BA Cityflyer-2

[AirportPlanner1]

The Cityflyer thread also is a strange place to have a pop at BA’s ‘decline’, as it’s the one bit of the airline short-haul with an excellent product even in economy. No BOB, 2-2 seating

[awwdabaaby]

There's always someone that will complain

[speedrestriction]

I like to just be blunt with the truth

Capitalism means people entrusting their money to a company with the hope that the value of their investment will grow.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x1105/e1ad2ff7_8f7c_40e5_aef3_627296920518_b269dda0d4f96ba07cec0e5 f515505677e381067.jpeg

When it comes to airlines, this is the most important truth.

No profits ultimately lead to no flights and no jobs. All the enthusiasm and esprit de corps in the world will not save a company which is badly run over an extended period. BA has faced a great many challenges in its history and has gone through good and bad patches. The competitive environment over the last forty years has changed and the airline market is scarcely recognisable from that of the 1980s and yet BA remain and (present circumstances aside) is thriving. I am not a BA cheerleader but this is not a company in decline, this is a company evolving to fit the demands of a competitive environment which means it will probably be here in one form or another in forty years from now.

[JobsaGoodun]

Making a profit and being a good airline are two very different things, i.e Ryanair.

It depends on your definition of good. As has been demonstrated, an investor will interpret this word very differently to a customer. The job of the management team of a publicly listed company is first and foremost to answer to shareholders. That's not to say that you shouldn't focus on your customers, but it cannot come at the expense of running a profitable business, something I would argue that Virgin Atlantic are now trying to work through.

On a personal level, Ryanair have never ceased to get me where I needed to go at a price I was very happy to pay. Would I prefer to travel British Airways if I had a choice? Sure I would, as the overall experience is more polished, but would I pay significantly more and travel halfway across the country to LHR to do so? No I wouldn't, but I'd still rather they be a strong competitor on the global scene and being profitable enables that.

In the end, both Ryanair and BA get their customers from A to B and they do so profitably. They are both 'good' at what they do. I guess it then becomes a personal choice as to which one you give your custom.

[wub]

A CFE EMB170 has just taken off from EDI, flown a tight circuit and landed again. Just keeping the machinery oiled.

[USERNAME_]

Start of the flying programme has been delayed from 1st June back to 21st June.

[commit aviation]

According to Jethros three E170’s have moved from Norwich to Warsaw for EOL checks.

Jethro's Previous Updates (http://www.jethros.org.uk/previous/previous_updates.htm)

[virginblue]

So that will leave BACF with just three E170s. Are these earmarked for specific routes? I seem to recall that DUS has been an E170-only route.

[JSCL]

Who would have thought that these 10 year old frame would be considered EOL at a time everyone is saying that regional sized aircraft are the future..

[GLCYZ]

Who would have thought that these 10 year old frame would be considered EOL at a time everyone is saying that regional sized aircraft are the future..

I believe these aircraft are heading to an operator in the US (possibly Republic) and are being replaced with second hand E190s from China Southern the first two of which should enter service in July.

[GLCYZ]

So that will leave BACF with just three E170s. Are these earmarked for specific routes? I seem to recall that DUS has been an E170-only route.

For July and August 170s are scheduled to operate on AMS, DUB, DUS, EDI, FRA, GLA, NCE, UIP and ZRH. DUS and UIP are exclusively 170.

[Downwind_Left]

So that will leave BACF with just three E170s. Are these earmarked for specific routes? I seem to recall that DUS has been an E170-only route.

Actually only 2 left now (G-LCYH / YI) as G-LCYE left for Warsaw several weeks ago.

[USERNAME_]

Looks like EDI base is to be closed down according to Unite

[commit aviation]

See post #238 on 14th May for a link to BALPA site with this proposed news.
Sadly it is a sign of the current tough times in aviation. Fingers crossed on a decent outcome for all concerned both in EDI, BACF and the wider industry.

[BOHEuropean]

Who would have thought that these 10 year old frame would be considered EOL at a time everyone is saying that regional sized aircraft are the future..

EOL = End of Lease
Not, 'End of Life' which I'm assuming you may have thought?

