Lineup Landing Lights

[CM1A320]

Airbus SOP calls for Extend rather than ON during lineup, what is the industry standard?

[avionimc]

1995 NTSB Safety Recommendation A-95-086:
THE NTSB RECOMMENDS THAT THE FAA: REVISE THE FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS TO REQUIRE PILOTS TO ILLUMINATE ALL TAXI, LANDING, & LOGO LIGHTS, OR OTHERWISE ENHANCE THE CONSPICUITY OF THEIR AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING ON AN ACTIVE RUNWAY (INCLUDING RUNWAY CROSSING POSITION-&-HOLD OPERATIONS -- now LINE UP AND WAIT).

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/_layouts/ntsb.recsearch/Recommendation.aspx?Rec=A-95-086
https://flightsafety.org/ap/ap_mar96.pdf

[Hahn]

I extend them on line up and switch them on with the take off clearance to warn others that I'm about to blast off. Others switch them on on line up to avoid forgetting them. There is no industrial standard.

[compressor stall]

The "industry standard" is actually a European recommendation. From Airbus:

"The NOSE light is set to T.O after receiving the take-off clearance in order to be compliant with the recommendations provided in the last revision of the European Action Plan for the Prevention of Runway Incursions (EAPPRI) and to be homogeneous with all Airbus programs."

Personally, I think it should be all lights ablaze on entering.

EAPPRI document (https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/press_release/content/european-action-plan-prevention-runway-incursions-v3.pdf)

[vilas]

Landing lights are to be switched on after takeoff clearance is obtained. But Airbus taxi light has takeoff position which the Boeing doesn't have. Therefore in Airbus you put landing lights (and all other lights) on while entering the RW and on take off clearance put the taxi light to takeoff

[vilas]

FAA SAFO 11004
Exterior Lighting:
o Taxi with taxi light on when moving, off when stopped.
o Turn on all exterior lights when crossing any runway.
o If cleared to “Line Up and Wait”, turn on all exterior lights except landing lights.
o When “Cleared for take-off”, turn on all exterior lights, including landing lights
o If you see an aircraft in take-off position on a runway with landing lights ON, that aircraft has most likely received its take-off clearance and will be departing immediately.

[rigpiggy]

The old FAA AC 120-74A is a good basis for lights
power on nav lights
engine start. Beacons
taxi. Taxi light on, taxi light off if giving way
line up all but landing lights
cleared to go landing lights on

on descent thru 10k recogs
cleared the approach landing lights
cleared to land taxi lights

the switch positions also give you a good reminder of if you have been cleared

[Sue Ridgepipe]

EXTERIOR LIGHTS
RWY TURN OFF sw.......................................................... ...........................................................O N
STROBE sw.......................................................... ............................................................ .............ON
Set the STROBE sw to ON when entering the runway.
Note: The flight crew can switch off the strobe lights if the lights cause any visual trouble during
the flight.
NOSE sw.......................................................... ............................................................ .................T.O
Set the NOSE sw to T.O when entering the runway and takeoff clearance is received.
LAND LIGHTS sw.......................................................... ............................................................ ... ON
Set the LAND LIGHTS sw to ON when entering the runway and takeoff clearance is received.

From our current FCOM. So, landing lights and nose light are switched on only after take-off clearance received.

[PENKO]

Interesting to see that different operators have adopted different procedures. We just switch on all the lights as soon as line-up clearance is received. No further switching for the actual takeoff clearance.

[Intruder]

The restriction on landing lights per the FAA SAFO and AC is to give any aircraft crossing the runway some assurance that the pilot does not intend to take off yet. if the landing lights come on, that's an indication of some possible confusion on clearance.

[Doug E Style]

Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).

[PENKO]

Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).
True. Another more widespread problem are crews who switch on the strobe lights as soon as they get a conditional line up clearance! They can't yet line up because there's traffic on final or on the runway, but in the mean time they are blinding the traffic behind them just because they think it's SOP.

[Intruder]

Our SOPs had a disclaimer at the beginning that said they did not override good judgement of the PIC...

[student88]

"Oh look, that Airbus 1 mile away has just switched his nose light from taxi to take off. I guess we won't cross the active runway after all".

[compressor stall]

Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).
that’s just called bad airmanship.

As someone else said, you still exercise your PIC judgement.

And if I know there’s an aircraft on a crossing runway lining up and holding I don’t give a brass razzoo if he has his landing lights are on or not., he’s intermittently in my scan as I cross or roll until I know that we can’t possibly hit.

[pineteam]

Seems like some airlines try to reinvent the wheel.
I can’t recall seeing aircraft crossing runways with all lights on. By Airbus FCOM, only the strobe light is required when crossing a runway. That’s more than enough.

[CaptainMongo]

Landing lights are to be switched on after takeoff clearance is obtained. But Airbus taxi light has takeoff position which the Boeing doesn't have. Therefore in Airbus you put landing lights (and all other lights) on while entering the RW and on take off clearance put the taxi light to takeoff

At our airline, in the ever daunting quest to homogenize our Bus Fleet and Boeing fleet...we turn on all exterior lights when crossing the hold short line (taxi light to TO) and place the landing lights to the off position. When given takeoff clearance we place the landing lights to the on position. (When crossing a runway all exterior lighting is to be on.)

Regardless of the attempt at exterior lighting homogenation, it takes a new Bus Captain a bit to figure out exterior lighting protocol.

[oicur12.again]

"if the landing lights come on, that's an indication of some possible confusion on clearance."

A great intent if practiced with disciplne, however too often you see a jet lined up waiting as you cross downfield with its landing lights on but not moving.

Pointless procedure.

[CM1A320]

What was the recommendation when that 737 landed on top of a metroliner in los angeles?

i believe not to line up in the center of the runway and to turn on all lights, I guess this things are forgotten over time.

[desertpilot2457]

For Part 135 and 121 operators, any procedures outlined in the Company Operating Manual SOPs supersedes the AIM

[underfire]

Having all the lights on during lineup will confuse AC drivers as a runway and will try to land on you.

[Big Pistons Forever]

"if the landing lights come on, that's an indication of some possible confusion on clearance."

A great intent if practiced with disciplne, however too often you see a jet lined up waiting as you cross downfield with its landing lights on but not moving.

Pointless procedure.

Your “pointless” procedure saved me from a runway incursion. I was taxing out for the main runway which involved crossing the short runway. I was cleared across the runway by ground but on approaching the cross runway the dash 8 that was lined up turned on his landing lights. I immediately started braking and just as I stopped short of the hold line there was a panic call from ground to stop. By this point the Dash was accelerating down the runway on its takeoff roll. I reported the incident and the follow up report found there was a mix up in the tower cab between the ground and tower controllers.

Bottom line my action stopped the holes in the Swiss cheese from lining up. I will never cross a crossing runway with an aircraft lined up with all lights on without a query to ground.

Best part for me was that for next month when ever tower heard my voice on the radio for a VFR arrival I was always Number 1 to land:ok: