Ryanair to cut 3,000 jobs

[Adambrau]

And on it goes.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-ryanair-to-slash-up-to-3-000-jobs-over-covid-19-crisis-11981526

[kpd]

And on it goes.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-ryanair-to-slash-up-to-3-000-jobs-over-covid-19-crisis-11981526


O Leary prediction for the industry -" Ryanair said its flights will remain grounded until "at least July" and passenger numbers will not return to 2019 levels "until summer 2022 at the earliest".

[Livesinafield]

O Leary prediction for the industry -" Ryanair said its flights will remain grounded until "at least July" and passenger numbers will not return to 2019 levels "until summer 2022 at the earliest".

For once I agree with O'Leary, think hes got that spot on, how some airlines think there is going to be any demand for air travel this year I do not know.

[MCDU2]

Click bait, change the title. You missed the "Up to". Most aren't his employees anyway and are employed through intermediaries. Its like when he opens a new base and the magic number is up to 1,000 new jobs to be created. These magic new jobs have never been quantified as far as I can see.

[BoeingLudo737]

Click bait, change the title. You missed the "Up to". Most aren't his employees anyway and are employed through intermediaries. Its like when he opens a new base and the magic number is up to 1,000 new jobs to be created. These magic new jobs have never been quantified as far as I can see.

1000 new jobs created refers to direct and indirect jobs i.e. airport staff so on and so forth.

[macdo]

Also threatening to shut Lauda Vienna base unless staff take pay cut and new T&C's.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ryanair-threatens-shut-laudas-main-101413052.html

[Superpilot]

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

[Contact Approach]

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

If only! I've found a large % of those joining RYR will sacrifice themselves for next to nothing just to fly the shiny jet. It really is this industries downfall. Lemmings...

[hec7or]

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

Valid point, but who will define " when this is all over"? Will it be when a vaccine is rolled out or when Social Distancing ends or when the economy recovers?

[Superpilot]

When this is all over = when social distancing measures are completely relaxed for air travel. And, though we love to accuse those at the bottom of the ladder of taking up any old offer, the reality is not always quite so. Besides, that's for those on the top end of the ladder to address and ensure!

[BoeingLudo737]

If only! I've found a large % of those joining RYR will sacrifice themselves for next to nothing just to fly the shiny jet. It really is this industries downfall. Lemmings...

You should be ashamed of yourself and banned from this forum.

[eiffel]

Do we have details by categories for these 3000 job losses? (FD, CC, ….) What is the split between mainline and Buzz?

[Airbubba]

Do we have details by categories for these 3000 job losses? (FD, CC, ….) What is the split between mainline and Buzz?

From today's memo:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1608x538/ryr_job_cuts_8bb4a63774b903f7b0548caa5a8c60b611c45cf4.jpg

[PilotLZ]

I have a sneaky feeling that this is a step towards the "old" employment model of RYR, when only the highest-standing TRE, TRI etc had direct contracts with the company. Now's the opportunity to axe the majority of direct contracts, hence get rid of pretty much everyone who gets a base salary, regardless actual flight time. And then, as demand picks up, everyone will be hired on a zero-hour contract with a reduced hourly rate. Quite possible, I think.

[Sqwak7700]

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

Thats like telling a man stranded in the dessert that if he comes across a person Offering water, he should refuse unless it is Evian. You are funny.

Might want to brush up on understanding supply and demand. The coming years are gonna be reeeeeeeeaaaaly tough for people of your mind set.

[OMAAbound]

Everyone promise yourselves now. When this is all over, you will not settle for a penny less than what you were being paid as of January 2020!

I fear this is MOL's 'why should they be paid so much, they're just glorified bus drivers' moment.

Many people, I and most likely yourself included, will have a different opinion on this when the mortgage company are banging on the door wanting the house back!

The Simple answer is ‘Supply and Demand’

OMAA

[Tommy Gavin]

Is it 3000 actual jobs or does it also include the self employed work group?

[fab777]

, once the state aid crack cocaine wears off. Karma to you CA.

Ryanair living mostly on subsidies from local communities and fee returns from airports, that is a funny comment.

[lederhosen]

Using a rough metric of five crews per short haul aircraft that sounds like about a reduction of 100 planes from a fleet of 450. This is in the same ball park percentage wise as BA's announcement of 12,000 redundancies. So two big players are saying they expect to be operating at around 75% the previous level, once things start up again. Obviously this is a best guess as nobody has any idea what things will look like post lockdown. Given the possibility of little or no foreign tourism for the rest of the year and curtailed business travel this might even be a bit optimistic in the short term.

[wisecaptain]

So with Union recognition in RYR , how will they implement LIFO with all the different bases ?
Im guessing with base closures there will be by seniority, a lot of base re-allocation and commuting required so as to keep the seniority system intact.
Will RYR honour seniority bearing in mind the importance of losing your job ??

[dirk85]

Since when is Ryanair a seniority based company?

[skyflyer737]

Since when is Ryanair a seniority based company?

Since the various seniority agreements were signed with the unions around Europe.

[dirk85]

Since the various seniority agreements were signed with the unions around Europe.

I don't know about the other CLAs but nothing in the Italian contract says anything about redundancies or seniority lists.
Legislation in every country is different when it comes to that.

And for the record, the same in easyJet, there is no published seniority list in any country, and no agreement regulating possible redundancies either.

[Douglas Bahada]

In easyJet there is a de facto seniority list and is shown by staff number.

[dirk85]

Sure, having a staff number is the same thing as stipulating a legally binding redundancy policy based on seniority in a company with branches and employees in 6 or 7 different countries with different legislations. Right.

[Saulman]

Maybe I’m missing something. But isn’t this the airline that essentially saved Boeing in 2001, and tends to grow in crisis. This is certainly unprecedented, it’s worse than 9/11 or 2008 for the industry. The key word is up to and MOL seems to be pushing hard on governments for tax adjustments etc. However, in the wake of this Norwegian based on their proposals won’t be in the market, if Stelios gets his way EasyJet are smaller, and if BA follow through on LGW. LGW as an example is a relatively empty place..MAN has no Flybe base or Thomas Cook within 6 months. I’m not sure any other airline in the world could capitalise on a crisis like Ryanair. There may well certainly be base closures, job cuts and so on. But at the end of this you’re potentially looking at an airline that wreck havoc of what’s left behind after Covid19. Ryanair will need it’s pilots to fill those holes and capitalise within 12 months. I understand the rhetoric is to despise Ryanair on this forum, but I just thought I’d throw out an alternative view.
In another unpopular sentence, MOL has been extremely accurate in everything he has said to press. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.

