Here's an article about the 1985 American engine separation with a reference to the earlier 1974 National incident which was also near ELP.
National Airlines lore says that the flight attendant came running to the cockpit and said 'we've lost an engine!' One of the pilots said, 'yeah, we know, we're shutting it down'. The F/A said 'no you're not, the f***ing engine fell off!' Years later I flew N4736 out of TXL with another carrier not knowing its engine history.
ICE BLAMED IN LOSS OF JETLINER`S ENGINE
Gary Washburn, Transportation writer
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
April 18, 1985
Airline industry sources theorized Wednesday that a large chunk of ice that formed on the fuselage of an American Airlines (https://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/business/transportation-industry/air-transportation-industry/american-airlines-PLENT000002-topic.html) Boeing (https://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/business/manufacturing-engineering/aerospace-manufacturing/boeing-ORCRP017215-topic.html) 727 crashed into one of the plane`s engines, causing the 3,000-pound device to plunge to the ground.
The jet, with 90 people aboard, was flying Tuesday from Dallas-Ft. Worth International Airport to San Diego`s Lindbergh Field when the incident occurred. The plane landed safely in San Diego about 45 minutes later with no injuries.
A drain connected to a lavatory is on the forward portion of the right fuselage of 727s and water is supposed to evaporate as it flows out, sources said. But sometimes the water turns to ice, which builds in size.
After becoming too heavy to adhere to the plane`s surface, sources speculated, the ice chunk broke off, flying rearward into an engine located near the tail on the side of the fuselage.Spokesmen for Boeing Commercial Airplane Co. said that bolts connecting the two fuselage engines on the three-engine 727 are designed to shear ''under certain conditions'' so that damage is minimized and the plane`s ability to fly is not impaired.
Tom Cole, a Boeing spokesman, said an ''engine seizure'' or abrupt stop would create a ''tremendous torque or wrenching effect'' capable of breaking off the connecting bolts.
An engine seizure could be caused by ingestion of foreign material, Boeing officials said.
If bolts did not have the ability to shear, the engine could take a portion of the fuselage with it before falling off the plane, Cole said.According to unconfirmed reports, the engine that separated from the American jet was found on the ground near Denim [sic - probably Deming - Airbubba], N.M., at about noon Chicago time Wednesday. Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (https://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics-government/government/government-departments/national-transportation-safety-board-ORGOV000319-topic.html) were investigating the incident.
Recalling the loud noise and violent shaking that accompanied the engine loss, passenger John N. Smith said, ''I thought I was dead.''
Smith, of El Centro, Calif., said he was finishing his onboard lunch of chicken Mexicana, Spanish rice and string beans at the time of the incident.
''I thought, `What a terrible last meal.` . . . I figured I had three minutes to live, so I ought to enjoy it,'' he said. ''I finished my chocolate brownie and milk.''
Smith said that passengers spent the remainder of the flight ''listening for any strange noises.''
Another passenger, Audrey Ward, said, ''There was a tremendous explosion
--it was like a great big bang--and the whole plane just shuddered violently.
''The lights all came on and the (oxygen) masks started dropping down. My first impression was that we had hit another airplane.''
Industry sources said that ice ingestion was responsible for the separation of an engine on a National Airlines 727 over El Paso, Tex., in 1974. After discovering the cause, federal officials ordered a redesign of the drain to prevent a reoccurrence.
An airline industry official, who believes ice caused Tuesday`s incident, said investigators probably will seek to determine whether the modification was not effective or whether it was not made on the American plane.
Cole said that 727s are able to fly with only two engines in operation.
The pilot and crew of the American plane, Flight 199, knew that one of the craft`s engines had failed but were unaware it had fallen off until inspecting the craft after landing in San Diego, airline officials said.
At the time of the incident, ''the captain went through the normal procedure to cut power to that engine and the airplane continued to function normally in all respects, '' said Joe Stroop, an American spokesman. ''In the captain`s judgment, it was safe to continue on to San Diego.''
The captain told the passengers that there was an engine problem but no one on the plane knew the engine was gone, Stroop said.
