Easyjet Emergency

[bar none]

At 1445 today a Easyjet A320 took off from Liverpool bound for Lanzarote. It immediately went into a three circuit holding pattern just west of Chester and then dived into Manchester landing downwind against the traffic pattern.

Any ideas ?

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Squawked 7700.

[El Grifo]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1920/screenshot_20190424_175943_flightradar24_7cc7f4e17c2f221dab1 e04ced35a0e97513a9b11.jpg
Certainly ain't here !! El G.

[alf5071h]

Ppruners, please this is not a spotters forum. Give us some facts, substantiated speculation, then it might be news or rumour.
If you want ideas then post in the questions or spotters area.

[lomapaseo]

At 1445 today a Easyjet A320 took off from Liverpool bound for Lanzarote. It immediately went into a three circuit holding pattern just west of Chester and then dived into Manchester landing downwind against the traffic pattern.

Any ideas ?

Please define "dived" in FPM

sounds like a ho-hum event

[Dave Sharpe]

Perhaps the clue to their actions are defined by two simple statements -a transponder code of 7700 which will immediately give them priority handling by all ATC units as that gave them some time to consider their actions to get the best result and Manchester giving them clearance to land the way they did -points to correct use of the 7700 transponder code to get them straight into the most appropriate airfield to handle their emergency ---system worked as it should ---the why is a different question ---

[DaveReidUK]

Presumably just to dump an unruly or ill passenger.

With the ARFFS on hand, in case said passenger burst into flames ? :O

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/492x140/ezy7517_fd764da3801af698991761bbac27b027db400356.jpg

EasyJet flight from Liverpool to Lanzarote makes unscheduled landing at Manchester airport (https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/easyjet-flight-liverpool-lanzarote-makes-16175103)

[Suzeman]

Reported to be a flap issue

[gearlever]

Flaps issue = Emergency?
:uhoh:

[Livesinafield]

well its a flight control issue, so i dont see why not, better to be safe than sorry, some aircraft are a pig to land without flap.

Why not be over cautious and then downgrade if needed, as a full emergency you will get full attention, seems like a good idea in my eyes

Also ATC sometimes require you to set 7700 when you have an issue even if you only declared a PAN

[LookingForAJob]

With the ARFFS on hand, in case said passenger burst into flames ? https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/embarass.gif
These days the controller will often have no option but to call out RFFS regardless of the reported problem.

[tubby linton]

If you do not land in a normal config or something allowed under the MEL then it is at the very least a Pan.Having visited Latcc they think it mildly amusing when pilots report they have a small problem because it is usually much more.

[gearlever]

Also ATC sometimes require you to set 7700 when you have an issue even if you only declared a PAN

Really?

Who is in charge of the airplane?

I'm getting old....

[Dct_Mopas]

Really?

Who is in charge of the airplane?

I'm getting old....

So you’d refuse to set 7700 when politely requested by ATC? I’ve had a moderate tech fault requiring a return and again was asked to set 7700, simply for controller workload and so other sectors had an idea that we weren’t going to follow the standard departure flow.

Really not an issue.

[gearlever]

To my understanding declearing an emergency (7700) rests solely with the commander.

[simmple]

FFS even if the problem is minor and atc “ask” you to squark 7700 why would you just not do it instead of having a p@##&)g contest about who is in charge, command, the boss etc!

[gearlever]

FFS even if the problem is minor and atc “ask” you to squark 7700 why would you just not do it instead of having a p@##&)g contest about who is in charge, command, the boss etc!

I'm afraid you have no clue what declearing an emergency in fact means.....
Oh boy.

[Livesinafield]

If i have a issue, declare a pan and ATC ask me to squawk 7700 im not going to refuse, they are trying to help you, and we don't know whats happening on their end.

