Canadian citizenship in canadian aviation

[Futurepilot1991]

Hi everybody, i am tunisian living in france and i am 28 years old . I want To move to canada and after getting my PR maybe i Will study aviation and become a pilot . But i am not sure if regional canadian airlines hire only canadian citizens or a permanent residence is enough to get a first officer job in jazz, encore , porter ...etc . I am asking this question because i was studying engineering in the last years, and if the canadian citizenship is necessary, i will go back to university and not waste my time . I will be thankful for your replies . 😊😊😊😊

[Mostly Harmless]

Canada is not like other countries. You do not come out of flight school into an airline, yet. You'll have to work at least one job before the airlines will hire you. That's the aviation part. The right to work is a different government department and different rules so I can offer no advice there.

http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+to+get+Canadian+citizenship

[Futurepilot1991]

Yes of course , i need to build time as a Flight instructor and then i can apply for FO jobs . I hope that airlines dont require citizenship line in europe .and Thank you btw

[fuelsurvey]

PR card is fine. I flew with numerous immigrants that only had a PR card. You can work at a regional no problem.

[Ilyushin76]

How good are chances to score in the regionals for an F/O with 900+ TT (some airline time included)?

[Futurepilot1991]

PR card is fine. I flew with numerous immigrants that only had a PR card. You can work at a regional no problem.
Thank you 😊😊😊 good news

[Mostly Harmless]

Most of the airlines and regionals use a points system to decide if they will interview. I'm not sure of the details of the system but it is something like this:

Degree = X points
Hours = X points
Multi hours = X points
Scheduled airline experience = X points
Etc... you get the idea.

When you hit the magic number your resume pops up to the top of the list and they call you for an interview. At that point it's how well you can lie in an interview room. :)

Charter companies and corporate companies use their own methods and each one is a little different.

Perhaps a little asking at the various companies might give you a better idea of what matrix they are using and if you will fit the mix.

[bafanguy]

Most of the airlines and regionals use a points system to decide if they will interview.

Perhaps a little asking at the various companies might give you a better idea of what matrix they are using and if you will fit the mix.

Mostly H,

That's certainly correct but all indications are the process and criteria are closely guarded secrets. You'll learn the nuclear launch codes before you actually known how these companies select and hire.

Lots of opinions around but we are destined to be The Blind Men and the Elephant where this information is concerned. Interesting (and important) subject for sure.

[Ilyushin76]

Most of the airlines and regionals use a points system to decide if they will interview. I'm not sure of the details of the system but it is something like this:

Degree = X points
Hours = X points
Multi hours = X points
Scheduled airline experience = X points
Etc... you get the idea.

When you hit the magic number your resume pops up to the top of the list and they call you for an interview. At that point it's how well you can lie in an interview room. :)

Charter companies and corporate companies use their own methods and each one is a little different.

Perhaps a little asking at the various companies might give you a better idea of what matrix they are using and if you will fit the mix.

The breakdown actually makes sense.

[+TSRA]

How good are chances to score in the regionals for an F/O with 900+ TT (some airline time included)?

Depends on the person really.

I've interviewed and trained pilots who could fly circles around me but I could smell the BS every time they opened their mouths. I've also interviewed and trained other pilots who could not keep the airplane straight and level but were genuinely nice people, tried hard every day, and put everything they had into their improvement. This applies to pilots with 900 hours just as much as those with 9000 hours.

The airline I work for does have a matrix like that described by Mostly Harmless, but it's not a points-based system. It's either you have the minimum experience levels or you don't. If you do, you're generally given the chance to interview. Something akin to "it's your job to lose."

Because of this, we put a lot of stock into the interview process and the opinion of our current employees. I know one or two people who admitted to having a horrendous interview, but enough people within the company vouched for them and they were given a position. I also know of some really experienced pilots who interviewed well, but their internal references were not stellar or otherwise told a different story than the applicant was telling.

When I was hiring, I would ask myself one question of everyone I'd interview - would I enjoy spending 4 days with this person or would I rather gouge out my eyes with a rusty nail that had been sitting in a pig pen. If it's the former, you'd likely get the nod and I'd let training see if you were up to the task. If it was the latter, it would be a big, fat no. Most interviewers are easy to get along with when line flying, so if we don't think we'd want to spend a 4-day pairing with you, then the line pilot with very strong opinions of him or herself and the company will certainly let us know their feelings on the matter.

But what are your chances? If you meet the minimum requirements and have a good attitude, pretty good right now.

[Ilyushin76]

Depends on the person really.

