New in-flight service on Virgin Atlantic

[Super VC-10]

Free sexual harrassment by fellow passengers.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/07/woman-sexually-harassed-using-flight-chat-system-virgin-atlantic-plane-10877926/

[302szd55]

[QUOTE=Super VC-10;10589250]Free sexual harrassment by fellow passengers.

Looks like they chose the wrong woman to lear at. Sounds like they had the spectral cast of "on the buses" on board?

[OldLurker]

Very odd that Virgin thought messaging was a good feature to add to their 'entertainment' system. I'd have thought its usefulness would be very limited. But no, on reflection, it's the usual techie thing: we can do this neat thing, so let's add it to the system.
If I'd implemented this feature I'd have disabled it by default, when the system is reset before each flight (I presume it is?), and let each seat choose whether to enable it or not for that flight. Then I'd have let each seat choose whch other seats to take messaqes from. Allowing messaging from random seat to random other seat is asking for silly behaviour by teenage dickheads.

[Aihkio]

So she isn't a tidy babe at all! Maybe she dressed in a way that made her a walking sexual harassment. The solution to that is, of course, wearing a burka.

News like this makes me wonder what actually is the infamous sexual harassment. Calling her ugly? Or is it anything the (non)lady feels at the moment. Which leads to the situation that not saying anything will be harassment if she feels something should have been said.

Tidy babe is not very bad.

[bnt]

The messages have your seat number on them, and the cabin crew has the name of every passenger on the manifest by seat, so what kind of numb-nuts do you have to be to think your messages can't be traced back to you? I suspect the Virgin programmers thought passengers would be smart enough to understand this and thus refrain from being dicks on a plane.

[Super VC-10]

The system needs to record all messages, which should be downloadable to the company's internal systems. Also, a print facility should be provided, enabling hard copy to be obtained in case of complaints such as that.

[what next]

Hello!

If I'd implemented this feature I'd have disabled it by default, when the system is reset before each flight (I presume it is?), and let each seat choose whether to enable it or not for that flight. Then I'd have let each seat choose whch other seats to take messaqes from. Allowing messaging from random seat to random other seat is asking for silly behaviour by teenage dickheads.

The one time I flew on a Virgin flight the messaging system was working exactly as you describe that it "should work". But even if this woman chose to accept messages from other passengers that does not give them the right to insult her. Usually American and British media are very quick when it comes to naming and shaming culprits (and even suspects in many cases). So I guess it will not be long that we will be shown the name and face of Mr. "big dick swinger" and his buddies. Their wifes and children will be delighted!

[CargoOne]

The system needs to record all messages, which should be downloadable to the company's internal systems.

And then the best messages can read on public during XMAS party...

[OldnGrounded]

So she isn't a tidy babe at all! Maybe she dressed in a way that made her a walking sexual harassment. The solution to that is, of course, wearing a burka.

News like this makes me wonder what actually is the infamous sexual harassment. Calling her ugly? Or is it anything the (non)lady feels at the moment. Which leads to the situation that not saying anything will be harassment if she feels something should have been said.

Tidy babe is not very bad.

You don't seem to "get it." Be careful out there; attitudes like the one suggested by your post result in unemployment and lawsuits every single day.

[OldnGrounded]

Hello!



The one time I flew on a Virgin flight the messaging system was working exactly as you describe that it "should work". But even if this woman chose to accept messages from other passengers that does not give them the right to insult her. Usually American and British media are very quick when it comes to naming and shaming culprits (and even suspects in many cases). So I guess it will not be long that we will be shown the name and face of Mr. "big dick swinger" and his buddies. Their wifes and children will be delighted!

Yup. Exactly.

[Meester proach]

The messages have your seat number on them, and the cabin crew has the name of every passenger on the manifest by seat, so what kind of numb-nuts do you have to be to think your messages can't be traced back to you? I suspect the Virgin programmers thought passengers would be smart enough to understand this and thus refrain from being dicks on a plane.


“ Dicks on a plane “, a worthy sequel to “ snakes on a plane “. Featuring p&ssed up charter passengers off to Zakinthos from your local airport.

[Less Hair]

As everybody can be tracked back to his seat number I don't see this problem to become something major.
Taking a picture and informing the crew is the right thing to do to stop this.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Absolute moronic attitudes displayed by those passengers when their seat numbers are displayed next to their chat lines. It's a simple task of cross-referencing that against the passenger manifest for names, and from there their contact details.
Only thing possibly lacking or needing clarifying for legal purposes is a disclaimer stating that any misuse of the system would result in their entire IFE system to the seat being disabled for the remainder of the flight, and for a cabin-wide CCTV to collect info along with the chat logs to corroborate who was sat where if it then goes to court.
No getting away from that then.

