BA almost hits the wall! [Archive]

The AvgasDinosaur

15th Jul 2019, 22:11

Is this really necessary?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/main-1-e1563187324678.jpg?w=670
There’s only three truths in any newspaper
j) The date
ii) The price
iii) The horoscopes
Everything else is either made up or distorted
In this instance selective use of a telephoto lens!!
I.M.H.O.
David

Airbubba

15th Jul 2019, 22:21

Video of the Jungle Jet landing in the Sun article:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/9509245/skiathos-greek-airport-dubbed-europes-st-maarten-plane-selfies/

cappt

15th Jul 2019, 22:23

There’s only three truths in any newspaper
j) The date
ii) The price
iii) The horoscopes
Everything else is either made up or distorted
In this instance selective use of a telephoto lens!!
I.M.H.O.
David

Nope, it was way too low 1/2 mile out.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/9509245/skiathos-greek-airport-dubbed-europes-st-maarten-plane-selfies/

pattern_is_full

15th Jul 2019, 22:48

Everything else is either made up or distorted
In this instance selective use of a telephoto lens!!

Except that the distortion and perspective show that that is clearly a wide-angle lens. Probably iphone = ~28-35mm wide-angle on 35mm film.

:ouch:

Dan_Brown

15th Jul 2019, 23:21

My message to the BA crew is this. Leave the Airshow type or stunt flying to the professionals. Do the job you're paid to do and don't risk the passengers in needless exhibitionism..if indeed, thats what they were upto. Eother that, or they did not have full control of the A/C. Don't know which is the most disconcerting..

Reminds me of the time AF took out the airport boundary fence on approach to St Maarten. Same message to them.

jurassicjockey

15th Jul 2019, 23:42

As the aircraft, an Embraer E190, whizzed past hoards of people with

It's horde not hoard when you're referring to a group of people. Unless you're collecting a collection of people. End of my spelling rant

krismiler

16th Jul 2019, 00:35

I’m assuming there’s no ILS on this runway ? Non precision approach followed by a visual segment with a short runway ahead soon sorts out the automation managers from the Pilots. Too many people rely on disconnecting the autopilot at the minima with the aircraft perfectly positioned for landing, drift angle and descent rate already set for them.

Taking away the guidance and asking some people to judge it by eye and seat of the pants seems to be asking too much. Definitely tea and biscuits with the fleet manager followed by a simulator session or two.

RickNRoll

16th Jul 2019, 00:54

Except that the distortion and perspective show that that is clearly a wide-angle lens. Probably iphone = ~28-35mm wide-angle on 35mm film.

:ouch:

The plane does look a bit like a banana. It still looks too low.

Oldshredder

16th Jul 2019, 00:58

There's nothing humble about your opinion Avgas Dinosaur. If you have never tried to report and write a newspaper story you have no right to criticize. If you ask three witnesses to a traffic accident you will get three different versions. A reporter's job is to try to figure out the truth from those different versions and then write it in an interesting fashion so the average reader with a 6th grade education can understand. I write as someone who was a reporter for 10+ years and an editor for 33 years covering everything from traffic accidents to murders to U.S. Presidential elections to finance and investments. Reporters have to have some knowledge about many topics, but rely on experts for detailed information, and they try hard to convey that information accurately. There good reporters and poor reporters, just as I suspect there are good pilots and poor pilots, and good editors and poor editors, but most are trying to do a job that is far more difficult than it appears to the best of their ability.

Chu Chu

16th Jul 2019, 01:06

The shadow appears almost directly beneath the plane -- shifted forward a small fraction of the fuselage length. Judging by the other shadows in the picture, that means its pretty low. Assuming no Photoshop, of course.

fdr

16th Jul 2019, 01:43

That is low throughout, and touchdown occurs at the threshold markings, before the numbers.

Winemaker

16th Jul 2019, 01:53

WingNut60

16th Jul 2019, 02:01

I really don't think this is a Photoshop job as there are three different video views of the same landing and they all coordinate as to the people on the wall. Pretty low, another two feet and some heads would be missing.

Two tyre diameters above the head of the lady in the green pants. Three diameters above the Armco barrier.

The wire mesh security fence appears to be in a ditch and less than 2 metres high

FlightDetent

16th Jul 2019, 03:32

Too low, too close.

I fell sorry for the guy because if you go wrong for the first time it is hard to see how far you'd actually trespassed.

Hence the reason some on this forum advocate there's no such thing as a short landing technique. Learn to make your normal landing not long, and then for all accounts do operate on the low and tight side of the margin band.

