British try to act tough [Archive]

piesupper

30th Mar 2018, 18:07

polax52

30th Mar 2018, 18:16

Small cog

30th Mar 2018, 18:29

ICAO Article 16. The Right to search aircraft.

ford cortina

30th Mar 2018, 18:30

If it happened I would have thought it would have been all over PPrune by now.
RT is state owned and as such is the Kremlin's mouthpiece.
As Donald would say 'Fake News'

Heathrow Harry

30th Mar 2018, 18:42

It's not "foreign police" - its a piece of Russian owned machinery on UK soil - not an Embassy

And I'd say the same if it was BA in Russia..................

vapilot2004

30th Mar 2018, 18:55

Met police says no:

We are aware of a story circulating on social media. Please be advised that Metropolitan Police are not conducting a search of an Airbus inbound from Moscow at Heathrow.

Meanwhile, the Home Office is "looking into it", according to (sorry) The Mirror.

Globally Challenged

30th Mar 2018, 19:07

https://www.rt.com/news/422811-britain-plane-russia-provocation/

What do professional pilots feel about allowing foreign police to search an aircraft without supervision?

Would YOU fly this plane after strangers have roamed all over it?

Happens every time we enter Russia when military looking chaps speaking no english clamber on - usually with dirty boots walking crud through our biz jet.

Do we cry about it?

No.

Herod

30th Mar 2018, 19:32

I suspect the search is legal. Not sure about insisting the captain stay on the flight deck.

The last time I was in Russia, on a 45 minute turnround at a remote stand, our passports were taken away, and an armed guard prevented me from coming down the stairs to supervise the refuel and do the walkround. Only when a superior officer reappeared was I allowed off. No, not in the Soviet era (2004)

Cows getting bigger

30th Mar 2018, 19:33

Dry your eyes, OP. I've sort of lost count (well, the number is bigger than five but less than ten) where my 'rights' as a commercial pilot have been violated by foreign states. The 'traditional' ones are retention of passport, non-acceptance of GENDECs etc. Of course, a quick cash payment of 'fees' always seems to clear the way.

PS. I hope they were wearing NBC suits; it seems de-rigeuer when dealing with anything Russian right now.

Thaihawk

30th Mar 2018, 19:37

If it happened I would have thought it would have been all over PPrune by now.
RT is state owned and as such is the Kremlin's mouthpiece.
As Donald would say 'Fake News'

Very much so. Anything RT report has to be taken as suspect.

Those in the West watching and believing this propaganda mouthpiece are maybe Putin followers?.

The thread title suggests to me this thread is pro-Russian and anti British, as is no doubt the person who started it. Perhaps a move to Russia for this person would be for the best?.

galaxy flyer

30th Mar 2018, 20:05

Yes, Russian standard is to collect the passports and disappear for some time, returning them just prior to take-off. This would be “ sorta” news if the plane in question was a “state” aircraft, which it isn’t.

GF

Nemrytter

30th Mar 2018, 20:25

It sounds to me like you're on the wrong side?This is about 'sides'? Sounds to me like you're in the wrong century.

FLEXJET

30th Mar 2018, 20:50

Bermuda-registered aircraft. Bermuda is a British territory.
Aeroflot’s mistake.

pilot9249

30th Mar 2018, 20:51

its a piece of Russian owned machinery on UK soil

It looks a little bit interesting, really.

Under ICAO, it seems in a number of respects an aircraft is a national of the state in which it is registered. In some respects it resembles territory.

It has various protections by legal convention that would not apply if it was just an ordinary piece of machinery.

Expect others are more expert on all the legalese here.

Accept this wouldn't prevent it being searched, and wonder if it really was.

Council Van

30th Mar 2018, 21:09

The appropriate authorities of each of the contracting States shall have the right, without unreasonable delay, to search aircraft of the other contracting States on landing or departure, and to inspect the certificates and other documents prescribed by this convention.

Piltdown Man

30th Mar 2018, 22:24

CV has it right. And besides, where was the aircraft registered? And under whose flag does it fly? So tell me again how the huge, mighty Russian state was humiliated by an insignificant, puny country like the UK? Sounds more like an own goal to me

And while we are here, why does the national airline from a country competent at building aircraft fly Airbus products? And why does the country with robust commercial law have to register it in the decadent West?

There again, maybe this wasn’t a search and the police were just wiping down the handles to the toilets? And who exactly is the OP? Appears to watch a great deal of RT for a Jock? The politics are the same but it’s probably better than watching fishy thin lips.