[Maninthebar]

So she isn't a tidy babe at all! Maybe she dressed in a way that made her a walking sexual harassment. The solution to that is, of course, wearing a burka.

News like this makes me wonder what actually is the infamous sexual harassment. Calling her ugly? Or is it anything the (non)lady feels at the moment. Which leads to the situation that not saying anything will be harassment if she feels something should have been said.

Tidy babe is not very bad.

We really REALLY need to stop blaming women for men's bad behaviour

[MATELO]

So she isn't a tidy babe at all! Maybe she dressed in a way that made her a walking sexual harassment. The solution to that is, of course, wearing a burka.

News like this makes me wonder what actually is the infamous sexual harassment. Calling her ugly? Or is it anything the (non)lady feels at the moment. Which leads to the situation that not saying anything will be harassment if she feels something should have been said.

Tidy babe is not very bad.

Sexual harassment is unwanted behaviour of a sexual nature which:

violates your dignity
makes you feel intimidated, degraded or humiliated
creates a hostile or offensive environment

You don’t need to have previously objected to someone's behaviour for it to be considered unwanted.

[scr1]

Think I saw the same system on a Iberia flight recently

[capngrog]

I haven't flown commercially in years, so I'm not up to speed on all of the latest In Flight Entertainment systems available to passengers these days. Can the in-flight chat system be turned off? Can offensive chat posts be deleted? What action (if any) did the flight attendants take?

Is it merely synchronicity that the chat offendee, "Legal expert Jessica Van Meir ...", is an employee of a "... a law firm that specialises in online sexual harassment", or perhaps a clever ploy to generate publicity for her and her employer? Oh wait, I'm sure that would never happen, especially with lawyers in the mix!

Just sayin'.

Cheers,
Grog

[OldnGrounded]

Is it merely synchronicity that the chat offendee, "Legal expert Jessica Van Meir ...", is an employee of a "... a law firm that specialises in online sexual harassment", or perhaps a clever ploy to generate publicity for her and her employer? Oh wait, I'm sure that would never happen, especially with lawyers in the mix!

Just sayin'.

Cheers,
Grog

Do you have a theory about how this "clever ploy" might have been carried out? Remembering, of course, that the identities of the occupants of all the seats on the aircraft are easily verified.

Just wonderin'

[Aihkio]

A working definition of an action must be usable before anything is done. Something like "makes you feel intimidated, degraded or humiliated" is worse than useless, it also cannot depend on a posteriori opinion of the object. Or if that is allowed I have the right to judge if her clothing is harassing or not.

Saying one's opinion on the looks of a fellow passanger is stupid but it is not automatically offensive. I would never do it, never done it. I am just against the late largely feminist opinion that the object has the right to be offended by anything. And still think that "tidy babe" is not bad, is it wise, no.

[Mostly Harmless]

So she isn't a tidy babe at all! Maybe she dressed in a way that made her a walking sexual harassment. The solution to that is, of course, wearing a burka.

News like this makes me wonder what actually is the infamous sexual harassment. Calling her ugly? Or is it anything the (non)lady feels at the moment. Which leads to the situation that not saying anything will be harassment if she feels something should have been said.

Tidy babe is not very bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZtGLqKGIGI

[Mostly Harmless]

Hello!



The one time I flew on a Virgin flight the messaging system was working exactly as you describe that it "should work". But even if this woman chose to accept messages from other passengers that does not give them the right to insult her. Usually American and British media are very quick when it comes to naming and shaming culprits (and even suspects in many cases). So I guess it will not be long that we will be shown the name and face of Mr. "big dick swinger" and his buddies. Their wifes and children will be delighted!

I'm not a big fan of the court of public humiliation/call-out culture/slacktivism. We have a legal system and it looks as though it is being employed.

This is a pretty clear cut case of harassment. There will be consequences for the parties involved.

[edi_local]

Think I saw the same system on a Iberia flight recently

I've seen this messaging service on a few airlines, but as I normally fly alone, or next to the people I am with, I have never had the urge to use it. I think I did once try to send a hello to the empty seat beside me on an airline that had this, but nothing happened. Maybe it's a common feature, but is disabled on other airlines and just simply does nothing.

[CEJM]

Absolute moronic attitudes displayed by those passengers when their seat numbers are displayed next to their chat lines. It's a simple task of cross-referencing that against the passenger manifest for names, and from there their contact details.

