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Super VC-10
4th Sep 2019, 18:34
It's OK, it was all legal.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-04/legend-dad-on-holiday-flies-delayed-easyjet-flight-to-spain-after-original-pilot-missing/

Ben_S
4th Sep 2019, 18:41
Easyjet pilot pilots Easyjet aircraft. Not such a great headline.

Dufo
4th Sep 2019, 18:49
And who flew it back then?

Flying Wild
4th Sep 2019, 19:04
And who flew it back then?
He wasn't bothered. He was probably straight down the bar drinking his day off payment :D

sarah737
4th Sep 2019, 19:10
Did it one day as well, didnít feel need to play stand up comedian in front of the passengers though.
Kept the cockpit door closed, nobody knew...

WindSheer
4th Sep 2019, 19:42
Did it one day as well, didnít feel need to play stand up comedian in front of the passengers though.
Kept the cockpit door closed, nobody knew...

Disagree. Pax should be kept in the loop, plus there's a guy up front in jeans. Just say it as it is. Not all good things are driven by ego. Good for him, plus he got to fly his family on hols.

BluSdUp
4th Sep 2019, 20:02
Except for the fact that on International flights You have to wear a uniform.
At least outside the Cockpit ,,,,,,,
Then again DenimAir solved that problem,,,,

akindofmagic
4th Sep 2019, 20:19
Except for the fact that on International flights You have to wear a uniform.

I'd love to know your reference for this. (Hint: there isn't one)

Weapons Grade
4th Sep 2019, 20:24
I'd love to know your reference for this. (Hint: there isn't one)
Me too - I can't think if any reference which comes to mind, except by way of a reference in a company manual, which can easily be set aside in such a case as given.

Airbubba
4th Sep 2019, 20:56
Me too - I can't think if any reference which comes to mind, except by way of a reference in a company manual, which can easily be set aside in such a case as given.

In fact, I believe most large U.S. airlines have a procedure in the operations manual allowing operation of the aircraft without the proper uniform. You don't want a plane parked because someone's suitcase is stolen overseas. You are supposed to get an authorization message from the ops department. Or, so they tell me. ;) I've certainly left my uniform in the closet of an international hotel on a trip that alternated operating legs and deadheads in civilian clothes.

There are similar procedures for operating with faxed or emailed copies of licenses and medicals if the originals are lost or stolen downline although this may only apply to domestic operations.

A United pilot showed up for a flight in civvies a couple of years ago:

United Airlines replaced a pilot before takeoff on Saturday after she boarded in civilian clothes and told passengers over the intercom that both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were liars and that she was getting a divorce, witnesses said. The airline on Sunday declined to identify the pilot or comment beyond a previous statement apologizing to customers, many of whom left the plane out of concern for their safety.

The flight from Austin, Texas, to San Francisco took off with a new pilot about 90 minutes late, passengers said.

“She shows up dressed like a civilian and asked us to take a vote to see whether we should have her change into her uniform or fly as is,” passenger Pam O’Neal told KPIX television upon landing in San Francisco.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-united-pilot/united-pilot-replaced-after-intercom-rant-while-dressed-as-civilian-idUSKBN15R0RC

ph-sbe
4th Sep 2019, 21:03
I'd love to know your reference for this. (Hint: there isn't one)

This sparked my interest and I researched a little. This is an interesting read: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320940177_Flammability_on_textile_of_flight_crew_professiona l_clothing

TL;DR: be careful what you are wearing in terms of flammability.

In this case, it really doesn't matter as the study found that air crew uniforms are typically made of flammable materials, just as bad as civilian clothing.

PPRuNeUser0178
4th Sep 2019, 22:49
I must be in the minority, I donít take my licence with
me when I go on holiday.

Vokes55
5th Sep 2019, 00:02
I must be in the minority, I donít take my licence with
me when I go on holiday.


Given the number of Easyjet flights that get cancelled on a daily basis due to lack of crew, Iíd say itís the only way to increase your chances of actually getting to where you want to go on that day, and not four days later.



Did it one day as well, didnít feel need to play stand up comedian in front of the passengers though.
Kept the cockpit door closed, nobody knew...

