Derry/Londonderry 2

[cuthere]

Yeah, Stobart were the other airline in the final two. Who knows? Long old run in an ATR tueboprop. Still, as you say, they may have found value in operating MAN as well (for instance).

[Alteagod]

From memory the PSO rules on funding are very restricted. I recall Euroceltic being threatened with fines from the EU for operating to SXL and then busing pax to I think CFN rather than operating desperate sectors. I'm sure it is worse now and probably not that easy to do something else with your airframe that's outside the PSO t and C's. It might not be as simple as in down time fly some place else

[cuthere]

I stand to be corrected, but believe when BE were doing Dundee to Stansted under a PSO, they added a (doomed) Amsterdam using the same airframe.

[Fly757X]

I stand to be corrected, but believe when BE were doing Dundee to Stansted under a PSO, they added a (doomed) Amsterdam using the same airframe.

That is correct, then they moved the services to EDI.

[AirportPlanner1]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the only other interested party at the time of the PSO tender was Stobart. I wonder if they would have done a better job. They could have possibly utilised aircraft downtime better with perhaps a DUB rotation or two.

I always thought Stobart would have been a good outcome for LDY, because you would have got the same business-friendly schedule but with a bit more volume. You also would have got a few connections through SEN. It would certainly have been on the E195 , not an ATR.

I’m not sure they would have done other routes though and certainly not DUB. It’s more likely they would have operated somewhere from SEN inbetween, eg LDY-SEN-XXX-SEN-LDY-SEN-LDY. This would also allow them to swap aircraft and crews.

[cuthere]

I’m not sure they would have done other routes though and certainly not DUB. It’s more likely they would have operated somewhere from SEN inbetween, eg LDY-SEN-XXX-SEN-LDY-SEN-LDY. This would also allow them to swap aircraft and crews.

That schedule would be pointless. How does one travel from London to Derry, then have a full day’s business before flying back to LON?

[AirportPlanner1]

People used to manage OK with just one flight at the crack of dawn.

If you want to pick hairs they could actually fit in three return flights LDY-SEN and still fit in Lyon, Cologne, Rennes or such like in between, but to be honest it’s all hypothetical and irrelevant until the tender comes along again.

[globetrotter79]

Just to note that BE have never operated a Dundee-London PSO and the Dundee-London and Dundee-Amsterdam services were never operated by the same aircraft:
The London PSO has always (during its life span as a PSO funded route) been operated by Loganair, usually using 30-odd seat Dornier 328 or Saab aircraft. For a period the route was, of course, operated under the flybe franchise, but it was always Loganair underneath.
The Dundee-Amsterdam service was a totally separate thing, operated by flybe themselves with a Dash-8 (I believe on a W-pattern using a BHX-based aircraft?).
As such, during the life of the Dundee-London PSO operation, the Loganair aircraft allocated to this has never been used for any regular additional scheduled flying in between the London runs.

[speedbirdATC]

I’ve just heard from a very good source that something is cooking with Flybe. I’m told executives from the airline have been at the airport this week and that some form of route announcement is on the cards soon with the finer details being ironed out over the coming weeks. STN, MAN, BHX are being mooted as the discussed routes, as we would have expected.
Nothing is certain until we see it of course, but it’s still good to hear of some more positive route news in the pipeline.

[cuthere]

That would be a step change for the airport. Having two successful and established regional airlines at LDY would be excellent. Do you have any timescales on this, should it happen? Fingers firmly crossed in the meantime.

[Amelia Earhart]

Obviously a replacement for BMI Regional then if STN is being discussed.

Would FlyBe finally make LDY work after so many false dawns? They worked wonders for BHD.

If the rumour is true then unlike their last foray into LDY (a feeder route to BHD) they obviously no longer see flying from LDY as competing with themselves at BHD since there are now so many other operators from BHD and BFS.

[speedbirdATC]

That would be a step change for the airport. Having two successful and established regional airlines at LDY would be excellent. Do you have any timescales on this, should it happen? Fingers firmly crossed in the meantime.

I’ll likely hear more details over the weekend, but no timescales on this yet other than a 2019 launch.
I also heard that EZY were being courted on a few sun routes, but nothing has materialised from this yet. More execs from other airlines due in the coming weeks too.
I get a feeling that some money is starting to flow somewhere internally to make all this happen.

[Fly757X]

I’ll likely hear more details over the weekend, but no timescales on this yet other than a 2019 launch.
I also heard that EZY were being courted on a few sun routes, but nothing has materialised from this yet. More execs from other airlines due in the coming weeks too.
I get a feeling that some money is starting to flow somewhere internally to make all this happen.

Seems like a very dramatic rise...

[speedbirdATC]

Seems like a very dramatic rise...

Lets hope so....

[Fly757X]

Lets hope so....

Please don’t take this badly but I honestly doubt it. If I hear something fixed then I’ll believe it. I would love it to be true but it seems too good 😂. But... Clive Coleman did say there is another announcement before the end of the year in a recent interview with Mark Patterson.

[speedbirdATC]

Please don’t take this badly but I honestly doubt it. If I hear something fixed then I’ll believe it. I would love it to be true but it seems too good 😂. But... Clive Coleman did say there is another announcement before the end of the year in a recent interview with Mark Patterson.

If I had read this on here, I too would have doubted it. I can assure you I heard it from the horses mouth so to speak.
Nothings concrete until everyone puts pen to paper I know, so let's hope it all comes true. We’ll know soon enough I guess.

[Fly757X]

If I had read this on here, I too would have doubted it. I can assure you I heard it from the horses mouth so to speak.
Nothings concrete until everyone puts pen to paper I know, so let's hope it all comes true. We’ll know soon enough I guess.

Lets wait and hope! The EZY stuff... I would say they would be wary of their BFS base and the effects it could have on it. Logically... BEE seems likely. STN due for renewal. They were in to operate BHX in the past but pulled out and they've offered MAN in years gone by. With clear demand displayed from LDY in previous years it would be a great time for them!

[cuthere]

Whilst I agree EZY would seem unlikely, we should remember they’re up against LS, FR and charters at BFS to the usual bucket and spade destinations. No such competitions exists at LDY. As an aside, I read elsewhere that Cello Aviation have gone into administration. I wonder who will be brought in to operate the summer charter in their place.

[speedbirdATC]

Lets wait and hope! The EZY stuff... I would say they would be wary of their BFS base and the effects it could have on it. Logically... BEE seems likely. STN due for renewal. They were in to operate BHX in the past but pulled out and they've offered MAN in years gone by. With clear demand displayed from LDY in previous years it would be a great time for them!

I agree BEE are an excellent fit for the airport. As for EZY I do also agree that its a long shot, but they have tinkered with their BFS base before when they moved the LTN service down the road to BHD for a while.
If theres free money on the table for airlines to use then I think anything is possible.

[Fly757X]

Whilst I agree EZY would seem unlikely, we should remember they’re up against LS, FR and charters at BFS to the usual bucket and spade destinations. No such competitions exists at LDY. As an aside, I read elsewhere that Cello Aviation have gone into administration. I wonder who will be brought in to operate the summer charter in their place.

I would say it will be up-gauged to a B738/734. I would say either AEA, Albastar or TUI UK/DE will get it on a W sector from PMI.

[scodaman]

In this news this week was a story about the local Airporter bus company moving to a new base in Derry.

They bus 150,000 people from Derry to Belfast every year to fly from the 2 x Belfast airports.

I was amazed it was so much. And think of how many go via their own car.

Sticking with the Airporter of course every route that they are going to Belfast to fly from would not be viable with Derry passengers alone but 150,000 is still a big number and surely a good amount of them could fly from Derry on the major routes if timings and prices where right.

[Fly757X]

In this news this week was a story about the local Airporter bus company moving to a new base in Derry.

They bus 150,000 people from Derry to Belfast every year to fly from the 2 x Belfast airports.

I was amazed it was so much. And think of how many go via their own car.

Sticking with the Airporter of course every route that they are going to Belfast to fly from would not be viable with Derry passengers alone but 150,000 is still a big number and surely a good amount of them could fly from Derry on the major routes if timings and prices where right.

I've never personally used them but I've heard great things. Great news for a local company!

[scodaman]

Hope the Flybe story is true.

What gives it some legit if true is that Flybe home office is Exeter Airport and Regional and City Airports who run City of Derry for the council also own Exeter Airport.

[Fly757X]

Hope the Flybe story is true.

What gives it some legit if true is that Flybe home office is Exeter Airport and Regional and City Airports who run City of Derry for the council also own Exeter Airport.

Funny that, I was just thinking about that last night. Will be interesting to see who these other airlines are and if they're already operating at CoDA.

[Refuellerman]

Please don’t take this badly but I honestly doubt it. If I hear something fixed then I’ll believe it. I would love it to be true but it seems too good 😂. But... Clive Coleman did say there is another announcement before the end of the year in a recent interview with Mark Patterson.
that its closing soon, thats all ive heard from baggage handlers

[cuthere]

that its closing soon, thats all ive heard from baggage handlers

This post sums up many things that are wrong in the world right now. Baggage handlers. I’m done.

[Alteagod]

BE are a very strong brand and one associated very much to GBBCA. To operate to CODA would seem a strange but I guess not totally out there idea but I would think Stobart would be most likely to operate therefore taking most of the financial risk.

[Geolog]

Looks as if G-RJXI may have gone tech at STN this afternoon, BM1506 did not return to LDY and 1507 and 1508 did not operate. This would not look promising for Monday morning's rotations. BM do not appear to have much contingency in place.

The Glasgow service was also operating approx. four hours delayed. So not a good day.

[Fly757X]

BE are a very strong brand and one associated very much to GBBCA. To operate to CODA would seem a strange but I guess not totally out there idea but I would think Stobart would be most likely to operate therefore taking most of the financial risk.

The Stobart contract with FlyBe is dead in the water. I honestly don’t know where STK could go from there. Personally I don’t think going to LDY would massively affect GBBCA, if anything to would maybe affect the EZY/RYR routes from BFS-MAN. I personally know very few who travel front BHD to the mainland, BFS is always the first choice due to it simply being closer. With more domestic routes on the doorstep of many it would be an opportunity not to be missed.

