Isle of Man-2

[flyerguy]

easyJet seem to have released a load of new routes today, IOM not on there. Surely they should be looking at MAN/NCL/GLA soon even at a couple of frequency’s a week.

if Flybe go under I’d prefer to see EZY take on the MAN route rather than Loganair given there recent performance.

[JSCL]

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.

[lfc84]

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.
I heard the same

[IOMX]

Be careful what you wish for as the minute Easy Jet get on to the Manchester route its frequency will likely drop to two a day. The island needs frequent well timed routes you only have to look at Gatwick to see what happens!

Regarding London City the service since the introduction of the ATR has been poor although some of it is down to poor operations at LCY quite a few flights have been delayed out of there. I think Loganair are good operators but they do need to sort out the problems fast before people start to lose confidence. This is a vital route between the island and London and it would be a complete disaster if it were lost. The Embraer 170 would be great I don't understand why BA could not operate two rotations a day then reposition the plane to Belfast , Glasgow or Edinburgh to do a couple of rotations from those airports to LCY before returning to an evening rotation for the Isle of Man.

[desk_bound]

Easy won't be given permission to operate MAN, yet. They have been trying to get permission for years but the IOM won't let them to protect the higher frequency Flybe services. Not like it isnt on their radar, it has been for a few years.

I could be wrong but I thought the IOM was “open sky’s” so anyone can fly there if they think they can make money

[JSCL]

Correct, IOM has had an open skies policy since the 90s.

However, if I think I can make money operating flights from Gatwick to Heathrow, it doesnt mean that I can.

You still need the airport to grant you the slots to operate said routes and as the airport is Government owned, it still has that degree of control.

[Jenny Tails]

Correct, IOM has had an open skies policy since the 90s.

However, if I think I can make money operating flights from Gatwick to Heathrow, it doesnt mean that I can.

You still need the airport to grant you the slots to operate said routes and as the airport is Government owned, it still has that degree of control.

EGNS is not a coordinated airfield. Open Skies in the Isle of Man is that in the truest sense. Everyone and Anyone with a valid AOC and other documentation can set up shop on routes from there.

[BAladdy]

Regarding London City the service since the introduction of the ATR has been poor although some of it is down to poor operations at LCY quite a few flights have been delayed out of there. I think Loganair are good operators but they do need to sort out the problems fast before people start to lose confidence. This is a vital route between the island and London and it would be a complete disaster if it were lost. The Embraer 170 would be great I don't understand why BA could not operate two rotations a day then reposition the plane to Belfast , Glasgow or Edinburgh to do a couple of rotations from those airports to LCY before returning to an evening rotation for the Isle of Man.

It is a shame that LM can’t use one of there ER3’s on the route. I know that G-SAJR was previously owned by a airline called Jetmagic, who operated the aircraft between ORK and LCY. Using such a jet would result in a loss of capacity however the 3 x Daily service would be maintained. Flight times would also be faster and the journey more comfortable than the ATR.

[BACsuperVC10]

Easyjet have done LPL-IOM for some years but not at frequency that Flybe does. So if Flybe goes will Easyjet increase their LPL-IOM frequency to fill in the gaps, or Loganair or Eastern jump in ?

[RVF750]

Nobody is stupid enough to compete head to head with EZ.

Flybe have the Patient Transfer contract. That's the only reason they fly to LPL still.

[BACsuperVC10]

They do have the contract true but they also provide greater frequency than Easyjet, which is needed for LPL-IOM traffic. What a shame no more Manx Airlines !

[Tinwald]

Fella, there was a shopkeeper from Castletown with a brain the size of a planet who by a fluke ended up as the chief minister. He was handed Manx Airlines on a plate and turned it down.

[lfc84]

If Manx Airlines was so great someone would be expected to come along and re-invent it.
But those that have tried, well they have failed

[Jenny Tails]

If Manx Airlines was so great someone would be expected to come along and re-invent it.
But those that have tried, well they have failed

Manx Airlines was great. They were a great company to work and a company that many people seem to have fond memories of. Sure it wasn't perfect.

But it was a company of its time. The aviation industry of today is an almost unrecognizable landscape from 15 or 25 years ago. The 'Low Cost Revolution' happened and companies like Manx went the way of the dinosaurs. So even if their local government had purchased them I doubt they would still be around today.

In terms of other options for them, they could always follow the Aurigny model and purchase a couple of ATRs - if the local population wished to pay for the losses.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Don't forget isle Isle of Man was also a tax haven.
So demand fell once the banks were less important

[Laughing Frog]

Manx Airlines was great. They were a great company to work and a company that many people seem to have fond memories of. Sure it wasn't perfect.

But it was a company of its time. The aviation industry of today is an almost unrecognizable landscape from 15 or 25 years ago. The 'Low Cost Revolution' happened and companies like Manx went the way of the dinosaurs. So even if their local government had purchased them I doubt they would still be around today.

In terms of other options for them, they could always follow the Aurigny model and purchase a couple of ATRs - if the local population wished to pay for the losses.
it would cost cost more in hotacs on the days when it’s more than 20kts of Southerly wind and 3 spots of rain and they can’t land than it would to buy the a/c

[Manx]

Don't forget isle Isle of Man was also a tax haven.
So demand fell once the banks were less important

Its still a *ahem* 'low tax jurisdiction'

[flyerguy]

The Saab is yet again filling in for the ATR. Not sure if this is for capacity due to the weather I’ve the past few days....

[JSCL]

Saw Western Atlantic engineers at the ATR when I got in yesterday. May be tech?

Its due to stick around till March 26th anyway.

[Saabdriver1]

Always planned to be the Saab 2000 today. It'll be hanging around for another few weeks covering some flights until the ATR crew line training is complete.

West Atlantic do all of the line maintenance in IOM for the Loganair Saab 2000 and ATR. They do have routine tasks to carry out like dailies, so them appearing at the aircraft doesn't automatically mean it's tech!

[BAladdy]

Tonights flight from LCY was cancelled. Guessing the Saab went tech. Tomorrow mornings flight to LCY has been cancelled.

[Tonyq]

Don't forget isle Isle of Man was also a tax haven.
So demand fell once the banks were less important

i think you’ll find that the traffic figures over the last (say) 15 years, don’t in any way substantiate that rather foolish comment!

[JSCL]

Travel bookings for TT are down 80% since COVID kicked off - agents specialising in packages for TT looking for some assistance.

[Tonyq]

Travel bookings for TT are down 80% since COVID kicked off - agents specialising in packages for TT looking for some assistance.

Have you got a source for this?

[eye2eye5]

Bikers are understandably a pretty fatalistic bunch and are not that likely to be put off by a virus. Most book their return trips to the Island as soon as they have returned from the previous year's TT so overall numbers are unlikely to be down by any great degree.

[davidjohnson6]

News from Flybe is not good
Who else would want the hospital contract to Liverpool if everything goes wrong ? Easyjet ?

[Jenny Tails]

News from Flybe is not good
Who else would want the hospital contract to Liverpool if everything goes wrong ? Easyjet ?

Stobart will. They already have the crew and (one) aircraft based there, that will soon be two.

It's all looking very much like a Loganair/BMI situation again. Two separate companies with the same parent company.

[JSCL]

Have you got a source for this?

Quite an internal source, so difficult to state. But one of said companies affected which has multiple offices/branches has had to ask landlords for rent assistance due to an 80% drop in bookings.

[flyerguy]

Well here we go! Who do we expect to take over?

[JSCL]

Well here we go! Who do we expect to take over?

Eastern Airways. Flights to start Monday.

[Tinwald]

Eastern Airways. Flights to start Monday.

Yippee! I'll get on to my bank manager to arrange a new mortgage to pay for the tickets, yessir!

[Albert Hall]

I don't think that's true.

[revik]

I don't think that's true.
Past experience of Eastern from the Rock, post the demise of Citywing,suggests it is.

[flyerguy]

Well, nothings been announced as yet. Eastern and Loganair have announced a raft of routes. But nothing for IOM which makes me think that the meeting with Loganair had nothing to do with the collapse of Flybe, and the govt just hoped for the best.

[JSCL]

Two airlines competing to take on the routes - Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham - with a degree of Gov support/incentives.

Announcement to be made tomorrow morning pending some final phone calls and decisions this evening.

[lfc84]

Two airlines competing to take on the routes - Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham - with a degree of Gov support/incentives.

Announcement to be made tomorrow morning pending some final phone calls and decisions this evening.

Hopefully one is easyjet

[JSCL]

Hopefully one is easyjet
🤷‍♂️

easy previously have wanted nothing to do with the NHS patient transfer stuff and frequency should win... doesn't mean it will.

