Comments by Cabin Crew on Firm Landings

[CaptainGrizzly]

Hi there

Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).

​​​​​
​​​​​Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"

Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.

​​​​Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.

Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?

Thanks

[gearlever]

Fly your trolley, I fly the aircraft.

[back to Boeing]

It happens. Take it on the chin. You know you did all the correct things.

Though its its always tempting to say “if it was that bad I’ll let you do it next time”

[LimaFoxTango]

Buddy, grow a pair and grow up. There's plenty more of those to come in your career. I've had passengers refuse to come back on the aircraft after a particularly rough landing (multi leg flight). You live and you learn.

[Banana Joe]

Fly your trolley, I fly the aircraft.
This. This is how you should reply the next time. And then just shrug it off.

[clark y]

Just remember, any one you can walk away from is a good landing and if you can use the aircraft again, it's a win for the insurance company.
I've had a cabin manager berate a newbie after I smacked one on. Clear, calm day. CM was sure the newbie did it and didn't believe me when I said I did it. After convincing the CM it was my landing, his next question was "why was it so bad?"......I just stuffed it up.

The big thing is not to dwell on it. Throughout your career you'll probably go through phases of good landings, bad landings and lots in the middle. Just move on.

[Matey]

“I was breaking through the surface film of concrete to avoid aquaplaning” always worked for me.

[Buswinker]

“We didn’t land, we were shot down”

[megan]

Old saying, " A smooth landing is mostly luck; two in a row is all luck; three in a row is prevarication".

The very worse landing I've ridden was sat in the the last row of a very reputable airline 747 on a dead calm day following a very long flight, made the CC gasp and clutch her seat. It happens, don't sweat it. You'll do more in the future, both good and bad.

[AerocatS2A]

What you do is you get in first. Before the CSM can say anything, you just say “boy I crashed that one on, sorry about that!” Then, assuming the CSM is a fairly normal person, they will chuckle and make noises about having “experienced worse” and “it wasn’t that bad”.

[Check Airman]

1. Ask her to try her hand at the next one.

2. Shrug it off. You'll do ones better than that, and probably a few more that are worse than that!

[timmyEGCC]

My landing quality commensurates with your coffee making abilities works too

[compressor stall]

In my (small) outfit, we run a pretty tight crew and happily wind each other up.

I had a relatively firm landing at a remote location in tough gusty crosswind conditions where there is no margin for error and the gradients make it pretty "fun". I'd briefed the FO as such prior to landing that there'd be no finesse today.

In the crew bus after shutdown, Purser (smiling) starts rubbing his neck saying he needs to make a phone call to his physio after that landing. Quick as a flash I came back that I also had to call engineering as the ovens were evidently faulty as my bread roll was cold on that sector. Cue much laughter and off to the bar we all went, Flight Crew, Cabin Crew and travelling engineer..

[CaptainGrizzly]

Thanks a lot guys. It helped. :ok: It was my first time in 1200 HRS of airline flying, so yeah, felt harsh. :ouch:

[MD80767 Driver]

My buddy - 5000 hours on type - smashed it on really bad, one day. In the crewshuttle afterwards - everyone very quiet. Buddy decided to break the ice. "Ladies, just to let you know that, I've been having some problems with the touchdowns lately - but this one was pretty damn good,don't you think (big smile)??" Everyone broke out in laughter, and the 1.8 G's were already forgotten. CaptGrizzly....just forget it. Cabin crew already have!

[pulse1]

There's a good story from the good old days of BEA in the Highlands. Captain announces that the FO will be doing the landing. At the last minute, because the conditions were much worse than they had realised, the captain took over for the touch down which was a real slammer. After shutting down, the FO got up from his seat, put on the captain's jacket and walked out to face the passengers.

[BleedingOn]

After chucking one on one day the purser came in the flight deck just as we turned off the runway (pre 2001) with a cup... “You planted it, you might as well water it”! Good job we were and still are good mates!

[giggitygiggity]

Quick as a flash I came back that I also had to call engineering as the ovens were evidently faulty as my bread roll was cold on that sector.

I’m stealing that one for my next smasher!

[Capt Fathom]

I’d be telling the Cabin Crew they’re lucky to be alive!
The only person I’m concerned about is me! And if I’m OK, everyone else will be too! :E

[hunterboy]

If it was easy, anyone would be able to do it!

[Raffles S.A.]

You come out of the cockpit and the purser's panties are around her ankles.

[MurphyWasRight]

Even well intentioned comments can have unintended meaning
.
Long time ago when a higher percentage of pilots were from military I used to play the 'ex-navy/airforce' game on landings;
On the numbers and 'firm' == Navy, leisurely and floating in == Air Force.

After one 'firm' landing in a small turboprop (14? seats) I asked the pilot if he was ex-navy, he got a slightly odd look on his face and replied he had washed out of Navy flight training.
To his defense it was a small regional airport so probably did not have a lot of runway to play with

[Jonty]

Hi there

Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).

​​​​​
​​​​​Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"

Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.

