Teesside International Airport-1

[STN Ramp Rat]

Stobart Group investor news.
https://news.sky.com/story/struggling-haulier-eddie-stobart-braces-for-lender-showdown-11831017

the story is dated October 2019

[Beafer]

4th Sept 2020 update on Stobart Group.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/britains-stobart-in-talks-to-sell-stake-in-stobart-air-2020-09-04Sept

(Reuters) - British aviation and energy infrastructure group Stobart STOB.L said on Friday it was in early-stage discussions for the potential sale of its stake in regional airline Stobart Air and its leasing firm Propius.

The company, which bought back Stobart Air and Propius in April from the administrators of Connect Airways, said aircraft lessor Falko Regional Aircraft Ltd was one of the interested parties.

The news was first reported (https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/cityjet-owner-falko-in-talks-to-acquire-stobart-air-39502051.html) by the Irish Independent, which said on Friday the acquisition could be worth more than 20 million euros ($24 million) and that Falko could assume some of Stobart Group's liabilities that are linked to Stobart Air.

Stobart, which owns and operates London Southend Airport, sold Stobart Air in 2019 to Connect Airways, the owner of the collapsed regional airline Flybe that became one of the first big corporate casualties of the coronavirus outbreak.

[SWBKCB]

Has Beefer got a new obsession? Thought he'd be looking closer to home.

is Stobarts involvement at MME still minimal?

[southside bobby]

Might I be alone in thinking The Mayor" has eyes on a larger prize in the big house on the banks of the Thames.

There is a Mayor in Birmingham also noting the footsteps of a previous Mayor of London & look how that has ended.

[N707ZS]

SWBKCB we all know what he's like with his OCD. Believe Stobarts involvement is all that was written in the contract nothing more or less.

[SWBKCB]

Believe Stobarts involvement is all that was written in the contract nothing more or less.

And do we know what that is?

[LGS6753]

Reported by UK Aviation News:

Balkan will operate two flights per week between MME and Bourgas on Sun/Thurs from 23rd May to 19th September 2021.
Also, Alba Star will operate weekly to Palma from 25th July to 19th September 2021.

[tigertanaka]

August CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 2,529 - down 79% v prior year (by comparison, July was 1,429)

Aberdeen: 369 (-73% v Aug 2019)
Amsterdam: 1,053 (-88% v Aug 2019)
Belfast City: 368
London City: 107
Newquay: 630

I reckon this makes the loads on the flights in August as follows:

Aberdeen: 8.8 pax per flight (6.3 in July)
Amsterdam: 21.9
Belfast City: 9.7 (10.4 in July)
London City: 4.1 (5.8 in July)
Newquay: 28.7 (17.1 in July)

Clear why LCY was dropped like a stone when the slots at LHR came up. NQY has done fantastically well considering it was only launched on 4 June.

I went to NQY this week, was really impressed with Eastern although lack of both online check-in and seat selection will not impress business passengers who have to physically check in at LHR. Maybe this is a barrier to Eastern securing some codeshares on the route?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Blimey, that’s pretty sobering figures! Obviously not a specific issue to MME, but still very poor. Can’t see any of those flights making money.

[AirportPlanner1]

LCY was just over 3 pax per flight I work out? 17 returns in the month. The July figure was only as ‘high’ as it was because of the MP freebies on the launch and carrying the Boro team to and from Millwall

[P330]

Another 737-700 en route for Willis. Looks to be a Fiji Airways aircraft and is currently flying in from Bangor, Maine. Originating in Fiji, it has stopped in both Hawaii and Los Angeles.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/dq-fjf

[GrahamK]

KLM reduce to 4 weekly for winter

[P330]

KLM reduce to 4 weekly for winter

Booking tool reverts to 3 x daily from January, but as you describe until then.

This in itself is a change from a couple of weeks ago which showed 2 x daily from Jan back then.

[mmeman]

https://www.aero-mag.com/cobham-aviation-signs-long-term-deal-in-teeside-to-support-mod-contract/

Really good news about Cobham signing a new long term deal with the MOD keeping them at Teesside.

[SWBKCB]

Anybody know what the contract referred to is? Can't find any reference to it other than in Teesside's press release, which is now been picked up/copied by sites such as the above?

https://www.teessideinternational.com/cobham-aviation-confirms-long-term-future-at-teesside-airport/

[David Thompson]

https://www.aero-mag.com/cobham-aviation-signs-long-term-deal-in-teeside-to-support-mod-contract/
Really good news about Cobham signing a new long term deal with the MOD keeping them at Teesside.
Spike Jepson former boss of The Red Arrows and just one of several former 'Reds' who have flown for Cobham .

[mmeman]

Not sure if it is a glitch on the website, but KLM unavailable to book from 7th October until 23rd November.

[MissChief]

Why all the postings about Middleton St. George/Teesside? It is such a small airport, after all. Perhaps you folk are enthusiastic about having an airport near you. Fair enough, enjoy.

[P330]

Not sure if it is a glitch on the website, but KLM unavailable to book from 7th October until 23rd November.

I can see the same. Suspect it isn’t a glitch, what small international demand there is, well, it’s pretty much evaporating and can be absorbed through Newcastle. Maybe even the LHR is having an impact.

I haven’t been able to get abroad with work since Jan and it’s killing me. At the same time, not sure I want to be going anyway either...a weird feeling.

[toon22]

Why all the postings about Middleton St. George/Teesside? It is such a small airport, after all. Perhaps you folk are enthusiastic about having an airport near you. Fair enough, enjoy.
The Teesside thread is one of the best at present. Posters are well-informed, enthusiastic and overwhelmingly positive. This is backed up by the local mayor who believes in the economic benefits that air travel can bring. I’m sure those in the catchments of Humberside, Norwich and Leeds - and others, must wish their threads were as active, despite the dreadful times in which we live.

[mmeman]

Not looking good for Amsterdam, no flights till January 2021 now and I guess that might be reviewed closer to the time. Inverness also seems to lose their KLM flights, apart from a few around Christmas - Newcastle at one point did have the KLM evening flight that was coming here from the winter timetable, but that seems to have gone too, so just the 2 flights a day from Newcastle, and 1 a day from Leeds. :{

[SWBKCB]

Cobham sold to american company Draken International

[GrahamK]

Not looking good for Amsterdam, no flights till January 2021 now and I guess that might be reviewed closer to the time. Inverness also seems to lose their KLM flights, apart from a few around Christmas - Newcastle at one point did have the KLM evening flight that was coming here from the winter timetable, but that seems to have gone too, so just the 2 flights a day from Newcastle, and 1 a day from Leeds. :{
NCL seems to be 3 x daily in December, 2 x 738, 1 x 73G, with the late afternoon/evening flight reinstated

[LBIA]

LBA-AMS back to 2x daily E190 from November 23rd and 3x daily from January.
Also Jet2 on the route with 4x weekly B738 from October 22nd, increases to 8x weekly November 2nd (using mix of B733/B738)

[highwideandugly]

Wonder if the Heathrow service is now eating away at the long established KLM route? Not the outcome the mayor wanted?
It’s a small market now everywhere..and getting smaller by the day?

[P330]

Wonder if the Heathrow service is now eating away at the long established KLM route? Not the outcome the mayor wanted?
It’s a small market now everywhere..and getting smaller by the day?

One thing is certain is it can’t be helping. How much of an impact is up for debate. Will be interesting to see the LHR stats for Sep.

[SWBKCB]

I would imagine that most of the money on the AMS route is generated by Star Alliance members, so maybe not that big effect while there is no alliance tie up for the LHR route.

Mind you, difficult times so as others have said, can't help to split a small market.

[tigertanaka]

I would imagine that most of the money on the AMS route is generated by Star Alliance members, so maybe not that big effect while there is no alliance tie up for the LHR route.

Mind you, difficult times so as others have said, can't help to split a small market.

Or even Skyteam members ;). But I think you are correct, future bookings for 2020 must be dire and I guess KLM know that if Teessiders need to travel for work, there are no alternative operators at MME and LBA/NCL have alternative KLM services.

[SWBKCB]

Or even Skyteam members https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Knew I should have checked.... :ok:

[GrahamK]

Wonder if the Heathrow service is now eating away at the long established KLM route? Not the outcome the mayor wanted?
It’s a small market now everywhere..and getting smaller by the day?
8 pax on LHR-MME today according to Social Media

[P330]

8 pax on LHR-MME today according to Social Media

Genuinely torn...one chuffed that someone is giving the route a go but can’t believe we don’t pause all this, and save the public purse, until the market recovers.