[owenc]

So is it likely that Derry will now see proper frequent service then?

[AirportPlanner1]

When is the tender for LDY-LON up for renewal, or an announcement expected?

[Fly757X]

When is the tender for LDY-LON up for renewal, or an announcement expected?

In 2017 it was announced in February and started in May,

[buzz_hornet]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the only other interested party at the time of the PSO tender was Stobart. I wonder if they would have done a better job. They could have possibly utilised aircraft downtime better with perhaps a DUB rotation or two.

my understanding was the fact that stobart didnt offer jet services whilst BMI did was a key point in the PSO offering. The scoring was circa 86% BMI and 58% stobart from memory

[Dropoffcharge]

Hope the Flybe story is true.

What gives it some legit if true is that Flybe home office is Exeter Airport and Regional and City Airports who run City of Derry for the council also own Exeter Airport.

Not forgetting that the RCA group also now owns Bournemouth too, which currently doesn't have Flybe either. Could there be a bigger deal on the cards to use both CODA and BOH??

[Fly757X]

Not forgetting that the RCA group also now owns Bournemouth too, which currently doesn't have Flybe either. Could there be a bigger deal on the cards to use both CODA and BOH??

Hopefully more news will start trickling out soon.

[Amelia Earhart]

FlyBe profit warning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-45887289)

FlyBe have issued a profit warning but I don't think it will have any impact on the speculated route developments at LDY since despite the profit warning the loses are down from last year.

[BFS watcher]

FlyBe profit warning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-45887289)

FlyBe have issued a profit warning but I don't think it will have any impact on the speculated route developments at LDY since despite the profit warning the loses are down from last year.

Flybe shares down over 40% and at their lowest ever......can’t see much LDY growth if BHD already under huge pressure from U2 and FR. If you take out the accrual losses will increase dramatically. Worrying times for the weakest carriers with Cobalt ceasing operations from tonight and WOW culling routes in the states. Question is who is next?

[Amelia Earhart]

The profit warning seems to be because the previously predicted loss of £9 million which was stated in June now looks like it will be £12 million. This might matter to the dividend that shareholders will receive, hence the share price dive, but it won't affect the company so long as they maintain solvency particularly since losses last year were £20 million. So at least profitability is heading in the right direction.

Company accounts are a bit complicated, Flybe's losses this year being adjusted because of a £10 million "windfall" from exiting from an "onerous lease" and suffering a one off hit from a new IT system, but in general they need to cut loss making routes and replace them with profitable routes. The good news for LDY is that they have no loss making routes to cut. The question is whether FlyBe calculate that any new routes from LDY would be profitable.

While things might look better if FlyBe hadn't issued a profit warning and if they were making a profit, it shouldn't matter to FlyBe operating out of LDY since they do have to change something to make a profit. More of the same isn't an option.

[cuthere]

Not a lot of luck at LDY with the FR GLA flight. Significant delays seem to have plagued this over recent weeks. Yesterday’s was delayed by about four hours, today’s by two. Unusual for FR.

All quiet on the BE rumours, and with chat on the BE thread that they’re in the soup, one wonders the veracity of rumours linking them with LDY.

[speedbirdATC]

Not a lot of luck at LDY with the FR GLA flight. Significant delays seem to have plagued this over recent weeks. Yesterday’s was delayed by about four hours, today’s by two. Unusual for FR.

All quiet on the BE rumours, and with chat on the BE thread that they’re in the soup, one wonders the veracity of rumours linking them with LDY.
The Flybe suits are due back end of next week from what I understand, but as you say they are in the soup so this may have changed the game slightly. The timescale of money distribution is the only stumbling block for them at the moment I’m told. I know nothing more after that.
I’m still a little worried that FR have still to load EDI for summer 19 as well.

[Fly757X]

The Flybe suits are due back end of next week from what I understand, but as you say they are in the soup so this may have changed the game slightly. The timescale of money distribution is the only stumbling block for them at the moment I’m told. I know nothing more after that.
I’m still a little worried that FR have still to load EDI for summer 19 as well.


They haven’t loaded any of the routes that were moved from GLA so they have time to evaluate. LDY should be the best contender to stay due to its frequency that has been carried across.

[Flightrider]

They haven’t loaded any of the routes that were moved from GLA so they have time to evaluate.

That's not correct - several including Berlin, Memmingen and Lisbon have been loaded.

I do find the other stuff on this thread to be very far-fetched...

[Fly757X]

That's not correct - several including Berlin, Memmingen and Lisbon have been loaded.

I do find the other stuff on this thread to be very far-fetched...

Then I stand corrected. Last time I checked they hadn't. I wouldn't say far fetched. Many of the rumours in the past have came true. Until the local Council strips back funding or Stormont Collapses.

[TartinTon]

My money's on a bmi continuation...can't see LDY wanting to go prop after the insistence on jets previously

[Fly757X]

My money's on a bmi continuation...can't see LDY wanting to go prop after the insistence on jets previously

True, but the one thing BMI lack is potential of future with based A/C in the mainland. That, BEE have. Q400s are not even that far behind the ERJ (speed-wise) when compared to the ATRs which is what was in the running for it previously with STK. BMR's punctuality and reliability has also been deplorable at times during their tenure, although for the past while it has been better. If BEE were in for the running it would be hard to turn down a well well established and respected airline in the NI market, and one who I would see as a great future partner in other routes (providing they find themselves in a more stable situation.)

[BFS watcher]

No sign of LDY-EDI on the FR website for sale in the summer. Has it gone?

[cuthere]

No sign of LDY-EDI on the FR website for sale in the summer. Has it gone

Why not drop Ryanair a quick message and ask them? I’d wager if anyone who frequents this forum knew, they would’ve said by now. Give them a buzz and find out. Could make your day.

[cuthere]

Hmmmm. Found out earlier today before getting home from a run to Belfast that I needed to get to the northwest of England either today or Monday. Checked and unfortunately for me LDY-LPL is sold out both days. A bugger for me with respect to convenience, but great to see. A demand for MAN should be easily sated by a twice daily BMIR. We can hope!

Also I hope the LM to GLA and FR to EDI both go well later.

[Fly757X]

Hmmmm. Found out earlier today before getting home from a run to Belfast that I needed to get to the northwest of England either today or Monday. Checked and unfortunately for me LDY-LPL is sold out both days. A bugger for me with respect to convenience, but great to see. A demand for MAN should be easily sated by a twice daily BMIR. We can hope!

Also I hope the LM to GLA and FR to EDI both go well later.

GLA seems to have sold really well on Sundays (but that was expected) and the flights during the week are doing relatively well too. EDI is around 90% booked for today. EDI I would say will rise over time too. It's a pity BMR never expanded on their earlier desire for my routes but with the PSO to STN it makes it virtually impossible to use the based A/C for much more. However, I feel Loganair are not done yet...

[cuthere]

And BE rumours....

[scodaman]

...Also I hope the LM to GLA and FR to EDI both go well later...

Loganair LDY - GLA departure today has been sold out for a while and so is the return next week which is good to see.

It's also a larger Saab 2000 with 50 seats.

[Fly757X]

Loganair LDY - GLA departure today has been sold out for a while and so is the return next week which is good to see.

It's also a larger Saab 2000 with 50 seats.

Here it is from about an hour ago...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156856042@N02/44880850854/in/dateposted-public/

[Fly757X]

CAA stats for September 2018:

LDY movements:

563 (2018)

462 (2017)

Cancelled Movements: 173 (2018)

(Partly due to the removal of 2 Weekly GLA flights)

Increase of 18%

Passenger numbers:

12,136 (2018) = 15% Decrease

14,345 (2017)

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 4310 = -42%
- LIVERPOOL = 4061 = +36%
- LONDON (STN) = 3 847 = -2%

Cancellation of 2 GLA flights a week in September clearly shown.

Load Factors:

-GLASGOW = 87%
-LIVERPOOL = 82%
-LONDON (STN) = 71%

Not a great month when compared to earlier this year.

[scodaman]

Still no sign of LDY > EDI for any dates past March 2019 and apparently Ryanair are now running radio ads in Scotland saying that their summer 2019 flights from GLA and EDI are now on sale.

[Fly757X]

Still no sign of LDY > EDI for any dates past March 2019 and apparently Ryanair are now running radio ads in Scotland saying that their summer 2019 flights from GLA and EDI are now on sale.

I wouldn't fret too much. Selling just as well as GLA did (I would argue on somedays better) and Sofia and Riga still haven't been added either (Also moved from GLA so they are analysing their performance over the winter). It also is quite common that Ryanair keep playing with Schedules into late November.

[Amelia Earhart]

Is the poor facilities at LDY hampering route development?

The staff are friendly and do their best but the terminal is incredibly cramped. A lot of people don't treat it as a "real" airport. Many people immediately think of BFS or BHD first when planning a journey.

Would a larger more pleasant terminal attract better passenger numbers and consequently lead to route development and retention?

The current airport building is really only big enough to host the arrivals. The terminal needs expanded for a new departures area. The original building was never designed for 737s.

[Fly757X]

Is the poor facilities at LDY hampering route development?

The staff are friendly and do their best but the terminal is incredibly cramped. A lot of people don't treat it as a "real" airport. Many people immediately think of BFS or BHD first when planning a journey.

Would a larger more pleasant terminal attract better passenger numbers and consequently lead to route development and retention?

The current airport building is really only big enough to host the arrivals. The terminal needs expanded for a new departures area. The original building was never designed for 737s.

I doubt it is, whilst its not ideal it is only recently where there has been flights overlapping and they are still being punctual. The reason many people jump to BFS or BHD isn't because of the facilities. Its because there is genuinely no choice. I read in the Masterplan that the terminal can cope with 2 B738s and something along the lines of a ATR72 at the one time. IIRC they also expanded departures since then. The Airport just needs to prove to the locals that they're trying for regional connectivity that will lower the reliance on BFS/BHD.

