Can PPL, CPL and IR instructing recommence ? [Archive]

Paul Rice

10th May 2020, 19:26

In his television broadcast at 1900 BST Sunday 10 May 2020 Boris Johnson said "you should go to work if you cannot work from home". Does this instruction from the Prime Minister mean that working within general aviation should now recommence with immediate effect.

Can professional work teaching students for their PPL CPL and IRs recommence if mitigation measures are put in place to prevent the spread of COVID-19 as far as is reasonably practical. Cleaning and decontamination of aeroplanes use of face masks and perhaps screens between the instructor and student such as seen in supermarkets and pharmacies ?

Does the instruction from the Prime Minister to return to work over turn the CAA's blanket ban on GA ?

People have been asked to return to work were they cannot work from home but have been also been told to avoid public transport were possible. On the odd rare occasion were a light aeroplane might feasibly be used to commute longer distances within the UK for work purposes this would seen to be in the spirit of the instruction namely both going to work which we are told we should do also avoiding public transport which we should try and do were possible.

Can a PPL pilot working towards a CPL recommence hour building i.e they are a professional student working towards a professional qualification remaining socially distant and avoiding public transport.

Is it time to responsibly get GA going again ?

BigEndBob

10th May 2020, 20:30

I'm ready to go back.....but is the airport i operate off ready or prepared to open?
They still get rent and parking and Gov. paying their employees, only losing out on fuel sales and a few quid on visitor landing fees.
Why should they be bothered to reopen.

It might some months before the clubs go bust or just give up, or grant cash runs out.

RVR800

10th May 2020, 21:01

At the moment the CAA prohibits Recreational Flying. That may change soon?

Boldpilot2000

10th May 2020, 21:04

I'm ready to go back.....but is the airport i operate off ready or prepared to open?
They still get rent and parking and Gov. paying their employees, only losing out on fuel sales and a few quid on visitor landing fees.
Why should they be bothered to reopen.

Maybe the business paying rent needs the airport to be open in order to service customers and not go bankrupt.

BigEndBob

10th May 2020, 21:08

At the moment the CAA prohibits Recreational Flying. That may change soon?

Do they, i thought was just the good will of the GA community to stay grounded, rare to get a definitive position where the CAA are concerned.
And what's the reason, if the roads are going to be flooded with cars, can't use the excuse that planes falling out of the sky all over the place putting an undue burden on the NHS.

BigEndBob

10th May 2020, 21:09

Maybe the business paying rent needs the airport to be open in order to service customers and not go bankrupt.

They do, but does the airfield care?
Might like to see the back of the clubs and then use that to convince council not viable as airfield and build houses.

RVR800

10th May 2020, 21:24

We will have to wait to see if, when and how the CAA will permit recreational flying

squidie

10th May 2020, 21:30

A PPL instructor for example should be able to return to work. But what students is there to teach because training isn’t permitted yet. I’m going to guess that once schools/universities go back then they will too. Best wait for the CAA guidance.

Genghis the Engineer

10th May 2020, 22:03

No, I don't think it can recommence with immediate effect.

But we should be working hard now on establishing how to get it going up again; things will not be the same as before, be sooner than later we will be able to fly again - we just need to work out how we can do it with a low enough level of oversight and aggro that we can enjoy it and, for those who do, make a living from it.

G

BigEndBob

11th May 2020, 08:45

Nearly everyone i talk to, including me say that they have had some or all the symptoms of covid.
Should we just crack on and get flying and leave it up to individuals to decide if they want to risk sitting in a aircraft with someone else.
I would display a notice saying that if you have been ill recently, like last four weeks, then refrain from flying.
Can't see why solo hire can't go ahead.
What's the greater risk, dying of covid, or in a plane crash.

Herschel Krustofski

11th May 2020, 08:53

Another thread here:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632369-can-general-aviation-restart-now.html

Herschel Krustofski

11th May 2020, 08:54

The law has not changed.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2020 never explicitly instructed Flying Schools to cease business.

However guidance from the CAA and DfT did. This is guidance and not legislation.

2 meter "social distancing" is appended with "if practical". For certain jobs and businesses 2 meters separation will never be practical.

WHO guidlines for workplaces are very measured; emphasising good hand washing and cleaning protocols. They emphasise not coming into work when feeling unwell. There is also detail on protecting and providing information to the vulnerable.