[Mr A Tis]

Have a flight booked late September, MAN-JMK with Cityflyer.
BA insist the flight operates & any changes/cancellation by me is subject to normal T & Cs (Flight booked last January). The flight appears non bookable on line- states no direct service, despite BA saying flight operates.
Are the Cityflyer regional sun flights pulled for the entire season - or are they to be resumed soon?
From a personal viewpoint, my accommodation is cancellation free until mid July, but if BA pull the flight only a few weeks before, will incur what are currently avoidable costs.
Public confidence in air travel needs to be enhanced, the whole refund situation by many (but not all) and the late cancellations (when they know they will not operate) will do nothing to inspire future bookings.

[Playamar2]

Looks like BA don't want to give you a refund until the last minute. Posted on the Head for Points website yesterdayBritish Airways drops ‘regional weekend’ CityFlyer services to EuropeDuring the week, BA CityFlyer flies from London City airport to key business destinations in Europe. At weekends, however, it offers a range of leisure destinations to maximise the use of its aircraft.

As far as I can tell, all of these services appear to have been cancelled for Summer 2020 although passengers have not been notified. Here are the impacted routes which have been cut:

From Edinburgh: Florence, Palma

From Glasgow: Palma

From Manchester: Alicante, Florence, Ibiza, Malaga, Mykonos, Nice, Palma

From Stansted: Faro, Florence, Ibiza, Malaga, Mykonos, Palma

[ifu05596]

Have a flight booked late September, MAN-JMK with Cityflyer.
BA insist the flight operates & any changes/cancellation by me is subject to normal T & Cs (Flight booked last January). The flight appears non bookable on line- states no direct service, despite BA saying flight operates.
Are the Cityflyer regional sun flights pulled for the entire season - or are they to be resumed soon?
From a personal viewpoint, my accommodation is cancellation free until mid July, but if BA pull the flight only a few weeks before, will incur what are currently avoidable costs.
Public confidence in air travel needs to be enhanced, the whole refund situation by many (but not all) and the late cancellations (when they know they will not operate) will do nothing to inspire future bookings.

looks like they have started cancelling the August one and are probably doing it stages to keep your cash for a bit longer!

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/06/27/ba-cityflyer-relaunches-9-routes-from-city-airport-but-drops-all-regional-weekend-flights/

[GLCYZ]

Regional flights won’t be happening this summer. The airline wants to run a simplified operation, and with more stands available at LCY and reduced demand there’s no need to send aircraft away for the weekend.

[Mr A Tis]

Regional flights won’t be happening this summer. The airline wants to run a simplified operation, and with more stands available at LCY and reduced demand there’s no need to send aircraft away for the weekend.

Thanks for the update.
If only BA would be honest with it's customers, it dents any confidence in the industry. Here is the reply from BA Customer services...
Hi .... flights for September are currently operating as scheduled. Any changes at this stage would be as per the fare rules of your ticket.

[AirportPlanner1]

A lot seems to have been chopped, booked a one way from AMS on Wed for late August only for it to be cancelled the next day. I only booked it as KLM cancelled my original flight. No LCY-AMS by anyone on a Sunday.

[USERNAME_]

Belfast City starting 1st September x1 Daily, with the aim to start x3 daily when there is sufficient market recovery.

[WHBM]

Barrhead Travel have announced a major reduction in the size of their business today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-53314534?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story

Were they not significant charterers of Cityflyer spare capacity at weekends ?

[flyerguy]

Barrhead Travel have announced a major reduction in the size of their business today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-53314534?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story

Were they not significant charterers of Cityflyer spare capacity at weekends ?

The cityflyer charters won’t be operating at all this year, yet to be decided if and when they will return.

[Jet Set Willie]

Barrhead Travel have announced a major reduction in the size of their business today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-53314534?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story

Were they not significant charterers of Cityflyer spare capacity at weekends ?

Several years ago yes. Since the business went more towards the region to sun model though I think there has only been the odd one on a weekend from GLA and EDI. ABZ stopped years ago.

[GLCYZ]

Several years ago yes. Since the business went more towards the region to sun model though I think there has only been the odd one on a weekend from GLA and EDI. ABZ stopped years ago.

In Summer 2019 all Barrhead Travel charters were from GLA, to REU, PMI, BCN and GOA.

[rog747]

BACF has had a large charter program at Weekends stepped up over the past summers. (sadly not this one!) plus SKI flights in winter.

