Isle of Man-2

[Haven't a clue]

What has happened with the LCY flights over the past few days?

Sunday's two rotations cancelled. The aircraft which had positioned in the day before from Humberside (after maintenance perhaps?) to operate the service went tech and needed to go to the hanger for several hours of TLC. First rotation cancelled, second "delayed". Eastern apparently unable to unable to find another aircraft due to lack of crew. Then hurrah! A revised departure time for the second rotation appears on the BA website and airport departure board, but later that service too is also cancelled. Eastern finally manage to find an aircraft to operate the last flight back from LCY. Monday's three rotations operate ok. However this morning's is cancelled yet there are TWO Saabs stand idle on the apron at Ronaldsway.

Are BACF/Eastern bring to quietly kill this route? I know that with reliability being this bad (and it does seem to be happening more often lately) then what loyal pax remain are going to use the often cheaper Orange alternative in preference.

Of course they will still have to make it through the frequently reported one hour delay at Ronaldsway security in time to catch their flight.

[Hansol]

Light loads?

[Haven't a clue]

35 or so (70%) on each of the two Sunday outbounds apparently, but yes I did wonder.

[M-JCS]

It does seem to be more frequent and is unsettling. We were caught up in September -- original flight cancelled for "technical reasons", later flight to which we were transferred 156 minutes (per BA) late due to "rotational engineering issues." We decided this time around to try a different routing with another carrier ---- and it definitely wasn't to the Orange alternative whose on time performance is famously bad and goes where we don't want to go. LCY is too important to the IOM to allow this sort of thing to creep in again.

[manx crab]

Saturdays rotation was also operated in reverse by BA so was some 4hours late.( crew sickness apparently, standby cover?). But the SAAB managed to leave for Humberside whilst the delayed pax sat in IOM waiting for the replacement EMB190 to arrive. Same SAAB was subsequently dragged back for the one flight they managed on the Sunday night to the IOM and that did not get back til 22.30.

I have been caught out by a few of these cancellations this year, oddly for a purported business route it seems to be the early rotation that's binned. It must be costing someone a fair bit of cash for the EU compensation.

[IOMX]

Its got nothing to do with low load factors! Te published data on the Ronaldsway airport website indicates around 5300 people are travelling on the route each month. This equates to a load factor of circa 75% which is not too bad. Some of the sectors can also be sold out. However to prevent it being lost people should support it. There is nothing like consumer demand to drive the behaviour of an airline and if more people flew the route then BACF would no doubt upgrade to an E170 which would offer more reliability. I have said before please be positive about this route its the only London option offering regular well times daily services which if booked in advance are reasonably priced. Please encourage as many people as possible to use it! Thanks

[lfc84]

run out of de-icer !

[Haven't a clue]

Manx Radio reporting airport saying Menzies "went through two years supply in one day due to the conditions".

That sounds like a lot of de-icer fluid but it does depend the definition of "two years supply". Joe public will be thinking something bowser size but it probably was only a woefully inadequate couple of drums.....

But then again the chance of snow on the island is probably regarded by Menzies as minimal so why should they bother holding more, despite a three day prior warnings by the Met Office here.

[lfc84]

Easjet Belfast-IOM announced

at 76 miles i guess this is the shortest route on their network

[cumbrianboy]

That is a disaster!

easyJet to Belfast is not what the IOM needs, the IOM needs double daily flights to support the business community, now with easyJet taking the cream off the top on the two peak days at a single daily frequency the IOM connectivity just got a whole lot worse .. again!

[22/04]

I am afraid Easy will do what is commercially right for them. If IoM wants services that support its community objectives then either it or the UK government will need to financially support it. Can it be funded out of registration of all those business jets?

[cumbrianboy]

What has it got to do with the UK government?

No, what the IOM should do is route license, they have just had a big consultation on this and yet again they bow to pressure from the orange brigade!

[lfc84]

failing to see the problem. let's see what happens. likely to increase numbers.

it's only a couple of days per week

[cumbrianboy]

It's gatwick all over again ... you go for 4 daily flights to 1-2.

Joe public love easyJet but business on the Island almost unanimously say the poor level of air service and frequency impacts business.

eastern will go (again) and so we will in the last 2 years have gone from 3 -4 flights a day to Belfast to 2 a week ... how is that good?

[owenc]

Does it even snow that much in the Isle of Man, given that it is in the middle of the Irish sea?

[pabely]

Does it even snow that much in the Isle of Man, given that it is in the middle of the Irish sea?

It did this weekend and because it normally escapes there is little contingency. At times when the airport was still open roads to/from were not.

[Tinwald]

Eastern have been fleecing the fares since they arrived, fella - £200 single weeks in advance too in october. 2 easy flights a week isnt going to make much difference and some compitition is what's needed. If anybody suffers it might be the Racket

[Tonyq]

That is a disaster!

easyJet to Belfast is not what the IOM needs, the IOM needs double daily flights to support the business community, now with easyJet taking the cream off the top on the two peak days at a single daily frequency the IOM connectivity just got a whole lot worse .. again!

Eastern have had many months to establish a reliable, affordable service, while providing adequate capacity to meet demand, and have failed on all those counts. The Airport's own passenger data reports have been mentioning declining numbers and inadequate capacity for months, so they have probably collaborated with easyJet to fill the capacity gap.

I see this service as similar to Bristol, in that it will generate new custom, mostly leisure, mostly short breaks. Eastern will probably plough on, fleecing the business pax, in the process.

[M-JCS]

But cumbrianboy's comments remain true. The IOM economy needs good and reliable business connections. Not the occasional cheap flight for the leisure crowd. If EZY cannibalises the Eastern connection, it doesn't do the IOM any good at all. Quite the contrary.

[Plane.Silly]

If there could only be a happy medium of frequent flights on smaller aircraft. Shame EZY dont operate any 50-100 seaters, coupled with the cheaper fares than Eastern; that'd be perfect

[Harry Wayfarers]

If there could only be a happy medium of frequent flights on smaller aircraft. Shame EZY dont operate any 50-100 seaters, coupled with the cheaper fares than Eastern; that'd be perfect

If there was money to be made on multiple 50-100 seaters per day then surely Flybe would be in there like a shot.

Alas it seems the days of maunfacturing niche route puddle jumpers are gone, OK the Do228 and BN2 remain in production, the DHC6 has been revived, runours of the Do328 being revived, alas it seems the modern day aircraft are too large too serve these niche routes without a government subsidy which seems kind of crazy!

[SWBKCB]

It's the "Why do I have to pay more than £9.99?" brigade, who haven't heard of the phrase "time is money"

[milleriom]

But cumbrianboy's comments remain true. The IOM economy needs good and reliable business connections. Not the occasional cheap flight for the leisure crowd. If EZY cannibalises the Eastern connection, it doesn't do the IOM any good at all. Quite the contrary.

Yes, obviously we do need good and reliable business connections but I disagree strongly in this case with your unfair slant:
a) Belfast is not important in regard to business connections. Clearly you don't know how few Northern Ireland based businesses operate here and vice versa. Almost none, for example, in the key Financial and Gaming sectors.
b) Eastern have not only been charging exorbitant sums, such as would make any Finance Department's eyes water, but their frequencies and timings are close to useless for business travel as well. Have you actually checked the timetables?
c) Belfast and all of Northern Ireland can also be reached via Dublin + a fast train or an express bus. For business people it can easily be reached by flying via Liverpool with lots of flights and often at vastly lower cost. I can provide numerous examples of this and lots of people, including business people especially via Liverpool, are doing that already.
d) In mentioning ''good.... connections'' I realise that you mean timings and frequencies. But again you are in a dreamland because the demand on this route is tiny and it was so even in the days of Citywing who were down to 3 rotations per day in later years with a capacity of only 19 seats per flight and on very noisy uncomfortable aircraft that should never have been allowed to fly in the British Isles.
e) Speaking of comfort, which is important to most of the business market that you refer to, no-one really wants to fly on an old Eastern Saab.
f) Visitor nos are very important to both the Northern Ireland and Isle of Man economies. Eastern are not adding much to either with such low capacity and the lack of weekend services but Easyjet will do add a lot of visitors in both locations. That will increase yet further if this new service frequency increases and perhaps even goes daily. I believe that the plan is for it also to be all-year-round beyond October next year.
g) We live, thank goodness, in a democratic and free market economy. The PEOPLE decide what they wish to buy and at what price and those who provide that survive and those who don't do not.

Perhaps you have some sort of a connection to Eastern or a particular reason to be so positive about them and so favourably disposed towards them. And so unjustifiably negative about EasyJet.

Maybe you are driven by nothing more than pure wishful thinking for a non existent world in which you have perfect frequencies, capacities and timings on all routes - even on very low demand ones. That way lies guaranteed failure of course so hopefully you have no role in the financial management of any airline!

It is a nonsense to bemoan the competition provided by EasyJet on any route at all. In 2016 they served 63.257 million generally satisfied customers very well indeed and that includes vast numbers of business people too both on the island and throughout the UK and much of Europe.

[lfc84]

people should stop moaning

[EMX81L]

Loganair have a nice little addition for TT2018.

25MAY - 10JUN (Operating Friday and Sunday)
Isle of Man - Norwich

[lfc84]

i received an email with a notification of a reply, but the reply has gone.

it was a really good post !

[M-JCS]

Actually milleriom, I have no connection to Eastern, though I am involved in finance, and there is significant financial business to be had in Northern Ireland, whether you like to think so or not. The kind of business this island desperately needs, rather than the cheap tourism you seem to espouse.
One thing I am not is impressed by shiny new EZ aeroplanes with somebody else's lunch left on my seat, and running hours behind schedule, if at all, flying at times and to places I don't need. But then I'm not a pensioner and I depend upon good, reliable business connections without repetitive transfers to get where I need to go in the world. You might do well read SWBKCB's comment above.

[Thad Jarvis]

I don't recall anyone in Easyjet saying this is being marketed as a business route. The timings reflect and developmental leisure operation. If successful you might see it going daily but not double daily. Besides there would be insufficient demand for a double daily 319/20 to BFS.
I can't see the problem here. The business community can continue to blow hundreds on Eastern's little turboprop if they wish but the influx of leisure traffic can only be good for the island - unless you have something against tourists.
When citywing run the service they had a realistic pricing structure that catered for both. Eastern have no interest in the average leisure passenger.

[Harry Wayfarers]

e) Speaking of comfort, which is important to most of the business market that you refer to, no-one really wants to fly on an old Eastern Saab.


I believe that the Saab2000 remains the world's most advanced fly-by-wire turboprop, I travelled in them many a time, rode the jumpseat one or a few times, there's even a window in the crapper to watch the world go by as one is having a .... , a lovely piece of kit and a shame that Saab gave up civil aircraft production.

Now just read and learn of my location, are you going to accuse me of being affiliated with Eastern also?

[El Bunto]

The window in the toilet of the 2000 was requested by the boss of Crossair so that his passengers could enjoy the Swiss scenery whilst engaged. Not related to the IOM thread but always stuck in my head.

[rob39]

d) In mentioning ''good.... connections'' I realise that you mean timings and frequencies. But again you are in a dreamland because the demand on this route is tiny and it was so even in the days of Citywing who were down to 3 rotations per day in later years with a capacity of only 19 seats per flight and on very noisy uncomfortable aircraft that should never have been allowed to fly in the British Isles.

