Teesside International Airport-1

[Cautious Optimist]

Teesside International Airport was relaunched this morning!

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/live-airports-new-name-confirmed-16639429

[skyman771]

I like the new logo, perhaps someone's doing something right at last.
It's all uphill from here though........................

[virginblue]

Quite an investment for a grand total of five daily scheduled flights to two destinations on average... Let's hope they can add to that not overly impressive list soon.

[SWBKCB]

Quite an investment

How much was spent?

[highwideandugly]

Only a couple of flights today for £40 million! Oh well...said before the money could have been better spent in the Teesside infrastructure. But if the mayor wants people to fly to Majorca once or twice a week..who are we to argue?

love the rebranding...happy memories!

[aeroDellboy]

Good to see Teesside coming back, now just need a few more flights :)

[mikkie4]

If they do fly to SEN WHO/WHAT airline do you think would / could be used?

[jensdad]

If they do fly to SEN WHO/WHAT airline do you think would / could be used?
I reckon Loganair would be the best fit. They've got a bit of a 'hub' developing at Southend.

[Asturias56]

Good to see Teesside coming back, now just need a few more flights :)


I think that's been the problem for about 30 years...................................

[763 jock]

Used to do MCO from Teeside on the 767 with Airtours. Went split load via GLA. Always popular.

[jensdad]

Used to do MCO from Teeside on the 767 with Airtours. Went split load via GLA. Always popular.
Yep, those passengers haven't gone anywhere. Still potential in the area.

[N707ZS]

Next day used to be Dominican Republic.

[jensdad]

Next day used to be Dominican Republic.
Absolutely right. Teesside had service to the Dominican Republic and Prague (to quote just two) before Newcastle did.

[Mike Tee]

SEN, MCO, GLA ? As a casual but genuinely interested reader I guess that the preceding are "abreviations" of destinations and that with my limited knowledge I guess that GLA could be Glasgow, which incidently only took me half a nano second to type out fully against typing GLA. Should I have a list of these abreviations available for quick reference or is there any chance that destinations can have their actual names typed out fully so that us who not so clued up can understand ?.

[skyman771]

Perhaps you should run yourself a list off internet. It's not difficult !!!

[toon22]

Used to do MCO from Teeside on the 767 with Airtours. Went split load via GLA. Always popular.
MCO. “Split load with Glasgow“ tells you all you need to know about why it no longer operates.

[DanAir89]

MCO. “Split load with Glasgow“ tells you all you need to know about why it no longer operates.
tee hee, I thought the same! While I wish the airport well in the past both Airtours and Thomson have IIRC taken a based aircraft from NCL to MME but it’s always ended up back at NCL (late 90’s early 00’s) which also says a lot too.

wonder if the Dom Rep is a route that the North East is crying out for as we’re (allegedly) a v poor region and the Dom rep is a beautiful but very poor country therefore #cheapholidays (based on my own experience of going there and the price paid for a v good hotel)

[davidjohnson6]

Perhaps Teesside to either Alicante in summer or Tenerife in winter might be a more attainable target than the Dominican Republic ?

The patient has been taken away from the source of injury but is still in intensive care. However much we may wish to dream, the patient remains in a fragile state and recovery is a long process

[DanAir89]

Perhaps Teesside to either Alicante in summer or Tenerife in winter might be a more attainable target than the Dominican Republic ?
north east - ncl or mme

[highwideandugly]

Oh well..Sunderland air show back next year..me thinks...biggg problems up the road!

[SWBKCB]

north east - ncl or mme

TUI are the only likely candidates and I'm sure they've served the Dominican Republic (which takes an awful lot more to type than PUJ) previously from NCL - replaced it with Cancun?

Also, remember that the business case based on which us taxpayers are supporting Teesside is to improve the regions connectivity to facilitate exports and inward investment, not to fund cheap holidays for Teessiders.

[davidjohnson6]

I imagine network carriers which would provide onward connectivity will not consider MME for new/increased service until they see perhaps 500,000 pax per year through the airport. This would show both substantial operational capacity and a desire for air travel from local residents (who are also the employees of exporters)

If MME wants flights that are *codeshared* with something in the Lufthansa, Norwegian or SAS groups, then maybe 10 short-haul leisure or migrant labour focussed routes need to come first.

[Cautious Optimist]

tee hee, I thought the same! While I wish the airport well in the past both Airtours and Thomson have IIRC taken a based aircraft from NCL to MME but it’s always ended up back at NCL (late 90’s early 00’s) which also says a lot too.
Airtours left because of a company restructure/downsizing and Thomson left because of the MME market becoming overcrowded (bmibaby / Ryanair / FlyGlobespan's first route to TFS), if it was the lack of demand hinted at then the bases would not have lasted anywhere near as long as they did.

[highwideandugly]

Sad to see aircraft diverting away from ncl not going to Teesside..in years gone by..it was a perfect diversion airport..obviously the airlines don’t think so now?

[Cautious Optimist]

Standard procedure where possible is to go to the nearest engineering base

[LiamNCL]

TUI's 787 operates from NCL 4x every 2 weeks with just the 2x on the alternative weeks , Thats a very good unchallenged long haul market they have here. They wont launch PUJ whilst they sell that many holidays to Cancun.

[SWBKCB]

Standard procedure where possible is to go to the nearest engineering base

Easyjet went to Leeds?

They wont launch PUJ whilst they sell that many holidays to Cancun.

Didn't Cancun replace PUJ at NCL?

If MME wants flights that are *codeshared* with something in the Lufthansa, Norwegian or SAS groups, then maybe 10 short-haul leisure or migrant labour focussed routes need to come first.

Norwegian? and who would be the code-share operator? Any hub operation would need to take on a heavily entrenched KLM.

[N707ZS]

Sounds like, got the old name back but not jet developed the will that used to be there in days of old. Lets hope some can be grown and the fight is brought back.

[Cautious Optimist]

SWBKCB engineering is in place at Leeds just not theirs

[jensdad]

SEN, MCO, GLA ? As a casual but genuinely interested reader I guess that the preceding are "abreviations" of destinations and that with my limited knowledge I guess that GLA could be Glasgow, which incidently only took me half a nano second to type out fully against typing GLA. Should I have a list of these abreviations available for quick reference or is there any chance that destinations can have their actual names typed out fully so that us who not so clued up can understand ?.
Well said, that man.

[jensdad]

MCO. “Split load with Glasgow“ tells you all you need to know about why it no longer operates.
Looking at it from the other end: Glasgow had a split load with Teesside, but still has service to the Dominican Republic!

[Mike Tee]

Perhaps you should run yourself a list off internet. It's not difficult !!!

Ok I see, you mean "It's not difficult" in the same sense as typing Glasgow is only a very tiny teeny weeny bit more difficult than typing GLA !!!!.

[Doctor Cruces]

If they do fly to SEN WHO/WHAT airline do you think would / could be used?

Stobart Air? They own Southend and are in partnership running MME.

[Doctor Cruces]

Perhaps Teesside to either Alicante in summer or Tenerife in winter might be a more attainable target than the Dominican Republic ?

The patient has been taken away from the source of injury but is still in intensive care. However much we may wish to dream, the patient remains in a fragile state and recovery is a long process

When I worked for British Midland at Tees Side in the mid seventies there were charters (on a schedule basis) to all over the place, Rimini, Teneriffe, Lanzarotte, Palma and a whole lot of the "usual suspects" for the bucket and spade market. As well as schedules to Heathrow, Amsterdam, Manchester, Cardiff, Bristiol, Norwich, Aberdeen and a few others lost to time.

Was kept very busy as a Traffic Officer every day.

[Doctor Cruces]

Sad to see aircraft diverting away from ncl not going to Teesside..in years gone by..it was a perfect diversion airport..obviously the airlines don’t think so now?

Probably not the infrastructure there now to support it as a major diversion for airlines. I remember one winter when Tees Side managed to get a clear-ish runway when our BD062 arrived back from Heathrow, the word went out REALLY quickly and from about1045 to well past midnight we were almost stacking them on top of each other and calling off duty staff in. Probably couldn't cope with that now.

[onion]

The lack of diversions is probably down to fire cover, as schedule/charter traffic returns this may mean more diversions from the likes of Easy/Ryan/Jet2 and others.

