Do I need a logbook ?

[asmith474]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but i'm unsure on the matter. I just started my PPL training with the goal of eventually completing the full f-ATPL. I'm two lessons in and my instructor hasn't mentioned anything about the logbook. Won't I need a logbook as proof of my 200h when applying to the airlines ?
Lastly can someone recommend me a good logbook, digital or paperback?
Thanks

[Pilot DAR]

Yes, if you are receiving qualifying instruction, you sure want to be logging it in your personal pilot logbook! For a short period, you can recreate entries which have not been made and should have been, by going back the the flying school records, though that is not something which should be expected months or years later. There is not reason to fly as a student receiving training, solo, or PIC, without recording that experience for future qualification. Very certainly your instructor should have provided you with a pilot training record following the first training flight. Follow that up with he/she....

[On Track]

In every jurisdiction where I have flown it is a legal requirement to keep a logbook.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's not that unusual that schools don't bother to mention a logbook for the first few lessons, as it's easy enough to retrospectively enter the first few flights from school records.

If you're going professional, I'd buy something labelled as either "FAA Professional" or "EASA compliant professional". For example...

https://transair.co.uk/pilot-supplies/log-books/jeppesen-professional-log-book-non-easa

https://www.pooleys.com/shop/pooleys/pooleys-easa-part-fcl-personal-flying-log-book/

https://www.afeonline.com/shop/afe-professional-pilot-s-logbook.html

(Those three links probably represent the most popular FAA logbook, and the two most popular EASA logbooks for professional pilots. It's really not a problem switching between EASA and FAA without changing logbook - but it's probably easiest to start as you mean to go on. That means also commencing an electronic backup - there are various commercial products to do that, or write your own; just google that topic and you'll find plenty of options and recommendations.)

Incidentally, I used one of these for 20 years (before eventually designing my own) with a mixture of CAA, JAA, EASA and FAA licences - and no great problems beyond having to change a few column headings manually... I still like it.

https://www.pooleys.com/shop/pooleys/pooleys-non-jar-commercial-pilots-log-book

G

[rarelyathome]

The main thing is to keep an accurate record of your flying. In the early days, ask your instruct to talk you through how to complete the log properly and make sure your logbook agrees with what your training record says; it’ll save you a lot of hassle when it’s time to apply for your first licence. I prefer an electronic logbook as it is really easy to generate reports for the various totals often required by either the Authority or employer. There are plenty around that are fully compliant and accepted by the authority.

Finally, if you stick with the paper version, I would recommend recording your time in decimal (every 6 mins is 0.1) as it makes totalling the columns at the end of each page much easier.

[asmith474]

The main thing is to keep an accurate record of your flying. In the early days, ask your instruct to talk you through how to complete the log properly and make sure your logbook agrees with what your training record says; it’ll save you a lot of hassle when it’s time to apply for your first licence. I prefer an electronic logbook as it is really easy to generate reports for the various totals often required by either the Authority or employer. There are plenty around that are fully compliant and accepted by the authority.

Finally, if you stick with the paper version, I would recommend recording your time in decimal (every 6 mins is 0.1) as it makes totalling the columns at the end of each page much easier.

Ok thanks for the info. I bought a basic log book for my training but i think im going to use a digital one as well. Any recommendations for a lower budget ?

[ApolloHeli]

Ok thanks for the info. I bought a basic log book for my training but i think im going to use a digital one as well. Any recommendations for a lower budget ?
One I use for free as a backup of my hardcopy logbook is mccPilotlog. I cannot post links yet but just google it - it's a downloadable / offline computer software.

It works on Mac and PC. I also use it to double-check there have been no counting errors in my paper logbook.

[Sam Rutherford]

In every jurisdiction where I have flown it is a legal requirement to keep a logbook.

Being pedantic, it isn't. You only need a logbook if you intend to rely on the hours you have flown to prove something...

Of course, 99.999999% of pilots need those hours to prove something - thus the pedantic comment!

[On Track]

Well you live in a different jurisdiction. I have no idea what the rules are there.

[Jhieminga]

mccPilotlog is not supported anymore, the business is moving over to a new version, Crewlounge Pilotlog, see here for more about this: https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/583226-best-electronic-pilot-logbook-9.html

I'm on mccPilotlog myself and wondering whether to switch to something else entirely as I'm not that impressed with the new offer. I wouldn't recommend getting mccPilotlog now as the app will not be updated.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Being pedantic, it isn't. You only need a logbook if you intend to rely on the hours you have flown to prove something...