I had a flap issue once, declared a Pan and ATC requested I set 7700 and was given full priority to my diversion and a sterile runway, never once used the M word.. sounds great to me

[simmple]

I'm afraid you have no clue what declearing an emergency in fact means.....
Oh boy.
like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, one mans emergency is anothers mild irritation

[KelvinD]

Dear me!
Somebody reported something he found unusual and what is the response:
"Post it in a different forum". Really? Well, perhaps the OP had "heard" of this event; Rumour.
Or perhaps the OP thought this was an event so unusual that it constituted something noteworthy; News.
Meanwhile a fight breaks out over who says to squawk 7700 or otherwise. Strange attitudes here such as "My aeroplane, I will squawk 7700 when I want to, not when told to." What a shock that pilot would get if ATC responded with "And my airport and you're not landing after all!"
Meanwhile, everyone seems to have missed the elephant in the room. Per the original post, the flight landed from the opposite direction to what was currently in effect at the airport at the time. Flights were landing and departing toward the South West, yet this flight landed from the South West. Didn't anybody think that was unusual? It seems to lend some weight to the argument that the pilot thought there was some urgency and he wanted to land as soon as possible, and probably unlikely that this was due to an unruly passenger. As far as I can tell, the aircraft is still on the ground at Manchester, 8 hours after landing.

[DaveReidUK]

As far as I can tell, the aircraft is still on the ground at Manchester, 8 hours after landing.

Indeed it is.

Took off again from MAN at 18:17 to ACE

The flight to ACE took off, but with a replacement aircraft.

[lurkio]

I a pilot declares an emergency then he deems the situation deserves it. He can always downgrade. If a controller hears someone coming in with a problem he can if he so wishes call a "local" emergency. He is, after all, responsibe for a lot of real estate, airspace and aircraft and if calling it an emergency makes his life a whole lot easier I see absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. Too many people on this site are so far up their own @rses that they seem to find it difficult to accept someone has a different opinion or way of operating to theirs. If you live in a climate of fear at your particular airline/aerodrome that declaring an emergency will have you in front of the CP/SATCO then I feel sorry for you. Not all of us live under that umbrella and feel able to make up our minds accordingly and deal with the situation as we deem fit. Over.

[hawk76]

I'm afraid you have no clue what declearing an emergency in fact means.....
Oh boy.

At least here in the States, squawking 7700 is not the same as declaring an emergency. In fact, if you're already talking to ATC, you shouldn't squawk 7700 even if you've declared an emergency, unless ATC asks you to.

[racedo]

I a pilot declares an emergency Over.

Pilot paid to make that judgement call. It is their judgement end of story. Never going to query it. If in doubt go back to the "Pilot paid to make that judgement call".

[Hotel Tango]

I'm afraid you have no clue what declearing an emergency in fact means.....

And I would suggest that you obviously have no clue how ATC works and WHY they request you to set 7700. Oh boy!

[Loose rivets]

This far, and no one has posted the METARS . . . I want to know the surface wind!!!!!!

[zonoma]

Hotel Tango his the nail on the head. I don't care who is in charge of or who owns an aircraft, if I ask for 7700 (even if not an emergency) then I suggest you select it ASAP as I'll have a VERY good reason for asking that you probably have no idea about. I use it when weather avoiding sometimes, you won't follow my instructions so I need the squawk. Otherwise you can do your own coordination with French Military - good luck.

[giggitygiggity]

And I would suggest that you obviously have no clue how ATC works and WHY they request you to set 7700. Oh boy!

Precisely, gearlever seriously needs to get over himself, perhaps it's time to hang up the hat when your ego no longer fits inside the seams. 7700 is a CONSPICUITY CODE, meaning you're conspicuous. By selecting it, you should appear on all Radar screens, regardless of level filters. This means that every controller viewing that geographical sector, no matter which levels they're responsible for, can see you.

Is setting 7700 legally 'declaring an emergency', or just setting an emergency transponder code? In Europe, as far as I understand, an emergency isn't declared without making a mayday or a pan.