[P330]

Looks like Superbreak have gone under. Were we still getting their ad-hoc charters throughout the year?

[Robert-Ryan]

According to the movements website there would have been another Iceland in February

[SWBKCB]

At least Superbreaks appear to be ATOL/ABTA protected...

[Cautious Optimist]

Surprised no-one has picked up on this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49338849

[N707ZS]

All they will have left is the carpark to raze funds with. Lets hope they don't increase fees for GA and hangarage or we will see even less activity.

[VentureGo]

With a press launch of the re-naming ceremony to "Teesside International Airport", you would think a simultaneous launch of updating the website (still "Durham Tees Valley") would have been coordinated in a professional relaunch.
Durham Tees Valley Airport (http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.com/)

[tigertanaka]

Surprised no-one has picked up on this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49338849

Regarding the passenger levy, the mayor has his sums wrong.

140,000 pax a year is approximately 70,000 outbound (ie the ones who pay the passenger fee).

70,000 x £5 each (£6 less the VAT that goes to central government) equals £350k a year, not £900k.

[Robert-Ryan]

Whilst the 350k argument seems logical, I feel like what must be an entire team of accountants at the Mayors office isn't going to get it wrong? Either way the black hole argument stands

[tigertanaka]

Whilst the 350k argument seems logical, I feel like what must be an entire team of accountants at the Mayors office isn't going to get it wrong? Either way the black hole argument stands

That's what I thought at first. But when it was introduced in October 2010 the owners said it would raise £500k a year.
Passengers face £6 airport charge at Durham Tees Valley - The Journal (http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/passengers-face-6-airport-charge-4447853)

226k pax in 2010 so 113k outbound pax paying £5 each (£6 ex VAT) is £565k...

[highwideandugly]

Don’t forget children pay less!

[Robert-Ryan]

Must be a rolling 900k then since they took over the fee

[highwideandugly]

More questions than answers!

[skyman771]

As I see it, situations such as this only undermine the figures that support the viability of the project to purchase the airport in the first case.....

[highwideandugly]

Two. 2. Schedule departures today.lSunday.. sorry guys..am I missing something here?

the worst for 20 plus years? Any green shoots.....anyone..mr.mayor ?

[Robert-Ryan]

Not sure what you're getting at given it's the same level as we've had for many years now on a Sunday, unless you expected the Mayor to perform an overnight miracle despite his continued assertion that it will be a long term (i.e. years) fix.

[tigertanaka]

June CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 15,027 - up 16% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,568 - down 20%
Amsterdam: 11,026 - up 12%
Jersey: 740 - up 2%
Burgas: 1,716 (new)
Amsterdam shows year-on-year growth for the 21th month in succession, this was the best June on the route since 2004 and on a 12 month rolling basis, AMS is doing better than any point since 2008. Aberdeen still down and this route appears to be really struggling (although who knows what the yields are?). Jersey up slightly (and 74 pax per flight is a 95% load). Burgas looks like it has had an excellent start - 1,716 people over 5 weekends means a 95% load per flight (assuming 280 seats on an A320).

Rolling 12 month passengers: 142,945 - best since 2013.

[roblondon70]

[QUOTE=tigertanaka;10549056]June CAA stats:

assuming 1,280 seats on an A320

Talk about densification!

[tigertanaka]

[QUOTE=tigertanaka;10549056]June CAA stats:

assuming 1,280 seats on an A320

Talk about densification!

Whoops! I meant 280 seats - now corrected.

[N707ZS]

How does the Burgas flight prices compare to other local departure points.

[SWBKCB]

Whoops! I meant 280 seats - now corrected.

180?

When did the AMS switch to EMB's, and what's the seating difference to the Fk.70?

[tigertanaka]

180?

When did the AMS switch to EMB's, and what's the seating difference to the Fk.70?

Yes, my calculations were on 180 seats - brain fade today.

The Embraer change in late October 2017 put a lot of extra capacity on the AMS route. A Fokker 70 had 70 seats but there was a "middle seat vacant" policy which meant that KLM would normally only sell around 64 seats (this varied but 3 rows of business would be typical). An E175 has 88 seats which means over 25% more capacity than before.

To put recent traffic into context, June 2019 (E175) was 34% up on June 2017 (F70). Also 10,988 pax in June (and assuming 3 daily weekday, 2 daily weekends) is an average of 69 pax per flight so we are a bit away from getting a 4th daily flight or a move up to an E190..

[N707ZS]

The E190s have been appearing recently on the night stopping aircraft. Cannot see a 4th due to the Amsterdam restrictions. Now the local councillor is on side with the mayor they could do with re-starting the KLM cargo plan of the 80s.

[highwideandugly]

NZS...remind please that cargo plan?

[N707ZS]

Best I can find. The local councillor had her way this time.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/7077539.airport-scheme-brought-down/ (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/7077539.airport-scheme-brought-down/)

[mmeteesside]

Yes, my calculations were on 180 seats - brain fade today.

The Embraer change in late October 2017 put a lot of extra capacity on the AMS route. A Fokker 70 had 70 seats but there was a "middle seat vacant" policy which meant that KLM would normally only sell around 64 seats (this varied but 3 rows of business would be typical). An E175 has 88 seats which means over 25% more capacity than before.

To put recent traffic into context, June 2019 (E175) was 34% up on June 2017 (F70). Also 10,988 pax in June (and assuming 3 daily weekday, 2 daily weekends) is an average of 69 pax per flight so we are a bit away from getting a 4th daily flight or a move up to an E190..
Fokker 70s were 80 seats weren't they?

[tigertanaka]

July CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 12,922 - up 11% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,511 - down 17%
Amsterdam: 9,431 - up 4%
Jersey: 599 - up 1%
Burgas: 1,274 (new)

Amsterdam shows year-on-year growth for the 22nd month in succession, although passenger numbers were down on recent months due to KLM's annual service reduction during July & August. Aberdeen is again still well down although I am not sure how the movements compare versus last year. Jersey up slightly (and 75 pax per flight is a 96% load). Burgas still looks to be doing well - 1,274 passengers over 4 weekends means a 86% load per flight (assuming 180 seats on an A320).

Rolling 12 month passengers: 144,264 - highest since 2013.

[jensdad]

Good stats there. Jersey and Burgas show that if flights are provided to places that people want to go to, people will use them! I still reckon that the east end of Darlington alone could easily fill a weekly 737 to Alicante, but we'll see what happens over the next year or so.

[Robert-Ryan]

www.teessideinternational.com

[N707ZS]

The old website is still live and its advertising superbreaks.

[tigertanaka]

The old website is still live and its advertising superbreaks.

Yes, pretty poor they haven’t redirected the old URL to the new site.

[mmeman]

Hope I am wrong, but I would expect to see a reduction in the passenger numbers to Aberdeen after the introduction of the Loganair flights from Newcastle. Some fares from Newcastle, especially on Flybe/Eastern are down to £65, while they are still charging £243 one way from Teesside.

[Lancelot37]

" are still charging £243 one way from Teesside. "
Sounds like a good way to go out of businees. Compete or go under, unless you can offer something better than the opposition.

[N707ZS]

How much is the Eastern Newcastle to Aberdeen in comparison.

[Rottweiler22]

How much is the Eastern Newcastle to Aberdeen in comparison.

I checked last night and it was around the £66 mark, one-way. But I’m pretty sure Eastern have lowered their fares to compete with the £67 Loganair fare.

[Robert-Ryan]

Those two faced jocks at Loganair are launching two new routes from up the road

[P330]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/passenger-jet-diverted-teesside-airport-16889394

never heard of a diversion because no-one was available to start an engine....

[Robert-Ryan]

Doesn't make any sense? Clearly there's more to it and the press have jumped on what they've seen to be a juicy story

[P330]

Yes, I suspect there was a technical issue with the aircraft and they didn’t have the equipment or qualified personnel to deal with it at MME. In which case, sounds like a non-story...

The headline reads like it was a routine task and MME were short staffed...

[oldart]

Would not the APU on the KLM E190 start the engines on the ground?

[Robert-Ryan]

For the flight in question, I believe the fire service were activated, which wouldn't have happened if the decision to divert was made over the north sea

[Rottweiler22]

It could have been something as simple as the KLM plane in question having no serviceable APU, and MME’s Air Starter Unit (ASU) being inoperative.