I've interviewed and trained pilots who could fly circles around me but I could smell the BS every time they opened their mouths. I've also interviewed and trained other pilots who could not keep the airplane straight and level but were genuinely nice people, tried hard every day, and put everything they had into their improvement. This applies to pilots with 900 hours just as much as those with 9000 hours.

The airline I work for does have a matrix like that described by Mostly Harmless, but it's not a points-based system. It's either you have the minimum experience levels or you don't. If you do, you're generally given the chance to interview. Something akin to "it's your job to lose."

Because of this, we put a lot of stock into the interview process and the opinion of our current employees. I know one or two people who admitted to having a horrendous interview, but enough people within the company vouched for them and they were given a position. I also know of some really experienced pilots who interviewed well, but their internal references were not stellar or otherwise told a different story than the applicant was telling.

When I was hiring, I would ask myself one question of everyone I'd interview - would I enjoy spending 4 days with this person or would I rather gouge out my eyes with a rusty nail that had been sitting in a pig pen. If it's the former, you'd likely get the nod and I'd let training see if you were up to the task. If it was the latter, it would be a big, fat no. Most interviewers are easy to get along with when line flying, so if we don't think we'd want to spend a 4-day pairing with you, then the line pilot with very strong opinions of him or herself and the company will certainly let us know their feelings on the matter.

But what are your chances? If you meet the minimum requirements and have a good attitude, pretty good right now.

Good to hear from you sir ! :) Been long.

[Futurepilot1991]

Hi again 😉, how many years it takes to become an a320 or b737 pilot in canada after getting the first pilot job of course

[Willie Everlearn]

Futurepilot1991
I’d recommend, to save time, that you drop into the local Canadian Consulate or Embassy and speak directly with an immigration officer to put yourself on the most accurate and efficient path to entering Canada legally. Pilots on this forum aren’t likely to be conversant with our immigration and right to work legislation or processes. (I know I’m not) In fact, if you’re near Paris, pop into the Quebec Consulate (assuming vous parle francais) for a more rapid entry into Canada.
The pilot jobs over here aren’t that impressive and take a lot of networking. So, the quickest way to get any pilot position in Canada is to do it legally and establish a nepotism network ASAP.
Bon chance.
Willie Everlearn

[futurama]

In fact, if you’re near Paris, pop into the Quebec Consulate (assuming vous parle francais) for a more rapid entry into Canada.
Treason! Quebec is not yet a separate country, they cannot have a consulate in Paris!!! := :}

(They do have a délégation générale there).

[Willie Everlearn]

Quite right,
but...
https://www.international.gouv.qc.ca/fr/paris/immigrer
Quebec Embassy, Quebec Consulate, Quebec Mission, Quebec Government Office, délégation générale, call it anything you like, it’s still an end run around Canadian immigration wherever you apply.
It’s an exercise in their sovereignty. Distinct society.
Malheureusement, nous avons peu de choix au Québec.

Willie

[Futurepilot1991]

Futurepilot1991
I’d recommend, to save time, that you drop into the local Canadian Consulate or Embassy and speak directly with an immigration officer to put yourself on the most accurate and efficient path to entering Canada legally. Pilots on this forum aren’t likely to be conversant with our immigration and right to work legislation or processes. (I know I’m not) In fact, if you’re near Paris, pop into the Quebec Consulate (assuming vous parle francais) for a more rapid entry into Canada.
The pilot jobs over here aren’t that impressive and take a lot of networking. So, the quickest way to get any pilot position in Canada is to do it legally and establish a nepotism network ASAP.
Bon chance.
Willie Everlearn
thanks for this advice, i will check it with an embassy agent because i want to start this career with the right way . So my question is : If i am a flight instructor in canada with 1000 hours having . the right to work and live in canada permanently, how much is my chances to get a regional pilot job ( i speak both english and french) .

[altiplano]

thanks for this advice, i will check it with an embassy agent because i want to start this career with the right way . So my question is : If i am a flight instructor in canada with 1000 hours having . the right to work and live in canada permanently, how much is my chances to get a regional pilot job ( i speak both english and french) .

Right to work in Canada, 1000 hours, fluent English and French, virtually 100% you will be hired by Jazz or one of the other regionals on the current and foreseeable job market.

[Futurepilot1991]

Right to work in Canada, 1000 hours, fluent English and French, virtually 100% you will be hired by Jazz or one of the other regionals on the current and foreseeable job market.
thanks a lot . I am glad to hear these good news

[+TSRA]

Hi again 😉, how many years it takes to become an a320 or b737 pilot in canada after getting the first pilot job of course

As far as this question is concerned, it depends on the airline(s) you apply to and how quickly you build time.

