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View Full Version : EasyJet to transfer 1400 pilots licence from UK to Austria as a precaution to brexit


jiggi
14th Sep 2018, 20:33
easyJet (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/U2) (U2, London Luton (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/1893)) has said it would assist its 1,400 pilots to relocate their licences from the United Kingdom jurisdiction to Austria as a part of preparations for the worst-case scenario no-deal Brexit, Air Transport World has reported.

"Depending on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, UK-issued pilot licenses, after the UK leaves the European Union (EU), could be no longer valid within the EU. That’s why we have worked with the UK’s Civil Aviation Authority’s and Austro Control to come up with a solution," the airline spokesperson said.


https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/70816-easyjet-shifts-pilots-licences-from-the-uk-to-austria

BluSdUp
14th Sep 2018, 22:46
So the chaos has started.
A prominent UK AME told me with regards to UK medicals that there would be EU approval for some of them, if it looks like a Crash Out!
If I understand him right!
For anyone with a UK medical and EU licence I would strongly recommend dobbelchecking ASAP.

This could get crowded and ugly for some.
Lets hope not!

regards
Cpt B

SWBKCB
15th Sep 2018, 12:41
Would their Austrian licences be valid in the UK?

Denti
15th Sep 2018, 13:29
Would their Austrian licences be valid in the UK?
In a no deal scenario most likely not. If you mean that someone with an EU license could fly a G-registered plane. However, of course it would be possible to continue to fly on planes registered in the EASA states. It just would be the same as flying to any other third country out of the EU, depending on individual traffic rights of course, but that is more an operators problem than a crew one.

Denti
15th Sep 2018, 15:59
Those pilots can also get a UK national licence and transfer their main licence to another EASA member state keeping both privileges I believe
Well, no.

At the moment the UK is still in EASA and a pilot can hold only one EASA license. UK national licenses (at least for those regulated by EASA) can not exist until the UK leaves the EASA/EU. Once left, the pilots are ICAO licensed in a third country and would have to do the same stuff every third country pilot has to do, which is write the 14 exams and prove their practical experience. Which could include simulator checks for each type they want to have on that license. As usual, that is for a no deal scenario.

msjh
15th Sep 2018, 16:01
Well, no.

At the moment the UK is still in EASA and a pilot can hold only one EASA license. UK national licenses (at least for those regulated by EASA) can not exist until the UK leaves the EASA/EU. Once left, the pilots are ICAO licensed in a third country and would have to do the same stuff every third country pilot has to do, which is write the 14 exams and prove their practical experience. Which could include simulator checks for each type they want to have on that license. As usual, that is for a no deal scenario.

In reality, we all know that's not going to happen. There is no prospect that flights between the UK and other countries will cease on March 30 2019.

SOPS
15th Sep 2018, 16:11
This is getting stupid. I hold an Australian ATPL and a JAA ATPL and a UAE ATPL.

I could ( now retired thank God)..happily fly to any EU country I wanted to. What will stop a pilot with a UK licence fling into Europe?? it was done without too much trouble before there was an EU. ( And I lived in Europe for 17 years so I have an interest)

TURIN
15th Sep 2018, 16:22
We had 70 years of CAA/ARB experience and an organisational structure to handle self regulation. We don't have that capability at the moment as it is all done by EASA. Whether or not the UK CAA can entice experienced people to leave EASA and help run the CAA again remains to be seen, but if they don't start manning up soon it will be a problem. Not just for pilots, Engineers and ATCOs will be in the same boat. As will everything else the CAA used to do.

Denti
15th Sep 2018, 18:01
In reality, we all know that's not going to happen. There is no prospect that flights between the UK and other countries will cease on March 30 2019.
Well, that is what most hope. But you cannot plan on hope, which is why easyJet apparently works on splitting the big half of its operation in another two parts, making the company basically three separate entities. The already existing part is of course easyJet Switzerland which is already separated from the rest although switzerland is actually an EASA member, but not inside the EU.

bringbackthe80s
15th Sep 2018, 22:00
In reality, we all know that's not going to happen. There is no prospect that flights between the UK and other countries will cease on March 30 2019.