Must have been a slow news day.

[Yellow Sun]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/passenger-jet-diverted-teesside-airport-16889394

never heard of a diversion because no-one was available to start an engine....


Gas turbine engines are usually started by a high pressure air powered starter motor. The air source may be internal (APU), external (Air Start Unit, e.g. Palouste), cross bleed air from another engine that has already been started by other means or older “exotic “ systems such as Avpin, cartridge or internal air bottles - Lightning, Canberra, Mk2 V Bombers.

What most methods have in common is a system for removing the air supply and disengaging the starter motor when the engine has reached self-sustaining speed. To achieve this an electrical solenoid will shut the start valve when this occurs. Should this solenoid fail it is possible to operate the start valve manually with an appropriate tool; box spanner on an extension bar. To carry out this procedure an engineer plugged in to external intercom is positioned by the engine to be started. At the point in the checklist when Start is selected the engineer is instructed to open the start valve and when the start is complete he closes the valve, secures the access panel and all proceeds as normal.

Clearly this his procedure requires that the ground personnel are qualified and trained which means having an engineer qualified on type. No suitably qualified engineer available then no capability to start the engines. I am not saying that this was the case here, but it seems highly likely as dispatching with an unserviceable air start valve is not unusual.

YS

[Lancelot37]

I wonder what the total diversion cost. Several thousand pounds I'd suspect including hire of several coaches a) to bring the landed pax at N'cle to Teessider and b) to take pax from Teesside to Ncle. Wasn't there a spare, certified, engineer, in Ncle who could have jumped in his car and been at the airport in less than 50 minutes? A saving of a massive amount of money and the service which the pax had paid good money for. Who does the final cost that day fall on? Teesside Airport of KLM?

[SWBKCB]

KLM's responsibility, surely?

[oldart]

KLM's responsibility, surely?
Or the agent who look's after KLM on the ground at MME.

[flybar]

Or the agent who look's after KLM on the ground at MME.

If the agent has failed to deliver the service they agreed to provide in their contract, then the cost must sit with them?

[tigertanaka]

August CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 12,284 - up 11% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,378 - down 15%
Amsterdam: 8,471 - down 5%
Jersey: 733 - up 41%
Burgas: 1,702 (new)

For the first time in nearly two years, Amsterdam shows a year-on-year decline, not helped by the KLM's annual service reduction during July & August (although I am not sure if there were fewer flights this year or not). Aberdeen is again still well down and shows no sign of improvement. Jersey up due to 5 departures in August compared to 4 last year but 73 pax per flight is strong on a 78 seater plane. Balkan Holidays should be pleased with Bourgas, 170 pax per flight looks good and is around a 95% load factor.

Rolling 12 month passengers: 145,461

[SWBKCB]

In response to the concerns, a spokeswoman for Highways England said: “We have no plans to change the signs at present - and we have not been approached about doing so.”


No plans to change road signs to Teesside Airport despite name change (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/no-plans-change-road-signs-17028804)

[SWBKCB]

The power of Pprune?? :DA spokeswoman for Highways England said: “Highways England is in discussions with Teesside Airport and the Tees Valley (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/teesvalley/) Combined Authority about the current signs which refer to the airport. “Because we would be replacing the current signs before their normal lifetime, we are working with the combined authority to take this work forward.”

Northern Echo - Highway bosses u-turn on Teesside Airport road signs (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17948367.highway-bosses-u-turn-teesside-airport-road-signs/)

[highwideandugly]

Number Crunching...

quiet thread again at the moment so thought I would take another look at the Bold proposals and promises made by the new incumbents ,regarding passenger numbers.After all it was broadly based on these that the mayor managed to get the local councils to part with circa £40 million pounds of tax payers money?

2017. 128,000. Airport low point regarding passenger figures.
2018. 140,000. Competition on Aberdeen routes helped.
2019. 145,000. Projected...Mainly due to the Balkan effect and excellent KLM performance
2020. 150,000 Again projected..Balkan plus new Palma series.Little growth on KLM. Due Aircraft type and slot restraints at Amsterdam.Huge competition at the moment on Aberdeen from Newcastle.
2021. Assuming an extended Palma season and if it does well..maybe an Alicante ? KLM and Eastern little change..gives another projected figure of..say. 155,000 tops?

and so to 2022.Owners projected figures are 1 million. I leave you all to do the maths..but a bit like Brexit..there is a little bit of uncertainty I would suggest how that figure will reached?

[SWBKCB]

and so to 2022.Owners projected figures are 1 million. I leave you all to do the maths..but a bit like Brexit..there is a little bit of uncertainty I would suggest how that figure will reached?

I think the '1 million by 2022' is a mis-quote in the Gazette. The official view seems to be 10 years to get to a million.

[highwideandugly]

Ahhh.the Gazette! That makes more sense! Still would need growth year on year of who knows..30% for 8 years?

A tall order without at least one major low cost carrier...trouble is they are few and far between now?

[oldart]

I seem to remember that 'W' patterns worked quite well for MME some time ago. In that respect would it offer a new selection of slots to use rather than a busier airport?

[Convair 440]

When does the Great North Air Ambulance Helicopter leave was past there new facility at Urlay Nook it looks about ready for them o move into

[Robert-Ryan]

December has been quoted in the past

[N707ZS]

The Arriva bus service from Darlington might have returned to the airport terminal today instead of stopping along the old entrance road.

[oldart]

The Arriva bus service from Darlington might have returned to the airport terminal today instead of stopping along the old entrance road.
There seems to be only four services that run direct from Darlington, late afternoon and evening.

[P330]

I suspect there is some press going on for the said bus service. An Arriva bus was airside this morning complete with camera crew.

[mmeman]

Some slight timing changes for the mid morning and evening flights to Aberdeen from next week - also Thu/Fri just 2 daily flights in each direction. Sunday returns to being split with Humberside, but on the ATR72.

Is Loganair flying from Newcastle having any impact here? Although looking at fares for tomorrow on Eastern from here, still £243 for each flight! Lower fares for the rest of the week.

[David Thompson]

I suspect there is some press going on for the said bus service. An Arriva bus was airside this morning complete with camera crew.
Here you go ; https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18013609.extension-bus-service-will-link-airport-darlington-hurworth/ .

[No-More-Bullschit]

So Stobart launching a double daily Southend route from Newcastle has got to be a joke right?

Bring back Peel anyone?!

[skyman771]

Here you go ; https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18013609.extension-bus-service-will-link-airport-darlington-hurworth/ .
Very interesting, though it is difficult to see as to how the No.12 bus will be of assistance, as suggested, to those travelling on business be it AMS, ABZ or where ever...........

[mmeman]

As mentioned above, should we be worried that as a Stobart run airport, Stobart Air decided to fly from another Stobart owned airport to Newcastle? I believe when Stobart were announced as the partner, the inference was that as they owned Southend Airport too, that could be a route that was possible. I am not saying it would ever have been a successful route but surely it does not really inspire confidence in the airport.

Or were Flybe starting the Newcastle route before Loganair did?

[highwideandugly]

Just shows how hard it’s going to be for the airport to attract any meaningful routes and services ?

Newcastle is an established airport with 5million plus passengers..TIA is ,yet again ,a relaunched airport in an area which needs so much help.Economically on the edge...

its probably a no brainier to most airlines..stick to the safe option? Airlines are a business and need to make money!


on another note...what is the latest with the Cobham's airport contract? Lots of talk earlier in the year re revised contracts..if they were to leave and take the £2 million plus annual contract (allegedly)with them,what would that do to the viability of the airport?


lots

[10 DME ARC]

Plus SEN-NCL is a Flybe/Virgin Connect route operated by Stobart. I am with HWAU the Cobham contract is a linch pin of the airport!

[Robert-Ryan]

The movements website has September's passenger figures, looks like a very good month, as per their comments: Amsterdam returned to form with a 10% increase, 15% increase in terminal pax, Jersey finished better than last year and even Aberdeen was ok although still down by 4%.

[Gunfighter52]

On for the first back to back increase in annual passenger figures since 2005/6. Granted it's not a huge achievement, but its progress nonetheless.