I actually flew on the Let410's yes noisey but perfect for the market Citywing targeted and felt perfectly safe in them, I knew many of the pilots who were very professional in their duties and the aircraft were regularly maintained. Out of europe yes they are less reliable and possibly down right dangerous. IMO

[lfc84]

I actually flew on the Let410's yes noisey but perfect for the market Citywing targeted and felt perfectly safe in them, I knew many of the pilots who were very professional in their duties and the aircraft were regularly maintained. Out of europe yes they are less reliable and possibly down right dangerous. IMO

this is the same citywing that had to rename themselves from manx2

anyway. the future is bright. it's orange.

i think eastern have a J41 scheduled on the BHD-IOM route

[milleriom]

Actually milleriom, I have no connection to Eastern, though I am involved in finance, and there is significant financial business to be had in Northern Ireland, whether you like to think so or not. The kind of business this island desperately needs, rather than the cheap tourism you seem to espouse.
One thing I am not is impressed by shiny new EZ aeroplanes with somebody else's lunch left on my seat, and running hours behind schedule, if at all, flying at times and to places I don't need. But then I'm not a pensioner and I depend upon good, reliable business connections without repetitive transfers to get where I need to go in the world. You might do well read SWBKCB's comment above.

There may be significant business to be had in Northern Ireland but I have to ask why has it not happened when we had plenty of direct flights with big capacities, great value fares and perfect Business timings for very, very many years past? I do not think Northern Ireland is one of our key connections nor do I believe it ever will be.

Furthermore, although you dismiss / greatly underestimate the value of visitors nos to the island, the facts are that they are a key part of a diversified island economy and EasyJet are the biggest support plank in that whole area and are growing our visitor nos when every other air service to and from the island has ceased trading, withdrawn or significantly reduced capacities and frequencies. Easyjet's Liverpool, Gatwick and Bristol services are key to the survival of most services with decent aircraft, capacities and frequencies.

Where the frequencies of EasyJet are not good enough for some business people, they can reach almost anywhere with 3 times a day excellent business-orientated timings via LCY using BA CityFlyer (which is ironically still operated by Eastern for them on an old wet-leased unreliable SAAB 2000).

The fact is that we are where we now are and EasyJet is the dominant player. Bemoaning the loss of a thin schedule on one route on a small aircraft
is not going to change any facts-on-the-ground.

BTW, I did read SWBKCB's post - I am a very senior professional and reading and understanding all the detail is the key plank of my skill-set!

As I am really busy just now and I am going to be away for most of the next 3 months on mixed purpose domestic UK and long-haul travels, I shall withdraw quietly from this thread and the forum having made points about which I felt strongly enough to actually post something here (despite being a very, very rare poster of anything, anywhere at all).

Best wishes to all for a very Happy Christmas and New Year and a very healthy, happy and successful 2018 - I hope that next year brings you all that you wish for.

Milleriom

[milleriom]

I don't recall anyone in Easyjet saying this is being marketed as a business route. The timings reflect and developmental leisure operation. If successful you might see it going daily but not double daily. Besides there would be insufficient demand for a double daily 319/20 to BFS.
I can't see the problem here. The business community can continue to blow hundreds on Eastern's little turboprop if they wish but the influx of leisure traffic can only be good for the island - unless you have something against tourists.
When citywing run the service they had a realistic pricing structure that catered for both. Eastern have no interest in the average leisure passenger.

+1
Thank you very much for this. I used a lot more words to say the same as you in a most inferior way!

[cumbrianboy]

The point here is not about whether eastern will remain on the BHD route, it is far wider reaching.

easyJet have destoryed the connectivity to the Island.

EasyJet will do what suits easyJet and they have no vested interest in the IOM. I am well aware that fares can be prohibitive but that is a separate issue. The problem is, easyJet are a commercial organisation and will do what suits easyJet. We saw this last summer when they reduced the LTN flights during the peak season to use the aircraft elsewhere.

Let me say, I have huge respect for easyJet and think they are an amazing airline, BUT they are the WRONG airline for the Isle of Man.

Air services to the Isle of Man can not be treated the same as a new easyJet route from LPL to Spain for example. easyJet serving the IOM are not giving people a nice option for a summer holiday or giving people a chance to go and see Auntie Joan for the weekend.

Air services on the IOM are lifeline routes, The Island DEPENDS on them. Not just for tourism, but for the economic and social well being of the island.

The problem when you put these absolutely essential services in the hands of commerical operators is that the Island suffers, and is suffering due to lack of connectivity, and it has no security over the long term and no guarantee of service. What if (a big IF but a risk none the less) easyJet decide to withdraw from the IOM - what then??

I am not saying easyJet are not a good thing, they have many advantages, and in most cases I am their biggest fan, but I genuinely believe that the IOM needs to do things differently, and it needs government intervention. I realise this is unlikely to happen but it doesn't change the basic fact that it should.

Like I said, Gatwick, used to be 4 flights a day, not some days it is only 1 a day, and on others the times are woefully inadequate.

Belfast, will most likely now end up twice a week.

All the direct points we used to have are now a much longed after thing of the past.

The recent report on Aurigny makes for interesting reading, and it comes back to my original point, that for a small island community air services need to be viewed as lifelines and part of the national infrastructure and not as profit centres.

[lfc84]

The point here is not about whether eastern will remain on the BHD route, it is far wider reaching.

easyJet have destoryed the connectivity to the Island.




in terms of connectivity - eastern aren't any better. no connections.
easyjet now offer connecting flights on thier website.
flybe ofer connecting flights - but to fewer destinations.
ba offer connections but majority need a change of airport.
aer lingus offer connections but only to a tiny number of destinations on their network without using a trael agent.

so i disagree that easyjet have destroyed connectivity.


EasyJet will do what suits easyJet and they have no vested interest in the IOM. I am well aware that fares can be prohibitive but that is a separate issue. The problem is, easyJet are a commercial organisation and will do what suits easyJet. We saw this last summer when they reduced the LTN flights during the peak season to use the aircraft elsewhere.


Let me say, I have huge respect for easyJet and think they are an amazing airline, BUT they are the WRONG airline for the Isle of Man.


look at easyjet fares - much, much lower than anyone else operating to London. they could arguably double what they charge - but to be fair - they don't.

without easyjet pasenger numbers would have collapsed.


Air services to the Isle of Man can not be treated the same as a new easyJet route from LPL to Spain for example. easyJet serving the IOM are not giving people a nice option for a summer holiday or giving people a chance to go and see Auntie Joan for the weekend.

Air services on the IOM are lifeline routes, The Island DEPENDS on them. Not sure for tourism, but for the economic and social well being of the island.



The problem when you put these absolutely essential services in the hands of commerical operators is that the Island suffers, and is suffering due to lack of connectivity.



all of the airlines are commercial operators. that's how it should be.


I am not saying easyJet are not a good thing, they have many advantages, and in most cases I am their biggest fan, but I genuinely believe that the IOM needs to do things differently, and it needs government intervention. I realise this is unlikely to happen but it doesn't change the basic fact that it should.

Like I said, Gatwick, used to be 4 flights a day, not some days it is only 1 a day, and on others the times are woefully inadequate.

Belfast, will most likely now end up twice a week.



doesn't the fact that the other operators who chose to run 4 sectors each and every day are gone or are struggling tell you anything ?

it indicates to me that the model easyjet use is successful.



All the direct points we used to have are now a much longed after thing of the past.


such as ?


The recent report on Aurigny makes for interesting reading, and it comes back to my original point, that for a small island community air services need to be viewed as lifelines and part of the national infrastructure and not as profit centres.

Look at jersey....! more airlines, more routes, more passengers and more people than IOM.

that's what the IOM should be aiming for !

[M-JCS]

In the end airlines, especially for island communities, are an essential part of the transport infrastructure, as cumbrianboy says. The problem is people have forgotten that since LCC's started selling tickets as though they are selling rides at the carnival.
By the way, EZ "connectivity" means you can buy 2 separate flights on conveniently timed flights. That is not the same as a through ticket by any stretch of the imagination.

[pabely]

Like I said, Gatwick, used to be 4 flights a day, not some days it is only 1 a day, and on others the times are woefully inadequate.


Remember slots, these are expensive and hard to come by at Gatwick.
Flybe sold theirs on. EZY likes to run 85%+ full so adding a 2 or 3 rotation a day, would it achieve that load factor? The Gatwick aircraft, I believe come from Scottish bases, go down to LGW then do IOM then some Med routes, before back to IOM.
More likely to get more capacity to Luton, although I have not looked at last summer's pax figures.
I think BA sum it up well, use it or loose it!

[lfc84]

The Gatwick aircraft, I believe come from Scottish bases, go down to LGW then do IOM then some Med routes, before back to IOM.

what makes you think these are Scottish based aircraft?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/u2853

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/u2855/

none of the registrations start their day in Scotland for the past week

[manx crab]

Wherever the aircraft used starts or finishes they seem to be unable to run the summer late lgw rotation to schedule , the otp the last two summers of that has been woeful at times.

The only route where they seemed to have created a new market is BRS, I hope BFS does the same and would like them to do GLA/EDI in a similar vein.

In my opinion though they are not right for the core routes to London or the Northwest where I think frequency/schedule is more important

[microkid]

I actually agree with Cumbrianboy.

Leaving the market open to the commercial world isn't necessarily a good thing for an island or rural community. As private commercial airlines need to realise direct profits, this can lead to high fares, unreliable services, chopping and changing routes to suit etc.

Similar to Guernsey, I'd like to see an economic enabler flying the manx flag, i.e state backed airline or PSO subsidy for example. The right fleet (e.g mix of ATR 42 / 72 turboprops) serving the Islands' needs. Regular daily flights, good connections with codeshare partners. The airline might well make a profit if done right however the majority of the profit will be realised elsewhere in the economy. At the end of the day you've got to look at the overall net gain for the economy, commercial airlines can't do this.

As an aside, from a passenger experience point of view, to be honest I hate low cost carriers flying into regional airports like the IOM, these smaller airports aren't really geared up for that. Easyjet simply creates longer queues at bag drop, security delays and a premature standing queue at the gate in true low cost style. Easyjet passengers then have to be crammed into the relatively small pre-boarding lounge just to enable them to get near an on time departure. Environmentally the medium jets are just too noisy for those living anywhere near the airport and they're actually burning about 4 times the amount of fuel on short haul routes compared to the ATR for example. (You could carry nearly double the amount of passengers on an increased frequency with the ATR for the same carbon footprint). Really like flying with Flybe, turboprops are a much nicer experience on board, much prefer the 2 x 2 seating, feels roomier than an Airbus.

[lfc84]

Wherever the aircraft used starts or finishes they seem to be unable to run the summer late lgw rotation to schedule , the otp the last two summers of that has been woeful at times.

The only route where they seemed to have created a new market is BRS, I hope BFS does the same and would like them to do GLA/EDI in a similar vein.

In my opinion though they are not right for the core routes to London or the Northwest where I think frequency/schedule is more important

BA / Eastern have reduced the frequency of their LCY-IOM service even up against a LGW service that has less rotations and worse times than its predecessor.

I think that negates the debated point

[lfc84]

Really like flying with Flybe, turboprops are a much nicer experience on board, much prefer the 2 x 2 seating, feels roomier than an Airbus.

you should enjoy it while it lasts. sooner or later the days are numbered for eastern / be / stobart

[M-JCS]

"BA / Eastern have reduced the frequency of their LCY-IOM service even up against a LGW service that has less rotations and worse times than its predecessor."

