Don’t make a wrong turn in PEK!

[ManaAdaSystem]

The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:

. Category of Taxiing Deviations and Corresponding Measures (I) Category I – (Runway incursion)
1. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway and disturbs other flights’ landing and taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of twelve (12) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.
2. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway but does not disturb other flights’ landing or taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of eight (8) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.

(II) Category II - (Occupying a taxiway but not affecting runway operation)
1. Airlines whose aircraft enter into an incorrect taxiway and leads to a head-on encounter with another aircraft will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row.
2. Airlines whose large-size aircraft enters a lower-grade taxiway without authorization will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row
3. Airlines whose aircraft enters an incorrect taxiway and results in a temporary traffic control or taxiing avoidance (according to the record made by air traffic controller) will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of four (4) weeks in a row
(III) Category III – (Taking a wrong turn or taxiing past the designated position)
For aircrafts taking a wrong turn while taxiing or taxiing past the designated position, based on the actual situation, aircrafts operating the involved flight (by Flight number) will be required to park in remote stands for three (3) weeks in a row.

[FrequentSLF]

The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:

. Category of Taxiing Deviations and Corresponding Measures (I) Category I – (Runway incursion)
1. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway and disturbs other flights’ landing and taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of twelve (12) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.
2. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway but does not disturb other flights’ landing or taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of eight (8) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.

(II) Category II - (Occupying a taxiway but not affecting runway operation)
1. Airlines whose aircraft enter into an incorrect taxiway and leads to a head-on encounter with another aircraft will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row.
2. Airlines whose large-size aircraft enters a lower-grade taxiway without authorization will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row
3. Airlines whose aircraft enters an incorrect taxiway and results in a temporary traffic control or taxiing avoidance (according to the record made by air traffic controller) will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of four (4) weeks in a row
(III) Category III – (Taking a wrong turn or taxiing past the designated position)
For aircrafts taking a wrong turn while taxiing or taxiing past the designated position, based on the actual situation, aircrafts operating the involved flight (by Flight number) will be required to park in remote stands for three (3) weeks in a row.
What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.

[RubberDogPoop]

What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.

This guy's having a laugh right???

[MPN11]

I hope I'm reading this correctly ... the penalty is having to use remote lands instead of airbridges, as opposed to actually being parked up [grounded].

[KABOY]

Last time I was there was told by tower to expedite the runway, which I did. Taking the hi-speed at 40 knots we were handed to ground once well clear who told us to make a 135 degree turn onto a taxiway that went rapidly past us.

BOOM! Category 3 violation.

Next time I will slow down and let the tower abuse me for failing to expedite quick enough, no violation for that I can see.

[FlightDetent]

Next time I will slow down and let the tower abuse me for failing to expedite quick enough, no violation for that I can see. Correct. Part of the line-training, and to show you are familiar enough to fly unsupervised, is learning how and which ATC instructions to "partially comply with".

[TPE Flyer]

China Airlines is screwed then. Even after a precise detailed taxi briefing, they still get it wrong on a regular basis.
Getting harder and harder to keep blaming Expats when we aren't even the flight deck.

[Doug E Style]

I wonder what the penalty would be for driving your aircraft into a building.

[Therealmoose10]

[QUOTE=ManaAdaSystem;10487566][left]The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:
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Can you share the source of that statement? Any documentation to review?

[His dudeness]

What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.

I´ve been to China only twice. 2 very different experiences, first time everything ATC wise went absolutely fine. Second time after landing we were "vectored" around the airport by ground control in barely audible/understandable english and the gentleman giving the instructions had our position plus were we should go mixed up. Add to this, night, rain and the fact that my aircraft has no wipers and you´ll find it sometimes hard to maneuver correctly. Also a lot of lighting of airports is simply blinding, at least for my relatively small and low sitting aircraft. And some of the stuff happens real quick and add to this that I think you won´t be able to appeal a decision by a Chines Authority, I think this would made me very uncomfortable should I have to fly to China again.
Punishment does little, understanding why and how mistakes happen is the way, way better approach. Some airports aren't really clearly or consistent labelled too. Remember Linate (CJ2 vs.MD80) ? I was there a few weeks after the catastrophe and some rwy ahead signs were still grown over by long grass. I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then ? BTW, I have never witnessed a pilot taxi wrong intentionally. Have you ?

[Eric Janson]

Punishment for errors has its root in ancient Chinese tradition and it serves to uphold the corrupt system of leadership where superiors can never be held to blame. They just don't understand that punishment is only for deliberate acts and not human errors. The concept is simply not there. Instead, the system chooses to focus on legislating and enforcing punishment because by doing so allows them to avoid root cause analysis. Often, the root cause is incompetent people barely qualified for their jobs. Unfortunately, these are the most politically connected in Chinese society.

That's true throughout Asia - a culture of Impunity and Zero Accountability!

[expat400]

Chinese ATC is a joke. Flying regularly into PVG and the incompetence is stunning. LHR controllers would get 10 times the aircraft movement on that airport. They build more and more runways and terminals but as long as ATC can't handle more than one aircraft at the time it won't help.

I'm sure most mistakes during taxi is due to bad instructions in bad English from the controllers but they choose to blame the pilots. Not having to fly to China might be the thing that triggers my early retirement.

[BlankBox]

What happens when the back forty's full and all the gates are empty?

[armchairpilot94116]

What happens when the back forty's full and all the gates are empty?

Then they will "force" you to use the gates of course.

[YRP]

I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then?