[GrahamK]

Genuinely torn...one chuffed that someone is giving the route a go but can’t believe we don’t pause all this, and save the public purse, until the market recovers.
I suspect the problem is, when the market recovers, the slots won't be. Caught Between a rock and a hard place.

[highwideandugly]

Worry is...Eastern eat away at very small markets,using the mayors purse.
KLM decide ..hey! That’s it guys..going to concentrate on the bigger markets?..We live in strange times.

[oldart]

Worry is...Eastern eat away at very small markets,using the mayors purse.
KLM decide ..hey! That’s it guys..going to concentrate on the bigger markets?..We live in strange times.

I thought that KLM had done a five year deal with MME.

[DC3 Dave]

I thought that KLM had done a five year deal with MME.

There would definitely be a force majeure clause in the contract.

[P330]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teessides-amsterdam-flight-suspended-due-19032230

Now confirmed. Back in Feb as things stand.

[SWBKCB]

Apparently the airports FB person feels that Olly Murs appearing at the Darlington Arena is of greater significance to it's followers :ok:

[tigertanaka]

SeanM on Twitter is saying the Easter has secured more slots for Teesside-Heathrow. Treat with a bit of caution but he is normally pretty reliable.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1312014416834105344

[Atlantic Explorer]

SeanM on Twitter is saying the Easter has secured more slots for Teesside-Heathrow. Treat with a bit of caution but he is normally pretty reliable.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1312014416834105344

Doubtful. They’re struggling to get anywhere near reasonable numbers on the existing services without adding even more. Mind you, this is Eastern we’re talking about, so nothing would surprise me.

[SWBKCB]

Surely it's a bit chicken and egg - numbers are low because the schedule isn't particularly useful? I think we have to see this route as a long term project (with some significant losses to start with) while the customer base builds up. Diving in now at the bottom of the market presumably is an attempt to get access to slots for the long term? Needs a decent schedule and interlining agreement to build up creditability.

Or it all could be just extreme electioneering! :ok:

[CabinCrewe]

I ‘give it 6 months’ in any shape or form.

[highwideandugly]

Still uneasy about the amount of money being pumped in to this “project” while the region..like others could put the cash to better use?

Factual that some flights are departing with..shall we say ,not many folks on board..while businesses across the region are suffering big time.
Both will only get worse over the winter while the mayor continues to use up valuable awarded resources..Suppose Eastern are not too bothered as it covers their losses during the quiet winter period.When the money runs out..so will they!

[Atlantic Explorer]

Still uneasy about the amount of money being pumped in to this “project” while the region..like others could put the cash to better use?

Factual that some flights are departing with..shall we say ,not many folks on board..while businesses across the region are suffering big time.
Both will only get worse over the winter while the mayor continues to use up valuable awarded resources..Suppose Eastern are not too bothered as it covers their losses during the quiet winter period.When the money runs out..so will they!

Indeed. It all smacks of some grand showboating by the Mayor undoubtedly in a bid to win support, but at great financial cost to the taxpayer. Perhaps this would have been easier to overlook during normal times, but right now, when in ordinary life elsewhere, throughout the length and breadth of the country, where every penny counts, it’s a little distasteful and inappropriate. Going forward, I think this has a danger of tipping the balance with regards to KLM continuing at MME, with the potential in more stable times to eat away at the their load factor.

[P330]

Still uneasy about the amount of money being pumped in to this “project” while the region..like others could put the cash to better use?

Factual that some flights are departing with..shall we say ,not many folks on board..while businesses across the region are suffering big time.
Both will only get worse over the winter while the mayor continues to use up valuable awarded resources..Suppose Eastern are not too bothered as it covers their losses during the quiet winter period.When the money runs out..so will they!

As a finance guy myself, the question I always ask is would I do this if it were my money? Of course, I’m not privy to all the facts, but I suspect my answer would be ‘no, not for now at least...’.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Surely it's a bit chicken and egg - numbers are low because the schedule isn't particularly useful? I think we have to see this route as a long term project (with some significant losses to start with) while the customer base builds up. Diving in now at the bottom of the market presumably is an attempt to get access to slots for the long term? Needs a decent schedule and interlining agreement to build up creditability.

Or it all could be just extreme electioneering! :ok:

In normal times I would agree, however, I don’t think this factor is particularly important to the few travellers around these days. I think it’s more a case of just getting there however possible at whatever time.

Agree re the interlining, however I don’t think it will ever get that far.

[SWBKCB]

Perhaps this would have been easier to overlook during normal times, but right now, when in ordinary life elsewhere, throughout the length and breadth of the country, where every penny counts, it’s a little distasteful and inappropriate.

To be honest, I'm inclined to agree but there is always the counter arguement that this is exactly the right time to be maintaining/improving access to the region and Mr Mayor has been consistent in saying the area needs greater connectivity.

You do have to wonder though, if things are so bad that even KLM are losing too much money (I'm assuming nobodies making any at the moment...), whether this is the right thing to be doing just now.

Or maybe we should just have the discussion once it's confirmed....:E

[allan1987]

Eastern Airways is expanding MME to LHR flights, On Heathrow website to 3x daily from 25th October

LHR arrival times:
09:10 Mon-Fri
10:05 Sat
15:20 Mon-Sat
16:00 Sun
17:20 Mon-Fri & Sun

LHR departure times:
09:40 Mon-Fri
11:00 Sat
16:15 Mon-Sat
16:55 Sun
18:10 Mon-Fri & Sun

[davidjohnson6]

Could the expansion perhaps be delayed instead until maybe spring 2021, when there might at least be some semblance of passenger demand for this service
It seems a bit like a bus company deciding there is huge demand for buses from suburbs to a town centre at 3 am on a Tuesday, convinced that if only public transport was good enough, the shops would all stay open 24/7

[No-More-Bullschit]

We should not be measuring the success of routes at all in the current environment. That said, I know there are widespread concerns over marketing (or lack of) and as such awareness of services is likely quite low, has anyone seen any advertising of any kind for any of our services? And is it true we are the only airport in the UK to be cut by KLM - if so why are we standing for this??

[SWBKCB]

On Heathrow website to 3x daily from 25th October

Alan1987 - which website?


Could the expansion perhaps be delayed instead until maybe spring 2021

DJ6 - would slots be available (and the election is May!)

We should not be measuring the success of routes at all in the current environment.

N-M-B - agreed

That said, I know there are widespread concerns over marketing (or lack of) and as such awareness of services is likely quite low, has anyone seen any advertising of any kind for any of our services?

N-M-B - yes, the airport is all over the local press and social media.

And is it true we are the only airport in the UK to be cut by KLM - if so why are we standing for this??

N-M-B - no Inverness has been cut. And what would you propose, a march on Schipol? Maybe support the launch of a route to a rival hub.... :ok:

[Atlantic Explorer]

Eastern Airways is expanding MME to LHR flights, On Heathrow website to 3x daily from 25th October

LHR arrival times:
09:10 Mon-Fri
10:05 Sat
15:20 Mon-Sat
16:00 Sun
17:20 Mon-Fri & Sun

LHR departure times:
09:40 Mon-Fri
11:00 Sat
16:15 Mon-Sat
16:55 Sun
18:10 Mon-Fri & Sun

Really? This is getting towards fantasy land now! 2 departures, 2 hours apart in the afternoon/evening? This must involve a second aircraft and second set of crew which put the costs up massively. This really is April the 1st stuff.

[highwideandugly]

But Eastern don’t mind as they are being bankrolled by the Teesside (mayor)taxpayers!

Fear , as stated is..Heathrow recovers and slots as always will be at a premium.Hence Eastern depart the scene and KLM discover that TIA doesn’t fit into there business model anymore.

Never mind ,there are flights to Newquay.That will certainly help inward investment and the Middlesbrough football manager!

[SWBKCB]

But Eastern don’t mind as they are being bankrolled by the Teesside (mayor)taxpayers!

The Mayor's investments funds come from central government, not from local council taxes.

[EI-BUD]

Traffic on GLA/EDI to Heathrow is believed to support 50% connecting traffic, the same statistic for Manchester is higher, believed to be as much as 70%. These routes work for BA due to their network and frequency. I'm guessing that given its location, Newcastle or even Teesside would be a market for connecting traffic between 50% and 70%. Virgin couldn't make Manchester Heathrow work even with its sizeable long haul network. I'm not convinced this route will stack up even post covid. Sadly.