That way you keep a room for errors, those guys did not. Thankfully it bit only them, not the passengers or the airframe.

Wrong intentions, and even the masterful get caught: https://www.military.com/video/military-aircraft-operations/landing/nearly-catastrophic-c-160-last-flight/1913142753001

Ollie Onion

16th Jul 2019, 04:38

That is seriously low on profile in all of the videos, not far off a smoking wreck at the end. Ironically a low flat approach like his probably lengthens your landing distance.

Yaw String

16th Jul 2019, 05:35

Hahahah.."Telephoto lens".."Distortion"...WALOB!
Anybody who has operated into jungle strips knows what is going on here!
Was the pitch attitude photoshopped too!!!!
Btw,what flavour are the BA biscuits,that come with the tea!

Weapons Grade

16th Jul 2019, 06:19

Bearcat

16th Jul 2019, 06:57

Yes that’s a tea and biscuits landing.

Atlantic Explorer

16th Jul 2019, 07:23

Just as well a lorry or bus didn’t drive along at that moment! Would undoubtedly have struck it.

A and C

16th Jul 2019, 07:45

Having used this airport on many occasions flying a B738 I simply cant understand why that Barbie jet needed to be so low, my initial reaction is the image is distorted by distance use of a telephoto lens or photoshop.

Without doubt the airfield has its challenges especially the runway uphill gradient my give the illusion of being high on the approach but I would expect this to be covered in the briefing for the airfield and accounted for when flying the approach.

With the right amount of respect and hand flying skills the airfield is safe to use as long as it is approached with the attitude that if the picture does not look right you go around and make another approach.

DaveReidUK

16th Jul 2019, 08:06

Just as well a lorry or bus didn’t drive along at that moment!

True - you never know in Greece ...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x405/summer_holiday_bus_1f7cea864fe46b20a6a0f522a9f1fe667b4cd4ae. jpg

Maninthebar

16th Jul 2019, 08:14

True - you never know in Greece ...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x405/summer_holiday_bus_1f7cea864fe46b20a6a0f522a9f1fe667b4cd4ae. jpg

Ah, the LOVELY Una Stubbs. Sigh.

Auxtank

16th Jul 2019, 08:50

Yes that’s a tea and biscuits landing.

Nope. Its a tea - no biscuits - landing.

Might as well get these popular expressions correct.

763 jock

16th Jul 2019, 08:58

These clowns need to be shown the door. Go and hire something for showboating.

Bloody disgrace.

Hotel Tango

16th Jul 2019, 11:02

These clowns need to be shown the door. Go and hire something for showboating.

Wow, what an incredible statement. "Showboating"? Who says? Yes, they appear to be a little too low. Yes a GA might have been an option. However, I don't believe for a single moment that it was planned or an attempt at "showboating". For reasons unknown to us they appear to have got it wrong. I really wonder if the combination of the runway uphill gradient and the usual EMB rather exaggerated AOA had some bearing on this?

His dudeness

16th Jul 2019, 11:13

The "gentlemen" on here, especially Mr.767 jock have never made any mistake - or did they just fly in an era were not thousands for total p.... surrounding the airfields with cameras and smartphones ? Plus a press, which lustfully hangs these dudes out to dry without being ever held accountable for anything in their miserable lives... give the guys a sim lesson and case closed.

Auxtank

16th Jul 2019, 11:29

At the least it's a meeting to establish whether they genuinely got it wrong or it was a "Hold my beer and watch this..." moment.

Callsign Kilo

16th Jul 2019, 11:39

Could we maybe spare some defence for the PF here? I don’t profess to know the exact ins and out with this however could this be a result of training? Could this be a symptom of relatively unchallenging flying from ILS to ILS with almost exclusive reference to the flight director? 9/10 when you give someone with this sort of background a NPA to reasonably limited runway with little to no PAPI guidance, it isn’t going to go very well. The art of handling the final stages of an approach referencing pitch & thrust and eyeball mark one is somewhat lost on people. That’s something that’s needed to be addressed for considerable time now. Too many pilots don’t challenge themselves, allow themselves or are even allowed to be challenged. A symptom of modern airline flying that comes from the very top in many outfits.

I would also add that if this is simply an approach that got too low in error (rather than intention) then what was the PM doing?

Officer Kite

16th Jul 2019, 11:42

Could it be that they are used to landing in LCY where they try to touchdown as near the start as possible and something went wrong here and combined with the uphill slope it aggravated the situation?

