Ryanair downsizing

[DutchExpat]

https://vimeo.com/350780012/5abde31242

[procede]

Not sure why he is blaming the MAX delivery delays whilst downsizing (including cutting aircraft numbers) for economic reasons. It seems to be a blessing in disguise.

[atakacs]

What about Brexit ?

[Vendee]

His lips were moving.

[gearlever]

He makes it very clear who will pay the bill .......

[Less Hair]

If Ryanair has a cold the rest of the industry is bound for tuberculosis. Wonder who will be next?

[dcoded]

Hm..
Aren't the unions threatening with some form of industrial action in a few weeks?
Then I find this message more than a "coincidence"
Perhaps a threat in disguise of what will be the outcome if "costs" are increased due to new agreements and "loss of profits" in case of industrial actions.
Then when they are axing bases and employees they have a very "good" scapegoat, simply blame the unions.
Just some random speculations.

[lomapaseo]

Not sure why he is blaming the MAX delivery delays whilst downsizing (including cutting aircraft numbers) for economic reasons. It seems to be a blessing in disguise.

The Max delivery issues affect the plan for need of both pilots and crew combining with a loss of interest by the public in local flying. Yes, one can separate them, but some will lose their job for one or the other reason.

[Papa_Golf]

Typical MOL whining before potential industrial actions. Nothing to see here, move on.

[McBruce]

Same old drivel as winter season approaches just <insert excuse here> and squeeze your suppliers/staff harder.

[compton3bravo]

I love the part where he says that some redundancies might have to be made because hardly any pilots have left voluntarily..Of how I laughed!

[dboy]

What is so funny about it? The company’s profit has decreased again and the ones working for Ryanair might lose their job!! I dont understand the joke. Aviation is facing difficult times again.

[172_driver]

Pilots and cabin crew alike "loose their job" every year to the extent necessary to match the winter program?
This was bound to happen, sooner or later. Nothing grows forever.

I presume seniority has not been properly implemented? I'd be worried if I was a contractor or a new hire.

Unless they're bluffing, but I am not so sure this time...

[SaulGoodman]

Is it the people who work for RYR that are in the dangerzone or the contractors that are “self employed”.

This MOL is a greedy mofo who does not respect the men and women that keep the airplanes in the air.
Where I work we hired plenty of RYR pilots over the last 12 months so there are definately people leaving.

[zerotohero]

Id imagine contractors are fine as they are free if they don't fly apart from recurrent training. This to me looks like a good way to lose Ryanair employees that are expensive and also weaken the union.

I did hear there are lots of quite rosters now and guys offered unpaid leave instead of standbys. Again id assume this is just Ryanair direct employment. Be interesting to hear how busy contractors are.

And they only made £262million in the last quarter.... oh boo hoo. How ever will they pay the light bill with a quarter of a billion in 3 months.

[SaulGoodman]

Id imagine contractors are fine as they are free if they don't fly apart from recurrent training. This to me looks like a good way to lose Ryanair employees that are expensive and also weaken the union.


If this is really the case I would strongly recommend to take out legal insurance that covers employment related issues. As long as there are contractors no direct employed pilot should loose his or her job!

[gearlever]

Poor shareholders....;)

[BluSdUp]

A fair warning , I must say.
But a bit of a worst case thing he is projecting. And I can not blame him with the nutters in power in the UK.
I must say he is not correct with regards to no one quitting.
I personally know several,and what is more SAS are doing the biggest hiring , post 9/11. KLM and just about every other larger European operator is hiring due to large pension groups the next 6 to 9 months.
The only exception being Norwegian, for obvious reasons.
Most Captains I talk to are flying close to maximum, contractors or RYR.
So here is a news flash from an observer: RYR does NOT have to many Pilots, just to many Cadets.
The fly them until 499hrs then mostly stby as at 500hrs they cost more.
Welcome to the 0 hrs Contract Club!
Regards
Cpt B

[BluSdUp]

Bingo!
Why do You think PB left!

[His dudeness]

"our partners, the unions"....

He really is a comedian....

[Too Few Stripes]

And clearly not a mathematician! Ours profits are down 21% on last year, which itself was 20% down on the previous year - a total reduction of 41%?? Really! Maybe the laws of Math are different in O’Leary land

[sprite1]

And clearly not a mathematician! Ours profits are down 21% on last year, which itself was 20% down on the previous year - a total reduction of 41%?? Really! Maybe the laws of Math are different in O’Leary land


Yeah, I agree. It’s how he speaks though. Bluster and confusion. Like the ‘18hrs work a week’ spiel he comes out with.

[Twiglet1]

I'm sure the redundancies will be from bases that have pi$$ed him off, coincidence of course

[Crusherrr]

Should I be concerned as someone looking to begin flight school soon?

