LASER DC-3 crash in Colombia

[Super VC-10]

DC-3 HK-2494 has crashed at San Carlos de Guaroa, Colombia whilst on a flight from San Jose del Guaviare to Villavicencio. All twelve people on board were killed.

https://www.pulzo.com/nacion/estrello-avioneta-departamento-meta-PP657640

[sycamore]

Photo is a DC-9...

[vmandr]

another video here

https://twitter.com/Villavoalreves/status/1104455323446845441

[Raffles S.A.]

Did they perhaps try put it down on the road due to engine problems?

[evansb]

From ASN of all authorities! I do know they have omitted some crashes but allowing this egregious error?

"09-MAR-2019 - LASER Aéro Colombia Douglas DC-3 accident: 12 dead
The Douglas DC-3 aircraft impacted a rural dirt road near Villavicencio under unknown circumstances. The aircraft fuselage forward of the wings was completely destroyed by the post-impact fire. There are no survivors. The authorities .... "



"3" in Spanish is Tres. "9" in Spanish is Nueve. Not even close. Poor handwriting by reporter? "Dos-motor Douglas" airliner? Maybe..

HK-2494 was indeed registered to a SADELCA Douglas DC-3. Aviation Safety Network (ASN) is currently listing this crash as a Douglas DC-3 built in 1945. Note that DC-3 production in 1945 was sidelined for production of military C-47 type(s).

[evansb]

HK-2494:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x833/3t8rv7a_b15ca3729f22a7eb0f65f3049d15d88785f9a66e.jpg

There is a YV-2945 McDonnell Douglas MD-82 (DC-9-82) registered to LASER.

[short bus]

There are a number of older videos on YouTube of HK 2494. Probably not really relevant to this accident, but interesting.

https://youtu.be/sYglqOez9XI

https://youtu.be/fouvO_g7YmQ

[Hotel Tango]

It was operated by L A S E R Aero in a mainly blue livery. There are more current photos of the aircraft on the net.

[Airbubba]

A picture of the crash site from social media.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/941x708/d1psf3jwkaayiuv_655770039bf0640cfe0e0301cbd285670945f9b9.jpg

[The Ancient Geek]

HK-2494 was indeed registered to a SADELCA Douglas DC-3. Aviation Safety Network (ASN) is currently listing this crash as a Douglas DC-3 built in 1945. Note that DC-3 production in 1945 was sidelined for production of military C-47 type(s).

A very substantial proportion of DC3s were originally built as C47s and sold into civillian service after the war.
There are differences including fuel capacity, cargo doors and engine types.

[pattern_is_full]

Aviation Herald says they apparently had time to declare an emergency and then "lost height." Nothing specific yet as to the exact problem. Also reports "DC-3" which yes, can also mean converted C-47.

Crash: Laser Colombia DC3 near Villavicencio on Mar 9th 2019, lost height on approach (http://avherald.com/h?article=4c52f8b2&opt=0)

[atakacs]

Did they operate as vintage aircrafts or actually ran a scheduled service ?

[ehwatezedoing]

Did they operate as vintage aircrafts or actually ran a scheduled service ?



All DC3/C-47 left flying in Colombia are working aircrafts.
Being cargo, pax or combi (mainly combi)
Basler (turbine Dak) are either with their Police or Air Force.

[guadaMB]

How can a flying AC "plunge" into ground WITHOUT a trace at its back???
Seems like it "perched" like a pelicano... :confused:

[Machinbird]

How can a flying AC "plunge" into ground WITHOUT a trace at its back???
Seems like it "perched" like a pelicano
Referencing Airbubba's crash site picture:
Looks like he landed on the road from right to left and either deliberately or inadvertently ground looped 90 degrees to the right.
The vegetation on the "left" side of the road is looking rather beaten up with a short fire trail leading up to the final resting spot of the aircraft.
Could also be that the short fire trail in the direction of probable approach resulted from burning fuel flowing down an irrigation ditch.