SWBKCB

11th May 2020, 10:29

From gov.uk, published on 31 March, no new update yet.Current government guidance on coronavirus precludes recreational GA flying.

This is being observed in practice by the vast majority of the GA community, and we are grateful to them for doing so. The message we are receiving from the GA community is that they fully appreciate the need for these restrictions, and observing them is being widely encouraged throughout the community. Again, we are grateful for this.

Because the directive to stay at home is being well observed, we do not perceive a need to introduce a specific ban on flying by visual flight rules (VFR) as seen in some European countries.

This will have the significant benefit of allowing flexibility, and allowing GA flights to resume as overarching restrictions on movement are lifted.

The GA team in the Department for Transport is well aware of the structural threat this period of non-activity poses to recreational GA, including with regards to flight training (given that training flights are not currently possible due to directions on social distancing). We are therefore ramping up work to mitigate any long term negative consequences. Similarly, we are taking steps to ensure that when it is safe to do so, we will continue to fully support the GA sector.

In some GA flights, the risk of transmission is undeniably negligible, for example where the flight is a solo flight, from a private airstrip, in which no ground travel is required to access the airstrip. Nevertheless, such flights should not take place, in light of the blanket nature of the directive above, and the risk of an accident resulting in the need for social distancing measures to be abandoned.

While most GA activity occurs in uncontrolled airspace, and therefore does not involve NATS, it is important to remember that, when GA activity resumes, it is likely that some restrictions will still be in place, and pilots should therefore be mindful of the strain their activity places on other essential services.

The lower airspace radar services which NATS provide are also offered on a when possible basis, so could be turned off if necessary. Similarly, access to Class D could also be simply refused by the relevant air navigation service provider.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation

Fl1ingfrog

12th May 2020, 09:53

Whilst it is correct to demand that authorities like the CAA are acting fairly and not over using their powers the UK is not unique in its actions. Our press is appaling in reporting the general state of affairs outside of the UK. To offer an update here, in France, the following has been circulated to flight instructors by the local FFA instructor representative who is keeping us up to date (google translated):

"To follow up on the questions that we have constantly raised with our authorities throughout this period and to prepare their exit" from above ", we officially asked again by letter yesterday to Patrick Gandil, the Director General of Aviation Civilian, what would be the possible obstacles to the resumption of our training flights.

He immediately answered us with the voice of Pierre-Yves Huerre, the Head of the Light, General Aviation and Helicopter Mission (MALGH). New official texts are being prepared for the “aeronautical” deconfinement regulations. The DGAC will inform us, as soon as possible, of the details essential to our light aviation, in particular for instruction flights. Its decisions will then have, alone, value and force of law.

We are therefore also awaiting and hoping for these official texts, and it would be very unwise at this time to rely on information or even to make decisions regarding the resumption of our activities, simply reading press releases not under the authority of the Authority

Francis ARTIGUE

President of ANPI »

BigEndBob

13th May 2020, 07:57

Well it's Wednesday and as far as i can see no airfield has any excuse to be closed regards flying.
Boris told us to go back to work and i can, if the airfield opens.
I have customers queuing up, even if it's just solo hire, desperate to want to go flying.
They want to spend their furlough money!
I will just put a sign on the door, like i should any winter, "If you or family member have been ill in the last month then please stay away from the school". Simple.
Anyone phoning to book a flight will do the same on the phone.
If folks want to wear masks, that is their choice.

RVR800

13th May 2020, 18:12

Fl1ingfrog

14th May 2020, 10:41

The latest from France (FFA representative) received today:

Pending, more and more uncertain, from a press release from the DGAC, what we all expected from our Authority or the Ministry of Transport, in order to remove any ambiguity on "can we or no, fly solo, assisted dual control (for recovery flights) or instruction ”, I suggest you, given the complexity of the many texts and therefore the readings that may be different, to take stock at this time (depending factual information known to me).

Since the end of the confinement taken by Decree n ° 2020-548 allowing the possibilities of displacement and rendering obsolete the measures taken previously, with, it goes without saying, preponderant value concerning the flights on the initial press release from the DGAC, at the beginning of crisis.