[Tommy Gavin]

. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.

No he will not. He is just using it for propaganda.

[Jwscud]

Sure, having a staff number is the same thing as stipulating a legally binding redundancy policy based on seniority in a company with branches and employees in 6 or 7 different countries with different legislations. Right.

BA and BALPA have a legally binding agreement on redundancy that BA are threatening to completely ignore. I have little doubt Ryanair would act how they please and take any lumps down the line. They are past masters at expanding and contracting bases due to “costs” while the flying doesn’t actually change.

[Smithy175]

LIFO, why would Ryanair adopt this considering quite a lot of most recent starters emanated from the cadet scheme where Ryanair covered the cost of the training in exchange for 5k euro and bonding for 5 years

In addition cadets are the lowest paid, wouldn't make economical sense to just let the lowest paid individuals to walk away with a free type rating and hundreds of hours on type

The memo also stated "3000 job losses and/or pay cuts", cannot understand why you would include and/or, is this a provocation from Ryanair to get a reaction from UK or Irish government to give them some form of financial support by cutting airport taxes

Would not be surprised if MOL manages to get another large order in for Max aircraft at lower prices when Boeing are on their knees

[Hawker400]

LIFO, why would Ryanair adopt this considering quite a lot of most recent starters emanated from the cadet scheme where Ryanair covered the cost of the training in exchange for 5k euro and bonding for 5 years

In addition cadets are the lowest paid, wouldn't make economical sense to just let the lowest paid individuals to walk away with a free type rating and hundreds of hours on type

The memo also stated "3000 job losses and/or pay cuts", cannot understand why you would include and/or, is this a provocation from Ryanair to get a reaction from UK or Irish government to give them some form of financial support by cutting airport taxes

Would not be surprised if MOL manages to get another large order in for Max aircraft at lower prices when Boeing are on their knees

But they did. Myself and everyone in both Ryanair and sister airlines have been let go (varies at what stage of training you were in but assume anyone that haven't completed the line check) with training fees + bonds completely written off, could be a gesture of goodwill but also saving themselves from the legal hassle of not offering work as there is none available (one of the clauses of the bond agreement).

I completed my base training 10 days before the airline let us go. Walking away with a free type rating doesn't sound so nice when all you have is 1hr in the RHS and 6 touch and goes.

Regarding your last point that's more wishful thinking than I'd be comfortable sharing at the moment.

[kpd]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/ryanair-see-996-drop-in-passengers-as-flights-grounded-997672.html

40,000 flights per month down from 13.5 million!

[UAV689]

Deadline for new boeing deal aparently mid may according to Mol on reuters.

I think the only job cuts maybe from a smaller bases, or perhaps the closure of loss making lauda.

MoL and ryr do very well out of these once in a generation type events. Boeing are on their knees and will no doubt start a buy one get one free on the max!

For the past 2 years every single memo from hq to staff has been threatening job cuts, he has begrudged the payrises crews received in the wake of the mass exodus of staff on 2015-2016, ever since then he has been trying to get the salary bills back down.

I expect minimal losses, but perhaps haircuts and enforced unpaid leave spells. Until there is a cancellation of the 150+ orderbook, I do not envisage many cuts.

[Bravo Zulu]

Deadline for new boeing deal aparently mid may according to Mol on reuters.

I think the only job cuts maybe from a smaller bases, or perhaps the closure of loss making lauda.

MoL and ryr do very well out of these once in a generation type events. Boeing are on their knees and will no doubt start a buy one get one free on the max!

For the past 2 years every single memo from hq to staff has been threatening job cuts, he has begrudged the payrises crews received in the wake of the mass exodus of staff on 2015-2016, ever since then he has been trying to get the salary bills back down.

I expect minimal losses, but perhaps haircuts and enforced unpaid leave spells. Until there is a cancellation of the 150+ orderbook, I do not envisage many cuts.

I agree.. MOL will be plotting world domination timed well for the ramp up in demand.. cheap Boeing's and crew on reduced wages to minimise job losses initially which will be the new norm once the airline expands.

[vikingivesterled]

If Ryanair sticks to the all planes have to be at least 90% full business model it will take a long time before they'll come back. Many potential customers just won't be comfortable with being that close to others for a while. Other airlines will return faster and have a good foothold before Ryanair again can crowd the skies. And they won't be the only ones returning with reduced wages.

Boeing has secured a lot of additional funding for the crisis. Will they see any point in making up the numbers or will they hold out for a better price. Specially since they have nothing airworthy to neither sell nor deliver to them at the moment. Usually these deals if they come to anything are announced as a fait accompli. Theis time it is more like a toe in the water from the Ryanair side. And it is not like Ryanair need to go via the press for Boeing's attention.

[dboy]

However i don’t like Ryanair as a company nor employer, i do think it is a strong brand which is financially very solid. The biggest hurdle they have to overcome is the protectionism raising over the European continent. Eg: when LH is now negotiating with the German State i can perfectly imagine that during these the negotiations, names like Ryanair, easyjet and wizz are spoken out and the fear of their competition and market share, leading to the possible result that LH would be unable to pay the credits back and cutting even more jobs.

And of course, ms Merkel wants to see “her” tax money back so why not protecting the german market??

I foresee much harder rules to enter markets for foreign companies to protect legacy companies.

[Smithy175]

With Virgin pulling out of Gatwick, BA considering this option post pandemic and struggling Norwegian limiting traffic movement until April 2021, is there a possibility that Ryanair could be looking to purchase discounted slots from cash stressed airlines, upping their traffic within southern UK and then closing the 'regional hubs' within that area that the memo referred too?

Wizz Air seem to have expansion in their horizons this summer opening up more routes to Greece, Portugal and the recently announced Dubai route, Ryanair could be considering this as a time to capitalise as well during this difficult period; you don't accumulate 4 billion of cash on your balance sheet with luck and precautionary economics in any industry particularly an industry so volatile as aviation with such low margins.

I would say MOL still has an eye on his 5 year prize...it is more than worth his while to try get capacity back to pre-covid levels in the interim, whilst getting heavily discounted aircraft from Boeing (who else are they currently selling too, they are just taking cancelled or deferred Max orders) Max may not be available for another year, then they could start taking delivery of more aircraft in 2-3 years based on the deals he can strike now, production takes time.. if traffic levels return to pre-covid levels which is suggested by IATA economic reports, he has upped his ASK's, possibly increasing market share and share price and having one up on many players within the market who are currently fire fighting, for now try get European governments to suspend Air duty taxes, take no unnecessary aid from Governments and then they will have no long term obligations to pay in the foreseeable unlike competitors..

