Belfast City Airport-2

[GAZMO]

Extra flights to Glasgow, see end of article

Flybe to axe Belfast to Liverpool service from end of December - The Irish News (http://www.irishnews.com/business/2018/10/24/news/flybe-to-axe-belfast-to-liverpool-service-from-end-of-december-1466976/)

[Alteagod]

Totally agree with above comments. Big investment, doubt it was to keep BE happy. All the chatter of new carriers or existing ones moving appears to have just been that chatter. At the very least I would have expected a second AMS flight or even ASL to continue FAO or AGP.

All said and done the improvements really make the terminal look so much fresher and good luck to them selling it to whom ever they are courting

[mart901]

Totally agree with above comments. Big investment, doubt it was to keep BE happy. All the chatter of new carriers or existing ones moving appears to have just been that chatter. At the very least I would have expected a second AMS flight or even ASL to continue FAO or AGP.

All said and done the improvements really make the terminal look so much fresher and good luck to them selling it to whom ever they are courting

ASL are continuing both.

[EI-BUD]

I agree with the comments above. What was the business case for a £15M investment? Surely they had their sights set on something?

I the fact that KLM often use small Embraers says alot about the AMS route. If it was doing so well they'd be using 737 equipment. If AMS is not attractive, HOP won't come. For AFKLM it is only about connections, certainly not Disney, easyJet have that covered and it isn't even daily...

EI-BUD

[speedrestriction]

Flybe sold all their LGW slots back in 2013 to keep the ship afloat. They can't afford them any more and in any case GAL basically structures their landing charges to discourage the user of anything smaller than a 737 or a 319. They do operate a NQY LGW but I think that could be a PSO route.

[Cazza_fly]

The PSO between LGW-NQY is now done by Aurigny in a E195.

No. Flybe operate the LGW-NQY route with their E175 and have just confirmed extension of their PSO operation. Aurigny only have a single E195 and it's used on their GCI-LGW route.

[Fly757X]

No. Flybe operate the LGW-NQY route with their E175 and have just confirmed extension of their PSO operation. Aurigny only have a single E195 and it's used on their GCI-LGW route.

Sorry I read that as GCI! Please ignore me!

[BHD2BFS]

In the event of Flybe possibly closing the doors it must be a very worrying time for management at Bhd. So I thought it would be interesting to see who would take on their routes from Bhd I have came up with a few possible airlines but there is gaps i don’t think could be filled. I have came up with a few. Some could be covered by airlines at BFS

ABZ -Loganair
INV - Loganair
EDI - Loganair
GLA - Loganair
LCY - BA Cityflyer
BHX - EZY/FR BFS
LBA - FR BFS
EMA - FR BFS
MAN - EZY/FR BFS
CWL - FR BFS
EXT - ???
SOU - EZY BFS
NQY - ???
DSA - ???

Any opinions?
Maybe Aer lingus regional may appear ?

[EGAC is Better]

In the event of Flybe possibly closing the doors it must be a very worrying time for management at Bhd. So I thought it would be interesting to see who would take on their routes from Bhd I have came up with a few possible airlines but there is gaps i don’t think could be filled. I have came up with a few. Some could be covered by airlines at BFS

ABZ -Loganair
INV - Loganair
EDI - Loganair
GLA - Loganair
LCY - BA Cityflyer
BHX - EZY/FR BFS
LBA - FR BFS
EMA - FR BFS
MAN - EZY/FR BFS
CWL - FR BFS
EXT - ???
SOU - EZY BFS
NQY - ???
DSA - ???

Any opinions?
Maybe Aer lingus regional may appear ?

From personal observations, I would be surprised if anyone took on the LBA route. I’ve used BE to Leeds a lot recently (from late summer) and there are days when they can’t even fill a 76 seat Dash 8 at peak business times, let alone a 189 seat 737. EZY might even struggle to justify 156 seats on an A319.

BCA must be quite worried at the monent because a lot of those BE routes will either move up the road with aforementioned carriers or go unserved if BE went under.