IF SANITARY MEASURES TAKEN WITHIN OUR CLUBS (premises, ground and management of protections and barrier gestures in cases where social distancing cannot be guaranteed during thefts) ,

NO PROHIBITION CONTINUES CONCERNING THE USE OF OUR PLANES but within the limit of one hundred km, flight plan is no longer compulsory, usual rules of the air.

At the same time, the Ministry of Sports, which also manages our activity, released on 11/05 / current the "Guide to supporting the resumption of activities" (in attachment).

In it is specified for the period from May 11 to June 2 ;

Resumption of single-seat activity and
Resumption of sports training (aerobatics, precision piloting and air rally) with trips of less than 100 km;

AND

For the instruction, compliance with the principles and recommendations of the DGAC (our only line ministry for this training activity).

Conclusion:

FOR PILOTS, ONLY ONE PERSON ON BOARD (no other pilot pilots or friends, etc.) (Ministry of Sports);

FOR INSTRUCTORS, NO CHANGES, WE CAN ACCOMPANY A PILOT FOR RECOVERY OR INSTRUCTION FLIGHTS (Ministry of Transport - DGAC no ban therefore published as part of the privileges of an FI or FE).

However, it would have been good for our two departments to consult and communicate jointly in order to avoid all of the uncertainty and tension that this created.

And anyway, I want to pay tribute to the FFA and the ANPI for the considerable work they do to maintain and develop our activities and our defense.

BigEndBob

14th May 2020, 12:12

Google : “General Aviation Recreational Flying Covid UK” The 31st March 2020 spiel on gov.uk says no general aviation not allowed
Needs updating at some stage by Gov.uk
Am I missing something???
From Gov.uk"Recreational flyingCurrent government guidance on coronavirus precludes recreational GA flying.

This is being observed in practice by the vast majority of the GA community, and we are grateful to them for doing so. The message we are receiving from the GA community is that they fully appreciate the need for these restrictions, and observing them is being widely encouraged throughout the community. Again, we are grateful for this."

"Because the directive to stay at home is being well observed, we do not perceive a need to introduce a specific ban on flying by visual flight rules (VFR) as seen in some European countries."

We have never been stopped form flying.
If there was ban, they suggest the process to unban would be more long winded. Well of course it would be for jobsworths.

Still i'm getting furlough money, not wearing out my aircraft to earn that cash and who knows when dual flying will recommence.

flyingkeyboard

14th May 2020, 16:24

PPL student here, if I get any more lessons before September I’ll consider that a bonus. Hopefully I’m being overly pessimistic.

Happy Wanderer

14th May 2020, 21:58

....seems pretty clear to me: https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/Newsroom/COVID-19-guidance-for-commercial-and-recreational-aviation/

Click on the 'GA maintenance check flights' link:

Quote:

while the UK Government's social distancing policy is in place the owner or organisation operating the aircraft must maintain a log of all the aircraft movements. As a minimum, this must include the purpose of the flight, the aircraft registration, the pilot and their licence number, the flight's date, time and duration. This log is to be kept and if required provided immediately in electronic form to the CAA.
Only solo flights by fully qualified pilots are permitted. No other flights, including instructional sorties are allowed. Aircraft must not be rented-out or flown for financial gain.

As an FI, how do you safely maintain social distancing in a light aircraft?

HW

BigEndBob

14th May 2020, 22:43

We can't, but it's no different to all the coppers and ambulance crews that have been driving around for the last several weeks.
I travelled to my old home town, nearly every factory and industrial estate was operating, bet a lot of those back street garages aren't social distancing.
Local nationwide tyre shop and fixers working, climbing in and out of customers contaminated cars.

BigEndBob

15th May 2020, 13:05

Looks like GA is on the move, for private owners and hires.
Just now watch airfields drag their feet to open.
So how many members keen to go flying would you trust to fly when some haven't flown for a couple of months and you know they will need a couple of circuits before you let them go.

alfaaloop

15th May 2020, 13:38

Indeed, with everyone out of check now, how do we do the check out flights safely so members can commence their solo hire flights?

Happy Wanderer

15th May 2020, 14:16

Latest Department for Transport steer here:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation#return-to-business-as-usual

Still a no-go I'm afraid....

HW

TheOddOne

15th May 2020, 16:41

I'm interviewing (by phone!) each of our members who fly the Club aircraft. I'm basing my decision as to who can fly solo on their previous experience and the outcome of what they think.