If you've got 1000 hours now, you'll be looking to log about another 1500 or so before a respectable medium jet operator (Air Canada, WestJet, Sunwing, Transat) would seriously entertain your application. Air Canada has a program set up with their Express carriers for movement to Big Red that could get you in the door quicker. Jazz has the biggest part of that pie and that is likely your best bet in the short to medium term to build time and get to narrow body somewhat quickly. The ALPA teams at WestJet and Encore are trying to figure out how to bring a version of their One-List back into play and if that does come back, that could make for an attractive spot as it has the potential to carry seniority over, which the AC system does not. It wouldn't be anywhere near as quick as the AC system, but it has the potential of carrying seniority, which as you will learn is more important in the long run. Speaking French darned near makes your resume gold for Transat, and Sunwing is a great spot if you're single and able to go to Europe during the summer. Even if you're not single, I know people who've moved their families over during the summer and they live the renting lifestyle.

Either way, don't wait for something "better" to come along if you're applying to multiple places. Apply to where you want to work first and if you don't hear back, apply to the places you're willing to work at. The train could stop tomorrow and you want to make sure you've got a good seat when it does.

[Futurepilot1991]

As far as this question is concerned, it depends on the airline(s) you apply to and how quickly you build time.

If you've got 1000 hours now, you'll be looking to log about another 1500 or so before a respectable medium jet operator (Air Canada, WestJet, Sunwing, Transat) would seriously entertain your application. Air Canada has a program set up with their Express carriers for movement to Big Red that could get you in the door quicker. Jazz has the biggest part of that pie and that is likely your best bet in the short to medium term to build time and get to narrow body somewhat quickly. The ALPA teams at WestJet and Encore are trying to figure out how to bring a version of their One-List back into play and if that does come back, that could make for an attractive spot as it has the potential to carry seniority over, which the AC system does not. It wouldn't be anywhere near as quick as the AC system, but it has the potential of carrying seniority, which as you will learn is more important in the long run. Speaking French darned near makes your resume gold for Transat, and Sunwing is a great spot if you're single and able to go to Europe during the summer. Even if you're not single, I know people who've moved their families over during the summer and they live the renting lifestyle.

Either way, don't wait for something "better" to come along if you're applying to multiple places. Apply to where you want to work first and if you don't hear back, apply to the places you're willing to work at. The train could stop tomorrow and you want to make sure you've got a good seat when it does.
Thank you for all these informations 👍👍👍

[Futurepilot1991]

Thank you for all these informations 👍👍👍
god bless you

[Futurepilot1991]

As far as this question is concerned, it depends on the airline(s) you apply to and how quickly you build time.

If you've got 1000 hours now, you'll be looking to log about another 1500 or so before a respectable medium jet operator (Air Canada, WestJet, Sunwing, Transat) would seriously entertain your application. Air Canada has a program set up with their Express carriers for movement to Big Red that could get you in the door quicker. Jazz has the biggest part of that pie and that is likely your best bet in the short to medium term to build time and get to narrow body somewhat quickly. The ALPA teams at WestJet and Encore are trying to figure out how to bring a version of their One-List back into play and if that does come back, that could make for an attractive spot as it has the potential to carry seniority over, which the AC system does not. It wouldn't be anywhere near as quick as the AC system, but it has the potential of carrying seniority, which as you will learn is more important in the long run. Speaking French darned near makes your resume gold for Transat, and Sunwing is a great spot if you're single and able to go to Europe during the summer. Even if you're not single, I know people who've moved their families over during the summer and they live the renting lifestyle.

Either way, don't wait for something "better" to come along if you're applying to multiple places. Apply to where you want to work first and if you don't hear back, apply to the places you're willing to work at. The train could stop tomorrow and you want to make sure you've got a good seat when it does.
so you mean that by joining one of : AC,WESTJET,TRANSAT OR SUNWING i Will fly widebody jets(a320/b737) from Day one or i need to spend another couple of years in narrow body jet before moving to bigger one

[+TSRA]

so you mean that by joining one of : AC,WESTJET,TRANSAT OR SUNWING i Will fly widebody jets(a320/b737) from Day one or i need to spend another couple of years in narrow body jet before moving to bigger one

Well, first you'll have to make sure you understand your terms. Narrow body refers to the likes of an A320/B737 or any similar sized, single-aisle transport category aircraft. Widebody refers to the likes of a 767/A330 or similar size, multi-aisle transport category aircraft.