No surprise there. LCY and LGW are very different markets, and LCY is the most expensive airport in the country, particularly when you consider equipment and crew limitations required. IOM passengers don't like expensive; they even complain about the price of the ferry, as though they should be entitled to free transportation simply because they live here. But the cheap and cheerful carriers do not serve the business community (the ones that keep the economy alive) well or at all. That can only have adverse effects for the IOM economy.

[lfc84]

How much capacity do easyjet offer? 50% of all passenger numbers?

It's lo co that's propping up the passenger figures.

Business travellers have abandoned the expensive legacy carriers eastern and ba.

If business want to use eastern or ba simply crack on. There's nothing stopping people spending the extrain and travelling on more expensive carriers.

Let those who wish to use was yet do so.

The only ones expanding are easyjet.


Get used to it

[SWBKCB]

Yep, IOM's going to get what it wants, not what it needs.

[M-JCS]

Yep, precisely, which is one of he reasons I'm going elsewhere and taking my business with me. And there is no doubt I'm not the only one. Without long-term reliable transport links for business passengers, this place will only continue its downward slide.

[lfc84]

It's your opinion of what the place needs.

The passenger numbers speak for themselves

[cumbrianboy]

The London market has been essentially stagnant since the mid 2000s. At a time when every other market to London has grown (such as Jersey, Guernsey etc as has been pointed out above) the IOM market is stable. easyJet have done NOTHING for this market except stifle growth.

The passenger numbers do not speak for themselves, the IOM passenger market peaked around 2006/2008 and has never recovered since then

the LPL market is actually no bigger now that it ever has been, again easyJet have not done much for that market.

I do understand that leisure passengers (who travel once or twice a year) think easyJet is the best thing since sliced bread, but the reality is they are not. As has been pointed out above, the economy is suffering and business is suffering.

Now the IOM economy is starting to show signs of decline. Now I am not saying this is a direct result of air services, but it is a well know and accepted fact that air services sustain and provide a catalyst to economic development. And the lack of services on the IOM are a contributory factor to the drop in economic activity.

Like I said, for the leisure market (and dare I say it, the spotters) easyJet are fine, but as had been said by me and others above, what the Island wants and what it needs are two different things, and we certainly do not have a well connected Island.

Also, as a point, my comment above about connectivity was not about providing connections, it was was about a high frequency network of direct flights.

If you consider that the IOM once had direct air services to JER, SOU, LBA, NCL, EMA, GLO, LTN, STN you start to see my point

We also used to have at least daily flights to EDI, GLA, BRS and multiple daily flights to BHD.

Now we don't and this is all as a result of open skies and leaving it up to market forces. What we have suits the airlines, it does not serve the Island.

My final point, and then I think I have said all I can on the matter, I think my views are well known, is about LCY. I am confused about the comment that BACF/T3 have reduced the service. As far as I know it is still, and always has been 3 flights a day, and from what I know they are well supported.

[Thad Jarvis]

The sad reality here is that airlines (even the supposedly national ones) no longer have any interest or obligation to cater to the whims of regional societies. A route either makes money or it doesn't. If it doesn't it becomes history. What I'm hearing is that the island requires a PSO type operation to protect 'vital' links or its own airline. im pretty sure you've had the latter several times (Manx, Euromanx, Citywing/M2) and several based aircraft over the years (Flybe, Arran etc) so that really only leaves the PSO option. Anybody know why there are no PSO arrangements?

[IOMX]

Cumbrianboy I completely agree with you the island needs strong connectivity with frequent well timed flights throughout the day. Like you I dont really understand the comment about reduced frequency on the BACF LCY route it has three rotations a day, yes this is less than Flybe provided into LGW but LCY has been three rotations for a while except for a brief period where they increased it. For some strange reason people on this forum seem to like to bash BACF when I consider they provide one of the best services to the island certainly the only one from London with 3 rotations on a weekday every day throughout the year. I still maintain if more people supported it BACF would upgrade to the E170, Eastern have one potentially spare after their abhorted experiment into the Shetland Isles. I accept that the BACF fare is higher but if people think a 22GBP flight is sustainable or makes sense then they are dreaming perhaps they should try travelling on a train from north to south on the mainland and see how much that costs!
Also if anyone thinks the answer to serving the island is Easyjet then I suspect they are misguided. For a start during the key summer months they reduce down to one rotation a day into LGW on some days and thats late in the day so anyone wanting to get off the island will not arrive into central London until around 11.30pm at best, most likely gone midnight factoring in for frequent delays.
And if anybody thinks Easyjet offer good value just take a look at the price they are charging for getting off the island one way between Christmas and New Year at 175GBP!

[Manx]

And if anybody thinks Easyjet offer good value just take a look at the price they are charging for getting off the island one way between Christmas and New Year at 175GBP!

It didn't cost me anything like that just 2 weeks ago. In fact, there's only one day at the moment where ticket prices are around that figure and that flight is probably packed. The cheapest ticket price between the 26th and 31st is currently £37. All in all, the prices are not so bad considering it's a fortnight away!

Easyjet don't provide an ideal London service from a time perspective. However, leisure passengers don't really care all that much as they can get much cheaper prices if they plan ahead then they could previously. Those flights appear to be packed largely with leisure passengers. Leisure passengers have other options for connecting to Europe (Manchester or Liverpool) or further afield (Manchester).

As far as business travel goes, the business that I work for has been progressively tightening travel budgets to save money over the last 10/15 years. That's common across many IoM businesses. Many of the islands businesses are now under much tighter regulation than they used to be which comes at a price. There is a race to the bottom now in terms of the costs of services provided to end customers. All of that leads to a decreased need for overall volumes of business travel. We no longer have the same level of need to travel as frequently as we once did.

Where we do travel, we no longer want to pay prices that once kept multiple frequency flights running per day to London where there are half empty planes (as was often the case to Gatwick with FlyBe). The government clearly doesn't have money to burn to chuck into subsidising flights on our behalf as an alternative.

There's still a need to have people in and out of London in one day and we still use London City for that with few issues. If we need to connect to other parts of the country then we'll commonly use Manchester. If we need connecting flights non-UK then we use any of Manchester, London City and Gatwick. The flight times aren't always perfect but we generally don't have much difficulty booking flights that get us where we need to be.

I accept that there are a small minority of companies/individuals on the island who need to travel regularly and at different frequencies. But they're in a minority and our island only has the population of a small to medium sized town in the UK.

[IOMX]

Manx I agree that the 175GBP is for one day in that week and yes its likely to be one of the last few tickets available. My point is Easyjet are not always that cheap they are more than happy to charge silly fares if they can. And the reason that has happened is because there is insufficient supply over the Christmas and New Year period and that puts up the prices. More evidence of not serving the island community if you ask me!

[lfc84]

BA LCY-IOM was 4 sectors per day in the past. An Embraer was scheduled on some sectors but it was pulled

[lfc84]

And if anybody thinks Easyjet offer good value just take a look at the price they are charging for getting off the island one way between Christmas and New Year at 175GBP!

Buy a flexi for £90 and move it.

If you were a frequent traveller you might know that already

[JSCL]

Now living in the IOM... no complaints over the air links so far. One thing you learn with travelling on business now, you don't care for specific flight times as much as maybe once you did.... you just deal with what's available and plan appropriately. That's what I have come to expect with low cost travel...

[IOMX]

lfc84 I can assure I am a regular traveller although I choose to fly from LCY using BACF as its a far better timed service I can leave the island on the 7am flight and be in central London before 9am! No chance ever with Easyjet. Yes you can book a flexi fare if you so want to play around with dates and follow their rules but even then you are paying 90gbp one way which is hardly the low fares people believe Easy Jet offer!

[lfc84]

My point is simply that business pax can crack on and use the higher frequency BA / Eastern flights and leisure pax can use the orange jets.

If people want to fly U2 because it is actually or perceived as cheaper then let them do so.

If there's a market / profit for BA or Eastern to operate a 7am service then it will continue irrespective of a U2 flight arriving at 2300.

Each to their own.

[Skipness One Echo]

It’s not true to say only business pax fly to LCY and LGW is leisure only. On my trips to the IOM, the LCY has been a decent mix. If EZY win too many leisure pax at the expense of BA then business lose the frequent link. They don’t exist in isolation by any means.

[Plane.Silly]

True, but it's where the majority of them go (or the perception of it at the very least)

[lfc84]

https://www.gov.im/news/2018/feb/15/measures-being-taken-to-improve-airport-passenger-experience/

A major project to deliver improvements to the security and search processes at Isle of Man Airport is being taken forward to modernise security arrangements and reduce waiting times. This will involve significant investment in equipment as well as in the additional staffing needed to operate the second scanning line at busy times.

The entrance to the Central Security Area is to be relocated and will continue to include a separate dedicated route for passengers requesting assistance, such as those with reduced mobility or medical needs, or those attending hospital appointments in the UK.

Automatic boarding card readers will be installed at the new entrance to improve information to the airlines and speed the entire process.

The security area will be remodelled, increasing in size by 160 square metres, allowing more space for passengers to prepare their hand luggage, liquids and gadgets before reaching the security equipment.

A further improvement will see an automatic tray return system integrated with the X-ray equipment, enabling several passengers to put their belongings on to the X-ray queue at the same time.

The Department’s contractor has been asked to recruit the additional staff needed to allow the second X-ray line to be operated at peak times.

Infrastructure Minister Ray Harmer MHK said:

‘I understand passengers’ frustrations and much work has taken place to find the most effective solution and obtain the necessary approvals to make the changes. I would like to thank passengers for their continuing patience while these improvements are being made.’

Tim Baker MHK, political member for the Ports Division, said:

‘We want to get this right and have looked at a range of options. We are determined we get value for money, and that the solutions are sustainable for the long term.

‘As soon as we have a confirmed programme of works, which it’s hoped will start shortly after Easter following final confirmation of equipment delivery times, the Department will provide more details.’

[lfc84]

Record passenger figures at Airport in 2017
• Significant increase in harbour traffic

Passenger figures at the Isle of Man Airport in 2017 were the highest on record.

Annual statistics published by the Department of Infrastructure also show a significant increase in the number of people using the Island’s harbours.

Infrastructure Minister Ray Harmer MHK has welcomed the strong demand for air and sea services as a positive indicator for the Manx economy.

A total of 807,426 passengers passed through the Airport last year, topping the previous record set in 2005 by 772 (0.1%).

The solid performance of the Island’s main markets contributed to the 2017 figure, which represents a rise of 3,603 passengers (0.45%) compared with 2016.

The North West routes saw a new high of 397,300 passengers, with Liverpool registering an increase of 16,600 and Manchester 7,000 during the year.

The number of air travellers using the London routes increased to more than 250,000 overall, with 10,200 more passengers flying to the capital than in the previous 12 months. This figure was boosted by the start of summer flights to Luton, which will resume from the end of March, and an increase of 14,300 passengers on the Gatwick route.

Other markets, including Birmingham, Dublin and Bristol, also performed well and although some smaller regional routes were affected by the closure of CityWing, other operators stepped in to offer new destinations.

Ann Reynolds, Director of Ports, said: ‘The continued strength of the North West market is particularly encouraging and the figures demonstrate that air and sea routes can grow side by side. The airlines have added capacity and frequency on major routes to reflect demand and stimulate new business. In terms of our sea services, Liverpool moved ahead of Heysham in 2017 to become the most popular destination for ferry passengers.’

Statistics for 2017 showed that 614,456 passengers passed through the Island’s sea ports, an increase of 17,438 (2.9%) compared with 2016.

Almost 584,000 people travelled on scheduled ferry sailings, representing 94.9% of the overall figure and an increase of 3.4% on the previous year.