[DC9_10]

Flybe accountants have rated the BHD base as marginal in relation to profit and loss. Would a smaller operator take on marginal operations with likely higher costs. I think contrition of services from the province is inevitable.

[GAZMO]

I think EZY could be interested in increasing frequency on some of the routes if Flybe go to the wall, EDI, GLA, MAN, BHX. Even LBA, as currently BEE have 4/5 daily flights to LBA and twice daily A319 would offer approx same number of seats

[DC9_10]

Pan, I dident say barely marginal. I said marginal as published by Flybe accountants. Get you facts right. As for troll " glass houses " spring to mind.

[DC9_10]

As do I Pan. Having been through the miss management at Midland, I feel for the uncertainty of the staff and contractors on the ground. I would not delight in the airline going under, however the guys at the top have questions to answer. Heathrow ops, Loganair spat etc. As for KLM, this came from their UK ticketing firm director and talks were definately had at BFS.

[Alteagod]

Challenging times ahead for all parties.

[EI-BUD]

So radio Ulster gave a news report this morning from BHD on the opening of the €15m upgrade to the facility.

​​​​​​When asked what about the challenges facing Flybe Ms. Best replied by saying that Flybe are the largest customer at the airport, and that it is among Flybe's most profitable bases. She said no matter what happens at Flybe, that there will always be a large market and demand between there and Britain on domestic services. One assumes she realises that there is a very short list of airlines remaining to fill this competitive space, in the event of Flybe not being around, all loco in the main. I was expecting to hear instead something like, 'we have a strong partnership with Flybe and we are confident that they can work through their current difficulties..and we look forward to growing the business with them'.
Feels to me like that at any cost they need to get a slice of the easyJet business in the market.

[vrb03kt]

I do genuinely wonder what would happen to BHD in the event of an untimely exit by Flybe. Will it survive with just a few BA/EI flights to London? Then again, perhaps it would be an opportunity to finally have just one good airport to serve the province rather than the time-honoured NI tradition of constantly working against ourselves with 2 substandard airports and sending trade off to DUB. BFS can't even cope with its current volume of passengers never mind if more people were headed its way.

[mart901]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/belfast-city-airport-to-invest-millions-in-car-park-upgrade-as-15m-facelift-of-terminal-is-unveiled-37548743.html

In the end the owners clearly have the view that investment will pay off.

[BFS watcher]

Wonder what happened? At least one divert to Aldergrove and lots of aircraft in the hold.

[Startledgrapefruit]

My goodness. A public request for information so that you can use it to get on your soap box.
it was a drop in category. It was resolved.

[El Bunto]

My goodness. A public request for information so that you can use it to get on your soap box.
it was a drop in category. It was resolved.

You are very generous.

It shouldn't have happened, and certainly not at 21:00 with eight inbounds due before curfew. Provision of an adequate fire category for the scheduled traffic is a primary requirement of a licensed aerodrome and I'd say that about any airport, Derry or Enniskillen or Heathrow.

[Startledgrapefruit]

So you say unforseen incidents should not happen

[BCALBOY]

Anyone any idea why BA have cancelled both afternoon and evening flight from Belfast on Sunday 09th Dec?

Means latest departure that day is 0915am making a weekend visit impossible using LHR.

cheapest one way on Aer Lingus evening service is £420.

[BHD2BFS]

Anyone know what Aer Lingus plan to do with their sun routes next year and who will be operating them?
will it be a reduced season again?

[Fly757X]

Anyone know what Aer Lingus plan to do with their sun routes next year and who will be operating them?
will it be a reduced season again?


I've heard it is pretty much the same as last year. EI-STA from ASL however Faro swaps with Malaga on somedays so that it is earlier/later. I can't verify it as I haven't seen anything myself but thats what I've heard.

Edit: I seem to be right.

[Alteagod]

I think it's planned to be a slightly longer season of flights

[Fly757X]

I think it's planned to be a slightly longer season of flights

Happy days, will be nice seeing something else for a while longer next year at BHD.