[highwideandugly]

And the majority of government money comes from taxes ,direct or indirect?

[SWBKCB]

And the majority of government money comes from taxes ,direct or indirect?

Exactly, but as I've said before the Mayor's money doesn't come from local taxes but national ones. So Eastern aren't just being bankrolled by Teesside taxpayers, but all of us.

[mmeteesside]

Exactly, but as I've said before the Mayor's money doesn't come from local taxes but national ones. So Eastern aren't just being bankrolled by Teesside taxpayers, but all of us.

in my opinion other areas have had millions/billions spent on them, it's about time we got some of the money spent on our area. Of course it needs to be spent in a sustainable way, and I'm not sure 3x daily to Heathrow is the best use of funds.
KLM are being hit hard by the quarantine requirement of course, would be interesting to know what their UK wide network looks like these days though.

[Wallsendmag]

This is great use of tax payers money, competing against a DfT owned rail company

[No-More-Bullschit]

N-M-B - yes, the airport is all over the local press and social media.
Doesn't count, the press are writing articles of their own volition, and you would expect to see a heavy social media campaign as it doesn't cost! Where is the radio/TV/billboards/sides of buses??

Fear , as stated is..Heathrow recovers and slots as always will be at a premium.Hence Eastern depart the scene and KLM discover that TIA doesn’t fit into there business model anymore.
I would like to believe Eastern wouldn't have applied for the slots if they didn't think they could keep them once all of this is over. KLM surely will be back, Heathrow won't dent it that much - remember last years AMS figures were the highest in 14 years - i.e. when British Midland were running 4x daily alongside!!

Also, I don't give a monkeys about taxpayers money being used be it local or national - look after no.1!

[davidjohnson6]

If Teesside is seen to manage investment effectively and can point clear goals that have been achieved, it will have an easier time asking for more cash from Westminster in the future. It's up to Teesside to decide what those goals are. Waste it all on flying almost empty planes and a bad reputation is gained and it becomes harder to get access to regional support money in the future.

HM Treasury receive far more requests for money than can ever be satisfied - they are not known to be generous to those that like to fritter money away

[SWBKCB]

The airport hasn't been allocated any money by Treasury - the expenditure is part of the Tees Valley Combined Authorities 10 year investment plan, devolved to the Mayor and the TVCA.

[southside bobby]

New "Blue Wall"...as simple as.

[davidjohnson6]

Where does TVCA get its money from for things like this ? HM Treasury perhaps ?

[SWBKCB]

Where does TVCA get its money from for things like this ? HM Treasury perhaps ?

Yes - but expenditure on the airport is part of £588m ten year investment plan. Clearly there will be controls built in, but there is no stand alone Treasury involvement in the airport investment.

[southside bobby]

Whom pray is the Chairman of the Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA) please?

[southside bobby]

Answering my own question...

The Mayor himself is also Chairman of the TVCA.

The airport funding appears very much a personal project led by the Mayor & Chairman then of TVCA.

[tigertanaka]

A triple daily to LHR in the current climate is clearly excessive but we need to remember that in normal times LHR slots go for $30m+ a pair which would be an absolute non-starter for an airline operating MME-LHR. Wait until things recover and the slots potentially wouldn't be available so maybe the long game is the only way to play this one. However who knows if they can secure the same slots for Summer 2020.

Of course we don't have all the detail but one would hope that the airport has some sort of arrangement with Eastern that will stop them flogging off the slots at the first opportunity when the market eventually picks up.

[Robert-Ryan]

After all the discussion on taxpayer money being spent, I see the Mayor on Facebook is now proposing to move HM Treasury itself up to Teesside Airport!!

[SWBKCB]

After all the discussion on taxpayer money being spent, I see the Mayor on Facebook is now proposing to move HM Treasury itself up to Teesside Airport!!

Shy bairns get nowtFurther details of the proposals have now emerged, with a site at publicly-owned Teesside Airport now the most likely location. Details of the ambitious campus plans put forward in a bid by Tees Valley Combined Authority include a moat and multi-storey offices to house top level civil servants.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/uk-treasury-base-earmarked-teesside-19046435

[southside bobby]

The Mayor...A convenient useful & willing trojan horse in the new blue wall?

[N707ZS]

So has the mayor given up on aviation if he wants to build offices on the site for bean counters.

[Lancelot37]

The more used the site becomes, and more diverse, the more likely it will survive.

[N707ZS]

The mayor himself has said if aviation doesn't work he was willing to build on the site.

[Cautious Optimist]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/96126-eastern-airways-aurigny-to-turn-southampton-into-a-hub?fbclid=IwAR0YjrpHpXWHsXkCPGa8vvzIab7HIwn0k1mh5E-QUnfk3xuTkhYnqz07X_A
We shall also shortly add a number of interline agreements especially aiding our Teesside (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/1866)-London Heathrow (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/1892) service

A relief to hear!

[CabinCrewe]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/96126-eastern-airways-aurigny-to-turn-southampton-into-a-hub?fbclid=IwAR0YjrpHpXWHsXkCPGa8vvzIab7HIwn0k1mh5E-QUnfk3xuTkhYnqz07X_A


A relief to hear!
’aiding’ is not a particularly reassuring term...

[highwideandugly]

Problem is..the cost of slots at Heathrow, would I guess , prohibit long term Eastern operation into that airport?

As previously said ,the fear is KLM depart the scene and “hey presto”. No regional connectivity to major markets when/if they recover?

[SWBKCB]

’aiding’ is not a particularly reassuring term...

Really? The full quote is "We shall also shortly add a number of interline agreements especially aiding our Teesside-London Heathrow service and major hubs such as Manchester." Do you find that more re-assuring?


Problem is..the cost of slots at Heathrow, would I guess , prohibit long term Eastern operation into that airport?

Long term? The price of slots is determined by supply and demand, so anybody who knows what the long term demand is going to be...

[Beafer]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

How much are directors paid at Teesside Airport?

[N707ZS]

Why does it matter. New hole to stick your head in.

[tigertanaka]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

How much are directors paid at Teesside Airport?

Directors payments are normally disclosed in the annual accounts. Remember there is a distinction between people who are proper Companies House directors and those who are just senior managers who have director job titles (and some are both).

[SWBKCB]

September stats - AMS 839, BHD 395, LHR 304, NQY 350, SOU 135, JER 170.

[tigertanaka]

To put the numbers in SWBKCB's post in context, here are the...

September CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 3,199 - down 78% v prior year (by comparison, August was 2,529)

Aberdeen: 870 (v 369 in Aug and -43% v Sep 2019)
Amsterdam: 839 (v 1,053 in Aug and -93% v Sep 2019)
Belfast City: 395 (v 368 in Aug)
London Heathrow: 294 (new)
Newquay: 375 (v 630 in Aug)
Southampton: 135 (new)
Jersey: 174 (-55% v Sep 2019)

I reckon this makes the loads on the flights in September as follows:

Aberdeen: 11.8 pax per flight (8.8 in August & 6.3 in July)
Amsterdam: 19.1 (21.9 in August)
Belfast City: 9.0 (9.7 in August & 10.4 in July)
London Heathrow: 12.5 (LCY was 4.1 in August & 5.8 in July)
Newquay: 18.8 (28.7 in August & 17.1 in July)
Southampton: 4.2
Jersey: 29.0

Aberdeen picking up which is really positive, Heathrow numbers look ok so far but it is far too early to judge and Newquay continues to do well. Belfast loads are slightly down but maybe this is down to the additional Sunday rotation. Hard to judge Jersey this year with only 3 Saturday flights, assuming there were minimal pax on the initial JER-MME and on the last MME-JER, then the loads would be over 43 per flight which seems pretty good. 135 passengers on 32 flights to/from Southampton....

[Cautious Optimist]

When you bear in mind Heathrow does not yet have an interline agreement 294 is pretty darn good. Southampton should be doing much better, no reason for it to be that low

[HH6702]

When you bear in mind Heathrow does not yet have an interline agreement 294 is pretty darn good. Southampton should be doing much better, no reason for it to be that low

And how many of those 294 trips were done by spotters

[davidjohnson6]

I hate to say this, but I think 294 to LHR is pretty cr*p. It's a route to the largest city in the UK and intended to be a major hub route. AMS by comparison got almost triple the pax
If the mayor is insistent on a route to London, then he should pause the route right now and save the pile of Govt cash until a time when air traffic is starting to show good signs of recovery, so he can spend the subsidy during a time when it will have a better impact at improving the local economy

[SWBKCB]

I hate to say this, but I think 294 to LHR is pretty cr*p. It's a route to the largest city in the UK and intended to be a major hub route. AMS by comparison got almost triple the pax

AMS also ran throughout the month where as LHR didn't start till mid-month. AMS also has a long established base of alliance customers. Neither of them are great. but...