Perhaps a bigger tree further back on the road tore open a wing tank and started the fire which eventually engulfed the aircraft

[guadaMB]

I'm sorry but I do not see any trace of THAT plane landing on THAT road.
More to it, the terrain on which the tail of the AC rests is about 1 to 1,5 metres UP the level of the mentioned road.
And between the charred "irrigation ditch" and the road, are many young (and intact) trees.
All the surrounding palm plantation is "untouched"...

[Raptor Systems TT]

Looks as if it just dropped on that spot,probably fell flat in a horizontal spin at a relatively low speed and maybe already on fire..

[guadaMB]

Yep...
Like a fly.
Dropped vertically and put her six legs on ground.
Physics don't help on that theory...

[Machinbird]

For the skyhook theory folks, how high does a DC-3 wing sit during a wheel landing? Might that account for the smaller trees mostly remaining to the right on the crash scene photo while immediately to the left of the crash scene, the trees are much larger?
This is a tail dragger aircraft accident after all. I hope you understand the implications.

Why put a twin engine transport down on a road in the first place? One of the best reasons in this case would be an uncontrollable engine fire. Did they announce the nature of their emergency? It should fly OK on one engine once solidly airborne.

[ehwatezedoing]

Yep...
Like a fly.
Dropped vertically and put her six legs on ground.
Physics don't help on that theory...
DC-3 stall with skydiver video
Look at this video to give you an idea at what Raptor System TT is referring.
Just imagine the ground way much closer.

[Raptor Systems TT]

Look at this video to give you an idea at what Raptor System TT is referring.
Just imagine the ground way much closer.


Thank you,I have an even better example,just need about two more posts to post the link..

[Raptor Systems TT]

Yep...
Like a fly.
Dropped vertically and put her six legs on ground.
Physics don't help on that theory...

Unless it bounced somewhere else before this and it's not in the pic the crash site from what we can see lacks evidence of forward momentum on impact,and I 've got just the fly example for you,gimme a minute..

[atakacs]

DC-3 stall with skydiver video (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFyyLbD-Y7o)
Look at this video to give you an idea at what Raptor System TT is referring.
Just imagine the ground way much closer.
wow... never seen that video - quite spectacular !

[guadaMB]

Simply IMPOSSIBLE if we take that video as a source for discussion.
To just leave both wings on the right place (one broken/charred the other almost intact) and the tail section just sitting on the ground...???
With no forward or lateral traces of movement?
That's not a bike. A DC-3 weights about 8 tons plus cargo & pax (if I can remember correctly).
And MOVING...

[Raptor Systems TT]

Simply IMPOSSIBLE if we take that video as a source for discussion.
To just leave both wings on the right place (one broken/charred the other almost intact) and the tail section just sitting on the ground...???
With no forward or lateral traces of movement?
That's not a bike. A DC-3 weights about 8 tons plus cargo & pax (if I can remember correctly).
And MOVING...

That's the exact same argument against the alternative theory .

Many factors can influence the outcome of obvious physics,and they are also 'physics'..normal physics can be manipulated by other physical factors on the day.

[Raptor Systems TT]

I don't know why my post was deleted yesterday,maybe I spammed on my 10th?

This is the vid I was referring to,they even mention "flat spin" I hope this isn't a fly..
https://youtu.be/99FPfQeC_tA

[Raptor Systems TT]

Double clicked...sorry..:ugh:

[short bus]

Is it possible that the bare area in front if the plane, across the road, is the impact scar?
It would have had to turn 180 after impact. Or is it a coincidence that the only row of palms(?) that doesn't extend right up to the roadway happens to be exactly across from where the plane ended up?