Typically-
As mentioned BarrHead Travel had many departures from GLA, EDI & ABZ mainly to Spain and its islands (REU BCN ALC AGP IBZ PMI MAH)
Other regular series from GLA & EDI were to Faro Genoa Zurich Verona Venice and Salzburg.

Some other past operations were flown from MAN, IOM, HUY, BOH again to Spain and the islands and to some others.

Winter ski flights were flown too operating to Chambery Toulouse Grenoble Verona & Salzburg


Quite a large Sun/Beach routes scheduled flight expansion was seen from LCY to include Croatia & the Greek Islands SPU JSI JMK and JTR which seem to continue for this summer.

[GLCYZ]

As well as the proposed redundancies, the company wants to take a hatchet to terms and conditions:

Removing a guaranteed three days off after six days on
Removing the right to refuse (and disruption payments)
Reducing rest down route to 11 hours
Removing the min number of hours for days off (currently 60 for two days), instead aligning with EASA definitions
Removing right to a day off after night flying
Allowing 2 (rather than 1) single days off to count towards the monthly total
Removing the right to a day off around a standby block
Removing fixed patterns for part time colleagues
Reduction of annual leave and restriction on number of days that can be taken in the summer
Changes to training executive duties, including conducting IFA for CSM
Increasing delegate to trainer ratio
removing hotel breakfasts
replacing taxis with public transport

[Albert Hall]

Changes to training executive duties, including conducting IFA for CSM
Increasing delegate to trainer ratio



Although some of the above are undoubtedly big changes, you really have to wonder how it was possible for the two points above to ever have become industrial relations negotiations. Why would anyone have agreed these as T&Cs in the first place?

[nowhereasfiled]

replacing taxis with public transport




Surely not? Is that not a potential fatigue risk? That could become a serious pain in the arse for Crewing/Ops

[GLCYZ]

Surely not? Is that not a potential fatigue risk? That could become a serious pain in the arse for Crewing/Ops

This has come from Unite. Presumably something that came about from some management “grey sky thinking” - personally can’t see it as something to be seriously considered but who knows?

[davidjohnson6]

Be careful how much you push back against BACF... Zoom has made many senior people in big corporates change their opinions on how people will work in the future.

[virginblue]

The future for BACF, LCY and Canary Wharf will be challenging. I have read interviews with CEOs of large international companies stating that their company will give up up to a third of its office space and cut corporate travel by 50 per cent.

[GLCYZ]

In the short term at least I think there will be a lot of reliance on premium leisure - this is certainly reflected in the July and August schedules.

[WHBM]

Be careful how much you push back against BACF... Zoom has made many senior people in big corporates change their opinions on how people will work in the future.
I work with a corporate and as some on here will know am a longstanding CityFlyer user.

Zoom, Teams, Skype for Business, GoToMeeting, High Five, Webex etc are an absolute last ditch step to stay in contact, which everyone will readily let go the moment they are able. As a current enforced daily user they are by no means all they are cracked up to be. Sales and new business opportunities just don't work well, and once your competitors start doing business travel again anyone hoping to do it just the on-line way will be left behind.

[willy wombat]

What are these taxis for? My crews used to stay in appropriate airport hotels and thus neither taxis nor public transport required.

[CandyBender]

What are these taxis for? My crews used to stay in appropriate airport hotels and thus neither taxis nor public transport required.

I know that EDI based crews sometimes finish their day in GLA.....could be to do with that. When mainline BA had a GLA base they rountinely finished their days in EDI to be taxied back to their cars in GLA.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I know that EDI based crews sometimes finish their day in GLA.....could be to do with that. When mainline BA had a GLA base they rountinely finished their days in EDI to be taxied back to their cars in GLA.

They’re closing the EDI base so won’t be to do with that.

[inOban]

I understood that for BACF EDI and GLA were a single pool of crew.
And now, in normal times, there's a citylink coach from EDI to central Glasgow every 30 minutes.

[SWBKCB]

Thought EDI base was up for closure?

[Albert Hall]

EDI base is indeed earmarked for closure with a high number of redundancies as a result.