[tigertanaka]

September CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 14,372 - up 15% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,532 - down 4%
Amsterdam: 11,291 - up 10%
Jersey: 388 - down 22%
Burgas: 829 (new)
Bergamo: 332 (charter)

After the service reduction in August, Amsterdam bounces back with a healthy growth number and 11,291 passengers is the best month on MME-AMS since October 2005! Aberdeen was down again but not as much as we have seen in recent months and the numbers were actually more than in September 2017. Jersey down due to the calendar movement (3 flights in September this year compared to 4 last year) but for the summer overall JER was up 5%. Assuming the last flight to Burgas went back empty, 829 passengers is 166 per flight (around a 93% load factor). 332 passengers to Bergamo is 161 each way on a 170 seat plane so pretty good too!

Rolling 12 month passengers: 147,297

[Gunfighter52]

Both the morning and evening Amsterdam rotations were operated by an ERJ-190 today.

[N707ZS]

Weekend breaks in Amsterdam have always been popular, presume the ERJ-190 was through demand and not just lack of a smaller plane. See if they return Sunday or Monday.

[SWBKCB]

KLM Teesside to Amsterdam route passenger numbers increase (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18060486.klm-teesside-amsterdam-route-passenger-numbers-increase/)


A shy bairn said:

It has not even been 12 months since I bought our airport but we are already making significant progress with our 10-year rescue plan. Today’s announcement that we have some of the best passenger numbers the airport has seen in almost 15 years is proof that the plan is working.

[No-More-Bullschit]

The improvement in the routes performance began under Peel and there's nothing to suggest it has anything to do with the Mayor's takeover.

[highwideandugly]

great figures..11k plus......on KLM....not sure of capacity/seats offered but a quick approximation...gives around 78 per flight both ways...100% capacity...so over to you KLM...extra flight?

[mmeteesside]

great figures..11k plus......on KLM....not sure of capacity/seats offered but a quick approximation...gives around 78 per flight both ways...100% capacity...so over to you KLM...extra flight?

Works out at 73.3 per flight average, 88 seats gives 83.2% average load over the month (154 flights in total)

[P330]

I would suggest more E190s before an extra rotation unfortunately.

[tigertanaka]

I would suggest more E190s before an extra rotation unfortunately.


Yes, I think this is right looking at what KLM do from other similar sized UK airports.

In the last 12 months, MME-AMS has had around 118,000 pax on the route - 18 departures a week (typically 3x E175s each weekday plus 3 over the weekend). This is the same for the Winter and Summer timetables.
Humberside (127,000 pax in 2018) runs 19 departures a week during winter (all E175s) and 19 departures a week during summer (all E175s)
Cardiff (146,000 pax in 2018) also runs 19 flights a week during winter (normally 2x E175s a day and 1 x E190) and 20 departures a week during the summer (normally 2x E175s a day and 1 x E190)
Norwich (147,000 pax in 2018) runs 20 flights a week during winter (all E175s) and 25 flights a week during the summer (all E175s)

[P330]

Interesting stats...so based on that there are other bases ahead of us to upgauge or increase frequency.

Of course, we have no yield stats....

[PDXCWL45]

Interesting stats...so based on that there are other bases ahead of us to upgauge or increase frequency.

Of course, we have no yield stats....
I'd say that the loads would have to be consistently in the high 90s for them to consider it. Cardiff was like that for a while and now is getting more E190 flights. During the winter 6 of the 20 weekly departures will be E190s and in the summer 8 of the 20 weekly will be E190s except in July and August when it will be 1.

[virginblue]

Keep in mind that there are no more slots available at AMS. So adding a frequency would require axing one to another destination. So unless MME is a goldmine, it will be E90s instead of additional E75 flights.

[airhumberside]

Interesting stats...so based on that there are other bases ahead of us to upgauge or increase frequency.
As per the KLM timetable, one flight per day to HUY is upgauged to an E190 in April, May, June, September and October next year. (Also the frequency on HUY-AMS varies between 19 and 20xWeek throughout the year, with the 3rd Sunday frequency being the one that 'comes and go's'. HUY-AMS is currently 20xWeek, goes down to 19xWeek in January, back to 20xWeek sometime in February, then back down to 19xWeek when the E190 starts, then back up again to 20xWeek in July when the route goes back to all E175 for 2 months)

[Cautious Optimist]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/teesside-airshow-return-2020-after-17363790

Look what just hit the news!

[SWBKCB]

And Mr Houchen sought to allay any worries.The mayor said: “Eddie Stobart who appear to be in financial difficulty, are a completely separate and different company to Stobart Group who are our partners at Teesside Airport. “Stobart Group are doing very well as is our amazing airport, especially with the recent name change and the announcement of the return of the airshow next May.“We’re working closely with Stobart Group (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/live-updates-new-operator-teesside-15967207) on implementing our 10 year turnaround plan for the airport and getting new flights to new destinations. The future of our airport is strong and it is in safe hands.”

Comments on the Southend thread suggest that it might not be that straightforward as the Stobart Group have considerable funds tied up in Eddie Stobart

Teesside Airport update amid concerns over Eddie Stobart financial woes (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airport-update-amid-concerns-17377156)

[Beafer]

The agent has put a new advert on Rightmove to sell the hotel lease. Breakdown of the hotel earnings is shown.

Who actually owns the building? airport or a separate land owner like Peel?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-87335354.html

[Robert-Ryan]

It's always been external from the airport so not Peel, the airport have never recognised it as an airport hotel

[N707ZS]

Something to keep you busy with Beafer, it must have been sold off from the original RAF bought estate at some time, all the way back to the railway track. The Kerry Quin regime fenced the whole estate off to stop people parking for free and walking to the terminal.
Obviously totally pointless and nothing really to do with this thread.

[Beafer]

Something to keep you busy with Beafer, it must have been sold off from the original RAF bought estate at some time, all the way back to the railway track. The Kerry Quin regime fenced the whole estate off to stop people parking for free and walking to the terminal.
Obviously totally pointless and nothing really to do with this thread.

http://replygif.net/i/369.gif

[N707ZS]

As a final point. Why do you keep digging, what are you trying to prove....you said you were at rest now Peel was gone. Some may now be regretting it.

[Beafer]

In the latest edition of Now & Then magazine, there is a Teesside Airport article. It mentions the airport is looking for a new managing director, and lists what they would like in the new candidate. N70777zz might be interested ;)
Now and Then magazine (http://nowandthenmagazine.co.uk)

There is also a mention about the airport looking at building a new hotel, petrol station, and an aviation college. Great news just like the local election result :ok:

[oldart]

In the latest edition of Now & Then magazine, there is a Teesside Airport article. It mentions the airport is looking for a new managing director, and lists what they would like in the new candidate. N70777zz might be interested ;)
Now and Then magazine (http://nowandthenmagazine.co.uk)

There is also a mention about the airport looking at building a new hotel, petrol station, and an aviation college. Great news just like the local election result :ok:
However you still have the Labour Councils, building permission etc.

[N707ZS]

However you still have the Labour Councils, building permission etc.

They won't object, only Conservative councillor Doris Jones might object to building permissions.

[tigertanaka]

October CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 12,967 - up 4% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,555 - down 6%
Amsterdam: 11,190 - up 5%

Another good month on AMS, a slight drop from September but still the best October on the route since 2005. ABZ down again but the loss seems to have stabilized at around 5-6% down year-on-year.

Rolling 12 month passengers: 147,976

[N707ZS]

Southside development back on the cards but....
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/4400-jobs-plan-teesside-airport-17430626
Will the local Conservative parish councillor Doris Jones dare to object this time with the airport surrounded by territory of the new Conservative MPs and in the kingdom of Ben. Wonder if Peel fancies developing some land.

Finally found evidence of the previous failed attempt, just for the record.

In September 1999 Moorfield announced that it had received outline planning consent for the 167,224 sq. m. (1.8 million sq. ft.) first phase of the development opportunity at Teesside International Airport. The project is designed to provide a total of 327,158 sq. m. (3.5 million sq. ft.) of airport related development over 101 hectares (250 acres) of land within the boundary of the airport. Interest from both potential investors and occupiers remains strong but as with all sensitive developments progress will be governed by factors beyond the basic property issues.

[SWBKCB]

Is the planning restriction still in place which limits the level of non-aviation related development?