The Liverpool route carried almost 21,700 more passengers than Heysham, while the Dublin and Belfast sailings saw increases of 23% and 11.6% respectively.

Tim Baker MHK, DOI Member with responsibility for Ports, said: ‘Our air and sea links with the United Kingdom are absolutely vital to the economic and social wellbeing of the Isle of Man. The record-breaking performance at the Airport is very encouraging and continues the upwards trend in passenger numbers. We will continue to work with our carriers to build on these impressive figures in the years ahead.’

[lfc84]

Updated 18 minutes ago by easyJet Operations Control
Why your flight is cancelled:
We're sorry that your flight has been cancelled. Due to an issue with de-icing equipment in Isle of Man we are unable to de-ice your plane

[EZYMAN]

Updated 18 minutes ago by easyJet Operations Control
Why your flight is cancelled:
We're sorry that your flight has been cancelled. Due to an issue with de-icing equipment in Isle of Man we are unable to de-ice your plane

It really doesn’t make sense that just the LPL is Canx. LGW and BE flights are still operating?? Unless there starting to restrict flights?

[lfc84]

I sent easyjet a twitter message about the above, and they replied with: "I'm sorry the de-icing machine has broken down"

[EMX81L]

The based Stobart ATRs and Eastern Saab2000 were free of ice contamination and were able to depart without de-icing. The apron and walkways needed to be deemed safe for staff and passengers to walk on, hence a few delays. Safety first.

The LGW arrived, which needed deicing. Unfortunately, there was a technical problem the deice rig, which took time to rectify.

EZY Ops took the decision early to CANX the LPL. This decision was taken not long after the rig became serviceable. However, the decision was already taken to CANX the LPL.

[lfc84]

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-let-l-410-uvp-e-ok-laz

[lfc84]

Quick look at easyjet W19 and it shows BFS is year round. LPL increases to three flights on Sundays (eg 4, 11 Nov). I haven't checked other dates.

[Haven't a clue]

They will need the new second security lane operating all the time then ;)

[EMX81L]

Taking a look at the easyJet schedule for Winter 18/19, BRS, LGW and LPL times remain pretty much the same as winter 17/18.

12th Apr 2018 11:49
lfc84 Quick look at easyjet W19 and it shows BFS is year round. LPL increases to three flights on Sundays (eg 4, 11 Nov). I haven't checked other dates.

The 3 LPL flights on the Sunday are extras around the school holidays it appears. Good to see the late flight in over the weekend, with no fast craft sailings over the winter. Opens up more opportunities for weekends away for shopping and north west football matches. I still think the Saturday lunchtime departure needs to be moved to the morning to allow a longer day in Liverpool. It would also allow match go'ers to watch any lunchtime games. Still, good to see extra capacity.

BFS continues into winter 18/19 as expected, with the Monday departure moving to 08:20, 5mins after the EZY LPL.

LTN remains summer seasonal.

[Haven't a clue]

5mins after the EZY LPL

A real challenge for Menzies then?

[EMX81L]

Every Sunday this Summer, there's an LGW at 21:05 and LTN at 21:10, not much of an issue so far with one getting the holding lounge and the other boarding straight out of the gate.

[Tonyq]

A small enhancement, which seems to be overlooked in the above analysis, is that LGW stays double daily throughout November and December (except Saturdays), whereas it dropped to daily, mid-week, in 2017.

Hopefully, BFS 2/7 will work well, like Bristol has, and easyJet will then look to do something similar to EDI or GLA in the near future?

[lfc84]

Flybe has confirmed to Isle of Man Newspapers the airline will re-establish its former Ronaldsway base.

Currently, Flybe flights from the island are operated under an agreement with Stobart Air, a deal which will end on March 31 next year.

A company spokesman said: ’Flybe can confirm that the arrangement it has with franchise partner, Stobart Air, for the [Liverpool and Man chester] routes will end next year.

’And that, with effect from March 31, 2019, both will continue on Flybe’s own 78-seat Bombardier Q400 aircraft from a newly-established base.

’Flybe looks forward to continuing to serve the island community and to welcoming customers back on board including those travelling under its renewed three year contract with the Isle of Man Department of Health and Social Care.’

The airline later confirmed that new base will be at Ronaldsway.

The move has been welcomed by passenger watchdog Travelwatch after airport bosses confirmed discussions had been held with the airline.

A Travelwatch spokesman said: ’We believe it is a very positive move for the island for many reasons.

’It firstly shows a commitment to the island from the airline because if you set up a base somewhere, employ staff and everything that goes with it, it becomes much less likely that airline will pull out.

’At the moment, no airline has a base here and that means an airline could just leave if it decided the island isn’t profitable, so yes it is a positive move.’

Isle of Man Newspapers understands that Stobart Air crews were recently told the contract with Flybe would not be renewed next year.

Stobart has operated Flybe routes to and from the island for a number of years, mostly to Liverpool and Manchester with a daily flight to Birmingham.

The Travelwatch spokesman noted that the group hopes the decision could lead to more routes opening to and from the island in the future.

He explained that at present two aircraft are used for Manx routes but that Flybe could be interested in operating a third aircraft, as would be the company’s standard practice for smaller regional airports.

He added: ’The aircraft will also hopefully be better suited to the needs of patients who travel to Liverpool for treatment.

’Due to the aircraft used by Stobart, the ATR 72-500, patients transfers are currently loaded only from the rear door. Hopefully, with a two door aircraft like Flybe usually operate, this should be easier for them.

’The aircraft that the company usually operates have a higher capacity too which would be good for the island.’

The current ATR 72-500 aircraft contain hold 72 passengers while Flybe’s Bombardier Q400 aircraft will hold 78 passengers.

The Travelwatch spokesman was hopeful the move could provide more work for aircraft engineers in the island.

Stobart Air also operates Dublin flights to and from the island under the Aer Lingus Regional brand.

[Tonyq]

Flybe to LCY would be an obvious way for them to create a three a/c base. The current BA/Eastern operation must an expensive embarrassment, at times, to all involved.

[PENNINE BOY]

I am afraid Easy will do what is commercially right for them. If IoM wants services that support its community objectives then either it or the UK government will need to financially support it. Can it be funded out of registration of all those business jets?

Just as you say! I had a meeting the other year re a service to London and other flights, with the Ann Reynolds and the then head of the Manx CAA.

To operate a service based in the IOM with a Avro RJ, it could be funded with putting a charge on all the Bizjet regestrations and plilot validations, plus the 1/2 million they hand out for the hospital contract, they could have a service.

They were not interested at all, as City Flyer aka Eastern would be the savior!

[PENNINE BOY]

I actually agree with Cumbrianboy.

Leaving the market open to the commercial world isn't necessarily a good thing for an island or rural community. As private commercial airlines need to realise direct profits, this can lead to high fares, unreliable services, chopping and changing routes to suit etc.

Similar to Guernsey, I'd like to see an economic enabler flying the manx flag, i.e state backed airline or PSO subsidy for example. The right fleet (e.g mix of ATR 42 / 72 turboprops) serving the Islands' needs. Regular daily flights, good connections with codeshare partners. The airline might well make a profit if done right however the majority of the profit will be realised elsewhere in the economy. At the end of the day you've got to look at the overall net gain for the economy, commercial airlines can't do this.

As an aside, from a passenger experience point of view, to be honest I hate low cost carriers flying into regional airports like the IOM, these smaller airports aren't really geared up for that. Easyjet simply creates longer queues at bag drop, security delays and a premature standing queue at the gate in true low cost style. Easyjet passengers then have to be crammed into the relatively small pre-boarding lounge just to enable them to get near an on time departure. Environmentally the medium jets are just too noisy for those living anywhere near the airport and they're actually burning about 4 times the amount of fuel on short haul routes compared to the ATR for example. (You could carry nearly double the amount of passengers on an increased frequency with the ATR for the same carbon footprint). Really like flying with Flybe, turboprops are a much nicer experience on board, much prefer the 2 x 2 seating, feels roomier than an Airbus.

Travelling public are interested in the fare price, not really the noise footprint! You can get a midsize regional jet for around 2 million $ But a ATR or Dash is around 18 million$.

[M-JCS]

Travelling public are interested in the fare price, not really the noise footprint! You can get a midsize regional jet for around 2 million $ But a ATR or Dash is around 18 million$.

Methinks you'd best check out the economics of what you propose. Other operations have gone to the wall very quickly with the same sort of thinking.

[Flightrider]

Haven't we been here before and wasn't it called Euromanx?

It is virtually impossible to run a small, sustainable airline nowadays. The pressure on yields and costs of compliance, in terms of the infrastructure you have to have to run an airline and meet the regulatory requirements, are two conflicting pressures which make it very difficult indeed to be a small airline. If anyone is thinking of starting one, I've a word of advice. Don't.

[Laughing Frog]

What’s been going on the last few days with all the cancellations looks like they’ve all been at it

[jijpc]

With regard to FlyBe the problems seem to be linked to technical problems with ATR72 EI-REL and both Stobart and Flybe do not appear to have spare aircraft which is not a surprise given that it is the summer peak season.

I think issues with other carriers are weather related. BA CityFlyer and EasyJet have been impacted by the weather on the island on Saturday morning and particularly given the thunderstorms that have been prevalent in the South East of England over the weekend. This must have impacted on schedules and crewing hours issues.

At least EZY have operated additional rotations to/from both Gatwick and Liverpool today in order to catch up with some of the weekend cancellations.

[BAladdy]

Loganair are taking over from Eastern Airways as operator of BACF’s up to 3 x daily IOM-LCY service from 01SEP18. Crew currently based at IOM and employed by Eastern are to be TUPEd to Loganair. Flights will be operated by a S2000 which will be based at IOM. It is unclear if the S2000 operating the route will be painted in full BA livery.

Hopefully Loganair will prove to more reliable operator than Eastern Airways has been in recent months.

[Alteagod]

Would there be any ground time to allow them to do IOM-BHD?

[Tinwald]

Good idea fella. The Euromanxies, god bless em, used to do City then Belfast city with the same aircraft every weekday morning, yessir

[cornishsimon]

Very much doubt BA would be interested in running IOM-BHD to be honest. If they were then surely they would of been having eastern operate in already ?

the only options I could see for BA would be to operate IOM-DUB in the downtime using BA / EI codes to potentially free up an art Lingus bird or to operate to Manchester should BA / AA ever increase long haul.


cs

[Alteagod]

Sorry i meant could they operate it as a Loganair flight.

[manx crab]

There would be plenty of time as they were doing 4 LCY rotations with the one aircraft ( although with later finish time) up to the start of last winter although I cannot see why anyone would want to take on EZY on the relative;y thin Belfast routes.
I just hope Loganair can run the service punctually and reliably although it is a pity BACityflyer did not decide to use their own metal on the service and give EZY a bit more competition on the London routes

[pabely]

Perhaps the two hueys in this weekend could run a shuttle service to Belfast Harbour! 😛

[BAladdy]

I have been traveling twice a week to the island from LCY on a regular basis over a year now and have experienced just how bad this service had become. Last minute cancellations, lengthy delays and dirty aircraft cabins has become the norm in recent months and was glad to here that BACF had not renewed T3’s lease and that Loganair would be taking over as operator on the route.

Just completed 2 roundtrips from LCY this week. All 4 flights arrived and departed either on time or early, the cabin was very clean and the onboard service was excellent, Couldn’t fault them. I know it’s early days but it is a good start.