[flyerguy]

My bet is Loganair and Eastern

[IOMX]

I honestly don't see the fascination with Easy Jet they will only be interested in dropping in flights to suit the rest of their network and there is virtually no chance they would leave an aircraft overnight to allow for an early start. The island needs a regular well timed service that is reliable and efficient lets hope sense prevails and that's who is chosen.

[flyerguy]

If they could bring in an airline to operate the 3 routes, fantastic.

A bonus would be a resumption of Glasgow and Belfast City - Loganair I believe would be the front runners to do these 2.

[flyerguy]

In all honesty I think anything for the island at the moment would do.

[revik]

I honestly don't see the fascination with Easy Jet they will only be interested in dropping in flights to suit the rest of their network and there is virtually no chance they would leave an aircraft overnight to allow for an early start. The island needs a regular well timed service that is reliable and efficient lets hope sense prevails and that's who is chosen.

Agree completely. The Island is an afterthought in Easy's scheduling.

[flyerguy]

Do we think stobart will have a part to play?

[lfc84]

For any airline, unless they do 5 a day back and forth - any sector pairing is simply to suit them.

I'd rather have the certainty of an airline that isn't going bust as opposed to an airline that panders to 80,000 people's demand for a high frequency route but doesnt last the test of time

[rhutch28]

Think it's a choice between, ( for the Liverpool, Manchester & Birmingham flights)
1) easyJet
2) Stobart Air
3) Loganair
4) Eastern Airways

[flyerguy]

Think it's a choice between, ( for the Liverpool, Manchester & Birmingham flights)
1) easyJet
2) Stobart Air
3) Loganair
4) Eastern Airways

Have to remember that stobart air isn’t an airline. It is an ACMI charter. It would need to be under the EI banner or some other airline otherwise.

[22/04]

I can't help thinking that we should have an airline in which the UK government or the UK and Islands governing bodies has a stake operating the Islands routes. Or at least owning/leasing the aircraft like the Twotters in Scotland.

[lfc84]

Think it's a choice between, ( for the Liverpool, Manchester & Birmingham flights)
1) easyJet
2) Stobart Air
3) Loganair
4) Eastern Airways
that's like betting on every horse in the grand national

[virginblue]

Have to remember that stobart air isn’t an airline. It is an ACMI charter. It would need to be under the EI banner or some other airline otherwise.

That is not correct. Part of their business is ACMI (the E190s and the operation at IOM), but another part (flights from SEN) is/was a straightforward franchise operation run by Stobart at its own commercial risk.

[flyerguy]

Exactly, a franchise. No experience of own in house ops like entire in house.

[The96er]

That is not correct. Part of their business is ACMI (the E190s and the operation at IOM), but another part (flights from SEN) is/was a straightforward franchise operation run by Stobart at its own commercial risk.

I think their ORK EI operation is also run at their own commercial risk, but what I think is being alluded to is that they do no at present have their own booking engine/DCS system or even a public profile.

[Jenny Tails]

Exactly, a franchise. No experience of own in house ops like entire in house.

Except when they were Aer Arran...

[flyerguy]

The 3 ATRs GPO/GPN/GPP are set to go to Chorus Aviation Capital I believe along with 5 Dash 8s so unless there being leased back to stobart. I don’t see stobart being a part of the ops.

[virginblue]

Exactly, a franchise. No experience of own in house ops like entire in house.

You mean like the other Flybe franchises - Eastern Airways and Blue Islands?

Franchise = a regular airline paying another airline for the use of its (better known) brand and (more efficient) marketing infrastructure. The only problem Stobart should have is the lack of distribution channels as their "other" operation is also a franchise (Aer Lingus). They could, of course, run the flights under the Aer Lingus brand if that contract is not route-specific and/or allows domestic flying in the UK as well (which I doubt).

[vlieger]

Think it's a choice between, ( for the Liverpool, Manchester & Birmingham flights)
1) easyJet
2) Stobart Air
3) Loganair
4) Eastern Airways

Surely EasyJet’s planes are too large? Eastern doesn’t have the capacity. I don’t see many options myself.

[flyerguy]

Surely EasyJet’s planes are too large? Eastern doesn’t have the capacity. I don’t see many options myself.

My bet would be Loganair

[awwdabaaby]

Surely EasyJet’s planes are too large? Eastern doesn’t have the capacity. I don’t see many options myself.

Easyjet operate from LPL, BFS, BRS and LGW.

Think people have a misconception about the size of the airport, remember some aircraft are registered with M- which is the Manx country code as it is a self governing crown dependency

[flyerguy]

Easyjet operate from LPL, BFS, BRS and LGW.

Think people have a misconception about the size of the airport, remember some aircraft are registered with M- which is the Manx country code as it is a self governing crown dependency

Dont think Easyjet have any M- registered aircraft

[vlieger]

Easyjet operate from LPL, BFS, BRS and LGW.

Think people have a misconception about the size of the airport, remember some aircraft are registered with M- which is the Manx country code as it is a self governing crown dependency

I meant more for the hospital flights: morning flight and evening flight. A319 is overkill for that and an ATR is ideal.

[rhutch28]

My bet would be Loganair
Do Loganair have enough planes to operate the services or would it mean they have to wet lease some more?

[Islandlad]

I honestly don't see the fascination with Easy Jet they will only be interested in dropping in flights to suit the rest of their network and there is virtually no chance they would leave an aircraft overnight to allow for an early start. The island needs a regular well timed service that is reliable and efficient lets hope sense prevails and that's who is chosen.
Or put up tax and ticket prices to pay for it. Every day I see cheap flights go over my head. It will not last. With radar approach closed so much these days, who will fly here? Welcome to 2020.

[IOMX]

For those that have such a great view of Easy Jet worth noting that they are currently charging on one day one leg to Liverpool £281.99!!!!!! I appreciate its supply and demand led but I honestly think that is quite ridiculous and not at all supportive of the island. I have said it before be careful what you wish for with Easy Jet inconvenient times and sky high prices when the island is in difficulty!

[flyerguy]

Just watched an interview with the chief minister..... said they’d be no update until next week. And pretty much said there was no back up plan.

[vlieger]

Just watched an interview with the chief minister..... said they’d be no update until next week. And pretty much said there was no back up plan.

This doesn't surprise me. I can't see a replacement happening any time soon. Travel to and from the island is about to get very expensive. So much for the "free market" providing.

[JSCL]

Just watched an interview with the chief minister..... said they’d be no update until next week. And pretty much said there was no back up plan.

Interesting. It was an involved minister that told me last night that they expected to announce something this AM.

[flyerguy]

Interesting. It was an involved minister that told me last night that they expected to announce something this AM.

Yeah, if you go on Manx TV on YouTube last minute he says nothing until next week!

[flyerguy]

You only have to look at the prom to see the manx government are a bit Spanish with there pace of life

[116d]

This doesn't surprise me. I can't see a replacement happening any time soon. Travel to and from the island is about to get very expensive. So much for the "free market" providing.

I'm surprised the Manx government haven't yet used the Steam Packet (who were nationalised in 2018) to start Manannan's season of running a few weeks early to at least provide alternative options for those travelling to/from Liverpool without relying on the infrequent easyJet schedule.

I appreciate Flybe's collapse was difficult to anticipate as all the noises up until the start of this week indicated its future was safe, but from an outsider's perspective the ferry option is something the government could do to make life easier and maintain a daily transport connection to Liverpool. That said, I don't know how quickly the Steam Packet can mobilise Manannan into service, though they've managed in previous winters if Ben-my-Chree was unavailable for whatever reason.

[116d]

You only have to look at the prom to see the manx government are a bit Spanish with there pace of life

The phrase you're looking for is "traa dy liooar" (English translation: time enough). ;)

[pabely]

I'm surprised the Manx government haven't yet used the Steam Packet (who were nationalised in 2018) to start Manannan's season of running a few weeks early to at least provide alternative options for those travelling to/from Liverpool without relying on the infrequent easyJet schedule.

I appreciate Flybe's collapse was difficult to anticipate as all the noises up until the start of this week indicated its future was safe, but from an outsider's perspective the ferry option is something the government could do to make life easier and maintain a daily transport connection to Liverpool. That said, I don't know how quickly the Steam Packet can mobilise Manannan into service, though they've managed in previous winters if Ben-my-Chree was unavailable for whatever reason.
The Seacat ìs in sheduled Dry Dock for annual checks I believe.

[116d]

The Seacat ìs in sheduled Dry Dock for annual checks I believe.

If that's the case then fair enough. It would be interesting to know if it would have been pressed into service had it not been in dry dock.

Typically both Manannan and Ben-my-Chree run alongside each other for a few weeks until after Easter, then the Ben goes off for its annual overhaul mid/late-April so both vessels are in service during the TT late-May/early-June and for the rest of the summer until late-October.