It does look like the aircraft is struggling to maintain an acceptable glidepath and needs all the pitch it can get, but then again the embraers seem to have a high pitch angle even during 'normal' approaches. There is an unlimited list of potential causes for them ending up low and we may be able to learn something from it.

krismiler

16th Jul 2019, 12:28

They’ll pull the QAR and soon have the exact profile the aircraft flew and how far from the correct approach path it went. The flight data monitoring team may want to look closer at this particular airport to see if this is a one off, or if unstable approaches are happening too often and recommend corrective action.

OldnGrounded

16th Jul 2019, 12:33

. . . some time ago. I've seen photos and videos of low approaches and tourist-skimming landings for years. The first one in this video comes pretty darned close to scraping the tail on the boundary fence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWetojC0ul0

More examples:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=skiathos+low+landings

763 jock

16th Jul 2019, 12:35

Hopefully the AAIB will publish a report in the fullness of time. It should be reported by the operator as a serious incident.

The PAPI's are visible on the left side. Perhaps they weren't working.

JSI is longer than LCY. The crew must be well versed in what a short runway looks like.

Funny how all these very low approaches seem to occur on 02 at JSI.

FlightDetent

16th Jul 2019, 12:37

Could it be that they are used to landing in [...] where they try to touchdown as near the start as possible There's your recipe for disaster.

But in fact, regular operators onto short runways know much better than that. It is the rare visitor who might fall who the trap more easily.

As for the F/O's thoughts: my best guess is he might have been thinking really hard "is this the time I call for a G/A?" until it was pointless to make voice the concern.

Anybody fancy a bet it was two captains? :oh:

krismiler

16th Jul 2019, 12:51

The pictures and videos are reminiscent of the Asiana crash in San Francisco 6 years ago where they got too low but only realised this too late for corrective action to be effective. That aircraft came very close to cartwheeling and had that happened the death toll would have been horrendous.

DaveReidUK

16th Jul 2019, 13:02

Could it be that they are used to landing in LCY where they try to touchdown as near the start as possible and something went wrong here and combined with the uphill slope it aggravated the situation?

It might be worth noting that LCY-Skiathos is a seasonal route (3/4 rotations per week from late June to October). So pick a BA/CFE pilot at random and he/she likely won't have flown there often, if at all.

Meester proach

16th Jul 2019, 13:20

Yeah, that’s a bit saucy.
like it’s said above , dipping below the PAPis often makes it more floaty not less, like a stone skimming off the water...

no doubt their computations showed LDA as sufficient, IE crossing the threshold at 50’ and landing in the TDZ. I doubt it was really deliberate , can’t remember if the runway slopes up and gives a slightly strange picture ?

DaveReidUK

16th Jul 2019, 13:55

No doubt their computations showed LDA as sufficient, IE crossing the threshold at 50’ and landing in the TDZ.

There is a displaced threshold of 190' on 01 - so worth about 10' higher passing over the fence.

I doubt it was really deliberate , can’t remember if the runway slopes up and gives a slightly strange picture ?

Average up slope on 01 is about 0.8%, but it's not uniform along the length of the runway (apparently the tower can't see either THR).

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/677x281/skithos_rwy_01_12cfc576bee1339fcb7b3b00b9058165fcf9fe07.jpg

twochai

16th Jul 2019, 13:58

dipping below the PAPis often makes it more floaty not less

The reason is that the pilot's perspective from a lower approach makes the runway appear shorter (but wider). That's why STOL aircraft generally do steep approaches (up to 7.5 degrees) because the resulting mainwheel touchdown point is more accurate with less dispersion.

Lake1952

16th Jul 2019, 14:26

It might be worth noting that LCY-Skiathos is a seasonal route (3/4 rotations per week from late June to October). So pick a BA/CFE pilot at random and he/she likely won't have flown there often, if at all.

The Air Italy you tube clearly shows a PAPI on this runway. Experience at this particular airport shouldn't really matter if one adheres to basics IMO.

Cuillin Hills

16th Jul 2019, 14:45

Landing this direction at Skiathos isn’t particularly demanding - just need to get it stopped efficiently as the end of the runway is not in view (after touchdown) until a late stage.

Landing southerly at Skiathos is more demanding - particularly if there is an unforecast few knots of tailwind.

One of those “I am going to go-around unless I can land” airports.

Twiglet1

16th Jul 2019, 15:47

Apart from the flying, is there a boundary fence there? You know, the tall one with the spiky stuff on top.