I might be wrong but I am sure it is the same crew operating the route that operated when it was T3. During the flight I was talking to the crew onboard and they said that the route had lost a lot of business particularly in recent months as it had become so unreliable. Hopefully they haven’t lost that much that the route can’t come back from.

[JSCL]

I have been traveling twice a week to the island from LCY on a regular basis over a year now and have experienced just how bad this service had become. Last minute cancellations, lengthy delays and dirty aircraft cabins has become the norm in recent months and was glad to here that BACF had not renewed T3’s lease and that Loganair would be taking over as operator on the route.

Just completed 2 roundtrips from LCY this week. All 4 flights arrived and departed either on time or early, the cabin was very clean and the onboard service was excellent, Couldn’t fault them. I know it’s early days but it is a good start.

I might be wrong but I am sure it is the same crew operating the route that operated when it was T3. During the flight I was talking to the crew onboard and they said that the route had lost a lot of business particularly in recent months as it had become so unreliable. Hopefully they haven’t lost that much that the route can’t come back from.

It's pretty much a subsidised route anyway... Pokerstars and Microgaming each commit to minimum seats on each flight, every day.

[milleriom]

Quoted from: Isle Of Man Airport Customer Reviews SKYTRAX (http://www.airlinequality.com/airport-reviews/isle-of-man-ronaldsway-airport)

Isle Of Man Airport 1/10 "it is still the same chaos"

Brian Hill (United Kingdom) 20th August 2018

✅ Trip Verified (http://www.airlinequality.com/verified-reviews/) Ronaldsway is tiny but it is obviously the intention of the staff to make transiting this airport as unpleasant as possible. Arrivals were fine but departure was not a nice experience, the previous LCY flight had been cancelled, (not an uncommon occurrence) and the check-in staff couldn't decide whether help the stranded passengers or check-in people for the next flight. I understand security has been improved, no it hasn't, it is still the same chaos and rude staff you would rather be somewhere else. I have had two hip replacements which cause everything to bleep, so why get me to remove my shoes and then a cursory pass with the wand? When boarding was announced, those requiring assistance, us, were told to go to the 'green area' outside security - needless to say we disregarded the instruction. We've been flying to IoM for twenty years and every-time we pass thru' Ronaldsway, we vow - never again but that means we wont see the family on the island.

Recommended X

[Dct_Mopas]

So a passenger who doesn’t like the UK security requirements moans about the process and that means IOM security is unfit.😂😂

Think not, same process for all. Be it passengers, airline crew, assistance passengers or the security personnel themselves.

[milleriom]

(So a passenger who doesn’t like the UK security requirements moans about the process and that means IOM security is unfit.😂😂

Think not, same process for all. Be it passengers, airline crew, assistance passengers or the security personnel themselves.

I think you seem to have missed the key issue ('the…..chaos') which has been impacting on countless increasingly disgruntled local and visiting pax.

That issue is the fact that the time taken to clear IOM Airport Security has deteriorated enormously since around one year ago - and often to levels beyond absurd. Despite much delayed decisions as to how to address this and the incurring of significant public purse expenditures, there is still a major problem because the management has failed to adequately deal with the issue.

Cheers

Milleriom

[tczulu]

Well,I flew back Sunday 26 August to Birmingham. Security could not have been better. Perfect,unlike the executive lounge that shuts from Saturday pm until Monday!

[lfc84]

Well,I flew back Sunday 26 August to Birmingham. Security could not have been better. Perfect,unlike the executive lounge that shuts from Saturday pm until Monday!
Current Opening Hours
Monday - Friday
05:45 - 19:00
Saturday
05:45 - 13:30
Sunday
12:00 - 20:00

[virginblue]

(

I think you seem to have missed the key issue ('the…..chaos') which has been impacting on countless increasingly disgruntled local and visiting pax.

That issue is the fact that the time taken to clear IOM Airport Security has deteriorated enormously since around one year ago - and often to levels beyond absurd. Despite much delayed decisions as to how to address this and the incurring of significant public purse expenditures, there is still a major problem because the management has failed to adequately deal with the issue.

At what chaos are we looking at here? IOM has on average 18-20 daily departures, mostly on aircraft with less than 80 seats. With just three based aircraft with less than 200 seats in total, even the morning departure "wave" appears to be manageable unless you really screw up.

[lfc84]

10 - 15 minutes to get through security is not uncommon nowadays

[EZYMAN]

easyJet Luton up to 5x Weekly next spring

[Tonyq]

easyJet Luton up to 5x Weekly next spring

Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun looks like 4 x weekly to me, much as it was this Spring.

You're not getting confused by the daily service over TT period, are you?

[CandyBender]

Am I missing something, or have Eastern given up again? I just went to book GLA-IOM in October and can't find any reference to the route on either Flybe or Easterns websites..... Looks like it'll be Virgin Trains and the "Ben".....

[goldeneye]

Am I missing something, or have Eastern given up again? I just went to book GLA-IOM in October and can't find any reference to the route on either Flybe or Easterns websites..... Looks like it'll be Virgin Trains and the "Ben".....

Yea the flight has been dropped.

Loganair do flights from Edinburgh a few days a week.

[CandyBender]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected.....hopefully LM will start GLA as well as EDI.



Yea the flight has been dropped.

Loganair do flights from Edinburgh a few days a week.

[awwdabaaby]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected.....hopefully LM will start GLA as well as EDI.

They have had a lot of requests for Glasgow on Facebook and each reply has been this is something we will look into for Summer 2019

[IOMX]

I notice the BACF service to London City now operated by Loganair is showing much improved reliability and punctuality well done Loganair! Given the improved service I would encourage as many people as possible to use this service and ensure it is maintained to at least its current frequency. There is nothing more powerful for maintaining a route than airlines realising people want to use it! It remains the best timed most frequent service into London with speedy connections right into the heart of London.

[JSCL]

I notice the BACF service to London City now operated by Loganair is showing much improved reliability and punctuality well done Loganair! Given the improved service I would encourage as many people as possible to use this service and ensure it is maintained to at least its current frequency. There is nothing more powerful for maintaining a route than airlines realising people want to use it! It remains the best timed most frequent service into London with speedy connections right into the heart of London.
Have to say, as someone who uses this route a few times a month, I am MUCH preferring Loganair operating it.

[CandyBender]

Same here!

The cabin of the Loganair aircraft also seems to lack the ingrained muck that used to adorn every nook and cranny on G-CDEB and G-CDKA.

[RVF750]

And the 40kt crosswind capability of the Saab didn't hurt too much this morning either...

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Any plans for a BA paint job?

[Haven't a clue]

Any plans for a BA paint job?

Eastern crews wore BA uniform and the safety cards carried BA branding; Loganair crews wear Loganair uniforms and the safety cards are Loganair's. The only passenger facing BA bits are the airport/cabin announcements, inflight magazines, website booking engine and flight numbers. So far we have seen 2 Loganair airframes on the route. I think a BA paint job is thus unlikely..

[EGNS]

Loganair may be dropping the Saab 2000's on the IOM-LCY route for ATR's. I hope Flybe consider using a Q400 into LHR from IOM, which they operate on the LHR-EDI route. If only they would offer a regular Embraer service.

[virginblue]

My understanding is that Loganair are dropping the Saab 2000s (and Dornier 328s) asap and are replacing them with six (IIRC) Embraer 135/145s - which are no good for IOM-LCY as either too small or not certified. As I understand, the ATR42-600s will join at at laterp oint as a replacement for the Saab 340s. So it appears the Loganair Saab 2000 will need to be replaced sooner than later by BACF.

[PAXboy]

EGNS Can you clarify the Flybe LHR-EDI comment I hope Flybe consider using a Q400 into LHR from IOM ... does that mean we are regaining a direct from LHR??

[oapilot]

The Embraers aren’t direct replacements for the Saab 2000s, some of the 2000 routes will be picked up by ATRs. As stated, there are some routes the Embraer simply can’t do.

[Tonyq]

EGNS Can you clarify the Flybe LHR-EDI comment does that mean we are regaining a direct from LHR??

No chance of IOM-LHR being restored. EGNS clearly in a land of complete fantasy!

[PAXboy]

EU takes action against Isle of Man over tax loophole on private jets
European commission writes to UK over ‘abusive practices’ in crown dependency

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/09/eu-takes-action-against-isle-of-man-over-tax-loophole-on-private-jets)

[M-JCS]

" EU takes action against Isle of Man over tax loophole on private jets
European commission writes to UK over ‘abusive practices’ in crown dependency "

In other words, they haven't found anything unlawful. They just don't like the tax systems in the UK and Italy. Not really a surprise.

[SWBKCB]

Further up the article it says the Commission "has launched infringement proceedings" - so not just a warning, this has a long way to go.

[milleriom]

Likely buyers are Stobart or Private Equity groups. Wouldn't it be ironic if Stobart buys them (as they also looked at doing a few months ago) just before they were leaving the IOM based Manchester & Liverpool Flybe franchise routes

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-and-fuel-costs-force-airline-flybe-to-put-itself-up-for-sale-11553619

Brexit and fuel costs force airline Flybe to put itself up for sale

Sky News13 November 2018

Flybe, the UK-based airline, is putting itself up for sale weeks after a savage profit warning triggered by currency volatility and higher fuel costs sent its shares plunging.

Sky News has learnt that the Exeter-based carrier, which said last month that it expected to lose £12m this year, will announce to the London Stock Exchange (Other OTC: LDNXF - news) on Wednesday that its board has begun exploring a sale to or merger with a rival.

Bankers at Evercore have been brought in to handle the talks about a potential deal.

Sources said a combination of Brexit-related uncertainty‎, the weaker pound and soaring fuel costs had led Flybe's directors to conclude that a takeover was likely to be required to preserve its future.

The news will be disclosed alongside Flybe's interim results.

One potential suitor is likely to be Stobart Group, the owner of Southen Airport, where ‎Flybe is based, bankers said on Tuesday evening.

Stobart, which is the focus of a bitter courtroom battle between board members and its former chief executive, abandoned a previous bid ‎earlier this year.

Flybe, which is now valued at just £25m by the stock market, remains one of the UK's best-known airline brands, carrying thousands of passengers between second-tier British airports and European destinations.

The carrier has cut hundreds of jobs and closed unprofitable sites as it has sought to exert a grip on costs amid an intensifying industry price war.

At the end of September, Flybe retained a fleet numbering 78 aircraft, and has promised investors that it would continue to reduce capacity to focus on its most popular routes.

"Consumer demand in domestic and near-continent markets has weakened in recent weeks and the board now expects this to continue into the second half," the company said last month.

"This together with higher fuel prices and weaker sterling will impact the expected second-half profit performance."

Christine Ourmieres-Widener, Flybe's chief executive, said at the time that the company was focused on "stronger cost discipline...against the headwinds of currency and fuel costs".

It was unclear which other airlines might be interested in acquiring Flybe, although bankers speculated that turnaround funds would examine offers to take the company private.

Apart from the Brexit-related impact on sterling, the UK's departure from the EU is also causing profound uncertainty for investors in British airlines with a no-deal outcome still a possibility.

A Flybe spokesman declined to comment.

[EZYMAN]

It’s most denfinatly been brewing for a while if Stobart take over it will most likely drive it further into the ground

[AirportPlanner1]

It’s most denfinatly been brewing for a while if Stobart take over it will most likely drive it further into the ground

Surely ownership by a much larger firm with wide reach and deep pockets will give a greater level of security at least for the immediate future?

