Flying stops at major UK ATOs

[Danny boy]

Does anyone have a view on the present difficulties flying schools are experiencing due to Covid 19 lock down...

[Bill Macgillivray]

No view on the difficulties occuring but, I would suggest, a very sensible decision in the present situation!

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Not least because no-one training now is likely to find a job in the next five years, at least in any kind of aviation. Sad fact, but there it is. If only people had listened to Bill (said with a fierce sense of irony; all the ‘risk assessment’ done in airlines, and no-one put two and two together on the viral threat).

[Genghis the Engineer]

It was inevitable and necessary. What happens next? - who knows, but I think the whole aviation industry is likely to end up smaller.

G

[UAV689]

One big school is still operating despite pleas from staff to stop.

They said they wrote an action plan to the caa to mitigate risks...I wonder if the virus got that memo.

An interesting question would be, should the old bill take a dim view of this, who would get nicked, instructor or employer...

[rarelyathome]

One big school is still operating despite pleas from staff to stop.

They said they wrote an action plan to the caa to mitigate risks...I wonder if the virus got that memo.

An interesting question would be, should the old bill take a dim view of this, who would get nicked, instructor or employer...

Which one? Name & shame. Emphasis on the shame.

[BigEndBob]

Well i'm sat here with a cold or virus that i am sure i caught once again this year by sitting with the same student. First time he said he had the flu last January and now last Sunday a sore throat. Well thanks. I wish students would just keep away from flying when they are under the weather.

My company will survive this but i have already asked our airfield operator will they waiver the take off and landing fees seeing as they have closed the airfield.

[UAV689]

Which one? Name & shame. Emphasis on the shame.

the ex easyjet factory. South coast and cranfield based. Rumour is the school sent a mitigation plan to the caa and therefore think they are immune to the virus!

[Fl1ingfrog]

Almost certainly to be utter nonsense. Hardly anyone left at the CAA who have expertise on aviation matters yet alone Covid-19. The CAA cannot and will not exercise any authority on such matters. The law is clear, you must at all times remain 2 metres apart whether on the street or at work. The exemption from this separation rule is only for "key" workers: The role of doctors and nurses being an obvious exemption.

[BEagle]

Hardly anyone left at the CAA who have expertise on aviation matters yet alone Covid-19.

What prompted that bile? There are quite a few people at the CAA busily working on mitigation measures and your unpleasant little outburst is totally uncalled for and inappropriate.

[VariablePitchP]

Which one? Name & shame. Emphasis on the shame.

L3

https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/630927-what-ato-s-training.html

Thread with the details, not sure why we’re so scared of saying L3

[RADAC]

Oops can tell I not up to speed with messaging
I wrote the CAA on Monday to ask why so many aircraft flying VFR. Reason was, I am not allowed to drive my Morgan for recreational use, so why so much recreational flying. Answer from CAA, this is not in our remit please contact Department of Transport....and these aircraft are probably flying from private land.
Tuesday such flying prohibited ....Except for the two flying around Compton Abbas and Dorset every day.
CAA great din my day with radar calibration and the great crew on the HS125, but showing my age it was more than a few years ago

[BigEndBob]

Key workers by me busy hand washing key workers cars ;)
Probably washing virus off cars.
And the factory round the corner busy as usual.
Yet i can't see any reason why light aircraft can't fly solo or with a family member..

My home field has shut hangers and sent home staff so no one insured to remove aircraft.

[rarelyathome]

Key workers by me busy hand washing key workers cars ;)
Probably washing virus off cars.
And the factory round the corner busy as usual.
Yet i can't see any reason why light aircraft can't fly solo or with a family member..

My home field has shut hangers and sent home staff so no one insured to remove aircraft.

If your up front entertainment stops and the subsequent forced landing, through misfortune, puts you in a hospital bed that my, somebody else’s or even your own family might need, would you then see why recreational flying might be a selfishly indulgent thing to do? The instruction to stay at home is crystal. JFDI

[BEagle]

RADAC wrote: I wrote the CAA on Monday to ask why so many aircraft flying VFR

Please don't waste the CAA's time with such time wasting queries when they're working hard to draft alleviations enabling GA pilots to cope with the current restrictions.

You could always drive your Morgan to the supermarket when you do your essential food shopping?

[Fl1ingfrog]

If anybody has a question to put to the CAA then ask it: "the only silly question is the question you do not ask". It is the responsibility of the CAA as with any authority to keep all informed. That is how best they can reduce avoidable questions/comments. The CAA exists wholly from charges they make on you in licensing and approval fees. You have a right to question and comment on how your money is spent.

They certainly do not need, nor should they require, self appointed firewalls.

[BEagle]

If anybody has a question to put to the CAA then ask it

The CAA only has a finite number of staff, who are currently working hard to develop alleviations for the current situation.

The last thing they need right now is to devote time to answering unnecessary questions. So please do NOT follow Fl1ingfrog's advice - unless you want to inconvenience everyone else.

[shorehamite]

Key workers by me busy hand washing key workers cars ;)
Probably washing virus off cars.
And the factory round the corner busy as usual.
Yet i can't see any reason why light aircraft can't fly solo or with a family member..

My home field has shut hangers and sent home staff so no one insured to remove aircraft.
I cannot see a reason either, my aircraft is parked on the apron at an open airfield, i dont need fuel, i can walk to it without coming in to contact with anyone, i dont see why i cannot fly it for maintenance purposes.

[rarelyathome]

See #14. Why do some people not get it. If we all comply, we’ll all get back to normal sooner.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Beags,

I don't always agree with you but, in regard to the pointless queries to the CAA at the moment, you are absolutely right!! Please do not waste their time with fatuous queries!