This. Unfortunately the days of the Ďsilent professionalí are probably behind us.

misd-agin
5th Sep 2019, 03:00
I must be in the minority, I donít take my licence with
me when I go on holiday.

I don't know where you keep yours but in the U.S. most guys keep their license in their wallet. So it goes to the gym, pool, shopping, dinner, movies, holiday, sporting events, etc, etc.

misd-agin
5th Sep 2019, 03:03
Years ago I saw a coworker in slacks, casual shoes, a sport polo shirt at an international destination. "On vacation?" "No, I'm working. They asked 'how quickly can you get to the airport?" I said with my uniform or as I'm dressed right now? They asked what I was wearing and said 'good enough.' So here I am."

giggitygiggity
5th Sep 2019, 03:47
I don't know where you keep yours but in the U.S. most guys keep their license in their wallet. So it goes to the gym, pool, shopping, dinner, movies, holiday, sporting events, etc, etc.

EASA licences aren't on little photocards, they are in a passport sized wallet (albeit 5 times as thick!) and is simply 2 A4 pages (license and medical) with the required info on and the odd TREs signature. There is no photograph. How are american licenses signed? Do you have a counterpart?

Mine never leaves my flight case except from the occasioanl sim revalidation or medical, although I generally take one of my company IDs with me on holiday. I think a photocard license in Europe would be sensible (minus Orville and Wilbur, Frank Whittle perhaps?). My best friend is a train driver and his train license (UK) looks identical to an EU driving license, therefore arranged in a very familiar format.

Not my photo...

BluSdUp
5th Sep 2019, 04:50
Ok, I am just referring to old CAA Cpt BjÝrn The Calibrator as I show up in Oslo for 10 day In Greenland via CPH and Vagar in proper warm Army Field Jacket and Jeans.
Made me buy black pants at the Main terminal.
Felt like an idiot not knowing about this. After all we calibrate half of North Norway that winter looking like some ragtag bush ops.
International flights different he said. Didnt argue with BjÝrn , he was CAA and he was Boss. Great chap.
Anyway
This was back in 1994, things has changed Eh.
So standby duty: Speedo at the beech ! " How quick can you be at the airport?"
There is a Youtube clip you will struggle to erase !

Peace and love
Cpt B

Meester proach
5th Sep 2019, 04:56
Ok, I am just referring to old CAA Cpt BjÝrn The Calibrator as I show up in Oslo for 10 day In Greenland via CPH and Vagar in proper warm Army Field Jacket and Jeans.
Made me buy black pants at the Main terminal.
Felt like an idiot not knowing about this. After all we calibrate half of North Norway that winter looking like some ragtag bush ops.
International flights different he said. Didnt argue with BjÝrn , he was CAA and he was Boss. Great chap.
Anyway
This was back in 1994, things has changed Eh.
So standby duty: Speedo at the beech ! " How quick can you be at the airport?"
There is a Youtube clip you will struggle to erase !

Peace and love
Cpt B
I donít believe anyone wears speedos at a norwegian beach.....

Iíd not want to make a song and dance about it. Doesnít actually reflect that well on the company that they couldnít find a pilot, dressed like a pilot, to be the pilot .

beardy
5th Sep 2019, 05:16
I have reservations about him identifying his family as passengers. In any problems in the cabin they would be valuable hostages/targets. He did not have to point them out. No problems, this time.
The Dft did at one time briefly consider banning crew relatives in the cabin.

Dan Winterland
5th Sep 2019, 07:39
Except for the fact that on International flights You have to wear a uniform.

i think the rules vary. One of my previous employers only required uniforms for revenue fights. I one recovered a 747 from maintenance wearing jeans and a t shirt. It was an international flight. However, where I work now, the rule is that if you’re on the GD, you have to be in uniform to clear immigration.

Herod
5th Sep 2019, 07:55
Positioning, in uniform. Owing to a crewing mix-up, there was no pilot. I rang, and offered to operate. Nope, over total flight hours in last 28 days; couldn't operate till the following day. (we were working hard). The pilot who should have got off, having finished a week away from home, was told to operate, and have another night in the hotel at destination.

double_barrel
5th Sep 2019, 08:11
I must be in the minority, I donít take my licence with
me when I go on holiday.