As well as the GLA-EDI movements, they have quite a lot of weekend duties where LCY-based crews either position back into LHR on Friday/Saturday or position out of LHR on Sunday/Monday to start touring patterns through the BACF network. I dread to think how much that all costs. Last season's LCY-Ibiza Friday night was probably the crowning glory of expensive crew duties with a crew positioned down-route to take over from the crew incoming from LCY who then positioned back.

[WHBM]

First Cityflyer departures from LCY for some months this morning, just the Mediterranean flights to Palma, Ibiza, Malaga and Florence. LCYK, N, O and X. Good to start seeing you all back.

[USERNAME_]

Good loads on most departures this morning too, the first 4 (PMI, IBZ, AGP, FLR) With well over 70 pax, even the inbounds have fairly healthy loads given the circumstances, with the returning PMI having 2 in Club and 60 in Trav, and IBZ with 2-40.

[GLCYZ]

Closure of EDI base confirmed today.

[marlowe]

That is really sad news, a lot of friends at that base and happy memories .

[OneBellEnd]

A bit bizarre that BACF are closing down crew ops in Edinburgh with all the years of strong history and deep financial connections between the capitals of Scotland and England, yet at the same time - and now, of all times - they are launching a Belfast based product with crew set-up to fly to LCY!??

[GLCYZ]

A bit bizarre that BACF are closing down crew ops in Edinburgh with all the years of strong history and deep financial connections between the capitals of Scotland and England, yet at the same time - and now, of all times - they are launching a Belfast based product with crew set-up to fly to LCY!??

Belfast, like all CityFlyer routes going forward, will be operated by LCY based crew.

[Fly757X]

A bit bizarre that BACF are closing down crew ops in Edinburgh with all the years of strong history and deep financial connections between the capitals of Scotland and England, yet at the same time - and now, of all times - they are launching a Belfast based product with crew set-up to fly to LCY!??

As far as I'm aware there has been no mention of a base at BHD. The frame will be night stopping.

[AirportPlanner1]

Probably a bit more versatility and resilience in BHD...you mention finance yourself with EDI and there won’t be significant travel for those purposes any time soon. It was clear Flybe did rather well on it so not a surprise it’s being picked up. Plus Belfast may become more attractive for business next year if NI retains closer alignment with EU.

[Startledgrapefruit]

As far as I'm aware there has been no mention of a base at BHD. The frame will be night stopping.
So they checked the Flybe passenger loads and called the Helga Lodge to see how much a room is for the night ( cheapest guest house in Belfast)
No need for suite at Culloden due to new terms and conditions ?
Call Katy and get VIP seats at Kingspan
There you go ... Sorted

[Alteagod]

I am not sure that one nightstop makes a base. BA mainline also nightstop at BHD and did not have a base. They have engineering cover but thats the only BA coverage

[irishlad06]

A bit bizarre that BACF are closing down crew ops in Edinburgh with all the years of strong history and deep financial connections between the capitals of Scotland and England, yet at the same time - and now, of all times - they are launching a Belfast based product with crew set-up to fly to LCY!??


BHD will just be a night stopping aircraft with crews from LCY that stay over the previous night.

[richardwpprn]

With EZY leaving STN is there an opportunity for more year round weekend leisure flying for BACF from STN in the longer term?

[GLCYZ]

With EZY leaving STN is there an opportunity for more year round weekend leisure flying for BACF from STN in the longer term?

As I understand it the financials of STN and regional ops with a 98 seater E190 are marginal at best, driven by lack of parking space at LCY and its high cost. With the enlarged apron at LCY and reduced demand this could change things.

[southside bobby]

The enlarged apron at LCY in itself does not alter the mix unless the weekend curfew is removed...Closed all day Sat & Sun am & early pm.

[AirportPlanner1]

The couple of times I’ve been on it out of STN it’s been more or less full and more importantly full up front. Also they expanded the operation rather than scrap it which suggests it did OK. Although clearly that now comes with a massive caveat as things have changed.

[BA318]

The enlarged apron at LCY in itself does not alter the mix unless the weekend curfew is removed...Closed all day Sat & Sun am & early pm.

They already proposed to scrap that. Given they use to leave a few parked up at LCY anyway the new stands do mean that they can leave more there doing nothing if they wanted to.

[RJ100]

Closed all day Sat & Sun am & early pm.