[Tonyq]

At this point in time, the IOMG doesn't have much time, and doesn't seem to have too many options. So perhaps we need a short term fix, while a longer term solution is worked up.

I know that not everyone is a fan of EZY, but surely the short term answer, is for IOMG is to try to persuade easyJet to inject extra seats into the LPL market for the coming 3/4 weeks, while a more sustainable, longer term, solution is found. With the wider impact on their bookings, and taking into account their scale, surely EZY could inject 300-500 seats a day into that route, fairly easily?

No issues setting up a website, crew base, etc. They could be ready to go by Monday.

[The96er]

I know that not everyone is a fan of EZY, but surely the short term answer, is for IOMG is to try to persuade easyJet to inject extra seats into the LPL market for the coming 3/4 weeks, while a more sustainable, longer term, solution is found. With the wider impact on their bookings, and taking into account their scale, surely EZY could inject 300-500 seats a day into that route.

Why inject more seats when you can simply manage the yield to your advantage. I'm pretty sure that the ticket prices for IOM are increasing by the minute.

[Tonyq]

Why inject more seats when you can simply manage the yield to your advantage. I'm pretty sure that the ticket prices for IOM are increasing by the minute.

Because they could do both. There is significant unmet demand, right now. Many of their flights are sold out for weeks ahead. There are days between now and the end of the month, with no EZY flights, so there is a void to be filled. They might even see a chance to generate a bit of goodwill in the IOM.

[BACsuperVC10]

I can't help thinking that we should have an airline in which the UK government or the UK and Islands governing bodies has a stake operating the Islands routes. Or at least owning/leasing the aircraft like the Twotters in Scotland.

I tend to agree and other regional routes which infrastructure wise are important to keep the UK connected but may not be huge money spinners.

[IOMX]

Easy Jet are unlikely to put additional seats in its just not suited to their business model. They are only interested in dropping in schedules that allow them to fit into their other more strategically relevant routes.
If the IOMG had thought this through they would have had a contingency plan to put into place at short notice. Its one matter losing flights from Manchester to Southampton for example but there are virtually no other alternatives in the case of the Isle of Man because of the Irish sea!

One of the easiest things right now would be to persuade Loganair to do some emergency flights they have a booking system and a spare plane sat on the tarmac at Ronaldsway ( London City is currently varied between the Saab and the ATR) surely pulling together something there would be easy. A little outside of the box thinking and there could be an immediate improvement!

[BACsuperVC10]

Would operating in and out of the IOM be potentially available to a non UK airline to do IOM-LPL etc ?

[Islandlad]

Would operating in and out of the IOM be potentially available to a non UK airline to do IOM-LPL etc ?
Would you fly into an airport without an ANSP and only half an air traffic unit? I'd be checking with my insurers. I'm booked on the Ben in a few weeks so flying is not an issue.

Loganair is focusing on sorting the issues in Scotland.

[BACsuperVC10]

Would you fly into an airport without an ANSP and only half an air traffic unit? I'd be checking with my insurers. I'm booked on the Ben in a few weeks so flying is not an issue.

Loganair is focusing on sorting the issues in Scotland.

Sorry I don't know what you mean, what I wanted to know was would a foreign airline for example binter canarias , be allowed to set up a base at IOM and fly to UK airports if they wanted to ?

[JSCL]

Sorry I don't know what you mean, what I wanted to know was would a foreign airline for example binter canarias , be allowed to set up a base at IOM and fly to UK airports if they wanted to ?

In short: yes.

[22/04]

Sorry I don't know what you mean, what I wanted to know was would a foreign airline for example binter canarias , be allowed to set up a base at IOM and fly to UK airports if they wanted to ?

May be now - maybe not after December 31st

[flyerguy]

Don’t know why they would want too either, no one would really know the airline.

[BACsuperVC10]

Don’t know why they would want too either, no one would really know the airline.

It was just an example, could be anyone. Being there are so few UK based options available, maybe the IOM govt will have to look further afield.

[BACsuperVC10]

In short: yes.

Thank you.

[IOMX]

Fascinating piece reported in the examiner- 'Airline EasyJet confirmed that it consolidated some of its flights to and from the island due a downturn in demand for services. Is this true as reported or an error? Ridiculous if its the case!

[JSCL]

Fascinating piece reported in the examiner- 'Airline EasyJet confirmed that it consolidated some of its flights to and from the island due a downturn in demand for services. Is this true as reported or an error? Ridiculous if its the case!

easy have/did reduce number of Liverpool flights just recently, pre-Flybe news. They haven't added them back as yet.

[IOMX]

Well that's really interesting and surely shows what they think of the island. They reduce the number and don't put any flights back in when the island is in trouble and instead charge between £151 and £292 for a single sector. Great airline!

[Tonyq]

Well that's really interesting and surely shows what they think of the island. They reduce the number and don't put any flights back in when the island is in trouble and instead charge between £151 and £292 for a single sector. Great airline!

Yes, on Monday, they removed a number of flights to/from LPL and BRS. I'm not aware of LGW was impacted. That's largely why I suggested earlier that they ought to be in a position to put some capacity back, to get IOM through the next couple of weeks.

[eye2eye5]

I think I'm correct in saying that easyJet stated last year that they were going to reduce aircraft utilisation slightly in 2020 for operational reasons. Short routes such as LPL IOM would be obvious casualties of such a policy, although the timing of the reductions is unfortunate.

[IOMX]

I agree and was completely unaware that they had already reduced capacity to the island. Its telling that they are not putting that capacity back in as quickly as they took it out and it really shows their 'commitment' to the Isle of Man in my view. I do hope that people reflect that when there were challenging times for the Isle of Man Easyjet were charging up to £292 per one way sector for a 30 minute flight to Liverpool and around £500 for a return flight. I fully accept its the way their ticketing works based around supply and demand but in these circumstances I think its blatant profiteering and is wrong! I hope that when it all blows cover people remember what happened although I suspect many have short memories. In short disgraceful!

[pabely]

The capacity reduction was planned for months and months now. The price problem is all over the EZY network, just there has been a rush of people rebooking who were sheduled with BE. You can't rework shedules at the drop of a hat. Perhaps you should approach BA as they have slashed capacity to Milan from UK so have planes sitting around!

[IOMX]

I understand the problem is related to people booking flights who were previously booked with BE but I don't think it is morally right for Easyjet ( a supposed low cost airline) to be charging the fares they are one sector is now £331 on one day! That simply is not right and is blatant profiteering those that suggest Easyjet is the answer need to reflect on their behaviour when there are difficult times.

[JSCL]

I'd recommend anyone read Paul Quine's submission to Tynwald committee ref Openskies - http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/committee/EIPRC/Public%20Evidence/2017-10-09%20P%20Quine%20Open%20Skies%20submission%20(redacted).pdf

For things to work properly, they need to be based here and pilots who gain experience getting used to flying here. Period.

[lfc84]

I'd recommend anyone read Paul Quine's submission to Tynwald committee ref Openskies - http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/committee/EIPRC/Public%20Evidence/2017-10-09%20P%20Quine%20Open%20Skies%20submission%20(redacted).pdf

For things to work properly, they need to be based here and pilots who gain experience getting used to flying here. Period.

Written in 2017. Claims open skies has an adverse effect on frequencies. Yet ignores flybe Manchester x 4, flybe lpl x 3/4 and easyjet lpl
claims local pilots would make different decisions about whether to fly based on their local knowledge of weather.

I find that last point insensitive and irresponsible. Especially considering the manx 2 maverick who whilst not manx born and bred were living in the rock.

[BACsuperVC10]

I'd recommend anyone read Paul Quine's submission to Tynwald committee ref Openskies - http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/committee/EIPRC/Public%20Evidence/2017-10-09%20P%20Quine%20Open%20Skies%20submission%20(redacted).pdf

For things to work properly, they need to be based here and pilots who gain experience getting used to flying here. Period.

Interesting reading , I think he has a valid point

[JSCL]

Written in 2017. Claims open skies has an adverse effect on frequencies. Yet ignores flybe Manchester x 4, flybe lpl x 3/4 and easyjet lpl
claims local pilots would make different decisions about whether to fly based on their local knowledge of weather.

I find that last point insensitive and irresponsible. Especially considering the manx 2 maverick who whilst not manx born and bred were living in the rock.

Let's not talk about M2.

But what I will say about PQ - he is a true professional and has worked for Flybe for what, 11 years now I think it is? Had the pleasure of being on one of his flights recently and he did something that no away-based pilot would do, because he had the knowledge. Other aircraft diverting because of crosswinds on the main runway - RWY26 - but he landed on RWY21 where winds were more manageable. That allowed continuinty of the schedule. It's not dangerous, it just requires knowledge and experience of IOM operations.