Perhaps more to the point, do you guys refrain from a glass of wine with a meal before traveling on holiday or deadheading, on the off chance that you might have to step up to the flight deck within the next 8 hours?

lederhosen
5th Sep 2019, 08:23
Seems like a refreshing dose of common sense. In earlier times I can remember doing ferry flights in normal clothes. I am equally impressed that Easyjet ops can make a decision that quickly. The whole thing reflects well on them, including the open communication.

OldLurker
5th Sep 2019, 08:33
Perhaps more to the point, do you guys refrain from a glass of wine with a meal before traveling on holiday or deadheading, on the off chance that you might have to step up to the flight deck within the next 8 hours?Surely when an off-duty professional pilot gets a phone call saying “we’re short of a pilot, can you fly today?” they make a grown-up assessment whether they’re fit and able to fly, and if not for any reason, they say “sorry, no, unable.” Depending on their employer thay may have to explain why: “sorry, no, I’m drunk.” OTOH, if by an outside chance they’re sober and willing to fly, that’s when they turn up in civvies.

Sobelena
5th Sep 2019, 09:15
Perhaps more to the point, do you guys refrain from a glass of wine with a meal before traveling on holiday or deadheading, on the off chance that you might have to step up to the flight deck within the next 8 hours?

Surely when an off-duty professional pilot gets a phone call saying “we’re short of a pilot, can you fly today?” they make a grown-up assessment whether they’re fit and able to fly, and if not for any reason, they say “sorry, no, unable.”

I was looking at that question from another perspective. In light of recent and past events, what if a pilot becomes incapacitated and you could be an extra pair of professional hands to assist the remaining pilot (assuming a two crew FD of course)?

q400_driver
5th Sep 2019, 09:19
I've flown in plain clothes as well, once while ferrying, the other time I was called from a standby before my standby even begun. I was in a shop, fetching groceries when the dispatch called. Apparently they called somebody before, an hour went by, something happened to this guy so the ops were running out of time and options.

License not being on your person is not a problem. If you get a ramp check and don't have it on you, the ops have a copy of it and can email it to whoever is interested to see it. A much more important piece of kit is the crew member certificate/and/or any proxy cards you might need to pass through security.

wiggy
5th Sep 2019, 09:40
I was looking at that question from another perspective. In light of recent and past events, what if a pilot becomes incapacitated and you could be an extra pair of professional hands to assist the remaining pilot (assuming a two crew FD of course)?

As others have said you would have to use your professional judgement.

Certainly when travelling on "my own dollar" I'm not going to sit in my seat like a coiled spring, refusing a glass of wine or a beer, just in case.

Meester proach
5th Sep 2019, 09:53
I have reservations about him identifying his family as passengers. In any problems in the cabin they would be valuable hostages/targets. He did not have to point them out. No problems, this time.
The Dft did at one time briefly consider banning crew relatives in the cabin.
thatís what I was thinking

B737900er
5th Sep 2019, 10:09
Cool story, however, who is sad enough to go on holiday with their pilot license?

Dct_Mopas
5th Sep 2019, 10:25
Cool story, however, who is sad enough to go on holiday with their pilot license?

If you read the story in full then youíll find the guy noticed the flight was delayed before leaving home for the airport. Quick look on the easyJet rostering system and noticed they were struggling to get a Captain for the flight due to the huge delays from the french ATC system failing the day before.

So this Captain took his licence and ID just in case they were still struggling when he arrived for the flight.

neilki
5th Sep 2019, 12:55
In fact, I believe most large U.S. airlines have a procedure in the operations manual allowing operation of the aircraft without the proper uniform. You don't want a plane parked because someone's suitcase is stolen overseas. You are supposed to get an authorization message from the ops department. Or, so they tell me. ;) I've certainly left my uniform in the closet of an international hotel on a trip that alternated operating legs and deadheads in civilian clothes.

There are similar procedures for operating with faxed or emailed copies of licenses and medicals if the originals are lost or stolen downline although this may only apply to domestic operations.