[kontrolor]

its about time Ryanair goes under, and post covid world will probably thin the lines of LCC.... Ryanair is symbol of what all is wrong in modern aviation today...

[Saulman]

If Ryanair sticks to the all planes have to be at least 90% full business model it will take a long time before they'll come back. Many potential customers just won't be comfortable with being that close to others for a while. Other airlines will return faster and have a good foothold before Ryanair again can crowd the skies. And they won't be the only ones returning with reduced wages. .

Utter nonsense. I suggest you read the shareholder report to see where Ryanair sit in terms of cost per pax in comparison to others. I think it’s the competitors who can’t fly empty airplanes.
The only airline who can possibly grow from this, is Ryanair. £5.99 to Alicante will usually sway people’s opinions after being locked like a rat for months.
Many hate the thought of Ryanair. Yet, somehow I believe in the near future I’m going to have an ex BA/VA for company in the flight deck.

I just don’t see anyone ordering airplanes this year, other than Ryanair.. 2001 springs to mind. With Boeing cutting jobs, orders being cancelled I’m sure there’s a discussion to be had. London Gatwick would beg Ryanair to come back at this rate with a base.

I agree with the previous two posts, I can see Lauda having lay offs, possibly a few smaller base closures. The obvious way to cut the pay, is to remove the productivity bonus.

[wisecaptain]

Cant imagine there will be any requirement for pilot recruitment in RYR for at least a year ,let alone any intake of non-rated pilots from BA or VS in the near future. I would hazzard a guess the new contracts would require money down or bonding for 3 yrs and would probably be paid per hour.Salaries will be a long lost memory?

[macdo]

Utter nonsense. I suggest you read the shareholder report to see where Ryanair sit in terms of cost per pax in comparison to others. I think it’s the competitors who can’t fly empty airplanes.
The only airline who can possibly grow from this, is Ryanair. £5.99 to Alicante will usually sway people’s opinions after being locked like a rat for months.
Many hate the thought of Ryanair. Yet, somehow I believe in the near future I’m going to have an ex BA/VA for company in the flight deck.

I just don’t see anyone ordering airplanes this year, other than Ryanair.. 2001 springs to mind. With Boeing cutting jobs, orders being cancelled I’m sure there’s a discussion to be had. London Gatwick would beg Ryanair to come back at this rate with a base.

I agree with the previous two posts, I can see Lauda having lay offs, possibly a few smaller base closures. The obvious way to cut the pay, is to remove the productivity bonus.

Survey tonight on Newsnight suggested that 62% of the UK population feel uncomfortable about using public transportation. If peeps are nervy about a 10 min bus ride extrapolate that out to a 4 hr run to TFS in a sardine can. The only way this will play out is a massive contraction of the industry to 1970's levels and a recovery after a vaccine is developed.

[Capt Scribble]

I am not confident in a quick recovery. But a number of recent viruses have just disappeared. MoL will be there to take up the slack as soon possible and be one of the few winners from the present crisis.

[RoyHudd]

TV surveys are notoriously inaccurate. Never hold too much store by them.

Once restaurants and bars are free to open, without space restrictions, air travel demand will come bouncing back.

As soon as hotels open, public transport operates normally, the people will not bother at all about air travel.

The issue is whether the aircraft are there, whether the pilots, crew and groundstaff are there, and whether the borders are open.

I believe and hope that this all happens quickly. Sadly, the pay for our colleagues/former colleagues may be pitiable. I hope not, but expect so.

[vikingivesterled]

Utter nonsense. I suggest you read the shareholder report to see where Ryanair sit in terms of cost per pax in comparison to others. I think it’s the competitors who can’t fly empty airplanes.


I am well aware that Ryanair states they have the lowest costs in the industry. But that has nothing to do with my post. Everybody can fly profitably at 66% load. They just need a higher average fare.
O'leary is running his can't keep midle seat free line because according to him Ryanair can't make a profit with it. If he is unwilling og unable to recalculate what he needs to take to make a profit at 66% load and therefore keeps his planes grounded until he can sell the whole plane, others will be recovering faster by offering a more atractive proposition in a time where many potential passengers are looking more towards availability of social distancing than price sensitivity.
Ryanair could still find a price point under these airlines new higher level and attract pasengers if they are willing to accept the social distancing ground lules, or make alternative arrangements of physical separation instead of distancing.

[cashash]

I am well aware that Ryanair states they have the lowest costs in the industry. But that has nothing to do with my post. Everybody can fly profitably at 66% load. They just need a higher average fare.


True but how do you get 66% load?. To get 2 meters separation that takes the load down to 40% or less. For any airline to run a profitable operation on 40% load factor the prices will need to be astronomical - basically you are talking about the whole aircraft having 1st class densities.

[vikingivesterled]

True but how do you get 66% load?. To get 2 meters separation that takes the load down to 40% or less. For any airline to run a profitable operation on 40% load factor the prices will need to be astronomical - basically you are talking about the whole aircraft having 1st class densities.

Prices don't have to be astronomical, just 50% higher than before at 66% load = middle seat free. Probably a bit less because you don't need it for same household parties dividable in threes. If you wanted for extra sellability you could cover the separation between rows with physical separation instead of distance separation uwing the old class divider curtains. There are so many aircrafts parked now there must be lots of them laying around, at least at other airlines than Ryanair.
I have previously also suggested adding a similar physical divider between the seats in a row for complete cocooning to get the load back up to 100%. Something that physically divides the shared armrest and up to a bit over seat height. A bit less needed of that since parties from yjr same houshold wouldn't need it.
Yes physical separation using solid walls already exists in 1'st class these days. So extending the principe allso to all seats in an economy cabin could be approved faster due to precedense.

[cashash]

Prices don't have to be astronomical,


Well you can argue over what constitutes astronomical but take an example of a 150 seat airbus doing a sector where the current ticket price is $50. That gives a total income for that sector at $7,500 which now instead of being divided by 150 paying punters is only divided by 60 which pushes that $50 ticket up to $125.

Is there a market for that much flying at that increase in price?

[Saulman]

I am well aware that Ryanair states they have the lowest costs in the industry. But that has nothing to do with my post. Everybody can fly profitably at 66% load. They just need a higher average fare.
O'leary is running his can't keep midle seat free line because according to him Ryanair can't make a profit with it. If he is unwilling og unable to recalculate what he needs to take to make a profit at 66% load and therefore keeps his planes grounded until he can sell the whole plane, others will be recovering faster by offering a more atractive proposition in a time where many potential passengers are looking more towards availability of social distancing than price sensitivity.
Ryanair could still find a price point under these airlines new higher level and attract pasengers if they are willing to accept the social distancing ground lules, or make alternative arrangements of physical separation instead of distancing.