PM

Council Van

30th Mar 2018, 22:26

I would be on the phone to the duty management pilot quick sharp, just to let the grown ups back home know what was happening, especially if it was not just a standard ramp inspection.:ok:

BusAirDriver

30th Mar 2018, 22:42

Well knowing how incompetent journalists from RT are, it was probably just a ramp check and some pax wanting his 5 minute of fame.

Russia already gone bankrupt once, let’s see how well it goes for them now.
Unfortunately a lot of Russian people are brainwashed and still deluded by stories of Russias/ Soviets grandeur !

Good luck to Russian people, Good Riddance to Putin and his KGB mafia

Hotel Tango

30th Mar 2018, 23:00

Unfortunately a lot of Russian people are brainwashed and still deluded by stories of Russias/ Soviets grandeur !

I think it likely that there are equally as many who are not, including government officials. Sadly they are not free to express their opinions nor to vote him out. It is indeed a mafia controlled dictatorship.

TURIN

30th Mar 2018, 23:08

...it’s against regulations to inspect an aircraft in the absence of the crew.

Reeaally? :ugh:

I wonder which regulation that is. :suspect:
So, when the crew have left and waltzed off to their hotel for the night, no police are allowed on board. Cleaners, engineers, dispatchers, loaders and catering, but no rozzers. What a load of old дерьмо !:hmm:

Right Hand Thread

30th Mar 2018, 23:13

A quick skim of piesupper’s last few posts show just a little bias toward old Mother Russia.

Morning Star comrade?

flightlevel 320

30th Mar 2018, 23:32

What about security check after this inspection?
Why was the crew asked to leave the plane? Is it legal?

flaps78

30th Mar 2018, 23:52

Who did the inspection? SAFA? Police? CAA?

Flaps78

Council Van

31st Mar 2018, 06:40

Make sure all your paper work is in order if you are operating to Russia this morning and your aircraft reg starts with a G.

I suspect every British aircraft will be ramp checked.

Cows getting bigger

31st Mar 2018, 07:08

Nothing new there. Memories of the old Soviet Union.

Heathrow Harry

31st Mar 2018, 07:13

"Under ICAO, it seems in a number of respects an aircraft is a national of the state in which it is registered."

I have a feeling that trying to explain that to (say) the Met or the FBI would make an entertaining video.....................

You (just) might get an apology from the FO/State Dept about 10 years later

wiggy

31st Mar 2018, 07:21

I have a feeling that trying to explain that to (say) the Met or the FBI would make an entertaining video......

A colleague had a misunderstanding over aircraft, territorial issues and associated authority when dealing with the NY Port Authority Police a few years back......it all worked out OK in the end (i.e. when he agreed with local POV....)...he never got an apology...

DaveReidUK

31st Mar 2018, 07:30

Who did the inspection? SAFA? Police? CAA?

From the link in the very first post:

Aeroflot said that the crew and staff from its London office will additionally inspect the plane after the British police conclude its activities aboard

Heathrow Harry

31st Mar 2018, 08:12

A colleague had a misunderstanding over aircraft, territorial issues and associated authority when dealing with the NY Port Authority Police a few years back......it all worked out OK in the end (i.e. when he agreed with local POV....)...he never got an apology...

I know the feeling............ :ouch::ouch::ouch::ouch:

scotbill

31st Mar 2018, 08:25

A quick skim of piesupper’s last few posts show just a little bias toward old Mother Russia.

Morning Star comrade?

A lot of the SNP faithful get their news/views from RT as it supports Independence (knowing it would weaken UK defences). They reject the BBC as biassed because it does not swallow completely the idea of an independent Scottish nirvana

Joe_K

31st Mar 2018, 09:59

Who did the inspection? SAFA? Police? CAA?

BBC is saying:

"What happened on the plane?
The Russian news agency Interfax quoted an unnamed source as saying British "police" had boarded the jet once passengers had disembarked and had "demanded" the crew leave so that they could conduct a search.
The Russian embassy in London said later in a statement that British customs officers had boarded the plane and tried to search it "without the crew being present".
"After an Embassy officer arrived at the airport long negotiations were conducted that allowed to ensure the right of the captain to be take part in the search," it added.
Russia's foreign ministry called it "the next provocation" following the fallout from the Skripal affair.
There was no immediate official British comment on the Russian accusations but London's Metropolitan Police denied its officers had searched a plane arriving from Moscow."