A United pilot showed up for a flight in civvies a couple of years ago:


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-united-pilot/united-pilot-replaced-after-intercom-rant-while-dressed-as-civilian-idUSKBN15R0RC
In FAA land we can no longer use a Photocopy/EMail from Crew Records etc. A temporary certificate has to be requested on https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/
This is a recent change and may not be as well known as some.
#PSA

neilki
5th Sep 2019, 12:56
Cool story, however, who is sad enough to go on holiday with their pilot license?
Anyone wanting to Jumpseat home.....

foxcharliep2
5th Sep 2019, 13:39
Seems like a refreshing dose of common sense. In earlier times I can remember doing ferry flights in normal clothes. I am equally impressed that Easyjet ops can make a decision that quickly. The whole thing reflects well on them, including the open communication.

Absolutely agree with your comment.

Ages back while on B-737 we deadheaded as crew from FRA to GVA in civvies to start the first leg of a 4 day European rotation early next morning.
We arrived in GVA - our suitcases didn't.
Next morning suitcases were still missing.
We decided to operate the flight in civvies - made an announcement ( lunch in FRA, dinner in GVA, suitcases gone ... ) and flew the flight in civvies before ending the rotation in FRA as suitcases were still MIA.
They turned up a few days later having been sent to Damascus, of all places despite having a DH label on them for GVA..

No complaints, everybody happy - except for us as we missed a night-stop in Ankara.,

Airbubba
5th Sep 2019, 14:54
In FAA land we can no longer use a Photocopy/EMail from Crew Records etc. A temporary certificate has to be requested on https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/
This is a recent change and may not be as well known as some.
#PSA

Thanks for the update. :ok:

Perhaps more to the point, do you guys refrain from a glass of wine with a meal before traveling on holiday or deadheading, on the off chance that you might have to step up to the flight deck within the next 8 hours?

Whether you could legally drink alcohol while on a company deadhead out of uniform has been the subject of debate where I've worked. Domestic folks would say of course you can't drink, you are on duty. International types would say, of course you can, we do it all the time.

Inevitably, someone has an incident or is unavailable to operate and the policy gets 'clarified'.

On some international sectors deadheading crew are required to be in civilian clothes for security reasons, on others they must be in uniform for crew status in customs and immigration.

oceancrosser
5th Sep 2019, 15:04
I have reservations about him identifying his family as passengers. In any problems in the cabin they would be valuable hostages/targets. He did not have to point them out. No problems, this time.
The Dft did at one time briefly consider banning crew relatives in the cabin.

That would not be beyond the sheer idiocy that goes on in the UK Dft.

ph-sbe
5th Sep 2019, 18:42
Cool story, however, who is sad enough to go on holiday with their pilot license?
Those with a license small enough to fit in your wallet. Like here in FAA-land where it's the size of a credit card.

Mine is always in my wallet. Not because I need it, but because I might need it. Just like my health insurance card, backup credit card, AOPA card, etc.

Willy Miller
5th Sep 2019, 19:54
Have flown in jeans and T as was positioning with uniform in hold and operating pilot fell ill. ID and a hi-viz was all that was needed.

Saw an EZY FO going to the aircraft in alpinestars leather jeans and boots but with work shirt and tie (forgot his kit bag on day one)

i nearly did the same commuting by motorbike once but found some trousers in lost and found box!

Banana Joe
5th Sep 2019, 20:26
Anyone wanting to Jumpseat home.....
Sometimes pilots go where they could also do some scenic flights. There you go, you need a license for that.

hans brinker
6th Sep 2019, 06:01
Except for the fact that on International flights You have to wear a uniform.
At least outside the Cockpit ,,,,,,,
Then again DenimAir solved that problem,,,,

Sadly cockpit didn't get jeans...
The only time I tried to ferry an aircraft in jeans Spanish security didn't let me past until I listed myself as a jump seater....

Thad Jarvis
7th Sep 2019, 07:44
It’s only ‘news’ because he stood at the front and rambled on about it. Plenty have done it and plenty more will.

NAV GREEN
8th Sep 2019, 21:24
Yawn, been done before by a good friend on a flight to MBA, only difference being he didnít want the glory of blowing his own trumpet in front of the passengers he just wanted to go on holiday, typical easyJet spin what a hero ! HR loving him

3Greens
8th Sep 2019, 21:53
Wouldnít he have taken his uniform too in that case? Still a bit of a weirdo imo.