[lfc84]

Safety comes first, rather than "local knowledge".
if that results in non locals being more cautious, then so be it

[IOMX]

EasyJet now charging £356.99 from Liverpool to isle of Man on one day! Absolutely disgraceful and totally immoral.

[lfc84]

That obviously discourages people from making new reservations whilst holding seats for the flybe rescue fare

[pabely]

Most days next week sold out but if you look a little further into future still £22.99. Everyone rebooking today no doubt. It's a computer program tried and tested way of managing fares, all airlines do the same. You try booking RYR Dublin to Bristol for Cheltenham Races. People like you stabbing at a booking engine will be noted by the booking server which will push fares up as well!

[IOMX]

I fully understand its an automatic ticketing system. I still don't get its right that they should be charging over £300 for a ticket especially when they call themselves a low cost airline!!! At a time when the island needs flight connections I just don't understand why people think an airline that reduces capacity and does this is good. And for the record I was not stabbing for the sake of it I am trying to book a flight but cannot afford £350!

[flyerguy]

Hearing that stobart crews are on standby on the Island.... any truth in this?

[lfc84]

I fully understand its an automatic ticketing system. I still don't get its right that they should be charging over £300 for a ticket especially when they call themselves a low cost airline!!! At a time when the island needs flight connections I just don't understand why people think an airline that reduces capacity and does this is good. And for the record I was not stabbing for the sake of it I am trying to book a flight but cannot afford £350!

you clearly can't read

[JSCL]

Hearing that stobart crews are on standby on the Island.... any truth in this?
Not sure if they are. But my understanding is that interested airlines dont have capacity in fleet and crew and Stobart sub-OP is an option for one of the two 'interested parties'. But these things take time.

[IOMX]

I assure you lfc84 I can read its just that I don't agree with your comment! If they really cared that much and it was important they would hold seats for a rescue rather than charging £350. There is always the chance that someone who really needs to buys the ticket because they have no choice in which case Easyjet have profiteered from a very unfortunate situation and that is what I don't think is right.

[lfc84]

I assure you lfc84 I can read its just that I don't agree with your comment! If they really cared that much and it was important they would hold seats for a rescue rather than charging £350. There is always the chance that someone who really needs to buys the ticket because they have no choice in which case Easyjet have profiteered from a very unfortunate situation and that is what I don't think is right.

If it says sold out, you aren't going to phone up for the rescue fare

[vlieger]

Hearing that stobart crews are on standby on the Island.... any truth in this?

My understanding is all of them are on standby, but not from the IOM, rather from their Southend base.

[flyerguy]

My understanding is all of them are on standby, but not from the IOM, rather from their Southend base.

Been told both bases are on standby and stobart are working to get flights back flying? Not sure how true

[vlieger]

Let's not talk about M2.

But what I will say about PQ - he is a true professional and has worked for Flybe for what, 11 years now I think it is? Had the pleasure of being on one of his flights recently and he did something that no away-based pilot would do, because he had the knowledge. Other aircraft diverting because of crosswinds on the main runway - RWY26 - but he landed on RWY21 where winds were more manageable. That allowed continuinty of the schedule. It's not dangerous, it just requires knowledge and experience of IOM operations.

Sorry, but this heroic talk is nonsense. Your airline SOP either allows you to land on 21 or it doesn’t. I’ve had both cases. The circle to land is no big deal but it’s equally understandable why some airlines don’t allow it, certainly at night.

[theexpandingman]

Been told both bases are on standby and stobart are working to get flights back flying? Not sure how true
There is indeed a full compliment of Stobart flight crew and cabin crew on the island rostered for standby until the end of the month. That may change at any time of course. Their ATR72 EIGPN is still at the airport, whereas most if not all of their fleet from Belfast and Edinburgh have been brought back to Dublin.

My best guess is that the Stobart Crew will be operating again within 2 weeks but they'll be wearing tartan.

[ECR]

Just looking at the BA Cityflyer timetable form LCY on a random couple of days and the first flight from LCY (8.50am) seem to land in IOM at 10.10am but not leave again until 12.25pm.

I wonder if there would there be time to squeeze in a quick return hop to BHD or LPL during this time? It might provide an opportunity, particularly if fares with Easyjet are high.

[flyerguy]

Just looking at the BA Cityflyer timetable form LCY on a random couple of days and the first flight from LCY (8.50am) seem to land in IOM at 10.10am but not leave again until 12.25pm.

I wonder if there would there be time to squeeze in a quick return hop to BHD or LPL during this time? It might provide an opportunity, particularly if fares with Easyjet are high.

BA don’t want the aircraft to do anymore routes while it’s on the ground.

[lfc84]

Just looking at the BA Cityflyer timetable form LCY on a random couple of days and the first flight from LCY (8.50am) seem to land in IOM at 10.10am but not leave again until 12.25pm.

I wonder if there would there be time to squeeze in a quick return hop to BHD or LPL during this time? It might provide an opportunity, particularly if fares with Easyjet are high.

no chance
Too much risk of delay

[manx crab]

no chance
Too much risk of delay

The ATR cannot run to time with the current schedule of 3 LCY rotations

[jijpc]

With regards to the London City service the timetable is being adjusted slightly from the start of the summer schedules, presumably to take account of the longer flight times on the ATR.

Hopefully Stobart will take the LPL, MAN and BHX services which they were already preparing to operate from the end of this month on behalf of Flybe. Presumably any delay is down to them having to establish a reservations system.

[flyerguy]

With regards to the London City service the timetable is being adjusted slightly from the start of the summer schedules, presumably to take account of the longer flight times on the ATR.

Hopefully Stobart will take the LPL, MAN and BHX services which they were already preparing to operate from the end of this month on behalf of Flybe. Presumably any delay is down to them having to establish a reservations system.

I think stobart trying to operate on there own right now would not be such a great idea. If they could team up with someone, say Loganair.... would be a better idea.

[ECR]

I think stobart trying to operate on there own right now would not be such a great idea. If they could team up with someone, say Loganair.... would be a better idea.
I would agree that Stobart operating under their own name would not be such a great idea at the moment.

If they could do a deal to operate under the BA Cityflyer name that would be best, but I don't think that would happen.

Operating under Aer Lingus Regional where they already have a relationship or Loganair would be much more likely. Not sure though how much of a strong brand image either of them have outside their own niche markets of Ireland and Scotland. However what they both could provide is a sales platform/booking engine, which is pretty much why they operated as a Flybe franchise.

As on outside bet I wouldn't completely rule out them operating under a Virgin brand.

[lfc84]

The ATR cannot run to time with the current schedule of 3 LCY rotations
This morning G-LRMA returned to IOM shortly after take off

Edit to add - Manx Radio reporting it as a tech issue

[JSCL]

Loganair to operate 2x Daily IOM>LPL from this Thursday.

[virginblue]

With what type of aircraft - 35 seater, 50 seater, 70 seater?

[Jenny Tails]

With what type of aircraft - 35 seater, 50 seater, 70 seater?

Twin Otter. It's all they have available until end of the month

[Saabdriver1]

I don't think that's true - the Twin Otter bit, that is.

[JSCL]

I don't think that's true - the Twin Otter bit, that is.

I'm expecting it to be the Saab or ATR given they're already here and that way they can still fulfil their obligations to BA.

[manx crab]

I'm expecting it to be the Saab or ATR given they're already here and that way they can still fulfil their obligations to BA.

I would hope the SAAB goes back on LCY and the ATR on LPL, I would think the ATR is more use for the wheelchair pax on the LPL route.

[rhutch28]

Might they use an ATR 72 from Stobart Air that Flybe was using ?

[116d]

Link to the announcement: https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-03-10/loganair-to-take-on-flybe-route-from-isle-of-man-to-liverpool/

Good news! The question is for how long is the "interim period" the article states? Also, what about MAN and BHX? I would have thought MAN would be a lucrative option given the connectivity options there, plus not everyone would fancy having to make their way between LPL and MAN on ground transport to connect to another flight.

[lfc84]

MAN and BHX - "in the next week or so"

[SWBKCB]

I would expect it's the patient transfer service that has led to LPL being prioritised.

[116d]

I would expect it's the patient transfer service that has led to LPL being prioritised.

You would be right...

Loganair takes over Liverpool route | News | (http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=54419&headline=Loganair%20takes%20over%20Liverpool%20route)

[BACsuperVC10]

I would expect it's the patient transfer service that has led to LPL being prioritised.

Plus its the islands biggest air route.