[Miles Magister]

And clearly not a mathematician! Ours profits are down 21% on last year, which itself was 20% down on the previous year - a total reduction of 41%?? Really! Maybe the laws of Math are different in O’Leary land

I think they might have got Diane Abbott to help with their accounts

[polax52]

Should I be concerned as someone looking to begin flight school soon?
If you have a European passport then I'd start, should be a good time. If you only have a British passport then forget about it. Brexit combined with sympathy to green movement views mean that the British industry will be in decline.

[Training Risky]

Id imagine contractors are fine as they are free if they don't fly apart from recurrent training. This to me looks like a good way to lose Ryanair employees that are expensive and also weaken the union.

I did hear there are lots of quite rosters now and guys offered unpaid leave instead of standbys. Again id assume this is just Ryanair direct employment. Be interesting to hear how busy contractors are.

And they only made £262million in the last quarter.... oh boo hoo. How ever will they pay the light bill with a quarter of a billion in 3 months.

and how much tax do they pay in the Land of Leprechauns?! I hope the tax haven Celtic tiger gets its claws clipped after Brexit.

[BoeingLudo737]

No need to be racist

[polax52]

and how much tax do they pay in the Land of Leprechauns?! I hope the tax haven Celtic tiger gets its claws clipped after Brexit.
Think about your own tax situation. Everybody tries to minimise the tax which they pay, as long as it's done legally then it's totally acceptable.

[Papa_Golf]

and how much tax do they pay in the Land of Leprechauns?! I hope the tax haven Celtic tiger gets its claws clipped after Brexit.

Mate the amount of taxes to be paid in Ireland is close to 40/50% of the gross salary. Not in FR anymore but I still keep my old payslips.

Tax heaven my a*s.

[172_driver]

Mate the amount of taxes to be paid in Ireland is close to 40/50% of the gross salary. Not in FR anymore but I still keep my old payslips.

Tax heaven my a*s.


The tax on income is in parity with other European countries.
What seemed (to me) to set Ireland apart from other places is the low cost of labour (employer's social charges). Also corporate tax rate is low.

Someone else can fill in more details.

[BlueVolta]

Downsize RYR « legacy » and hire through the new RYR ourfits in Poland or Malta....

[Less Hair]

Around 900 redundancies possible is what I hear.

[Tu.114]

Austrian media (https://orf.at/stories/3132263/) is reporting on pressure being exerted on Ryanairs Laudamotion subsidiary. If the labour council will not agree on various cost cutting measures, the 4 planned additional A320 might be cancelled and replaced by 4 wetleased FR 737s; 30 jobs are said to be at risk.

If, however, such an agreement was to be reached, Laudamotion "might reconsider" terminating those 30 employees. Sounds tempting...

[aerodestination]

"but remember that ryanair has the lowest costs of any airline in Europe"

well, and by far the lowest revenue... Sound like scaremongering to prevent actions and to get away with base closures and transfers. Off course the MAX issues are still real and with a smaller fleet the demand for pilots will be lower. This should only be a shorter term problem though.

[Paul Lupp]

Hm..
Aren't the unions threatening with some form of industrial action in a few weeks?
Then I find this message more than a "coincidence"

Me too.
I'm sure it wasn't that long ago that RYR cut a load of flights due to lack of pilots and other staff (or so MOL said at the time) yet now they have so many extra staff that they do not need.......

[Training Risky]

The tax on income is in parity with other European countries.
What seemed (to me) to set Ireland apart from other places is the low cost of labour (employer's social charges). Also corporate tax rate is low.

Someone else can fill in more details.
Quick google says it's 12.5%. As opposed to 19% in the UK and 21% in the USA (down from 35% pre-Trump!).

[Webby737]

Quick google says it's 12.5%. As opposed to 19% in the UK and 21% in the USA (down from 35% pre-Trump!).

Thats correct but I doubt if Ryanair will be paying too much Corporation Tax.
As the company is structured with Ryanair holdings PLC at the top looking after Ryanair Ireland, Ryanair UK, Ryanair Sun (based in Poland) and Laudamotion there would be many perfectly legal loopholes to avoid paying tax. Remember Starbucks a couple of years ago ?

I have a friend of mine who's a contact aircraft engineer here in Belgium, last year his accountant mentioned to him that he had paid more tax than Interbrew, (the owners of Stella Artois etc.)

Regardless of where a company is based, the companies at the top pay next to nothing, the people at the bottom pay nothing so that leaves the guys and girls in the middle to pay everything , I would assume that would be most of us here !

[ph-sbe]

This news is very interesting in light of the RYR air crew battling RYR in The Netherlands (see https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/610789-ryanair-pilot-strike-14.html). In that case, RYR argued that the base changes were needed out of economic necessity. Initially, RYR lost that case as they failed to provide compelling evidence that there was indeed an economic necessity, and the court ruled that the base changes were more likely to be an act of revenge to retaliate against striking crew.