The notion of a middle side being empty, is madness. He’s right for not entertaining the idea before someone starts thinking they’re onto a winner.
It’s like trying to argue to install cages on the London Underground to separate people.
The onus needs to be on the airports to screen passengers, temperature checks and possible testing when that improves to quicker result time. It’s impossible to separate people in a tube, how do you go to the toilet without being less than 2m, how do you board and disembark. The list is pretty endless. There also needs to be a social responsibility wearing a mask, frequently cleaning hands etc. Also hopefully you’d hope a home test could give an effective result before going to the airport or flying.
You can certainly mark up a 66% load price, but those passengers don’t tend to fly with Ryanair anyway. You’re putting the prices up considerably which is the exact opposite of what Ryanair will do when borders open. MoL has already suggested he’s planning a price war to undercut the rest of Europe.
EasyJet as an example are traditionally more expensive before taking out the middle seat, before even discussing legacy carriers.
Once bars and hotels are allowed to open in Europe, people will return in numbers. There is many many people who, if they could would fly on holidays tomorrow. Look at the British rags, they’re more concerned when they can get to Benidorm or Faro again than deaths.

[macdo]

Prices don't have to be astronomical, just 50% higher than before at 66% load = middle seat free. Probably a bit less because you don't need it for same household parties dividable in threes. If you wanted for extra sellability you could cover the separation between rows with physical separation instead of distance separation uwing the old class divider curtains. There are so many aircrafts parked now there must be lots of them laying around, at least at other airlines than Ryanair.
I have previously also suggested adding a similar physical divider between the seats in a row for complete cocooning to get the load back up to 100%. Something that physically divides the shared armrest and up to a bit over seat height. A bit less needed of that since parties from yjr same houshold wouldn't need it.
Yes physical separation using solid walls already exists in 1'st class these days. So extending the principe allso to all seats in an economy cabin could be approved faster due to precedense.

And how does all this barrier separation work with the requirement to evacuate an aircraft in 90 seconds?

[FlightDetent]

which pushes that $50 ticket up to $125.

Is there a market for that much flying at that increase in price?I certainly hope so! Restaurant chains at European airports (past security) sell beer pints - immediately consumable vanity items - at USD 10. No shortage of customers. Commuter train from the terminal to downtown around USD 15/person. Taxi 70 USD.

Although my UK-EU market experience from secondary airports suggest median price is USD 90, the new tier then $ 225. That IS significantly different. Given the elaborate yield management techniques in force, some passengers were already paying that pre-COVID, but only around 7% of load or less.

[vikingivesterled]

And how does all this barrier separation work with the requirement to evacuate an aircraft in 90 seconds?

It works in first class so why not. And row separating curtains have been allowed for a long time as a movable class separation.
A company has already made a sample: https://simpleflying.com/middle-seat-privacy-screens/
However they could be larger and on the armrest instead of taking a whole seat, to allow full occupancy.

Saulman: Buses are getting seats marked as not to be occupied in certain countries so why not on the underground. They are also marking with crosses where you can stand.
CashAsh: 66% capcity is with middle seat free and already approved curtains as physical row dividers.

[lederhosen]

The point is that keeping the middle seat free does not fix the problem. Google China Airlines 112 and the SARS study if you don't believe me. I have spent a good part of my life on planes, fortunately mainly at the front, and I have no problem with the concept that the seat back does not create some sort of magical protective barrier.

[cashash]

CashAsh: 66% capcity is with middle seat free and already approved curtains as physical row dividers.

With the middle seat free you dont have the 2 meter separation. For example BA A320 seats are only 17 inches wide so if you are sitting in 1A and you leave 2A free but you put someone else in 3A then you do not have 2 meter separation.

If you are saying that separation of 17 inches is now adequate then is there any point to enforced separation in the first place?.

[cashash]

I certainly hope so! Restaurant chains at European airports (past security) sell beer pints - immediately consumable vanity items - at USD 10. No shortage of customers. Commuter train from the terminal to downtown around USD 15/person. Taxi 70 USD.

I would suggest that if there were a market for seat prices to be 150% higher then someone would have filled that demand by now. As it is, increasing ticket prices by that much in the deepest recession since the 1930's will ensure that air travel returns to the same level as the 1930's.

[a.carneiro]

Maybe I’m missing something. But isn’t this the airline that essentially saved Boeing in 2001, and tends to grow in crisis. This is certainly unprecedented, it’s worse than 9/11 or 2008 for the industry. The key word is up to and MOL seems to be pushing hard on governments for tax adjustments etc. However, in the wake of this Norwegian based on their proposals won’t be in the market, if Stelios gets his way EasyJet are smaller, and if BA follow through on LGW. LGW as an example is a relatively empty place..MAN has no Flybe base or Thomas Cook within 6 months. I’m not sure any other airline in the world could capitalise on a crisis like Ryanair. There may well certainly be base closures, job cuts and so on. But at the end of this you’re potentially looking at an airline that wreck havoc of what’s left behind after Covid19. Ryanair will need it’s pilots to fill those holes and capitalise within 12 months. I understand the rhetoric is to despise Ryanair on this forum, but I just thought I’d throw out an alternative view.
In another unpopular sentence, MOL has been extremely accurate in everything he has said to press. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.

Christ! Of all the airlines to thrive after this, please let it not be RYR! Nothing but contemptuous practices towards passengers and staff..

[vikingivesterled]

With the middle seat free you dont have the 2 meter separation. For example BA A320 seats are only 17 inches wide so if you are sitting in 1A and you leave 2A free but you put someone else in 3A then you do not have 2 meter separation.
If you are saying that separation of 17 inches is now adequate then is there any point to enforced separation in the first place?.

Many countries operate on a recommendation of just minimum 1 metre separation.
The most mportant is to not touch the same surfaces as others. And clean your hands with sanitizer if you do. So no shared armrests are more important than no middle seat.
Virus droplet expulsion through sneezes, coughts or talking can be reduced with masks. More difficult to stop the constant tendenzy to touch your face, and even more so with a mask on. And if you touch your face with a contaminated hand and wearing a normal non hospital mask, the virus will go straight through. An alternative for every seat occupied could be if everybody wore fully covering clothing, gloves and a full solid helmet with a closed vizir. Pretty much like you see the staff these days on tv pictures from chinese hospitals.