[Wycombe]

Taken from the news article linked above:

Treasury Minister Alfred Cannan told the Keys that Flybe owed the Department of Infrastructure £303,245 in unpaid landing fees.

He said he was unable to give a figure on how much was owed in air passenger duty as Customs and Excise was waiting submission of the most recent return in respect of that tax.

Mr Cannan said a Flybe Bombardier Dash aircraft with a book value of £4m had been arrested.


Did it come quietly or was it tazered and 'cuffed I wonder? :)

[116d]

To answer my own question from yesterday about the interim period of Loganair operating IOM-LPL, Loganair's website is now open for bookings but is only offering flights up until 29th March. It resolves the immediate priority of restarting patient transfers, though obviously the question remains over what happens from 30th March.

[flyerguy]

To answer my own question from yesterday about the interim period of Loganair operating IOM-LPL, Loganair's website is now open for bookings but is only offering flights up until 29th March. It resolves the immediate priority of restarting patient transfers, though obviously the question remains over what happens from 30th March.

I believe the IOM are in talks with Loganair to start Manchester and Birmingham should this happen I think they will start Liverpool on a longer term basis when the negotiations are sorted.

[jijpc]

Loganair will be using a Saab 340 on the LPL service during this interim period. Nyxair ES-NSD positioned in from Carlisle this evening to start the service tomorrow.

Whilst this solves the short term issue with regards to the government patient transfer requirements, there are not many seats available for joe public.

[JSCL]

I don't know much about the 340's operational capability. Tomorrow's weather isn't looking great, could it be off to a bad start?

[oapilot]

I don't know much about the 340's operational capability. Tomorrow's weather isn't looking great, could it be off to a bad start?

It’s coped pretty well with everything the Northern and Western Isles have thrown at it over the last 15 years so it should be ok. Cross wind limit is only slightly less than the 2000.

[3legs]

Loganair will be using a Saab 340 on the LPL service during this interim period. Nyxair ES-NSD positioned in from Carlisle this evening to start the service tomorrow.

Whilst this solves the short term issue with regards to the government patient transfer requirements, there are not many seats available for joe public.

Meanwhile Stobart's ATR72 EI-GPN sits on the IOM ready to go with a full compliment of crew. The crews are all sitting wondering what is going on. The ATR is a better aircraft for the route with more seats and the Ambilift is able to get the Wheelchair passengers on, not so sure about the lil Saab..

[gayford]

Flew IOM-LPL yesterday evening. Is was operated very professionally in 40kt winds. Quite nice to sit in large leather seats with decent legroom. Only downside was the increased engine noise allied to a very lumpy pattern at LPL. long term, we need a 60 seater on the service.

[JSCL]

Flew IOM-LPL yesterday evening. Is was operated very professionally in 40kt winds. Quite nice to sit in large leather seats with decent legroom. Only downside was the increased engine noise allied to a very lumpy pattern at LPL. long term, we need a 60 seater on the service.
How busy was it? Assume full due to PTS?

[gayford]

Not full, but apparently full going back to IOM. All the hospital attendees had gone out on the morning flight.

[flyerguy]

Carrier for the new flights to be announced today.

[JSCL]

Carrier for the new flights to be announced today.
Any idea on commencement date?

[flyerguy]

Any idea on commencement date?

says hopefully Manchester and Liverpool from the 20th.

New operator for ex-Flybe routes to be unveiled imminently | News | (http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=54507&headline=New%20operator%20for%20ex-Flybe%20routes%20to%20be%20unveiled%20imminently&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2020)

[EMX81L]

Some short term flights available from next week to LPL and MAN using a Sun-Air D328Jet.

Source: www.ettyl.im

[flyerguy]

Loganair will be operating the new MAN/LPL/BHX flights. Official schedule yet to be confirmed so it’s not in the press yet.

[ericlday]

The news that all Isle of Man TT fans were dreading yet were braced to expect has been confirmed. The Manx Government has taken the decision to cancel the event due to take place from Sunday 31st May – Friday 12th June 2020.

[lfc84]

All inbound PAX to self isolate from midnight tonight for 14 days irrespective of whether they have coronvirus symptoms or not

[pabely]

All inbound PAX to self isolate from midnight tonight for 14 days irrespective of whether they have coronvirus symptoms or not
If there are any flights at all. Single Gatwick & Dublin today.

[BACsuperVC10]

If there are any flights at all. Single Gatwick & Dublin today.

Liverpool departures / arrivals are showing two Loganair services also.

[flyerguy]

And BA cityflyer....

[flyerguy]

LCY ops going to LGW for the next couple of days. Talk of moving to LHR next week still operated by Loganair but wouldn’t be on ATR as LHR have previously denied ATR ops by Aurigny due to the approach

[JSCL]

LCY ops going to LGW for the next couple of days. Talk of moving to LHR next week still operated by Loganair but wouldn’t be on ATR as LHR have previously denied ATR ops by Aurigny due to the approach

Not sure they'll be so concerned about the ATR at the moment...

[Asturias56]

About one flight every half hour from LHR...........

[virginblue]

LCY ops going to LGW for the next couple of days. Talk of moving to LHR next week still operated by Loganair but wouldn’t be on ATR as LHR have previously denied ATR ops by Aurigny due to the approach

As per the LCY thread, no one, including residents, will be allowed to enter the rock after tomorrow, so not sure what the point of flights to/from London would be, whatever gateway used.

[lfc84]

As per the LCY thread, no one, including residents, will be allowed to enter the rock after tomorrow, so not sure what the point of flights to/from London would be, whatever gateway used.
medical and key personnel who are granted exceptions

[Haven't a clue]

Well there must be a lot of them as the London flight is still running despite the ban.

Indeed BA have just sent me an email advising that a flight I booked for early next month will be operating. The really surprising bit is that it is going to LHR. I also have a seat change, so I'm guessing the metal has changed too. Alas I won't be taking it as I'm not in he essential category and wouldn't be let back into the island...

But LHR? Be careful what you with for eh?

[JSCL]

Well there must be a lot of them as the London flight is still running despite the ban.

Indeed BA have just sent me an email advising that a flight I booked for early next month will be operating. The really surprising bit is that it is going to LHR. I also have a seat change, so I'm guessing the metal has changed too. Alas I won't be taking it as I'm not in he essential category and wouldn't be let back into the island...

But LHR? Be careful what you with for eh?

I suspect BA might run it on their own, cut the costs of a 3rd party now they have spare aircraft.

[Haven't a clue]

Alas no. BA website timetable shows it as the Loganair ATR.

At 1h40 duration. Should be an onetime arrival then!

[Haven't a clue]

On 25 March our Chief Minister said:

"There will be no commercial flights or light aircraft permitted to land at Ronaldsway Airport beyond the last scheduled flight tomorrow. The only exceptions will be for emergency medical transportation and the mail flight."

I guess the a number of "essential" personal permitted to travel decided they didn't fancy the boat and train so the London flight was allowed to carry on. Loganair continue to operate the Liverpool patient transfer service, too.

[scr1]

Loganair ATR going in to LHR would be good to see if were possible

[PAXboy]

They ca save time by landing on the Apron. :cool:

[JSCL]

Loganair flights to Manchester now showing and bookable.
6 days per week, 1 flight per day.

[Fly757X]

Loganair flights to Manchester now showing and bookable.
6 days per week, 1 flight per day.

That will be increased no doubt one the current pandemic is over and done with.

[JSCL]

That will be increased no doubt one the current pandemic is over and done with.
Probably. LM need to figure out their fleet though and what will be being used where once all this is over because if they go in at pre-pandemic levels.. they dont have capacity other than the NyxAir 340s.

edit: Looks like the new flight is on an E145 and the Liverpool flights are changing to the E145 too.

[inOban]

May be entirely trivial, but there's a flight from Edinburgh shortly, but the return flight is cancelled.

[jijpc]

E145 G-RJXH is en route from EDI but it looks like it might be a positioning flight so that it is on the island for operations next week as outlined.

ATR42 G-LMRA has gone to to Heathrow this evening on behalf of BA CityFlyer as BA3287.

[Saabdriver1]

The 145 will be operating the IOM-LPL and IOM-MAN services for the next month. Aircraft and crew will swap out every afternoon over Manchester with the single remaining ABZ-MAN service.


ATR looks like it will be operating IOM-LHR for as long as LCY is closed.

[BAladdy]

ATR looks like it will be operating IOM-LHR for as long as LCY is closed.
Flights to LHR are planned to operate 6 x weekly until 1st May.