This news may provide the arguments needed by RYR to convince the appeals court that indeed, they were (and are) facing the economic misery they said they were. That means that the initial judgement could be set aside.

[Longhitter]

ph-sbe:

It doesn't work that way in Dutch civil law. The appeals judge will and must decide based on the facts and circumstances at the time of the disputed base closure and redundancies, as brought forward by the conflicting parties. RYR already cited the base as 'underperforming' and other economic difficulties and this argument was thrown out by the judge. The MAX grounding popped up after the start of conflict and can not serve as an argument in any appeal.

[Less Hair]

Cologne-Schönefeld, FR's last remaining domestic german route is closing this winter.

[Pilotenguy]

From another group :

Ryanair maths debunked as FUD


-----
MOL video: "41% loss in two years"

Aside from the fact that any competent accounting dept. can doctor the profit/loss figures in either direction, this figure of 41% is mathematically incorrect because you cannot add up percentages in this way. e.g.: 100 minus 20% is 80, 80 minus 21% is 63.2. Compare 100 and 63.2 is 36.8% less, not 41% less.

Just sayin'
It's all FUD


-----
MOL video: "only 30 MAX's by summer 2020, instead of 58 as planned"

Under the "2014 Boeing Contract" Ryanair expects 20 MAX's by 31/3/2020. Another 52 by 31/3/2021. So 30 MAXs by "summer" 2020 seems to be exactly as planned.

The net increase in a/c in the Ryanair Group (including increase in A320 and planned returns/disposals) is 28 by 31/3/2020 and another 30 by 31/3/2021. So, the figure of 58 is the total net group fleet increase by 2021, not MAX deliveries by 2020.

In the same sentence, MOL mentions surplus of 600 crew, which at 2019 crewing ratio is 17 a/c. The actual number of MAXs expected to be delivered by summer 2020 is therefore 13?

Or is it all just FUD?


-----
further maths on "delay of MAX aircraft deliveries"

In his video, MOL mentions a shortfall of 28 a/c (from 58 down to 30) affecting 600 crew.
In today's letter to BALPA, Ryanair mentions a shortfall of "at least 30" a/c affecting 900 crew.

According to the 2019 annual report, Ryanair's crewing ratio is 35.8 per a/c. Pilots per a/c is 11.6.

28 a/c = 1001 crew of which 324 pilots
30 a/c = 1073 crew of which 347 pilots
600 crew = 17 a/c and 194 pilots
900 crew = 25 a/c and 291 pilots

ie, none of Ryanair's numbers are correct. It's all just FUD.


-----
DH letter to Strutton: "500 surplus pilots"

on 31/3/19 (FY/2019 report) we had 11.6 pilots per a/c
2018 we had 11.2 pilots per a/c
2017 we had 10.1 pilots per a/c

The 2017 ratio was too low hence rostering crisis and increased ratio in 2018. Ratio increased further in 2019.

Assuming the 2018 ratio is the "correct" one for RYR and the 2019 ratio was too high, this would mean we have 167 surplus pilots. Not 500.

However: Ryanair plans to have 499 aircraft on 31/3/2020.
at 2019 ratio we will need 5770 pilots by then
at 2018 ratio we will need 5593 pilots by then
Therefore, we need to INCREASE our pilot workforce by 324 (or 147 at 2018 ratio) if we want to meet the 499 a/c target

500 surplus pilots? It's FUD.


-----
Winter Grounding:

2017-18: 60 a/c = 15% of fleet
2018-19: 65 a/c = 15% of fleet
2019-20: if it's to be 15% again, should be 71 a/c

When they come out with a statement: "Ryanair will have to ground 71 a/c next winter due ... (Brexit/MAX/???)", we know one thing: it's merely FUD, because that is what they would have done anyway.

[Hotel Tango]

Whatever the facts are it really doesn't matter if MOL can get the press to swallow his BS hook, line, and sinker, which he normally does!

[FlightDetent]

Imagine he lets a balloon float just before the BA pilots are to decide about a strike, that the market is contracting. Literally hours before their final negotiations. Should they get weak in the knees and do not boxer a serious pay rise out of their employer, the overall pilot remuneration level stays not increased. Happy ending, or am I seeing things?

[ph-sbe]

ph-sbe:

It doesn't work that way in Dutch civil law. The appeals judge will and must decide based on the facts and circumstances at the time of the disputed base closure and redundancies, as brought forward by the conflicting parties. RYR already cited the base as 'underperforming' and other economic difficulties and this argument was thrown out by the judge. The MAX grounding popped up after the start of conflict and can not serve as an argument in any appeal.

