View Full Version : BA A320. Onion bahjis smell.
Council Van
25th Nov 2019, 18:43
This sounded really nasty with both pilots apparently becoming partially incapacitated on the approach to Paphos.
Accident: British Airways A320 at Paphos on Oct 19th 2019, fumes in cockpit, both pilots partially incapacitated (http://avherald.com/h?article=4cfb5c82&opt=0)
The doctors recommended the flight crew to stay in hospital overnight for monitoring, however, the pilots preferred to go to the hotel and returned to London the next day as passengers, refusing to fly on the occurrence aircraft.
Refusing? As in BA insisting on them to pilot and not accepting a polite declining?
8-12 hours bottle to throttle is an accepted standard, how many hours BA expects for E.R. to throttle?
DaveReidUK
25th Nov 2019, 19:01
Presumably the problem was rectified at Paphos, given that the aircraft operated a revenue service back to LGW and flew 8 sectors over the following two days.
tubby linton
25th Nov 2019, 19:09
BA are not having a great year with fume events
Barcli
25th Nov 2019, 19:20
complete paranoia as usual .........
AviatorDave
25th Nov 2019, 19:45
complete paranoia as usual .........
Oh, really? I take it you did your research about the impact of organophosphate compounds on the human central nervous system, didn‘t you.
sherburn2LA
25th Nov 2019, 20:22
was this a pre or post consumption Onion Bahjis smell
snoop doggy dog
25th Nov 2019, 20:53
2 Airlines in Hong Kong are having a bad time of it too. However, they are able to put fear and intimidation into crews not to take further and return to work.
Not HKA or HKE.
Paranoia? Destroying one's nervous system, constant headaches, death, just to name a few.
www.aerotoxicity.org
www.susanmichaelis.com (https://www.susanmichaelis.com/index.html)
lomapaseo
25th Nov 2019, 21:01
Oh, really? I take it you did your research about the impact of organophosphate compounds on the human central nervous system, didn‘t you.
Where is the linkage in this incident to organophosphate compounds?
Locked door
25th Nov 2019, 21:33
What do you think aero engine oil is made from?
tdracer
25th Nov 2019, 23:19
What do you think aero engine oil is made from?
What makes you so sure it was an engine oil related event? There are a number of potential causes for fume events - engine oil is actually fairly low on the probability list (most are related to electrical or galley issues).
I've never heard of an engine oil related fume event described as a "Onion Bahjis" smell.
ShyTorque
25th Nov 2019, 23:21
What do you think aero engine oil is made from?
Onions?..........
Wannabe Flyer
26th Nov 2019, 02:07
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50550735
Possibly they just don't like spices? Not unheard of.......
:ugh:
BitMoreRightRudder
26th Nov 2019, 08:01
Onions?..........
Pickled Onions Shurely?
Kerosine
26th Nov 2019, 13:40
Joking aside. Two pilots temporarily incapacitated? If it's not hypoxia or food poisoning, what else could it be?
misd-agin
26th Nov 2019, 13:47
Joking aside. Two pilots temporarily incapacitated? If it's not hypoxia or food poisoning, what else could it be?
Like the article mentioned maybe it was their fever?
Kerosine
26th Nov 2019, 13:53
Like the article mentioned maybe it was their fever?
Fever is a high internal body temperature. A high body temp can be caused by many things.
This article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9493505) specifically mentions organophosphate toxicity.
Jn14:6
26th Nov 2019, 15:07
Was it just an ordinary Onion Bhajee, or was it an M&S Onion Bahjee?:rolleyes:
darkshadow
26th Nov 2019, 18:15
Like the article mentioned maybe it was their fever?
That does not explain their low blood oxygen. Fever was most likely an effect (or unrelated), not the cause. With 100% oxygen from masks you need another factor preventing their blood from transporting oxygen. There are a lot of chemicals that could do that.
darkshadow
26th Nov 2019, 18:17
If it is true that the hospital wanted them to stay in overnight, the pilots discharged themselves regardless, would it not be verging on criminal irresponsibility if the company decided that they should fly back without a full medical?.
As I read it they refused to fly back on the occurrence aircraft, meaning as passengers?
nonsense
26th Nov 2019, 23:20
"The doctors recommended the flight crew to stay in hospital overnight for monitoring, however, the pilots preferred to go to the hotel and returned to London the next day as passengers, refusing to fly on the occurrence aircraft."
"The occurrence aircraft remained on the ground for about 27 hours, then returned to London Gatwick as flight BA-2675 and continued service."
https://avherald.com/h?article=4cfb5c82&opt=0
Flapsupbedsdown
27th Nov 2019, 08:22
No sir, no paranoia, personally experienced the issue, not to that extent fortunately. once on a wide body, other times on single aile and having flown both main manufacturers with same engines over 3k hours each, only on one type so far.
Radgirl
27th Nov 2019, 08:56
A few lines of second hand information is meaningless. The captain's situation isnt clear as there was a communication issue. I would love to see the actual saturation readings in the hospital as I struggle to reconcile this with any known condition. On the face of it both felt unwell and had a temperature so looking at a viral infection... we often find several nurses go ill on the same shift......But not as sexy as organophosphate toxicity
I am more worried with the finding that the 2 pilots couldn't communicate with each other with masks on. Either they didnt use them properly, indicating a training issue, or the equipment had a fault. Surely this is far more serious in terms of the risk of a recurrent hazard?
Spunky Monkey
27th Nov 2019, 09:43
Could it be that they struggled to use the equipment efficiently because of the impairment from a toxin or fume effect rather than blaming poor training?
golfyankeesierra
27th Nov 2019, 10:36
Sorry for the thread drift but I remember that I was once told of a good (but expensive) post-flight test of a suspect aerotoxic event. It required vacuum packing your shirt (or something else you wore) and sending it for testing.
while googling for it I just found another test:
Aerotoxic hair test (https://www.syndrome-aerotoxique.com/produit/hair-test-kit-are-you-contaminated)
Anyone experience with one of those tests?
lomapaseo
27th Nov 2019, 13:07
A few lines of second hand information is meaningless. The captain's situation isnt clear as there was a communication issue. I would love to see the actual saturation readings in the hospital as I struggle to reconcile this with any known condition. On the face of it both felt unwell and had a temperature so looking at a viral infection... we often find several nurses go ill on the same shift......But not as sexy as organophosphate toxicity
I am more worried with the finding that the 2 pilots couldn't communicate with each other with masks on. Either they didnt use them properly, indicating a training issue, or the equipment had a fault. Surely this is far more serious in terms of the risk of a recurrent hazard?
It's happened before in smoke issues (B777 LHR) and will happen again. The crew needs to understand this difficulty and develop work-arounds. I've been in cockpits during turbulence when the background noise from rattling panels was so loud that the crew had to yell to communicate. I felt that this latest incident crew handled it well