Someone who has previously owned and extensively flown the type and who flew about 2 months ago AND expresses reservations about their recency, I think is a reasonable bet. We'll wait for wind down the strip and good vis and we'll have a chat before they go off. Generally, the flight will be in the local area, no more then 30 mins.
Some other will be waiting until we can fly dual. Sadly, all the students (if we've any left!) will also have to wait.

TOO

BigEndBob

15th May 2020, 18:11

"It is also to be expected that some airfields will require time to implement guidance on making their sites Covid-secure, and that there may therefore be delays to reopening."

Not like they have had several weeks to prepare for this.

SWBKCB

15th May 2020, 20:11

I flew today, the first training flight with a student since the beginning of lockdown.

Hopefully all other ATOs will follow soon.

But training is specifically excluded by the DfT?

Oxflyer

15th May 2020, 20:53

But training is specifically excluded by the DfT?

Apparently not if you are Leading Edge or L3.. ????

Beaker_

20th May 2020, 20:38

The CAA have released CAP1924 today titled COVID 19 – Preparing to Return to Normal Flying Operations for General Aviation Pilot Training Organisations (‘Flying Clubs and Schools’). Hopefully this is a sign of upcoming relaxation of dual training flights...

BigEndBob

20th May 2020, 23:53

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1924%20COVID%2019%20Preparing%20to%20Return%20to%20Normal %20Flying%20Operations%20for%20GA%20Pilot%20Training%20Organ isations.pdf

So pretty much like a bad winter?
If you got the flu, stay at home!
I think the only guarantee of protection are those U2 pressure suits.

Actually the best protection will be a tin hat from all the planes falling out of the sky.
I wonder if hi-viz wards off covid?

And if some schools are being allowed to operate, isn't breaking some anti competition law, preventing competing companies from trading.
Folks might sign up now knowing they are flying when others are grounded.

derekf

21st May 2020, 10:22

Commercial flight training resumes in the UK...

https://www.*****************/2020/05/17/commercial-flight-training-resumes-in-the-uk/
https://bbga.aero/london-oxford-airport-flight-training-resumes-at-leading-edge-aviation/

Wannabedriver

22nd May 2020, 14:38

Nice to see the return of flight training, my experience locally is that a lot of FI's, more particularly examiners would fall into the "vulnerable" category per UK government guidelines (please don't take that as what I consider vulnerable) and may continue to shield - am I likely to struggle to find an examiner for a PPL skills test? If so, anyone think it's likely the CAA would relax guidelines? e.g. My instructor is an examiner but can't currently do my skills test.

Just trying to form a mental picture of how this will return to normal-ish.

Thanks

SWBKCB

22nd May 2020, 14:49

Commercial flight training resumes in the UK...

So this is specific exemptions approved by the CAA based on individual programmes submitted by larger residential schools, rather than a general resumption?

MrAverage

22nd May 2020, 15:23

Yes. And it's very limited at present.

TheOddOne

22nd May 2020, 18:24

I've just seen an advert from a well-known supplier of aviation materials for a face mask made by Tecnam. From the photo and the description, it seems to offer good visibility and protection both from another person's exhalations and yours on them. It could be argued that using such a device effectively extends the distance between people in a cockpit to the equivalent of standard social distancing, though the advert doesn't say this. The picture doesn't include someone wearing a headset. One of our members went flying wearing a surgical mask the other day, sounded quite muffled on the radio.
Using such a device in conjunction with what is effectively contact tracing that we've already worked out might reduce the risk to a very small (but not zero) level.
As Wannabedriver says, most instructors and examiners are regarded as 'vulnerable' by age but all the ones I know get quite shirty at the insinuation they're 'old', even though the youngest of the 5 we have is 61 and 3 are over 70 (eldest 78 and still going strong).

TOO

BigEndBob

23rd May 2020, 08:48

Looks like one of those things people buy and within five minutes take it off and chuck into the back of the aircraft.

Reverserbucket

23rd May 2020, 15:35

So this is specific exemptions approved by the CAA based on individual programmes submitted by larger residential schools, rather than a general resumption?
Yes. And it's very limited at present.