The judgement which is being appealed says:


Ryanair stelt dat de operationele omvorming van Eindhoven van basis naar bestemming is gegrond op bedrijfseconomische redenen, maar die stelling van Ryanair is ongeloofwaardig


Which, loosely translated, says that the court does not buy RYR's argument that the decision to close EHV was based for economic reasons. During the appeals proceedings, RYR will have every opportunity to make that point again. Yes, the initial court threw out RYR's argument, but that does not mean that the appeals court will do the same. In civil court proceedings, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, in this case the air crew. RYR only has to establish that they closed EHV for economic reasons and the plaintiff needs to prove retaliation. My point is that RYR's arguments that they decided to close EHV for economic reasons have only gotten better. Does that mean they will win? Maybe not, as the courts in .nl generally are heavily favorited towards the employee. I'm just saying that this /could/ have an effect on the proceedings.

[krismiler]

the companies at the top pay next to nothing, the people at the bottom pay nothing so that leaves the guys and girls in the middle to pay everything

How true, not just the companies at the top either. Dentists, solicitors, accountants etc decide how much they want to take home and set their fees to give them that amount after tax. We effectively pay their tax bill for them from our after tax take home pay. These guys don't pay tax themselves, they pass it on to those using their services. Same thing with big company CEOs, wants $20 million in hand so gets paid $40 million to allow for this.

Perhaps we should do the same and bargain for take home pay instead, with airlines passing on our tax bill to the passengers.

[the_stranger]

The judgement which is being appealed says:



Which, loosely translated, says that the court does not buy RYR's argument that the decision to close EHV was based for economic reasons. During the appeals proceedings, RYR will have every opportunity to make that point again. Yes, the initial court threw out RYR's argument, but that does not mean that the appeals court will do the same. In civil court proceedings, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, in this case the air crew. RYR only has to establish that they closed EHV for economic reasons and the plaintiff needs to prove retaliation. My point is that RYR's arguments that they decided to close EHV for economic reasons have only gotten better. Does that mean they will win? Maybe not, as the courts in .nl generally are heavily favorited towards the employee. I'm just saying that this /could/ have an effect on the proceedings.
Problem is (for Ryanair) that the closure isn't now, but was some time ago.
They can't come with current economic circumstances to defend a closure of Eindhoven at the time they closed it.

At that time, it was still economic to fly to and from EHV, especially seeing they continued to do so, just with other crew (not based there).

[Twiglet1]

From another group :

Ryanair maths debunked as FUD


-----
MOL video: "41% loss in two years"

Aside from the fact that any competent accounting dept. can doctor the profit/loss figures in either direction, this figure of 41% is mathematically incorrect because you cannot add up percentages in this way. e.g.: 100 minus 20% is 80, 80 minus 21% is 63.2. Compare 100 and 63.2 is 36.8% less, not 41% less.

Just sayin'
It's all FUD


-----
MOL video: "only 30 MAX's by summer 2020, instead of 58 as planned"

Under the "2014 Boeing Contract" Ryanair expects 20 MAX's by 31/3/2020. Another 52 by 31/3/2021. So 30 MAXs by "summer" 2020 seems to be exactly as planned.

The net increase in a/c in the Ryanair Group (including increase in A320 and planned returns/disposals) is 28 by 31/3/2020 and another 30 by 31/3/2021. So, the figure of 58 is the total net group fleet increase by 2021, not MAX deliveries by 2020.

In the same sentence, MOL mentions surplus of 600 crew, which at 2019 crewing ratio is 17 a/c. The actual number of MAXs expected to be delivered by summer 2020 is therefore 13?

Or is it all just FUD?


-----
further maths on "delay of MAX aircraft deliveries"

In his video, MOL mentions a shortfall of 28 a/c (from 58 down to 30) affecting 600 crew.
In today's letter to BALPA, Ryanair mentions a shortfall of "at least 30" a/c affecting 900 crew.

According to the 2019 annual report, Ryanair's crewing ratio is 35.8 per a/c. Pilots per a/c is 11.6.

28 a/c = 1001 crew of which 324 pilots
30 a/c = 1073 crew of which 347 pilots
600 crew = 17 a/c and 194 pilots
900 crew = 25 a/c and 291 pilots

ie, none of Ryanair's numbers are correct. It's all just FUD.


-----
DH letter to Strutton: "500 surplus pilots"

on 31/3/19 (FY/2019 report) we had 11.6 pilots per a/c
2018 we had 11.2 pilots per a/c
2017 we had 10.1 pilots per a/c

The 2017 ratio was too low hence rostering crisis and increased ratio in 2018. Ratio increased further in 2019.

Assuming the 2018 ratio is the "correct" one for RYR and the 2019 ratio was too high, this would mean we have 167 surplus pilots. Not 500.

However: Ryanair plans to have 499 aircraft on 31/3/2020.
at 2019 ratio we will need 5770 pilots by then
at 2018 ratio we will need 5593 pilots by then
Therefore, we need to INCREASE our pilot workforce by 324 (or 147 at 2018 ratio) if we want to meet the 499 a/c target

500 surplus pilots? It's FUD.