​​​​Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.

Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?

Thanks


Really?!? Are you twelve? A member of cabin crew comments on your landing and 2 weeks later it still hurts!

Man up FFS!

[AviatorDave]

Good cabin crew should know better. If they ask in seriousness, they‘ll get an answer.
If they just mean to be insulting and belittling, which I have the impression was the case here, shrug it off and walk away. You are the pro at the stick, what do they know.

[sonicbum]

Hi there

Recently had a pretty firm touchdown in quite turbulent conditions. I understand it was my judgemental error in terms of under-flaring the aircraft. But nonetheless, approach was stabilised, touchdown on centre line and within TDZ and aircraft perfectly intact. All criteria of a safe landing fulfilled. Touchdown sound was quite loud - I believe A320 shock absorbers make that sound (wham).

​​​​​
​​​​​Went out of the cockpit, thanked the Flight Purser, as is the norm here. Then came the sarcastic reply: "No, thank you, you did such a great landing, blah blah, a passenger said the pilot should be sent for training.. Blah blah"

Ok that hurt big time.. Especially it was my first time hearing something like this from a cabin crew. Even Captains have never commented on me this way. Surprisingly, this lady also conducts CRM classes for Cockpit crew.

​​​​Having no comebacks, and already embarrased, I just laughed it off. And its been more than 2 weeks and it still hurts, I think I should have said something! I should have pointed out that they are not in a position to judge what's safe.

Anyhow, just wanted to share my dilemma with fellow flyers. Have you guys ever had any such experiences? What do you think the response should be?

Thanks

Advice : grow a pair, otherwise the aviation world will eat You alive, especially nowadays where, in some airlines, the time frame of a cabin crew between being a saleswoman/man at H&M and Purser is less than a year and their number one and only priority is selling stuff on board. Just ask her/him if she/he has any problems with that landing as technically there is none and she is free to offload herself if she feels like. Yes, that becomes **** crew communication performance from your side, but sometimes that's how it works.

[KiloB]

Best Cabin Announcement I ever heard was after a first trip FO REALLY hurled it on at JNB. Some lockers burst open, jackets and small stuff fell out and there was deathly quiet from a very unimpressed set of SLF.

Purser comes on the speakers, with what starts as the standard arrival message, but reads “Ladies and gentlemen, you may have noticed we have just arrived at JNB, will the SURVIVORS please remain seated ..........etc etc”.

Just the right thing to say, and the whole cabin burst out laughing. Took all the steam out of the whole thing. Would like to have seen the faces on the flight deck though as they heard the announcement.

[CaptainGrizzly]

Jonty No sir, I'm not 12. While I do understand your point, but life is a learning experience and many a times we learn best from what hurts us. I'm learning :ok:


Thank you all. I have a new approach to look at such situations now. :ok:

[IZH]

If someone judges my landing I ask them to also judge my takeoff. Quite funny to see the reactions.

[Jetstream67]

I can smile at CC subtly altering announcements .. " Ladies and gentlemen, as you see we have definitely arrived at Sydney airport. . ."

[Busdriver01]

Either they’re just throwing a bit of banter at you because they think you can take it, or they’re actually having a go / trying to put you down / seniority complex etc. (Certainly experienced the last one once).

For the former, great, this is the sign of good CRM at play. Either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back.

For the latter, either laugh it off, or throw some light hearted banter / self deprecation back - they’ll either realise it wasn’t particularly polite of them, or they won’t and you can walk away knowing you rose above it. (Literally, if it’s a particularly bad landing!). YOU know what a safe landing is, that’s all the matters.

I would add for any CC reading that, as I’m sure you understand, perhaps it’s best not to comment on the landings of someone new. Even if it’s meant well, it clearly has lasting effects on people. It’s can be a stressful time in ones career and despite what people say it isn’t just as easy as letting the autopilot do it for you. The last thing you want is to be worried what the crew might say as well!

[Icanseeclearly]

A PA to the passengers after a slammer along the lines of “now we have all picked our teeth up from the floor a very warm welcome to...” breaks the ice and they will have a laugh with you as they disembark at which point I let them know I’m an ex Navy man and if you can walk away from it it’s a good landing.

that said I do agree with many of the pr virus posters, have a word with yourself and come down off your pedestal everyone plants the aircraft every now and again and if you mention it first it is quickly forgotten.

[Zeus]

One Big Airline has the flight deck crew stand at the door as the passengers get off.
After a particularly firm landing a gentleman smartly turned out in a blue blazer and tie smiled at the captain and very diplomatically complimented him on the take-off.

Have to agree with previous comments along the lines of "the hangar doors are closed" i.e. forget about it. It happens to the best of us.
The best response seems to take a light hearted approach to it and make a joke about it.

[Smythe]

open mike:

wow, how did that get on the runway...phew.

close mike

or better:

you know, I am just not a big fan of these automated landings....

[msbbarratt]

SLF here CaptainGrizzly - on a fundamental level any landing that doesn't result in myself or anyone else expiring or spending too much time in hospital is just fine by me. Everything else can be sorted out in one or all of the laundromat, tailors and bar.