[megan]

Also reports "DC-3" which yes, can also mean converted C-47Reported that itt flew in the Second World War for the Air Force as 42-23838 (built in 1942) and was a C-47-35-DL model. Interesting history, would seem Basler must have resurrected her from the data plate up.42-23838 (MSN 9700) to USAAF Jun 15, 1943. Elmendorf, Alaska Apr 30, 1944. Became NC49538 in Jun 1946 with Mount McKinley Airfreight Company at Anchorage, AK, then N7V. Proctor and Gamble Ltd converted it to a DC-3 in 1950 as N3W, then N3PG. To First National Stores of Somerville, MA Feb 1969 as N308FN. To S. J. Hunter Realty Ltd, Sayville, NY (May 1972), South Bay Electric Supply Co, Inc Patchogue, NY Jul 1972. To Air Cardinal in Canada then CF-EEX with Aladin Safaris, Dorval, QP Jul 29, 1973, Air Caravane leased Jul 1973. To Golfe Air Quebec, Hauterive, QP (1975), then C-FEEX with Golfe Air Quebec then AirGava. Feb 1982 to Century Airlines of Pontiac, Michigan as N2669A. Then to Spain with ARM Paife as EC-187 then EC-FNS Aug 1992. Bought by Mistair as N47FK named "Fifi Kate". To Aces High Flying Museum, Dakota Club, North Weald, Exxes. Starred in "Band of Brothers" with D-Day serial 292912 and other films. Noted in open storage at Lee-on-Solent Airfield, England Oct 2003, wearing false serial 292912. Leased by Aviodrome from Mistair for summer of 2004. N47FK became HK-4700X, ferried thru Opa Locka, Fl May 20101 for Laser Aero Colombia. As HK-4700 on Nov 6, 2010 sustained substantial damage in accident at Puerto Carreno-Guerima Airport, Colombia. No fatalities. Repaired, but crashed May 8, 2014 near San Vicente del Caguan, Colombia. 2 pilots and four crew members killed.

[atakacs]

All DC3/C-47 left flying in Colombia are working aircrafts.
Being cargo, pax or combi (mainly combi)
Basler (turbine Dak) are either with their Police or Air Force.


Interesting. Is there an economic sense to do so when speaking TCO ? It must be quite expensive to maintain those airframes in fly worthy conditions - I'm pretty sure a more modern design could deliver the same services with both lower costs and increased security...

[wrench1]

Word is from friends in Colombia, the aircraft had a engine failure and could not feather prop. While flying to alternate airport could not maintain altitude with remaining engine. Vaya con dios.

[Eric Janson]

Word is from friends in Colombia, the aircraft had a engine failure and could not feather prop. While flying to alternate airport could not maintain altitude with remaining engine. Vaya con dios.

A controlled forced landing should still be possible - the picture appears to show the forward part of the aircraft crushed. This would indicate a possible loss of control with the aircraft crashing with a high vertical speed and low forward speed.

You would reach Vmc before the aircraft stalled.

[Photonic]

Interesting. Is there an economic sense to do so when speaking TCO ? It must be quite expensive to maintain those airframes in fly worthy conditions - I'm pretty sure a more modern design could deliver the same services with both lower costs and increased security...

One of the things that has kept these old Dak's flying in remote areas of South America, is that they can easily land and take off on very rough dirt airstrips. It's like the largest "bush plane" out there. As long as there are spare parts and local mechanics to work on them, it's not easy to replace the amount of cargo and pax they can haul in and out of these remote unpaved airstrips in a single flight.

[capngrog]

DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER I am not an expert on much of anything that really matters and am not current on any aircraft type.

A couple of decades ago, I was a designated Party to an NTSB investigation into the crash of a Cessna 205. The aircraft entered a spin at approximately 3,000 ft. AGL. This spin developed into a flat spin with a nearly vertical descent into a cultivated farm field. All aboard the aircraft were killed by the impact, and an ensuing fire consumed most of the fuselage. The wreckage array of the Laser DC-3 reminds me very much of the array of the wreckage of the C-205. Judging from the undisturbed crop rows in the immediate vicinity of the crash site, there was almost no lateral movement of the C-205 at impact. The photos of the DC-3 crash site reveal little or no terrain disturbance beyond the wreckage itself, indicating a vertical descent. Lack of longitudinal crushing of the fuselage, nacelles and wings indicate to me that the DC-3 impacted in a flat attitude.

