Mandatory Altitude Jepp Chart

[Feather44]

Good Day All,
It's been a while a have this question in mind. I did my research on the Jepp manual but I didn't find anything conclusive.
Is a level off between 12D and 7,4D mandatory? or the constraint 2000 Ft only apply at the FAF 7,4D?
Awaiting for your comments and doc reference if you have one.
Cheers

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/746x687/capture_d_cran_2018_06_21_17_39_37_93ad16782abdace080adbd66b 9358ccca35db7ae.png

[FlightDetent]

Step 1: check the AIP ? It kinda opens the question, how quickly you'd need to descent to comply with the author's intent...

[Klimax]

Good Day All,
It's been a while a have this question in mind. I did my research on the Jepp manual but I didn't find anything conclusive.
Is a level off between 12D and 7,4D mandatory? or the constraint 2000 Ft only apply at the FAF 7,4D?
Awaiting for your comments and doc reference if you have one.
Cheers

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/746x687/capture_d_cran_2018_06_21_17_39_37_93ad16782abdace080adbd66b 9358ccca35db7ae.png

You can decent to 2000 feet after passing D12.0, but you don't have to if you're following a profile (eg. you can be higher than 2000 feet), but you must not decent below the MANDATORY altitude depicted until after passing D7.4(FD33).

[FlightDetent]

Isn't that the situation if the word MANDATORY had not been there?

[RAT 5]

Interesting that 'mandatory' is also published for the procedure turn at 2500'. I've never seen this before. Regarding the 2000' & 7.4nm, it is usual to show 2000' AT 7.4nm. If the same was true for the procedure turn it should show 2500' AT 12nm.

It is bizarre by it being an unusual display. I wonder what other chart manufacturers depict? After all, Jeppesen publishes only the information supplied to them by the state.

[EGPFlyer]

Interesting that 'mandatory' is also published for the procedure turn at 2500'. I've never seen this before. Regarding the 2000' & 7.4nm, it is usual to show 2000' AT 7.4nm. If the same was true for the procedure turn it should show 2500' AT 12nm.

It is bizarre by it being an unusual display. I wonder what other chart manufacturers depict? After all, Jeppesen publishes only the information supplied to them by the state.

The AIP version only has the ‘at 2500’ at 12D inbound so the turn can be flown whilst descending

[FlightDetent]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/643x181/9xzh_ba235180705caa0b8d40e25d550ed95ee4d03643.png

Lido. Couldn't find the Egyptian AIP online.

[STBYRUD]

Lido shows it a lot more clearly. Unfortunately this is another example of Jeppesen's lack of standardization when it comes to their charts, its like the magic phrase 'authorization required' on CAT II and III minimums (stating the obvious), but the same note on RNP-AR procedures (which are usually called only RNAV still on many of their charts).

[FlightDetent]

Jeppesen could show the same as Lido, but for some reason decided not to, and included the M word. Still curious.

[Feather44]

Lido make it crystal clear!!
Thanks for your answers guys.

[aterpster]

Lido shows it a lot more clearly. Unfortunately this is another example of Jeppesen's lack of standardization when it comes to their charts, its like the magic phrase 'authorization required' on CAT II and III minimums (stating the obvious), but the same note on RNP-AR procedures (which are usually called only RNAV still on many of their charts).
Jeppesen title for RNP AR is RNAV (RNP) RWY XX and combined with "authorization required" in the briefing strip is the functional equivalent of "RNP AR."

[underfire]

hahaha...just remembered, the term 'briefing strip' is a Jepp trademark!

Jepp Definition:
MANDATORY ALTITUDE — An altitude depicted on an instrument approach procedure chart requiring the aircraft to maintain altitude at the depicted value

All altitudes depicted in the profile view are MINIMUM altitudes unless specifically labeled otherwise.
All altitudes are above mean sea level in feet (AMSL).
5 — Maximum altitudes: may be abbreviated "MAX".
6 — Mandatory altitudes: abbreviations are not used.
7 — Recommended altitudes: abbreviations are not used

[aterpster]

hahaha...just remembered, the term 'briefing strip' is a Jepp trademark!