[lfc84]

Post 2693 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a-135.html#post10360817) on the Manchester-2 thread:


Regarding EZY at MAN I think you will see 18 airframes this summer and 20 in 2020. New routes coming soon are IOM and JER (moved from LPL base) and INN most likely to become an all year round route up to 3 times a week.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone have any info on how the LCY Route is performing.

Reliability and punctuality seems to have improved since Loganair took on the route. Has this resulted in a improvement in the loads?

[Tonyq]

Does anyone have any info on how the LCY Route is performing.

Reliability and punctuality seems to have improved since Loganair took on the route. Has this resulted in a improvement in the loads?

https://www.gov.im/media/1364150/monthly-air-traffic-summary-december-and-year-end-2018.pdf

https://www.gov.im/media/1364149/monthly-air-traffic-summary-november-2018-2.pdf

https://www.gov.im/media/1363897/monthly-air-traffic-summary-october-2018-2.pdf

So, that'll be a 'No' then!

[pabely]

Does anyone have any info on how the LCY Route is performing.

Reliability and punctuality seems to have improved since Loganair took on the route. Has this resulted in a improvement in the loads?
I certainly have not heard of any complaints recently, I think the two players who put their feet down over block bookings have been heard, not used myself for 6 months but will make inquiries.

[Jenny Tails]

Changes to the Flybe S19 schedule:

LPL down to x3 Mon-Thu & Sun (remains x4 on Fridays and x2 on Sat)

MAN down to x4 on other days also.

[desk_bound]

Changes to the Flybe S19 schedule:

LPL down to x3 Mon-Thu & Sun (remains x4 on Fridays and x2 on Sat)

MAN down to x4 on other days also.

Nows whose going to miss Stobart Air? ............... Travelwatch 😱

[fjencl]

So with the reduction in flights, will they still need 2 based q400's

[EMX81L]

The S19 Flybe schedule does indeed have reductions as mentioned above, but all seems to be normal from TT onwards W/C 27MAY-26OCT.

During those dates, one of the IOM a/c ops LPL-NQY on Wed / Sat until 31AUG.

[lfc84]

LHR - IOM commencing 21st April 1xdaily Dh8 Q400

[jijpc]

The introduction of the IOM - LHR using an IOM based Q400 will have an effect on the IOM - BHX which looks like it will be serviced by a Birmingham based aircraft, albeit at varying times on each day.. On some days this looks like it will be operated by an E175.

[Flightrider]

The BHX-IOM schedules have been planned like this ever since the Flybe Summer 2019 schedule first went on sale. They haven't changed.

[jijpc]

Oh yes they have!
On 2nd April I booked an IOM-BHX return outbound from Ronaldsway at 14.45 on 25th April, returning at 16.10 from Birmingham on 29th April.

Within 2 days I had an email to advise me of changes and am now departing IOM at 17.15 on 25/4 returning at 15.50 on 29/4 both flights now operating on an E175 which will be a BHX based aircraft. Also a look at the timetable now seems to show different times on different days of the week.

[Flightrider]

The different times on different days of the week element has been there ever since the TT went on sale. Some of those may individually have changed but the overall notion has not.

[EMX81L]

EasyJet Winter 19/20 schedule sees an additional flight to BRS each week - Mon, Fri, Sun. Also, the Sunday night LPL, which was operating during half terms and Christmas, will now operate every week, apart from the 6 week lull from start of January to mid February. Apart from that, all pretty much the same as winter 18/19.

[lfc84]

Super Break will charter Titan Airways on 3 February 2020 for a service to Iceland

[SWBKCB]

Thought adverts were banned?

[PAXboy]

They are. It will be dealt with as it has been reported to the Mods.

[lfc84]

LHR - IOM commencing 21st April 1xdaily Dh8 Q400

This will not continue in W19

[M-JCS]

So predictions were right ---- it was a mere slot sitting exercise?

[JobsaGoodun]

This will not continue in W19

Say's who?

[lfc84]

Flybe has announced that the airline will no longer have a base on the Isle of Man as part of a new programme with Stobart Air taking over operations.

In a statement released by the company today they say that the final Heathrow service will cease to operate on Friday 26 October this year - something Energy FM News reported in May. (https://www.energyfm.net/cms/news_story_577693.html)

It states that flights between Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester will continue as normal, with two Stobart Air models replacing the Flybe Q400s.

They say that the existing contract with the Isle of Man Department of Health and Social Care will remain in place, supporting customers seeking to access health services in the UK.

New Stobart Air operations are planned to enter service on 5 January neat year, followed by a second ATR on 29 March 2020, when Stobart Air will assume full Isle of Man operations and continue to operate these routes.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Didn't Stobart operate two based ATR72s until very recently? Pretty sure I flew IOM-MAN on one of the two on first wave recently...

[PDXCWL45]

Didn't Stobart operate two based ATR72s until very recently? Pretty sure I flew IOM-MAN on one of the two on first wave recently...
Yes they did and the previous management took it inhouse. It will be interesting to see if Stobart take over other bases or former bases.

[Tonyq]

Yes they did and the previous management took it inhouse. It will be interesting to see if Stobart take over other bases or former bases.

This looks like further muddled, confused, short-term decision making by the new regime, as far as IOM is concerned. A media release quoted by Manx Radio apparently says that the Q400’s are “unsuited” to IOM operations which is clearly a lie. The IOM routes are very similar to 75% of the BE network, in terms of distance, frequency and traffic, and BE operated them very happily, for 10 years before Stobart came on the scene.

In any event I thought that Stobart had injected their flying assets into the new Connect set up, so FlyBe, Stobart, Connect should all be one big happy family, before long.

[PDXCWL45]

This looks like further muddled, confused, short-term decision making by the new regime, as far as IOM is concerned. A media release quoted by Manx Radio apparently says that the Q400’s are “unsuited” to IOM operations which is clearly a lie. The IOM routes are very similar to 75% of the BE network, in terms of distance, frequency and traffic, and BE operated them very happily, for 10 years before Stobart came on the scene.

In any event I thought that Stobart had injected their flying assets into the new Connect set up, so FlyBe, Stobart, Connect should all be one big happy family, before long.


Depends what the new Flybe management want. It could be they want to free up the Q400s for other routes out of say Heathrow? Or other bases?
I don't know the costs but maybe the ATR is more profitable on routes from IOM?

[fjencl]

If the base is closing, does that mean that the 2 stobart aircraft which will be operating the routes will be nightstop aircraft from another base,
Or does it mean that Stobart will open a base at IOM albeit that Stobart and Flybe are effectively the same company (Connect).
Its well confusing...........

[virginblue]

Where are the (two?) ATR72s needed for future IOM-operations based at the moment? They need to be replaced there as well unless the routes on which they are currently used will be chopped.

[aurigny72]

Maybe the 2 ATRs will come from SEN if they are planning to chop those routes but who knows?

[Tagron]

The Flybe booking website currently shows that the SEN ATR routes will be discontinued in February/March. On that basis it looks like the IoM services will use the SEN aircraft. Whether those SEN services (GRQ ,RNS, NQY, CFR) will be resumed in some other way I have no idea.

I think that an earlier statement from about a year ago suggested those SEN ATR operations would only run to February 2020.

[Tonyq]

The Flybe booking website currently shows that the SEN ATR routes will be discontinued in February/March. On that basis it looks like the IoM services will use the SEN aircraft. Whether those SEN services (GRQ ,RNS, NQY, CFR) will be resumed in some other way I have no idea.

I think that an earlier statement from about a year ago suggested those SEN ATR operations would only run to February 2020.

Its reported elsewhere that they will come from the previous SAS operation, but who knows!

[Tonyq]

Depends what the new Flybe management want. It could be they want to free up the Q400s for other routes out of say Heathrow? Or other bases?
I don't know the costs but maybe the ATR is more profitable on routes from IOM?

You may be right about the Q400, but to say they are “unsuited” is just a bare-faced lie. If the ATR economics are better, then say they make the network “more sustainable”.

Of course, one thing no one has mentioned, is that Stobart management are now (partly) calling the shots, and the FlyBe management, who threw them off the routes six months ago are now............well who knows where they are!

[Alteagod]

100% agree I think Stobart are clearly in the driving seat

[jijpc]

I also have a suspicion that they had difficulty crewing the base with local staff. I flew BHX-IOM earlier this summer and a number of the passengers were Flybe cabin crew, in full uniform, presumably positioning to the island to operate flights.

[PDXCWL45]

I also have a suspicion that they had difficulty crewing the base with local staff. I flew BHX-IOM earlier this summer and a number of the passengers were Flybe cabin crew, in full uniform, presumably positioning to the island to operate flights.
They have a general shortage of crew anyway at Cardiff they are having to use Southampton based crew.

[virginblue]

I should have asked differently, so here we go: When IOM switched from Stobart to Flybe in March this year, where did the based ATR72s move to? They have only been deployed elsewhere now for something like half a year and I wonder if they are the examples that will return to IOM.

[desk_bound]

I should have asked differently, so here we go: When IOM switched from Stobart to Flybe in March this year, where did the based ATR72s move to? They have only been deployed elsewhere now for something like half a year and I wonder if they are the examples that will return to IOM.

The two Stobart 72-500's were at end of lease and returned, Connect has picked up the 5(?) 72-600's that Flybe had on the Nordic contract, I believe that these are going on the Stobart AOC and this will produce the equipment for IOM

[Tagron]

My suggestion that the IoM ATRs would be sourced from the SEN operation is now looking less likely. The Flybe SEN timetable has changed again, now showing GRQ, CFR and NQY continuing to the end of the winter period, instead of ending prematurely though RNS apparently only runs to March 1.. Perhaps this is another error that will be resolved soon !

[desk_bound]

My suggestion that the IoM ATRs would be sourced from the SEN operation is now looking less likely. The Flybe SEN timetable has changed again, now showing GRQ, CFR and NQY continuing to the end of the winter period, instead of ending prematurely though RNS apparently only runs to March 1.. Perhaps this is another error that will be resolved soon !

RNS is I believe closing for one month in the spring for major runway work to bring it up to cat II standard

[116d]

The two Stobart 72-500's were at end of lease and returned, Connect has picked up the 5(?) 72-600's that Flybe had on the Nordic contract, I believe that these are going on the Stobart AOC and this will produce the equipment for IOM


Will these be painted in neutral colours, in Flybe colours or even the first to go into a Virgin scheme with whatever name they come up with?

[116d]

You may be right about the Q400, but to say they are “unsuited” is just a bare-faced lie. If the ATR economics are better, then say they make the network “more sustainable”.
Of course, one thing no one has mentioned, is that Stobart management are now (partly) calling the shots, and the FlyBe management, who threw them off the routes six months ago are now............well who knows where they are!


I wouldn't have thought there's much in it economics-wise between Q400's and ATR 72's, though from a passenger perspective having been on both I prefer the ATR 72's and if it's -600's the bigger overhead luggage bins will be an improvement over the -212A/500's from EI-REL/M's time based at IOM. One negative of having aircraft based at IOM from the last time is if one of them goes tech or if there are delays it impacts the rest of the day's programme, whereas at the moment they can swap aircraft at BHX or MAN.

I do wonder whether this is one area where the new regime are flexing their muscles on the business and who's driving the change?

[flyerguy]

The last Flybe IOM-LHR was yesterday, I always heard that it was popular so hopefully someone will bring it back on the departure screens soon!

[JSCL]

I wouldn't have thought there's much in it economics-wise between Q400's and ATR 72's, though from a passenger perspective having been on both I prefer the ATR 72's and if it's -600's the bigger overhead luggage bins will be an improvement over the -212A/500's from EI-REL/M's time based at IOM. One negative of having aircraft based at IOM from the last time is if one of them goes tech or if there are delays it impacts the rest of the day's programme, whereas at the moment they can swap aircraft at BHX or MAN.