The only thing I can think of that would cause a DC-3 to enter a flat spin on approach to landing would be the loss of an engine and the inability to feather the prop of the dead engine. This is what wrench1 reported in his Post #31 above. A windmilling prop offers much more drag than a feathered one, so VMC with a windmilling prop would be significantly higher than that with a feathered prop. Combine that with the likelihood that the DC-3 PF (Pilot Flying) was carrying a lot of power on the good engine, just to stay in the air, sets them up for tragedy. As Eric Janson points out in his Post #32 above, a controlled descent into terrain would have been possible if power to the good engine had been quickly cut. I have less than 10 hours in the DC-3; therefore, I know next to nothing about the airplane, but the old “Goon” (“Gooney Bird”) is a solid airplane with no reputation of biting the pilots in the butt by being overly touchy. I think that the instinct of most pilots is to keep the airplane in the air, but the inability to feather a prop of a twin engine airplane is a game changer.

The way the wreckage sits when viewed in the ground level photo, indicates to me that the DC-3 was in a right-hand flat spin when it impacted, indicating that it was the No. 2 engine that failed (speculation on my part).

[Blohm]

DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER DISCLAIMER I am not an expert on much of anything that really matters and am not current on any aircraft type.

A couple of decades ago, I was a designated Party to an NTSB investigation into the crash of a Cessna 205. The aircraft entered a spin at approximately 3,000 ft. AGL. This spin developed into a flat spin with a nearly vertical descent into a cultivated farm field. All aboard the aircraft were killed by the impact, and an ensuing fire consumed most of the fuselage. The wreckage array of the Laser DC-3 reminds me very much of the array of the wreckage of the C-205. Judging from the undisturbed crop rows in the immediate vicinity of the crash site, there was almost no lateral movement of the C-205 at impact. The photos of the DC-3 crash site reveal little or no terrain disturbance beyond the wreckage itself, indicating a vertical descent. Lack of longitudinal crushing of the fuselage, nacelles and wings indicate to me that the DC-3 impacted in a flat attitude.

The only thing I can think of that would cause a DC-3 to enter a flat spin on approach to landing would be the loss of an engine and the inability to feather the prop of the dead engine. This is what wrench1 reported in his Post #31 above. A windmilling prop offers much more drag than a feathered one, so VMC with a windmilling prop would be significantly higher than that with a feathered prop. Combine that with the likelihood that the DC-3 PF (Pilot Flying) was carrying a lot of power on the good engine, just to stay in the air, sets them up for tragedy. As Eric Janson points out in his Post #32 above, a controlled descent into terrain would have been possible if power to the good engine had been quickly cut. I have less than 10 hours in the DC-3; therefore, I know next to nothing about the airplane, but the old “Goon” (“Gooney Bird”) is a solid airplane with no reputation of biting the pilots in the butt by being overly touchy. I think that the instinct of most pilots is to keep the airplane in the air, but the inability to feather a prop of a twin engine airplane is a game changer.

The way the wreckage sits when viewed in the ground level photo, indicates to me that the DC-3 was in a right-hand flat spin when it impacted, indicating that it was the No. 2 engine that failed (speculation on my part). I like your asessment. Had a friend who fatally crashed a seneca in the Haition mountains. All like you described All six anboard were recovered. All had legs seperated from their body, and five were decapitated from the severe vertical impact.
Left throttle mixture and prop in shutdownwn position, right hand throttle bend outward to the right at about mid position...pilots hand on impact forced the bend. While bodies in this DC 3 are charred by fire, they will still give us additional cues. I have always loved radials, was on DC 6 and 7's in Central America.

