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Lineup Landing Lights

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Lineup Landing Lights

Old 2nd Jul 2018, 01:54
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Lineup Landing Lights

Airbus SOP calls for Extend rather than ON during lineup, what is the industry standard?
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 09:02
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1995 NTSB Safety Recommendation A-95-086:
THE NTSB RECOMMENDS THAT THE FAA: REVISE THE FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS TO REQUIRE PILOTS TO ILLUMINATE ALL TAXI, LANDING, & LOGO LIGHTS, OR OTHERWISE ENHANCE THE CONSPICUITY OF THEIR AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING ON AN ACTIVE RUNWAY (INCLUDING RUNWAY CROSSING POSITION-&-HOLD OPERATIONS -- now LINE UP AND WAIT).

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...x?Rec=A-95-086
https://flightsafety.org/ap/ap_mar96.pdf
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 09:21
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I extend them on line up and switch them on with the take off clearance to warn others that I'm about to blast off. Others switch them on on line up to avoid forgetting them. There is no industrial standard.
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 10:17
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The "industry standard" is actually a European recommendation. From Airbus:

"The NOSE light is set to T.O after receiving the take-off clearance in order to be compliant with the recommendations provided in the last revision of the European Action Plan for the Prevention of Runway Incursions (EAPPRI) and to be homogeneous with all Airbus programs."

Personally, I think it should be all lights ablaze on entering.

EAPPRI document
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 11:00
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Landing lights are to be switched on after takeoff clearance is obtained. But Airbus taxi light has takeoff position which the Boeing doesn't have. Therefore in Airbus you put landing lights (and all other lights) on while entering the RW and on take off clearance put the taxi light to takeoff
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 11:21
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FAA SAFO 11004
Exterior Lighting:
o Taxi with taxi light on when moving, off when stopped.
o Turn on all exterior lights when crossing any runway.
o If cleared to “Line Up and Wait”, turn on all exterior lights except landing lights.
o When “Cleared for take-off”, turn on all exterior lights, including landing lights
o If you see an aircraft in take-off position on a runway with landing lights ON, that aircraft has most likely received its take-off clearance and will be departing immediately.

Last edited by vilas; 4th Jul 2018 at 12:14.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 01:40
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The old FAA AC 120-74A is a good basis for lights
power on nav lights
engine start. Beacons
taxi. Taxi light on, taxi light off if giving way
line up all but landing lights
cleared to go landing lights on

on descent thru 10k recogs
cleared the approach landing lights
cleared to land taxi lights

the switch positions also give you a good reminder of if you have been cleared
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 03:06
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EXTERIOR LIGHTS
RWY TURN OFF sw.......................................................... ...........................................................O N
STROBE sw.......................................................... ............................................................ .............ON
Set the STROBE sw to ON when entering the runway.
Note: The flight crew can switch off the strobe lights if the lights cause any visual trouble during
the flight.
NOSE sw.......................................................... ............................................................ .................T.O
Set the NOSE sw to T.O when entering the runway and takeoff clearance is received.
LAND LIGHTS sw.......................................................... ............................................................ ... ON
Set the LAND LIGHTS sw to ON when entering the runway and takeoff clearance is received.
From our current FCOM. So, landing lights and nose light are switched on only after take-off clearance received.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 05:07
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Interesting to see that different operators have adopted different procedures. We just switch on all the lights as soon as line-up clearance is received. No further switching for the actual takeoff clearance.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 16:51
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The restriction on landing lights per the FAA SAFO and AC is to give any aircraft crossing the runway some assurance that the pilot does not intend to take off yet. if the landing lights come on, that's an indication of some possible confusion on clearance.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:00
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Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:32
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Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post
Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).
True. Another more widespread problem are crews who switch on the strobe lights as soon as they get a conditional line up clearance! They can't yet line up because there's traffic on final or on the runway, but in the mean time they are blinding the traffic behind them just because they think it's SOP.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 19:47
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Our SOPs had a disclaimer at the beginning that said they did not override good judgement of the PIC...
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 20:23
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"Oh look, that Airbus 1 mile away has just switched his nose light from taxi to take off. I guess we won't cross the active runway after all".
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post
Unfortunately the “all lights on when line-up clearance received” operators cause problems in the dark on runways which have access from and aircraft waiting on both sides (eg. Heathrow 09R/27L).
that’s just called bad airmanship.

As someone else said, you still exercise your PIC judgement.

And if I know there’s an aircraft on a crossing runway lining up and holding I don’t give a brass razzoo if he has his landing lights are on or not., he’s intermittently in my scan as I cross or roll until I know that we can’t possibly hit.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 02:44
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Seems like some airlines try to reinvent the wheel.
I can’t recall seeing aircraft crossing runways with all lights on. By Airbus FCOM, only the strobe light is required when crossing a runway. That’s more than enough.



Last edited by pineteam; 6th Jul 2018 at 08:22. Reason: Correction.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 14:16
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Originally Posted by vilas View Post
Landing lights are to be switched on after takeoff clearance is obtained. But Airbus taxi light has takeoff position which the Boeing doesn't have. Therefore in Airbus you put landing lights (and all other lights) on while entering the RW and on take off clearance put the taxi light to takeoff
At our airline, in the ever daunting quest to homogenize our Bus Fleet and Boeing fleet...we turn on all exterior lights when crossing the hold short line (taxi light to TO) and place the landing lights to the off position. When given takeoff clearance we place the landing lights to the on position. (When crossing a runway all exterior lighting is to be on.)

Regardless of the attempt at exterior lighting homogenation, it takes a new Bus Captain a bit to figure out exterior lighting protocol.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 16:33
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"if the landing lights come on, that's an indication of some possible confusion on clearance."

A great intent if practiced with disciplne, however too often you see a jet lined up waiting as you cross downfield with its landing lights on but not moving.

Pointless procedure.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 02:39
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What was the recommendation when that 737 landed on top of a metroliner in los angeles?

i believe not to line up in the center of the runway and to turn on all lights, I guess this things are forgotten over time.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 03:58
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For Part 135 and 121 operators, any procedures outlined in the Company Operating Manual SOPs supersedes the AIM
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