[ESQU]

EGCC-A1139/19From: 19/04/2019 03:00 UTC
To: 03/05/2019 05:00 UTCAD NOT AVAILABLE FOR DIVERTED TRAFFIC, EXCLUDING EMERGENCIES

In the U.K. some airports will not accept you unless you declare urgency or emergency.

[ATC Watcher]

How dear ! Bruised egos or ignorance or old age again .
Back to the book : declaring an emergency will give you priority and assistance from ATC. Period . It is not an admission of failure ,
Squawking 7700 will just get you priority and, as already said here , will warn everyone else that you might divert from your flight plan ,and/or altitude and that is including the military ,
in todays world of pancakes sectors there are plenty of other sectors below you , some even located in another country .
So when ATC ask you to set 7700 , if is to make sure you will not hit someone else on the way down and possibly to save you the cost of being intercepted .

As to refusing to do it , of course as PIC you always can refuse to follow any ATC instruction , you just will have to explain why afterwards in an office over tea/coffee.!

[KiloB]

Hopefully we have now done the ‘7700’ bit to death and can focus on why an aircraft with a reported Flap problem would opt for a downwind landing! Doesn’t seem the natural choice.

[Auxtank]

this far, and no one has posted the metars . . . I want to know the surface wind!!!!!!
sa24/04/2019 16:20->metar cor egcc 241620z 14008kt 090v190 9999 6000ne -shra
vcts few027cb bkn037 14/12 q0990 rets retsra reshra
tempo 4000 +shra tsgr bkn014 bkn025cb

sa24/04/2019 15:50->metar cor egcc 241550z 10007kt 050v160 9999 7000s few031
sct044cb 18/11 q0989 tempo 4000 +shra tsgr

[parabellum]

KiloB - are you not aware that the opportunity to pursue an off topic and often pointless argument will take priority over a statement of bald facts at any time! This is PPRuNe, for heavens sake! :)

[Herod]

As captain of the aircraft, my responsibility was to the safety of said aircraft, crew and passengers. If part of that responsibility is to do what ATC ask, then yes, I would do it. I have the picture of my aeroplane; they have the full plot. End of.

[pilotmike]

Flaps issue = Emergency?
:uhoh:

....I'm afraid you have no clue what declearing an emergency in fact means.....
Oh boy.

... Who is in charge of the airplane?

I'm getting old....

'gearlever' once believed they were top dog, wrestling big heavy machines around the sky with little if any assistance from anyone else, such was their confidence in their God-given skills and massive ego.

In more recent times, now much older, they play with much smaller things which can barely rise or stay up - usually from the comfort of an armchair, which has its own odour. But the ego remains, so they are keen to spout forth on any subject, claiming it wouldn't be close to an emergency for them back in their glory days when they felt in their prime, no matter even if it is ATC who requests them such a simple courtesy as to set a squawk - such humiliation for such a fragile ego.

Please be gentle on them in their dotage.:ok:

[Auxtank]

Liverpool Echo is quoting a passenger as saying the captain announced it was a bird strike.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/easyjet-flight-liverpool-made-unscheduled-16176605

Sue Candler, who was travelling with her husband, said:

"As we were taking off I could hear from vibrations coming from behind me but we couldn't feel them. I wondered what was going on and then a few minutes after take off the pilot said we would be landing at Manchester due to a bird getting caught in the engine. We landed at about 3.30pm and were moved to another aircraft to go on to Lanzarote.

"The pilot came out and spoke to us as we were waiting to get off and explained that a bird had got caught in the engine during take off and it was safer to land and have the plane checked over."

Sounds like a very reasonable 7700 squawk to me but then I'm old but not bold.