Though I'll probably have a return ticket, so it'd be nice if the plane wasn't too badly bent.

[john_tullamarine]

Probably better as a CRM thread ? We've all had the occasional gutser to reflect upon ... Mother Nature and aeroplanes are great levellers

[Lou Scannon]

The smoothest PA was from a colleague following a very firm arrival:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, even the most unobservant of you will have noticed that we have now arrived at Kennedy airport...."

[simmple]

Overheard on the pa after one of mine, always listened after an embarrassing arrival.

the aircraft seems to have stopped flying earlier than expected but the captain informed us the taxi to stand should be smoother

always found if the cabin crew felt comfortable enough to take the mick you were having a good day out

[dr dre]

Your biggest mistake is thinking you’ve done something wrong. A safe landing is not judged on the firmness of the touchdown.

Take the opportunity to educate the cabin crew. Most of them have little aviation knowledge. Explain to them that a landing within the touchdown zone is the desired result, whether it is firm or not, and it’s better to land firmly in the touchdown zone rather than float and chew up half the runway to pull off a greaser, especially in wet conditions or on a short runway.

If you smile and laugh it off you just perpetuate the myth that positive touchdown = bad landing.

[Auxtank]

You could always live the PA and say (as if in conversation with your FO); "Now that's how we'd have done it if we were deliberately doing it very badly indeed, okay?."

[D-OCHO]

What I ask my FO's all the time after a rough landing: what is the difference between a GOOD landing and a PERFECT landing?

A GOOD landing is a landing from which you can walk away from.
A PERFECT landing is a landing after which the aircraft still flies.

[ibmpilot]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x429/i_wonder_if_my_bad_landing_is_still_thinking_about_me_c5de84 0f763cdb2768aa791ec1f4cc2caf25ff64.jpg

[Gauges and Dials]

After a disturbingly firm landing, a cabin announcement along the lines of "Please remain seated with your seat belt securely fastened while the captain taxis what's left of the aircraft to the gate," always serves to break the ice.

[anto125]

Best Cabin Announcement I ever heard was after a first trip FO REALLY hurled it on at JNB. Some lockers burst open, jackets and small stuff fell out and there was deathly quiet from a very unimpressed set of SLF.

Purser comes on the speakers, with what starts as the standard arrival message, but reads “Ladies and gentlemen, you may have noticed we have just arrived at JNB, will the SURVIVORS please remain seated ..........etc etc”.

Just the right thing to say, and the whole cabin burst out laughing. Took all the steam out of the whole thing. Would like to have seen the faces on the flight deck though as they heard the announcement.

this.
I've been cabin crew and I admit sometimes a lot of ex colleagues used to act and talk silly to pilots, sad to read people here writing stuff like "go on pushing your trolley" this attitude put us pilots exactly where a lot of cabin crew think we belong: asshole department.
Just laugh about it and take it way less personally.

[AviatorDave]

this.
I've been cabin crew and I admit sometimes a lot of ex colleagues used to act and talk silly to pilots, sad to read people here writing stuff like "go on pushing your trolley" this attitude put us pilots exactly where a lot of cabin crew think we belong: asshole department.
Just laugh about it and take it way less personally.

Well, it all depends on the situation, Some joking around by CC about it is one thing, and this can easily and jointly be done away with.
However, I’ve seen some senior CC dragons try and come down upon new FOs and CPTs alike in many disgusting ways, which requires some sterner measures to clear the house again.

[anto125]

100% with you Dave, idiots are common in every profession, either pilots, cabin crew, chefs, doctors, employees, etc..
I think a good captain should be able to recognize these elements and stop them at first sign in the most polite way, usually irony helps.
Then if after a 10hrs flight you have to divert 1000km from home in bad weather and you receive comments from a ****ty crew, everybody has his bad day..
As much as, after the same flight, and after serving 300 people for three times, you're yelled by a captain who blasts you because the frappuccino with warm milk, cacao and one and a half spoon of sugar he asked is too sweet and too hot.
But let's not forget that cabin crew has historically always been teased by flight crews since their first flight, considered just as bitchy waitresses & chicken heads.
Being a cabin attendant can be a tuff job too if you want to do it properly..

Anyway de-briefings are really important in these kind of situations, if necessary separately with the single silly cc

[tomuchwork]

My favourite:

“Please remain seated, until Captain Kangaroo has finished bouncing us all the way to the gate and the aircraft come to a complete stop”


Even as a "firm" landing lies well within the parameters of a safe landing it still bothers us(at least me) if I cannot make it as well smooth. I accept it easily if cabin crew is making jokes about it(and as well passengers). Do not forget - after all the landing is the only thing cabin crew and passengers really can grade "the quality"(even if this grading is wrong, a soft landing can be a unsafe one if combined with a long landing on a to short runway or "flared to dead" with the impending risk of a tailstrike). I do not say it is fair, but it is their only lead.