-----
Winter Grounding:

2017-18: 60 a/c = 15% of fleet
2018-19: 65 a/c = 15% of fleet
2019-20: if it's to be 15% again, should be 71 a/c

When they come out with a statement: "Ryanair will have to ground 71 a/c next winter due ... (Brexit/MAX/???)", we know one thing: it's merely FUD, because that is what they would have done anyway.
I've never worked for an Airline that had the correct establishment. It suggests that no-one is leaving FR either. Its just a way of reducing the crews over the winter. - simples

[fox niner]

The way Rayanair tried to close down their Eindhoven base was insulting.
An insult to the whole country and contemptuous to the way things are run here. That is why they could not win. If you start business here, there are many opportunities to make money. But being a company/employer, that automatically makes you responsible for your workforce if you choose to close down.
Dont like that? Well, readcthe verdict.
That responsibility in NON-negotiable. I have tried to explain that a few months ago.
A company does not have to take care of its employees ONLY if it goes bust. That is why these proceedings are such a great read. It is almost funny how Ryr tried to twist the facts in Eindhoven. Looking forward to their appeal. What an outfit.

[Longhitter]

sbe,

RYR would have to come up with new, compelling evidence that there were economic reasons for closing the base at the time of base closure. Whatever economic reasons arose after that: they are irrelevant for the EIN court case.

[squarecrow]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-ryanair-hldgs-france-antitrust/eu-tells-france-to-recover-8-5-million-euros-illegal-aid-from-ryanair-idUKKCN1US126Worth a read. On Friday EU Orders France to recover 8.5million euros in illegal aid granted to RYR at Montpelier.

[FRogge]

Amazing that NAS and FR being about equally profitable in the last quarter. But no doubt that FR can probably cope with difficult times because of all the money they made the previous years.

[nicolai]

Eire's no tax haven for individuals, only for corporations.The corporation tax rate is low, but people who live there, which does include Mr O'Leary, pay taxes typical of European countries.

And as far as I know, Mr O'Leary does pay his personal taxes in full without any creative accounting. Only the company, Ryanair, tries to dodge paying for things in many ways.

[tubby linton]

MOL started his career as a tax accountant.

[Crepello]

The way Rayanair [sic] tried to close down their Eindhoven base was insulting.
An insult to the whole country and contemptuous to the way things are run here. That is why they could not win. If you start business here, there are many opportunities to make money. But being a company/employer, that automatically makes you responsible for your workforce if you choose to close down.
Dont like that? Well, readcthe verdict.
That responsibility in NON-negotiable. I have tried to explain that a few months ago.
A company does not have to take care of its employees ONLY if it goes bust. That is why these proceedings are such a great read. It is almost funny how Ryr tried to twist the facts in Eindhoven. Looking forward to their appeal. What an outfit.
Yet apparently EIN was underperforming financially - perhaps unsurprising, given NL's labor regulation and hideously high cost of simply attempting to conduct business. Seems entirely fair for a company to curtail operations anywhere that isn't paying its way. And workers are responsible for their own destiny - not their employer, not any government - it's called personal accountability. But no, the Dutch courts appear to disagree - a sage reminder to any entity considering investing in, creating employment in The Netherlands. In short, *don't* - unless you've immense reserves to cover the risk. I'm curious as to why MOL would make such a costly error - though I wonder if he was blackmailed into "investing" in order to be granted landing slots?

Not a fan of MOL as an individual, but I admire all he's accomplished. And anything he can to to weaken unions will benefit the traveling public. Strikes grind my gears - you don't like your pay/conditions, go work for somebody else, rather than issuing ransom demands against the very people who pay your wages.

I lived in The Netherlands for several years of frustration - understaffed businesses, endemically hideous customer service, and little being done where *I* worked because at any given time, half the payroll seemed to be on vacation (paid), taking a half day (paid), experiencing a personal emergency (paid) or indefinite sick leave due to 'stress' - naturally, on full pay. Occasionally we *would* get a solid day's work done, but I heard that all the successful Dutch entrepreneurs had already emigrated, so I moved to Texas - bingo! Booming economy thanks to low costs of employment, and people can be fired on the spot for any reason, anytime - so we're productive and dedicated, and give our customers the respect they deserve. See a plot of land you like in one of our fast growing cities? Boom - you can open a retail establishment there within about 6 weeks from permit applications to breaking ground. California would take 3 years, plus who knows how many back-handers to corrupt liberal politicians. Benelux.... I'm assuming it would be deemed "not possible". ;) :P

[cumulustratus]

Yet apparently EIN was underperforming financially - perhaps unsurprising, given NL's labor regulation and hideously high cost of simply attempting to conduct business. Seems entirely fair for a company to curtail operations anywhere that isn't paying its way. And workers are responsible for their own destiny - not their employer, not any government - it's called personal accountability. But no, the Dutch courts appear to disagree - a sage reminder to any entity considering investing in, creating employment in The Netherlands. In short, *don't* - unless you've immense reserves to cover the risk. I'm curious as to why MOL would make such a costly error - though I wonder if he was blackmailed into "investing" in order to be granted landing slots?