From Spy poisoning: Russia escalates spy row with new expulsions - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43596812)

Council Van

31st Mar 2018, 12:06

Border force have coughed and admitted it was them. The tweet of denial from the Met was probably not well thought out, border force, police etc all very similar to Jo public and the media.

UK confirms Russian plane was searched at Heathrow yesterday. Security Minister Ben Wallace: "It is routine for Border Force to search aircraft to protect the UK from organised crime & from those who attempt to bring harmful substances like drugs or firearms into the country."

Why the need to search the aircraft, should they not be searching off loaded pax, bags and cargo? Unless of course something was going to be off loaded at the last minuite:ok:

4468

31st Mar 2018, 12:54

Border Force work is often intelligence led.

Just saying!

Heathrow Harry

31st Mar 2018, 13:36

Border Force work is often intelligence led.

Just saying!

First post I've ever seen with the words "Border Force" and Intelligence" in the same sentence without the words "lacking"

Jumbo744

31st Mar 2018, 13:47

It sounds to me like you're on the wrong side?

O, American Savior, please tell us which side is the good one :ugh:

ShotOne

31st Mar 2018, 16:04

Why should a Border Force inspection be seen as “acting tough”? Every turnaround in US involves an inspection, crew not alllowed on board until they say so. Ditto lots of places. And at no point has it been been a subject of diplomatic protest from any side.

cappt

31st Mar 2018, 17:16

Canada plays these games, they even like to hide little items to see if we can find them when we search the cockpit and sign off on it before returning to the states.
I hope all the tuff talking Brits are ready to sign up theirs youngsters for a big nasty fight when the SHTF. Don’t count on the yanks this time around, we’re not really interested in wrestling bears.

4468

31st Mar 2018, 17:22

I hope all the tuff talking Brits are ready to sign up theirs youngsters for a big nasty fight when the SHTF. Don’t count on the yanks this time around, we’re not really interested in wrestling bears.
Haha

I don’t remember you yanks having the stomach for many (legal) fights, unless and until you get caught with your knickers round your ankles, as you did in Pearl Harbour!

If you think the use of chemical weapons on the streets of a NATO ally, is not a reason for us all to respond appropriately, then frankly there seems little else to say!

Exup

31st Mar 2018, 17:43

Cappt: I think you will find the Tuff Talking Brits had been signing the youngsters up for 3 years before you turned up last time.

Cows getting bigger

31st Mar 2018, 18:48

Anvaldra

31st Mar 2018, 18:53

The thread title suggests to me this thread is pro-Russian and anti British, as is no doubt the person who started it. Perhaps a move to Russia for this person would be for the best?.
:D
Brainwashing is directly proportional to the amount of conducted time in front of zombie box
Who would rid all of us from untalented politicians and television propaganda?

cappt

31st Mar 2018, 18:59

It’s 48hrs max until the UK is out of the fight, everyone knows that. TM is just trying to stay relevant, crazy to go bezerk over a washed up double agent with but a dozen strange theories?

axefurabz

31st Mar 2018, 19:25

It’s 48hrs max until the UK is out of the fight, everyone knows that. TM is just trying to stay relevant, crazy to go bezerk over a washed up double agent with but a dozen strange theories? Truly, two countries divided by a common language.

galaxy flyer

31st Mar 2018, 20:55

(1) Russia is a world power soley based on its nuclear arms. That makes it threat.

(2) if the tide turned in 1914, why did the US have to enter in 1917? Considering the advances by the Germans in the summer of 1918, it was only Pershing’s men that stood between the Germans and Paris. But, then the German citizenry rose up forcing Ludendorff’s hand in stepping down.

(3) Right, again, if the tide had turned in ‘42, why were we decisive in the ending the war with the Russian Army’s assisting from the east. Could France and UK defeated Germany alone by crossing the Channel?

GF

Herod

31st Mar 2018, 21:11

cappt

31st Mar 2018, 23:31

Why, oh why, are we doing Putin's work for him? Divide and conquer. I'm as proud a Brit as anyone, but I'm also very grateful that the Americans have been with us when needed. Stop this bickering , children

Copy Dad, ;)
I’m just saying spying is dangerous work, double agent spying is even more so. Many spies on both sides have disappeared over the years, so this event is not something rational nations war over. Here’s a excerpt from one of are very own musing in public about how he would handle Snowden.

"I think if we had the chance, we would end it very quickly," [an Army intelligence officer] said. "Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow, coming back from buying his groceries. Going back to his flat and he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it's a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower."

Sound familiar?