No - I asked the CAA about this and was assured that UK Part-FCL licences will retain the same serial number when converted from EU Part-FCL licences.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 06:55
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Does that mean pilots can now qualify for a UK CAA ATPL?
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 08:18
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Realistically, since mutual recognition is ending on 31st December, IMHO the best outcome for those “falling through the cracks” would be a facilitated bilateral pilot licence conversion mechanism, rather than a full licence conversion. I would suggest something like getting a new medical, sitting airlaw paper and an LST/LPC... et voilà, a brand new stand alone licence.

It seems the EU-UK trade agreement may have that scope in mind:

”Title II - Aviation safety

103. The Agreement is largely in line with precedent and sets out a framework for cooperation on aviation safety, and a process for agreeing Annexes to the agreement that will facilitate recognition of UK and EU certificates, approvals and licences. Areas where the UK and EU could agree Annexes in future include: monitoring of maintenance organisations; personnel licences and training; operation of aircraft; and air traffic management.”

https://assets.publishing.service.go...UMMARY_PDF.pdf
Obviously the more seamless, the better.

And on that note Merry Christmas to you all and Happy New Year!



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Old 25th Dec 2020, 11:15
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I still do not understand why we are leaving EASA? For what is the benefit?
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 15:28
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Originally Posted by A320 Glider View Post
I still do not understand why we are leaving EASA? For what is the benefit?
Absolutely none whatsoever. Apart from a few idiots who think that we have some sort of magnificent aviation industry that will flourish without the oversight of the EU overlords. You know, all this magnificent UK airlines that fly all over Europe. The demand in the training industry for a "coveted" UK licence will provide the whole industry food for generations to come. It will also require a behemoth of CAA oversight, CAA Staff Examiners to make sure we are properly gold plated and doing it correctly etc etc etc..... You get the idea.......

Last edited by S-Works; 26th Dec 2020 at 12:52.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 16:43
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Sadly aviation is just one example of Brexit bringing about wasteful pointless bureaucracy and costs for British versions of things that already work perfectly well. Also as we are pretty much completely insignificant as a country who except Uk based entities is going to bother with compliance with any special Uk regulations.
This was demonstrated by UK banks who found that after Brexit they had to have 20 odd licences all across the Eu rather than one Eu licence and many just walked away from European operations.
Mind you if we kick air O Leary out of the Uk that might help prop up BA and easy who are sure as heck going to need it.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 18:56
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Being insignificant doesn’t seem to bother the other 170 non EU countries. Is Australia, Japan or Canada Struggling with its own regulations.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 21:19
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I seem to recall we left EASA because if we stayed, we would be subject to the ECJ and EASA was a casualty.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 23:24
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Lots of jumping to conclusions. All that is published of the agreement, to date, are the headings together with a broad outline of each. From this summary there is some hope of the mutual recognition of EU/UK training and licenses. Ying and Yang is sure to come.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 02:03
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Originally Posted by ak7274 View Post
I seem to recall we left EASA because if we stayed, we would be subject to the ECJ and EASA was a casualty.
Correct. EASA regulations are enforced by the ECJ. One of the red lines for the leave campaign was the ECJ would have no jurisdiction over UK law.
We will return to the way things were pre 2003.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 10:22
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https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/re...X-1-PART-1.PDF

have fun!
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 10:31
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Negotiations are already underway towards a UK/EU BASA allowing mutual recognition of pilot licences. To this end, the UK is unlikely to diverge far (if at all) from the existing EU Aircrew Regulation in the immediate future.
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Old 26th Dec 2020, 10:41
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The ECJ doesn.t enforce but resolves issues of law when they are either unclear or are disputed. The ECJ has no means to enforce. The NAA enforce the law through the national courts: in the UK the magistrates courts up to the Supreme Court.

I would hope that we will not go back to pre 2003 the world has moved on. Hopefully in the upcoming weeks some level of mutual recognition will be achieved. It is too early to say what the final outcome will be. The gloom and despondency that is being projected by some is unjustified.
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