A very low one, you only have to look at you tube for video's of SKG arrivals. Wonder what the OFDM will say

OldnGrounded

16th Jul 2019, 17:20

A very low one, you only have to look at you tube for video's of SKG arrivals. Wonder what the OFDM will say

If those videos are examples of typical landings in that direction on that runway, there should be some very interesting FDR downloads to analyze. Surely, all of this hasn't gone unnoticed by the industry while becoming nearly viral online. The Air Italy video has had 11 million views.

DaveReidUK

16th Jul 2019, 17:32

A very low one, you only have to look at you tube for video's of SKG arrivals.

I'd recommend searching for JSI (Skiathos), rather than SKG, unless you are particularly interested in what happens at Thessaloniki. :O

USERNAME_

16th Jul 2019, 17:33

I'd recommend searching for JSI (Skiathos), rather than SKG, unless you are particularly interested in what happens at Thessaloniki. :O

JSI might be better ;)

simmple

16th Jul 2019, 17:38

Auxtank

16th Jul 2019, 17:50

Why tea with or without biscuits.
looks to me what used to be called a visual approach, ok slightly flat but in the books before I packed it in there was no edict saying thou must follow ils, papi or anything else whilst doing so.
reading the above comments reminds me why I did pack it in.
loved being a pilot, hated being turned into an operator!

Slightly flat?
Not a tad low?
Like three tyre-widths above the barrier...low?

gearlever

16th Jul 2019, 18:01

Meester proach

16th Jul 2019, 19:53

Why tea with or without biscuits.
looks to me what used to be called a visual approach, ok slightly flat but in the books before I packed it in there was no edict saying thou must follow ils, papi or anything else whilst doing so.
reading the above comments reminds me why I did pack it in.
loved being a pilot, hated being turned into an operator!

you are having a laugh no ?
yes let’s ignore the GS, PAPis and anything else we have ( including judgement ) and squeak it across the hedge.
we can always get the twigs out the gear after .

Theres a “ bit low “, and then there is this .

L337

16th Jul 2019, 20:59

So many armchair pilots. So many opinions.

M.Mouse

16th Jul 2019, 21:06

BA has a monitoring system which picks up incidents which fall outside of pre-determined values.

I know for a fact that this approach is being looked at. There will be one of two outcomes. If it is found to be a common occurence i.e. low on the approach and landing short of the TDZ at JSI then further investigation will uncover the causes and the issues causing the problem will be addressed. Or if the pilots' performance was lacking then they will receive further training.

Either way the issue will be addressed. Like any other major airline that sort of approach and touchdown is neither common nor acceptable.

Hands up any commercial pilot who has never made a bad error of judgement.

Dan_Brown

16th Jul 2019, 21:18

My hands are down.

ExSp33db1rd

16th Jul 2019, 21:30

Hands up any commercial pilot who has never made a bad error of judgement

Having made a bad call on one occasion ..... no disaster resulted .... I wrote a letter of explanation and my reasoning to the then Flight Manager. He replied to the effect that if I never made a mistake in my career, I would be a better pilot than him.

MPN11

17th Jul 2019, 08:52

Wearing my ex-ATCO hat, a fair few of the videos [not just the BA] show aircraft doing nothing resembling a 3º approach. Some seem level at 100' or so a mile or more out from the threshold.

Dan_Brown

17th Jul 2019, 09:01

"That's why STOL aircraft generally do steep approaches (up to 7.5 degrees) because the resulting mainwheel touchdown point is more accurate with less dispersion."

This sums it up nicely.

I am of the opinion, showmanship is a contributory factor in a lot of these occurrences. Seen it myself at St Maarten. No road traffic barriers either = bad news.

fox niner

17th Jul 2019, 09:19

alland2012

17th Jul 2019, 10:15

Errr....why is that road there in the first place? What if I rent a double decker bus to drive around the island?
I bet my roof will be in the obstacle plain.
I have seen “tourists” blown away there by jet blast.

I've been to Skiathos many times, The road is necessary to link properties and businesses who are on that side of the Island. There are traffic lights in operation on the road by 01 runway threshold, but they are completely ignored by the locals.
As for the tourists, yes many have been blown across the road by the jet blast, last year someone was badly injured after being thrown onto the rocks in the bay and had to be transported to the mainland for urgent medical treatment.

FL370 Officeboy

17th Jul 2019, 10:35

The only thing you can be sure of is that the pilots would have received the absolute minimum training and exposure legally required to operate into this airfield

ve3id

17th Jul 2019, 10:44

Btw,what flavour are the BA biscuits,that come with the tea!

Hard tack!