[Cautious Optimist]

I would imagine next to none of the passengers are spotters, it's a new route, only half a months worth of data, no interline agreement - the numbers are good under the circumstances.

[mmeman]

Eastern understandably look like trimming schedules to meet the demand -
Belfast down to four weekly (No Wednesday or Sunday flight now)
Heathrow down to five weekly (No Tuesday flight now)
Southampton on Mon/Wed/Fri

Newquay and Aberdeen look to be same schedule as planned.

[highwideandugly]

Understandable reductions.

A little fearful that all the airports eggs are in Easterns basket though !

[highwideandugly]

Don’t know how accurate the Teesside departure boards are..but only one Heathrow showing for the next few days( in morning)

I suspect Eastern are changing timetable daily!

[SWBKCB]

The airport website departure board shows a 07.15 LHR departure tomorrow morning then the next LHR flight as being next sunday afternoon. The Eastern website has flights for sale except for Tuesday and Saturday.

[Cautious Optimist]

The movements website noted two days ago that they simply had not been loaded into the system, likely relating to the start of the winter schedules which was today, not that it means anything in the current climate.

[SWBKCB]

Whatever the reason, doesn't look too good that they aren't in sync

[tigertanaka]

The Mayor has been teasing some upcoming news on Facebook: "More big news coming tomorrow" and then a plane emoji. Make of that what you will.

[Jamie2009]

£50 on Teeside International to JFK, starting on the E170 and the jetstream after 2 days.
Best money the tax payer ever spent

[SWBKCB]

The Mayor has been teasing some upcoming news on Facebook: "More big news coming tomorrow" and then a plane emoji. Make of that what you will.

Can't see anything on his FB or Twitter?

[tigertanaka]

Can't see anything on his FB or Twitter?

It was on his Facebook story.

[something_diferent]

Maybe Freight related? Ever since Amazon built the warehouse just down the road have been half expecting an announcement of some freight flights.

[Gunfighter52]

MME1 has frequently been one of the busiest UK sites recently and had some of the most impressive launch figures in Europe. Flights have got to be on the cards at some point surely.

[Cautious Optimist]

It's TUI to Palma Summer 2022, just announced by the Mayor

[N707ZS]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/resources/images/11961885.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=responsive-gallery

No high vis jackets.

[tigertanaka]

The mayor also talking about reopening the walled off section of the terminal (where the Thomson check-in desks used to be).

[No-More-Bullschit]

Good news but didn't he block the funding for a seasonal 737 TUI base just a couple of years ago? Seems a bit rich celebrating one route if so

[highwideandugly]

2 years a long way off! For all of us!

I would guess it will take a bit of confidence to book a Majorca flight now..for then?
Anyone know if it’s a full season?
Wonder what effect it will have..if any on the short series announced for next year?

[sunshine79]

The flights are on a Tuesday starting 10th May 2022 to the end of October, no date of the last flight though.

[mmeteesside]

MME1 has frequently been one of the busiest UK sites recently and had some of the most impressive launch figures in Europe. Flights have got to be on the cards at some point surely.

That is good to hear, and with MME2 open just up the road I am sure Teesside will be added to the EU network at some point.

Good to see TUI showing a bit of interest in Teesside once again too. Weekly to Palma is a start I guess. Jersey flights confirmed today for next year running from May to September too, operated by Eastern. The aircraft will also operate to HUY on a W pattern.

[N707ZS]

Good news but didn't he block the funding for a seasonal 737 TUI base just a couple of years ago? Seems a bit rich celebrating one route if so
Think that was a Peel plan which involved cash that the mayor blocked.

[No-More-Bullschit]

Think that was a Peel plan which involved cash that the mayor blocked.
The same cash he'll be using now to bring in the same business Peel had lined up :suspect:

Still, I shouldn't complain, we're all getting what we want, I guess it doesn't matter how it's achieved.

[10 DME ARC]

2022!!! Really? People will have forgot about it by the time they come to book 2022!

[Cautious Optimist]

Question; they say w-patterns are more expensive than routes originating from a base, but I don't see it, perhaps someone can explain where the extra expense comes from?

[SWBKCB]

For the airline or passenger? For the airline, things like handling will be more expensive for a limited number of flights as there will be discounts for a based a/c - like other things, the more you buy the cheaper it is!

[Cautious Optimist]

True, but the difference surely isn't enough to deter operators from providing them like some claim?

[N707ZS]

Presume the catering lorry will have to drive down from Newcastle again as there is no catering at Teesside.

[Vokes55]

Question; they say w-patterns are more expensive than routes originating from a base, but I don't see it, perhaps someone can explain where the extra expense comes from?

Although small fry in the grand scheme of things, the cost of getting crew to and from the other base is an expense. If this aircraft is originating in Newcastle, it’ll probably be fairly cheap as it could all be done without the use of hotels, however on longer W-sectors that require one or both crews to be in a hotel before or after, that’s up to 12 hotel rooms as well as the transportation expenses. That’s knocking on the door of £2000 per operation.

A lack of local engineering support and crew standby cover can make it expensive if things go wrong.

[highwideandugly]

The mayor will over the costs..don’t fret.

[GBYAJ]

But like deja vu. One weekly W flight becomes 2 and then the based NCL aircraft is moved to MME (happened before with both Thomson and Airtours). Somehow doesn’t work out as planned and a few years later aircraft ends up back at NCL.....

In the meantime the mayor should be spending money on more worthwhile causes like free school meals perhaps rather than a vanity project (albeit a vet big vanity project!)

[N707ZS]

Need Beafer to find it, think the mayor has given 15k for free meals. The team behind Ben know which strings to pull.

[onion]

But like deja vu. One weekly W flight becomes 2 and then the based NCL aircraft is moved to MME (happened before with both Thomson and Airtours). Somehow doesn’t work out as planned and a few years later aircraft ends up back at NCL.....

In the meantime the mayor should be spending money on more worthwhile causes like free school meals perhaps rather than a vanity project (albeit a vet big vanity project!)

A few years?
Airtours aircraft was Canadian with the crew staying in Yarm and Thomson picked up when Mytravel/Airtours went. I think your few years was nearer 20! IIRC

[GBYAJ]

A few years?
Airtours aircraft was Canadian with the crew staying in Yarm and Thomson picked up when Mytravel/Airtours went. I think your few years was nearer 20! IIRC


Yes it was around 20 years ago! If not more!! But the MME based operation only lasted a few years. shows how long it is since a commercial operator was actually interested in MME.

while Thomson had a based aircraft at MME the NCL base became something like 1.5 aircraft per week the lowest it has been in a summer (except now of course) . While the Airtours Canadian one had been A different leased one at NCL (Excalibur I think)

anyway the jist is can’t see it ending well and given the state of the aviation industry I think that the mayors money could be better spent! ☹️ sorry!

[onion]

GBYAJ no, my point is MME had a based IT charter aircraft for around 20 years. They also had many more IT services that weren't done by a based aircraft.
It's not been 20 years since MME had based IT aircraft either.

You just smack of an sore NCL supporter not wanting any competition. Next you ll advocating for MME to completely close.

[GBYAJ]

GBYAJ no, my point is MME had a based IT charter aircraft for around 20 years. They also had many more IT services that weren't done by a based aircraft.
It's not been 20 years since MME had based IT aircraft either.

You just smack of an sore NCL supporter not wanting any competition. Next you ll advocating for MME to completely close.



Mmmm, One weekly proposed TUI flight in 2022 is hardly competition.

The facts on competition over the last 50 years speak for themselves. While MME did have more IT flights than they have now in the late 90’s early 00’s it was never that many..

I was mearly pointing out that if I was a betting man how things would go based on historic performance/ cycles.

the last based Thomson 737 moved to NCL pre 2010 IIRC so it may not be 20 but not recent...

Overall unfortunately given the economic climate I’m happier in the history and nostalgia thread reading about when the Dan air 146’s were based at MME for weekend IT flying. A new flight to LHR in this time is just bamboozling.