Unrelated but I remember Clive Coleman saying (on the Mark Patterson show) there will be a positive announcement by the end of the year regarding routes. Hopefully it comes through.

[owenc]

A lot of people that are within the airports geographic region, also don't use it, for example, people from Coleraine and the North Coast almost never use the airport. That contrasts with the constant flow of people from Donegal who use it, and who aren't within the airports geographic region.

That's reflected by the over abundance of Irish Passports at the Gate.

[cuthere]

Owen, of course people from Donegal are in its “geographic region”. Also, and this may surprise you, a lot of Derry people have Irish passports.

I do wonder about your posts.

[owenc]

Coleraine is also within its geographic area.

[cuthere]

Coleraine is also within its geographic area

And your point is....?

[Fly757X]

Its just lack of choice sending passengers away. Failed routes in the past (During times of global economic instability causing loss of travellers) have hampered the airports chances for routes in the future. I do remain optimistic about Loganair. Increasing frequency and up-gauging before the route has even begun is a big statement. Historically operating Manchester and Dublin as well which are the airports desired routes.

I think this has been a positive year all round for the airport. Loss of Ryanair's GLA service turned out to be a blessing in disguise. The new EDI service seems to have sold really well so far and GLA seems to be doing well too. Operating 2 routes to the central belt now clearly shows the demand locally. The extra frequency on LPL this year was clearly used. (Not quite the 6 Weekly it used to be but its a start.) London has seen good load factors again this year. Finally PMI was full for all the dates expected. Movements up, Business traffic up, and rumblings on potential developments in the future. All coupled together with the before mentioned Loganair expansion on GLA for next year, momentum is growing. Hopefully the airport capitalise on it.

In other news, there WILL be a new operator for PMI next year (not confirmed as of yet) but with that potentially up-gauging to a -800 or an A320. Thomson's Summer 2020 scheme is to go on sale on the 8th of November too.

Something else that went un-noticed was the Balkan Holidays had "Derry" as a listing at one point for 2019. It was to operate for 8 Weeks during June/July to Burgas. However this was removed earlier in the year.

Sorry for the thesis, I was on a spree.

[cuthere]

And with the Open Golf at Portrush this year it is likely that LDY will benefit from quite an upturn in corporate traffic around the event.

[Fly757X]

And with the Open Golf at Portrush this year it is likely that LDY will benefit from quite an upturn in corporate traffic around the event.

Fan charters aswell will be more prevelant than the Irish Open.

[Fly757X]

Point of notice today:

Emergency exercise on Wednesday between 1700-2200.

G-JOTR also inbound to operate BM1507/08

[BFS BHD]

Good news Times are now loaded in for Summer 2019 at 5 weekly flights. Not bookable at the minute.

[Fly757X]

Good news Times are now loaded in for Summer 2019 at 5 weekly flights. Not bookable at the minute.

Happy days!

[cuthere]

Ouch! 6.30am departure from Edinburgh Saturdays. Still, gives a nice early start and a full day in Edinburgh if going the other way.

[Fly757X]

Ouch! 6.30am departure from Edinburgh Saturdays. Still, gives a nice early start and a full day in Edinburgh if going the other way.

Just wondering did you note the rest of the times before the site went down?

[cuthere]

Mostly evening flights. Arriving LDY at 20.25, departing 20.50. Only checked three or four dates.

[Fly757X]

Mostly evening flights. Arriving LDY at 20.25, departing 20.50. Only checked three or four dates.

Thats great cheers, not bad times but I would like to see how this route would do if it made up the first sectors of the day.

[Fly757X]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1323x193/b27102dca09dbad054cf89f3de7563ca_0956ee7842f43227f58b8e2e1a3 4a2f2e72f20fb.png

S19 schedules so far.

[Facts R Us]

MAN is missing...!

[TartinTon]

You would think that either BM will find a way to operate it without upsetting the PSO agreement or LM will find a way to fit it into their programme before too long.

The long ground time between the STN flights is crying out for some infill PSO or not!

[Cyrano]

The long ground time between the STN flights is crying out for some infill PSO or not!

The question is whether there's a destination from LDY which would reliably generate enough revenue in the middle of the day to cover the direct operating costs of an Embraer. The fact that the available time is in the middle of the day means that there will be relatively little business traffic (and therefore higher fares) - I'd imagine that most business people who want a full day at their destination will have set out in the Belfast direction early in the morning.

I don't have Embraer operating costs to hand but I would guesstimate that the direct operating costs of a one-way sector from LDY to somewhere in the UK would be of the order of £2200-£2700 (not counting aircraft ownership cost, but counting maintenance costs).

So where should the aircraft fly to which can guarantee 30 seats filled on every flight at an average of at least £80 (before APD and airport charges) each way, or 40 seats filled on every flight at £60 or more (before APD and airport charges) each way? (By the way, these are just breakeven numbers - they don't take account of marketing and promotion expenses, for example.)

I've assumed a UK point as the most obvious destination. Of course the aircraft could theoretically go further afield, for example to Paris (no slots in AMS these days). I imagine that'd be a popular leisure destination. But the operating costs for the longer sector will be higher - perhaps £3000+ per sector. Are there really 30 people per flight willing to pay an average of £100 + APD + airport charges per one-way rather than driving down to BFS and hopping on easyJet?

There is a widely known saying that an aircraft is only making money when it's in the air. That's true. But the converse is not true: just because an aircraft is in the air doesn't mean it's making money. VLM in their prime used to do quite well operating morning and evening peak rotations to LCY and leaving many of their F50s parked up during the day at various outstations. I'd be fairly certain that Bmi will have priced up the PSO contract based on the aircraft only being used for STN and on the assumption that it is unused in the middle of the day. I'm sure that in the meantime they will have been pitched options for increasing the LDY aircraft utilisation. The fact that they are not flying anywhere in the middle of day doesn't mean the idea hasn't crossed their mind, just that they have been unable to identify a destination with a reasonable chance of profitability.

[southside bobby]

Was it not the fact that a/c assigned to PSO routes were/are precluded/dissuaded from flying further rotations from the "base" airfield & this was reflected too in the monetary weighting provided by Government for the contract?.

I`m curious too that a prime timing prime destination requires PSO whereas posters seem to be implying here that non prime timing non prime destination can make money!.

[cuthere]

Bobby, FR (with very much lower operating costs/fares) were getting 12-14k pax a month on the STN at peak. I agree that it seems absurd to offer PSO on what has been proven to be a commercially viable route. But it is what it is, and fares reflect the higher operating costs of the EMB.

[TartinTon]

Bobby, FR (with very much lower operating costs/fares) were getting 12-14k pax a month on the STN at peak. I agree that it seems absurd to offer PSO on what has been proven to be a commercially viable route. But it is what it is, and fares reflect the higher operating costs of the EMB.

Where has it been proven that it's commercially viable? Volume is no indicator of profit and the very fact that it's a PSO would seem to indicate quite the opposite. Why would Ryanair stop operating a profitable route? Airline margins tend to be wafer thin and profitable routes tend to be fought for and held on to once won.

[cuthere]

Where is the proof it wasn’t? The fact FR operated it for as long as they did would suggest it was profitable. They’re not renowned for charity routes.

[TartinTon]

Since they are famous for their deal-making with airports it's probably not too far from the mark to suggest that they had a deal and then when it ran out they left.

This would suggest that they are either too bloody-minded to operate a profitable route just because they were no longer getting a subsidy or that the route wasn't viable without it.

As you say, they aren't renowned for their charity routes!

[cuthere]

An almost twenty year deal? That’s how long the LDY-STN route lasted.

[TartinTon]

Given how desperate LDY clearly are, a 20 year deal with FR doesn't sound too far-fetched. Again, if it was that profitable why aren't they still doing it?

FR built their business by specialising in finding desperate airports close enough to metropolitan areas who were prepared to spend vast sums of money to have/keep them flying from/to there as they guaranteed to bring
vast numbers of passengers spending money in the local economies if the price of the airfare was cheap enough. LDY clearly falls into that category.

[cuthere]

BMI are going three daily to/from STN on some days over the Christmas period. There’ll be two each way on Saturdays in the same period. Nice little boost for the airport for a couple of weeks. It’ll be the busiest it’s been for some years.

[Fly757X]

BMI are going three daily to/from STN on some days over the Christmas period. There’ll be two each way on Saturdays in the same period. Nice little boost for the airport for a couple of weeks. It’ll be the busiest it’s been for some years.

Now that they've found a way to get the A/C going on another rotation a day hopefully it will become a permanent feature. They also announced reduced pricing starting at £39 one way.

[BAladdy]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but BM have removed from sale there morning BM1501/BM1502 flights on the 9th, 15th, 17th, 23rd and 29th of January.

[Fly757X]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but BM have removed from sale there morning BM1501/BM1502 flights on the 9th, 15th, 17th, 23rd and 29th of January.



This must be to avoid the PSO issues whereby the aircraft should only be used on a max of 2 returns a day. 5 added, 5 taken off.

[BAladdy]

This must be to avoid the PSO issues whereby the aircraft should only be used on a max of 2 returns a day. 5 added, 5 taken off.
The aircraft doesn’t exceed more than 2 return flights a day for January. It has one return roundtrip on the dates (shown in previous post) in January. Otherwise it only operates 2 x daily Sun-Fri and 1 x daily on a Sat. Same as at present.

[Cyrano]

This must be to avoid the PSO issues whereby the aircraft should only be used on a max of 2 returns a day. 5 added, 5 taken off.
Is there any actual evidence that the PSO imposes this supposed "only-two-returns-per-day" condition, or is that just an urban legend?

[Fly757X]

Fingers being pointed and insults delivered across the Guildhall again over funding for the airport: https://www.derrynow.com/news/money-not-aware-row-erupts-meeting-derrys-council-questions-asked-75000-airline-funding/258850

[Fly757X]

That time of the month again...