Not a fan of MOL as an individual, but I admire all he's accomplished. And anything he can to to weaken unions will benefit the traveling public. Strikes grind my gears - you don't like your pay/conditions, go work for somebody else, rather than issuing ransom demands against the very people who pay your wages.

I lived in The Netherlands for several years of frustration - understaffed businesses, endemically hideous customer service, and little being done where *I* worked because at any given time, half the payroll seemed to be on vacation (paid), taking a half day (paid), experiencing a personal emergency (paid) or indefinite sick leave due to 'stress' - naturally, on full pay. Occasionally we *would* get a solid day's work done, but I heard that all the successful Dutch entrepreneurs had already emigrated, so I moved to Texas - bingo! Booming economy thanks to low costs of employment, and people can be fired on the spot for any reason, anytime - so we're productive and dedicated, and give our customers the respect they deserve. See a plot of land you like in one of our fast growing cities? Boom - you can open a retail establishment there within about 6 weeks from permit applications to breaking ground. California would take 3 years, plus who knows how many back-handers to corrupt liberal politicians. Benelux.... I'm assuming it would be deemed "not possible". ;) :P
​​​​​​
And the award for the least enlightened post of the day goes to...

[Jack D]

So I moved to Texas - bingo! Booming economy thanks to low costs of employment, and people can be fired on the spot for any reason, anytime - so we're productive and dedicated, and give our customers the respect they deserve. See a plot of land you like in one of our fast growing cities? Boom - you can open a retail establishment there within about 6 weeks.

El Paso perhaps ...?

[UAV689]

This video is no different to the memos of the past. You can see how unauthentic he is, having to read from a union busters cue cards.

People forget that there are 200 odd max coming. The company is very open about getting to moving 200m + per year. That plan has not changed.

One of PB legacy’s was to front load recruitment, they said it in one of their previous city announcements! Yes the max is a little late, but the company is still expanding, only last week announced new routes from BRS.

smoke and mirrors, all due to the ballot in UK, and strikes coming up in Portugal and Spain.

I hope the weak do not fall for it, for what happens in ryr will follow your career in terms of wages for ever!

[Global_Global]

Now the leopard does not lose it's spots... An extra reason to not want to be associated with this outfit in any way... Go to decent employers at any of the other low costs but stay away from this guy.. I can understand Peter Bellow his reasons to leave: try to manage a company in a professional way or in this intimidating pathetic lying and cheating way...

I refuse to fly them and wish all their employees all the best :(

[fab777]

[QUOTE=Crepello;10536115]Booming economy thanks to low costs of employment, and people can be fired on the spot for any reason, anytime -/QUOTE]

That is so cooool! I can fire people whenever I want, I am so powerful...

Wasn't particularly impressed by the quality of life in TX, btw, so maybe a less booming economy may be more beneficial to people.

[anto125]

I really hope you are right guys.
Nobody is saying they're going bankrupt soon, simply that thay have an important pilot surplus for the planning they had.
Everybody knows they're getting 200 737s max, but when?
Brexit is going to happen 99% with a no deal soon, do you have any details on that?
Let's be realistic guys, how can an airline face the future with such great unsolved points?
Mentioned numbers of crew excess may be exagerated for the reasons you mention above, but I really think we won't have an answer really soon on what's the plan other than cutting jobs...
Again I hope I'm wrong!

[UAV689]

Brexit is the go too standard excuse for everything at the moment. I am sick of it.

J2 last week said it’s having zero impact, brits will still holiday. Ryr said a few months ago, all plans are in place, it won’t cause that much of a drama. Until the disgruntled pilots ballot, then they wheel that excuse out again. The CFO last week was telling investors and press all is absolute rosey, yet mick and Eddie must scare the staff into submission again. It really is a tired and outdated form of management, and they are struggling to keep control for the last few years in the age of WhatsApp and fb etc.

A few few years ago they used SARS, just whatever excuse is close by is handy to scare the masses.

Every winter ryr parks aircraft, read the annual report and you can see this year is no exception. If people really think they will downsize crews with 200 new jets coming, you need your head tested and you are clearly the reason Vanv was invented. Not being able to see the big picture.

What at is the point in letting some crews go, when they will need them again when the maxes arrive! This is not a company shrinking it is still growing.

The lead time time to get crews through recruitment, through the sims, line training and to the line is ages. 6 months at least if you factor in the notice period at current employer, perhaps more for cadets. The sims are planned for the next 18months. They are still advertising daily for Ltc and Sfi...why is that....

bases may close, but this can and will always happen anyway, regardless in ryr. Look at gla a few years ago. Beaten into submission for new base agrement, told if it is not signed they will close the base. Guess what, it was signed, and they shut the base anyway 2 months later. If you are in a base of less than 5 aircraft and no significant infrastructure there that ryr need (ie hangers/stores/sims) its a risk you take being at a small base, for any airline.