Bill

[BigEndBob]

Something that will hit ATO and instructors are medicals. I know mine is due end April. OK we are grounded indefinitely but what happens when restrictions are lifted, there will be months of back logs for medicals.
Perhaps the CAA could allow a transition period where medical validity could be extended or allow say six month self certifying for PPL instructors.

[Fl1ingfrog]

What is an "unnecessary" or "fatuous" question? The NHS being the most under pressure of all organisations and very much at the sharp end see it differently. Every day and throughout the day they spare its Nurses, Doctors and Professors to appear on the media to answer questions, any questions. They do not judge the questioner. They know how important it is to do this in order to maintain a safe environment and to save life. I repeat: "the only silly question is the question which is not asked". This is not "advice" by the way but it is my strongly held and considered opinion.

As to the CAA, they have the resources, or should have, to provide the necessary manpower to answer unnecessary and fatuous questions. It would require only a very few people but, of course, only those who are not involved with the earnest work which is directly involved with the current crisis. Perhaps they could bring back into work some of its recently retired personal or those that they have mistakenly made redundant in recent times, these people can work from home.

[BEagle]

What is an "unnecessary" or "fatuous" question? The NHS being the most under pressure of all organisations and very much at the sharp end see it differently. Every day and throughout the day they spare its Nurses, Doctors and Professors to appear on the media to answer questions, any questions. They do not judge the questioner. They know how important it is to do this in order to maintain a safe environment and to save life. I repeat: "the only silly question is the question which is not asked". This is not "advice" by the way but it is my strongly held and considered opinion.

As to the CAA, they have the resources, or should have, to provide the necessary manpower to answer unnecessary and fatuous questions. It would require only a very few people but, of course, only those who are not involved with the earnest work which is directly involved with the current crisis. Perhaps they could bring back into work some of its recently retired personal or those that they have mistakenly made redundant in recent times, these people can work from home.

Rarely have I read such utter tripe. You have no idea how hard the CAA is working to achieve alleviations from the current situation for the benefit of GA. Might I suggest that you please stop posting your nonsense.

[Fl1ingfrog]

BEagle, this is a discussion forum and I am always interested to read others point of view even when I disagree. I refer you to Socrates: too often the looser in an argument resorts to the tools of abuse and slander of their opponent. Too often your choice is just that and as such it is unnecessary and unhelpful to the discussion. END

[VariablePitchP]

BEagle, this is a discussion forum and I am always interested to read others point of view even when I disagree. I refer you to Socrates: too often the looser in an argument resorts to the tools of abuse and slander of their opponent. Too often your choice is just that and as such it is unnecessary and unhelpful to the discussion. END

No, not ‘END’ as you put it, you can’t just make a loud point, use block capitals and walk off, not normally how discussions work.

BEagle makes (another) very good and valid point. Do you honestly think it’s a good use of your or anyone else’s time to be asking what you know full well to be pointless and unnecessary questions of a department that is blatantly going to be overstretched and under resourced at the moment?

You may well consider your headache’s need of a paracetamol an emergency. Tough, you still can’t have an ambulance. Doesn’t matter that you’ve paid into the system, you’re not having one, deal with it. You sign up to the rules of society by being a part of it, one of which is to not behave like a five year old at times like this. You take a step back, stay at home, and let those who are actually critical to the effort get on with their jobs in peace.

[rarelyathome]

Perhaps everybody is getting a little stir crazy. Shall we all try to be nicer? I am happy to leave the CAA to work on the various easements they are thinking about without interruption. There are a very many that will need them when we all get to go flying again.

[Fl1ingfrog]

No, not ‘END’ as you put it, you can’t just make a loud point, use block capitals and walk off, not normally how discussions work.

BEagle makes (another) very good and valid point. Do you honestly think it’s a good use of your or anyone else’s time to be asking what you know full well to be pointless and unnecessary questions
.

The "END" is a parody of the use of it by BEagle in an earlier post and he will know that. In my use it is intended to request that he stops his abuse and his attempts to bully those who disagree with him.

I doubt whether the CAA has had a surge of unnecessary emails but there will be some. Should an individual know a question to be pointless and unnecessary then it would seem unlikely they will ask it. Before a lecture or presentation I have always written at the top of the white board or similar: "there are no silly questions other than the one not asked". When that "silly" question was asked it would usually cause many to sit up in their seats because they too had the question on their mind but didn't dare ask out of embarrassment. Constructively the silly question, more often than not, could lead us into an interesting and important debate of value to everyone. When planning to climb a rock face, fly an aircraft or at any time that individual behavior is critical the silly question could be critical to everyone's safety. For those who may have many years of experience and be active centrally to swipe away the questions from those less experienced, for me, is complacency at the extreme.

[Fl1ingfrog]

The CAA have at long last, although so far just broad brush strokes, produced a comprehensive newsletter under the Skywise banner. It makes it clear that they understand many of the issues already raised with them and that they are working on fuller detailed answers.Coronavirus: Recreational General AviationGovernment guidance (https://caa.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=9a13f6185a0a697970bd3de1d&id=c602807329&e=39798acc42) on coronavirus and General Aviation flying was published yesterday.

It states that people should not take part in recreational flying during the current coronavirus outbreak.

This is in line with government guidance to stay at home unless it is absolutely necessary to go out.
> Guidance - Coronavirus (COVID-19): recreational general aviation (https://caa.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=9a13f6185a0a697970bd3de1d&id=57f07e5231&e=39798acc42)

In the final paragraph: 'Recreational flying'

The above does not apply to search and rescue operations, or where it absolutely necessary to fly to, or for, work. In all of these activities, we expect public organisations and businesses to be socially responsible in the decisions they make, and to apply social distancing guidelines.

This final paragraph in part is bound to generate many questions (the highlight is mine).