Brexit Expired JAR License Trap?

[paulo]

Apologies if this has been done before.

With hard Brexit at least, the CAA leaves EASA in two months.

For those of us with expired JAR licenses, we can still convert to EASA before exit day.

After exit day, it won’t be possible for the CAA to convert an expired JAR license to EASA. Nor will it be possible for the CAA to issue an EASA license for ab initio.

Is the NPPL still a thing? [edit: no, not in a general sense. Limited to edge cases like microlight, vintage]

Also, soft Brexit... anyone know if the current transition agreement keeps us in EASA for the period?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I think that if #brexit isn't stopped most of us will have far more to worry about than our hobby flying.

[paulo]

I think that if #brexit isn't stopped most of us will have far more to worry about than our hobby flying.

Indeed.

I’m trying not to vent my personal feelings.

I’m expired JAR and now trying to work out my rescue plan.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

trying to work out my rescue plan.
Get a commercial flight out of the country. Before March 29th, obvs. If you can get a seat.

You do have an Irish passport don't you?

[paulo]

Get a commercial flight out of the country. Before March 29th, obvs. If you can get a seat.

You do have an Irish passport don't you?

I *have* flirted with the idea of bailing out (to Berlin) and taking my chances. Over the last year four friends have already left for Germany.

[Fly-by-Wife]

Over the last year four friends have already left for Germany.

Assuming - not unreasonably - that such folk are pro-Europe, it seems ironic that Remainers are leaving while Leavers are remaining.

[ChickenHouse]

What is the evidence Brexit equals leaving EASA? EASA is basically independent of EU.

[paulo]

What is the evidence Brexit equals leaving EASA? EASA is basically independent of EU.

Check the CAA website, regarding no-deal:

"Pilots with UK licences who want to fly EU-registered aircraft postBrexit would need to transfer their licence to another EASA member state before Brexit, or seek a second licence from an EASA member state."

Additionally, there is no reference to EASA in the current 'soft brexit' withdrawal agreement. :(

Practical example...

Easyjet are getting all their pilots flying non G reg to transfer their licenses to Austria.

The government had aspirations to stay in EASA, but no deal has been done.

[TelsBoy]

Why not just convert to EASA? Most of us did this years ago. Think you've left it a bit late in the day in all honesty. Judging from some of the posts all this is is an excuse for an Anti-Brexit rant.

[paulo]

Why not just convert to EASA? Most of us did this years ago. Think you've left it a bit late in the day in all honesty. Judging from some of the posts all this is is an excuse for an Anti-Brexit rant.

I gave up flying over 15 years ago - only just decided to go back to it.

As such, I’ve had no reason to even know about EASA conversion until now.

Bad timing eh!

[paulo]

Oh dear.

This CAA alert just landed in my email.

I think it confirms what I've been hearing elsewhere... FCL are up to their eyes in it. Although in this case the advice is regarding transfer applications, I'm assuming it's same admin team as conversions and other license issues... everything is backed up.

Hopefully there'll be a Brexit extension long enough for me to get my conversion through.

"The CAA has said it cannot guarantee that licence transfer applications submitted to the CAA after January 1 will have been processed successfully by us and will have been assessed so that the pilot can be issued with a medical certificate by the ‘new’ NAA by March 29, the scheduled date of the UK’s exit. All applications are being processed as quickly as possible by the UK CAA."

[Exup]

Cant speak for the pilots side but it took the engineering guys about 8 weeks to send my file to the new authority.

[paulo]

Cant speak for the pilots side but it took the engineering guys about 8 weeks to send my file to the new authority.



Useful to know. I’m hoping conversions go through faster.

When did you submit?

[BONES_]

Cant speak for the pilots side but it took the engineering guys about 8 weeks to send my file to the new authority.

8 weeks to transfer my pilot licence too: unfortunately it takes very long for the UK CAA to release the required paperwork for licence transfer (doc 155). They are simply overwhelmed.

[homonculus]

8 weeks to transfer my pilot licence too: unfortunately it takes very long for the UK CAA to release the required paperwork for license transfer (doc 155). They are simply overwhelmed.

So please remind us how long the CAA took to move bits of paper before the Brexit thingee...... What evidence do you have of them being overwhelmed???? Telsboy's post is bang on. The sun will rise on 30th March. The EU has already passed enabling regulations for aircraft to continue to fly. Lettuces will continue to arrive from Spain

[BillieBob]

EASA is basically independent of EU What on earth gave you that idea? EASA is an EU Agency, established by EU regulation and 23% funded by the EU. Not much independence there.