CAA stats for October 2018:

LDY movements:

452 (2018) = -11.2%

509 (2017)

Passenger numbers:

12,847 (2018) = 15% Decrease

15,107 (2017)

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 3642 = -52% (Only 3 flights a week during October with Ryanair.)
- LIVERPOOL = 4696 = +39%
- LONDON (STN) = 3826 = -8%
- EDINBURGH = 622 = (NEW)
- NORWICH (CHARTER) = 61



Load Factors:

-GLASGOW = 82(~)%
-LIVERPOOL = 95.6%
-LONDON (STN) = 67%
-EDINBURGH = 82.3%

Glasgow's LF was calculated very roughly. Not a fantastic month however its great to see Liverpool doing well again after it being reduced from 5 weekly a few seasons back. November will be much more telling.

[buzz_hornet]

Flight details:
25JAN19 dep. 1205 arr. 1430
28JAN19 dep. 1530 arr. 1750


Times for the Iceland flights in Jan. Given the price drop I imagine sales are not going well. Had they priced it at current rate it would likely have been more appealing
​​​

[Geolog]

Looks like another cancellation of the 1507/1508 rotation this evening. Finally cancelled at 20.00 - too late for any possible alternates.

[Fly757X]

Looks like another cancellation of the 1507/1508 rotation this evening. Finally cancelled at 20.00 - too late for any possible alternates.

Can't wait to see the potential replacement in the morning... Ironically they're having a 20 seat giveaway tomorrow around the city.

[TartinTon]

Looks like another cancellation of the 1507/1508 rotation this evening. Finally cancelled at 20.00 - too late for any possible alternates.

You make it sound like every other flight is being cancelled. What's the rate of cancellation of BM services?

[cuthere]

The first of several pre-Christmas days when the STN is increased to three each way. I’d suspected they’d struggle, and it appears my suspicion was correct. My cousin tells me the 17.30 is delayed, with limited information being offered.

[cuthere]

Now cancelled #shambles.

[Husky One]

Flybmi are in bad shape. They have over-promised and underdelivered in many areas across their network. Without fundamental change, their future is limited and not bright.

[cuthere]

Flybmi are in bad shape. They have over-promised and underdelivered in many areas across their network. Without fundamental change, their future is limited and not bright.

Husky, from seeing their performance at LDY, to reading about details of their performance on other threads I think you hit the nail on the head. Over-committed. Using flaky equipment (it would seem). Doing work for other airlines and PSO, whilst not having the fleet/crew to do it. Shame, as their inflight service and overall experience is excellent.

[Fly757X]

CAA stats for November 2018:

LDY movements:

432 (2018) = -13.6%

500 (2017)

Passenger numbers:

16,914 (2018) = ~0%

16,891 (2017)

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 970 = -86%
- LIVERPOOL = 5854 = +2%
- LONDON (STN) = 3583 = -14%
- EDINBURGH = 6 483 = -7% (When compared to the former FR7721/7722




Load Factors:

-GLASGOW = 60%
-LIVERPOOL = 91%
-LONDON (STN) = 65%
-EDINBURGH = 78%

[Fly757X]

CoDA has been removed from Thomson's website at the moment (Greyed out, as is BHD). It also seems like it would be logistically impossible to use the usual leased capacity from Dublin next year for PMI (at this stage). So it would seem changed days of operation or no PMI next year. CoDA have also seem to have stopped pushing PMI for next year on their social media feeds.

It's also a shame Balkan Holidays removed LDY from their departure airports earlier this year. (Was supposed to be 6/8 weeks between mid June and end of July on Mondays for S19.)

[scodaman]

CoDA has been removed from Thomson's website at the moment (Greyed out, as is BHD). It also seems like it would be logistically impossible to use the usual leased capacity from Dublin next year for PMI (at this stage). So it would seem changed days of operation or no PMI next year. CoDA have also seem to have stopped pushing PMI for next year on their social media feeds.

It's also a shame Balkan Holidays removed LDY from their departure airports earlier this year. (Was supposed to be 6/8 weeks between mid June and end of July on Mondays for S19.)


Just checked now at time of writing on Thomson site, BFD and BFS both available. LDY still greyed out.

[Fly757X]

Just checked now at time of writing on Thomson site, BFD and BFS both available. LDY still greyed out.

It was listed as "TBA0000" for a while. I know that AlbaStar and Air Europa are doing more work this year in the absence of Cello in the Republic. Maybe we will just have to wait.

Edit: Majorca has been removed from CoDA's website.

[Fly757X]

Loganair's new ER4 (G-SAJC) is listed as starting operations tomorrow into SYY. It's also listed as replacing the SB20 from next week on Sunday nights into LDY.

[scodaman]

Looks like the TUI pullout for 2019 is official.Mark Patterson on BBC Radio Foyle is running a story today on how those who had booked already got notification from TUI that their holiday had been canceled.In fairness they have been rebooked at no extra charge on a Belfast flight the next day and TUI say that it is not specific to Derry - they have canceled several summer 2019 holiday flights across the UK operated by 3rd party airlines due to low demand.

[Fly757X]

Looks like the TUI pullout for 2019 is official.Mark Patterson on BBC Radio Foyle is running a story today on how those who had booked already got notification from TUI that their holiday had been canceled.In fairness they have been rebooked at no extra charge on a Belfast flight the next day and TUI say that it is not specific to Derry - they have canceled several summer 2019 holiday flights across the UK operated by 3rd party airlines due to low demand.

It's a pity, maybe S20 will see a return to in-house W-Sectors from either Germany or the Mainland.

[Fly757X]

More mention of this mystical funding pot from the council:

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/232k-in-air-marketing-pot-after-sum-drawn-to-promote-loganair-1-8772383

[Fly757X]

CAA stats for December 2018:

LDY movements:

363 (2018) = +3.42%

351 (2017)

Passenger numbers:

16,239 (2018) = +6%

15,387 (2017)

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 1055 = -83%
- LIVERPOOL = 5124 = -6%
- LONDON (STN) = 3840 = +1%
- EDINBURGH = 6 261 = (NEW)

Load Factors:

-GLASGOW = 65%
-LIVERPOOL = 80%
-LONDON (STN) = 66%
-EDINBURGH = 79%

Year end Passenger Number: ~185843 (-8.4%)

Average Load Factor: 78.6%

[cuthere]

Cheers for the figures. Looks like Edinburgh is off to a solid enough start. LM and BM LFs are pretty good, too. Naturally, no way of knowing yield, but still. Decent.

[El Bunto]

Titan A321 operating to Iceland this morning for the Superbreak holiday

Update: it was G-POWN

[GAZMO]

Anyone know the numbers on board. A321 seems quite a large aircraft as last time a charter departed from LDY to Iceland the numbers were rather small??

[cuthere]

There hasn’t been a charter from LDY to Iceland before.

[Fly757X]

There hasn’t been a charter from LDY to Iceland before.

Probabaly in reference to Seville last year. I’ve heard loads this time are excellent.

[cuthere]

Seville/Iceland, Iceland/Seville. I see the similarities!

Good to hear re: loads.

[virginblue]

CAA stats for December 2018:

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 1055 = -83%
- EDINBURGH = 6 261 = (NEW)



Interesting.. Edinburgh generated almost exactly as many passengers in December 2018 as Glasgow in December 2017 (if my calculator works properly, GLA was 6.206, EDI now is 6.261). So overall traffic to Scotland has increased by 1.000 pax.

[cuthere]

Huge diaspora in the Central Belt, as well as a lot of travel for football. It’s also noticeable, certainly around Christmas, the number of Scottish accents in Derry’s pubs and restaurants, so it seems to be two-way demand, which is great to see.

[owenc]

Is it? I see way more English people in Derry and Northern Ireland than Scots.

scots don’t come here.

[cuthere]

Good for you Owen. Good for you. I am speaking from my experience as someone who is old enough to go to the pub, and lives in Derry. No idea why there are so many English in Limavady.

[Fly757X]

Loganair have changed their S19 schedule to 6 weekly (previously down from 8) and changed the type during the week to the SF34. The ERJ stays on the weekend flights.

BMI times have also been slightly altered, BM1507 departs at 1725 everyday and BM1501 is 0705 everyday except for Friday where it is 0720.

[Fly757X]

CAA stats for December 2018:

LDY movements:

363 (2018) = +3.42%

351 (2017)

Passenger numbers:

16,239 (2018) = +6%

15,387 (2017)

Passengers per route:

- GLASGOW = 1055 = -83%
- LIVERPOOL = 5124 = -6%
- LONDON (STN) = 3840 = +1%
- EDINBURGH = 6 261 = (NEW)

Load Factors:

-GLASGOW = 65%
-LIVERPOOL = 80%
-LONDON (STN) = 66%
-EDINBURGH = 79%

Year end Passenger Number: ~185843 (-8.4%)

Average Load Factor: 78.6%

Year end movements:

6330 (2018) 22.8% Increase

5156 (2017)

[buzz_hornet]

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/new-derry-to-manchester-route-to-be-signed-off-within-weeks-1-8789040?fbclid=IwAR05Q6na2n2u2rzmhpot3bGZaRdV8Ub9mcEjdjjjHTa VriYnoR8YZBSW-tQ



Manchester with BMI

[cuthere]

Superb news!

[Fly757X]

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/new-derry-to-manchester-route-to-be-signed-off-within-weeks-1-8789040?fbclid=IwAR05Q6na2n2u2rzmhpot3bGZaRdV8Ub9mcEjdjjjHTa VriYnoR8YZBSW-tQ



Manchester with BMI

Personally would’ve liked to have seen BHX. Will be interesting to see if it impacts LPL much however with its dismal frequencies at the minute it might work out fine. I personally thought EDI/GLA would kill each other off... Not yet anyway! Great news to hear!

[cuthere]

As BMI have a large presence at BRS, and LDY has no connections in the southwest, will they look at there too?

[Amelia Earhart]

LDY will again have 5 domestic routes (STN, GLA, EDI, LPL, MAN) which is the most it previously ever simultaneously had (STN, LPL PIK, BRS, BHX).

