F15/18s over London.

[Speed of Sound]

About 20 miutes ago two F15/18 flew very fast and low (<1000ft) across London heading in an Easterly direction. Does anyone know what they were doing?

SoS

[Itsonyatv]

Probably inbound to Farnborough for the show. F15 and F18 are scheduled to be in the static.:)

[Bluebeard]

Am not ATC but..had a report from my brother who works in the City to the effect that the aircraft we flying sufficiently low as to be appear to be making efforts to avoid some of the taller buildings :eek:

Obviously looks can be deceiving but they do seem to have been v. low indeed, anyobdy ATCOs care to comment (see also a similar thread on reporting points).

[The Nr Fairy]

"Easterly over London", "inbound to Farnborough".

So it's a case of duff Yank nav, or the controller they were talking to having an off day, then ?

[Speed of Sound]

They were probably too low to affect the final approach to Heathrow, but were certainly right across the final approch to London City. At the time the approach to London City was from the west as a 142 had just turned on to final about five minutes beforehand.

In the light of what happened two weeks ago in Germany, and in the absence of any tactical reason for them being there I'd rather they took some other route.

john x

[left outer, right inner]

I was in farnborough at the time, and they were in the circuit for a while buzzing around, and then landed i think ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Speed of sound wrote: "In the light of what happened two weeks ago in Germany, and in the absence of any tactical reason for them being there I'd rather they took some other route. "

That's a remarkable statement to make, particularly the first few words. Perhaps you'd better enlighten us as to what you really mean. Fast jets low over London are not unusual - a few weeks ago the Red Arrows plus assorted jest flew at low level down the Mall but I don't recall anyone complaining....

[Spitoon]

Behind you 100% HD.

SOS - would you care to elaborate on your comments and your competence to draw your conlusions?

[Speed of Sound]

The only point I was trying to make was that if these two a/c were just 'sightseeing' I'd rather they didn't do it over central London.

SoS

[Cuddles]

Class A airspace?

Could prove to be a costly error if no one knew they were there.

Almost certainly they were en route not above a thousand feet or similar so as not to compromise the commercial traffic.

Almost certainly SVFR, and if LC had already filled up its stands, there wouldn't be a problem (Particularly if they were talking to Thames Radar)

95% of the above is guesswork. Do I win?

[MarkD]

HD

the point about the Arrows etc. is that everyone knew from the papers about the flypast, as it had been fairly extensively announced what route, types, times etc.

The F-18s, if such they were, forgot to issue the Press Release.

The US may be used to and be reassured by 16s on CAP overhead football games but not yet so true in Europe.

[tired]

MarkD - agree 100%. HD, for once you're missing the point.

[eyeinthesky]

What's a 142?:D

Get a life, guys! From what I see, two fast jets did a fly-by of London. So what if it wasn't announced in advance and televised? They obviously had the permission of ATC and would naturally have been complying with minimum height rules. Just enjoy the show and don't look for controversy where there isn't any.;)

[MarkD]

eyeinthesky

146-200 I suspect, given that it was LCY.

[PA7]

SOS

USAF C17 observed flying low over Camberley today does this mean that we are being invaded by the Yanks; well I'm off to my bunker:( :eek:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Eyeinthesky.. Hear hear! I agree 100%. There are a few busybodies on here who simply don't know what goes on. If they had the vaguest idea of some things that go on above the skies of London which are never publicised they'd have a blue fit!!

[canberra]

as far as im aware no fighters(or fast jets as the raf call them) should be below 2000' over london, or indeed any built up area. it wouldnt be the first time that the yanks have got it wrong.

[Speed of Sound]

Fighter jets flying fast, close and low in Class A airspace, under SVFR and with ATC permission will:

a) increase the possibility of an accident?

b) decrease the possibility of an accident?

c) have no effect on the possibility of an accident?

Speed of Sound

[Bright-Ling]

MMMm........HD you are, as always right on the money.

Look at the oher alternatives for going from East of London to Farnborough...

1. Go over the top at FL180+
2. Go via LAM/Stapleford/Elstree/Denham/Waltham/Blackbushe at 2.4 or below
3. Go via BIG/OCK at 2.4 or below
4. Stay in Controlled airspace at legally accepted levels?