Less Hair

17th Jul 2019, 10:45

......Tabasco

Dan_Brown

17th Jul 2019, 10:46

The only thing you can be sure of is that the pilots would have received the absolute minimum training and exposure legally required to operate into this airfield

Corporate greed, leads to commercial pressure, which is one of the most prevalent killers of them all. Even more so for the inexperienced, outside the rigid structure of a major airline.

oggers

17th Jul 2019, 11:53

If you have never tried to report and write a newspaper story you have no right to criticize.

Almost certainly the most absurd post in this thread.

ZeBedie

17th Jul 2019, 12:03

It's been a couple of years since I operated into JSI, but my recollection is that the PAPI's are unusable in sunlight.

Daily Dalaman Dave

17th Jul 2019, 12:54

It's been a couple of years since I operated into JSI, but my recollection is that the PAPI's are unusable in sunlight.

No they’re not, they’re perfectly visible.

Meester proach

17th Jul 2019, 14:24

So many armchair pilots. So many opinions.

And then some of us who actually fly jets and have flown into JSI. I thank my lucky stars I don’t do package flights to Greek airports in the middle of the night anymore. It’s hard work with often disruptive passengers.

Flocks

18th Jul 2019, 08:04

It is locator approach both side with minimum of 1600ft and around 5nm from threshold, so 3° flight path will get you there. R
is short but not really for a Emb 190 (I used to fly to much less, 1600m is not issue for the Emb 190)

quickturnaround

18th Jul 2019, 16:57

Probably the PF was seeing 4 green lights on the papi, the red lights reflecting in the grass. There is absolutely no need to land at Skiathos without being on the papi. Anyway all flat approaches used more runway than the stable one. This particular chap should revise his short runway landing technique, it is appalling.

cessnapete

18th Jul 2019, 17:54

MPN11

18th Jul 2019, 18:00

How do you know it was a chap??
Cue thread diversion and increase in popcorn sales.

Oh, please :ugh: :uhoh:

Herod

18th Jul 2019, 20:24

Probably the PF was seeing 4 green lights on the papi,

Err?? I know I've been retired a long time, but green lights on the PAPI?

Flap40

18th Jul 2019, 20:35

Err?? I know I've been retired a long time, but green lights on the PAPI?
If you get low enough so the light shines through the grass.......

On another tangent I seem to remember when there was that very low 747 approach at St Maarten by KLM the PAPI's were said to be giving a lower than expected slope. How accurate are Greek PAPI's?

Meester proach

18th Jul 2019, 21:50

Err?? I know I've been retired a long time, but green lights on the PAPI?

come on, green means you are high enough, red means you re too low....

krismiler

19th Jul 2019, 02:58

Pink can appear if you get right on the angle where red and white transition.

alland2012

19th Jul 2019, 09:32

Question for any of you guys that have flown the JSI Route, I seem to recall someone once telling me only the Captain can land there,which I found odd. Is there any truth in that ?

Meester proach

19th Jul 2019, 16:36

Question for any of you guys that have flown the JSI Route, I seem to recall someone once telling me only the Captain can land there,which I found odd. Is there any truth in that ?

The list of runways that are “ captain only “, is a company specific requirement. Places like Innsbruck, functual would for the Bill. Can’t remember if JSI was for us.

Doors to Automatic

19th Jul 2019, 16:38

I'd recommend searching for JSI (Skiathos), rather than SKG, unless you are particularly interested in what happens at Thessaloniki. :O

SKG occasionally offers a little gem too!

https://youtu.be/4epFkTuj79E

Vokes55

19th Jul 2019, 17:43

Question for any of you guys that have flown the JSI Route, I seem to recall someone once telling me only the Captain can land there,which I found odd. Is there any truth in that ?

For most, if not all, airlines, it’s not only “captains only”, it’s captains that have been specifically trained to land (and take off) here, including an airport visit with a trainer.

So no, it’s not somebody who’s used to flying ILS to ILS and can’t handle a NPA as somebody suggested earlier.

The upslope on the runway does give the impression of being high on 01, combined with the short runway can probably contribute to being low on final approach. I don’t think any pilot in 2019 is going to intentionally fly low into a place where they know their actions are being filmed and will be on social media before they’ve set the parking brake. If there was any form of “showboating” involved, it would almost certainly been driven by the desire to make the intersection turn-off, rather than to intentionally fly low on the approach.

Armchair pilots continue...

DaveReidUK

19th Jul 2019, 17:51

If there was any form of “showboating” involved, it would almost certainly been driven by the desire to make the intersection turn-off, rather than to intentionally fly low on the approach.