The PSO seems to have been amended to allow the aircraft to do the MAN route between the STN flights. Could BHX not have been squeezed in to?

What chances of BHX now if not using the PSO aircraft?

[cuthere]

They have a roughly five hour window between 11am and 4pm where they could utilise the aircraft (crew permitting), so squeezing in another route may be challenging. Unless they amend the times of the STN flights, it doesn’t look possible.

[Fly757X]

They have a roughly five hour window between 11am and 4pm where they could utilise the aircraft (crew permitting), so squeezing in another route may be challenging. Unless they amend the times of the STN flights, it doesn’t look possible.

Should actually be closer to 5 O’Clock as seen on a Sunday.

[cuthere]

You think they’re going to schedule a 30 minute turnaround on a daily basis? Even with that, it’d be very difficult to add an additional return flight to BHX.

[Fly757X]

You think they’re going to schedule a 30 minute turnaround on a daily basis? Even with that, it’d be very difficult to add an additional return flight to BHX.

STN could end up going earlier like it did in S17? Push it to 40mins?

[cuthere]

Well, I’m all for additional routes, so whatever it takes!

[Amelia Earhart]

Was there not the demand for a 3rd rotation to Stansted? At one stage there used to be 150K pax p.a. on the STN route. There is currently about 50K pax. A 3rd rotation could have increased that to 75K which is similar to the number carried by Ryanair after they reduced Stansted to one rotation.

I have to confess I have had to fly from BFS as the times from LDY did not suit. An extra rotation would have made the difference.

MAN and BHX could have been added on another plane. Of course that would depend on BMI regional having an available plane.....

[Fly757X]

Was there not the demand for a 3rd rotation to Stansted? At one stage there used to be 150K pax p.a. on the STN route. There is currently about 50K pax. A 3rd rotation could have increased that to 75K which is similar to the number carried by Ryanair after they reduced Stansted to one rotation.

I have to confess I have had to fly from BFS as the times from LDY did not suit. An extra rotation would have made the difference.

MAN and BHX could have been added on another plane. Of course that would depend on BMI regional having an available plane.....

With BMI shearing away at their fleet at the minute this will be unlikely until these fantasy E-Jets or CRJs arrive so that the ERJs can be redeployed...


Anyway, next for the airport that they've got their beloved Manchester... Dublin/Birmingham? Dublin obviously would require daily UK customs at CoDA.Also, it will be interesting to see where they take these "talks with other carriers" in regards to sun routes. I personally see Balkan Holidays to Burgas as a reasonable target and one that has been proven in the past. (Derry was listed on their site for S19 a while back)

[Amelia Earhart]

Obviously reinstating a Birmingham flight is the next big target for LDY but I note that LDY flew 50K more passengers to Liverpool last year than BHD did.

BHD doesn't have Bristol or Newcastle routes either.

LDY did formerly have 40K pax p.a. to BRS but has never had a route to Newcastle.

Both Newcastle and Bristol airports have more passengers than Liverpool airport.

However even if LDY got these three routes its passenger numbers would not exceed the peak of 2008 as it lacks the frequency on the routes that the other two airports have.

[Amelia Earhart]

There were the usual complaints and calls for the airport to be closed after the striking of the new rate by Derry City and Strabane council.

The airport is expected to need the usual £2 million subsidy this year. (For comparison, this is less than street sweeping, something that is entirely unnecessary if people would simply use what few litter bins there are.)

However Altnagelvin hospital also costs money, should it be closed?

It's a while since the fire brigade turned a profit, shut them down!

The roads need an annual subsidy via road tax for each car, block them off!

Northern Irish Railways are subsidised, mothball the lines they failed to in the 1960s!

The social security offices are just handing out money, lock the doors!

In fact the only part of the public sector making a profit is the tax office. Leave it open. Oh, too late, they've all been closed and moved to Belfast already.

[NorthernCounties]

There were the usual complaints and calls for the airport to be closed after the striking of the new rate by Derry City and Strabane council.

The airport is expected to need the usual £2 million subsidy this year. (For comparison, this is less than street sweeping, something that is entirely unnecessary if people would simply use what few litter bins there are.)

However Altnagelvin hospital also costs money, should it be closed?

It's a while since the fire brigade turned a profit, shut them down!

The roads need an annual subsidy via road tax for each car, block them off!

Northern Irish Railways are subsidised, mothball the lines they failed to in the 1960s!

The social security offices are just handing out money, lock the doors!

In fact the only part of the public sector making a profit is the tax office. Leave it open. Oh, too late, they've all been closed and moved to Belfast already.

Wonderfully put - I really don't understand the obsession in the UK that requires public transport to turn a profit.Public transport provides infinite non-tangible benefits to a nation.

[FFMAN]

the airport that they've got their beloved Manchester...

Wow. Anyone reading this would wonder why bother with CODA at all if that's the attitude. So you personally would have preferred a BHX service - that's not how it works.

1. How many of those 50k LPL pax are going to the Manchester area anyway - a good few I reckon.
2. How many in the CODA catchment area head down the road to BFS to get one of the RYR or EZY flights to MAN - again a good few.
3. The MAN catchment area is significantly larger than BHX despite the close presence of LPL and LBA - that is why MAN is two and a half to three times the sixe of BHX - it's not an accident.
4. Let's say the point to point traffic is similar LDY-MAN/BHX...you'd still go for MAN every time because of its huge network v/v BHX or even STN. With the right marketing agreements and ticketing deals it should be possible to book and fly routes such as LDY - HKG / SIN / BOM etc etc all through MAN. With the best will in the world you'll never get that at BHX. Therefore the economic value of a MAN route to the Derry region is significantly greater than a BHX route. Maybe that's why it is 'beloverd'.

[FFMAN]

There were the usual complaints and calls for the airport to be closed after the striking of the new rate by Derry City and Strabane council.

The airport is expected to need the usual £2 million subsidy this year. (For comparison, this is less than street sweeping, something that is entirely unnecessary if people would simply use what few litter bins there are.)

However Altnagelvin hospital also costs money, should it be closed?

It's a while since the fire brigade turned a profit, shut them down!

The roads need an annual subsidy via road tax for each car, block them off!

Northern Irish Railways are subsidised, mothball the lines they failed to in the 1960s!

The social security offices are just handing out money, lock the doors!

In fact the only part of the public sector making a profit is the tax office. Leave it open. Oh, too late, they've all been closed and moved to Belfast already.

Wonderful!
Made me laugh

[Fly757X]

Wow. Anyone reading this would wonder why bother with CODA at all if that's the attitude. So you personally would have preferred a BHX service - that's not how it works.

1. How many of those 50k LPL pax are going to the Manchester area anyway - a good few I reckon.
2. How many in the CODA catchment area head down the road to BFS to get one of the RYR or EZY flights to MAN - again a good few.
3. The MAN catchment area is significantly larger than BHX despite the close presence of LPL and LBA - that is why MAN is two and a half to three times the sixe of BHX - it's not an accident.
4. Let's say the point to point traffic is similar LDY-MAN/BHX...you'd still go for MAN every time because of its huge network v/v BHX or even STN. With the right marketing agreements and ticketing deals it should be possible to book and fly routes such as LDY - HKG / SIN / BOM etc etc all through MAN. With the best will in the world you'll never get that at BHX. Therefore the economic value of a MAN route to the Derry region is significantly greater than a BHX route. Maybe that's why it is 'beloverd'.

Personally I would’ve preferred Manchester however, considering how miserable the last attempt at it was it really has suprised me that they’ve got it back. Services to the Midlands from CoDA have always been seen as the wiser choice, operated for around 10 years (switched from EMA to BHX) I’ve heard from many locally that BHX is very much the preferred option out of those two. Not to say Manchester isn’t, it would be very close but I’ll be interested to see how it will run along side LPL.

[Fly757X]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-transport-secretary-continues-to-fund-direct-flights-between-city-of-derry-airport-and-london

[Alteagod]

Good news for a change for NI Aviation.

[cuthere]

Hopefully confirmation of MAN will follow.

[cuthere]

Strong rumours that flybmi have collapsed. Desperately sad for their staff if true. From a wholly selfish perspective, where does this leave LDY’s PSO? (All rumour at the minute)

[DonTrumpet2020]

Their website says the company has collapsed.

[Amelia Earhart]

It's no longer a rumour........

[Fly757X]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/544x196/08150cce1b4032ee083fd3b66e7dc7fa_8c9c7afe51122d2357cba307240 5d370e90a1d70.png
Pretty sorry sight for S19 with the amount of rotations that have been lost after them previously running or being announced earlier. STN should be spared as it is a PSO however I'm unsure as to how.

[Alteagod]

I suppose they just re tender the pso but still sad news for all the staff involved

[GAZMO]

Sad day
From BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47267901

[Amelia Earhart]

Loganair are back operating at the airport. Could they pick up the PSO?

They currently operate the Stansted PSO from Dundee.

[jmdavies86]

Loganair are back operating at the airport. Could they pick up the PSO?

They currently operate the STN-DND route under PSO, so it would seem logical for them to consider taking on the STN-LDY route as well.

[owenc]

It needs to be on a 737 or similar with two daily. BMI was too small with expensive fares! Unrealistic and unpalatable.

[jmdavies86]

It needs to be on a 737 or similar with two daily. BMI was too small with expensive fares! Unrealistic and unpalatable.

185,843 passengers used the airport in 2018, a 58% reduction since its peak in 2008, and the airport's lowest passenger figures since 2000. [According to the City of Derry Airport page on Wikipedia]

EZY/FR might be able to make it work as they already have substantial bases at STN, but based on the above data, is there really enough demand to fill a B737/A319?

[cuthere]

Unrealistic and unpalatable

Nobody forced you to use them, though I do wonder how it was unpalatable. I thought the pseudo-business class would have pleased you. As for 737 operators, who have you in mind?

[Amelia Earhart]

Ryanair lol?

[Fly757X]

Smaller regional operator it will be. You will almost never find an aircraft over 120 seats operating a PSO.