Of course, 99.999999% of pilots need those hours to prove something - thus the pedantic comment!
That is in the USA.

Most of the rest of the world require all flights as crew in any capacity to be logged.

G

[18greens]

If I was going to start again I would get two professional log books, fill them in in parallel and I would keep an excel backup. Also top tip write your name on the top and bottom across the ends of the pages. That way when you are trying to find your log book in a pile of 25 other identical ones you don't need to open every book.

The reason for two paper logs is you occasionally have to send your log book to the caa. I always send my number 2 logbook. They haven't failed to send it back yet, but if they did I still have the number 1 logbook.

The reason for the excel copy is it makes adding up the type time soooo much easier. I'd be wary of commercially available electronic log books. When they fold what happens? I've used them blissfully in the past until I upgrade from windows 7 to 10 and then you find it's not supported on 10.

It all sounds an arse but when you pay £400+ per hour make sure you don't lose any of it. Enjoy your flying.

[Dan Winterland]

When going to job interviews, it's best to have a paper logbook. And not one that looks like the whole thing was written up the week before!

[Genghis the Engineer]

If I was going to start again I would get two professional log books, fill them in in parallel and I would keep an excel backup. Also top tip write your name on the top and bottom across the ends of the pages. That way when you are trying to find your log book in a pile of 25 other identical ones you don't need to open every book.

The reason for two paper logs is you occasionally have to send your log book to the caa. I always send my number 2 logbook. They haven't failed to send it back yet, but if they did I still have the number 1 logbook.

The reason for the excel copy is it makes adding up the type time soooo much easier. I'd be wary of commercially available electronic log books. When they fold what happens? I've used them blissfully in the past until I upgrade from windows 7 to 10 and then you find it's not supported on 10.

It all sounds an arse but when you pay £400+ per hour make sure you don't lose any of it. Enjoy your flying.


I have a paper logbook as primary, and electronic (written by me in Excel as none of the commercial products suited my personal needs) as secondary. When I need to send anything to the CAA, they get a printout of the Excel logbook (printed on A3 it works out about 100hrs per side of paper), with my signature on the first and last pages stating "I certify that this is a true copy of my original logbook". I then shred the printout once they've sent it back with my licence.

They've always accepted it. The Excel logbook is backed up to two different places automatically as part of my normal data backup.

G

[Pilot DAR]

I make no assertion as to what any regulator requires or accepts. However, reading the Canadian regulations leads one to the understanding that an acceptable log of piloting experience is required to be presented when applying for an additional piloting privilege ('makes sense to me). Since the advent of Execl, that's been my sole format for recording my flying experience, and it is of course backed up. When I presented myself for a fixed wing CPL, I took my notebook computer, and showed across the counter, my Excel pilot log. I offered to sort and print it however the inspector wished, and he kindly declined having it on paper, seeing I had it, and recording totals on his form seemed to be enough. When I did my PPLH, I did maintain a separate pilot training record (PTR) log, and was told that when I submitted it for my license, it would not be returned. I haven't maintained a paper logbook since 1987.

[Tinstaafl]

I keep a paper logbook (Australian style) and starting this year, an additional electronic one. (www.myflightbook.com). I've used my Oz logbooks for Oz, US, & UK ATPLs without any problems. When I started the electronic one I took the time (months) to enter every single flight over 36 years and nearly 9k hours into it.

Starting a US airline job this year I presented both the paper and printed out versions.

re why myflightbook.com? I wanted any electronic log to have a downloadable copy that was readable by damn near anything. This does Excel spreadsheet and comma delimited text. It also does a large range of country specific formats - and is free! But feel free to donate, like I did.
​​​

[18greens]

I have a paper logbook as primary, and electronic (written by me in Excel as none of the commercial products suited my personal needs) as secondary. When I need to send anything to the CAA, they get a printout of the Excel logbook (printed on A3 it works out about 100hrs per side of paper), with my signature on the first and last pages stating "I certify that this is a true copy of my original logbook". I then shred the printout once they've sent it back with my licence.

They've always accepted it. The Excel logbook is backed up to two different places automatically as part of my normal data backup.

G

Good to know they are happy to accept an excel output. I might apply some thought to creating one from scratch. The paper one is a pain to add up and carries forwards errors in the subtotals.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's a remarkably satisfying thing to do.

G

[18greens]

It's a remarkably satisfying thing to do.