[mart901]

https://nitravelnews.com/news/belfast-city-airport-first-to-be-awarded-platinum-status/

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus expand LHR from 21 to 25 weekly (switched from Cork) during June-August.

[mart901]

Brilliant news. Is this a W from ORK?

[Cozy F]

This is good news in the summer peak. What days are they adding service?

[mart901]

http://www.belfastcityairport.com/News/BELFAST-CITY-AIRPORT-OFFICIALLY-PARKMARK-CERTIFIED

[EI-BUD]

Surprised to see no discussion on the BHD thread in light of yesterdays Flybe developments.

​​​​​​Any wholesale changes at Flybe certainly could have huge implications for BHD, and the airline has had a long association with the airport. Surely, it has been fruitful in the past, but it has changed. Their key route to LGW, what was their flagship route and potentially at a time busiest in their network is gone, Ryanair has joined the fray, and along the way Aer Lingus has turned up at BHD. Easyjet and Ryanair have entered some of Flybe's largest markets, namely BHX/MAN...

...all that said, they'd appear to be resilient, opening a frequent service on LCY and maintaining the other routes.

What are your views, what will the future operation at BHD look like?

[SWBKCB]

Maybe wait for the deal to be finalised, and if there are new owners they give some indication of their intentions?

[DC9_10]

It's not a done deal as the shareholders have to approve it. On LSE, at the minute they are baiting for COW,s blood.

[ATNotts]

It's not a done deal as the shareholders have to approve it. On LSE, at the minute they are baiting for COW,s blood.

They can bay all they like, but rather like Tory and DUP MPs on another matter, it's either this deal, or no deal, and the latter will likely be disastrous for the employees, and even worse for shareholder's wealth than accepting the deal.

[DC9_10]

Regional politics have no place on this airline forum. You cannot compare. Andrew Tinkler buying in with 10% of shares in Flybe might be the game changer as he may have the knowledge of a counter bid. Virgin have totAlly undervalued Flybe.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Regional politics have no place on this airline forum. You cannot compare. Andrew Tinkler buying in with 10% of shares in Flybe might be the game changer as he may have the knowledge of a counter bid. Virgin have totAlly undervalued Flybe.
The cage has been rattled !!
​​​​​​The flying monkeys are awake

[Alteagod]

Accordingly, following completion of the Subsidiary Sale, if the Scheme is not approved, the Flybe Directors intend to take steps to wind-up the Company and Shareholders are likely to receive no value for their shares in Flybe. Accordingly, the Flybe Directors believe that the terms of the Acquisition remain in the best interests of Flybe Shareholders as a whole and unanimously recommend that Flybe Shareholders vote in favour of the resolutions to be proposed at the Court Meeting and the General Meeting.

Extract from statement made to London Stock Exchange if the sale does not go through ...vultures overhead

[owenc]

What’s happening with BE332?

[El Bunto]

What’s happening with BE332?

It is being printed on boarding cards each morning?

I do hate how FR24 conflates flight numbers ( which mean nothing ) with actual flight designators.

If you mean BEE2YL today, standard ILS approach to runway 22 by DH8D G-JEDW from EGPE. The only oddity being that the Belfast Approach controller doesn't have primary-radar altitude readout at the moment.

[EGAC is Better]

It is being printed on boarding cards each morning?

I do hate how FR24 conflates flight numbers ( which mean nothing ) with actual flight designators.

If you mean BEE2YL today, standard ILS approach to runway 22 by DH8D G-JEDW from EGPE. The only oddity being that the Belfast Approach controller doesn't have primary-radar altitude readout at the moment.

FR24 had them squawking 7700 and Flybe have released a statement confirming a ‘minor technical fault’ but that it landed safely.

[owenc]

Why would a minor technical fault warrant a cruising speed of 120 mph 50 miles out?

[irishlad06]

FR24 had them squawking 7700 and Flybe have released a statement confirming a ‘minor technical fault’ but that it landed safely.


hydraulic issue

[escaped.atco]

It is being printed on boarding cards each morning?

I do hate how FR24 conflates flight numbers ( which mean nothing ) with actual flight designators.