[TartinTon]

I suspect this will be seconded across to Loganair who will probably benefit most from their sister companies demise at least in terms of the opportunity to expand and take over warm/hot markets

[Fly757X]

I suspect this will be seconded across to Loganair who will probably benefit most from their sister companies demise at least in terms of the opportunity to expand and take over warm/hot markets

Wonder will it hand the SAAB 2000s a little longer in the meantime or will we see for ER3/4s going across earlier...

[jmdavies86]

Smaller regional operating it will be. You will almost never find an aircraft over 120 seats operating a PSO.

The only other suitable regional operators [with PSO experience] would be Flybe or Loganair.

Seeing as BE are transferring their LGW-NQY flights over to LHR from 31st March and have sold their LGW slots to Vueling, a LGW-LDY route is pretty much out of the question, plus I highly doubt that LHR-LDY could be operated on a twice-daily basis due to a lack of slots. My bet is that Loganair will more than likely take it over out of STN and will use either a Saab 340 or ERJ135.

[TartinTon]

The jets are all owned by the same company, AIL, so I suspect that unless they've managed to sell them as a job lot quite a few will transition over

[Fly757X]

The jets are all owned by the same company, AIL, so I suspect that unless they've managed to sell them as a job lot quite a few will transition over

I’ve heard conflicting reports on what ones are owned. I know for certain G-EMBI/J/N are leased of course but the rest I’ve heard all sorts of stuff.

[jamessh]

It would make most sense for Loganair to take the route. However I think a Saab 340/ERJ135 is way to small for the route. With these small planes the per pax cost is extremely high. I would like to see eastern with an E175 operate it but I doubt eastern will be around for much longer. As things stand at the moment a Saab 2000 from Loganair seems the best option. I fully believe there is enough demand for 150k pax a year. I think the reason passenger numbers are down on the route is due to small aircraft and higher fares. Because of this CODA has lost it’s price conscious leisure market.

[Fly757X]

It would make most sense for Loganair to take the route. However I think a Saab 340/ERJ135 is way to small for the route. With these small planes the per pax cost is extremely high. I would like to see eastern with an E175 operate it but I doubt eastern will be around for much longer. As things stand at the moment a Saab 2000 from Loganair seems the best option. I fully believe there is enough demand for 150k pax a year. I think the reason passenger numbers are down on the route is due to small aircraft and higher fares. Because of this CODA has lost it’s price conscious leisure market.

Loganair we're due to get more of BMI's ER3/4s so if they go through maybe we could see one deployed here...

Eastern have got rid of their E170s, plus I would highly doubt we would've seen them here anyway, they do still have their ER4s however, but again I don't know how long that can be sustained, plus they've recently been deployed on more sectors from ABZ.

[mmeteesside]

It would make most sense for Loganair to take the route. However I think a Saab 340/ERJ135 is way to small for the route. With these small planes the per pax cost is extremely high. I would like to see eastern with an E175 operate it but I doubt eastern will be around for much longer. As things stand at the moment a Saab 2000 from Loganair seems the best option. I fully believe there is enough demand for 150k pax a year. I think the reason passenger numbers are down on the route is due to small aircraft and higher fares. Because of this CODA has lost it’s price conscious leisure market.

The whole point is it's not a commercially viable route hence fares will be high... without the funding then fares would be even higher.

[SWBKCB]

What's the process for re-allocating the PSO - can it just be awarded to a suitable candidate, or does it need to be re-tendered?

[jamessh]

Loganair we're due to get more of BMI's ER3/4s so if they go through maybe we could see one deployed here...

Eastern have got rid of their E170s, plus I would highly doubt we would've seen them here anyway, they do still have their ER4s however, but again I don't know how long that can be sustained, plus they've recently been deployed on more sectors from ABZ.

aha I don’t realise eastern has got chucked their E170’s. Who do you see operating the route?

[cumbrianboy]

Stobart on an EJET would be a good compromise. Decent capacity and lean cost base would give competitive fares

[Fly757X]

Stobart on an EJET would be a good compromise. Decent capacity and lean cost base would give competitive fares

That's who I would've seen as a good option other than Loganair, however with LDY's persistence in STN would SEN be a good enough compromise in the short term?

[jamessh]

That's who I would've seen as a good option other than Loganair, however with LDY's persistence in STN would SEN be a good enough compromise in the short term?

I completely agree with both of you. However I don’t see Southend as convenient at all. I hope if they were to take the route they’d stick with Stansted. Maybe even use Luton or Gatwick. An E195 would be ideal for the route however even an ATR would suffice short term.

[owenc]

The small size of the aircraft and the price was a problem for me. If they're just going to bring in another small aircraft, with similar £120 return fares, they may as well can the route.

[owenc]

185,843 passengers used the airport in 2018, a 58% reduction since its peak in 2008, and the airport's lowest passenger figures since 2000. [According to the City of Derry Airport page on Wikipedia]

EZY/FR might be able to make it work as they already have substantial bases at STN, but based on the above data, is there really enough demand to fill a B737/A319?
Well, Ryanair used to operate a 2 daily 737, following the removal of that, the airport lost passengers. You can see this now, where passengers to Stansted are only 54,000 - that statistic was near 150,000 at one point. So, clearly people aren't fussed on Bmi-regional's offering.

[rog747]

I completely agree with both of you. However I don’t see Southend as convenient at all. I hope if they were to take the route they’d stick with Stansted. Maybe even use Luton or Gatwick. An E195 would be ideal for the route however even an ATR would suffice short term.

Nothing wrong with flying in and out of SEN - great little airport, much nicer experience and a direct train to London (same as STN) which stops at West ham a Jubilee Line interchange so you dont have to go into the City

[owenc]

It's a fairly small airport and doesn't have Stansted Express type services.

[Fly757X]

LY-DAT (AT45) doing LM209/210 tonight as G-SAJC has been committed to the former BMI Airbus Contract from Exeter.

[Fly757X]

Personally after the further Loganair announcements today I believe it will be them, sounds like they're going to tap into BMI's fleet further than the 4 that they we're initially getting too so hopefully we should see a bigger presence from them in the future.

[cuthere]

Agreed Fly757X. They’re taking on routes from both Aberdeen and Newcastle. Makes sense they’d take on the PSO. Now, if only they could find a 737....

[Fly757X]

Agreed Fly757X. They’re taking on routes from both Aberdeen and Newcastle. Makes sense they’d take on the PSO. Now, if only they could find a 737....

That will never happen, nor would it be logical for the airline I'm afraid, I personally think the biggest Loganair will ever go is maybe an AT76 (after they get their AT45/6s) on their trunk routes (INV-MAN) etc.

[cuthere]

That will never happen, nor would it be logical for the airline I'm afraid, I personally think the biggest Loganair will ever go is maybe an AT76 (after they get their AT45/6s) on their trunk routes (INV-MAN) etc.

i wasn’t being entirely (read: remotely) serious.

AirportPlanner1. I found the transfer really easy. If there were any flights from NI to SEN, I for one would happily use them.

[Fly757X]

i wasn’t being entirely (read: remotely) serious.

AirportPlanner1. I found the transfer really easy. If there were any flights from NI to SEN, I for one would happily use them.

Sorry if I came off as harsh back there, tough few weeks for me leaving me with little humour at the present time.

[SWBKCB]

The small size of the aircraft and the price was a problem for me. If they're just going to bring in another small aircraft, with similar £120 return fares, they may as well can the route.

Ownec - are you suggesting £120 is a lot to fly LDY-STN and return??

[cuthere]

Not at all Fly757 - you’re grand. One of the few sane voices on these forums.

SWBKCB - take Owen with the pinch of salt he deserves. I’ve never settled on whether he’s a world class troll, or a fifteen year old.

[owenc]

Ownec - are you suggesting £120 is a lot to fly LDY-STN and return??
It's not a reasonable price, no. I flew from Derry to Stansted, monthly from 2015-2017. Fares were always around £40-£60 return. I now fly from Belfast on Ryanair/Easyjet and a similar range of £40-£70 applies.

BMI regional often charge £100-£180, for a return flight booked weeks in advance. I have never seen a return flight under £90 on their site.

I just booked a one way flight on British Airways, with an Emergency Exit row at short notice for £80. BMI regional does not offer a superior product, so there is no justification in the prices that they charge, with a government subsidy.

[Fly757X]

I wonder where this leaves this "announced" Manchester route, surely if it was Loganair they would look into it too? I do wonder whether this could be a blessing in disguise (for the airport) again however unlike the announcement of cessation of GLA with Ryanair last year... I don't see many positives to be grabbed at here.

Again I feel a great deal of sympathy for the local crew here. I know that a few of them are from far flung places and I was introduced to one of the local line Engineers for a time recently, (who will remain nameless of course.) It couldn't have happened to nicer and more accommodating people if I'm honest and I wish them all the best in the future, hopefully they will stay close by.

[virginblue]

BMI regional does not offer a superior product, so there is no justification in the prices that they charge, with a government subsidy.

The superior product is that you can fly from LDY.

How do you get to Belfast for free - getting beamed there by supernatural powers? Is there no monetary value linked to the time you waste having to go to Belfast instead of departing from your doorstep?

[scodaman]

Myself wife and daughter where due to do LDY-STN-LDY this coming Thursday and back Sunday.

Thankfully managed to get Easyjet flights from BFS-STN and they actually came in more expensive than the Flybmi prices plus we have to add in parking for approx £50 and a stay in the Maldron as its an early morning departure. The whole shenanigans has added around £150 to the cost. I don't know how Ryanair are getting away with their BFS prices, bordering on extortion at the moment.

There is no doubt that for the leisure foot passenger the Flybmi LDY product was expensive most of the times but not all the times. I used to monitor the prices and quite often when you factored in the Airporter and/or parking in BFS the Flybmi was around the same as BFS.

But with suitcases even cheaper prices could be had. For the last 2 summers we've flown on Jet2 holidays from Stansted. The same holidays where available from BFS with Jet2. It was actually cheaper for us to fly to STN from LDY with Flybmi, stay in Raddison Stansted hotel for 1 night and then off to Faro/Malta for the holiday rather than booking the holiday with Jet2 from Belfast. No joke, on each holiday I saved around £450.