You are very welcome to risk it, as nothing is going to happen.
Personally, in the same fashion as when I am in the aircraft, I would opt for a different tactic!

fa2fi
15th Sep 2018, 23:11
Does anyone know what Ryanair's plans are vis-ŕ-vis pilot licencing? They're the worlds fifth largest airline with a quarter of their fleet based in the UK and have applied for a UK AOC so I'd like to know.

Tandemrotor
16th Sep 2018, 00:51
Well.

As far as MOL is concerned. (An EU airline with a HUGE interest in this!) He believes airlines may be grounded for a day.

Or two?

Ain’t catastrophe is it?

Tandemrotor
16th Sep 2018, 00:55
[QUOTE=Tandemrotor;10250146]Well.

As far as MOL is concerned. (An EU airline with a HUGE interest in this!) He believes airlines may perhaps be grounded for a day?

Or maybe two?

Ain’t catastrophe is it?

So in 6 months tiime. Let’s see whether anyone here is commenting hysterically!?

i suspect they are!

CaptainProp
16th Sep 2018, 07:09
Just to be clear, it’s not about being able to fly between EASA countries and UK post brexit. The question is wether or not you can fly G registered and / or EASA registered aircraft on your EASA / UK license. As far as the right to operate between EU countries and U.K. post brexit goes, this has nothing to do with pilot’s licenses.

CP

Longhitter
16th Sep 2018, 08:46
This is all posturing like the ‘dreaded’ millennium bug that did absolutely nothing. It is stupid rumour-mongering by buffoons and ill-intended numpties at the EU. Absolutely pathetic and a non-event, unless you are an EU bureaucrat who wants to make problems rather than find solutions. One of the many reasons just to get out and leave them to it.

Unlike the millennium bug this is something that WILL happen as long as the U.K. maintains its red line of not accepting the ECJ authority, in this case as the body tasked with deciding how EASA rules need to be interpreted.

You want out, this is a logical consequence. If the U.K. maintains its stubborn attitude you have only yourselves to blame. Bed, lie, in it.

bringbackthe80s
16th Sep 2018, 08:46
Yes, and just to be even clearer, it’s not about politics, rights agreements etc..it is about the (remote to be honest) possibility that your hard earned ATPL valid in the whole of Europe, could now be valid in ONE country only. You cannot apply for any jobs that flies non G- aircraft. You would be exactly the same as a pilot with a namibian or guatemalan licence.
To even considering risking something like this requires serious patriotism!

Bowmore
16th Sep 2018, 09:10
Why would UK not be a member of EASA after Brexit? For example, Iceland and Norway are, and they are not members of EU. And almost forgot, Switzerland, too.

bringbackthe80s
16th Sep 2018, 09:17
Why would UK not be a member of EASA after Brexit? For example, Iceland and Norway are, and they are not members of EU. And almost forgot, Switzerland, too.

It’s like talking to a wall.
Keep the uk licence and medical then! Be my guest

FlyingStone
16th Sep 2018, 09:38
Why would UK not be a member of EASA after Brexit? For example, Iceland and Norway are, and they are not members of EU. And almost forgot, Switzerland, too.

All of them are part of European Economic Area (EEA), which means they allow free movement of EEA nationals and respect decisions of ECJ, all of which seems to be a big no-no for the current UK government.

Longhitter
16th Sep 2018, 09:44
Why would UK not be a member of EASA after Brexit? For example, Iceland and Norway are, and they are not members of EU. And almost forgot, Switzerland, too.

Iceland and Norway are EEA members, Switzerland is not but has an elaborate set of agreements with the EU. What they have in common is that THEY ALL ACCEPT THE SUPREMACY OF THE ECJ IN MATTERS OF INTERPRETING EU AND EASA LAWS AND REGULATIONS. One of the UK Governments red lines is that they REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE SUPREMACY OF THE ECJ. Unless they make a significant climbdown, accept that the ECJ is the highest authority in deciding how EASA rules are to be interpreted AND get the EU to agree to have the UK in EASA but not part of the common (aviation) market: only then will your UK-issued licence still be valid to fly EASA-registered aircraft.