If you mean BEE2YL today, standard ILS approach to runway 22 by DH8D G-JEDW from EGPE. The only oddity being that the Belfast Approach controller doesn't have primary-radar altitude readout at the moment.

Think you'll find the altitude readout comes from SSR and not Primary. If and it's a big if, with the cheap and nasty radar that City have, as long as their SSR is still working then they will be able to operate more or less as normal.

[escaped.atco]

Why would a minor technical fault warrant a cruising speed of 120 mph 50 miles out?

120kts would almost certainly say to me a configuration issue, probably a flap limiting speed. Or a gear down speed. Hydraulic issue as noted by irish lad would probably indicate a flaps problem, plus brakes may be affected plus maybe steering. I suspect flaps were definitely down as any flap up landing means higher speeds and usually a precautionary divert to Aldergrove for the longer runway.

[Alteagod]

Are we still on a guessing game with what BE are doing post the Connect deal. Still flying the same program I guess for S19. Any chance of new carriers?

[EGAC is Better]

Are we still on a guessing game with what BE are doing post the Connect deal. Still flying the same program I guess for S19. Any chance of new carriers?

Flybe have said publicly there will be no change in flying program until at the earliest, end of 2019 summer schedule.

The cash injection seems to enable current ops to continue and allows time for a review to be completed by the new Connect consortium.

[Alteagod]

Southend thread mentioned BHD in passing. Re Vigin Connect a published program is no guarantee of actual program but certainly all the noises would seem that BHD will see least impact of any cull should one happen which is a possitive

[Alteagod]

Looks like CAX starting 4th July according to CAX thread

[cuthere]

Not sure the bold text is required, but yes. Loaded on the Loganair website. 5x week. Tues and Weds miss out.

[EI-BUD]

It would appear that LHR is up to x9 daily for summer season, EI x 3 and BA x 6, and when EI increase during the peak that may be 10 daily. BA restoring some of their frequency has to be a good thing...

[2Para]

It would appear that LHR is up to x9 daily for summer season, EI x 3 and BA x 6, and when EI increase during the peak that may be 10 daily. BA restoring some of their frequency has to be a good thing...
BA are coming back to the international

[mariofly12]

It would appear that LHR is up to x9 daily for summer season, EI x 3 and BA x 6, and when EI increase during the peak that may be 10 daily. BA restoring some of their frequency has to be a good thing...
Would it be a flop if EI did LGW-BHS against easyjet's LGW-BFS, considering the convenience of BHS airport for Belfast pax?

[SealinkBF]

Would it be a flop if EI did LGW-BHS against easyjet's LGW-BFS, considering the convenience of BHS airport for Belfast pax?

EI did that route a few years ago though...

[mariofly12]

I didnt know that..Should i suppose it had good loads poor yields so they decided to focus on LHR?To this day no one seems to be able to give Easyjet a run for its money on the LGW-Belfast route

[BFS101]

BA are coming back to the international
Please no! BHD is a much more pleasant experience

Re a Gatwick flight, with VS potentially looking feed into long-haul with recently purchased BE, I wonder will we see FlyBE (Virgin) back on the route. Rumours on another thread that BE may get A220, ideal aircraft for the service.

[PDXCWL45]

Please no! BHD is a much more pleasant experience

Re a Gatwick flight, with VS potentially looking feed into long-haul with recently purchased BE, I wonder will we see FlyBE (Virgin) back on the route. Rumours on another thread that BE may get A220, ideal aircraft for the service.
If Flybe were going to launch another London flight then it would probably be Heathrow.

[mart901]

I didnt know that..Should i suppose it had good loads poor yields so they decided to focus on LHR?To this day no one seems to be able to give Easyjet a run for its money on the LGW-Belfast route

The slots were surrendered at LGW as part of the IAG purchase of EI. They had a slow start but it built up. Also BE ran successfully for years E195 service, LGW's policy regarding smaller aircraft made this unfeasible in the end.