[Beafer]

Need Beafer to find it, think the mayor has given 15k for free meals. The team behind Ben know which strings to pull.

I wanted the airport to remain open, but reading the Companies House accounts for Teesside International Airport, the losses of £5.7 million before tax is something the bean counters will be worried about.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

The last "full accounts" dated 3rd January 2020 pdf download shown in the filing history, mentions on page 2 of the "Strategic Report" that there is a concern about the ongoing losses. The report was signed off by the board of directors.

KLM growth is also mentioned in the same report, but with covid that growth has stopped.

The Mayor may need a lot of government support for the airport, as the next accounts will probably show the ongoing millions in losses has grown. Who will pick up the tab is anyones guess?
Stobart may have other ventures to worry about, so the buck will stop at the Mayors door. The next Mayoral election may change everything again.

Good luck to the people involved in running the airport.

[tigertanaka]

I wanted the airport to remain open, but reading the Companies House accounts for Teesside International Airport, the losses of £5.7 million before tax is something the bean counters will be worried about.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/filing-history

The last "full accounts" dated 3rd January 2020 pdf download shown in the filing history, mentions on page 2 of the "Strategic Report" that there is a concern about the ongoing losses. The report was signed off by the board of directors.

KLM growth is also mentioned in the same report, but with covid that growth has stopped.

The Mayor may need a lot of government support for the airport, as the next accounts will probably show the ongoing millions in losses has grown. Who will pick up the tab is anyones guess?
Stobart may have other ventures to worry about, so the buck will stop at the Mayors door. The next Mayoral election may change everything again.

Good luck to the people involved in running the airport.

The last full accounts were filed on 30 January 2020 - they actually cover the year ending 31 March 2019 so are hardly up to date and remember that Peel controlled the company up until 15 February 2019. The profit figure to look at is the operating profit (loss) of £2.7m, not £5.7m - the £3m difference is a paper loss relating to write down of the value of property.

[Cautious Optimist]

Although small fry in the grand scheme of things, the cost of getting crew to and from the other base is an expense. If this aircraft is originating in Newcastle, it’ll probably be fairly cheap as it could all be done without the use of hotels, however on longer W-sectors that require one or both crews to be in a hotel before or after, that’s up to 12 hotel rooms as well as the transportation expenses. That’s knocking on the door of £2000 per operation.

A lack of local engineering support and crew standby cover can make it expensive if things go wrong.
I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?

[SWBKCB]

I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?

So what's in it for the airline? If you can operate a full programme from your base, why would you consider the additional cost and risk of a W flight unless it is going to be more profitable than the equivalent rotation from your base? As it is unlikely that anything on the W is going to be cheaper than operating from your base, you have to charge more...

[Albert Hall]

I would have thought even the longest of Ws (Tenerife?) from a base much further away than NCL would require just a single crew, no hotel expenses etc, and with modern aircraft and high maintenance standards you shouldn't be factoring in potential costs of engineering support because why anticipate technical faults when the risk should be minimal anyway?

I think "Boundless Optimist" might be a more appropriate user name with those comments!

You can't operate even NCL-PMI-MME-PMI-NCL within a duty day, let alone NCL-TFS-MME-TFS-NCL. If you are operating the back half of the pattern, MME-TFS-NCL, the start time of the duty is such that you're unlikely to be able to fit in road transfer from NCL to MME before the first sector and still complete the two sectors in the allowable FDP. The crew picking the aircraft up at MME would need to road in the day before and overnight.

You could potentially operate this with no engineering cover. It's probably pretty foolhardy to do so on a long rotation with EU261 liability if it goes wrong even once out of a 26-week season and - in the case of PMI - with passengers connecting to the Marella cruise ship.

And

[GrahamK]

Perhaps Tui are looking into a PMI base, similar to what they have done in the Canaries in the winter, and what Jet2 have done at PMI and ALC.

Or it will be someone like Air Europa operating

[Cautious Optimist]

Yeah I messed up the maths with the TFS example. That said whilst I can see how it's more expensive, it's not more expensive to the point where an operator should be deterred from doing them. Then again I guess they're not because we've got one...

[GBYAJ]

Perhaps Tui are looking into a PMI base, similar to what they have done in the Canaries in the winter, and what Jet2 have done at PMI and ALC.

Or it will be someone like Air Europa operating


At the prospect of being called a troll now, read this morning that Air Europa are in dire straits. Haven’t paid suppliers for months and taking a 450m loan from the Spanish government, perhaps it’ll just be the NCL based TUI plane W’ing in. The NCL based engineer could just pop down the road on the crew bus and then go back with the inbound crew, sorted.

[GrahamK]

Given that NCL is already seeing W flights from other bases, It wouldn't make much sense to fly its based a/c on W flights elsewhere would it?
if it is Tui operating the flight, I suspect it will be a MAN based a/c

[mmeman]

From the Eastern booking engine, looks like Heathrow, Southampton and Newquay all suspended in the lockdown period, with Aberdeen operating as normal, and Belfast cut to 2 weekly, Monday and Friday flights.

Seems like a sensible decision.

[highwideandugly]

Very sensible and not alone!

Passenger numbers are ..to be honest awful at the moment and the next month would certainly be minus awful!

Mayor needs to save his pennies!

I wonder how airports in general will survive this.
Ironic that previously dodgy performing airports are doing not too bad thank you! Prestwick,Doncaster EMA et al!

[SWBKCB]

Revised lockdown arrangements - new Eastern timetable and terminal closed at weekends.

"Airport remains on course for Rescue Plan despite global pandemic"

Interestingly, also says "Another new airline partner set to be revealed next week"

Airport Vows To Keep Key Workers Flying During Pandemic (https://www.teessideinternational.com/airport-vows-to-keep-key-workers-flying-during-pandemic/)

[tigertanaka]

"Another new airline partner set to be revealed next week"

https://twitter.com/TeesAirport/status/1324680032485285890

[N707ZS]

Thanks to our overhaul of Hangar 1 from the link above. It doesn't look much different.

[something_diferent]

I'd imagine another charter airline for flights to Spain or similar?

[EI-BUD]

Maybe Volotea to VRN?

[davidjohnson6]

Is Verona a sufficiently large market for a weekly charter from Teesside ? Any new holiday route in 2021 has to be an absolute fail-safe in terms of retail demand. Think Alicante, Malaga, Faro, etc...

[toledoashley]

Maybe Volotea to VRN?

If Newmarket are offering Lake Garda via Bergamo, why would someone else offer Verona?

[something_diferent]

Loganair back at Teesside, flights to Aberdeen, Belfast, Dublin, Newquay and Jersey.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/new-teesside-flights-cornwall-dublin-19250308

[Cautious Optimist]

Not sure how I feel about this, Eastern must be livid. I'm quite pleased our eggs are no longer in one basket, and on the basis that Aberdeen worked for both carriers last time around I can't see any reason why that wouldn't be the case again - IF marketed properly. Belfast is probably the one that can't sustain two carriers.

[Alteagod]

Very very surprised at BHD. I would say one carrier would struggle nevermind two. Unless LM know something about T3 we don't ie its pulling the route.

[GrahamK]

Something very fishy. Eastern pull out of MME in response?

[P330]

Yes, this feels odd. With barely enough demand to sustain the one carrier, why introduce another?

I suspect there is more to this story than we know about.

[Plane mad 134]

Frequencies for the Loganair routes are:
• 10x weekly Aberdeen.
• 7x weekly Belfast.
• 7x weekly Dublin.
• 3x weekly Newquay.
​​​​​• 1x weekly Jersey (on a W-pattern)

Will equate to a based E145 at Teeside for S21.

Thanks to SeanM1997 for the info.

Link: https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1326043655044526081?s=19

[N707ZS]

Even Peel couldn't of planned such an end game. I see the Gazette has banned comments.

[Atlantic Explorer]

And the pantomime continues! There’s no way the Mayor is going to support Eastern to fly routes whilst getting another airline in. There has undoubtedly IMO been some financial incentives given to Loganair to come in like this!

[highwideandugly]

Stop me if we’ve heard it all before!

Deja vu Airlines to be announced next week?

So Loganair come in,dilute a very fragile market,Eastern take the huff and pull out as the mayor money starts to run dry,Loganair struggle and pull back to Newcastle( if they are open!) or Scotland.

Eastern pursuaded to return and so it goes on!