P.S. FS beat me to it ;o)

goeasy
16th Sep 2018, 10:09
Be interesting to see what EASA budget looks like without UK payments. Interesting times

Longhitter
16th Sep 2018, 10:13
The cost of EASA will increase slightly for the 27 remaining members, which will be no reason for them to quit the EU or EASA. The common view in the UK seems to be that the EU will somehow cease to function without it. Challenging? Yes. Up until now the EU 27 are remarkably unified in their postion towards Brexit, though...

Daysleeper
16th Sep 2018, 10:15
Be interesting to see what EASA budget looks like without UK payments. Interesting times

And to see what UK CAA budget looks like without payments for all those Easyjet hulls and crew. Expect a sharp rise in fees for those left in the UK.

Gordomac
16th Sep 2018, 10:15
Is it not going to be ever so simple, again, like in the old days ? My UK licence authorised me to fly UK registered aircraft, anywhere in the world. Forget all this JAA , EASA , nonsense. If I wanted to get a job in the USA,I would need a FAA licence to fly N registered aircraft. I , one time , obtained a one-off FAA validation for ferry work or delivery but that was it. Want the licence ? Do the full ground-school and all the exams. We did the same to all others. Want the Uk Licence ? Do all the groundschool & writtens.

When Air Europe went to the wall, we were training the Italian division. But to fly UK registered aircraft, (AE-UK) the AE-Italians had to do all the writtens. Mamamia, poor devils ! They were a lot kinder to us when a select few were given jobs in AE Italy after the AE-Uk demise. We just had to do Air Law but that was nodded & winked away. Quickly, we were flying Italian Registered aircraft on UK licences with Italian Validation. My prized Uk licence was validated for Belgian registered aircraft for a Belgian job. Belgian ATPL given with no requirement for exams. In Holland, Dutch law was required. Transavia gave us a one week course, Dutch Law exam ( I failed and an Oral was required...but that's another story....), passed & given a Dutch validation to fly Dutch registered aircraft all over the world. Finally, Oman just looked at my admired Uk licences and I was quickly ( we all were) given Oman ATPL to fly Oman Registered aircraft, all over the world. That was GulfAir. When the Bahrainis introduced their own CAA and Bahrain registered aircraft, Bahrain ATPL was awarded on verification of the Oman Licence. There was never a validation on the UK Licence but an issue of the local licence on presentation of the Uk one. See how easy it is and has nothing to do with geographical airspace..

Post Brixit,let's just get on with a UK CAA/ARB and fly UK registered aircraft anywhere in the world. It really is that simple. Should you want to fly foreign registered aircraft, you would need the issue of that Country's licence either by validation of the Uk licence or whatever they require.

Oh just remembered, AE casualties who secured employment in Japan had to do the full Jap ATPL. Those who went to Condor, equally, full German ATP. Blimey, made mu Dutch Oral quite a pleasant experience !

Joe_K
16th Sep 2018, 10:25
This is getting stupid. (...) What will stop a pilot with a UK licence fling into Europe?? it was done without too much trouble before there was an EU. ( And I lived in Europe for 17 years so I have an interest)

Perhaps the fact that there are currently no "UK licences", only UK-issued EASA licences...

The CAA's planning assumptions for a "non-negotiated EU exit" are here: https://www.caa.co.uk/our-work/about-us/eu-exit/ and include:

- There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.
- UK issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but will no longer be recognised by EASA for use on EASA Member State-registered aircraft.

Of course there may still be a negotiated exit deal, despite current efforts by a bunch of politicians to force a "No Deal" exit.

Dan Winterland
16th Sep 2018, 12:08
Perhaps the fact that there are currently no "UK licences", only UK-issued EASA licences...

There are. I have two licences issued by the CAA. One says 'European Union Flight Crew Licence on the header page, the other says 'United Kingdom Airline Transport Pilot's Licence''. When I converted my JAR ATPL into an EASA ATPL, I ticked the box asking if I wanted a UK Licence issued at the same time. It cost nothing extra.

aterpster
17th Sep 2018, 01:49
Let's say I am an American Airline pilot based in Dallas. My U.S. ATP is valid for me to fly to any AAL station in the world (and authorized alternate), provided I have the requisite training from AAL.

Why should this situation be different?

Longhitter
17th Sep 2018, 05:44
...but only on an aircraft registered in the US, and you can’t operate from one outstation to another.