I don't believe the CAA stopped training - the decision to voluntarily suspend training activity was made by training organisations. My understanding is that the resumption of commercial training has been permitted by the DfT and that any exemptions have been granted higher up to enable specific non-civilian contracts held by commercial providers to continue during the last lockdown phase. A general resumption of commercial training and associated ratings is permitted now in any case.

Happy Wanderer

23rd May 2020, 22:09

I don't believe the CAA stopped training - the decision to voluntarily suspend training activity was made by training organisations. My understanding is that the resumption of commercial training has been permitted by the DfT and that any exemptions have been granted higher up to enable specific non-civilian contracts held by commercial providers to continue during the last lockdown phase. A general resumption of commercial training and associated ratings is permitted now in any case.

Says who Reverserbucket? The CAA certainly didn't stop flight training - the government did through the Department for Transport (see link below). By commercial training I presume you mean training for the CPL? In which case social distancing is still an issue on the basis it's all done in a light aircraft. Private or commercial? No difference.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation

HW

Reverserbucket

24th May 2020, 10:23

SWBKCB

24th May 2020, 10:56

They have made a distinction between recreational General Aviation (as described in your link) and commercial training

Wasn't aware of that, do you know if that has been published anywhere or has it just gone from the DfT to ATO's?

Reverserbucket

24th May 2020, 16:20

SWBKCB - Take a look at FLY3R Forums "How do we get training going again" on the GA page; post #1771546

Happy Wanderer

24th May 2020, 21:43

DfT HW. They have made a distinction between recreational General Aviation (as described in your link) and commercial training. How an ATO mitigates risk associated with the current social distancing guidelines is entirely their responsibility however and of course, the individuals involved.

I don't see anything in that link that differentiates between GA and commercial training. Social distancing applies in both contexts. The link states this:

'The GA team in the Department for Transport is well aware of the structural threat this period poses to recreational GA, including with regards to flight training (given that training flights are not currently possible due to directions on social distancing)'

HW

SWBKCB

25th May 2020, 06:57

SWBKCB - Take a look at FLY3R Forums "How do we get training going again" on the GA page; post #1771546

Hmmm - and what is that quote from IAOPA based on? Doesn'r trump the DfT guidance

derekf

25th May 2020, 12:27

https://www.*****************/2020/05/17/commercial-flight-training-resumes-in-the-uk/
https://bbga.aero/london-oxford-airport-flight-training-resumes-at-leading-edge-aviation/

And an extract from the DfT from the frontline article...The DfT have now told us: “Organisations are allowed to conduct training in this sector because commercial pilots/crews are viewed as ‘critical workers’ and are needed to maintain cargo and repatriation flights, and other essential aviation transport services. We have adopted a similar approach to the operation of driving schools where lessons and tests continue to be allowed for critical workers, but are suspended for all other candidates.”

jez d

3rd Jun 2020, 11:38

DfT's announcement concerning training resumption for commercial pilot cadets is a fudge. When DfT issued their last piece of guidance stating that training couldn't resume, they hadn't realised that the CAA had just provided Leading Edge Aviation at Oxford with a letter of no objection, when LEA wrote to them stating that they intended to resume training, and provided the Authority with details as to how they would manage it in a responsible manner.

Note, this was not an approval from the CAA for LEA to resume training, as they don't have the authority to approve resumption of training (that power lies with central government), and can only issue guidance, which is why I think their guidance for maintenance check flights was an omnishambles, given that the terminology was definitive rather than advisory - 'you must, you must not, you are only permitted, etc'.

When it was brought to the DfT's attention that commercial flight training was resuming due to the CAA endorsing LEA's impressive return-to-work plan, DfT came up with the critical worker definition for commercial pilot cadets.

The reason I says it's a fudge is because a) defining a cadet pilot as a critical worker is stretching the definition of critical worker to the outskirts of Barnard Castle, and b) this 'approval' ignores the modular training route, which requires the resumption of grass-roots PPL training for those commercial pilot cadets not rich enough to pay to go down the integrated training route to reach their 'critical worker' status.

RVR800

19th Jun 2020, 11:27

Level 3
Today the Government reduced the Coronavirus
Alert Level to 3
When does Instructing recommence?
Is that Level 2 or 1 ?????

MrAverage

19th Jun 2020, 13:09

Whatever Level 3 means, the definition will be in very poor English...............

flyingkeyboard

19th Jun 2020, 19:34

I’ve seen a mask on several SM posts. It’s being marketed as a possible solution to allow safe flight training. To be honest I don’t want to have to wear a darth Vader mask whilst learning to fly.