Of course I might be wrong😀

Government department anyone..mayor advances his career and becomes a London big player!

Of course I might be wrong😀

[fanrailuk]

Am I right in thinking the E145 cannot operate into BHD as it doesn’t have reverse thrust?

[GrahamK]

Am I right in thinking the E145 cannot operate into BHD as it doesn’t have reverse thrust?
the 145 has been operating to BHD from GLA with no problems

[fanrailuk]

the 145 has been operating to BHD from GLA with no problems

Fair enough. Maybe a payload minimum/maximum needed to get in/out then...
Thanks.

[jorvik]

Feel like this is almost throwing darts to see what you hit motive at this point for MME. What a strange way to do business, routes already covered, nothing particularly exciting for a regular Joe (by this I mean no low cost or package holiday flight which really got people talking and flying), and potentially a suicidal move to leave you with nothing in the long run. Of course it’s easy for people to criticise from the outside looking in, but with what I assume, rightly or wrongly, incentivised options given to airlines, I could think of better targets to and destinations to throw money at to get the Teeside public through the door.

[N707ZS]

If Loganair take the advertised route it leaves Eastern with Heathrow and options for London City and Cardiff. The Mayor is up for re-election in May so would he risk a disaster only leaving Cobham the fire school and GA in the worst scenario.

[oldart]

I suppose that Eastern could venture to a few holiday destinations using the E 190, range of 2500 miles could bring in Palma, Ebiza, Alicante and Malaga.

[SKOJB]

I suppose that Eastern could venture to a few holiday destinations using the E 190, range of 2500 miles could bring in Palma, Ebiza, Alicante and Malaga.

You mean like Flybe, jack of all trades master of none springs to mind!

[N707ZS]

Would be interesting to know if the mayors office is paying for both sets of flights.

[AirportPlanner1]

Although clearly the Mayor gets about in the press don’t assume he’s not worried about re-election prospects. There is evidence of moves against the Prime Minister by a coalition of Tory MPs centred around a united issue of incompetence although for individuals it’s about Brexit approach, Covid handling and corruption. Anyway, a fear of wipeout in next year’s local elections is bringing things to the fore. So if the Mayor has dished out a 3 year contract to Logan, that keeps the airport ticking over for longer than it would otherwise. Of course if the Mayor does get back in, the airport still wins

[SWBKCB]

So if the Mayor has dished out a 3 year contract to Logan, that keeps the airport ticking over for longer than it would otherwise.

So how does a 3 year contract to Loganair to operate to identical destinations and frequencies as operated by Eastern keep the airport ticking over? Just doesn't stack up, and you might not agree with everything he does, but daft Mr Mayor isn't.

If things stay as they are, all he's done is given his opponents a stick to beat him with.

[Cautious Optimist]

The airport/TVCA need to get their media people in check, they're claiming Loganair's Aberdeen is 6x weekly but it's bookable as twice daily on weekdays; they also made a fool of themselves this morning by claiming Jersey was new and not in competition with Eastern and the other week they wished someone a pleasant flight back from Heathrow on Twitter after the flight had been cancelled. :rolleyes:

[SWBKCB]

The press release on the airport website still says "six flights per week to Aberdeen". The whole "return of Loganair" advertising theme seems a bit odd after the way they left last time.

[P330]

It will be fascinating to see what a summer day looks like in 21; in theory multiple flights a day to London, Amsterdam, Aberdeen, Belfast, Newquay and Dublin with a daily Southampton and holiday flights to Alicante, Palms and Bulgaria. If everything comes to pass, that is an astonishing turnaround.

Hope it actually happens!

[oldart]

With Amazon operating two large warehouses in the area and a third to be announced, do you think there is scope for aviation freight for Amazon to use MME?

[mmeteesside]

With Amazon operating two large warehouses in the area and a third to be announced, do you think there is scope for aviation freight for Amazon to use MME?

It will be four by the time Wynyard opens in Sep 2022 as the next one to open is at Follingsby Park near Gateshead, albeit that one will be labelled NCL1. I think it's only a matter of time before we see some Amazon flights into Teesside.

[Get me some traffic]

Onion suggested that about 4 years ago!

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

I can remember the days of Orlando being available from MME. How times have changed.

[OMGitsDAVE]

I've noticed the Darlington site is using an MME code now - it can't be long before they come to Teesside!

[N707ZS]

The Bowburn site is MME1, there could be MME2.

[mmeteesside]

The Bowburn site is MME1, there could be MME2.
Other way around... Darlington is MME1, Bowburn MME2, I'd imagine Wynyard will become MME3.

[P330]

Are troop flights back at the airport?

Looked like a RAF 330 going overhead and coming in this morning....

[horatio_b]

The RAF Voyager departed around lunchtime to Akrotiri

[onion]

Looks like Eastern didn't get any LHR slots for summer 21. Obviously things may change, but I'm guessing they ll reinstate LCY next summer.

[N707ZS]

That won't look good on the mayors plans.

[GrahamK]

Would LCY want them back after being dropped very swiftly?

[SWBKCB]

Would LCY want them back after being dropped very swiftly?

Doubt they're in a position to be fussy.

I wouldn't write off LHR yet.

[Albert Hall]

It was always highly unlikely that anyone was going to get LHR slots for Summer 2021 right from the off.

For Winter 2020, those airlines like Rwandair, Ukraine, China Airlines and Eastern who secured slots have been given these without grandfather rights attached. As the "use it or lose it" rule has been suspended through a slot waiver, airlines at Heathrow can hand back their slots but still protect their long-term access to them. Those slots are then being handed out on a short-term basis.

For Summer 2021, it is not clear whether there will be any change to the use it or lose it rule. Every airline has reclaimed the slots to which they hold grandfather rights and so Heathrow (as of now) is technically full for Summer 2021. Of course, there will be a lot of airlines either hoping for a slot waiver or going into deals with other airlines to babysit slots for them. None of those will be visible at this point in time.

What you see now and where things end up for Summer 2021 LHR slots will be two very different pictures.

[Cautious Optimist]

Would LCY want them back after being dropped very swiftly?
It's not dropped it's COVID suspended

[mmeman]

Looks like Eastern updated their schedules up unto 10th January 2021

No Southampton or Newquay flights, in fact Newquay doesn't return till February
Belfast remains on a Monday and Friday
Aberdeen remains 1 flight Mon to Fri on an E145 shared with Humberside
Heathrow does return from 7th December.

Dublin and Cardiff do not appear as an option in booking engine any more.

[Alteagod]

The bhd flights now seem to be sou-bhd-mme-bhd-sou. In time no doubt it will be sold as through service. Is cwl-bhd still on the cards?

[tigertanaka]

Looks like Eastern didn't get any LHR slots for summer 21. Obviously things may change, but I'm guessing they ll reinstate LCY next summer.

Eastern applied for 68 slots (presumably 38 would be for a 3 weekday/2 weekend MME and 30 for another route - maybe the PSO for NQY?)
Loganair applied for 138 LHR slots (some would be for IOM, maybe NQY and then possibly LBA and/or MME?)

[Albert Hall]

Eastern applied for MME-LHR and LBA-LHR.

Loganair applied for DND-LHR (which I think they always do?), IOM-LHR and NQY.-LHR.

You can change destinations pretty easily so I wouldn't take it as gospel that's what these are. Eastern's LBA-LHR could easily be covering NQY and Loganair's NQY-LHR could easily be covering MME and none of us would be any the wiser until or unless this ever sees the light of day.

[SWBKCB]

TEES Valley Mayor Ben Houchen has welcomed the announcement from Government that Teesside International Airport will receive a slice of £100million being made available to support airports as they recover from coronavirus.

The £471,000 grant, which is the equivalent to the Business Rates that the airport would have paid in 2020-21, means Teesside Airport will pay nothing in Business Rates next year - helping to protect jobs and the local economy.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18894894.mayor-welcomes-slice-100m-support-teesside-airport-pandemic/

[GrahamK]

Ryanair to Alicante and Palma the next new routes

[Flying Hi]

Ryanair to Alicante and Palma the next new routes
Should there be a question mark after that sentence?
Info please.

[GrahamK]

Should there be a question mark after that sentence?
Info please.
2 x weekly to each starting S21. Ryanair app shows the airport as Durham Tees however

Thanks to @SeanM1997 on Twitter

[Robert-Ryan]

Bookable on the Ryanair app

[Flying Hi]

Many thanks for the updates.