For EZY pilots based in the UK it means that they can no longer operate W-patterns, triangles or intra-European flights if the U.K. stops being an EASA member state. Also, half the fleet of aircraft is EASA registered and the other half in the U.K. That complicates planning significantly.

Denti
17th Sep 2018, 07:20
Let's say I am an American Airline pilot based in Dallas. My U.S. ATP is valid for me to fly to any AAL station in the world (and authorized alternate), provided I have the requisite training from AAL.
Why should this situation be different?

It is of course, as the US is just one country, the EASA states are currently 28 different countries. As EU law in this case supersedes national law there is only one legal kind of license available, the EASA license. And that allows a pilot (or mechanic) licensed that way to operate on airplanes registered in any of those 28 states. When they UK leaves that union without a deal, they will also leave all over 700 treaties that binds the EU including the one on EASA and EASA licensing. Which means, that quite legally the current licenses won't be legal anymore (which is why the CAA prepares to re-issue them as UK ones), and of course holders of UK issued EASA licenses won't be able to work outside of the UK anymore except on UK aircraft as an outstation. As most larger EU low cost carriers are pan-european trans-national airlines that affects them quite a bit, after all in the EU it is possible to work everywhere in those 28 countries on any of their aircraft with the full rights of freedom. And as a consequence easyJet is in the process of splitting the airline into an EU part, a UK part and already has a Swiss part as switzerland follows most of the EU regulations (including membership in EASA), but is not a member of the EU.To prepare that they have so far transferred something over 100 aircraft to an EU registry (they did choose austria, as the regulator is a commercial company and very easy to work with depending on monetary commitments). Next will be pilots and maintenance is outsourced anyway to local providers that are already EU licensed. Interesting thing is, easyJet is by now the biggest Austrian airline, but has no base in Austria, just some office space.

infrequentflyer789
17th Sep 2018, 11:55
Which means, that quite legally the current licenses won't be legal anymore (which is why the CAA prepares to re-issue them as UK ones)

Well, this is what Sky News says and EASA implies. The CAA have, however, publicly stated that existing CAA/EASA licences will automatically convert to UK with no re-issuing at all (and they deny any plan to re-issue).

If this difference of opinion is real (rather than manufactured in the media and places like this) then things could get really interesting all the way to ICAO dispute resolution. We may not find out until Brexit day because the EU commission have banned EASA from talking directly to CAA to work out if they actually do have a fundamental disagreement or if it's merely other people misunderstanding.

Denti
17th Sep 2018, 15:24
Well, this is what Sky News says and EASA implies. The CAA have, however, publicly stated that existing CAA/EASA licences will automatically convert to UK with no re-issuing at all (and they deny any plan to re-issue).

If this difference of opinion is real (rather than manufactured in the media and places like this) then things could get really interesting all the way to ICAO dispute resolution. We may not find out until Brexit day because the EU commission have banned EASA from talking directly to CAA to work out if they actually do have a fundamental disagreement or if it's merely other people misunderstanding.
Yes, that puzzled me as well. I don't have a UK issued EASA license, however, on my continental one it says on the front very large "European Union, Issued in accordance with Part-FCL, EASA Form 141 issue 2". Of course that would be invalid the moment my country would leave the EU as it is clearly based on EU and EASA regulations which do not apply anymore at that moment.

Skyjob
17th Sep 2018, 23:53
Yes, that puzzled me as well. I don't have a UK issued EASA license, however, on my continental one it says on the front very large "European Union, Issued in accordance with Part-FCL, EASA Form 141 issue 2". Of course that would be invalid the moment my country would leave the EU as it is clearly based on EU and EASA regulations which do not apply anymore at that moment.
Unless, of course, the CAA and UK government will simply agree to accept that licences issued under the EASA regulations in prior years will be allowed to be used by crew (initially or indefinitely).

Daysleeper
18th Sep 2018, 06:23
Unless, of course, the CAA and UK government will simply agree to accept that licences issued under the EASA regulations in prior years will be allowed to be used by crew (initially or indefinitely).