[N707ZS]

That will be an interesting question.

Does anyone know if there was any connection between Moorfield and Peel they seem to have come from the same area, job for Beafer.

[P330]

Could we finally get a freight village?

[N707ZS]

Development signed off within a week, now if only they could get some new routes as quick.

[Beafer]

Cobham sale approved by the government.
https://yournews.com/2019/12/21/1371659/britain-gives-advents-5-billion-cobham-takeover-the-green-light/

[highwideandugly]

Ryanair...to TIA? Massive cuts at Leeds and others..is this the one hoped for?

[SWBKCB]

Which others?

[inOban]

Prestwick, for one.

[highwideandugly]

And Newcastle ..more to follow..

[toledoashley]

Probably more a case of not as many aircraft as they thought they were going to have next summer.

[N707ZS]

Southend paid them and they produced the planes.

[Robert-Ryan]

Ryanair wouldn't be good for us

[LiamNCL]

And Newcastle ..more to follow..

Yeah 2x Routes lost to base closure and 1 half operated by sister airline Lauda.

[N707ZS]

Don't forget Ryanair and Stobart are already working together at Southend.

[N707ZS]

Must be due some announcement soon as the mayor is due for re-election in May. He has found the money to buy the place from Peel but other than that only a small charter season to Majorca is new and that hasn't been advertised so will it happen.

[highwideandugly]

At least he’s high profile...onto Steel now...

probably finding out that’s it’s not as easy as he promised/thought ?

plenty of time though before people start asking questions about if the money could have been better spent on the general infrastructure of Teesside?

Just seems a lot of money for a few thousand locals to go holiday,when roads,trains and buses might have been a better investment for the region as a whole?

[Beafer]

Accounts made up to March 2019. Signed off by directors 20th December 2019. Some new directors on the board.

Interesting accounts. Rail halt costs. Staff wages over £3.5 million a year for 81 staff. page 24. :bored: Assets valued at £55m. page 28.

Filing history. PDF shown 3rd January 2020. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

[jensdad]

Just a quick question... Is ATC back to 24h now? I've noticed that the IAS Medical King Airs come and go from your neck of the woods to mine at all times of the night.

[highwideandugly]

Interesting costs! I know ATC are paid much more than Newcastle ATC even though ,Newcastle handles nearly 5 million more passengers and at least twice? The movements?... Good negotiator there!!

I think the medical flights operate out of hours? No AFS. and someone puts the lights on/off..

[SWBKCB]

at least twice? The movements?

Think it might be a bit more than - Newcastle airport lists over 40 arrivals today and the Teesside website 4. Don't think private flights etc are that different between the two.

[onion]

Interesting costs! I know ATC are paid much more than Newcastle ATC even though ,Newcastle handles nearly 5 million more passengers and at least twice? The movements?... Good negotiator there!!

I think the medical flights operate out of hours? No AFS. and someone puts the lights on/off..

Are you sure as I know for definite that the NCL controllers were better paid hence why MME controllers moved up the road!
MME were one of the worst paid units in the country if you had full ratings across the disciplines.

[Cautious Optimist]

Controllers were getting their radar licences then going elsewhere as Onion says due to pay; so the controllers pay/benefits was increased somewhat to improve retention

[highwideandugly]

Seems to have worked as Teesside appear to be ok staffing wise and I believe attracting staff back from Newcastle? Meanwhile ATC up there seems to be in meltdown with new management? Heard up to 9 ATCOs departed in recent weeks..? Divs. Anyone!

[jensdad]

I think the medical flights operate out of hours? No AFS. and someone puts the lights on/off..

Ah right, that explains it :) Cheers hw&u.

[tigertanaka]

Accounts made up to March 2019. Signed off by directors 20th December 2019. Some new directors on the board.

Interesting accounts. Rail halt costs. Staff wages over £3.5 million a year for 81 staff. page 24. :bored: Assets valued at £55m. page 28.

Filing history. PDF shown 3rd January 2020. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

Of course the first thing to remember is that Peel were running the show for virtually all of this period. Secondly, there has been a big restatement of the 2017/18 accounts - I am not sure of the reason for this, it just says "Following a review by management, it has been determined that the financial statements for the year ended 31 March 2018 and earlier periods contained amounts which required subsequent amendment". As a result there are some quite significant movements in both the P&L and the Balance Sheet, compared to what was reported when the 2017/18 accounts were originally published.

But ignoring the one off items and the discontinued operations, we have an airport that had income of £7.1m in 2018/19 and running costs of £9.8m so ended up losing £2.7m (operating profit).

[Robert-Ryan]

I think the medical flights operate out of hours? No AFS. and someone puts the lights on/off..
This is true although ATC are being extended soon, not sure if it's by enough to cover IAS ops, whether it's for a reason or whether it's speculative to make us look more attractive to potential operators?

[oldart]

I think the medical flights operate out of hours? No AFS. and someone puts the lights on/off..
This might not be right, but I read somewhere that during the hours of darkness, the medical flights are able to operate the lights remotely, therefore no ATC required.

[Cautious Optimist]

IAS were the reason the DMs went 24hrs a couple of years back.

[highwideandugly]

Should the Teesside taxpayers be worried about the latest financial figures revealed in the Sunday Times?

Lots of bluster from the mayor..but it’s very slow progress attracting new business. Maybe the development of the south side might help the balance sheets..not sure aviation wise what it will bring though?

[SWBKCB]

The ST story is just what Beefer and in particular Tigertanaka have detailed above, and doubt whether Teesside tax-payers will be worried as the money for the airport came out of the regeneration fund provided by central Govt.

There will have to be more money spent on the southside before there is any possibility of a return

[SWBKCB]

Mr Houchen said the losses were "proof of delivery" on the pledge he made to scrap Peel's plan for housing. He said: "When I brought our airport back into public ownership, I made a commitment that not a single house would ever be built on our airport for as long as I am Mayor. I said very publicly that I would stop Peel’s plan to build 350 homes right outside the airport terminal on the car park, a decision the vast majority of local people backed.
He added: "The previous owners expected to get £5m for the 350 houses. "Once this is removed from the airport’s accounts, the performance of our airport is where we expected it to be at this stage in my 10-year rescue plan that people can view online". The accounting period represented "just six weeks" under the new owners, he added..'Teesside Airport's figures are where they should be': Mayor responds as £5m losses revealed (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airports-figures-should-be-17557079)

[Beafer]

Should the Teesside taxpayers be worried about the latest financial figures revealed in the Sunday Times?

Lots of bluster from the mayor..but it’s very slow progress attracting new business. Maybe the development of the south side might help the balance sheets..not sure aviation wise what it will bring though?

Agreed, it will take some form of development to help fund the airport.

[highwideandugly]

Interesting developments and announcements from LBA today? Now all they need to do is sort the weather out!

seriously...bit of a squeeze if it happens? Two major players within 60 miles north and south of TIA..excluding the Manchester effect and the promised new trains.
Going to be hard ?

[PintofDoom]

Its a very hard decision to make on what to do with MME, however, the best scenarios are to clear the site for full redevelopment. With the new plan for LBA and hopefully NCL planning some major works the need for MME is null. It sees more caravans than passengers and probably earns more revenue.

[onion]

Interesting highwide and Pintofdoom come on this thread and bash MME but dont comment on the LBA thread. Seriously guys/girls have you nothing better to do?
The development at LBA is good for them but will it take away the current core business? No.
Has LBA and NCL existed for the last god know how many years? Yes. Will it have an impact on future operations at MME, who's to know.
You both seem threatened by MME. What is the big issue?
Take yourselves to the LBA forum and congratulate LBA on their development.

[highwideandugly]

Onion ,sorry didn’t realise I was bashing..just stating a possible problem in the future to the development of the airport?

Leeds will always have that appalling weather record to hold them back..unlike TIA..

[flybar]

Onion ,sorry didn’t realise I was bashing..just stating a possible problem in the future to the development of the airport?

Leeds will always have that appalling weather record to hold them back..unlike TIA..