Slight correction. Its actually closed from about lunch time Sat until lunch time Sunday

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The enlarged apron at LCY in itself does not alter the mix unless the weekend curfew is removed...Closed all day Sat & Sun am & early pm.
Closes 1230 Sat and re-opens 1230 Sunday.
I was once on a GLA-LCY inbound on a Sunday morning when Captain Speaking confidently announced he would have us on stand 15 minutes early at 1215......"no you won't" thought I and lo and behold there was an extended tour of the Southend area for at quarter of an hour

[WHBM]

There's no more issue of a shortage of parking stands at LCY at the weekend than there is on any weeknight. In any event, the business demand pattern at LCY makes it more appropriate for aircraft to overnight at the outstations, particularly with the one hour time difference in mainland Europe.

The additional stands at the east end, which have come into service now after the shutdown, have anyway been compensated by the big temporary building put inconveniently on the apron, part of the building works.

The services out of Stansted are just to do something with the aircraft during the 24 hour LCY weekend shutdown. If LCY was a full 7 day operation those flights would be out of the base, as at other times.

[southside bobby]

Reasons concerning STN weekend ops has always been understood.

Many opposing factors in play with a LCY full 7 day operation & good luck anybody guessing the outcome of that particular planning decision.

[WHBM]

Many opposing factors in play with a LCY full 7 day operation & good luck anybody guessing the outcome of that particular planning decision.
I think we probably live nearer to LCY than just about any other of the regular posters here.

I'm sure any planning decision by the "elected representatives" will be taken without any meaningful consultation of those who live around, or consideration of their views.

[southside bobby]

Hilarious...Quite so.

[BAladdy]

So that will leave BACF with just three E170s. Are these earmarked for specific routes? I seem to recall that DUS has been an E170-only route.
The Winter season begin on the 25th October. Based on the current schedule loaded the E70 is planned to operate:

25th October to 29th November

Monday to Friday

BA3270/BA3271/BA3272/BA3273/BA3274/BA3275/BA3276/BA3277
DUS-LCY-DUS-LCY-DUS-LCY-DUS-LCY-DUS

Saturday

BA3270/BA8497/BA8496/BA3273
DUS-LCY-AMS-LCY-DUS

Sunday

BA3276/BA3277
DUS-LCY-DUS

30th November

BA3270/BA3271/BA3272
DUS-LCY-DUS-LCY

Actually only 2 left now (G-LCYH / YI) as G-LCYE left for Warsaw several weeks ago.
Looks like the last 2 E70’s are planned to leave the fleet prior to the end of November as there are no E70 flights scheduled after the 30th November. Anyone able to confirm?. If this is the case will both leave the fleet at the same time or will one leave prior to the start of the winter schedule?

I believe these aircraft are heading to an operator in the US (possibly Republic) and are being replaced with second hand E190s from China Southern the first two of which should enter service in July.
BA Cityflyer Fleet List (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_cityflyer.htm)

First ex China Southern E190 registered G-LCAC arrived in NWI from WAW a week ago. According to Jethros fleet listing a further 5 ex China Southern E190’s leased aircraft are planned to arrive over the coming months. All aircraft will undergo EIS (entry into service) maintenance/checks prior to being handed over to BACF. Due dates shown below are the dates they are expected to be handed over to BACF.

G-LCAD - Due SEP20 (arr WAW 31MAY).
G-LCAE - Due 4Q20. (arr WAW 10JUL)
G-LCAF - Due 4Q20. (arr WAW 14AUG)
G-LCAG - Due 4Q20/1Q21
G-LCAH - Due 4Q20/1Q21

[richardwpprn]

LCY-FAO flights re-appeared fairly quickly when the travel advice changed.

[virginblue]

If DUS is the last remaining E70 route, it would appear that it is also the most vulnerable in the network with relatively light loads (unless the comparatively few passengers are extraordinarily high yielding, which I doubt). I am somewhat surprised because DUS-LCY was the route Flybe picked to compete with BACF, which back then suggested to me a decent pax volume.

[BA318]

If DUS is the last remaining E70 route, it would appear that it is also the most vulnerable in the network with relatively light loads (unless the comparatively few passengers are extraordinarily high yielding, which I doubt). I am somewhat surprised because DUS-LCY was the route Flybe picked to compete with BACF, which back then suggested to me a decent pax volume.