The UK CAA might accept them and say the EU reference is “cosmetic”... but their statement failed to mention that other States agreed with them. I wouldn’t want to be the first to present an ex-easa ATPL on a ramp check outside the UK post-brexit.

gcal
18th Sep 2018, 08:15
The UK CAA might accept them and say the EU reference is “cosmetic”... but their statement failed to mention that other States agreed with them. I wouldn’t want to be the first to present an ex-easa ATPL on a ramp check outside the UK post-brexit.
Truth is nobody has the faintest clue what is going to happen and at the rate civil servants are abandoning the Brexit Dept? Then there'll be very few left to make any kind of decision.
I admire EZY for facing what may happen and taking logical steps to avoid future problems.

CaptainProp
18th Sep 2018, 12:06
Truth is nobody has the faintest clue what is going to happen and at the rate civil servants are abandoning the Brexit Dept? Then there'll be very few left to make any kind of decision.
I admire EZY for facing what may happen and taking logical steps to avoid future problems.

Yes, but to be honest any responsible pan-European company would have to do the same. Anything else would be completely irresponsible towards the shareholders AND employees.

CP

infrequentflyer789
18th Sep 2018, 13:23
The UK CAA might accept them and say the EU reference is “cosmetic”... but their statement failed to mention that other States agreed with them.

If the presence of EU references on UK-issued documents somehow invalidates those documents post-brexit, then every current UK passport also becomes invalid - just the first example that comes to mind. History suggests that won't happen - we didn't, for example, re-issue passports when we joined the EEC nor when the EEC became the EU (and at that time passport had EEC references on) - but then there is no exact historical precedent for brexit.

So, yes, it would be good if this could be clarified with the other states - unfortunately it appears that the EU commission objects to the UK doing that and instructs other states not to answer. Similarly EASA is apparently barred from talking to the CAA. Maybe you could get an answer from the commission...

I wouldn’t want to be the first to present an ex-easa ATPL on a ramp check outside the UK post-brexit.

That's the real issue isn't it - who wants to be the test case, free six month stay in a foreign jail not of your choice (I hear Greece is really nice...) included (or however long it takes for the governments to start talking again).

Icarus2001
18th Sep 2018, 13:33
Maybe time for ICAO to grow a pair and stop this nonsense and insist on ICAO licences worldwide. Why does an Australian ATPL holder need to do fourteen exams to get a CAA/EASA licence to fly the same type in Europe when an EU/UK pilot can come to Australia and just do air law? That same pilot can go to the middle east or HK and be issued a local ATPL after passing air law.

ICAO where are you? ONE international ICAO ATPL. The bloody laws of physics do not change depending on jurisdiction.

Bigpants
18th Sep 2018, 20:50
If I was not allowed to ever fly to CDG after Brexit and no EU pilots were allowed to fly into London Airports I would be quite happy with that.

All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?

papazulu
18th Sep 2018, 21:56
If I was not allowed to ever fly to CDG after Brexit and no EU pilots were allowed to fly into London Airports I would be quite happy with that.

All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?

Well, that should be easily done: just convince Theresa, Boris and the other sidekickers to swallow the bitter pill and do as Switzerland, Norway etc have done. What do they expect? To cut themselves a different deal? How long before the other EASA, no-EU members start to kick their can down the road? It is an utter mess but for once I don't see why the EU should step back on the UK whine when the other 27 members are doing just fine with EASA.

I also have to ditch my UK CAA license but, after a recent SICKENING experience with them, perhaps this is the only sensible thing to do. After all there is some evidence of the orchestra still playing while the boat is sinking...

PZ :rolleyes:

papazulu
18th Sep 2018, 22:47
Can someone please share how long does it take to transfer the UK CAA EASA license to the Austro Control EASA or similar?
Also, how long can it cost.
Thanks

If you look up on the IAA's website you figure out it might take anything from 12 to 14 weeks. Probably a bit longer to move to an AESA (Spanish) and it will set you back 170-ish euros. They all have one common bottleneck, tho. It is called UK CAA, they are those who will receive the transfer request and that will have to provide evidence of your ratings and medical records. The bad news is that their licensing office is in total disarray as we speak. Wish us all good luck.

PZ :ugh:

Icarus2001
19th Sep 2018, 03:30
Because ICAO is the lowest common denominator. Some state licences meant something; showed you’d achieved an admirable standard. Now, it’s all horseshit. The problem with the lowest common denominator is how low it turns out to be, in modern times.