A great exaggeration as usual regarding the weather record at LBA .
it hasn't held them back. The number of flights cancelled/diverted due to the 'appalling weather record' is in year is negligible.
TIA supporters need to realise that its catchment area does not support the need for an 'international airport'

[PintofDoom]

The same could be said about LCY, BRS to a lesser extent ABZ who all suffer weather related diverts. MME does not have the capacity to handle even 4 737 loads that divert in and pax need ground transport back wherever.
The likes of DON is much better suites to this position.

MME has no viable future as a commercial airport, its a waste of tax payers money.

[Robert-Ryan]

Flybar and Pint of Doom are in for a shock

[P330]

I would guess they are Robert.

The mayor has delivered on everything so far, imo, and I anticipate it won’t be long before we hear about more routes.

i could be wrong of course.

Robert - you expecting an announcement anytime soon?

[onion]

Flybar the weather can be a problem but it's not the problem it was 20 years ago. Aircraft and technology have moved on.

Pintofdoom airports aren't just about passengers... by your original logic of saying MME is doomed by the new terminal plans at LBA it can be said that MME will be saved by the Southside plans! And LBA and NCL should give up competing in the freight and ancillary areas regarding an airport. Thus MME carves a nice domain for themselves and the two bigger neighbours may as well not bother to compete in those areas.

Your post sounds like you dont like the idea that the mayor is delivering on his promises!

[PintofDoom]

It makes a change that an elected pier is actually delivering a promise is the first surprise.

But the figures show that it will take a huge amount of money before the airport begins to turn around its losses and get back into the black. I just don't see it as long term viable. Why use tax money on an airport that needs major help when there are other currently viable options nearby, while letting the high street, local infrastructure, social housing ect go to rack and ruin.

I'll eat my hat and go vegan the day MME becomes the anchorage of europe.

[NorthSouth]

It makes a change that an elected pier is actually delivering a promiseAs opposed to a hereditary harbour you mean? :hmm:

[SWBKCB]

Asked how long until Teesside could expect a new UK route, Ms Willard told the committee the airport was in “relatively detailed discussions” with more than one airline about a regional connection (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/ben-houchen-slams-scaremongering-over-17565678) .

She added: “I think we will certainly be hoping to announce something in the next few months when it comes to regional connectivity. The regional piece is interesting - it’s getting the right plane to the right place at the right time and at the right level of frequency. The devil is really in the detail when it comes to regional connectivity.”

Teesside Airport bosses in 'detailed' talks with more than one airline over regional connection (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airport-bosses-detailed-talks-17589004)

[tigertanaka]

November CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 11,273 - down 1% v prior year

Aberdeen: 1,536 - up 3%
Amsterdam: 9,695 - down 1%

AMS down slightly (although this is all due to the way the calendar fell - one fewer weekday departure in 2019 v 2018). ABZ up for the first time in ages - still far short of the 3,051 people who flew the route in November 2017 when Loganair was competing. There is clearly demand for this route at the right price.

Rolling 12 month passengers: 147,643

[AirportPlanner1]

There is clearly demand for this route at the right price

Right price for who? All very well having ‘low’ prices to get punters through the door but clearly that’s not sustainable or there would still be 2 operators and 3k pax, better to have a service that lasts surely which is more sustainable for both parties.

[tigertanaka]

Right price for who? All very well having ‘low’ prices to get punters through the door but clearly that’s not sustainable or there would still be 2 operators and 3k pax, better to have a service that lasts surely which is more sustainable for both parties.

As demand is driven from the customer, the "right" price is clearly what they are happy to pay. If that is less than a supplier is willing to sell they product to the market, then that is a different matter. Eastern's prices on MME-ABZ are eye-watering compared to other domestic flights, which probably means it is a cash cow route, driven by a relatively small number of people who are not so price-sensitive (business funded travel by oil & gas sector companies).

Having two operators on such a thin route was unsustainable but the huge growth on the route driven by Loganair did show that there are plenty of people in the Teesside area what want to travel to North East Scotland (or vice versa).

[flybar]

Eastern's prices on MME-AMS are eye-watering compared to other domestic flights, which probably means it is a cash cow route, driven by a relatively small number of people who are not so price-sensitive (business funded travel by oil & gas sector companies).

When do Eastern fly from Teesside to Amsterdam?

[tigertanaka]

When do Eastern fly from Teesside to Amsterdam?

Amended - my fat fingers.

From the Cardiff forum, it looks like Eastern might be launching CWL-MME.

[SWBKCB]

The Mayor delivering on his promise! Looks like a good move by Eastern, reinforces MME-ABZ with the CWL passengers and they must be suffering on NCL-ABZ with LM upgauging flights.

[No-More-Bullschit]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here, the evidence is circumstantial at best

[PDXCWL45]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here, the evidence is circumstantial at best
Flybe set me an email that my flight from Cardiff to Aberdeen will go via Teesside instead of Newcastle as Eastern are ending the Cardiff to Newcastle route on the 10th February. Apart from sundays in the summer the weekday Cardiff to Newcastle flights have been taken off sale. Cardiff to Aberdeen is still onsale but with a fuel stop at MME. Whether they will put CWL-MME onsale only time will tell.

[onion]

The argument for the Aberdeen is that the passengers are there, but it's not sustainable with two operators. But if eastern were to use a larger aircraft themselves it maybe.
The question for Eastern would be high profit margin low revenue (j41) or low profit margin higher revenue (s2000/atr/embraer). That's Easterns commercial decision.
Obviously the airport wants the latter. Eastern may not.
could all change re the Cardiff rumour!

[N707ZS]

Eastern run a number of routes from Humberside to Teesside then Aberdeen but have never actually sold the route between Humberside and Teesside so it might be the same with Cardiff.

[PintofDoom]

This is all down to poor performance on the ncl-cwl and a sheer lack of available aircraft. Wasting money sending the saab or 145 from huy via mme to abz while an aircraft gets wasted at ncl. The 41s have had their day with more getting wfu than in service and very few available to supply the parts required, added to the number of engineers they laid off and couldn't recover.

[mmeman]

Flybe website confirms that the mid morning Aberdeen flights have all changed to lunchtime, which seems to confirm the CWL-MME-ABZ and return, as same times as Newcastle is now? But unable to book MME-CWL as yet.

Eastern NCl- ABZ down to 1 flight a day in the afternoon.

[onion]

Press conference tomorrow or Monday..... possibly!

[mmeteesside]

Story out this morning of new routes to Dublin and Belfast plus four more to be announced at 0900. Cardiff presumably among them.

[SWBKCB]

Bit of an odd announcement, new routes and airline partner without mentioning what and who, but brilliant news for the airport and good work.

Nice timing as well, same week as the Mayor's major election rival launched her campaign.... :ok:


'Major milestone' for Teesside Airport as daily Dublin and Belfast flights announced (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18183304.major-milestone-teesside-airport-daily-dublin-belfast-flights-announced/)

[onion]

Teesside-Cardiff on sale now.

[mmeman]

Cardiff now bookable at flybe.. and at £443 return,I can imagine it will be a very successful route,....

Eastern Saab turning up at 8.45 - is that related to the announcement? (credit Teesside Movements)

[onion]

Cardiff now bookable at flybe.. and at £443 return,I can imagine it will be a very successful route,....

Eastern Saab turning up at 8.45 - is that related to the announcement? (credit Teesside Movements)

That's the all in price, expect the cheaper tickets to start appearing.
The Saab appears to be positioning in to operate the Aberdeen.

[GrahamK]

Better tell FlyBe the name of the airport has changed :8

[N707ZS]

Will be interesting to see if Loganair use there own aircraft or contract in NYXAir.

[P330]

So, Belfast, Dublin, Cardiff, Isle of Man, Southampton and London City. All operated by Eastern Airways.

According to DTV Movements.

[fjencl]

So, Belfast, Dublin, Cardiff, Isle of Man, Southampton and London City. All operated by Eastern Airways.

According to DTV Movements.
Will be interesting to see what aircraft type will be operating on the routes, surely it won't be the j41 aircraft .

[SWBKCB]

Looking at the Gazettes updates, all the references are to Eastern operating the flights - no mention of Flybe?

[SWBKCB]

More detail from the Gazette:

The new routes will roll out from next month and, after almost a decade, will see the return of flights to Dublin in time for St Patrick’s Day, starting at £69.99. There will also be daily direct connections to Belfast City Airport, Cardiff and Southampton. From May 30 this year, passengers will also be able to fly to the Isle of Man on a seasonal service.