Could be. But, FAA uses briefing strips on FAA IAP charts. The concept originated at Volpe:

https://www.volpe.dot.gov/

not at Jeppesen.

[safetypee]

Does the ‘Mandatory’ labelling follow ICAO standards and recommended practices?
Does the USA/FAA follow ICAO in this matter; if not have they declared a deviation from ICAO?
Alternatively if the FAA and ICAO are in agreement, then are ‘volpe’ / Jepp, etc out of step, and are they, and what they publish subject to FAA oversight?

[underfire]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/300x281/jepp_jepp_briefing_strip_300x281_c2395634f49ea685c367e154865 eeefa1a9552cb.jpg

Standards in charting?!?!?! Thats funny!

[aterpster]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/300x281/jepp_jepp_briefing_strip_300x281_c2395634f49ea685c367e154865 eeefa1a9552cb.jpg

Standards in charting?!?!?! Thats funny!

https://tinyurl.com/y85govyu

[jondoyle]

Just wondering if we had made any further progress on this or if we have anything definitive.

It doesn’t appear to me to make any sense to be using stepdown attitudes nowadays with the systems we have on board and our ability to fly constant descent CDFA approaches.

Interested to hear peoples opinions 🤔

[717tech]

I'd take it to mean that you must descend to 2000' once passed 12nm. Could it be due to traffic conflicts at another field? Or to separate departing traffic?

[Banana Joe]

Old topic this one, but I asked a similar questions not long ago. It's just a Jeppesen thing, it's mandatory to be at the FAF at or above 2000 ft, not below.

[Vessbot]

Old topic this one, but I asked a similar questions not long ago. It's just a Jeppesen thing, it's mandatory to be at the FAF at or above 2000 ft, not below.

This is not true. It's mandatory to be AT 2000, not above or below.
​​​​

[Banana Joe]

Brain fart, sorry! I should have said you can be at or above the level segment depicted on the chart but the FAF shall be crossed at the mandatory altitude.

[FlightDetent]

Pilot should actually have 2000 at FAF. The "mandatory" label which instructs you to be exactly at 2000 for the full intermediate approach segment (pointed out by Vessbot) had been added by Jeppesen.

[oggers]

According to the Jeppesen chart guide the bold altitude specifically refers to the altitude at FAF/FAP (as opposed to the colloquial platform altitude).
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/680x230/jepp_extract_8352bdcb647045f043bf79ff2abdc407f002b103.png
The Lido plate is more clear. The Jepp way of doing things is ambiguous in this case but the mandatory altitude at the FAF/FAP is not in doubt either way.

[Vessbot]

Pilot should actually have 2000 at FAF. The "mandatory" label which instructs you to be exactly at 2000 for the full intermediate approach segment (pointed out by Vessbot) had been added by Jeppesen.

The "mandatory" label doesn't instruct anything about the segment before the fix, it's about the fix itself. And it's not "added by Jeppesen" as in Jeppesen invented it, it's there because the source data says to, unless it's a charting error. It's simply Jeppesen's presentation of a mandatory (instead of minimum, which is the common one) altitude, equivalent to the 5500 here, from FAA AeroNav charts:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/442x122/altitudes_372e9efb56738a88041882a145a022422a2119d5.png

A Jepp altitude with no note (#4 in Oggers' post above) is equivalent to the 2500 here, and is the common one (minimum, aka "at or above")

[FlightDetent]

Thanks for correcting. I meant J. put it there on their own will (charting error), but that is also not true. The restriction is actually visible in the LIDO graphics too.

Had a look last night for the Egyptian AIP, despite some improvements in the Internet realm it is not accessible online.

Then I had it slip away, apologies.

[Rocket3837]

The only reason for having "mandatory" heights depicted on letdown chart is to free the space above..
Jeppesen is a copy company and does not design approach charts, the state does..
I suspect it is a design error by the state but you have to comply with it. You should cross 12d at 2500 ft & 7.4d at 2000 ft.....