Let me guess, you are from the UK? You know there is no Empire anymore right? Those MBEs and OBEs seem a little odd with no Empire to be an officer in. Anyway, enough fun. There is some truth to what you say about standards but that is merely another reason to have an ICAO standard licence. Airports and regulatory agencies around the world are audited by ICAO so licensing could be the same. Australia has a fairly tough exam system, not many get through with a "kellogs licence". People decry the US system of having the bank of questions available to peruse but they dont seem to crash aeroplanes at any greater rate than Europe do they?
It just beggars belief that the Qantas plots flying into Heathrow on the B787 are not suitable to fly a G registered B787 in the Europe unless they do the fourteen exams. What problem is that solving? How does it enhance safety? So an ICAO licence system which has a strong syallabus and exam system makes more sense. Followed by a jurisdiction specific Air Law exam but again, as time moves on the various difference in air law are becoming less and less.

a350pilots
19th Sep 2018, 19:37
Is it not going to be ever so simple, again, like in the old days ? My UK licence authorised me to fly UK registered aircraft, anywhere in the world. Forget all this JAA , EASA , nonsense. If I wanted to get a job in the USA,I would need a FAA licence to fly N registered aircraft. I , one time , obtained a one-off FAA validation for ferry work or delivery but that was it. Want the licence ? Do the full ground-school and all the exams. We did the same to all others. Want the Uk Licence ? Do all the groundschool & writtens.

When Air Europe went to the wall, we were training the Italian division. But to fly UK registered aircraft, (AE-UK) the AE-Italians had to do all the writtens. Mamamia, poor devils ! They were a lot kinder to us when a select few were given jobs in AE Italy after the AE-Uk demise. We just had to do Air Law but that was nodded & winked away. Quickly, we were flying Italian Registered aircraft on UK licences with Italian Validation. My prized Uk licence was validated for Belgian registered aircraft for a Belgian job. Belgian ATPL given with no requirement for exams. In Holland, Dutch law was required. Transavia gave us a one week course, Dutch Law exam ( I failed and an Oral was required...but that's another story....), passed & given a Dutch validation to fly Dutch registered aircraft all over the world. Finally, Oman just looked at my admired Uk licences and I was quickly ( we all were) given Oman ATPL to fly Oman Registered aircraft, all over the world. That was GulfAir. When the Bahrainis introduced their own CAA and Bahrain registered aircraft, Bahrain ATPL was awarded on verification of the Oman Licence. There was never a validation on the UK Licence but an issue of the local licence on presentation of the Uk one. See how easy it is and has nothing to do with geographical airspace..

Post Brixit,let's just get on with a UK CAA/ARB and fly UK registered aircraft anywhere in the world. It really is that simple. Should you want to fly foreign registered aircraft, you would need the issue of that Country's licence either by validation of the Uk licence or whatever they require.

Oh just remembered, AE casualties who secured employment in Japan had to do the full Jap ATPL. Those who went to Condor, equally, full German ATP. Blimey, made mu Dutch Oral quite a pleasant experience !

You forget that the UK CAA of past is not the same CAA of the present.
Much manpower and resources had been outsourced to EASA.
Your argumentation is therefore flawed.

Denti
20th Sep 2018, 08:50
You forget that the UK CAA of past is not the same CAA of the present.
Much manpower and resources had been outsourced to EASA.
Your argumentation is therefore flawed.
The Royal Aeronautical Society has published a thorough report (https://www.aerosociety.com/media/6797/raes_civil_aviation_regulation_-_what_future_after_brexit.pdf) on the options and challenges for the CAA, not only focusing on no deal, but mentioning it. They calculate that around 300 specialist staff have to be hired and trained, as well a needed transition period of at least several years to transfer back all the responsibility. That would not be there in April 2019 at all.

Even if there is no deal in general, i expect there will be some side deals after that is decided for specific areas including aviation, as that would be damaging to both sides, although much more so for the UK than the EU.

zerograv
20th Sep 2018, 12:33
I also have to ditch my UK CAA license but, after a recent SICKENING experience with them,

+1 :mad:

If you look up on the IAA's website you figure out it might take anything from 12 to 14 weeks. Probably a bit longer to move to an AESA (Spanish) and it will set you back 170-ish euros.