31st March to 5th April & 20th April to 1st May

BA3287 IOM 16:30 LHR 18:10 x67
BA3287 IOM 18:00 LHR 19:30 7

BA3288 LHR 18:40 IOM 20:00 x67
BA3288 LHR 20:00 IOM 21:20 7

6th to 12th April

BA3285 IOM 12:25 LHR 14:00 5
BA3285 IOM 13:55 LHR 15:30 7
BA3287 IOM 16:30 LHR 18:10 x567

BA3286 LHR 14:30 IOM 15:50 5
BA3286 LHR 16:00 IOM 17:20 7
BA3288 LHR 18:40 IOM 20:00 x567

13th to 19th April

BA3285 IOM 12:25 LHR 14:00 1
BA3287 IOM 16:30 LHR 18:10 x167
BA3287 IOM 18:00 LHR 10:30 7

BA3286 LHR 14:30 IOM 15:50 1
BA3288 LHR 18:40 IOM 20:00 x167
BA3288 LHR 20:00 IOM 21:20 7

[pabely]

A) egns b) from: 20/04/01 10:08 c) to: 20/04/09 20:15e) isle of man cta/ctr/atz active during the following periods
mon-fri 0500-0830 and 1300-2015
sat - not active
sun - 1300-2030

[flyerguy]

BA Cityflyer Ops returning to LCY 6x Weekly from 1st June

[flyerguy]

Looks like EZY have taken LPL-IOM-LPL off sale until 1st August unless there fully booked right through

[lfc84]

That falls in line with the majority of their network

[flyerguy]

That falls in line with the majority of their network

Was originally meant to be in the first lot of resumption’s on the 15th June

[allan1987]

Looks like EZY have taken LPL-IOM-LPL off sale until 1st August unless there fully booked right through

seems that BFS-IOM is taken off sale until 4th Sep.
Says fully booked until then.

[flyerguy]

seems that BFS-IOM is taken off sale until 4th Sep.
Says fully booked until then.

and LGW 21st July

[lfc84]

It was reported by SeanM1997 twitter that BACF will drop the LCY-IOM route from 13 September.

[CandyBender]

Morning & afternoon flights are cancelled, the late is still running, as it had been throughout the pandemic - probably more to do with borders remaining closed & no easing of travel restrictions announced.

[flyerguy]

Morning & afternoon flights are cancelled, the late is still running, as it had been throughout the pandemic - probably more to do with borders remaining closed & no easing of travel restrictions announced.

The evening one is also not for sale from September

[3legs]

BA CityFlyer could operate it themselves from LCY with an E170.? One thought.

Just had a look at Loganair's Website to see if its possible to book a flight with them to LCY but not yet..

See what comes as and when normal ops resume. Theres still a lot to iron out with the LPL,MAN and BHX routes. Main contenders are Stobart and Loganair.

[JSCL]

BA CityFlyer could operate it themselves from LCY with an E170.? One thought.

Just had a look at Loganair's Website to see if its possible to book a flight with them to LCY but not yet..

See what comes as and when normal ops resume. Theres still a lot to iron out with the LPL,MAN and BHX routes. Main contenders are Stobart and Loganair.

I'm also told that Loganair want to start Southampton route. But it really does depend what happens with Stobart too.

[manx crab]

I'm also told that Loganair want to start Southampton route. But it really does depend what happens with Stobart too.

Why?, SOU has always been marginal at best, even in the times of plenty.

Seems a lifetime ago now, but wasn't the story that BA were not particularly happy over the ATR on the LCY route for several reasons , certainly it struggled to keep the schedule for the brief period it operated the normal timetable

[lfc84]

"Airbridge" between GCI and IOM to be setup using Aurigny on Wednesdays and Sundays

[virginblue]

Maybe I am a little bit daft, but: To be used by whom exaclty? Manx(wo)men hitting the beaches at Guernsey instead of Mallorca and Ibiza?

[Asturias56]

"To be used by whom exactly?"

the shifty folk in "financial services" moving between tax havens of course without landing in the UK and using up their days

[virginblue]

Ok, apparently I am daft indeed.

I thought this kind of business was nowadays done from behind a computer screen with electronic trading and digital filings, but it seems there are still gentlemen who travel around with a nondescript suitcase full of cash if the business warrants 200 or so seats per week between those two off-shore paradises.

[Alteagod]

It does on the face of it appear to be the most bonkers of pairings but best of luck to them.

[JSCL]

It does on the face of it appear to be the most bonkers of pairings but best of luck to them.

I don't think it does, but it does seem bonkers for an ATR72 or their E jet. The people on both Islands are clearly itching to get away - somewhere, anywhere. Only if you live on an Island can you appreciate that. I'm not convinced they'll fill them that much but there will certainly be some demand if it's the only place they can travel till the end of August without quarantine restrictions on return.

But hey, Aurigny are the experts are losing cash so it's right up their street.

[M-JCS]

"To be used by whom exactly?"

the shifty folk in "financial services" moving between tax havens of course without landing in the UK and using up their days
All of which assumes there is still a financial services industry on the Isle of Man. If there is, London or Jersey would be much more logical destinations.

[pabely]

Complete waste of time and effort. If some financial services bods need to commute, hire a charter at a more useful timed shedule.

[Rutan16]

It not completely bonkers Manchester used to have quite a bit of transit traffic between the bailiwicks and mæn (vannin)

[JSCL]

It not completely bonkers Manchester used to have quite a bit of transit traffic between the bailiwicks and mæn (vannin)

Maybe back in the pre-COVID world and some time before it. None of the financial guys will permit business travel in the next 6-12 months.

[BA318]

Maybe back in the pre-COVID world and some time before it. None of the financial guys will permit business travel in the next 6-12 months.

The death of business travel is far too over stated. I’ve still been commuting weekly within Europe and flights are busy. Business class has been completely full on my four flights a week and even in Economy most of the passengers seem to be more businessmen than anything else (assuming as they are smartly dressed and working on laptops). Also quite a few of us were exempt from the quarantine regulations so they must be on some kind of business travel.

[JSCL]

The death of business travel is far too over stated. I’ve still been commuting weekly within Europe and flights are busy. Business class has been completely full on my four flights a week and even in Economy most of the passengers seem to be more businessmen than anything else (assuming as they are smartly dressed and working on laptops). Also quite a few of us were exempt from the quarantine regulations so they must be on some kind of business travel.

Maybe for the UK. But Island-wide in the IOM, there seems to be widespread clamping down on business travel. Slightly different in that any neccessary travel has to happen by air - being an Island and all - but all of the banks have shred business travel for the next 12 months here.

[EMX81L]

Great to see the effort the IOM and GCI Governments have put in to get the 'air bridge' established, given that both islands have has no further COVID-19 cases for sometime now, with local elimination all but confirmed. For people wanting a few days off each island, after climbing the walls for the last few months, this is a great idea to get some money in some tills at either end of the bridge. Local sports teams are up for some fixtures etc. All of this with no 14 day isolation on return, which is the big plus. With locals soon to be given the opportunity to travel in 'level 4' of the governments plan, albeit with a 14 day isolation on return, hopefully the uptake to GCI will be good. Local travel agents are selling packages. Good luck to all, let's give it a chance. Nothing to do with banks etc, it's about giving each island the chance to enjoy what ever is going to be left of the summer, with limited risk to residents.

[Tonyq]

Great to see the effort the IOM and GCI Governments have put in to get the 'air bridge' established, given that both islands have has no further COVID-19 cases for sometime now, with local elimination all but confirmed. For people wanting a few days off each island, after climbing the walls for the last few months, this is a great idea to get some money in some tills at either end of the bridge. Local sports teams are up for some fixtures etc. All of this with no 14 day isolation on return, which is the big plus. With locals soon to be given the opportunity to travel in 'level 4' of the governments plan, albeit with a 14 day isolation on return, hopefully the uptake to GCI will be good. Local travel agents are selling packages. Good luck to all, let's give it a chance. Nothing to do with banks etc, it's about giving each island the chance to enjoy what ever is going to be left of the summer, with limited risk to residents.

You are spot-on with the thinking and rationale behind this effort, where as earlier posters have, with respect, rather missed the point. There may be a few business travelers, but the main target is short break leisure, for a six week period. We are talking around 1400 seats being offered, in each direction, over that planned six week window, with a target market of approx. 85,000 at each end. As I write this, travel bookings in the UK have gone through the roof today. People in the IOM and Guernsey will be looking for a break too, but, as things stand passing through the UK will bring challenges. Hotels at both ends are offering very good deals into their 'staycation' markets, as they are desperate for heads on beds. If the fares are right, this should do OK.

[pabely]

Try booking, go to Visitiom.com or the equlivent visit Guernsey or a travel agent or even airline web site, nothing!

[JSCL]

Try booking, go to Visitiom.com or the equlivent visit Guernsey or a travel agent or even airline web site, nothing!
Won't be on sale till at least Tues/Weds as I understand.