Anybody in the know?

RVR800

20th Jun 2020, 07:25

No one knows when, how, where, who or what will be allowed as yet.

Its a complete mystery

Herschel Krustofski

20th Jun 2020, 10:11

I think that there was nothing explicitly preventing flying schools operating in the legislation. The issue was always the restriction of movement element within the law. Being outside the home to attend a flying lesson possibly could not be defined as a reasonable excuse. This section has now has been altered substantially, and the English law seems now only to restrict being away from home overnight (section 6).

Everyone seems to be waiting for guidance that is never forthcoming, as those who issue the guidance never want to commit and, I also believe, don't understand the law. That is why we see guidance saying that things are now permitted when under the law they had never been banned in the first place.

The only solution is to return to looking hard at the law.

Section 7 states that a reasonable excuse (for gathering) is if it,

"takes place at an educational facility and is reasonably necessary for the purposes of education."

It does not appear to define what an educational facility is, or what is reasonably necessary for the purpose of education. Note it says reasonably necessary for the purpose of education, not that that education must be reasonably necessary. This is a very important differentiation.

It is easy to see why CPL schools, are comfortable to restart, but by the same token there is nothing explicit saying that an organisation that is advertising itself as a flying school cannot educate (train) PPL students. Remember the law is written to prevent things as opposed to approve things; however it appears to be constructed here in a way that not only doesn't prevent flight training but approves of educational gatherings which flight training is not excluded from.

RVR800

20th Jun 2020, 16:59

Return to business as usualThe general aviation sector is an important contributor to skills, jobs and growth. This government is committed to helping this important STEM sector back on its feet after restrictions are lifted.

The GA team in the Department for Transport is well aware of the structural threat this period poses to recreational GA, including with regards to flight training (given that training flights are not currently possible due to directions on social distancing). We are therefore working closely with the sector to mitigate any long term negative consequences. Similarly, we are taking steps to ensure that when it is safe to do so, we will continue to fully support the GA sector.

RVR800

20th Jun 2020, 17:30

It’s social distancing that’s the problem. Even if One Metre is agreed it’s not enough for GA.

Herschel Krustofski

20th Jun 2020, 18:18

due to directions on social distancing

Returning to the law, can you show me where physical distancing is mandated?

Understandably there is confusion between the law and guidance. You MUST follow the law, you may follow guidance.

If the individual does not feel comfortable taking lessons, in the present climate, that is absolutely fair enough. However that choice should be left for the individual who should be empowered with the facts.

Interestingly the 2 meter physical distancing theory comes from research carried out in the 1930s.

A pragmatic approach would be one that follows the precautions that were applied during the last pandemic which had broadly similar infection fatality figures in the UK, which occurred in 1999-2000. If you remember the measures applied then, you will know what I mean.

RVR800

20th Jun 2020, 19:19

Some Driving Schools are hoping to be allowed to restart 06/07/20 - they can only train key workers at the moment. They share the same social distancing constraints.

Regarding the law it’s guidance - not the law. Nevertheless it is being complied with due to people wanting to follow Public Health Guidance and get rid of this dreadful virus. It’s highly infectious and having had it I know. If I had carried on Instructing I probably would have infected many people - some vulnerable.
We are in a much better position now as a country. We need to be ultra cautious nevertheless

Herschel Krustofski

20th Jun 2020, 21:58

Like influenza, SARS CoV, MERS CoV, the fact is SARS CoV2 will always be with us.

Sensible, pragmatic, workable and voluntary precautions should be taken by those most at risk. If you don't feel comfortable continuing you should not.

However the public health response now is having, and will continue to have, massive detrimental impacts to wider public health, the economy, our children's education and society.

The situation for the country is not improving, the problems have only just begun.

It is a shame that the public has never been as biddable to public health advice concerning the nations (by far) more prevalent killer, heart disease.

RVR800

23rd Jun 2020, 15:31

Still no clarity on Flight Instruction ( hair cuts are allowed now though )

timprice

24th Jun 2020, 07:27

I think RV800 is right when the green light is given to driving instructors and examiners then we will also be ok to resume,
basically following similar guidelines.
This whole situation is difficult to resolve for so many different reasons, nothing will be right for everyone.:{

BigEndBob

24th Jun 2020, 07:53

Still no clarity on Flight Instruction ( hair cuts are allowed now though )
I wonder if i can continue teaching if my student is a barber?