[bar none]

As the original poster I am mildly amused by the replies to a simple question of why a A320 took off from one airport, circled three times and then landed downwind against the traffic flow at another airport.
Alf5071h decided it was not eventfull enough for Rumours & News.
Paul852 presumed a passenger became unruly as soon as the aircraft became airborne.
Lomopaseo wanted a definition of 'dived', presumably with his lawyer's hat on.
Gearlever ( a real star) decided an undefined flap issue was not an emergency.
Gearlever then decided that commonly accepted rules regarding squawking 7700 do not apply to him because he knows better.
Gearlever offered the opinion that none of us know what an emergency is.
Several contributors then had a very interesting discussion about the merits of squawking 7700 (interesting but irrelevent to the original question).
Thank you Auxtank for the answer.

[Dct_Mopas]

Well it’s been fun :}

Turns out it was a birdstrike leading to high engine vibrations.

[Auxtank]

As the original poster I am mildly amused by the replies to a simple question of why a A320 took off from one airport, circled three times and then landed downwind against the traffic flow at another airport.
Alf5071h decided it was not eventfull enough for Rumours & News.
Paul852 presumed a passenger became unruly as soon as the aircraft became airborne.
Lomopaseo wanted a definition of 'dived', presumably with his lawyer's hat on.
Gearlever ( a real star) decided an undefined flap issue was not an emergency.
Gearlever then decided that commonly accepted rules regarding squawking 7700 do not apply to him because he knows better.
Gearlever offered the opinion that none of us know what an emergency is.
Several contributors then had a very interesting discussion about the merits of squawking 7700 (interesting but irrelevent to the original question).
Thank you Auxtank for the answer.

You're most welcome bar none.
I tend to stay away from the initial hysteria of R and N and post a day or so later when at least the basic facts become known.
This particular thread seems to have garnered a high proportion of hysterics - must be the time of year - so has I suppose, been amusing if not informative in the slightest.
Thanks for posting.

[hans brinker]

To my understanding declearing an emergency (7700) rests solely with the commander.


FFS even if the problem is minor and atc “ask” you to squark 7700 why would you just not do it instead of having a p@##&)g contest about who is in charge, command, the boss etc!


When I was training to be a controller for Eurocontrol we were definitely trained how to declare an emergency for an aircraft, also in the USA the dispatcher can declare an emergency, and I would not be surprised if the same is true over there.

[Hotel Tango]

I should seek out the local news agencies and their reporting.

And you think that would be any better? ;)

[roybert]

Given the suggestion that " with the wind landing on a suggested Flap issue" was any more valid than what a reporter would quote

[Uplinker]

On the subject of being asked by ATC to squawk 7700:

Really?

Who is in charge of the airplane?

I'm getting old....

ATC controllers often work from filtered screens, meaning that certain aircraft not in their sector, (e.g, above or below), will be invisible to them.
By squawking 7700, the system causes an aircraft to become visible on all screens, including filtered ones, so that all controllers will see an aircraft that might be vectoring in an unusual or non standard direction, and possibly about to come back into their sector. This improves controller situational awareness, and alerts Approach, Tower and Ground controllers etc, to see the affected aircraft and make allowances for its routing and probable return to land.

I can thoroughly recommend that pilots visit ATC on one of their TRUCE days. It is a fascinating and really worthwhile day out. :ok:

[Cornish Jack]

Having spent all of my 50 year working life in aviation (both military and civilian), I can only register utter amazement that Uplinker's explanation for the 77 squawk is the first to appear!! That so-called 'professional' aviators should be so woefully unaware of the operation of the ATC environment which mediates and mandates their daily operation is both mind-boggling and deeply worrying, Lift your weary backsides from your self-satisfied isolation and go visit a working ATC Centre. If you can manage to loosen the mental constraints of 'Captain's Complex', there is a distinct possibility of gaining useful new knowledge!!. Thank Heavens I've retired!

[Herod]

Uplinker and Cornish Jack; two of the better posts, with which I agree. Being long retired, it's a while since I visited ATC, but it was always a valuable learning experience. And CJ, I echo the "thank heavens I've retired!

[Uplinker]

And make the effort to visit the ATC tower at your base airfield as well. I have done this at most bases I have worked at over the years, and without exception, ATC have been very welcoming and positive about pilots visiting them and observing their work and challenges. It also helps us understand the airfield and airspace from ATC’s point of view. Something constructive and interesting to do on your next airport standby ?