[EI-BUD]

Makes no sense for Flybe to start BHD LHR, to compete with BA who huge nerwork connectivity, and Aer Lingus who are price competitive. Besides the existing carriers can feed Virgin at LHR via travel agency / tour operator bookings.

incredible that Flybe have been able to get their hands on LHR slots, if Virgin see a value in handing over slots to Flybe, it says a lot about the profitable use of shots for their existing long haul network, I would imagine a slot would be better utilised to a north American destination...

[Startledgrapefruit]

BA are coming back to the international
1st of April, Tourettes or just another member of the BFS fan club

[Alteagod]

A350 Bhd LHR cant wait

[BFS101]

if Virgin see a value in handing over slots to Flybe, it says a lot about the profitable use of shots for their existing long haul network, I would imagine a slot would be better utilised to a north American destination...
Wonder longer term will the slots revert to long-haul. Perhaps aircraft shortage with DL / VS is the reason.
Should A220 become a reality, could see these on the LCY that seems to be performing well. I know a few separate people that fly to London weekly, and have swapped from BA Heathrow to BE City, esp as can continue to collect Avios.

[mart901]

Makes no sense for Flybe to start BHD LHR, to compete with BA who huge nerwork connectivity, and Aer Lingus who are price competitive. Besides the existing carriers can feed Virgin at LHR via travel agency / tour operator bookings.

incredible that Flybe have been able to get their hands on LHR slots, if Virgin see a value in handing over slots to Flybe, it says a lot about the profitable use of shots for their existing long haul network, I would imagine a slot would be better utilised to a north American destination...

EI may be price competitive on other routes but LHR-BHD definitely isn't one of them, BA are nearly always cheaper. I've never known EI to be anything other than bunged on that route

[2Para]

1st of April, Tourettes or just another member of the BFS fan club
do u know someone with tourettes?, its a disease u know!!

[EI-BUD]

Wonder longer term will the slots revert to long-haul. Perhaps aircraft shortage with DL / VS is the reason.
Should A220 become a reality, could see these on the LCY that seems to be performing well. I know a few separate people that fly to London weekly, and have swapped from BA Heathrow to BE City, esp as can continue to collect Avios.

Flybe are axing their membership of the Avios program..30April.

[Startledgrapefruit]

do u know someone with tourettes?, its a disease u know!!
Not a disease
New member 4 posts in..
A refuelerman or a watcher ?
Tourette's is defined as part of a spectrum (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_disorder) of tic disorders (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic_disorder), which includes provisional, transient and persistent (chronic) tics. Tics are often unnoticed by casual observers. While the exact cause is unknown, it is believed to involve a combination of genetic (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics)and environmental factors

Anyway BA are upgrading their lounge soon.

[BHD2BFS]

I see in Flybe thread That winter schedule is realised tomorrow 3rd
rumour of cwl and dsa to close down
what do they have in store for bhd?

[SealinkBF]

Makes no sense for Flybe to start BHD LHR, to compete with BA who huge nerwork connectivity, and Aer Lingus who are price competitive. Besides the existing carriers can feed Virgin at LHR via travel agency / tour operator bookings.

incredible that Flybe have been able to get their hands on LHR slots, if Virgin see a value in handing over slots to Flybe, it says a lot about the profitable use of shots for their existing long haul network, I would imagine a slot would be better utilised to a north American destination...

I dont think you can start a service to US destination in the window Flybe started their GCI service, which is subsidised to the tune of £800k this year. For a slot sitting exercise it's a steal. If GCI and IOM LHR are running this time next year I will be surprised

[BHD2BFS]

BBC are reporting that CWL, DSA and EXT routes will all finish from BHD, starting to think Connect will literally just connect most airports to hubs. Thin routes will more than likely to go.

Seems like a good opportunity for Loganair to jump in now and starting picking up any loses to the Scottish regions

[EI-BUD]

BBC are reporting that CWL, DSA and EXT routes will all finish from BHD, starting to think Connect will literally just connect most airports to hubs. Thin routes will more than likely to go.

Seems like a good opportunity for Loganair to jump in now and starting picking up any loses to the Scottish regions

If this is all that BHD loses in this process, I think that would be a very good outcome.