Edit: Looks like 'registration' from tomorrow https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/registration-for-guernsey-flights-available-from-tomorrow/

[flyerguy]

Have the IOM Government and airlines come to an agreement about permanent solutions to flights from the IOM. With us quickly approaching winter, and by then the borders should be open. The island could be left with just easyJet operating a skeleton schedule and Loganair pretty much the same with the Aer Lingus Dublin.

I believe they were talking to Loganair about reinstating a full service to MAN/LPL/BHX?

[3legs]

Have the IOM Government and airlines come to an agreement about permanent solutions to flights from the IOM. With us quickly approaching winter, and by then the borders should be open. The island could be left with just easyJet operating a skeleton schedule and Loganair pretty much the same with the Aer Lingus Dublin.

I believe they were talking to Loganair about reinstating a full service to MAN/LPL/BHX?

The IOM Gov are still in the process of making a decision. It's not just Loganair that are pitching for the routes, I believe Stobart are in the running with a potential third airline. Stobart are best placed to do it on the basis they have local staff living there ready and waiting.

[SWBKCB]

Stobart are best placed to do it on the basis they have local staff living there ready and waiting.

But no booking system etc of their own

[flyerguy]

Logan, in my option are the ones best suited, their already a well established airline.

They've been doing FAM flights with BXA (ATR) on both the IOM-MAN/LPL.

They offer connections with KLM, Qatar, Emirates, BA, Turkish and others. (https://www.loganair.co.uk/contact-us/travel-trade-support/our-airline-partners/)

They also boast a very good public opinion, particularly in the U.K.

[pabely]

Tuesday 21st July seems to be first EZY Gatwick, will it happen then?

[lfc84]

Tuesday 21st July seems to be first EZY Gatwick, will it happen then?
It has been cancelled

[pabely]

It has been cancelled
Not according to their booking engine. IOM moves from L5 to L4 restictions which allow greater travel fredom for IOM citizens (only) to travel.

[lfc84]

Not according to their booking engine. IOM moves from L5 to L4 restictions which allow greater travel fredom for IOM citizens (only) to travel.
Its cancelled

[Saabdriver1]

Loganair also has crews based and resident in IOM. A fine bunch they are too.

[JSCL]

It's also been publicised now that Stobart Group aren't prepared to bankroll any Stobart Air expansion in to IOM after bailing it out, so they're going to have to pull a pot of gold out of somewhere.

The biggest matter is the patient transfer contract. This is up for tender imminently and the reality is, whoever takes that on will ultimately end up on the routes.

[IOMX]

Have not heard anymore news about the BACF service into London City. The last news was it was suspended from 13th September surely there needs to be at least a twice daily flight into either London City or Heathrow. It was deemed so important that this route was flying every day except Saturday all throughout March, April, May and June so something needs to be done to secure it back again.

[manx crab]

Have not heard anymore news about the BACF service into London City. The last news was it was suspended from 13th September surely there needs to be at least a twice daily flight into either London City or Heathrow. It was deemed so important that this route was flying every day except Saturday all throughout March, April, May and June so something needs to be done to secure it back again.

I have around half a dozen flights booked for LCY flights for October, November, and December. Not had any notifications that any are cancelled although have had for various connecting flights.

I wonder if September is when the Loganair contract was due for renewal and BA do not want to commit to anything until the travel situation becomes clear. Time will tell I guess.

[JSCL]

BA are speaking to alternative operators for the route and ideally looking for it to originate in London rather than the IOM from what I'm aware.

[Saabdriver1]

I know this is a rumour network and the clue is in the name. But I really do wish people here would consider those whose livelihoods and jobs depend on this sort of thing would not post unfounded rubbish which simply isn’t true by way of starting a new rumour.

[JSCL]

I know this is a rumour network and the clue is in the name. But I really do wish people here would consider those whose livelihoods and jobs depend on this sort of thing would not post unfounded rubbish which simply isn’t true by way of starting a new rumour.
Tell yourself what you want, it is true.

[pabely]

Its cancelled
Do you agree 1st August then and double daily from 21st August?

[tictack67]

It was mentioned earlier on IOM or BACF thread that a large corporate user,a game company,w finding, support or commitment. I believe this led to BACF withdrawl


BA are speaking to alternative operators for the route and ideally looking for it to originate in London rather than the IOM from what I'm aware.

[lfc84]

Do you agree 1st August then and double daily from 21st August?
I was referring to the flight on the 21st July.

[Jerbourg]

The demand for the Aurigny GCI-IOM flights has been high, so much so that the Embraer 195 has replaced the ATR on many flights & on at least one day there will be two flights.
Good news for all involved.

[desk_bound]

It does beg the question what do donkeys and crabs have in common? Or are they just stuck between a Rock and a hard place ?

Good call to whoever thought of that air bridge 👍

[lfc84]

I think there's a market for easyjet to operate direct flights to Spain in normal times.

If an airbirdge could be agreed to somewhere warmer than Guernsey it would do really well (probably not likely to happen in the current circumstances)

[pabely]

Isn't that what Freedom travel used to offer with BACF metal? BACF were happy to offer equipment at weekends when they were quiet, I doubt EZY would be forthcoming, it just is not their business model.

[lfc84]

Isn't that what Freedom travel used to offer with BACF metal? BACF were happy to offer equipment at weekends when they were quiet, I doubt EZY would be forthcoming, it just is not their business model.
The stuff with BACF was package hols and although Freedim Travl were willing to sell flight only I was quoted 700 return per adult and it wasn't advertised as such

[IOMX]

BA are speaking to alternative operators for the route and ideally looking for it to originate in London rather than the IOM from what I'm aware.
In my opinion this is an extremely important service to the island and even a twice a day service originating from London City would be ok as long as it made for a sensible return day visit , for example leaving the island around 8am and returning around 7pm. Many years ago Jersey European used to operate a service from London City which flew into Ronaldsway and then went on to Belfast City I wonder why this could not be reconsidered? It would serve two purposes in that it would provide a link into central London and also offer islanders a regular service to Belfast City which was lost when Citywing went into administration. If the turnaround time was kept to a minimum and BACF operated it on an Embraer Jet ( I think they have announced flying into Belfast City from London City) I suspect it could work.

[Alteagod]

Agree an important life line was lost between IOM and Northern Ireland

[RVF750]

The BHD-IOM-LCY was a way of Jack Walker putting one across the bows of Manx for stealing the SOU-JER from under their noses. By all accounts Manx chucked a high throwaway bid in and didn't expect to win.
I doubt the IOM-LCY part ever made a profit but but it did steal some cream from the IOM-LHR that hurt.
If the Island ever wants to maintain a decent frequency for business travel, they really are going to have to start their own airline. The damage of Open Skies was foretold and has come to pass.

[lfc84]

It's 2020 not 1998

[IOMX]

It's 2020 not 1998
Well somebody needs to take action to preserve at least a twice daily service into central London . It’s beyond comprehension that there will only be one or at best two flights to London Gatwick on EasyJet at times totally unsuitable for business .

Accepting that the situation post covid will be challenging hence the reason why a sensible outcome could be a morning and evening flight . If you look at the data as published the load factors were around 70% at a three times a day service and knowing the ticket price I think it had a reasonable yield .

If the Mayor of Teesside can step in to secure a regular flight from Teeside to London City then surely someone can sort this situation out .

[lfc84]

If its commercially viable someone will do it. Otherwise a solution is to increase the IOM population and economic activity to be the same as Jersey and then the residents will get full BA mainline and the associated frequencies to a variety of London airports

[Jenny Tails]

The market has gone. EZY twice a day to LGW won't look so bad in 12 months time.

[IOMX]

[QUOTE=Jenny Tails;10836386]The market has gone. EZY twice a day to LGW won't look so bad in 12 months time.[/QUOTE

The flight times of EasyJet and the reliability leave a lot to be desired . If you don’t mind getting back to central London around midnight then it’s fine but I don’t think that is acceptable for business travel . And the island is going to need business as it starts to rebuild the economy . A service into central London is critical to the island be it Heathrow or London City indeed the fact that this route operated every day except Saturdays since March shows how it important it is . I don’t think I saw EasyJet offering to do this !

I don’t agree the market is gone when you look at some of the routes that are going back in it needs some sensible marketing .

[M-JCS]

[QUOTE=Jenny Tails;10836386]The market has gone. EZY twice a day to LGW won't look so bad in 12 months time.[/QUOTE

The flight times of EasyJet and the reliability leave a lot to be desired . If you don’t mind getting back to central London around midnight then it’s fine but I don’t think that is acceptable for business travel . And the island is going to need business as it starts to rebuild the economy . A service into central London is critical to the island be it Heathrow or London City indeed the fact that this route operated every day except Saturdays since March shows how it important it is . I don’t think I saw EasyJet offering to do this !