170-ish euros ... probably in Spain. Does anyone know how much the IAA charge for the issue of an ATPL ? Did a search on their webpage but could not find that info. In any case, heard that it is a lot more than that ... (something like 650 euros). Is this the correct amount ?

akindofmagic
20th Sep 2018, 14:09
You want out, this is a logical consequence. If the U.K. maintains its stubborn attitude you have only yourselves to blame. Bed, lie, in it.

I think you’ll find that vast swathes of us are more than happy to maintain a ‘stubborn attitude’ as you put it. The EU stands to lose a hell of a lot more than the U.K.

In reality, there is a zero percent chance that air travel into or out of the U.K. will be affected in any meaningful way at the end of March next year. That said, I’d personally be delighted to see HMG take a firm line and block off U.K. airspace and airports to all EU registered aircraft. Got to make sure all those airlines (LH, KLM, AF, RYR etc. are compliant with U.K. regulations after all, what.)

If the EU wants to play these silly games, the U.K. should show that it can happily push back.

Longhitter
20th Sep 2018, 18:48
Air travel in and out of the U.K. will most likely not come to a halt (at least not for long) and I never claimed that to be the logical consequence.

What I mean is EASA membership. U.K. airspace won’t be closed, but you can’t operate as a pan-European airline with a U.K. AOC and licences.

ELondonPax
20th Sep 2018, 21:05
" The EU stands to lose a hell of a lot more than the U.K."
Head in the sand stupidity. The EU will still have a functioning legal infrastructure for airlines and pilots if the UK crashes out. The UK won't have anything in place, nor will it have functioning agreements with its main partners. (Former partners perhaps we should say)
When will the Brexiteers notice that EU27 have been clear and consistent throughout this process - why would anyone think they're bluffing.

highfive
21st Sep 2018, 15:48
A friend of mine just interviewd for a german based job. He holds a UK issued easa licence . Seems the feedback was that , reading between the lines, they are interviewing UK licence holders, but the would be required to transfer to another easa competent authority . Wether this is feasible or not was not mentioned.

so from now on, holders of uk issued part fcl will have to change authority until this mess is sorted. What a mess.

infrequentflyer789
21st Sep 2018, 16:16
A friend of mine just interviewd for a german based job. He holds a UK issued easa licence . Seems the feedback was that , reading between the lines, they are interviewing UK licence holders, but the would be required to transfer to another easa competent authority . Wether this is feasible or not was not mentioned.

so from now on, holders of uk issued part fcl will have to change authority until this mess is sorted. What a mess.

Did they tell him to apply for German (or other EU) citizenship too I wonder?

Seems to me that if a deal is done, then the licence issues should be sorted with it, if it's No Deal, then expats on both sides of the new fence will potentially be kicked out anyway. Commuting between UK and EU won't be possible (via Canada or Russia maybe) since no planes will fly between, and the trains will be stopped (says France).

I wonder how easy it will be to switch back to (or reacquire) UK licence after a hard brexit - relies on the CAA being in a fit state to manage stuff outside EASA :suspect: - wouldn't that potentially leave people unable to work where they are allowed to live, and unable to live where they are allowed to work?

TURIN
21st Sep 2018, 17:11
The EU stands to lose a hell of a lot more than the U.K.

I hear this so many times, from the everyman in the street on radio phone-ins to political talking heads like Farage and Rees-Mogg.
It beggers belief that with everything that has been said, written about and reported ad-nauseum since the referendum was announced, that inteligent people still believe this. It is, was and always will be utter garbage!

I realise that this thread is about Pilot Licencing, but there are a few thousand Licenced Engineers that were forced to convert to a JAR Part 66 licences and then a full EASA B1/B2 etc. All that is now moot and until someone at no.10 starts making sense, I and my colleagues have no clue how and under what legislation we will able to practice our art come April next year. The CAA Safety Regulation section was already understaffed and barely fit for purpose before all this started, Somehow they are going to have to ramp up their recruitment, training and oversight...in 6 months! Crazy!

Still, Taking back Control....Yay!!

brown_eyes
25th Sep 2018, 04:16
Is there any chance of the British ATPL coming back to life?