A quick look at instances of that flight from LCY landing at JSI on FR24 since the service resumed this summer would suggest that around half of arrivals (including the flight in question) make the A3 exit to the apron, with the other 50% or so rolling to the end to turn and backtrack.

Doors to Automatic

19th Jul 2019, 18:43

A quick look at instances of that flight from LCY landing at JSI on FR24 since the service resumed this summer would suggest that around half of arrivals (including the flight in question) make the A3 exit to the apron, with the other 50% or so rolling to the end to turn and backtrack.

Risking the craft and all on board to make a turn-off doesn’t seem like a sensible strategy to me, especially as a relatively small aircraft like this can presumably turn around at any point along the runway once stopped.

With almost 50% of the airline’s entire movements landing at LCY, I am quite surprised this airline had one of its aircraft end up in this position. It is not as if they are lacking in experience of short-field ops!

pattern_is_full

19th Jul 2019, 18:53

Is this the same airport where the 757 tried to do a mid-runway "Y"-turn using reverse to avoid a full backtaxi sometime recently? I can't keep all the Greek islands clear in my mind.

DaveReidUK

19th Jul 2019, 19:05

Is this the same airport where the 757 tried to do a mid-runway "Y"-turn using reverse to avoid a full backtaxi sometime recently? I can't keep all the Greek islands clear in my mind.

Yes, a TOM 757 in June 2017.

Dan_Brown

19th Jul 2019, 21:57

Risking the craft and all on board to make a turn-off doesn’t seem like a sensible strategy to me, especially as a relatively small aircraft like this can presumably turn around at any point along the runway once stopped.

With almost 50% of the airline’s entire movements landing at LCY, I am quite surprised this airline had one of its aircraft end up in this position. It is not as if they are lacking in experience of short-field ops!

Seems like a load of rough pilots. Hard on A/C, therefore expensive. Makes me wonder how they treat their partners? Rough I expect, instead of gentle and with respect.

quickturnaround

20th Jul 2019, 08:52

The controler also lives on the other site, closing the road would mean nobody would man the tower😱

krautland

20th Jul 2019, 17:49

In this instance selective use of a telephoto lens!!

That is very clearly not a telephoto but a wide-angle lens. The distortion is telling to anyone who isn't a total amateur.
Probably a Gopro.

DaveReidUK

20th Jul 2019, 18:27

That is very clearly not a telephoto but a wide-angle lens. The distortion is telling to anyone who isn't a total amateur.
Probably a Gopro.

See post #6.

Alpine Flyer

20th Jul 2019, 19:37

With almost 50% of the airline’s entire movements landing at LCY, I am quite surprised this airline had one of its aircraft end up in this position. It is not as if they are lacking in experience of short-field ops!

LCY and JSI are not really similar airports apart from being "short". The steep approach into LCY is an ILS which is flown to a quite strict procedure while it's more or less eyeballs and PAPI into JSI and the approach angle and visuals are quite different.

I wonder whether the aircraft had a HGS.

Wickerbill

24th Jul 2019, 07:13

I'll take seriously comments from drivers who have actually flown the JSI approach and, frankly, nobody else. Its tricky to say the least and there is no terminal space so timing is important hence a few unorthodox activities... The whole thing is made more spectacular because you can walk or drive right past the threshold, so its a spotters / youtubers paradise.

Dan_Brown

24th Jul 2019, 09:21

Fair comment.

If the third party risks are that high, as you seem to be hinting at, why is your company allowing you to operate into such an airport?

Joe le Taxi

24th Jul 2019, 09:28

If the third party risks are that high and why increase the third party risks by flying closer to them than is predicated? (And yes I've flown to JSI).

ManaAdaSystem

25th Jul 2019, 06:12

Been there several times. FL 40, full reverse and an early touchdown. It’s all eyeballs. Xwind/turbulence can complicate matters.
This aircraft came in a bit low and made an early touchdown. The video shows this, but still people insist a flat approach will increase your landing distance. It may, but it’s not a fact.

3Greens

25th Jul 2019, 09:54

A flat approach has potential to increase landing distance only because the pilot tends to flare using the same technique as a normal approach.
if the nose is already higher than on a normal approach, then raising the nose in the usual way would lead to a higher AOA and a potential float.
its easier to imagine it in reverse on a steep approach. On a steep approach a normal flare would lead to a firm touchdown and reduced landing distance
as the energy is dissipated by virtue of the heavy landing.