[The Bartender]

And if you touch your face with a contaminated hand and wearing a normal non hospital mask, the virus will go straight through.

There is nothing magical about the masks worn at hospitals.

[vikingivesterled]

There is nothing magical about the masks worn at hospitals.

There are many types of masks, also in hospitals:
What you can make yoursef with a couple of pieces of cloth and an elastic.
Surgical masks, more like what everybody can get their hands on.
N95 masks from 3M with a filter.
Cloth masks with a virus killing layer of copper dust woven into a material in beteween.
Complete impermeable hole face cowering non cloth mask with a partcle filter, like a gasmask, or it's own air supply from a canister - pretty much virus proof including from hand touching.

Distracting from how Ryanair could convince governments and entice people back in the air to minimise short term and avoid long term job losses.

[macdo]

[QUOTE=vikingivesterled;10774209]It works in first class so why not. And row separating curtains have been allowed for a long time as a movable class separation.
A company has already made a sample: https://simpleflying.com/middle-seat-privacy-screens/
However they could be larger and on the armrest instead of taking a whole seat, to allow full occupancy.

Sure, that would work. So the standard fare across the Atlantic becomes what? £6000? The market for single Business (let alone 1st.) has been tried, tested and found not to work. See Silverjet et al. If we ended up configured like that, the market will have returned to the 1950's rather than the 70's. .Only the rich can travel the globe. Well it will make the Green lobby very happy indeed.
Anyway, its all conjecture from insufficient data just now. But I'm very glad that I got to retire last year and can watch this from the sidelines and my sympathies to all the crews.

[FlightDetent]

I would suggest that if there were a market for seat prices to be 150% higher then someone would have filled that demand by now. The competition over here works the other way around. As long as airlines are happy to offer $50 fares, people, of course, accept them. Pitching a ride for 125 is then pointless. In your original example, the increased 125 USD fare is something, that in my opinion, the travelling public could absorb almost within total journey cost as it is today. That cash is already being carried and thrown around.

Since this thread is RYR labelled, let's not forget this particular company and a few keen learners have 40% less cost per crew due to avoidance of proper social security contributions. If they need to increase to 150 USD, but the fully legal employers up to 225 to keep the numbers black, we do not need to wait and see to understand what will happen.

[Yaw String]

The whole idea of 2 metre physical separation,long term,is impractical and impracticable,full stop.
it won't be long (hopefully),before we will be looking back at all these distancing ideas,and shaking our heads.

In the meantime, Air France may be leading the way....see "Pam Ann Global Alliance" on YouTube!

[Luke258]

MOL has been extremely accurate in everything he has said to press. I sincerely hope he follows through on court action.
Going to court for what exactly? O'Leary and his buddy Eddie are bullies, their memos are inaccurate and have the Sole purpose of creating an "us vs them" mood. He is a big whiner about how unfair everything is. who exloited workers, airports and States? It was Ryanair. How about they go to the irish government and ask for help? Or the maltese or the polish?

[Saulman]

Going to court for what exactly? O'Leary and his buddy Eddie are bullies, their memos are inaccurate and have the Sole purpose of creating an "us vs them" mood. He is a big whiner about how unfair everything is. who exloited workers, airports and States? It was Ryanair. How about they go to the irish government and ask for help? Or the maltese or the polish?

Have I touched a nerve? Why should they, they’ve no need to.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-05/ryanair-sues-eu-to-cancel-sweden-s-493-million-airline-rescue

[Luke258]

Have I touched a nerve? Why should they, they’ve no need to.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-05/ryanair-sues-eu-to-cancel-sweden-s-493-million-airline-rescue
True, they just get rid of all the unnecessary "employees" that are so much valued in this company. Good that they are being sued back and forth for this. But seems to me as if they already tried to get some government loans but didn't get any. Otherwise they wouldn't storm out to the media whining how unfair everything is. I call that Karma.

[Hawker400]

But seems to me as if they already tried to get some government loans but didn't get any. Otherwise they wouldn't storm out to the media whining how unfair everything is. I call that Karma.

Draw your own conclusions of the open letter by the works council of airlines in Vienna. (auto-translated)

Dear members of the Federal Government and the social partners,

The corona virus poses immense challenges for all of us. The measures to curb almost bring public and thus economic life in Austria to a standstill. Many companies struggle to survive in these times and with these companies also their employees and their families.

Our government is determined in the fight against the virus and supports it with a 38 billion euro package. Short-time work is an essential tool here: government, companies and employees all work together to get through the crisis in order to secure companies, jobs and pay. Everyone makes their contribution.

But there are a few resourceful companies that are stealing their shared responsibility and picking out the raisins. It is such companies that cry out for support from taxpayers' money and the social partners during the crisis, but otherwise don't care about the common rules of the game. It is such companies that hide and tax their profits abroad in good times and now claim Austrian taxpayers' money. They are companies that kick natural things like law, social partnership and respectful use of feet by doing social dumping in our country and outsourcing employees to personnel leasing companies. Such companies are often even proud of this.

It is companies such as Ryanair and their Austrian subsidiary Laudamotion that have chosen such “customs” as their corporate philosophy. And even in times as difficult as this, they don't dream of rethinking their attitudes. Even in times of crisis, they try to capitalize on the backs of employees and ultimately all Austrian taxpayers.

In an almost ridiculous game of cat and mouse, the management of Laudamotion tries to gain access to short-time work. Employee rights, collective agreements, works councils and a union do not count for this management. But everyone should now agree to the short-time work for the employees? Otherwise, the weakest links in the chain, the company's already battered employees, would have to pay the bill and take the termination home with them.

The government, social partners and all of us as Austrian taxpayers are called on to stop tolerating such goings-on. It cannot be accepted that a few free-riders earn a golden nose at the expense of the general public. It is not acceptable that parasitic entrepreneurship is worthwhile by choosing which rules apply and which do not. Ryanair and Laudamotion must also abide by applicable rights!

In the crisis, Lauda employees are to be helped with short-time corona work. But there must be very clear requirements. And one of them must be that Laudamotion must accept the rules of our society that it now desires to help, by respecting the rights and rules of the social partnership, by its managers now behaving like adults and by their employees like Treat people.

Awaiting for your response and best regards


Ralph Schönfelder
Chairman of the Works Council Eurowings Europe

Rainer Stratberger Chairman of the
Works Council of Austrian Airlines Bord

Harald Kleedorfer
Chairman of the Works Council Level Europe

​​​​​​https://www.vida.at/cms/S03M/S03_999_Suche.a/1342627894292/laudamotion-und-corona-kurzarbeit

[dboy]

Just a proof that most companies are getting afraid of RYR, knowing very well it is a financially healthy company.
Like i said before, most countries will put heir protectionistic registers open against RYR, especially Germany.