From the NTSB archives:
National Transportation Safety Board Aviation Incident Final Report
Location: LAS CRUCES, NM Incident Number: LAX85IA206
Date & Time: 04/16/1985, 1137 MST
Registration: N718AA
Aircraft: BOEING 727-227
Aircraft Damage: Minor Defining Event: Injuries: 89 None Flight Conducted Under: Part 121: Air Carrier - Scheduled
Analysis
WHILE CRUISING AT FLT LEVEL 350 IN CLEAR SMOOTH AIR, A LOUD NOISE WAS HEARD, ACCOMPANIED BY A SEVERE JOLT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE CABIN, AS THE NUMBER 3 END SEPARATED FROM ITS MOUNTS. SUBSEQUENT INVESTIGATION DISCLOSED THAT THE FORWARD LAVATORY WAS LEAKING DEODORANT FLUID AND WATER. DEODORANT STAINS EXISTED ALONG THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE FUSELAGE, & WERE SUBSEQUENTLY IDENTIFIED ON THE NUMBER 3 ENGINE NOSE COWL & INLET NOSE CONE. ALL BUT 6 OF THE FIRST STAGE FAN BLADES WERE RECOVERED AT THE ENG IMPACT SITE, & THESE 6 BLADES WERE LOCATED WITHIN A 180 DEGREE SEGMENT OF THE FAN. LEAKAGE OF THE LAVATORY WASTE DRAIN VALVE WAS THE RESULT OF A DAMAGED 'O' RING SEAL. LEAKAGE OF THE DUMP VALVE WAS THE RESULT OF DISBONDING OF A RUBBER BOOT ON ITS SHAFT.
Probable Cause and Findings
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident to be:
Findings
Occurrence #1: AIRFRAME/COMPONENT/SYSTEM FAILURE/MALFUNCTION Phase of Operation: CRUISE - NORMAL
Findings 1. (C) WATER AND WASTE SYSTEM - LEAK 2. (F) MAINTENANCE,SERVICE BULLETIN/LETTER - NOT ISSUED - MANUFACTURER 3. (F) INSUFFICIENT STANDARDS/REQUIREMENTS,MANUFACTURER - MANUFACTURER 4. (F) FLUID,WATER - FROZEN 5. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - TEMPERATURE EXTREMES ---------
Occurrence #2: ENGINE TEARAWAY Phase of Operation: CRUISE - NORMAL
Findings 6. (F) ENGINE ASSEMBLY - SEPARATION 7. (F) ENGINE INSTALLATION,SUSPENSION MOUNTS - OVERLOAD
Factual Information
Pilot Information Certificate: Airline Transport Age: 49, Male Airplane Rating(s): Multi-engine Land Seat Occupied: Left Other Aircraft Rating(s): None Restraint Used: Seatbelt, Shoulder harness Instrument Rating(s): Airplane Second Pilot Present: Yes Instructor Rating(s): None Toxicology Performed: No Medical Certification: Class 1 Valid Medical--w/ waivers/lim. Last FAA Medical Exam: 11/19/1984 Occupational Pilot: Last Flight Review or Equivalent: Flight Time: 12470 hours (Total, all aircraft), 6762 hours (Total, this make and model), 124 hours (Last 90 days, all aircraft), 3 hours (Last 24 hours, all aircraft)
Aircraft and Owner/Operator Information Aircraft Make: BOEING Registration: N718AA Model/Series: 727-227 727-227 Aircraft Category: Airplane Year of Manufacture: Amateur Built: No Airworthiness Certificate: Transport Serial Number: 20611 Landing Gear Type: Retractable - Tricycle Seats: 162 Date/Type of Last Inspection: 04/15/1985, AAIP Certified Max Gross Wt.: 178000 lbs Time Since Last Inspection: 5 Hours Engines: 3 Turbo Fan Airframe Total Time: 36704 Hours Engine Manufacturer: P&W ELT: Not installed Engine Model/Series: JT8D-9A Registered Owner: AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC. Rated Power: 14500 lbs Operator: AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC. Operating Certificate(s) Held: Flag carrier (121)