This announcement, which includes 37 new flights per week, will add 185,000 seats each year, more than doubling the number of available seats. To help ensure reliability, an engineering base will be created at the airport to serve the aircraft operating the new Eastern Airways routes. Tickets will be available to buy in the coming days.

[SWBKCB]

Aberdeen Existing Service – revised 10 February

Cardiff – Monday 10 February

Belfast – Monday 9 March

Dublin – Monday 9 March

Southampton – Monday 9 March

London City – Monday 27 April

Isle of Man – Saturday 30 May

Presumably Belfast, Dublin, Southhampton will be done by a single based unit, similar to how CAX works. CWL, ABZ on the current J.41 as per existing NCL?

[mmeteesside]

Presumably Belfast, Dublin, Southhampton will be done by a single based unit, similar to how CAX works. CWL, ABZ on the current J.41 as per existing NCL?

Sounds like it, three based aircraft in the announcement but that will include the current J41 for Aberdeen, the mid day Aberdeen now being operated by Cardiff - which rotates their aircraft through Aberdeen to swap it. Two Saab’s based here for the rest?

[SWBKCB]

Better tell FlyBe the name of the airport has changed :8

Looking at the other threads that mention the new routes, it seems to have been changed to Teeside... :=

[Robert-Ryan]

the need for MME is null. It sees more caravans than passengers and probably earns more revenue.

MME has no viable future as a commercial airport, its a waste of tax payers money.

TIA supporters need to realise that its catchment area does not support the need for an 'international airport'

Flybar and Pint of Doom are in for a shock
I hate to say I told you so...actually no I don't...I love to!

[jensdad]

Great news that you can now get from the NE to IoM without a shlep over to Liverpool or Heysham :) . It's been a big miss (well, for me anyway) since Citywing packed in.

[VickersVicount]

how many of these routes will still be operating in 12 months time?

[SWBKCB]

I hate to say I told you so...actually no I don't...I love to!

Well, it'll be a case of use it our lose it. Lets be honest, this is a step change for Eastern compared to their recent performance.

Wonder if the LCY will be like the recent NCL operation and tie in with the ABZ flights?

[Be a good chap]

Cracking set of additions for the airport!

Hopefully the routes can be fully utilised and more sun routes added soon!

[P330]

Awesome news.

Do we know what frequency each of the new routes will run and timings yet?

Coincidentally, flew through the airport today and it was great to see such a buzz!

[SWBKCB]

Not seen details of timings but daily for DUB, BHD, SOU, CWL, twice daily for LCY have been mentioned.

[BA318]

Awesome news.

Do we know what frequency each of the new routes will run and timings yet?

Coincidentally, flew through the airport today and it was great to see such a buzz!

Cardiff - starts 10 February 2020 - 5x weekly flights
Belfast City - 9 March - 6x weekly
Dublin - 9 March - 6x weekly
Southampton - 9 March - up to 2x daily
London City - 27 April - up to 2x daily
Isle of Man - 30 May - seasonal

According to @SeanM1997 on twitter.

[davidjohnson6]

That's a lot of new flights per week for the airport. Is there really market demand for them all to be profitable ?

That said, I can see where airport management are coming from - they are in a position of either go large or go home. They have maybe 2 years to show MME can be a useful asset to the region as a busy commercial airport and be perceived as such by the voters in the region... or the airport gets sold off and converted to houses

Time to raid the reserves, gamble everything on red, and have one last spin of the roulette wheel...

[Cautious Optimist]

Of the routes announced, demand across most should be such that if marketing and fares were poor it would almost make no difference, luckily if Eastern can practice what they preached today then we are in good hands. Cardiff and Isle of Man and possibly Southampton too might need that bit extra TLC, but there's no reason why they can't work and work well IF they are given the time to do so.

[SWBKCB]

There's been mention of a three year partnership with Eastern. Price and reliability will be key - not previuosly strong points for Eastern. If they get this right DUB and BHD look like no-brainers, LCY still looks brave in competiton with the train (but could offer good onward connection opportunities), CWL is a transfer of an existing service and IOM looks like a summer fill in.

SOU is a surprise, especially if it is twice daily as suggested above. Has SOU ever been served from MME?

[Cautious Optimist]

Has SOU ever been served from MME?
Yeah...by Eastern no less! November 2010 through September 2011. It is thought that their high fares coupled with the aircraft sat idle for too long during an era when you had to be airborne to be profitable were factors in the route being axed, both of which have been mitigated this time around. It is also worth noting that out of Eastern's previous expansions, which include Bristol and Brussels, Southampton was the most successful and longest lasting of the three. If they do get the fares right like they say they are, then another crack at Bristol must be a no brainer given the EE connection.

[P330]

Yes, Eastern served Southampton before; once or twice daily. It was at a time when they were trying new things such as Brussels. Neither lasted long...hopefully with volume, bigger aircraft and more realiability, it could be different this time.

[SWBKCB]

Cheers - don't remember that! So not the shot in the dark I was thinking of.

Mind you, the new route doesn't seem to have been noticed by SOU yet....

[Sharklet_321]

I really hope to god that Eastern have learned their lesson and will deploy bigger aircraft in order to get lower average fares. It could work if the aircraft used are ATR-72's or Q400's

[BA318]

Eastern tried LCY-NCL twice and failed. Both had poor service with frequent delays and cancellations so lets see if this is any better.

[Expressflight]

Congratulations to all the team at MME for acquiring these new routes. I well remember when SEN was struggling to attract operators/routes pre-EZY and it's great when you achieve something like this.

I wonder if there will be any useful through bookable connecting flights via some of these new destinations: that might help to make them more viable.

[flybar]

Looking at the other threads that mention the new routes, it seems to have been changed to Teeside... :=

According to their website they fly from 'Durham Tees Valley'

[rhutch28]

Anyone any idea what aircraft they will be using for the new routes, will it be the Jetstream 41 and the Saab 2000??

[SWBKCB]

Couple of additional snippets from the Eastern website:

A network of Flybe franchise routes

No mention of the 'F' word at todays announcement

Flights to London City and Southampton will be twice daily, Dublin and Belfast City six times a week, Cardiff five times a week and the Isle of Man for the seasonal TT race weeks.

Does this mean IOM just for the TT weeks??

Airline to develop major network from Teesside International (https://www.easternairways.com/news/66/airline-to-develop-major-network-from-teesside-international)

[Atlantic Explorer]

Knowing how Eastern work, I expect they will be paying very little to the airport for operating out of there. I will be certain a very large sweetener has been offered by TIA for them to come in and operate the routes there.

Unfortunately, given the state of the Fleet and reliability, I can’t see them making much of a success with these routes and it will gradually falter over time. Unless of course a re-Fleet is on the cards?

[tigertanaka]

According to today's announcement, flight times are approx:

MME>LCY: 07:45-09:00
LCY>MME: 19:45-21:00

Not sure when the reverse flights will take place but these seem pretty good for a work day in London.

Surprised that Tony Burgess, the MD of Eastern, didn't seem to know that Dublin offered US pre-clearance.


Does this mean IOM just for the TT weeks??


It sounded very much like it to me.

[mmeteesside]

Great news and a good kick start with a business orientated network. Still room for more if they prove popular I'm sure with each aircraft only doing three flights a day there's still going to be space in the schedule.

[N707ZS]

Agree with mmeteesside great news on the new routes, but sorry, slight concern they haven't attracted an additional operator.

[bigjim99]

Anyone any idea what aircraft they will be using for the new routes, will it be the Jetstream 41 and the Saab 2000??

3x E190s are on order and the E170 is due back. Not sure if they'll be allocated to MME though...

[VickersVicount]

Which of these MME routes would warrant a E190?

[VickersVicount]

more sun routes added soon!
Not sure launch of a few short haul Eastern routes translate to launch of 'sun routes' ?

[PDXCWL45]

3x E190s are on order and the E170 is due back. Not sure if they'll be allocated to MME though...
Pretty sure that they stated in an article that they'll be for ACMI work. Probably with LCY as a target.

[Albert Hall]

I don't think Eastern will be going anywhere near LCY on an ACMI after last time's fiasco.