I was planning to do the same this year but that looks like a non starter.

Overall Flybmi will be missed. I feel really bad for the staff. Can't recall his name but there was a fella from Strabane who was a steward on the little E-145 jet, he used to work for Ryanair and then moved to Flybmi when they started from Derry, he was a gentlemen and was a credit to the airline.

[southside bobby]

Anyways...

As would be expected Loganair has expressed its interest to operate over the LDY/STN PSO service.

A source close to talks has claimed Loganair "was in advanced discussions about STN".

[AirportPlanner1]

Indeed. Apologies for straying off topic, but I will always call out BS. Anyway. Hopefully the swift actions of the council as well as government appetite to provide funding, will mean a LON route is reinstated sooner rather than later. I doubt slots are an issue at STN, so hopefully that won’t prove to be an stumbling block.

Actually slots are an issue at STN but unless someone has swooped to purchase in last 48 hours (are they BMIR’s anyway?) a new operator could probably fly the same schedule.

[Fly757X]

Anyways...

As would be expected Loganair has expressed its interest to operate over the LDY/STN PSO service.

A source close to talks has claimed Loganair "was in advanced discussions about STN".

Hopefully with Loganair MAN can be spared over time too due to their presence there already.

[Fly757X]

A number of airlines... announcement to be made in the next few days... Strap in folks!

[SealinkBF]

Myself wife and daughter where due to do LDY-STN-LDY this coming Thursday and back Sunday.

Thankfully managed to get Easyjet flights from BFS-STN and they actually came in more expensive than the Flybmi prices plus we have to add in parking for approx £50 and a stay in the Maldron as its an early morning departure. The whole shenanigans has added around £150 to the cost. I don't know how Ryanair are getting away with their BFS prices, bordering on extortion at the moment.

Overall Flybmi will be missed. I feel really bad for the staff. Can't recall his name but there was a fella from Strabane who was a steward on the little E-145 jet, he used to work for Ryanair and then moved to Flybmi when they started from Derry, he was a gentlemen and was a credit to the airline.

I know who you mean. Was fantastic, was on a day return flight I booked last year (£92) to sample BMI Regional.

[Husky One]

Logan is owned by the same bunch that own Flybmi. What a remarkable coincidence. They’re already ‘looking’ crew for LDY. The real losers are the Flybmi advance bookers who will pay twice for the same product.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Will DOT not have to re-tender the PSO again? Loganair could be an intern operator but I suspect bigger players might be interested.

[Husky One]

If the airport has any sense they will look for a new operator in the longer term but in the short term Logan would be in a position to get it running very quickly. Not sure who the bigger players would be. Everyone will say they’re interested but that’s just a cheap way of getting a few media hits. Ryan will always be interested if you line their pockets with enough silver, Easyjet are convinced this just distracts them from BFS operations, Stobart will be interested but probably to run it through Southend. It’s a regional turboprop gig at best. No place for the 100+ seaters.

[virginblue]

Will DOT not have to re-tender the PSO again? Loganair could be an intern operator but I suspect bigger players might be interested.

Who for example? And what did stop them from tendering the last time when flybmi was awarded the route?

[cuthere]

Whilst I agree that EZY would be loathe to dilute their BFS ops, they have complained in the recent past that BFS is at capacity (wrt the terminal). Essentially being paid to do STN from LDY may just about prove an attractive addition in that context. Add the brand recognition locally (something Flybmi didn’t really have), and it could work.

I doubt it mind, but one never knows.

[virginblue]

Don't PSO services come with some serious operational constraints stipulated in the contract that are quite impractical for LCCs (e.g. where the aircraft has to be based, what and what not it is allowed to do in-between flights etc.)?

[cuthere]

Yeah, that was the case previously. The most recent PSO allowed for the aircraft to be utilised at other times. Hence the intention from Flybmi to have introduced MAN this summer.

[virginblue]

But I doubt the contract would allow an eight sector operation with the aircraft doing flights from its base at STN, LTN or LGW to other destinations ...

[cuthere]

The PSO extension awarded last week had the following permitted within it:

LDY-STN-LDY-MAN-LDY-STN-LDY.

That was the plan at any rate.

[virginblue]

Sure. But easyJet, for example, would only be interested in something like STN-LDY-STN-XXX-STN-XXX-STN-LDY-STN (and the "XXX" probably destinations rather far away on the continent give the short sector time for the LDY rotations). That is, of course, unless they get enough money from the public that they will happily ruin the utilization of the aircraft.

Is a requirement in the tender (could not find it on the internet) that, for example, standard luggage must be included in the air fare? Or any other "frills"?

[cuthere]

Those are questions I don’t know the answers to.

[Fly757X]

Sure. But easyJet, for example, would only be interested in something like STN-LDY-STN-XXX-STN-XXX-STN-LDY-STN (and the "XXX" probably destinations rather far away on the continent give the short sector time for the LDY rotations). That is, of course, unless they get enough money from the public that they will happily ruin the utilization of the aircraft.

Is a requirement in the tender (could not find it on the internet) that, for example, standard luggage must be included in the air fare? Or any other "frills"?

I'm pretty sure I heard that the first time it was tendered it had to be a full service carrier. (Could be wrong)

[SWBKCB]

The PSO is there to support economic activity - I know times are changing, but how muchy inward investment arrives on a RYR 737?

[buzz_hornet]

I'm pretty sure I heard that the first time it was tendered it had to be a full service carrier. (Could be wrong)


The initial tender was between FLYBMI and Stobart. From memory the main request was for it to be a jet aircraft

[scodaman]

Looks like Loganair may be getting Derry - STN flights.

Link below borrowed from Loganair thread, they've released a pilot recruitment pdf in which they say they are taking over flights from Flybmi and state they have a 'base' in Derry.

https://www.loganair.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Pilot_bm_lm_info-pack1.pdf

[owenc]

Disappointing if true. Looks like I will continue flying from Belfast.

[chuboy]

I've never been disappointed flying with Loganair. Jets aren't fast enough to negate the extra driving.

Routes from regional airports like LDY are very much use it or lose it. Sounds like you are happy to lose it.

[Fly757X]

If Loganair does ring true I’ll be very happy with it, good value in my opinion and will revolve around a near identical operation here.

[BFS watcher]

Google Maps distance from Foyleside Shopping Centre to BFS (58.7miles) and to BHD (74.8miles)
39 Airporter bus services a day from Londonderry to BFS/BHD
London services 22nd February

BHD-LHR British Airways x4
BHD-LHR Aer Lingus x3
BHD-LCY Flybe x6
BFS-STN Ryanair x3
BFS-STN Easyjet x6
BFS-LTN Easyjet x4
BFS-LGW Easyjet x7

Total 33

Yes folks 33 flights a day to London from Belfast, a superb privately run bus service linking the walled city with BFS and BHD, yet the folk West of the Bann get a massive bung from Government to keep
a service with less than 100 seats a day! Yet no Toronto, New York, Frankfurt, Munich, Copenhagen or Middle East Hub! Surely
better to spend the money on getting these services or better still drop APD so Ryanair could come back to LDY and give the Derry punters what they want. A good cheap reliable service.

Tin hat on awaiting incoming

[cuthere]

Airporter is indeed a local success story. The management at BFS could learn a thing or two from them. I do have two minor gripes about their offering: 1) their buses are tiny, and 2) £30 rtn is a bit steep.

Anyway. LDY serves a broader catchment than the city of Derry. A lot of users come from Donegal. And, as I’m sure you’re aware from your frequent trips to Derry, the road remains a disgrace, regardless of what Google suggests. BHD is likely a lot handier to access for the majority of the population of Belfast. Should we close Aldergrove as a result?

[BFS watcher]

Airporter is indeed a local success story. The management at BFS could learn a thing or two from them. I do have two minor gripes about their offering: 1) their buses are tiny, and 2) £30 rtn is a bit steep.

Anyway. LDY serves a broader catchment than the city of Derry. A lot of users come from Donegal. And, as I’m sure you’re aware from your frequent trips to Derry, the road remains a disgrace, regardless of what Google suggests. BHD is likely a lot handier to access for the majority of the population of Belfast. Should we close Aldergrove as a result?
Both BHD and BFS are privately run and don't depend on the government or ratepayers to subsidise them.

Amazing how many people commute on that road every day and that the Airporter service runs to schedule despite it being a cart track
Last time I looked Donegal was not part of Northern Ireland nor where those working there UK taxpayers! This is UK government money, if Mr Varadker would like to contribute maybe he could
ask Pascal to cough up a share of the £2.5 million subsidy.

[scodaman]

The latest.

Stobart and Loganair interested.

Flybe and Are Lingus are aware but not saying much.

Easyjet or Ryanair looks like a non-starter.

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/stobart-and-loganair-interested-in-derry-pso-route-aer-lingus-and-flybe-demur-easyjet-has-no-immediate-plans-1-8816462?fbclid=IwAR2qlcPdgenp2xTuRCnr7SeFDJNrSFb6ImWvL0YDmVt cSCEOo7q-ACyMJ8E

[cuthere]

Thanks for that. I could’ve written your reply for you, it was so predictable. Why can’t people just recognise and accept, without blame or malice, that the A5 is a substandard carriageway between NI’s two largest cities? That’s before we address the fact that the southern government and Donegal CC have, in the past, provided funding for CoDA. As a slight detour, Airporter schedule 90 minutes to do 58.7 miles. An amazing 39.1mph.


We can round and round and round in circles all we like. CoDA is, at least in the short-term staying open. Perhaps if you and others expended as much energy in encouraging improvements at BFS as you do at denigrating LDY, then less “U.K. taxpayers” would be off to Dublin for their flights.

[scodaman]

Perhaps if you and others expended as much energy in encouraging improvements at BFS as you do at denigrating LDY, then less “U.K. taxpayers” would be off to Dublin for their flights.