G
I've started! Any tips on structure, column headings etc....How to accommodate Sim time.

[Prop swinger]

CAP 804 extract on logging time attached.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've started! Any tips on structure, column headings etc....How to accommodate Sim time.

Well I'll tell you how I've done it; whether that is good or bad I'm unsure - but it works for me.

The main spreadsheet has three pages: logbook, calculations, and summary.

Logbook page looks, well, rather like a logbook. First columns are Date (hidden column turning that into a digital date), type, reg, generic type (useful as I'm not interested in hours in C172Ns, but I am interested in time in C172s), PiC, Other seat, from, to, details, take-offs, landings, approaches, departure time (hh:mm format), arrival time (ditto), hidden column calculating flight time as a decimal, visible columns showing hours and minutes separately (just works better that way in Excel), Then I have multiple columns for the usual totals - and in Excel you can obviously have as many as you want, rather than the limitations of your paper logbook. In my case, my paper logbook has 12 columns but my electronic logbook has 20 - it's useful to keep track of things like FAA X-country and high performance time, but no need to clutter up my main logbook with it.

I find that having values in the columns as hours to 3 decimal places works well as you get no rounding errors, totals are all automated at the top of the page with a simple formula to turn that n.nnn hours to hours and minutes. Select all of that as a formatted "print area" to make it easy to print out. To the right I have various automated columns that keep track of things like Cessna hours, single seat hours, vintage taildragger hours as I occasionally get asked these things and it doesn't need to be visible in the main body.

Second page is calculations - it works out things like hours on each generic type, approaches in the last 182 days for my FAA IR, take-offs and landings in the last 90 days... That isn't visible to anybody but me and is happily scruffy but functional.

Third page is formatted as a 1 page of A4 to be printed out as a full logbook summary. From it you have "at a glance" hours in my main types, classes, and roles (e.g. instructor, tailwheel, single seaters, Piper singles), Separate FAA and EASA totals as they reckon things differently, dates of my medical, CofV, BFRs, rating expiries, visa and vaccination expiries with it automated to turn dates running out in the next 3 months orange, and expired red. A couple of boxes with manually updated / entered information like aeroplanes I've flown first flights on, licence numbers and ratings, dates of exam passes, ejector seat time - stuff that belongs in a flying CV (which in effect that page is) but not in the main tabulated logbook part. Essentially everything there

Thing is, create something simple that works, start populating it, then start complicating it with the stuff that matters to you. But a good robust basic structure from the start helps a lot. Use Excel's automation as much as you can.so that ideally you just enter data and it all ripples through - and can tweak the code from time to time when you want it to work out something new.

G

[18greens]

I have a paper logbook as primary, and electronic (written by me in Excel as none of the commercial products suited my personal needs) as secondary. When I need to send anything to the CAA, they get a printout of the Excel logbook (printed on A3 it works out about 100hrs per side of paper), with my signature on the first and last pages stating "I certify that this is a true copy of my original logbook". I then shred the printout once they've sent it back with my licence.

They've always accepted it. The Excel logbook is backed up to two different places automatically as part of my normal data backup.

G
When you send it off to the CAA do you print subtotals on every page or just rely on the grand total at the top of the first page?

[Genghis the Engineer]

When you send it off to the CAA do you print subtotals on every page or just rely on the grand total at the top of the first page?
Grand Total, plus I send them the broken down summary 1-pager.

G

[18greens]

Grand Total, plus I send them the broken down summary 1-pager.

G


Well , it took 2 months. Now it's done, just about to send it off to the CAA to test your theory...

As you say it was a satisfying experience and going forward I'm tempted just to stick with Excel. The paper logbook seems quite dated by comparison. Thanks for the tips.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Personally I'm very happy to keep running the two in parallel.

Glad I was able to help.

G

[18greens]

Personally I'm very happy to keep running the two in parallel.

Glad I was able to help.

G
Sending off the Excel worked. The odd thing was that they didn't send it back, just the new licence.Don't know if that was an oversight.

[Bergerie1]

Not only is it a legal requirement, but it is useful in later life. I have been writing, in my old age, stories about various aviation experiences and have found old log books invaluable to jog the memory. Unfortunately, after several house moves and between countries too, I have lost two of them and miss most dreadfully the dates, times and notes therein.

[effortless]

My pa gave me a logbook at the age of 7 when he sent me up in an Auster for a flip. The pilot signed it with exercises noted.