Actually it is not such a simple task as it seems. The passenger manifest does not proof that a particular person actually has sat in that seat. That is why in case of passenger problems we need to get passport details as that is the only way to proof that that particular passenger was the problem. A seat number on a manifest means absolutely nothing, unfortunately.

[standbykid]

In flight IM system? Christ, can't people talk to one another?

[capngrog]

Do you have a theory about how this "clever ploy" might have been carried out? Remembering, of course, that the identities of the occupants of all the seats on the aircraft are easily verified.

Just wonderin'

One theory that comes to the remains of my mind is this: Legal Expert Van Meir met the offensive posters in the lounge prior to boarding and after discussing her job over a few drinks, they all decided that it would be fun to engage in racy repartee via the Virgin in-flight chat system. Legal Expert Van Meir would then evaluate the posts, determining which were merely offensive, and which may be actionable. Just an educational exercise, don't ya know. There are several other scenarios that come to mind, varying from plausible to the far reaches of implausible. Just make something up ... like I just did.

As to being easily identifiable from seat numbers, as pointed out by CEJM, that is not always an easy thing. I would think that for reasons of potential liability, airlines would be reluctant to release such information unless served with a subpoena. Then there's the factor of some not caring one way or the other, and others who, after a few drinks, lose all sense of caution and propriety.

I'm still curious as to what, if any, specific actions were taken by the flight attendants to deal with this horrific situation.

Cheers,
Grog

[DISCOKID]

People are missing the point of this sort of service. It is not a free for all chat - you have to setup who you want to chat with and they have to accept.

The biggest use is for families and groups that are split up in their seat assignment. When you're trapped in a middle seat miles away from the rest of your family it's quite nice being able to send messages during an 8 hour flight without having disturb multiple people by going to chat in person each time.

I'm quite sure the cabin crew can deactivate it or block seats. She could have turned chat off herself instantly too - you only have to flip back to the TV channel to no longer see it.

[nevillestyke]

[QUOTE=Super VC-10;10589250]Free sexual harrassment by fellow passengers.

Looks like they chose the wrong woman to lear at. Sounds like they had the spectral cast of "on the buses" on board?
Or maybe you were thinking that it was a Leerjet?

[JustinHeywood]

This has all the hallmarks of viral marketing;
- titillating and eminently clickable, viral marketing gold
- offence is objectionable but not bad enough to be actionable, so not too much scrutiny of those involved
- it's from an ambulance-chasing law firm, who manage to get their company name in the news reports and even to spruik for business ('has this happened to you?")

For all the people who suffer real abuse in our society (the elderly poor for example), someone being called a 'tidy babe' is not something we should be wringing our hands over.

[beardy]

. For all the people who suffer real abuse in our society (the elderly poor for example), someone being called a 'tidy babe' is not something we should be wringing our hands over.

The same mentality that leads to abuse of the weak, elderly and vulnerable also tolerates the idea of objectifying them in the same way thar 'tidy babe' objectifies a woman. So yes we should be calling it to account, it's not the phrase, it's the attitude and mindset.

[JustinHeywood]

The same mentality that leads to abuse of the weak, elderly and vulnerable also tolerates the idea of objectifying them in the same way thar 'tidy babe' objectifies a woman. So yes we should be calling it to account, it's not the phrase, it's the attitude and mindset.

Oh please. I’ve got the face of a Chernobyl fireman and even I’ve had ‘abuse’ worse than that.

My point is that while lawyers sniff around for lucrative cases to run and the morally superior thought police confect their outrage, actual, real abuse occurs elsewhere and is largely ignored.

[beardy]

Oh please. I’ve got the face of a Chernobyl fireman and even I’ve had ‘abuse’ worse than that.

My point is that while lawyers sniff around for lucrative cases to run and the morally superior thought police confect their outrage, actual, real abuse occurs elsewhere and is largely ignored.

I agree that there are lawyers only too willing to exploit the law. Abuse of any form is not acceptable especially when it objectifies individuals. This is where I find identity politics a difficult concept.

[Speed of Sound]

I suspect the Virgin programmers thought passengers would be smart enough to understand this and thus refrain from being dicks on a plane.

Unfortunately the kind of people who abuse these systems also tend to be the dumbest kind of people as well. In the UK a recent problem is Brexit supporters sending rape and death threats to MPs. Many of them do it from their own or their work’s genuine email address then are flabbergasted when the police come knocking on their door to arrest them.

‘Stupid is as stupid does’ as Tom Hanks once said.