JimNtexas
8th Sep 2019, 22:37
I don't know where you keep yours but in the U.S. most guys keep their license in their wallet. So it goes to the gym, pool, shopping, dinner, movies, holiday, sporting events, etc, etc.

In the Old World a lot of licensees are pretty large affairs with lots of pages. Because that is what some King wanted back in 1066.

Someday they will join the developed countries and get credit card sized licenses, the way God and George Washington wanted.

beardy
8th Sep 2019, 23:58
During positioning through Miami to pick up an airframe my suitcase went missing. Being unable to buy sober clothing in Punta Cana I had to operate back in what was available from a beach shop.

Airbubba
9th Sep 2019, 00:27
In the Old World a lot of licensees are pretty large affairs with lots of pages.

I've got a couple of overseas ATPL's from years ago. They have a picture, a little cord and a multitude of signatures and stamps, any of which can expire. Seems like there was a base check, an instrument check, a line check and an emergency check. The checks had a date and the signatures had another date and they were always expiring (FAA licenses never expire :ok: however I guess the same checkride information is in the training records). The Brits and Ozmates were always bragging about how much their licenses back home cost and how hard it was to write the exams. Some cultures thrive on complexity I suppose.

The FAA has proposed putting pictures on pilot licenses for years now but as far as I know the 'certificates' have not been changed, perhaps due to opposition from groups like the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association.

FAA proposes including photos on pilot licenses

By Mike M. Ahlers, CNNNovember 18, 2010 2:49 p.m. ESThttp://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/TRAVEL/11/18/pilots.id.photos/story.pilot.license.faa.jpg.jpg

If you're not Orville or Wilbur Wright, your picture is not on your pilot license, though the law has required it since 2004.


Washington (CNN) -- The Federal Aviation Administration announced Thursday a proposal to include pilots' photographs on their pilot licenses -- something that was required by law in 2004 but has yet to be enacted.

The announcement comes one month after Rep. John Mica, R-Florida, criticized the agency for dragging its feet, noting that the only picture on the current FAA license is that of aviation pioneers Orville and Wilbur Wright.

Under the new FAA proposal, pilots will get licenses -- or "certificates," in FAA parlance -- with their photographs on them, which will be valid for eight years. The proposal does not call for a biometric identifier, such as a fingerprint -- something that the 2004 law said should be included if "the administrator considers [it] necessary."

"The Department of Transportation is committed to keeping the traveling public safe," said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood in a statement. "This is an important safeguard to help make sure individuals can't pose as pilots, whatever their intentions."

"Our current certificates are plastic and tamper-resistant, but this proposal will make them even more secure," said FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt, a former airline pilot.

An FAA official said the biometric identifier is under consideration.

"It is mind-boggling that six years [after passing the law], after spending millions of dollars, the FAA license still does not have a photograph," Mica, the ranking member on the House Transportation Committee, wrote in a letter last month to Babbitt, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Transportation Security Administrator John Pistole.

At issue is the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004. Among its many provisions: a requirement that the FAA administrator develop pilots' licenses "resistant to tampering, alteration, and counterfeiting." The law also requires new licenses to include a photograph, and be capable of accommodating other forms of security.

Boeing 7E7
9th Sep 2019, 08:22
Many easyJet pilots look scruffy in their uniforms anyway, as they walk through the terminal with their jackets undone and childrenís back pack on. So having a pilot dressed in jeans and t shirt looked quite good, in comparison. What a self glorifying pilot!

Flying Wild
9th Sep 2019, 09:27
Many easyJet pilots look scruffy in their uniforms anyway, as they walk through the terminal with their jackets undone and childrenís back pack on. So having a pilot dressed in jeans and t shirt looked quite good, in comparison. What a self glorifying pilot!

Whatís wrong with a rucksack? I changed from using a trolley bag for 8 years to a rucksack (a smart looking Swissgear one) and have found it to be much more comfortable. Having had some shoulder issues, my physio reckoned some blame could be attributed to towing a bag and lifting/twisting it up stairs for many years.

flydive1
9th Sep 2019, 09:31
In the Old World a lot of licensees are pretty large affairs with lots of pages. Because that is what some King wanted back in 1066.

You mean, like Canada?

Herod
9th Sep 2019, 09:36
the way God and George Washington wanted.

I thought over there they were one and the same.