[Luke258]

Just a proof that most companies are getting afraid of RYR, knowing very well it is a financially healthy company.
Like i said before, most countries will put heir protectionistic registers open against RYR, especially Germany.
Getting afraid? Are we in kindergarden? So since you have figured it all out, why apparently only now do they have to "put up their protectionistic registers" and not earlier, when Ryanair actually grew in germany? Ryanair closed bases in germany, pulled back on domestic traffic. Didn't they announce 20% market share in Germany?
In the end countries want to save Airlines that pay taxes in the respective countries, not some airline that sucks out money, treats its workforce like ****, gets in trouble constantly with the law (I could continue the list here...). And again, Ryanair is free to request money from Ireland. Why don't they? Even Ezy gets state aid.

[dboy]

. And again, Ryanair is free to request money from Ireland. Why don't they?
Simply because they dont need it,yet!

Why putting the protect registers open? It is all about the amount of job losses countries could face and they wanna see their paid tax aid money back.

Europe, one? My ass, it never was and will never be.

[vikingivesterled]

Simply because they dont need it,yet!

Or they know that Ireland don't have the amount of money that would make a difference to the company.
Ryanair is a very big company headquartered in a very small and not particularly rich country.
The total overspend for CoVid19 in Ireland so far is less than some of the major countries in Europe have spent on each of their airlines alone.
The most Ryanair can hope for is some political expressions of support in sample lobby the EU about not forcing immediate cash refunds for now.

[Luke258]

Simply because they dont need it,yet!

Why putting the protect registers open? It is all about the amount of job losses countries could face and they wanna see their paid tax aid money back.

Europe, one? My ass, it never was and will never be.
Neither does Lufthansa. But since these are unprecedented times, they applied for government aid. Just like all the major carriers. Then there's Ryanair standing alone complaining.
This has by the way nothing to do with protectionism, it is simply as you say about preventing job losses due to political decisions. And since you complain about Europe: Ryanair was benefitting by european "legislation" for quite some time now, let's not forget about that.

[Saulman]

Neither does Lufthansa. But since these are unprecedented times, they applied for government aid. Just like all the major carriers. Then there's Ryanair standing alone complaining.
This has by the way nothing to do with protectionism, it is simply as you say about preventing job losses due to political decisions. And since you complain about Europe: Ryanair was benefitting by european "legislation" for quite some time now, let's not forget about that.

Have you seen Lufthansa’s balance sheet? I’d suggest you go have a look. Particularly at their debt and debt to liquidity ratio.

Anyway, Ryanair don’t need state aid currently. Why take money with high interest rates to be repaid when you don’t need to have it in the first place. The reality is the out going’s are relatively small, due to the fact most EU governments are covering most of their employees wages.
There seems to be a number of people from outside who want to bury their head in the sand in regards to Ryanair and just repeat to themselves Ryanair are bad, as that’s what Dave told me 15 years ago.

Has it slipped through everyone’s radar Ryanair have already lodged their application into the European Court on Sweden. If that’s successful, a precedent is created and soon it’ll be Frances Austria’s and Germany’s turn.
On Ireland being a relatively poor country? I think that sums up your IQ. Where is Google Apple and Mircosoft based again. In terms of GDP Ireland is one of the wealthiest nations on this planet.
Simon Convery previously mentioned Ryanair to one of the Islands greatest success stories. I’m quite confident the Irish government would back the Harp if it needed it, which it doesn’t.

[portos8]

But they did. Myself and everyone in both Ryanair and sister airlines have been let go (varies at what stage of training you were in but assume anyone that haven't completed the line check) with training fees + bonds completely written off, could be a gesture of goodwill but also saving themselves from the legal hassle of not offering work as there is none available (one of the clauses of the bond agreement).



So you are saying that the entire Ryanair cadet scheme has been scrapped?

[FlightDetent]

Where is Google Apple and Mircosoft based again. In terms of GDP Ireland is one of the wealthiest nations on this planet.
[...] Ryanair to one of the Islands greatest success stories. It's never late to remember exactly why. Because IRL's internal rules allow for enormous cross-border tax avoidance to happen, sucking cash from EU citizen private spendings into their own little yet deep green linen pocket. Make no mistake, the only part Irish play in Ryanair's massive and actually rather admirable corporate success is by turning a blind eye 360°.

Destroying a whole industry in the process, as the pendulum now swings backwards from the CEE with airlines that do not pay social contributions in the usual manner, giving them around 30% cost advantage from what already is a lower cost base. Pity everyone in the middle.

[blind pew]

And you don't think the English, French, Luxembourgois et al aren't involved in "legal" tax avoidance and money laundering? Smell the jet fuel mon ami then add flogging arms and other A moral acts.

[FlightDetent]

I have no opinion on legal tax avoidance. When I could, did the same.

Merely an observation, that large and megasuccessful corporations being HQ'd in Eire is not a sign of indigenous business excellence, but more a result from a tilted playing field. If Greece set their employers' social security contributions at 3%, there would be a lot of boxes shipping within 6 months to a seaside that is both green and warm.

The second part, about the "old west" getting crushed in-between two rocks due to the East adopting - I wish to be wrong, actually. Because if I am not, the forces in motion are larger than any workers' union or even a single nation will be able to withstand.

Maybe, hopefully maybe, the UK might yet stop the tide through post-Brexit opportunities. That is, if instead of smelling the jet fuel of their bleeding airlines (as we all do, globally) they start smelling the money and focus on saving the prospects of their industry by enforcing a level legal-economic ground at least withing their own borders.

[parkfell]

Partial restart 1 July subject to restrictions being lifted.
TIMES on line amongst others reporting

[blind pew]

Having watched Willie Walsh in front of the parliamentary committee yesterday and Michael O Leary talking to Peers Morgan this morning I know who I would rather work for and travel with.
Willie dodged many of the questions as one would expect and it appeared that some of his answers were not truthful judging by my recent experience.
O Leary was to the point and sold his product well..- iirc 40% of his flights in July, masks, temperature testing and refusal to travel.
The empty middle seat thing was from EasyJet and as Aerlingus (Willie’s old and new airline) demonstrated on recent flights Is a non starter.

[Douglas Bahada]

I have always liked MoL. He says it like it is. You don't like it you leave. WW untrustworthy at IAG. Easyjet unstable wirh majority shareholder offering whistleblowers millions to dish out the dirt. I know who l would work for given the choice.