Boom! 100%

[owenc]

Belfast airports are subsidised by the population of Northern Ireland. Let’s not forget that Belfast people.

:=

[Startledgrapefruit]

Belfast airports are subsidised by the population of Northern Ireland. Let’s not forget that Belfast people.

:=
Explain ?
Never thought they were subsidized

[BAladdy]

Yeah, that was the case previously. The most recent PSO allowed for the aircraft to be utilised at other times. Hence the intention from Flybmi to have introduced MAN this summer.
If Loganair are awarded the contract, then it wouldn’t surprise me if they decide not to go ahead with a new route to MAN and instead decide to use the aircraft to operate LDY-STN-LDY-GLA-LDY-STN-LDY.

[Fly757X]

If Loganair are awarded the contract, then it wouldn’t surprise me if they decide not to go ahead with a new route to MAN and instead decide to use the aircraft to operate LDY-STN-LDY-GLA-LDY-STN-LDY.

I personally doubt they would do that, MAN is a very important destination for Loganair, even till today. Also the fact that they’re establishing a base here to obviously continue a route, but I doubt they would see it as a way to free up capacity at GLA.

[owenc]

Explain ?
Never thought they were subsidized
we bring in the money.

[kildress]

Cuthere, surely it is the A6 not the A5 that links NI's two largest cities.
Owenc, do we not patronise by our custom the two Belfast airports, rather than subsidise?

[cuthere]

kildress, spot on. Typo on my behalf.

[BHD2BFS]

Moving away from Belfast airports/ roads. I think this could all be good News for LDY, with new bases coming online including EMA and BRS Loganair could make something of LDY. yes many will say never going to happen but think about it logically.
GLA is already proving popular.
STN is funded and clear demand
MAN is a huge airport and already had 3 Belfast airlines operating to it and Loganair has plenty of codeshares unlike EZY and FR and if things go ahead with VS/BE you will no doubt see a reduction in frequency to MAN however it may be on slightly larger aircraft than the dash
EMA has up to 4 daily flight from BHD with strong load factors and I’m sure pull passengers in from the north
BRS again a very strong route for EZY with very good loads
EMA/BRS to become new bases which may be able to slot LDY into the schedule
or possible 2 based aircraft at LDY doing all the above routes

[Husky One]

There’s a point being missed here. Flybmi and Loganair have the same dna. Assets were transferred to Loganair so they could wind up Flybmi without leaving anything for creditors. Loganair then take up the profitable carcass structure. The emphasis on profitable. Perhaps if they can get away with it the STN will go to a Saab 2000 which might cover GLA but if a 135/45 that’s unlikely. Manchester is another matter. It wasn’t a developed route and I’m not seeing Loganair taking any leaps of faith on the old Bmi stuff. Logan management aren’t bad so if there’s feasibility they will look at it in time. Just a pity the group owners are a bunch of sharks.

[dsandson]

Husky One, I'm pretty sure when BMI Regional was bought from British Airways that the owned aircraft were sold and leased back to the owners, now morphed in AIL, in exchange for a cash injection. So the emb jets are owned, but probably not an asset of flyBMI. So its in AIL's interest to place those aircraft with Loganair so they're still earning their keep.

Also Loganair I beleive have been saying that the emb145s are cheaper to run when maintenance is factored in, than the Saab 2000s. If the flyBMI crew take up Loganair's offer of employment then they could back up and running quickly.

The Loganair thread noted that Loganair were paying for flyBMI's HR dept to continue the training records service allowing ex staff to get their records to another employer, which would help that transfer of staff.

[Husky One]

AIL leasing is owned by the Bond group. Bond group own Flybmi and Loganair. It’s pretty obvious the aircraft were going to end up in Loganair. I’d wager that Flybmi’s future was sealed when Loganair took its first 135. The Embraer spares inventory was reportedly transferred from Flybmi to Loganair several days before the company went bust. There are few coincidences in aviation.

[Amelia Earhart]

Belfast airports are subsidised by the population of Northern Ireland. Let’s not forget that Belfast people.

:=

Stormont has refused decentralisation of the civil service from Belfast, located both universities in Belfast, and don't even mention InvestBelfast sorry I meant InvestNI. That's how the two Belfast airports are subsidized. Belfast is completely subsidized by discrimination against the 2nd city.

But wasn't there decentralisation to Ballykelly? 600 promised jobs turned into 200 and in the meantime even more jobs at HMRC and the electoral office were centralised. More have been centralised than decentralised!

[southside bobby]

Loganair now named as having been awarded the LDY/STN contract...

[cuthere]

LDY/STN is indeed loaded on the Loganair website. Perhaps more interestingly, so is MAN...

[snn20]

STN begins 27th February 2x Daily ERJ145
MAN begins 24th March 6x weekly (excl Saturday) ERJ145

[Fly757X]

STN begins 27th February 2x Daily ERJ145
MAN begins 24th March 6x weekly (excl Saturday) ERJ145

Sorry I can’t get the website right now, is now 2x on SAT?

[snn20]

Sorry I can’t get the website right now, is now 2x on SAT?
Apologies only 1x daily

[Fly757X]

Apologies only 1x daily

Many thanks! Was a bit busy or I would've checked it myself :D

[owenc]

STN begins 27th February 2x Daily ERJ145
MAN begins 24th March 6x weekly (excl Saturday) ERJ145
good! Timings?

[jamessh]

The collapse of BMI has tuned out to be a blessing for Derry in some ways. They now have a Manchester route out of it... wishing all of those who lost their jobs safe times and hope they find employment soon.

[Fly757X]

The collapse of BMI has tuned out to be a blessing for Derry in some ways. They now have a Manchester route out of it... wishing all of those who lost their jobs safe times and hope they find employment soon.


A Manchester route was supposed to be announced and fully confirmed today actually with BMI.

[jamessh]

A Manchester route was supposed to be announced today actually with BMI.

I’ve been mistaken then. I didn’t know the route was confirmed, thought it was just speculation. I’m much happier with the fares from Loganair. Returns all seem to be fixed at £80. Fair price in my opinion and much better than BMI...

[TartinTon]

Hahahaha....just wait till some start selling.......it may well be a fair price in your opinion but it's one that is well below cost and just not viable in any great volume.

[owenc]

If they fill seats it will be profitable.

[mart901]

Hahahaha....just wait till some start selling.......it may well be a fair price in your opinion but it's one that is well below cost and just not viable in any great volume.

Remember the route attracts subsidy.

[cuthere]

He’s taking about Manchester I believe, which is an non-subsidised route.

[mart901]

He’s taking about Manchester I believe, which is an non-subsidised route.
Got confused with the 'much happier with Loganair fares' bit, as bmi never announced MAN unless I'm mistaken

[cuthere]

They said they intended to launch it, but yes, they never got to the point where it was loaded and prices available.

[buzz_hornet]

39.99 out
Ranging to 50£ back

Settle for that

[Amelia Earhart]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-47362766

Close the airport? And then what? What is the vision? How do you promote the economy? Just move everything else to Belfast? Allow decades of discrimination to finally win? Just erect the white flag?

Belfast is subsidized each year to the tune of £1 billion extra out of the £10 billion budget. £2 million is nothing! Streetseeepong costs more!

With political representation like that, who needs the faceless men in Belfast?

[cuthere]

Agreed Amelia. This guy is utterly disconnected. Is he going to click his fingers and find jobs for those who would be out of a job should the airport close? Will the finger clicking also suddenly build proper roads to Belfast and Dublin, as well as a proper train service to both cities? It’s clear that if one of the tightest, austerity-loving governments in modern history is happy to fund the PSO, then one of two things is true: either the PSO is necessary after passing relevant financial tests; or, and this in my mind is most likely, the funding is a sop to keep themmuns quiet about being stiffed in every other way.

[Amelia Earhart]

The PSO isn't even Stormont money, it is Westminster funding. The councillor is complaining about local council funding, the annual £2 million, but he represents Strabane so his constituents are only paying a fraction of the subvention and they have only just started since the super councils a few years ago.

He has previously stated it should be Stormont funding rather than local government funding and he is right about that but calling for the airport's closure is a failure to understand the greater economic benefits plus the status of a city having an airport. We'd be the only city in Ireland without one. You'd literally be wiping yourself off the map.

The real problem isn't having an airport, it is not having a university, decentralisation and a fair share of inward investment. The airport doesn't work because the economy doesn't work. For a local councillor to state the airport is doomed to failure would imply he sees no economic progress at any time in the future. Rather than calling for the airport's closure, what is he doing about the economy and the discrimination/Belfast centric government policies.

[cuthere]

Indeed. But then, if I represented Strabane, then I too would have abandoned all hope years ago (Just kidding Strabanistas! Your Caffè Nero is lovely!).

Joking aside, completely agree Amelia. All very sad and disheartening. Let’s hope CoDA can prove the naysayers utterly wrong.

[Cyrano]

Remember the route attracts subsidy.
While MAN doesn't attract subsidy, the STN PSO is likely to have covered all the fixed costs of operating the aircraft (lease rental, crews etc) so as long as the MAN route doesn't need more crew, then it only has to cover its marginal costs (fuel, landing fees, ATC, crew duty pay, and incremental maintenance costs) - it's effectively a "free" aircraft so that certainly would improve the economics (unless the PSO authority is clawing back some of the funding, and there has been no mention of that).

[cuthere]

G-RJXI has positioned in from BRS. I assume it’ll be doing LDY-STN from tomorrow. Also, it was mentioned at a council meeting last night that LM sold 300 flights in the 30 minutes after they put tickets for the route on sale.

[owenc]

Is that high demand?

[cuthere]

What’s your opinion on the matter, Owen? Do you think it’s high demand?

[owenc]

I asked you

[Amelia Earhart]

G-RJXI has positioned in from BRS. I assume it’ll be doing LDY-STN from tomorrow. Also, it was mentioned at a council meeting last night that LM sold 300 flights in the 30 minutes after they put tickets for the route on sale.

No doubt the poor sods who were already booked on Flybmi and who have lost their money.......