[Beafer]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18896708.ryanair-return-teesside-airport-2021-holiday-flights/

[P330]

Wow! Brilliant news and the classic bucket and spade routes people want.

[Flying Hi]

I would guess RYR not coughing up much in fees to MME but its bums on seats through the Terminal for the Holiday Spenders.

[P330]

Looks like reasonable flight times.

Alicante - Mon/Fri
Palma - Sat/Tue

Are Eastern still planning on Alicante next summer; I can’t see it on their booking engine.

[N707ZS]

Presume the £6 passenger duty will be going as it was one thing that Ryanair didn't like. Mayor Ben can say he has done all of his promises when the election comes around in May. Just needs a Salzburg flight to keep his fan club happy.

[LTNman]

Wonder who is paying who for Ryanair to use the airport? Hopefully the airport will make money out of this and can attract further business.

[SWBKCB]

Wonder who is paying who for Ryanair to use the airport?

Gosh yes, I wonder who? :ok:

Hopefully the airport will make money out of this and can attract further business.

That's clearly the aim, to get traffic up to a self-sustaining level e.g. attract more retail, spread fixed/staffing costs.

Wasn't the £6 terminal tax meant to go at the end of the this financial year. That's probably when the drop off charge will come in (or maybe a couple of months later.... :E)

[BSARTL]

This is still good news for all regional airports during a time when consolidation will happen, and in an industry where the most cost effective option will be chosen by the airlines. Even if any future growth or stability next year will be driven by the ULCC like Ryanair or Wizz, but as with any business like airports their main revenue income will always be parking or duty free first as all passengers use these services. All airport operators at the moment will be offering anything to the airlines to get them in. As you only have to look at the daily arrival boards in all these airports to see the true scale of the impact this pandemic is having on the industry. Any positively big or small is crucial at the moment to support the recovery of this sector.

[tigertanaka]

A couple of things:

It seems like Ryanair have signed a 7 year agreement with Teesside Airport: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18897890.ryanair-seven-year-contract-teesside-airport---flights-2028/
Given that Ryanair are inevitably getting a fat subsidy to fly from the airport and that the mayor has committed to abolishing the £6 departure fee, there will need to be a significant ramp up in the retail/food/drink operation to drive non-airline income. I guess post-brexit, a duty free shop is a given plus maybe an expansion of the lounge.

[Cautious Optimist]

The Mayor said in a reply to his Facebook post that Ryanair weren't being subsidised whatsoever, however he boasts that he saved the airport from closure which isn't true so I guess he wouldn't think twice about telling porkies about that.

[tigertanaka]

The Mayor said in a reply to his Facebook post that Ryanair weren't being subsidised whatsoever, however he boasts that he saved the airport from closure which isn't true so I guess he wouldn't think twice about telling porkies about that.

I guess it depends on your definition of a subsidy. It would be normal for a new airline coming in to have reduced/zero landing fees for a period of time plus some financial/marketing support for setting up at a new airport. That's quite different to underwriting so many seats on each plane (as per NQY-LON) but it is still a form of subsidy.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I guess it depends on your definition of a subsidy. It would be normal for a new airline coming in to have reduced/zero landing fees for a period of time plus some financial/marketing support for setting up at a new airport. That's quite different to underwriting so many seats on each plane (as per NQY-LON) but it is still a form of subsidy.

Just a typical Politician economical with the truth and spin. There’s no way on Gods earth that Ryanair are coming in without subsidy in some form or other. That’s a given.

[SWBKCB]

There’s no way on Gods earth that Ryanair are coming in without subsidy in some form or other. That’s a given.

Agreed - Ryanair have made it clear that they are looking at those airports that come up with the best deals - even more so now than before...

OK – so where is MME now? I’ve no inside knowledge but this is how it looks to me. It appears the Mayor’s aims where to:

1. keep the airport open, then stabilise with the aim of moving into profit;
2. increase the regions ‘global connectivity’ so as to increase the industrial base of the region;
3. for the airport to become a centre of employment, attracting skilled well paid jobs.

Where have we got to?

Stabilisation – like Cautious Optimist, I think it’s easy to paint Peel as the evil villains, and I was never convinced that the airport was going to close, but certainly the future is brighter than it has been for years and jobs at the airport have been protected

Global connectivity - keeping the airport open should retains the KLM service, which they’ve kept over the years so must be doing something for them. SOU, ABZ, BHD are all good looking domestic routes before Covid, with hopefully DUB to follow. The Loganair and Eastern duplication is baffling – can these routes really support two operators? Also, can MME support LCY and LHR, and is LHR without interlining anything other than a trophy route? Juries out on that for me - don’t forget money is also going into trains and stations as well.

Increasing employment – I think we are still in the stabilisation phase. I’ve no idea on the current levels of employment and shift patterns, but looking at the speculative schedules on the Teesside movements website, still looks like two not that busy shifts to me, so more a case of those current employed being busier/ getting more hours. There’s still potential in the southside and the Treasury campus. Also well done on the emphasis on using local firms were possible.

The downside? Well the obvious one is where is the money coming from – if airlines aren’t being paid to operate from MME, they certainly aren’t being charged much – can’t all be down to the mayor’s charm and good looks, even if there is an element of the airport bottoming out and recovering to a more natural level. Also, just looking at the place, there is many years of investment needed to just to maintain the current level. Obviously, we all actually know where the money is coming from, so I suppose the question is is there enough to get the airport to a sustainable level and what’s the opportunity cost – i.e. would the money have been better spent elsewhere?

Also – is the level of funding such that it gives MME an uncompetitive advantage, i.e. it starts to damage the likes of NCL and LBA? Believe me, I’m all for competition and also in using government money to ‘kick start’ industry, but sometimes the two don’t mix.

[N707ZS]

Missed one:
4. Get re allected next May.

[SWBKCB]

Missed one:
4. Get re allected next May.

sooo cynical! :O

[N707ZS]

Plate spinning comes to mind.

[highwideandugly]

Boy done well! TIA. web shows not enough stands next year.The realists amongst us would guess 25% will happen?

Time will tell.

[LGS6753]

4 Ryanair flights depart per week @ 189pax capacity. = 756 pax
Say 85% load factor (although it's nearer 95%) = 642 pax
And say 70% arrive by car, at 3 pax per car = 150 cars per week.
Parking charge per car per week = £50.
Additional revenue = £7500 per week x 21 week season = £157,000
Additional costs = £31,000 VAT.
Extra profit = £126,000

And that's just the car parking

Disclaimer - the above numbers are just conservative estimates.

[tigertanaka]

4 Ryanair flights depart per week @ 189pax capacity. = 756 pax
Say 85% load factor (although it's nearer 95%) = 642 pax
And say 70% arrive by car, at 3 pax per car = 150 cars per week.
Parking charge per car per week = £50.
Additional revenue = £7500 per week x 21 week season = £157,000
Additional costs = £31,000 VAT.
Extra profit = £126,000

And that's just the car parking

Disclaimer - the above numbers are just conservative estimates.

But if they had to remove the airport development fee to get Ryanair (and lets not be suprised if this is announced a couple of weeks before the election):
Ryanair: 642 pax per week x 21 weeks x £6 airport development fee minus 20% VAT = £67,000 lost revenue (ok they never had this in the first place)
But other airlines pre-covid: 1,350 departing pax per week x 52 weeks x £6 airport development fee minus 20% VAT = £351,000 lost revenue

So the extra car parking income that Ryanair creates covers less than half of the lost cash that they are getting from the airport development fee from existing passengers. But even with Ryanair providing more throughput, the airport still needs to make £2.68 extra clear profit out of each departing passenger to break even compared to today. Cafe, bar, duty free, lounge, foreign exchange and retail will all have their parts to play.

Of course Loganair coming in will help and if Ryanair further ramp up their operations and/or run a winter season there could be a lot more passengers but the airport has a bit challenge to replace the £6 charge.

[Cautious Optimist]

How much difference this will make I don't know but don't forget the airport gets 100% of any hospitality income with it being in-house

[SWBKCB]

Haven't they just spent over a million on the security area and arrivals hall?

[N707ZS]

They have just fitted a big scanner somewhere.

[highwideandugly]

Quote.



“How much difference this will make I don't know but don't forget the airport gets 100% of any hospitality income with it being in-house”

Not quite true as will have to employ ,duty free and hospitality staff..non at moment,apron staff..just a couple at moment,increased Security,AFS and ATC ..a few still needed for increased cover? Plus I’m sure there will be other areas?