I’ve used it a fair bit (usually on a Sat/Sun) and it varied from full to about 10 people. Sometimes fares were crazy at £300 one way and other times return for under £100.

[nowhereasfiled]

I find it strange how even during a crisis like this, airlines cutting countless jobs, shedding every pound possible to save pennies, BACF of all airlines are getting new aircraft, 190LRs at that.

What’s the plan here? They won’t ship them all over straight to storage at NWI surely? There must be something in works, or am I totally missing something.

Any substance to the rumours of them moving the odd Embraer to operate out of LGW or is that all duff gen

[jethro15]

I find it strange how even during a crisis like this, airlines cutting countless jobs, shedding every pound possible to save pennies, BACF of all airlines are getting new aircraft, 190LRs at that.

E190's replacing the E170's

[Downwind_Left]

The same reason BA are taking delivery of new A32Xneo/350/787-10s, Virgin are taking A350s and TUI have a load of second hand 737-800s painted up ready to go. These aircraft were ordered and contracted months or years ago, just because COVID happened, you can’t just walk away from the deal without hefty penalties. Manufacturers and leasing companies have been accommodating with delivery delays and deferments given the circumstances, but still... its very difficult for an airline to walk away from their commitments at the last minute.

I’m sure every airline globally who had aircraft on order is stuck with some they’d now rather not have, Cityflyer is hardly unique.

[Jet Set Willie]

The main problem now with DUS is the loss of Air Berlin as a one world partner. Like using DUB to go west, DUS was ideal for those near LCY or who hate LHR. You could check in in under 30 mins and going through DUS allowed connections to all over the world with minimum fuss. That loss has affected loads I would wager and that traffic now seemed to be passing through FRA pre-covid from what I could see.

That said, the city is lovely and hence the loads are still worthy of the route for point to point, esp now FlyBe are no longer in the picture.

[WHBM]

The main problem now with DUS is the loss of Air Berlin as a one world partner. Like using DUB to go west, DUS was ideal for those near LCY or who hate LHR. You could check in in under 30 mins and going through DUS allowed connections to all over the world with minimum fuss. That loss has affected loads I would wager and that traffic now seemed to be passing through FRA pre-covid from what I could see.
I have to say I never saw a OneWorld connection offered through Dusseldorf, either on the BA website or through the independent Web ones. KLM, Lufthansa and (notably) Swiss seem to do them extensively from LCY, but it seems that fares from the UK are marketed by BA rather than OneWorld, who want you to use BA all the way.

In passing both Lufthansa and Swiss, when we have been travelling from LCY to Athens, St Petersburg, etc, have seemed to make every effort to get short connection passengers through and away, with special staff, ramp car transfers, etc, whereas BA at Heathrow leave you to your own devices, follow the signs, and general queues etc, and if you miss it - too bad.

[toledoashley]

I have to say I never saw a OneWorld connection offered through Dusseldorf, either on the BA website or through the independent Web ones. KLM, Lufthansa and (notably) Swiss seem to do them extensively from LCY, but it seems that fares from the UK are marketed by BA rather than OneWorld, who want you to use BA all the way.

In passing both Lufthansa and Swiss, when we have been travelling from LCY to Athens, St Petersburg, etc, have seemed to make every effort to get short connection passengers through and away, with special staff, ramp car transfers, etc, whereas BA at Heathrow leave you to your own devices, follow the signs, and general queues etc, and if you miss it - too bad.

I was originally booked DRS-DUS-LHR a couple of years ago (AB connecting to BA). With their collapse, ended up getting the train from DRS to FRA, and flying back from FRA.

[cavokblues]

Any substance to the rumours of them moving the odd Embraer to operate out of LGW or is that all duff gen

Never say never as it briefly happened a few years ago as cover but there would have to a serious negotiation with BALPA and changes to the Scope agreement for it ever to happen on a permanent basis.

[nowhereasfiled]

Never say never as it briefly happened a few years ago as cover but there would have to a serious negotiation with BALPA and changes to the Scope agreement for it ever to happen on a permanent basis.

I might be far off the mark here, hopefully a BACF/BA chap can correct me, but as far as I’m aware the scope clause is well and truly in the gutter at this point.