Sunwing and Swoop (I forgot about them in the previous post) are the only operators that currently fly only narrow-body aircraft, so that is where you would stay. Canadian JetLines may, or may not, be joining that list by December if you believe the hype...but that is the hype that's been brewing since I think 2013 without fact-checking, so I'll believe it when I see it.

WestJet has narrow and widebody aircraft, however, off-the-street (OTS) hires do not go to the widebody aircraft. That's going to the senior guys and it would be a while before you saw widebody. WestJet plays second fiddle to Air Canada, but I'd keep my eye on them, especially if it's a year or two before you'd be applying to a major airline. The buyout deal with Onex, if it goes through, could be a very good thing in the long run.

Air Canada and Transat have both narrow body and wide body, and both go to new hires depending on what the requirements are for the class. I know of people who started and they were all E190 pilots at AC and at AT I know of guys who went straight onto the A330. AC is in the process of buying AT. They've said the two airlines will be operated separately, in a similar way that Air France and KLM are operated, but winds change and there was a day Air Canada was flying the Canadian Goose on its tails (a different situation I know).

[Futurepilot1991]

Well, first you'll have to make sure you understand your terms. Narrow body refers to the likes of an A320/B737 or any similar sized, single-aisle transport category aircraft. Widebody refers to the likes of a 767/A330 or similar size, multi-aisle transport category aircraft.

Sunwing and Swoop (I forgot about them in the previous post) are the only operators that currently fly only narrow-body aircraft, so that is where you would stay. Canadian JetLines may, or may not, be joining that list by December if you believe the hype...but that is the hype that's been brewing since I think 2013 without fact-checking, so I'll believe it when I see it.

WestJet has narrow and widebody aircraft, however, off-the-street (OTS) hires do not go to the widebody aircraft. That's going to the senior guys and it would be a while before you saw widebody. WestJet plays second fiddle to Air Canada, but I'd keep my eye on them, especially if it's a year or two before you'd be applying to a major airline. The buyout deal with Onex, if it goes through, could be a very good thing in the long run.

Air Canada and Transat have both narrow body and wide body, and both go to new hires depending on what the requirements are for the class. I know of people who started and they were all E190 pilots at AC and at AT I know of guys who went straight onto the A330. AC is in the process of buying AT. They've said the two airlines will be operated separately, in a similar way that Air France and KLM are operated, but winds change and there was a day Air Canada was flying the Canadian Goose on its tails (a different situation I know).
THANK YOU for the answer , sorry 😁😁😁 i thought that a320/b737 are widebodies . So what do we call planes like BOMBARDIER and DASH , Q400 . And Let's reform the question : Will i fly directly a320 And b737 after joining these company or i Will spend another years in a planes like BOMBARDIER , DASH , Q400

[+TSRA]

THANK YOU for the answer , sorry 😁😁😁 i thought that a320/b737 are widebodies . So what do we call planes like BOMBARDIER and DASH , Q400 . And Let's reform the question : Will i fly directly a320 And b737 after joining these company or i Will spend another years in a planes like BOMBARDIER , DASH , Q400

First, there really isn’t a specific term for a transport category aircraft the size of a Q400. Technically, it would be narrow-body, but you’d get weird looks referring to it as such. Turbo-prop is about as tech-y as it gets.

Second, as far as what you’ll fly, it really comes down to who you apply to and what they need at the time. No one has a crystal ball. I’ll try and rephrase my previous post as I thought I was fairly clear.

Sunwing, Swoop, Air Transat, WestJet, and Air Canada do not fly turbo-props. So whatever aircraft you’re put on when joining these companies, they’re going to be at least narrow-body jets, maybe wide-body if that’s what’s AT or AC need for your class.

However, your experience (1,000 hrs) does not permit you to apply to one of these operators and realistically expect a response, so you’d be looking to Jazz, Porter, Encore and the like who do fly Q400’s or CRJ’s to build your time.

So yes, you’re likely going to spend some time in the seat of a Q400 or CRJ before getting to a narrow-body jet. It’s a big jump for many people from a Cessna to a Q400, never mind to a 737/A320.

[Futurepilot1991]

First, there really isn’t a specific term for a transport category aircraft the size of a Q400. Technically, it would be narrow-body, but you’d get weird looks referring to it as such. Turbo-prop is about as tech-y as it gets.

Second, as far as what you’ll fly, it really comes down to who you apply to and what they need at the time. No one has a crystal ball. I’ll try and rephrase my previous post as I thought I was fairly clear.

Sunwing, Swoop, Air Transat, WestJet, and Air Canada do not fly turbo-props. So whatever aircraft you’re put on when joining these companies, they’re going to be at least narrow-body jets, maybe wide-body if that’s what’s AT or AC need for your class.