Meteorological Information and Flight Plan Conditions at Accident Site: Visual Conditions Condition of Light: Day Observation Facility, Elevation: DMN, 4309 ft msl Distance from Accident Site: 30 Nautical Miles Observation Time: 1150 MST Direction from Accident Site: 272° Lowest Cloud Condition: Scattered / 8000 ft agl Visibility 60 Miles Lowest Ceiling: Broken / 12000 ft agl Visibility (RVR): 0 ft Wind Speed/Gusts: 6 knots / Turbulence Type Forecast/Actual: / Wind Direction: 230° Turbulence Severity Forecast/Actual: / Altimeter Setting: 30 inches Hg Temperature/Dew Point: 28°C / -2°C Precipitation and Obscuration: Departure Point: DALLAS-FT WORTH, TX (DFW) Type of Flight Plan Filed: IFR Destination: SAN DIEGO, CA (SAN) Type of Clearance: IFR Departure Time: 1025 MST Type of Airspace: Class E
Airport Information Airport: LAS CRUCES (LRU) Runway Surface Type: Airport Elevation: 0 ft Runway Surface Condition: Runway Used: 0 IFR Approach: None Runway Length/Width: VFR Approach/Landing: None
Wreckage and Impact Information Crew Injuries: 8 None Aircraft Damage: Minor Passenger Injuries: 81 None Aircraft Fire: None Ground Injuries: N/A Aircraft Explosion: None Total Injuries: 89 None Latitude, Longitude:
Administrative Information Investigator In Charge (IIC): A L CRAWFORD Adopted Date: Additional Participating Persons: WARREN V WANDEL; FORT WORTH, TX R. J HIGHTOWER; TULSA, OK DON HOLLIMAN; TX
Publish Date: Investigation Docket: NTSB accident and incident dockets serve as permanent archival information for the NTSB’s investigations. Dockets released prior to June 1, 2009 are publicly available from the NTSB’s Record Management Division at
[email protected], or at 800-877-6799. Dockets released after this date are available at http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/.
The NTSB entry for the National incident:
NTSB Identification: FTW74IF07714 CFR Part 121 Scheduled operation of NATIONAL AIRLINES INCAircraft: BOEING 727, registration: N4736----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA
F S M/N PURPOSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4-0007 74/4/30 NR.SIERRA BLANCA,TEX BOEING 727 CR- 0 0 8 SCHED DOM PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE
TIME - 1710 N4736 PX- 0 0 89 53, 13429 TOTAL HOURS,
DAMAGE-MINOR OT- 0 0 0 4002 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT
RATED.
CLASSIFIED AS INCIDENT
OPERATOR - NATIONAL AIRLINES,INC
DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION LAST ENROUTE STOP
SAN DIEGO,CALIF MIAMI,FLA NEW ORLEANS,LA
TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
ENGINE FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION IN FLIGHT: NORMAL CRUISE
ENGINE TEARAWAY IN FLIGHT: NORMAL CRUISE
PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
PERSONNEL - MAINTENANCE,SERVICING,INSPECTION: IMPROPERLY SERVICED AIRCRAFT (GROUND CREW)
INSTRUMENTS/EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES - MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT: OTHER
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - IMPROPERLY SECURED
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - LEAK/LEAKAGE
POWERPLANT - MISCELLANEOUS: FOREIGN OBJECT DAMAGE
POWERPLANT - ENGINE STRUCTURE: MOUNT AND VIBRATION ISOLATORS
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - OVERLOAD FAILURE
FACTOR(S)
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - SEPARATION IN FLIGHT
COMPLETE POWER LOSS - COMPLETE ENGINE FAILURE/FLAMEOUT-1 ENGINE
EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES - PRECAUTIONARY LANDING ON AIRPORT
SUSPECTED OR KNOWN AIRCRAFT DAMAGE
REMARKS- FLUID LK FM R FWD LAV TANK DRAIN DONUT PLUG.IMPACT DMG R LDG LT,HUMAN WASTE ON #3 ENG NOSE CONE.
Full narrative is not available