[wrench1]

Interesting. Is there an economic sense to do so when speaking TCO ? It must be quite expensive to maintain those airframes in fly worthy conditions - I'm pretty sure a more modern design could deliver the same services with both lower costs and increased security...
Actually, there's not a modern equivalent that can provide the same services, at the same costs, and operate out of the same environment. And you don't need to go to SA to see it. Old radial powered aircraft dominate the off-grid (unimproved runway) scene in Alaska and parts of Canada. Most heavy fuel and freight deliveries are currently handled by DC-3, DC-6, and C-47 aircraft. The only manufacturer I'm aware of that has designed and built a more modern off-grid aircraft is Pilatus with the PC12 and PC24, but it can't haul what the old ones haul.

[capngrog]

Actually, there's not a modern equivalent that can provide the same services, at the same costs, and operate out of the same environment. And you don't need to go to SA to see it. Old radial powered aircraft dominate the off-grid (unimproved runway) scene in Alaska and parts of Canada. Most heavy fuel and freight deliveries are currently handled by DC-3, DC-6, and C-47 aircraft. The only manufacturer I'm aware of that has designed and built a more modern off-grid aircraft is Pilatus with the PC12 and PC24, but it can't haul what the old ones haul.

I agree, but let's not forget the Cessna C-208 Caravan and the Dehavilland DHC-4 Caribou and DHC-6 Twin Otter. I think the Caribous are scarce as hen's teeth, but with the good ol' P&W R-2000s, it could haul the freight from unimproved air fields. Do you know whether or not there are any Curtiss C-46s still flying up in Alaska?

[wrench1]

Do you know whether or not there are any Curtiss C-46s still flying up in Alaska?
Yes there are. My "C-47" note above should have read "C-46." There are several operated by Everts Air Cargo in Fairbanks and I usually see one of them every summer as they deliver fuel where I stay. Unfortunately, the "Salmon Ella" had an incident last summer due to an engine failure with a full load of diesel and gasoline. Thankfully, it ended on a good note but is undergoing repairs now ( https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20180716-0 )
As to the 208 and Twotter, they just don't cut it with a load of 6"x6"x16' beams like a DC-3 can. Haven't seen any Caribous flying around, but we had a CASA 212 and a DC-6 make a stop this past summer. There's several L-382s around for the really big stuff, but I believe they don't run with gravel kits anymore and won't land on unimproved strips. I also heard of a CV-240 operating.

[DirtyProp]

Actually, there's not a modern equivalent that can provide the same services, at the same costs, and operate out of the same environment. And you don't need to go to SA to see it. Old radial powered aircraft dominate the off-grid (unimproved runway) scene in Alaska and parts of Canada. Most heavy fuel and freight deliveries are currently handled by DC-3, DC-6, and C-47 aircraft. The only manufacturer I'm aware of that has designed and built a more modern off-grid aircraft is Pilatus with the PC12 and PC24, but it can't haul what the old ones haul.

The Antonov AN-2 might be a close second, but I don't think it's certified over there (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[wrench1]

The Antonov AN-2 might be a close second, but I don't think it's certified over there (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
You're correct on FAA ops. The best you get last I heard was an Experimental AWC under Exibition which keeps you out of the for hire market.

[Dave Sharpe]

As somebody mentioned the C46 there was a pax variant on sale with a well known broker from a South American Country who also had a DC3 for sale -although slightly biased being a Brit the cargo 748 was a good equivalent for a DC 3-----

[Pilot DAR]

Have we had enough discussion of all the similar cargo aircraft types, which is not really relevant to this accident?

[ehwatezedoing]

I was in Colombia a few years ago and saw this particular airframe taking off from Puerto Carreño (got a picture)
They barely cleared whatever trees was there at the end and carried on a staggering positive rate of climb... On two engines!



That seemed standard SOP.

[wrench1]

The prelim report is out in Spanish. It mentions an engine problem with prop feather issue.
Listado Accidentes 2019 - All Documents (http://www.aerocivil.gov.co/autoridad-de-la-aviacion-civil/investigacion/Listado%20Accidentes%202019/Forms/AllItems.aspx)

[stevef]

. There may be a parallel with the 1996 Dutch Dakota Association DC3 accident in which there was an issue with the feathering pump solenoid and the crew didn't pull the button out to prevent the prop unfeathering itself.