Ok then let’s add a rule that the lawn mowers have to park at remote stands too. :)

[packapoo]

I´ve been to China only twice. 2 very different experiences, first time everything ATC wise went absolutely fine. Second time after landing we were "vectored" around the airport by ground control in barely audible/understandable english and the gentleman giving the instructions had our position plus were we should go mixed up. Add to this, night, rain and the fact that my aircraft has no wipers and you´ll find it sometimes hard to maneuver correctly. Also a lot of lighting of airports is simply blinding, at least for my relatively small and low sitting aircraft. And some of the stuff happens real quick and add to this that I think you won´t be able to appeal a decision by a Chines Authority, I think this would made me very uncomfortable should I have to fly to China again.
Punishment does little, understanding why and how mistakes happen is the way, way better approach. Some airports aren't really clearly or consistent labelled too. Remember Linate (CJ2 vs.MD80) ? I was there a few weeks after the catastrophe and some rwy ahead signs were still grown over by long grass. I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then ? BTW, I have never witnessed a pilot taxi wrong intentionally. Have you ?

Aha! The dreaded Chinglish.......

[flyhardmo]

So just punish the Chinese airlines whenever they get taxi instructions wrong anywhere else in the world and park them at remote bays. Of course all this will be reported to CAAC as well.

[Toruk Macto]

So just punish the Chinese airlines whenever they get taxi instructions wrong anywhere else in the world and park them at remote bays. Of course all this will be reported to CAAC as well.
And a Chinese pilot being unfairly punished over a small misdemeanour, you know what they call that in China ? A Tuesday !

[ACMS]

What a joke, bloody fools trying to blame EVERYONE ELSE for their bad planning and implementation.

How come we don’t have these problems at most other airports?

[AlexGG]

Hereby notified!

[bringbackthe80s]

Ahahahahha!!!!! Couldn’t make this up

[MENELAUS]

Brilliant Humpty; brilliant. My last early morning departure from PVG had a ground controller (operating all ground sectors N to S and W to E, and barely able to manage one of them let alone 6 ) sounding as though he’d consumed all the local taxi drivers’ supply of ketamine. Asking for a radio check every 3 minutes airborne (from memory the time period when they report you for loss of comms ) is also worth the effort.

[Gnadenburg]

I operated into PEK last night and briefed LVO procedures to mitigate the blame culture. Low taxi speed, checks at the holding point and NO single engine taxi etc.

PEK ATC has always, in my view, been a considerable threat and operating in low visibility requires heightened vigilance as this is when significant systemic dangers could materialise. Often you are asked to expedite off the runway with rapid-fire frequency changes and instructions. A simple turn left or right followed by the instructional barrage would go a long way in reducing the taxi threats on the ground environs. Every other Chinese airport offers this simple measure except PEK - which seems burdened in its training role for ATC?

[swh]

So just punish the Chinese airlines whenever they get taxi instructions wrong anywhere else in the world and park them at remote bays. Of course all this will be reported to CAAC as well.

If only mainland Chinese carriers were banned from every FIR they over transmit on frequency change instead of listening out before transmitting.

Banner from every FIR they read back every clearance with “confirm” making the controller repeat everything twice.

Banned from every airport they fail to maintain ATC speed, or when instructed to contact director with callsign only they over transmit director with a long descending to speed now heading mean while someone just has gone through the loc.

Banned from every airport they hold short of the runway by 100 meters, or take 2 minutes to line up.

Mainland Chinese carriers are the biggest safety risk with the inability to use a radio, or do as instructed. They are biggest impediment to runway/airspace efficiency.

[pineteam]

In most airports in China it’s mandatory to present the crew passports to immigration even for turn around flights. One of the cabin crew will have to go the immigration with all the crew passports. If you forgot your passport, your company will have to pay a fine.
In Shanghai Pudong airport, we are not required to show our passport for turn around flights.
But few months ago, one captain did not have it and bad luck for him, there was a spot check that day. xD
To punish us, apart from the huge fine, for the next 10 days, all the crews had to walk to immigration to show their passports...
We have 4 flights a day to Pekin, so I guess we will park to the remote bay soon. xD
Taxiing in Pekin is easier than before tho. Now they only issue 3 taxi instructions maximum. And they tend to follow a standard taxi route. Landing 36L or 18R which is the longest taxi to the main terminal is pretty much what you can find on the arrival taxi chart.

[bringbackthe80s]

I really wonder why anyone would ever put up with this EVER.

[latecoere240]

The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:

. Category of Taxiing Deviations and Corresponding Measures (I) Category I – (Runway incursion)
1. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway and disturbs other flights’ landing and taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of twelve (12) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.
2. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway but does not disturb other flights’ landing or taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of eight (8) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.

(II) Category II - (Occupying a taxiway but not affecting runway operation)
1. Airlines whose aircraft enter into an incorrect taxiway and leads to a head-on encounter with another aircraft will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row.
2. Airlines whose large-size aircraft enters a lower-grade taxiway without authorization will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row
3. Airlines whose aircraft enters an incorrect taxiway and results in a temporary traffic control or taxiing avoidance (according to the record made by air traffic controller) will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of four (4) weeks in a row
(III) Category III – (Taking a wrong turn or taxiing past the designated position)
For aircrafts taking a wrong turn while taxiing or taxiing past the designated position, based on the actual situation, aircrafts operating the involved flight (by Flight number) will be required to park in remote stands for three (3) weeks in a row.

Thanks for these valuable informations... Is it possible to have the sources of these informations.. Many thanks,

[pineteam]

We also received the email from our safety department. It just says it’s from Pekin Airport.