I don’t agree the market is gone when you look at some of the routes that are going back in it needs some sensible marketing .

On the other hand, London City Airport are involved, and they (as well as their former sibling LGW) have made it very clear in the past that they don't like little aircraft on their turf. Their solution? Raise airport fees to the point of making 50 seat operations untenable. Add to that BA and their attempt to make LCY 'theirs' for their own larger aircraft and the problems become abundantly clear; especially for a population unwilling to pay more than LCC fares for full service routes.

[BA318]

[QUOTE=IOMX;10836392]

On the other hand, London City Airport are involved, and they (as well as their former sibling LGW) have made it very clear in the past that they don't like little aircraft on their turf. Their solution? Raise airport fees to the point of making 50 seat operations untenable. Add to that BA and their attempt to make LCY 'theirs' for their own larger aircraft and the problems become abundantly clear; especially for a population unwilling to pay more than LCC fares for full service routes.

They seemed to change their tune on that recently and actively worked to attract the Loganair Dundee route which is operated with the ATR42. I’d also imagine now any flights are better than none.

[IOMX]

Eastern also going into London City with a SAAB 50 seater I think from Teeside . This surely shows that deals can be done and that in the current aviation world all things are negotiable. Where there is a will there is a way it requires someone to get hold of it .

Also prior to lockdown other operators going in there with smaller aircraft including Blue Islands .

[pabely]

Easyjet LGW looks to have been pushed back to 1st Sept but double daily from 7th.

[IOMX]

Easyjet LGW looks to have been pushed back to 1st Sept but double daily from 7th.

From October they only have one flight on a Tuesday and a Wednesday all the way through until at least January. In addition the first flight off the island will not be until 09.55 getting into Gatwick at 11.10 so no chance of getting into central London until nearly 1.00pm . Similarly the evening flight which has been notorious for being late leaves the island at 21.05 and gets back to Gatwick at 22.20 so an arrival time for those in central London of about midnight !

Someone needs to sort the London situation out urgently and get the London City service restored quickly otherwise this is looking like a total disaster .

[lfc84]

I've just booked London City next June on ba.com

[SeanM1997]

I've just booked London City next June on ba.com

Route seems to be returning back from Tuesday 8 June 2021 - but that is so far away that I would say subject to change. It is still unclear why BA are suspending the route between September and June

[IOMX]

Route seems to be returning back from Tuesday 8 June 2021 - but that is so far away that I would say subject to change. It is still unclear why BA are suspending the route between September and June

Those flights are most likely just in for TT. The island needs a strong connection to central London to enable adequate business travel and for friends and family to connect ( once the borders are open) and a few flights in June is in no way sufficient. As I keep saying urgent action is required by someone this is a critical route for the island and must not be left without a clear plan of action.

[lfc84]

Those flights are most likely just in for TT. The island needs a strong connection to central London to enable adequate business travel and for friends and family to connect ( once the borders are open) and a few flights in June is in no way sufficient. As I keep saying urgent action is required by someone this is a critical route for the island and must not be left without a clear plan of action.
I've just booked end of June. TT is finished by then. TT is Saturday 29th May - Friday 11th June 2021

[IOMX]

I have just looked and you cannot book beyond 5th July so currently its a June only service. This needs sorting!

[SWBKCB]

The island needs a strong connection to central London to enable adequate business travel and for friends and family to connect

If the island wants business level type service it needs to pay for it - either through fares or tax support.

[IOMX]

If the island wants business level type service it needs to pay for it - either through fares or tax support.

That's exactly the way its been with the BA service! The return fares were about £150 which I think is reasonable for a well timed reliable regular service especially when compared to the cost of rail travel in the UK. People have been prepared to pay for it because over 5000 people on average have it used per month leading to average load factors of 70-80%.

[lfc84]

I've just booked London City next June on ba.com
I just did a dummy booking, same date. I got this error: We’re sorry but we can’t find any flights matching your search

But my reservation in MMB is still ok

[SWBKCB]

People have been prepared to pay for it because over 5000 people on average have it used per month leading to average load factors of 70-80%.

Seems like BACF don't agree.

[IOMX]

[QUOTE=SWBKCB;10839825]Seems like BACF don't agree.[/QUOTE

Indeed but those are indisputable facts hence why I suggest someone intervenes to try and help the situation and ensure the island has an early morning and evening flight into central London. It’s not in anyone’s interest to not have it !

[CandyBender]

A clue to the future??? https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/chief-minister-against-idea-of-national-airline/

[IOMX]

For those that think EasyJet is the answer for the Isle of Man worth reflecting on a few facts


1) This is an airline who is not intending flying to/from the island until at least 1st September. To quote specifically a spoke person for EasyJet said ' Due to travel restrictions in place for flights to the Isle of Man our flying programme to and from the island continues to be under review'. This is interesting especially when Loganair are prepared to travel to and from Liverpool and Manchester in the current circumstances.

2) EasyJet were very happy to charge islanders up to £700 for a return flight to Liverpool when there was restricted availability following the collapse of Flybe.

3) Flight timings to and from London are scheduled to make use of additional pilot hours after or before more lucrative flights so the Isle of Man scheduled timings are very poor.

Whilst believe they have some role to play to connect people ( likely mostly holidaymakers) who want to travel on to Europe they are by no means the answer for the island now or in the future. An alternative plan to provide greater connectivity for the island and in particular London is urgently needed.

[lfc84]

Also you missed out...

They offered a rescue fare when flybe collapsed
They have a generous hand baggage allowance
Flight time and price clearly suit those who use it
Better comfort on board
Flight club membership
They have an app that works

[IOMX]

Comfort on a smaller plane is far superior than the Airbus 318 those who have been “squashed “ in the middle of a three seat bank would I am sure attest to that . And the baggage situation on their flights is one of the worst ever in my experience!
I have no idea how many rescue fares they provided but I still cannot believe anyone will defend charging £700 return to Liverpool !
As I said they have a role to play for those who want it but if we think two flights a day to London and on some days only one then I think that’s misguided especially when 5000 on average a month were prepared to use the London City BA service .

[pabely]

For those that think EasyJet is the answer for the Isle of Man worth reflecting on a few facts


1) This is an airline who is not intending flying to/from the island until at least 1st September. To quote specifically a spoke person for EasyJet said ' Due to travel restrictions in place for flights to the Isle of Man our flying programme to and from the island continues to be under review'. This is interesting especially when Loganair are prepared to travel to and from Liverpool and Manchester in the current circumstances.

2) EasyJet were very happy to charge islanders up to £700 for a return flight to Liverpool when there was restricted availability following the collapse of Flybe.

3) Flight timings to and from London are scheduled to make use of additional pilot hours after or before more lucrative flights so the Isle of Man scheduled timings are very poor.

Whilst believe they have some role to play to connect people ( likely mostly holidaymakers) who want to travel on to Europe they are by no means the answer for the island now or in the future. An alternative plan to provide greater connectivity for the island and in particular London is urgently needed.

1) Would Loganair have stepped in without the patient transfer contract?
2) The booking engine saw a sudden spike in demand once Flybe collapsed, computer booking systems all over the world use similar price algorithms to automatically adjust prices on demand.
3) I think the planes are not always Gatwick based so do a leg before hand. You think they should dedicate a 189 seat plane for a 7AM arrival and use one of those prized rush hour slots at Gatwick? Perhaps IOM Gov should approach EZY to overnight in IOM, do an early LGW and back then perhaps BFS, LUT or BRS before the evening LGW, it would be good to get some local engineers doing overnight line maintenance on an Airbus and base some crew...........ain't gonna happen.

The Dash-8 was the right plane with the wrong operator. I don't know the answer and I doubt any airline would be totally interested at the moment with bigger problems around for them at the moment.

[pabely]

Comfort on a smaller plane is far superior than the Airbus 318 those who have been “squashed “ in the middle of a three seat bank would I am sure attest to that .
Easyjet have never had A318s, are you thinking of BAs one which does (pre CV-19) LCY > NYC, now that has very nice seats and cabin space, oops about £4500 one way fare though!

[IOMX]

I agree with your points exactly no they will never overnight a plane as you say it’s never going to happen hence why I say they are not the answer . They have some role but the island needs more than just this especially to London .

At least Loganair did step in help or no help and added in Manchester too . I am certain EasyJet would not have helped out in those difficult times at all and left the Isle of Man stranded .

And I am more than familiar with airline algorithms but it still does not make it right . I cannot believe it’s not possible to intervene in exceptional circumstances someone somewhere at EasyJet would have known what was happening looked the other way and took no action it was totally wrong !