I do wonder whether this is one area where the new regime are flexing their muscles on the business and who's driving the change?
I was in the pub the other night and there were a few Western Atlantic engineers there. It seems another matter to consider is that they are able to (and do) carry out line maintenance on the ATRs but not the Dash.

To be fair to Stobart, I've been on the receiving end of needing to wait for a replacement aircraft getting off the IOM and it led to a <2hr delay. Nothing too drastic in my view.

[AirportPlanner1]

The last Flybe IOM-LHR was yesterday, I always heard that it was popular so hopefully someone will bring it back on the departure screens soon!

Latest stats show 64.5 per flight which isn’t too bad considering it wasn’t really peak business timings. Sadly this was always likely to be temporary until such time as the slot was needed for something more lucrative

[VickersVicount]

Latest stats show 64.5 per flight which isn’t too bad considering it wasn’t really peak business timings. Sadly this was always likely to be temporary until such time as the slot was needed for something more lucrative
IMO 64% is not actually that great for a main hub route to LHR

[kcockayne]

Looks like Guernsey has escaped that fate - for the moment.

[AirportPlanner1]

IMO 64% is not actually that great for a main hub route to LHR


No that’s 64.5 people, 83%.

[116d]

No that’s 64.5 people, 83%.

Considering the short notice of the flight and the timings, average 83% LF on a Dash 8 is reasonable. If anything, it's proven there is a market that could be tapped into if slots become available again and timings are more favourable for business trips and connecting on/off flights out of LHR, though at the same time IOM is also a prime candidate for feeding MAN once VS/Virgin Connect advance their hub plans there (though I accept you can't fly to as many destinations directly from MAN compared to LHR).

[virginblue]

But - operated as a slot warner - has it actually made money ?That is the big question. The art is not filling a plane, but earning money by doing so.

[Flightrider]

I think there has to be a fairly high level of risk that if IOM/LHR were ever to become a permanent fixture, it would spell the end of at least one other existing IOM/LON service. LGW was down 1,000 pax in July, LCY was down 1,000 pax in August versus last year. The market has grown slightly, but not by the same proportion as the capacity injected. Before there is any excitement about the ongoing viability of IOM/LHR, it merits some consideration of whether it would be a sustainable addition to the IOM network or whether it would displace one of the other links - LCY likely being the one most at risk.

[rog747]

Trying to think what we had when I was at BMA LHR when we started the IOM with 2 x 73 seat Viscount flights a day
IOM 0730/0830 LHR 0900/1000 IOM BD301/302
plus the evening peak time flight in and out of LHR around 1830 or 1900 iirc
We took the slots from BA

Also we had 3 or 4 Viscount flights a day LPL-IOM (that also connected nicely with the 4 or 5 daily LHR-LPL services usually)

[BACsuperVC10]

Trying to think what we had when I was at BMA LHR when we started the IOM with 2 x 73 seat Viscount flights a day
IOM 0730/0830 LHR 0900/1000 IOM BD301/302
plus the evening peak time flight in and out of LHR around 1830 or 1900 iirc
We took the slots from BA

Also we had 3 or 4 Viscount flights a day LPL-IOM (that also connected nicely with the 4 or 5 daily LHR-LPL services usually)

i went on a Viscount a couple of times, enjoyable flights.

[VickersVicount]

i went on a Viscount a couple of times, enjoyable flights.
With a full oven galley I think?

[Navpi]

I can't believe IOM LHR has bit the dust. I ssumed any connectivity to LHR was a licence to print money ?

[rog747]

With a full oven galley I think?

Oh yes - nice hot breakfast on the way down to LHR but only coffee and biscuits on the way back

[virginblue]

I can't believe IOM LHR has bit the dust. I ssumed any connectivity to LHR was a licence to print money ?

A single daily flight does not guarantee great connectivity. It will be mainly on high frequency routes to the continent (most of which are served via LCY as well). For longhaul or low-frequency short-haul, a daily feeder flight is not exactly useful.

[rog747]

A single daily flight does not guarantee great connectivity. It will be mainly on high frequency routes to the continent (most of which are served via LCY as well). For longhaul or low-frequency short-haul, a daily feeder flight is not exactly useful.

That's why BMA (then Manx was formed a bit later on ) had the early morning and the evening flights into and out of LHR from around 1979 - plus connex via LPL too

[PAXboy]

Manx used to have x3 rotations a day into LHR, also LTN. I used both extensively, LHR from 1980 and LTN from as soon as they started (2000 I think) and then had to use LGW (I live in Hertfordshire) and was glad when my mother returned to the mainland.

[Tonyq]

I can't believe IOM LHR has bit the dust. I ssumed any connectivity to LHR was a licence to print money ?

Have you actually read the numerous previous posts on this topic, and understood that, this was only ever a fixed term 'slot-sitting' exercise, being operated to protect a slot pair for Virgin/Delta.

[PAXboy]

It's almost like we need a third runway at LHR to enable connecting traffic ...:}

[BAladdy]

BACF have been allocated additional slots at LCY to increase frequency to IOM for the S20 schedule from 18 to 23 x weekly, according to page 7 of ACL’s LCY S20 Initial Coordination report.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/LCY-S20-Initial-Coordination-report.pdf

[VickersVicount]

BACF have been allocated additional slots at LCY to increase frequency to IOM for the S20 schedule from 18 to 23 x weekly, according to page 7 of ACL’s LCY S20 Initial Coordination report.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/LCY-S20-Initial-Coordination-report.pdf
Whether they use them or not is another story....

[IOMX]

No doubt they saw the demand created this summer with the Flybe flight to Heathrow which is extremely unlikely to operate next year. THE BACF flight operates a good reliable regular service from the island to London and should be encouraged.

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe add new 1x daily SEN-IOM service eff 30th March 2020, Great news and replaces LHR.

[JSCL]

I'm pretty convinced that this route will be well received.

[lfc84]

Flybe add new 1x daily SEN-IOM service eff 30th March 2020, Great news and replaces LHR.
SEN 1020-1135 IOM (Sun)
SEN 1050-1205 IOM (Mon-Sat)
IOM 1205-1330 SEN (Sun)
IOM 1235-1400 SEN (Mon-Sat)

[Cloud1]

With Connect Airways focus on feeding VS at LHR & MAN I do wonder how long this route will last. Flybe have practically removed all SEN flying and Stobart only have a handful.

[pabely]

SEN 1020-1135 IOM (Sun)
SEN 1050-1205 IOM (Mon-Sat)
IOM 1205-1330 SEN (Sun)
IOM 1235-1400 SEN (Mon-Sat)
If BACF use all there allocated slots for LCY route, 23pw, then this will be a non starter. I really cannot see demand for this route.

[lfc84]

Flybe have practically removed all SEN flying and Stobart only have a handful.

Flybe will 'operate' alot of new routes to and from SEN in S20

[virginblue]

With Connect Airways focus on feeding VS at LHR & MAN I do wonder how long this route will last. Flybe have practically removed all SEN flying and Stobart only have a handful.

Providing feed at LHR can at best be a longterm goal for a time when a third runway provides additional slots at LHR. In the absence of that, VS would need to sacrifice longhaul slots to accommodate feeder flights or splash out tons of money to buy slots - should someone entertain the idea of selling their precious slots. Both options are, to put it mildly, fanciful.

[jensdad]

Flybe have practically removed all SEN flying and Stobart only have a handful.
To be fair, Stobart / flybe have just today announced routes from SEN to Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast City and IoM - 2 or 3 daily each route - so that handful's just got quite a lot bigger again!

[wetlanding]

In the absence of the third runway at Heathrow these services could be operated to West London by cross rail (when Functioal) via Southend and Shenfield.

[BA318]

In the absence of the third runway at Heathrow these services could be operated to West London by cross rail (when Functioal) via Southend and Shenfield.

These flights are not for passengers connecting at LHR. It's purely for point to point traffic. Who in their right mind is going to book GLA-SEN-Train across Essex & London-LHR-Destination when you can book with KLM or Emirates or others with one straight forward stop.

[JSCL]

These flights are not for passengers connecting at LHR. It's purely for point to point traffic. Who in their right mind is going to book GLA-SEN-Train across Essex & London-LHR-Destination when you can book with KLM or Emirates or others with one straight forward stop.

This. If ever I have long haul trips to make, I'll always fly to LCY and connect to Heathrow or go via MAN. Always.

[PAXboy]

Both STN and SEN have very good European holiday and biz destinations. Otherwise, as JSCL says, they don't work. Sadly, this also applies to most UK domestic airports and has been known for 30+ years. Don't expect anythng to change and don't expect a third at LHR to magically open the options.

[vikingraider99]

This. If ever I have long haul trips to make, I'll always fly to LCY and connect to Heathrow or go via MAN. Always.

I have to do LHR-LCY soon (not my choice) with luggage … what's the best way to transfer ?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

DLR to Canning Town, Jubilee Line to Green Park and Piccadilly Line to LHR is the direct public transport option.
Option 2 is continue on Jubilee Line to Baker St, change for Bakerloo Line to Paddington for the Heathrow Express

[pabely]

I have to do LHR-LCY soon (not my choice) with luggage … what's the best way to transfer ?
If traveling both IOM -LCY & LHR - XXX with BA don't they sort that for you?

[CandyBender]

If traveling both IOM -LCY & LHR - XXX with BA don't they sort that for you?

Pre 9/11 they used to transfer connecting bags between LHR & LGW......but that service fell by the wayside as soon as security was enhanced.

[euromanxdude]

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/denmark-to-iom-flight-launched/

[Tonyq]

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/denmark-to-iom-flight-launched/

One-off charter. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[flyerguy]

So we are now looking at a real prospect of Flybe going into administration, with all flights grounded if it happens.

Wether the Connect Consortium are wanting this to happen so they pick up the pieces that they want we will see.

But it will leave the island with a considerable amount of risk - with easyJet now running less flights to Liverpool, some with no flights at all on some days.

This could leave the Islands links to the North of England a bare minimum. With Flybe operating sometimes 4x Daily flights to MAN and LPL, I’d Flybe were to fold could we see a new kid on the block to take over these? Should the worse happen over the next few days?

[BAladdy]

BACF service will switch from being operated by a S2000 to a ATR42-500 from the start of the S20 schedule.

[JSCL]

Got an email this morning about a seat change for 3rd Feb, a/c changed to the ATR42 so they must be bringing it in early.

[VickersVicount]

Got an email this morning about a seat change for 3rd Feb, a/c changed to the ATR42 so they must be bringing it in early.
One was sitting at GLA with everyone fussing round it, so might be almost ready to go... Hopefully slightly less cramped and less noisy than the Saabs

[lfc84]

Got an email this morning about a seat change for 3rd Feb, a/c changed to the ATR42 so they must be bringing it in early.

​​​​​​​i concur. my itinerary shows an equipment change (mid Feb)

[BA318]

i concur. my itinerary shows an equipment change (mid Feb)

ATR takes over from 1st Feb.

[bmaviscount]

Doesn't the IOM
have a flybe LHR service at the moment
Looks like it will dissapear along with NQY and GCI from Mar

[CandyBender]

Doesn't the IOM
have a flybe LHR service at the moment
Looks like it will dissapear along with NQY and GCI from Mar

It was only ever a summer only operation during 2019 - unlike the States of Guernsey, Tynwald chose not to subsidise the IOM-LHR operation.