[NormanDLandings]

Really? No thanks!

[PilotLZ]

Horses for courses. Some people like it the RYR way, others prefer the IAG way, many support neither. But it's hard to deny that MOL speaks facts and figures and tends to be quantitative rather than anecdotal in what he says. Which can't be said of many other important people.

[733driver]

Horses for courses. Some people like it the RYR way, others prefer the IAG way, many support neither. But it's hard to deny that MOL speaks facts and figures and tends to be quantitative rather than anecdotal in what he says. Which can't be said of many other important people.


It's actually quite easy to deny that MOL speaks facts. How about this quote: "I would challenge any pilot to explain how this is either a difficult job, or how it is they are overworked or how anybody who by law cannot fly more than 18 hours a week could possibly be suffering from fatigue"

[vikingivesterled]

It's actually quite easy to deny that MOL speaks facts. How about this quote: "I would challenge any pilot to explain how this is either a difficult job, or how it is they are overworked or how anybody who by law cannot fly more than 18 hours a week could possibly be suffering from fatigue"

MOL doesn't straight out lie, he just generalizes (as the general he is) and tells his version of a simplified truth. He' ll go to a new route press conference and tell everybody it just takes 45 minutes to travel from the airport to the city even tough it had just taken him 1 hour and 30 minutes. But it could probably be done in 45 at 3 in the morning in a fast car.
Same with pilots hours. He'll fly from DUB to STN and see it took 45 minutes from wheels up to wheels down. Do a quick head calculation of 2 return flights a day per shift and 5 days and that is the number he blurts out at the next meeting. Or in the legal 18 hours a week case probably 900 divided by 52.

[FlightDetent]

That is figures well, but no facts at all. ;)

[blind pew]

Many moons ago when a Dublin taxi plate cost the same as a deposit on a house O'Leary bought one which saved him half an hour on his commute..
Whilst I am still waiting for a rebate from him at least he didn't charge me £7,000 for a free ticket change to Singapore as BA did to my daughter in March.

[Pumal1w]

I have always liked MoL. He says it like it is. You don't like it you leave. WW untrustworthy at IAG. Easyjet unstable wirh majority shareholder offering whistleblowers millions to dish out the dirt. I know who l would work for given the choice.

I work for him, and whilst it’s not perfect, I’m still to find anywhere that is.
After finding myself on the dole nearly 3 years, I’m very glad to be working for him right now.

[Luke258]

Many moons ago when a Dublin taxi plate cost the same as a deposit on a house O'Leary bought one which saved him half an hour on his commute..
Whilst I am still waiting for a rebate from him at least he didn't charge me £7,000 for a free ticket change to Singapore as BA did to my daughter in March.
No, instead he charges everyone who doesn't print the ticket at home, 50 bucks.

[Saulman]

No, instead he charges everyone who doesn't print the ticket at home, 50 bucks.

They should of printed the ticket or the used the app. It does say it, multiple times.

[Hawker400]

They should of printed the ticket or the used the app. It does say it, multiple times.

Not enough times apparently

https://www.austrianwings.info/2020/05/weitere-juristische-watschn-fuer-laudamotion-check-in-gebuehr-definitiv-unzulaessig/


Legally binding OGH judgment: Passengers affected by the "rip-off" of the Ryanair subsidiary LaudaMotion can now reclaim the fee.

[Luke258]

They should of printed the ticket or the used the app. It does say it, multiple times.
Yep, that definitely makes up for a 50 quid Bill for a piece of paper. Ridiculous of you to even try to justify this.

[rotorwills]

Latest Ryan annual accounts released show just over 1 billion euro profit for the past year.
Mind you the most interesting statement in them was " As we look beyond the next year, there will be significant opportunities for Ryanair's low-cost growth model as competitors shrink, fail or are acquired by government bailed-out carriers," .

MOL. Great white in the aviation world. Bet he's rubbing his hands in expectation of making a few killings.

You can safely bet that this outfit will do very well in the present and future climate we are faced with.

[kpd]

Irish independent reports-

https://m.independent.ie/business/jobs/ryanair-will-need-more-than-3000-job-cuts-if-unions-dont-agree-to-pay-cuts-michael-oleary-warns-39213501.html


“There’s a dialogue going on with the unions,” said Mr O’Leary. “What we’ve said is that we will need up to 20pc pay cuts. It’s 20pc for higher paid people like the captains. It is down at around 10pc for the lesser paid cabin crew. It’s variable. But if we don’t get those pay cuts, we will be back for considerably more than 3,000 job losses at the end of June.

“We’re not messing,” he added. “Everybody knows there’s an existential crisis going on in the industry.”

Mr O’Leary said Ryanair intends to try to restore the pay cuts within a three or four-year period as the industry recovers.


PS FROM WIKIPEDIA- Existential crises are moments when individuals question whether their lives have meaning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life), purpose, or value.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis#cite_note-1) It may be commonly, but not necessarily, tied to depression or inevitably negative speculations on purpose in life (e.g., "if one day I will be forgotten, what is the point of all of my work?"). This issue of the meaning and purpose of human existence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence) is a major focus of the philosophical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy) tradition of existentialism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism).

[flyfan]

[...]
“There’s a dialogue going on with the unions,” said Mr O’Leary. “What we’ve said is that we will need up to 20pc pay cuts. It’s 20pc for higher paid people like the captains.
[...]
Mr O’Leary said Ryanair intends to try to restore the pay cuts within a three or four-year period as the industry recovers.
[...]

Let's tell the truth: All pilots (also the FOs) looking at a 20% paycut restored to current pay over the next 5 years. No salary progression in the next 5 years, no negotiations, and of course even if the pilots agree to those terms: No guarantee that the jobs cuts can be avoided. And that's just a part of the new T&Cs. At least that's what I´ve heard.

[rotorwills]

Let's tell the truth: All pilots (also the FOs) looking at a 20% paycut restored to current pay over the next 5 years. No salary progression in the next 5 years, no negotiations, and of course even if the pilots agree to those terms: No guarantee that the jobs cuts can be avoided. And that's just a part of the new T&Cs. At least that's what I´ve heard.


An old pal of mine FR 4 Striper, saying that he has new terms, 20% cut as well as potential changes in roster during various periods, he did say, but it sounded a little complicated for to recall exactly when. Can't blame MOL, he's after the lowest cost seats in Europe and he's going to be streets ahead of the feeble competition. Not a fan but you have to credit his ruthlessness.