Sadly, CRM courses seems still to be regarded by some Captains as a chance to tell the junior cabin crew how difficult the Captain’s job is and impress them with how brave and clever the pilots are ! CRM actually tells us that flying is very much a team activity. All parties involved have an important part to play - certainly ATC - but also the most junior cabin crew or baggage handler, who might have noticed something the Captain didn’t, but which is very important.

[parkfell]

For those junior birdmen who have been following this thread, where both pilots and later ATCOs have contributed, it would come as no surprise if you were left a little confused.

For UK pilots, I refer you to CAP413 para 8.9 which deals with the selection of SSR code 7700.
As the EZY was operating within controlled airspace the crew were communicating with ATC then the possible options are:

1. Retain the assigned SSR code "at the discretion of either the pilot or the controller".

2. Either the pilot selects 7700 or the controller requests the pilot to do so, for the reasons given in the previous threads.

The suggestion that a pilot would refuse to select 7700 when requested to do so by the controller is simply bizarre.
A visit to the CAA trick cyclist might well prove interesting.

I have had two occasions to declare emergency (MAYDAY)

First occasion with a fire warning in the forward hold. Selected 7700 and then declared emergency

Second occasion was following an engine shutdown when the Scottish controller instructed 7700 to be selected.

Why on earth would you not select 7700 when asked to do so?

[Imagegear]

For those junior birdmen who have been following this thread, where both pilots and later ATCOs have contributed, it would come as no surprise if you were left a little confused.

For UK pilots, I refer you to CAP413 para 8.9 which deals with the selection of SSR code 7700.
As the EZY was operating within controlled airspace the crew were communicating with ATC then the possible options are possible:

1. Retain the assigned SSR code "at the discretion of either the pilot or the controller".
2. Either the pilot selects 7700 or the controller requests the pilot to do so, for the reasons given in the previous threads.

The suggestion that a pilot would refuse to select 7700 when requested to do so by the controller is simply bizarre.
A visit to the CAA trick cyclist might well prove interesting.

I have had two occasions to declare emergency (MAYDAY)
First occasion with a fire warning in the forward hold. Selected 7700 and then declared emergency
Second occasion was following an engine shutdown when the Scottish controller instructed 7700 to be selected.
Why on earth would you not select 7700 when asked to do so?


Well with my non-participatory hat on, I might suggest that it is because of the volume of additional paperwork, interviews and unwanted publicity that invariably flows from acknowledging the seriousness of such an event.

..and I am outta here. :E

IG

[hans brinker]

Well with my non-participatory hat on, I might suggest that it is because of the volume of additional paperwork, interviews and unwanted publicity that invariably flows from acknowledging the seriousness of such an event.

..and I am outta here. :E

IG

I have declared an emergency 8 times, and the amount of paperwork and attention was negligible. It did offer me the added protection of not having to worry about "stuff" because of my PIC authority. When in doubt, declare.

[RoyHudd]

Unsurprised about the squawk issue, given it was a birdstrike

[CaptainProp]

Sadly, CRM courses seems still to be regarded by some Captains as a chance to tell the junior cabin crew how difficult the Captain’s job is and impress them with how brave and clever the pilots are !


:}

Hahahaha. Yes, still amazes me that some people have had multiple complex and severe failures and situations over their career yet in 24 years of flying I've only managed to end up in one that could possibly compete with said flying aces.

CP

[EcamSurprise]

Whilst I would do as ATC ask it is interesting that by setting 7700 you are now alerting the majority of Flight Radar users which is the only reason for this thread in the first place.

[DaveReidUK]

Whilst I would do as ATC ask it is interesting that by setting 7700 you are now alerting the majority of Flight Radar users which is the only reason for this thread in the first place.

It's just the 21st Century version of ambulance-chasing. :O