[lfc84]

New route: Isle of Man – Teeside from Saturday 30 May
operated by Eastern

[Tinwald]

New route: Isle of Man – Teeside from Saturday 30 May
operated by Eastern

Oh boy, can't wait.

Leeds, nah, Newcastle, nah - who wants to go there? But Teeside - genius! And at Eastern's reasonably priced fares too.

[lfc84]

easyjet manchester would be the winner, but i hear the iom don't want it

[AirportPlanner1]

Oh boy, can't wait.

Leeds, nah, Newcastle, nah - who wants to go there? But Teeside - genius! And at Eastern's reasonably priced fares too.

But surely if there is no Leeds or Newcastle then Teeside is a smart move, in the same way the Gloucestershire flights served the wider region in the absence of Bristol etc?

[Tinwald]

easyjet manchester would be the winner, but i hear the iom don't want it

One flight a day getting in to Manchester at 10pm - perfect. Itd be another shoehorn to suit Easy and not the island.

[lfc84]

One flight a day getting in to Manchester at 10pm - perfect. Itd be another shoehorn to suit Easy and not the island.


they would still take market share off flybe or perhaps grow the numbers flown on the route :-)

if the times dont suit, people would continue to use flybe

[JSCL]

Surprised they chose Teeside.

Sizeable business connections between Leeds and IOM... Teeside? No.

[Asturias56]

One flight a day getting in to Manchester at 10pm - perfect. Itd be another shoehorn to suit Easy and not the island.

Beggars can't be choosers - if you want flights at reasonable times, especially for Business users, you expect to pay for them................... but I agree - Teeside seems perverse

[virginblue]

I guess that's where they have an aircraft sitting on the ground with nothing better to do on saturdays - nothing returning to LBA from SOU on friday afternoons.

[vikingraider99]

Its not a question of why did they choose Teeside its the other way round and why did they choose IOM.

Teeside Airport has recently been rescued from a developer by the local councils and they were keen to add new routes from the airport to resuscitate it, IOM is just one of 6 routes being launched by Eastern (no doubt heavily subsidised I assume)

[Laughing Frog]

My money is on it lasting for 3weeks around TT and disappearing

[jensdad]

My money is on it lasting for 3weeks around TT and disappearing
Eastern's website says 'and the Isle of Man for the seasonal TT race weeks' so you could well be right ;)

[Laughing Frog]

They done the same with BHD flights a couple of years ago I’d be wary of booking

[flyerguy]

I think the dash 8 today will prove why it’s right for the island - just taken off to MAN with the METAR showing 35knts crosswind.....

[desk_bound]

I think the dash 8 today will prove why it’s right for the island - just taken off to MAN with the METAR showing 35knts crosswind.....

Crosswind limit Dash 8 32knots wet and dry runway, ATR 72 35knots (dry) 28knots (wet) ...... horses for courses
wind IOM 250/33/51 5-7 knot x wind component ????

[Peelpoler]

And Saab 2000 - 40 kts if we are waving our appendages around. Many a time making an approach while the others go in circles around Kelly.
Goodbye faithful Saab - you've served the Island well for many years for both companies. You will be missed!

[desk_bound]

And Saab 2000 - 40 kts if we are waving our appendages around. Many a time making an approach while the others go in circles around Kelly.
Goodbye faithful Saab - you've served the Island well for many years for both companies. You will be missed!

Well put ! Will be interesting when Logan get ATR 45’s what crosswind limit they set as I believe manufacturers is a stonking 45knots !

[flyerguy]

The ATR has an awful performance record when it was here full time last time compared to the Dash 8.

[Haven't a clue]

Can anyone tell me whether the shorter ATR42 have a higher crosswind limit than longer 72? Eastern have been operating ATR42s around the Shetlands for some time and up there wind tends to be brutal.

[SWBKCB]

Eastern have been operating ATR42s around the Shetlands for some time and up there wind tends to be brutal.

Eastern operate 72's?

[bigjim99]

Can anyone tell me whether the shorter ATR42 have a higher crosswind limit than longer 72? Eastern have been operating ATR42s around the Shetlands for some time and up there wind tends to be brutal.

Manufacturer advise 35 knots for ATR 72, 45 knots for ATR 42. That said, airlines may operate with lower limits.

[jijpc]

As a passenger on the Saab I agree it will be missed. Interestingly this evening G-LGNS operated the LCY service and was the first flight of the day to get into city airport!

With regards to the ATR42 I guess we will have to wait and see.

[BAladdy]

G-LGNT which has been operating the LCY flights for last few weeks was flown to ABZ after landing from yesterday mornings rotation. G-LGNS was then flown from ABZ yesterday afternoon just to operate today’s flights. Surely it would have been better just to leave G-LGNT at IOM for today?. Or just start using the AT4 a day earlier, especially as it was already at IOM.

[Haven't a clue]

SWBKCB said Eastern operate 72's?

My bad. Thought they were 42's, but after lengthy trawl though Eastern thread see the Bristows contract I was referring to uses 72's. Thanks for the correction.

[IOMX]

I was a passenger on the LCY service this evening on LGNS. The landing was perfect an absolute credit to the pilot given the strong winds and barely anything other planes landing. Absolutely top class.

[EMX81L]

The Saab 2000 will be about for another month as a spare and operating a couple of sectors here and there, I believe due to crew training requirements on the ATR.

[Haven't a clue]

Either the Loganair ATR is plumb unlucky or LCY ops are working against it.

May be wrong but often it lands at LCY and only manages to depart some 90 mins later. Stands 13/14 (the bus to gates) typically allocated for the morning rotation always create delays regardless of aircraft type, but this slow turnaround time seems to occur even when on stands 21-24 when no bus is required. The strong westerlies don't help - I've watched it heading south at 320kts only to return at sub 220kts; LCY I guess anticipate the early arrival and thus delay the departure ex IOM, but inevitably the afternoon rotation then returns an hour late with the inevitable extension required to get the evening flight back home. And tonights return is cancelled, not an ATR crosswind issue as the Stobart MAN and LPL for FlyBe are operating.

Thus far I've been lucky and found myself on the Saab both out and back.

A poster a while back said the introduction of the Saab to this route took a while to settle down (I must have missed that as my recollection was the Loganair aircraft had a much better reliability record the the Eastern airframe). All I can say is that as a frequent user of the LCY service I have yet to fly on the ATR and am actively picking flights operated by the Saab, But the Saab will go soon. So do I stay loyal to BA (LCY is the most convenient London airport for me) or do I move to U2 which is significantly cheaper but happily cancels if the wind looks like strengthening or French ATC so much as hint at strike action.

Be interested to hear what really is causing the delays; thus far unimpressed!

[JSCL]

It's slow. I was on a return on the ATR Tues/Weds and the thing didnt exceed 190kts for the first 25mins of flight.

Took nearly 1hr 40 mins. It's too slow versus the Saab and it can't handle the winds like the Saab. Speaking to the crew the other day, they used to know the Saab would always make it when other flights were canx. Not on the ATR.

They also had a crew trainer and trainee CC on my outbound which led to a departure delay. Apparently those that keep the route flying.. ie the gaming companies with their commitments aren't happy.

One thing I will say is that the interior is tonnes better than the Saab. They've done a good refurb.

Saab due to leave altogether ~26th March.

[lfc84]

Was cancelled last Friday evening due to winds. I think LCY was the issue on the 14th

[Haven't a clue]

Presumably the headwind component then (requiring another costly extension to airport hours)? The Stobart ATRs with a lower crosswind limit were able to land

[Asturias56]

You haven't a choice really - the SAAB's are out of production for 20 years whereas the airline industry has decided that the ATR is the way to go................. we just have to accept the consequences

[Haven't a clue]

Understood. And the current ATR operating the service was built in 1996....

[lfc84]

If only the island could support a similar BA service to that which operates to Jersey

[flyerguy]

If only the island could support a similar BA service to that which operates to Jersey

This would be ideal, you’d have to look at LHR though as easyJet have the LGW market, and with LHR comes the opportunity for connections which might make it more viable! With BA starting NQY from LHR after Flybe’s pullout maybe we can sit and hope for a direct LHR flight!

[Manx]

This would be ideal, you’d have to look at LHR though as easyJet have the LGW market, and with LHR comes the opportunity for connections which might make it more viable! With BA starting NQY from LHR after Flybe’s pullout maybe we can sit and hope for a direct LHR flight!
We don't have the weather to attract the tourists like Jersey nor the same levels of wealth amongst residents.

[Tinwald]

We don't have the weather to attract the tourists like Jersey nor the same levels of wealth amongst residents.

Fella, the money is here; they're just too tight to spend it on the rock

[Tonyq]

A more realistic aspiration would be for the airport, and the e-gamers who fund LCY, would be to pitch for a ‘real’ BA service to LCY on the E-Jet.

A much more attractive product and experience, a significant uplift in available seats, which would enhance the overall London market pricing mix, and provide a more regular and balanced service, which would compensate for the weird ‘reverse seasonality’ (fewer seats in Summer) offered by EZY.

[BAladdy]

LM cancelled 11 sectors to or from LCY In the 9 months between the beginning of May last year and the end of last month. That was a huge improvement on when T3 operated the route.
However passenger numbers on the route have steadily been declining over the last couple of years. They were down 8.8% this year on 2018. The average load factor was less than 65% across the year. The current arrangement with LM works for BACF for now, If this was to end then I think you might have a chance of seeing BACF operate a E70, however I very much doubt they would base the aircraft at IOM. Instead they would fly a morning and evening flight on weekdays with the aircraft being based at LCY.

[virginblue]

Would that work? Hardly any BACF aircraft do not overnight at LCY. While the issue with the time difference between the UK and the continent is an explanation for that, making morning services starting at the UK end somewhat impractica, it is mostly down to the lack of demand for early morning flights from LCY to most destinations. Is the IOM market that different? If not, it might be more sensible to have the aircraft overnighting at IOM instead of shuttling a lot of hot air from LCY to IOM in the mornings. The other question for me is what the future holds for the Embraer 170 at BACF. Can't we expect that BACF will have a standardized Embraer 190 fleet sooner than later? (which would not rule out bringing in another operator with an Embraer 170 just like Eastern before)

[willy wombat]

But without wishing to state the obvious, if you start the day with an IOM night stop you are pretty well committing to three IOMLCYIOM rotations a day - IOMLCYIOMLCY in the morning and again in the late afternoon/evening OR not having a morning LCYIOM OR finding some other mid day IOM???IOM rotation OR parking the aircraft in the IOM between the morning and evening LCY rotations. Would any of these make economic sense? Could well explain why the route has always been sub’d out.

[virginblue]

You are right of course if the frequency was to go down to 2x daily. The question for me is if a LCY-based aircraft would result in a business case for keeping the route or if it would simply mean the end of the route if it can no longer be operated with a smaller, IOM-based 50 seater. The flight times are probably not that big an issue, given the slightly higher speed of the jet on a short route like that. So we we would probably look at an arrival into LCY at 09:30ish instead of 08:25 right now. Not ideal, but probably still acceptable. But would there be any demand for a 06:30ish departure (instead of 09:00) from LCY to IOM?

[flyerguy]

For the next few days your looking at around 100 pax per day going IOM-LCY on 3 flights per day, LCY-IOM around 115.

if we saw Cityflyer metal on the route then it’s more suited you 2x daily E170.

We always see on these flights connections aswell to LGW/LHR, so they would have to time flights to suit both the connections and the A to B pax.