BIG PICTURE PEOPLE


I really hope you are right guys.
Nobody is saying they're going bankrupt soon, simply that thay have an important pilot surplus for the planning they had.
Everybody knows they're getting 200 737s max, but when?
Brexit is going to happen 99% with a no deal soon, do you have any details on that?
Let's be realistic guys, how can an airline face the future with such great unsolved points?
Mentioned numbers of crew excess may be exagerated for the reasons you mention above, but I really think we won't have an answer really soon on what's the plan other than cutting jobs...
Again I hope I'm wrong!

[anto125]

Brexit is the go too standard excuse for everything at the moment. I am sick of it.

J2 last week said it’s having zero impact, brits will still holiday.

The lead time time to get crews through recruitment, through the sims, line training and to the line is ages. 6 months at least if you factor in the notice period at current employer, perhaps more for cadets. The sims are planned for the next 18months. They are still advertising daily for Ltc and Sfi...why is that....


BIG PICTURE PEOPLE





Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.

[SaulGoodman]

Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.
if you are so scared of losing your job why don’t you apply for a decent company?

[UAV689]

Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.


ryr cannot cancel the the max orders. The airbus order book is a ten year waiting list, the company cannot do anything else. Their expansion plans have painted them into a corner, let alone not having engineers, sims, etc to do anything other than 737s. Lauda in essence is a separate company.

uk government has already guaranteed rights for non Brit workers already in uk. I am certain if there was a future problem ryr would just do a paper “base” in the home country but operate them from uk, just they do to Morocco based pilots, they work in rak without a work permit and they carry a letter that says they are based in uk...!

The uk according to their last results provide 22% of their profits, they cannot pivot away from uk, nor risk giving share to easy/ba/j2.

According to the head of training only a couple of months ago they need 1000 pilots a year. What has changed? Did I miss the announcement that they have canceled the max orders? Did I miss the change to their growth plans they have signed off with the city? Nothing has fundamentally changed.

No, it’s just timing. Keep the BIG PICTURE.

[UAV689]

I see j2 just announced a roadshow at stn, and qatar another on in dub.

Eddie and mick may regret that latest video, those resignations he said have dried up may suddenly be increasing soon.

[Byrne11]

I see j2 just announced a roadshow at stn, and qatar another on in dub.

Eddie and mick may regret that latest video, those resignations he said have dried up may suddenly be increasing soon.

And I’m one of those guys going to the Jet2 one.

[1+F]

These guys will never change. The company is sitting on massive reserves and can withstand a lot of turbulence and is still making big profits.

However it is all about the bottom line and what the shareholders, especially the big shareholders, want to put in their pockets and it does not include employee happiness. Their policy is that the ATO feeds the right seat, the right seat feeds the left seat and the DECs make up the shortfall. This mean a continuous outward flow and that has stopped.

Do not forget Malta Air a new separate company that looks set up to assume routes from the mainline company and probably with different T and Cs. I was a part of them for a fews years and RYR should have been a company everybody was rushing to join but that is not their game.

[ph-sbe]

An insult to the whole country and contemptuous to the way things are run here. That is why they could not win. If you start business here, there are many opportunities to make money. But being a company/employer, that automatically makes you responsible for your workforce if you choose to close down.
Dont like that? Well, readcthe verdict.
That responsibility in NON-negotiable. I have tried to explain that a few months ago.
A company does not have to take care of its employees ONLY if it goes bust. That is why these proceedings are such a great read. It is almost funny how Ryr tried to twist the facts in Eindhoven. Looking forward to their appeal. What an outfit.

We agree on only one thing: "what an outfit".

There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job: the ridiculous labor laws. Here in the U.S., I can get let go at any time. That means there is virtually no risk for an employer to hire me. When I still lived in .nl, I was hired on a 1-year contract and another 1-year contract and another 1-year contract, simply because once I was hired on permanently, it was pretty much impossible to get let go. Big difference. I prefer the U.S. system over the .nl system because it is way more flexible.

That said, as I pointed out before, the courts and laws in .nl are heavily favorited towards employees, as is common in all of the EUSSR. This is perhaps also the reason why the GDP per capita is $48K for .nl and $59K for the U.S.

But most importantly: yes, it is likely that RYR will lose the case again, despite being more at liberty to discuss their economic performance. But all of that is irrelevant. In the end, RYR will still win, as they will no longer have the base. The only thing that is at stake for them is the price they have to pay to close the base. The real losers in the case are the crew. They pay heavily for the only mistake they made: choosing RYR to fly for. RYR sucks, and when I fly as a passenger, I prefer to pay a little more in order to have good service and a well-paid, happy crew. I will never fly RYR.