BigEndBob

24th Jun 2020, 07:55

I had a student who was trying to learn holding patterns, with timing , etc.
He shook his head and said i can't get my head around that, i'm only a hairdresser!

Whopity

24th Jun 2020, 08:22

If you have tandem cockpits and put the Barber in the back you can kill two birds with one stone.

Kemble Pitts

24th Jun 2020, 08:54

If you have tandem cockpits and put the Barber in the back you can kill two birds with one stone.

Now that is one of the best ideas I've heard of late.

RVR800

24th Jun 2020, 17:40

It looks like flight instruction has not being given a date for restart...

genrebegoode

25th Jun 2020, 14:18

According to the BBC, driving lessons will resume in England from July 4th (bbc [dot] co.uk/news/uk-53181394). You'd think that this would mean that flight instruction can start up again, too—but I'm not holding my breath for common sense to prevail.

RVR800

25th Jun 2020, 15:38

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53181394

This must allow GA Instructing to restart?

xrayalpha

25th Jun 2020, 17:12

Today's talk is that, since three ATOs are now operating in England, Tayside and ACS at Perth are now going to start training on Monday.

Neither ACS or Tayside have phones that get answered, so have been unable to confirm.

Well, this is a rumour network.....!

TheOddOne

25th Jun 2020, 17:57

Previously, AOPA have taken the lead on nudging the DfT and CAA for guidance, so I'm expecting a sensible announcement from Martin Robinson to all the AOPA Corporate members well before the 4th, so we can get prepared.

TOO

BigEndBob

25th Jun 2020, 18:08

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53181394

This must allow GA Instructing to restart?

Well if they can restart then so should flying. Keeping a window open might be a problem.

RVR800

26th Jun 2020, 12:27

I reckon the driving instructor association and the industry has made a good job of lobbying Govt.

Thats a great help for the Driving Instructors

jez d

26th Jun 2020, 14:16

Flying training to resume in England from 04 July:

From Flight Training News:

It has been confirmed today that flying training can resume in England from 04 July.

In a letter to General Aviation associations, David Harding, DfT Deputy Director, General Aviation, Skills, Safety and CAA Division, wrote: “Following the Prime Minister’s announcement earlier this week about changes to lockdown measures, I can confirm that the reopening of GA businesses and the safe restart of General Aviation dual and instructional flights will be permitted from 04 July 2020 in England.

“We will be publishing updated guidance around recreational GA flying on the GOV.UK website as soon as possible. In the meantime, it may be helpful to view the COVID-19 Secure guidelines (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19) that the Government has already published which set out guidance to help employers, employees and the self-employed understand how to work safely during the coronavirus pandemic.

“Many thanks for all your engagement on this and other matters over the last few weeks and months – we know there is a lot going on and more to do – and it has been appreciated.”

UK devolved nations have yet to confirm when they will be following suit.

Herschel Krustofski

26th Jun 2020, 15:16

Although this guidance is directed towards England my assumption is it applies to Scotland as well, as AOPA had previously communicated with Transport Scotland about GA in Scotland. A Mr Michael Bratcher, who is in Aviation Policy for Transport Scotland wrote that,

"The Scottish Government will not be publishing specific guidance in relation to General Aviation"

He then provides direction to the UK guidelines, stating,

"The Department for Transport has, however, published guidance that you may wish to be aware of."

As that guidance is now, thankfully, changing, this indicates that DfT guidance is applicable to Scottish flight instruction.

https://www.aopa.co.uk/covid-19-information/general-aviation-in-scotland.html

Happy Wanderer

29th Jun 2020, 14:11

genrebegoode

29th Jun 2020, 16:52

Any knowledge on the legitimacy of last Friday's announcement as there's some doubt now it's not genuine and both the DfT and CAA websites have still not been updated since June 4th. The CAA were not aware of the policy change when I rang them today.

HW I don't have any new info, but Stapleford (flysfc.com) seems to think the latest announcement is legit. The DfT site says an update to the general aviation guidance is imminent; we might have to wait for that to be 100% sure.