However, your experience (1,000 hrs) does not permit you to apply to one of these operators and realistically expect a response, so you’d be looking to Jazz, Porter, Encore and the like who do fly Q400’s or CRJ’s to build your time.

So yes, you’re likely going to spend some time in the seat of a Q400 or CRJ before getting to a narrow-body jet. It’s a big jump for many people from a Cessna to a Q400, never mind to a 737/A320.
Thanks a lot , i am grateful for you

[Willie Everlearn]

Habib,
why waste your time with Canada and the crap industry over here when you could apply for any number of Cadet programs offered in the Maghreb or Gulf? Emirates will stick you on a 777, A380, or A330. Qatar, the A320 at a minimum. Why f**k around in the right seat of a Canadian Dash8 or RJ when you could fly internationally for numerous carriers outside Europe or Canada?
There are better paths to a much more rewarding flying career by looking outside Canada.

Ahlaan wahsalaan bikum huna.

Willie Everlearn

[Futurepilot1991]

Habib,
why waste your time with Canada and the crap industry over here when you could apply for any number of Cadet programs offered in the Maghreb or Gulf? Emirates will stick you on a 777, A380, or A330. Qatar, the A320 at a minimum. Why f**k around in the right seat of a Canadian Dash8 or RJ when you could fly internationally for numerous carriers outside Europe or Canada?
There are better paths to a much more rewarding flying career by looking outside Canada.

Ahlaan wahsalaan bikum huna.

Willie Everlearn
Shokran Jazeelan ,
i am tunisian and there is no cadet program in Africa but in the gulf yes there's at least 4 :
-etihad mpl: closed now.
-qatar airways , air arabia , air nass: cost more than 120 k€ and the maximum age is 28 for qatar and 31 for air arabia and now i'm 28 so i am not certain If i can make all this money before 31 .
fly emirates : so expensive 200 k$ and i think it's opened only for locals and tunisia have a bad diplomatic relations with Uae after 2011 revolution and they stopped giving working visa for tunisians in all the fields .

[Futurepilot1991]

First, there really isn’t a specific term for a transport category aircraft the size of a Q400. Technically, it would be narrow-body, but you’d get weird looks referring to it as such. Turbo-prop is about as tech-y as it gets.

Second, as far as what you’ll fly, it really comes down to who you apply to and what they need at the time. No one has a crystal ball. I’ll try and rephrase my previous post as I thought I was fairly clear.

Sunwing, Swoop, Air Transat, WestJet, and Air Canada do not fly turbo-props. So whatever aircraft you’re put on when joining these companies, they’re going to be at least narrow-body jets, maybe wide-body if that’s what’s AT or AC need for your class.

However, your experience (1,000 hrs) does not permit you to apply to one of these operators and realistically expect a response, so you’d be looking to Jazz, Porter, Encore and the like who do fly Q400’s or CRJ’s to build your time.

So yes, you’re likely going to spend some time in the seat of a Q400 or CRJ before getting to a narrow-body jet. It’s a big jump for many people from a Cessna to a Q400, never mind to a 737/A320.
hi,,from my informations the realistic and the ideal path for a fresh graduate pilot in canada (i know that each airline has its strategy of recruitment and seniority list )is:
2/3years as regional first officer
then promotion to a regional captain or jet first officer in AC,AT or wesjet ?

[Futurepilot1991]

[QUOTE=evansb;10517600]Fly a Twin Otter with wheel-skis in the dark Arctic winter. Fly a Cessna 185 on floats in the late twilight of a smoke filled sky of a Yukon or Northwest Territories summer. Fly an entire family and their groceries in an old Piper Navajo in the winter of a province that begins north of the 49th parallel. Fly an aerial applicator (spray plane) while hung over in a hot dry southern Alberta summer. Fly leaky King Airs on MEDEVACS on Sunday, 0245 hours a.m., from a snow covered unploughed runway to an even shorter snowy unploughed runway. Dump fire retardant whilst looking through a bug splattered windscreen on a forest fire in a narrow B.C. valley when the OAT is 32 degrees Celsius. Only when when you have done the aforementioned should you apply for a Canadian Air Transport Pilot License. And only then. Thank you.[/QUOTE



i Think these jobs you had stated is to build hours before the first regional first officer job . Iam asking About the realistic path for a pilot after the first regional job and how many years does it take every one( REG FO the REG CA then MAJOR FO then MAJOR CA) and is it possible to move from regional first officer job to a jet first officer in a major airline directly ?

[evansb]

Yes, it is possible.

[Futurepilot1991]

Yes, it is possible.
thanks bro 😉😉