[Albert Hall]

The scope clause has effectively disappeared as part of the recent vote. BACF can operate aircraft with more than 100 seats and from LHR and LGW if they wish.

[RJ100]

The scope clause has effectively disappeared as part of the recent vote. BACF can operate aircraft with more than 100 seats and from LHR and LGW if they wish.

That does not give an entirely accurate picture. They can operate aircraft with more than 100 seat “as long as flights continue to mainly transit through LCY” so yes they could operate into LGW for example, the bulk of CF flights would still be transiting through LCY.

[tigertanaka]

Wonder if the ability to run the E190 into LHR in the past might have saved thin routes like LBA? Maybe we will see them run to NQY in the winter if BA wins the PSO?

[mmeteesside]

Sounds to me like opening the door to Cityflyer operating weekend leisure routes out of LHR & LGW strengthening BA's grip on this market.

[Wycombe]

Maybe we will see them run to NQY in the winter if BA wins the PSO?

BA have the PSO (under an emergency order) until March 21, this was announced back in July NQY announcement (https://www.cornwallairportnewquay.com/press/press-releases/year-round-connection-to-london-heathrow-restored)

[tigertanaka]

BA have the PSO (under an emergency order) until March 21, this was announced back in July NQY announcement (https://www.cornwallairportnewquay.com/press/press-releases/year-round-connection-to-london-heathrow-restored)

Yes, I was aware of that, maybe I should have added if they win the PSO in the long term. As it stands, you can't book LHR-NQY between 24 Feb and 30 June.

[RJ100]

Sounds to me like opening the door to Cityflyer operating weekend leisure routes out of LHR & LGW strengthening BA's grip on this market.
I don’t think we’ll ever see BACF operating out of a LHR. LGW possibly but still doubtful.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I don’t think we’ll ever see BACF operating out of a LHR. LGW possibly but still doubtful.
Pre COVID no, but the market is on it's arse and the 80/20 rule at LHR is on the way back. So as a slot sitter to maintain frequency it may have some merit.
LGW makes less sense unless the aircraft are densified and that involves carrying one other cabin crew IIRC?

[willy wombat]

One cabin crew member per 50 seats, or part thereof installed. 100 seats - 2 cc is ok, 101 seats requires 3. In a previous life, if we were desperately short of cc, we’d reconfig the RJ100 into a high club config (converting rows of 6Y into 5C) to reduce the seat count so we could operate with 2 cc.

[Mr A Tis]

I suppose the BACF E-jets could operate W flights from LHR. LHR-NQY-MAN-NQY-LHR or LHR-NQY-NCL-NQY-LHR. NQY-MAN/NCL post Flybe hasn't been picked up by anyone as yet, & BACF low costs could be of use keeping the e-jets in use & operate a year round daily NQY ex LHR- as I think some days are currently only seasonal.

[GLCYZ]

Announced today that there are to be no cabin crew redundancies at LCY.

[Downwind_Left]

Announced today that there are to be no crew redundancies at LCY.

Well that’s not true. 8 pilots have been made redundant and 25 pilots have been placed in the community retention pool. Those in the pool have no promise of return, depending on the market. BALPA did a good job of reducing the number down from the original 72. But crew in LCY are definitely losing their jobs. To say nothing of the sad loss of many of our amazing Scottish colleagues.

[GLCYZ]

Originally BA CityFlyer had hoped to fly a 70% schedule this winter but it's now looking like 10-15%.

[USERNAME_]

Good news for the cabin crew though, or so it seems. Appears everybody is returning to roster this month from furlough. Some clever bean counter must have realised it’s cheaper to pay everybody basic rather than paying 2/3rds of furlough/JSS wages

[GLCYZ]

Good news for the cabin crew though, or so it seems. Appears everybody is returning to roster this month from furlough. Some clever bean counter must have realised it’s cheaper to pay everybody basic rather than paying 2/3rds of furlough/JSS wages

Everyone who wants to return to work next month is being recalled. As far as I know a decision hasn't been taken on how pay will work - appears in my case that taking advantage of the JSS scheme would still be cheaper for the company than just paying my basic.

[HZ123]

I think a main issue for both BA and BACF is the pain may not be over yet. Both outfits will struggle to pay bills on such a reduced programme. What is the permitted load factor and how many seats are being filled?