[davinci1]

They closed the cadet recruitment on CAE website...

[N4565L]

If Ryanair has a cold the rest of the industry is bound for tuberculosis. Wonder who will be next?

MOL has a solid track record for correctly predicting the industries trends

[SaulGoodman]

We agree on only one thing: "what an outfit".

There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job: the ridiculous labor laws. Here in the U.S., I can get let go at any time. That means there is virtually no risk for an employer to hire me. When I still lived in .nl, I was hired on a 1-year contract and another 1-year contract and another 1-year contract, simply because once I was hired on permanently, it was pretty much impossible to get let go. Big difference. I prefer the U.S. system over the .nl system because it is way more flexible.

That said, as I pointed out before, the courts and laws in .nl are heavily favorited towards employees, as is common in all of the EUSSR. This is perhaps also the reason why the GDP per capita is $48K for .nl and $59K for the U.S.

But most importantly: yes, it is likely that RYR will lose the case again, despite being more at liberty to discuss their economic performance. But all of that is irrelevant. In the end, RYR will still win, as they will no longer have the base. The only thing that is at stake for them is the price they have to pay to close the base. The real losers in the case are the crew. They pay heavily for the only mistake they made: choosing RYR to fly for. RYR sucks, and when I fly as a passenger, I prefer to pay a little more in order to have good service and a well-paid, happy crew. I will never fly RYR.

average working hours in the us per year: 1800
in NL: 1435
if you solely base your reasoning on GDP per capita you should take more factors into account.

[tomuchwork]

Back on topic. Recently crewplanning contacted me if I could work on my day off....not the first time this summer I want to add. Wanted to ask them to send one of the 1100 guys that we apparently have in excess but I did not want to end up as #1101 :E

As long as we cannot crew our aircraft with based crews on STBY I do not think we have too many pilots. We will see what they will pull out of the magic hat, something is coming(so they want desperate pilots to say yes to everything), but it is not too many pilots. Lot's of rumors around, as well about LDM and who's money is really into that company. Plus PB leaving and nobody really tells why..... fishy fishy.

[racedo]

MOL has a solid track record for correctly predicting the industries trends

Pretty much spot on.

Time and again he is the first out with calling the trends. Other airlines are slightly more conservative in their statements but I have heard WW from IAG and bosses of LH / AF and Easyjet concur in the past, well after the event that what MOL said was spot on.

It is not surprising that all the airlines bosses only speak together on rare occassions, there are legal reasons behind that. But the message is as much for heads of other airlines as it is for the public.

Whether people like it or not is completely and utterly irrelevant. Acting before you need to is way better than acting when you are forced to.

People complain about the Pilot shortage, forgetting that at the time MOL and Ryanair held their hands up and said we screwed up.

[racedo]

Plus PB leaving and nobody really tells why..... fishy fishy.

Getting an opportunity to join Easyjet as boss may have missed you.

PB was brought in to sort out a specific problem, he had the skills to do so and did so. Once that has been done the options were ultimately replacing MOL but he is not finished there yet. The company sucession plan involves moving to a different generation.

PB needed a new challenge and Easyjet came calling and he went with the thanks of MOL and Ryanair.

[Aso]

There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job BS... It has been a while since you left I guess..People with a permanent job are easier to get rid of then people on contract in the first 3 years...

Back on topic: even if MOL is right (and he is a billionaire because of his right choices so far) it is the appalling way he does things and his terrible contempt of PAX that makes him the last person people should want to work for...

ps the bases he wants to close are the ones that want to strike... How more obvious do you want to make it. :rolleyes:

[racedo]

ps the bases he wants to close are the ones that want to strike... How more obvious do you want to make it. :rolleyes:

Business want to close places with poor industrial relations.

Wow since when did that idea originate. Oh wait it has been done for last 100 plus years.

[BoeingLudo737]

So they are firing 900 people because of Brexit yet at the same time hiring an equal number of pilots who are paying for their jobs through cadet programs. Where is the union when you need them?

They are not hiring anyone as all courses have been cancelled

[Cyrano]

PB needed a new challenge and Easyjet came calling and he went with the thanks of MOL and Ryanair.

Perhaps those thanks were time-limited - it's reported (https://fora.ie/ryanair-hight-court-peter-bellew-4755191-Aug2019/) that Ryanair is now suing PB...

[BluSdUp]

Ironic.
I believe PB was hired by RYR after he took RYR to court when he ran Kerry Airport.
Mol was apparently so impressed with his performance that he offered him a job.

This just show how RYR is operated.
The madness!

[fr666andback]

There is no coincidence with timing. Strike in Portugal, RYR announcing base reductions... and the rumor FAO is going to serve as another example what happens when employees are organizing against the FR empire.... same all over again.