All will have to paid from the mayors purse until the revenue starts to flow in 😀

[oldart]

There is a demand for flights from MME, all that's going to happen is, they will get back some of the passengers from NCL and LBA, that were forced to use these airports in the first place. I believe this was due to mismanagement, once the local people realise that flights are available again, the airport will hopefully start to regain some of the lost ground which has happened over the last few years. I can remember at one time the local buses had adverts on them for Jet2, maybe MME should use the same tactic now and tell the public about the new routes.

[SWBKCB]

There is a demand for flights from MME, all that's going to happen is, they will get back some of the passengers from NCL and LBA, that were forced to use these airports in the first place.

Yes there's demand, but the question is whether there is enough demand to support a profitable business. I find it hard to believe that airport mismanagement forced lots of profitable routes to be dropped.

[southside bobby]

Curiously there has been no mention of the muddle in the mix that is Stobart Aviation.

[SWBKCB]

Curiously there has been no mention of the muddle in the mix that is Stobart Aviation.

There hasn't been for a long time...

[onion]

Let me assure you mismanagement/apathy had alot to do with routes going and not being replaced.
There are obviously some on here who hate to see MME do well/grow.
What most tend to forget is that a pax operation is just one of many strings to the airports bow.
The whole of Teesside/Tees Valley is seeing investment at the moment so why cant the airport be in a position to take advantage?

Regarding subsidies get over it. Local government and national government give subsidies and incentives in many different industries. Why can't the mayor do it at the airport. As long as no laws regarding them are being broken.
if you want it at NCL or LBA lobby your local councillors or MPs. The Mayor put his manifesto out there and as far as I can see he was voted in on it and is trying to keep his promises!
The demand is there they just have to get the right fit.

[Get me some traffic]

SWBKCB, the demand has always been there. When it was announced that Peel were "given" the airport many of us said that would be the end. Peel wanted the land and did their best to close the airport. They ran the place down from the word go.
The 2008 crash saw aviation shrink by 12%, Teesside shrank by over 80% in pax alone. Peel told the largest charter airline in Europe to get lost!! How much more evidence do you need? If FRA/FPL, a strong corporate base and various other assets hadn't been there the airport would have gone under.
The Mayor is turning the airport around, he is not an aviation specialist. How come Peel couldn't with a department that ran airports and far deeper pockets? They didn't want to!! We are lucky to have someone who believes in the airport, puts his money where his mouth is and has the success of the region at heart. Power to his elbow!!!

[Robert-Ryan]

SWBKCB, the demand has always been there. When it was announced that Peel were "given" the airport many of us said that would be the end. Peel wanted the land and did their best to close the airport. They ran the place down from the word go.
The 2008 crash saw aviation shrink by 12%, Teesside shrank by over 80% in pax alone. Peel told the largest charter airline in Europe to get lost!! How much more evidence do you need? If FRA/FPL, a strong corporate base and various other assets hadn't been there the airport would have gone under.
The Mayor is turning the airport around, he is not an aviation specialist. How come Peel couldn't with a department that ran airports and far deeper pockets? They didn't want to!! We are lucky to have someone who believes in the airport, puts his money where his mouth is and has the success of the region at heart. Power to his elbow!!!
All airports with sub-1million pax were far closer to the 80% if not worse than us, look at Blackpool, Coventry, Manston. The airport telling TUI to get lost is a very cynical way of phrasing it and the subsequent improvement in financial position proved it to be the correct thing to do, and if TUI were less than understanding they wouldn't have been ready to return with a based aircraft before the Mayor blocked the subsidy funding, nor would Loganair have been ready to expand to the kind of operation they're coming back with. All this said, if the Mayor doesn't start advertising these services properly, it's all in vain anyway.

[SWBKCB]

Ah, see we are fighting old battles rather than looking forward?

Peel wanted the land and did their best to close the airport. They ran the place down from the word go.

If Peel wanted to close the airport from the word go, they didn't do a very good job of it - all they had to do was p*ss of KLM and give FRA an offer they couldn't refuse to move to DSA. Wasn't it Peel that brought in Baby and Globespan? Weak companies, but that tells its own story. Nobody else dived in when they went.

As for the land, plenty of land at MME without closing the airport. Why go to the trouble of closing the airport, which wouldn't endear any planning applications to the LA's? It's not as if Teesside is short of alternative brownfield sites, but only one with a runway. Even the Mayor is looking to do the same to the Southside as Peel was after. Look at LPL - why didn't Peel replicate that if the market conditions where there?

The 2008 crash saw aviation shrink by 12%, Teesside shrank by over 80% in pax alone.

In any recession, airlines retreat to their stongholds and the marginal bases go (look at EZY this year). Don't forget that the north-east is one of the countries poorest areas. Newcastle has never got back to 2007 levels, even with MME's decline - EDI and LBA have grown greatly, but they are in richer areas.

Peel told the largest charter airline in Europe to get lost!! How much more evidence do you need?

Baffling, but only one flight a week. Cock-up more likely than conspiracy. It was also Peel that got Balkan back in...

How come Peel couldn't with a department that ran airports and far deeper pockets? They didn't want to!! We are lucky to have someone who believes in the airport, puts his money where his mouth is and has the success of the region at heart. Power to his elbow!!!

Well, easier to spend somebody elses money rather than your own. I've got reservation about the the Eastern/Loganair conumdrum and the London adventures, but the airport is moving in the right direction and the Mayor is to be applauded for that.

So what are the dangers? Worst case is that the Mayor is pursuing a popular policy for election purposes and once he moves onto bigger and better things, interest will wane and Teesside will be left with a white elephant airport that never earns it's keep. Maybe the region would have been better spending that money elsewhere on projects that provided fewer photo opportunities.

A broad range of operators and destinations, an increasing diverse range of businesses on the airport and making best use of the land available (doesn't this sound like Peel's last Masterplan?) is what the airport needs - but all of that needs a hell a lot of money, all I'm questioning is whether there is enough business there to make it sustainable, and whether it's the best use of public money.

[southside bobby]

Again many words posted today but still no mention of Stobart Aviation...curious.

[Cautious Optimist]

Ah, see we are fighting old battles rather than looking forward?
I was just going to say something similar! I got pulled up just yesterday for voicing my disenchantment at how 95% of people feel like they've been proven right and are laughing their heads off which is not an accurate reflection of the truth, I was told; "If Peel is still a topic on social media then that says it all about such platforms".

I'm not supposed to get involved in these discussions due to my interests in the Friends of the Airport, however that group would not have been able to maintain a healthy and stable membership throughout the Peel era if they didn't believe the airport was going to continue on long term, we're not a bunch of brainwashed enthusiasts as some would have people believe, but rather smart, intelligent and successful businessmen at the helm, and we have seen lot's of things that simply do not support a planned closure.

[N707ZS]

If more flights do appear the airport will need to invest money into the airfield. Stands are short at the moment, triggers broom snow clearing equipment could be embarrassing and then there's the CAT I airfield which the neighbouring airfields upgraded years ago.

[onion]

If more flights do appear the airport will need to invest money into the airfield. Stands are short at the moment, triggers broom snow clearing equipment could be embarrassing and then there's the CAT I airfield which the neighbouring airfields upgraded years ago.

You are right about investment being needed.
Although the stand situation isnt that bad. Firstly if you re going by the movement sites say so, I believe they themselves say what it 'could' be. I'm sure Eastern wont be running LHR and LCY. It'll be one or the other. The J41s are small and may be able to be doubled up on the larger stands and there are plenty of stands else where and there is almost 2hrs between 1st flight out and last of the first wave according to the movement site so you can do cold moves from a remote stand to the main apron.
Yes the snow clearance has been an issue in the past but I'm not sure of the situation currently. Is CAT 2/3 really needed? It would be nice. Admittedly the fog is has been worse since the Tees barrage was installed. It isn't that bad and doesn't suffer the weather issue it southern neighbour encounters.

[oldart]

Surely there are more options other than extra flights. I think I am right to say that there was a perfectly good outfit that resprayed aircraft, Tarom used them for their BAC 111 fleet. I know Peel kept on about their master plan, I am not sure what they achieved. Did they put their hands in their pockets for the link road to the A66?
Robert-Ryan is right, the new routes need to be advertised, as Jet2 did, plenty of buses running around Teesside. The reasons why TUI left are not clear but they did have a 737-800 based at MME, surely it was not for lack of demand.