MMMmm - me thinks that answer 4 works best!!

All weekends are spent with Single Squirrel/R22 etc legally overflying central London, mainly on pleasure flights. Concorde returned the other day with an engine out and (I AM GUESSING HERE) landed on 27R as the southern runway is still too bumpy. Did that fly over central London/populated areas?? It probably did. Why?? Because it may have been safer to do so for the aircraft.

We can't elliminate EVERY risk in flying. SIMPLE AS THAT.

SO, back to the original matter........

Capital's GA7 sits over the West End daily at 1500 and often follows the M40 to Northolt. PPL's fly over London LEGALLY at 1500 and you think that is more dangerous than F18's??

Lets not get too excited here people. As mentioned, it was legal for Liz a few weeks back, with a million people underneath!

It was controlled, it was legal - 'nuff said.

[Speed of Sound]

It was controlled, it was legal - 'nuff said.

But was it necessary?

SoS

[eyeinthesky]

Speed of Sound:

A 777, with landing flap and gear down, will be flying over the western part of London at 1500 ft decreasing, and at any stage could lose an engine (or two). Do you want to stop that as well? That would of course be possible, but only with the slight inconvenience of moving the busiest international airport in the world to somewhere where aircraft on the approach do not have to fly over a built up area. I can see that getting planning approval fairly rapidly!

With regard to the F18/F15s, don't forget that they have two engines, and probably the only reason you noticed them was because they make a racket and are unusual. As has been said, traffic reporting aircraft and police helicopters regularly float about over the capital at 1500' (or less in the case of the helis) and nobody gives them a second glance because they are commonplace. Most people glance up, however, when Concorde goes over because it is uncommon and makes a racket.

If, as HD says, you could have a look at a radar screen and see how many aircraft are above London at any one time (from surface to 40000 ft plus), many of them on crossing or reciprocal tracks and separated by only 1000 ft vertically whilst closing at up to 1200mph then you would probably decide to work somewhere else!! Trouble is, there are very few places in the UK or your native Ireland which are not regularly overflown by mechanical contraptions which just might decide to stop working at any time.

A non-event, really, in the grand scheme of things:cool:

[MarkD]

Post 9-11, a 777 [which looks damn like a 767 or 757 to someone who only saw the CNN pix] would cause a nervous moment for a few folk.

However, there is no mistaking military jets *unannounced* in case you missed the flypast point the first time. Everyone thinks - oh sh!t, what's wrong - especially in the vicinity of the tallest building in London.

My point, which I know is not what other posters was, i.e. the safety angle, but that it puts the wind up punters to see fighters at low-ish level in an urban area. To compare F-18s to an R-22 is pretty laughable in that context.

One more thing - I'd love to have F-18s or even creaky old F.3s :D fly over my gaff, considering the Irish Air Corps is down to one jet aircraft now [Gulfstream IV] but I know a lot of my neighbours mightn't.

[Green on, Go!]

Not so long ago (ie post Sep 11) a RAAF Hawk conducted a photo shoot with an USAF E-3 or similar (EW aircraft, B707 origins no radome painted two-tone white and grey, exact type escapes me right now) over central Sydney, Oz at about 2-3000 AMSL. The only problem was the RAAF neglected to issue a press release and scared the $#&* out of all the punters. Talk-back radio went crazy suggesting a RAAF fighter was 'engaging' a large passenger jet just above the roof tops of the Sydney CBD, and it made the first story of every evening news in the country.

Like most folks here, I've no problem with jets zapping around the place, however if you try and distance yourself from the aviation industry, you can imagine the level of paranoia this sort of incident would cause.

Needless to say, the RAAF was very apologetic.

[MarkD]

Green on

er... sure it wasn't a KC-135? or even one of those J-STARS thingys... don't think they have a radome, E-8 I think.

[canberra]

project wedgetail(after the only australian eagle) is the raaf aew aircraft, its a 737.

[Green on, Go!]

Mark D

I suspect you're right. Certainly not an E-3 Sentry (AEW&C) as there was no radome. It probably was a C-135 variant, not a KC-135 (Air-to-Air refueller), but an EC-135 perhaps? Anyway lots of electronics and crap hanging off it, but to the punters it looked like a civil airliner.