[TelsBoy]

In my experience, the CAA have never been quick at anything. Although that said when I renewed my SEP last year it only took a couple of weeks to come through, which was a pleasant surprise. In the past it's taken much longer.

Regarding EASA and the EU, BillieBob has it spot on.

[paulo]

So please remind us how long the CAA took to move bits of paper before the Brexit thingee...... What evidence do you have of them being overwhelmed???? Telsboy's post is bang on. The sun will rise on 30th March. The EU has already passed enabling regulations for aircraft to continue to fly. Lettuces will continue to arrive from Spain

The CAA have stated that applications recieved after 1st of January may not be processed in time for the potential non negotiated exit date.

That’s a potential three month lead time. My initial - JAA took the CAA just 3 weeks.

I can see it in my log book, taking the skills test pass date, and then the subsequent license issue date.

[TelsBoy]

I hope you can get it all sorted Paul. Probably best speaking to your local flying club as I'd imagine you'll need some dual time before doing any test. Unless you can cram it in within a couple of weeks you'll probably be looking at being re-licensed well after the Brexit date.

As for what license you'll get, or if Brexit will even happen on the stated date... fornicated if I know.

[paulo]

I hope you can get it all sorted Paul. Probably best speaking to your local flying club as I'd imagine you'll need some dual time before doing any test. Unless you can cram it in within a couple of weeks you'll probably be looking at being re-licensed well after the Brexit date.

As for what license you'll get, or if Brexit will even happen on the stated date... fornicated if I know.

My current plan is to apply for the conversion straight away (I want to grandfather in my aeros), and then cross my fingers. By the sounds of it, it’s won’t complete by March 29th, but at least I’ll have started the process. The CAA will have to have some plan for new licenses / conversions post EASA, even though they haven’t yet announced it.

Then in the meantime - as you say - start getting the dual hours in, to be up to speed for an LPC. I have some catching up to do after all these years!

[BONES_]

So please remind us how long the CAA took to move bits of paper before the Brexit thingee...... What evidence do you have of them being overwhelmed???? Telsboy's post is bang on. The sun will rise on 30th March. The EU has already passed enabling regulations for aircraft to continue to fly. Lettuces will continue to arrive from Spain

You seem a bit tense, chill out...

No one here has claimed lettuces will stop coming from Spain... and yes, aircraft will continue to fly after 29th March 2019. However, the CAA themselves are admitting they are experiencing high levels of workload. You don’t have to travel much in time to realise few years ago the standard turnaround time for licence issue was 10 working days. And I remember receiving my CPL and eventually my ATPL within that time frame or so. But recently it has all slowed down: I believe the standard turnaround time is now 4-5 weeks. Many things have changed recently down in Gatwick: e-licensing, counter service (day service), staffing level and experience. The increased workload to generate doc 155 is certainly not helping.

But don’t take my word for it! Feel free to speak to any examiner, instructor or inspector. Or AME. Or maybe just check the CAA website. I’ll even hyperlink it for you too https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...-applications/ (https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Applications/Process/Our-processing-of-applications/)

You are welcome

[BEagle]

My original PPL application was sent off on Friday evening and I had my licence from the Board of Trade the following Tuesday. That was back before there were computers, fax machines or even national STD phones! But that was when government bodies issued licences and there were commensurate staffing levels.

Nowadays the CAA has to make a (small) profit and staffing levels have been reduced to manage a 10 working day turnaround time under normal circumstances. But when they're suddenly overwhelmed by 4000+ SOLI transfer applications, as well as having to work on 'hard' UK/EU exit contingencies, it's hardly surprising that SCC cannot provide a normal service.

SOLI transferred GA pilots will lose IR(R) privileges and that includes FI / FE. Revalidation of Part-FCL licences might not be possible in the UK if we leave EASA, as revalidation / renewal / assessment of competence / seminar requirements will need to be conducted either in an EASA MS or elsewhere if an FI / FE has been given approval to conduct training outside an EASA MS.....

Hopefully the UK/EU exit farce won't lead to the UK leaving EASA, perhaps just carrying on under the same terms as Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland, which are all non-EU EASA MS.