[PilotLZ]

The chances of actual job cuts at RYR are fairly slim, I believe. Maybe a general switch from salaried contracts to zero-hour ones, as it used to be in earlier days, but little to no actual job losses. As long as everyone is on a zero-hour contract and only getting paid for however much work he/she does, it hardly matters how many staff are there. Whether it will be one pilot doing 90 hours per month or three pilots doing 30 hours per month each, it doesn't make any difference to the balance sheet. MOL needs to have all hands on deck for the moment RYR can take over flights from any of the less fortunate carriers. And if that comes with lower than usual labour costs - well, that's even better for the shareholders. Most pilots are unlikely to oppose the move as staying in employment for 80% of your wage is still a long way better than being unemployed and not even able to claim unemployment benefits because of your bogus self-employment for the last X years. And that's how everyone is (reasonably) happy and ready to conquer new markets and come out of the crisis as one of the few winners.

[SAB]

An old pal of mine FR 4 Striper, saying that he has new terms, 20% cut as well as potential changes in roster during various periods, he did say, but it sounded a little complicated for to recall exactly when. Can't blame MOL, he's after the lowest cost seats in Europe and he's going to be streets ahead of the feeble competition. Not a fan but you have to credit his ruthlessness.

only contractors have been forced to accept a 20% paycut or “gtfo”.

for everyone else directly employed it is a different matter....

[rotorwills]

only contractors have been forced to accept a 20% paycut or “gtfo”.

for everyone else directly employed it is a different matter....

No idea of contractors, he's a direct employee. So no idea how up to date you may be.

[CaptainSensible]

Let’s not not forget this is on top of an imposed 75% contract for some (still able to do 900hrs though). So minus 25% and then minus 20%.

[vikingivesterled]

Let's take som quick math to O'Leary's claims that middle seat free is unsustainable.
According to the Ryanair results presentation their average fare is 37 euro. Add 50% and it becomes 55.5 Still below Easyjet's current of 59 according to the same presentation.
It seems more of a pshycological problem for top brass rather than for any real economic reason, that airlines think they should be excempt from the physical distancing that every other business have to put up with.
Some will always persist on squezing the last of capacity out of both materiel and staff, even at the cost of suffering, for others.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Well sorry to say BALPA announced yesterday, 336 jobs to go 185 CPT / 151 FOs

Sorry to hear that. Is that just in the UK or accross the whole group?

[flyfan]

Seems like just the UK, other countries, other numbers

[DaveReidUK]

Let's take som quick math to O'Leary's claims that middle seat free is unsustainable.
According to the Ryanair results presentation their average fare is 37 euro. Add 50% and it becomes 55.5 Still below Easyjet's current of 59 according to the same presentation.
It seems more of a pshycological problem for top brass rather than for any real economic reason, that airlines think they should be excempt from the physical distancing that every other business have to put up with.
Some will always persist on squezing the last of capacity out of both materiel and staff, even at the cost of suffering, for others.

If it was possible to bump up fares to 150% and still sell two-thirds of their seats, airlines would have been doing that for years.

[737 CL]

Sad news in UK about the redundancies.

How are planning the job cuts? Are they using LIFO?

[FlightDetent]

If it was possible to bump up fares to 150% and still sell two-thirds of their seats, airlines would have been doing that for years.The reason they did not do any such thing was competition existed offering 80% of the price on about 1/3 of their A/C's capacity. Typically this was Ryanair themselves.

I think a larger (as this was hushed at the press release) concern is the ancillary revenues getting a haircut by 1/3 due to smaller pax numbers. Or people not paying at all for the window and aisle seats, as there would be no middle one to run away from, similar for priority boarding etc.

[Longtimer]

If it was possible to bump up fares to 150% and still sell two-thirds of their seats, airlines would have been doing that for years.
Most would have liked that but due to the Untra Low Cost and LOW Cost carriers, that was impossible.

[Douglas Bahada]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-conornavirus-ryanair/unions-say-ryanair-exaggerating-covid-threat-to-undermine-conditions-idUKKBN22W1YZ

[Saulman]

Unpopular opinion. BALPA have a theme of making things worse in RYR, STN proves that. They’ve weak support within the company as recent strikes pointed out as well.

[777xxcp]

Threatening their Pilots is something RYR is good at.
threatening to change the base,
threatening for pay cuts,
threatening for closing bases,
threatening for delaying upgrades,
threatening for dismissals in case of sickness,

just to mention some...RYR MUST CHANGE !

[The Old Swedish]

LaudaMotion is closing the Vienna Base...

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3049817/

Google Translated:

Laudamotion closes base in Vienna on May 29th

Ryanair subsidiary Laudamotion closes its base in Vienna on May 29th. 300 jobs are lost. The union vida had not previously accepted the ultimatum to sign a new collective agreement with significantly lower wages.
Online since today, 10.11 a.m. (Update: 10.11 a.m.)

The vida will “not be blackmailed and will not sign a KV, which with 848 euros net starting salary for flight attendants is clearly below the minimum security in Vienna (917 euros) and even more clearly below the current poverty risk threshold 2019 of 1,259 euros per month for one person” , it was said last of the vida.
Budget airline also criticizes government

"Lauda deeply regrets the loss of more than 300 jobs for the A320 crews and the closure of Lauda's A320 base in Vienna next Friday, May 29th," said Austria's second largest airline on Friday morning. "The VIDA union shamefully ignored the wishes of over 95 percent of the pilots and 70 percent of the cabin crew at Lauda's A320 base in Vienna and destroyed over 300 well-paid jobs."

The low-cost airline "also regrets the inaction of the Austrian government", referring to the fact that the Lufthansa subsidiary AUA should be helped very well in the corona crisis.

Union passed ultimatum

The subsidiary of the Irish low-cost airline had asked the union to sign the KV by the end of Thursday - more on that in Laudamotion provides 24-hour ultimatum. In the event that the union did not sign the changed KV, the company had previously announced that it would register 300 employees with the AMS. The Chamber of Commerce had given its consent to the KV.


-------------------------------
Good luck to everyone.

[dirk85]

The last time I checked Lauda pilots were already paid significantly less than Ryanair pilots, am I wrong? And now Ryanair will replace them in Vienna?

[PilotLZ]

Very upsetting indeed. My thoughts go to everyone who lost their job in this uneven battle. But, unfortunately, that's been the common way of doing business in RYR even in far better times - take whatever is thrown your way or go East. Any reduction in T&Cs has always been unilateral and with no window for negotiating.

We can only guess how this is going to develop, but it's not looking good for Lauda and their A320 fleet for now. Most likely, it will get entirely axed.

Edit: It's now even more likely that the faith of Lauda is sealed as plans for a base in Zadar get cancelled.