The schedule bounces about before settling down with 2 x J41 and 1 x S20 based at MME when everything is running by the end of May.

Saab 2000 on 2 x LCY and 1 x DUB
J41 on 2 x SOU, 1 x ABZ
J41 on 2 x ABZ, 1 x CWL, 1 x BHD

There's no statement on when flights will go on sale or where. Mention of Flybe was very much absent from yesterday's announcement and I can't tell if Eastern is playing down the Flybe element or Flybe is distancing itself from Eastern. Or possibly both!!!

[onion]

Albert have you got a link to where all that info is?
Just all articles yesterday pointed to 37 extra flights and adding of 185,000 seats which doesn't add up if you only base 1 S2000 and two J41.
Otherwise they are trying to include the Aberdeen in the added 185,000.

[Expressflight]

onion

What's your calculation then as to the annual capacity increase on offer? I make it about 163,000 per annum excluding IOM.

[onion]

onion

What's your calculation then as to the annual capacity increase on offer? I make it about 163,000 per annum excluding IOM.

I'm just saying the numbers dont add up!
But a s2000 3 rotation a day 6 days a week gives around 93,000 extra seats so on that rough basis you'd need two S2000 based to add an extra 185,000.
Very rough calculation.
Which is why I asked for a link if possible.

[Alteagod]

It would not surprise me if the IOM sector ends up as MME-IOM-BHD-IOM-MME as the routes bed down.

[Albert Hall]

I make it about 146,000 new seats per year - it's certainly not 180,000 unless you count in Aberdeen.

London City 10 weekly flights x 50 seats x 52 weeks = 52,000
Southampton 10 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 30,160
Dublin 6 weekly flights x 50 seats x 52 weeks = 31,200
Belfast 6 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 18,096
Cardiff 5 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 15,080
Adds up to 37 new weekly flights (as announced) but 146,536 seats before allowing for any reductions in holidays / quiet months.

[fjencl]

As the saab 2000 only hold a maximum of 50 seats, surely if the flights to LCY or dublin work well due to the flight schedule times then surely they will have to up the aircraft size to
perhaps the 170 or 190, Who knows, time will tell.

[fjencl]

Pretty sure that they stated in an article that they'll be for ACMI work. Probably with LCY as a target.


Roger Hage, Eastern Airways’ General Manager Commercial and Operations, said: “We are pleased to see the return of the E-Jets to our fleet giving us an entry into new ad-hoc charter and ACMI markets, alongside an option to evolve our scheduled service network, especially as we expand this fleet through the year.”

[AndrewH52]

I make it about 146,000 new seats per year - it's certainly not 180,000 unless you count in Aberdeen.

London City 10 weekly flights x 50 seats x 52 weeks = 52,000
Southampton 10 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 30,160
Dublin 6 weekly flights x 50 seats x 52 weeks = 31,200
Belfast 6 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 18,096
Cardiff 5 weekly flights x 29 seats x 52 weeks = 15,080
Adds up to 37 new weekly flights (as announced) but 146,536 seats before allowing for any reductions in holidays / quiet months.

Are none of your passengers making a return trip? Looks more like 280k seats...

[fanrailuk]

Roger Hage, Eastern Airways’ General Manager Commercial and Operations, said: “We are pleased to see the return of the E-Jets to our fleet giving us an entry into new ad-hoc charter and ACMI markets, alongside an option to evolve our scheduled service network, especially as we expand this fleet through the year.”

I’ve absolutely no doubt they’ll be after the Airbus contract (CEG-BRS-TLS) for their Ejets - which Loganair currently operate after Flybmi’s demise...

[N707ZS]

As the saab 2000 only hold a maximum of 50 seats, surely if the flights to LCY or dublin work well due to the flight schedule times then surely they will have to up the aircraft size to
perhaps the 170 or 190, Who knows, time will tell.
As it stand now we get all four aircraft types on the current Aberdeen run.

Eastern might as well just move completely to Teesside plenty of office and hangar space for maintenance.

[Albert Hall]

Are none of your passengers making a return trip? Looks more like 280k seats...

If you do the maths yourself, you will find that those are two-way seats. 73,000 departing Teesside and the same number coming back.

[Robert-Ryan]

A lot of these calculations seem to be based on 2x J41 and a Saab, but I think it's going to be 2x Saab and one J41. Could be wrong mind.

[PintofDoom]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/739x1600/img_20200124_wa0003_707a944be4513ddd45d596882f440692e5a955f1 .jpg
I got sent this, gives a full idea to the planned operation.

[PDXCWL45]

The Cardiff times are interesting as it means that the aircraft will sit on the ground for 2 and a half hours at Cardiff after the returning from Anglesey. It usually departs for NCL at 10.20 and will depart for my flight to ABZ in March at 10.20 as well.
It also looks like CWL may lose Aberdeen. Again!

[PintofDoom]

I wouldn't be surprised, there isnt a huge demand for the route, people would be better transiting via AMS to go to ABZ.

[caaardiff]

I'm a little confused with the above timetable. I'm guessing it's only specific for the aircraft based at, or running through MME. From what I can work out regarding CWL the top half schedule:
From 10th Feb: 2x J41's per day, one based at MME which ends its day at CWL and one based at CWL which ends its day at MME.
From 4th Mar: 2x J41's per day operating the same way as above & ER4 operating the new MME routes.
From 27th Apr: 2x J41's per day both based at MME & the ER4. CWL see's ABZ-MME-CWL in AM but only CWL-MME in PM, no connection or onward to ABZ. This however isn't reflected by what's on sale on Flybe's website which is as per prior to 27th Apr change. (When doing a dummy booking in May)
Lastly, and a topic probably more suited to the CWL thread but worth noting regarding what T3 are planning, the CWL-VLY PSO service isn't shown on this timetable. Assuming they are either pulling the plug or continuing to base an aircraft at CWL and not use it for the MME services, which seems poor aircraft utilisation having sat around all day again.

[Letsflycwl]

I'm a little confused with the above timetable. I'm guessing it's only specific for the aircraft based at, or running through MME. From what I can work out regarding CWL the top half schedule:
From 10th Feb: 2x J41's per day, one based at MME which ends its day at CWL and one based at CWL which ends its day at MME.
From 4th Mar: 2x J41's per day operating the same way as above & ER4 operating the new MME routes.
From 27th Apr: 2x J41's per day both based at MME & the ER4. CWL see's ABZ-MME-CWL in AM but only CWL-MME in PM, no connection or onward to ABZ. This however isn't reflected by what's on sale on Flybe's website which is as per prior to 27th Apr change. (When doing a dummy booking in May)
Lastly, and a topic probably more suited to the CWL thread but worth noting regarding what T3 are planning, the CWL-VLY PSO service isn't shown on this timetable. Assuming they are either pulling the plug or continuing to base an aircraft at CWL and not use it for the MME services, which seems poor aircraft utilisation having sat around all day again.

Eastern have a 4 year contract with the Welsh Government to operate the CWL-VLY sector x2 daily and they have a based J41 for this route. I cannot see them pulling this at all for this reason.

[highwideandugly]

It’s not the messiah...it’s a very dodgy airline! Sorry MP.

Pulled to shreds over the last couple of years on this and other threads..!

At least Eastern are giving TIA a go....who knows where it will end..but it’s up to the Teesside public to back these routes as per
the outcry for more routes and a viable airport.

Is it a vanity project..or has the mayor judged the groundswell of opinion just right?

[caaardiff]

Flybe gained funding from CWL and DSA for project Blackbird despite CWL being owned by the Welsh Government. I wonder if Eastern have been given a similar deal on a smaller financial scale to get these routes going?

[BAladdy]

I hope that after the announcement if T3’s new routes that MME are looking to secure a more regular public transport service to either Darlington or Durham.

[PintofDoom]

Lets see how it takes before they mess this up. Glasgow barely lasted 3 months.

And Eastern have been trying to get rid of the Saab2000s since the start of 2019. And the J41s days are numbered, unless the plan to buy back the 41s that they sold to Easyfly and Yeti airlines.

The Ejets are planned to go into operation for BACF again, although T3 could bid for the Airbus contract again, however, they need to improve and apologise to Airbus for the poor operation of the contract last time.

[BAladdy]

The Ejets are planned to go into operation for BACF again
What is your source of this info?