​​​​​

[EGAC is Better]

BBC are reporting that CWL, DSA and EXT routes will all finish from BHD, starting to think Connect will literally just connect most airports to hubs. Thin routes will more than likely to go.

The media really aren’t helping. Their poor reporting is making a bad situation worse (read over the Flybe thread if you wish to hear what appears to have been happening).

Anyway, my point. BE have stated that jet operations at those bases would cease. Isn’t EXT operated by a Dash 8? Ok, CWL and DSA are jet ops but the press release also states an intention to keep open routes using Dash 8’s from other bases.

Now unless BE can magic up some more Dash 8’s at short notice, it is safe to assume that capacity will need to be lost somewhere in the route network. But, that remains to be confirmed by them.

If the BBC reported exactly as you say, the facts out there now do not support their article.

[SealinkBF]

EXT has some jet operations - namely the positioning flight to/from NWI for the sun routes for each airport.
Looking at CWL departures yesterday, apart from Anglesey all jet operation. That is some cull.

[owenc]

Why does BHD not allow regular customers to buy fast track?

I would like to buy a ticket. This is the only airport in the UK that doesn’t offer this facility.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Why does BHD not allow regular customers to buy fast track?

I would like to buy a ticket. This is the only airport in the UK that doesn’t offer this facility.
Stornoway ?

[AirportPlanner1]

Stornoway ?

Does it not? Barra offers Fast Track......

Fast Track to the beach

[EGAC is Better]

Why does BHD not allow regular customers to buy fast track?

I would like to buy a ticket. This is the only airport in the UK that doesn’t offer this facility.

Maybe because they have a load of business travellers entitled to fast track through tickets/airline loyalty. Adding to the queue kind of defeats the purpose.

What time are you travelling through at? There is a strong probability that you won’t even need fast track to get through quickly.

[owenc]

So what? BFS and other major UK airports allow you to purchase a fasttrack pass and they have business passengers?

Don’t defend the indefensible.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Don’t defend the indefensible.[/QUOTE]

But we will because it's fun !

[SWBKCB]

Don’t defend the indefensible.

No fast track? #firstworldproblems

[mart901]

BHD were selling fast track with parking, not sure if that applies but there's probably little or no value in it now given the speed of security.
On the point of propaganda more power to their elbow, better to push yourself forward with positive news than be ridiculed on social media for security queue's and ramp incidents... . 🤔

[EGAC is Better]

So what? BFS and other major UK airports allow you to purchase a fasttrack pass and they have business passengers?

Don’t defend the indefensible.

As has already been pointed out multiple times, you are not likely to need fast track at City. They also don’t NEED to sell it, nor would it make business sense to do something that might degrade the experience for those who pay a premium! If you want it, buy a premium fare with BA, Aer Lingus or Flybe or achieve a loyalty status with Aer Lingus or BA that entitles you use fast track.

If there is any sense at City, they will leave as is. I traded my easyJet Plus and ‘Priority’ security at Aldergrove (moving to City unless no other option) when they started selling to the masses and it made journey times through at peak times very inconsistent. That will hopefully improve with the new security setup.

Your point about business travellers at Aldergrove is somewhat moot. How many of those business travellers at Aldergrove are paying anywhere near the fare they would at Belfast City? I’d bet not very many and that’s the important part. When you pay peanuts to get on a flight, you accept that the service will come with inevitable pain at some point. When you pay through the nose for a service, you expect it to be much better and will rightly complain if it isn’t. Belfast’s two airports have very differing markets in the most part!

[left rudder]

I think posters are missing the moot point here.
Paying for fast track is rewarding failure.
A failing security system generates additional revenue by forcing time restricted travellers to pay a hefty additional premium for a service they have already paid for.
The UK should adopt the policy of the Irish DoT where airports are fined if they fail to meet agreed performance standards.
Last year Dublin Airport was fined €700,000 for exceeding Queueing performance standards on 4 (four!) occasions, once by 8 seconds in excess of the 30 minute maximum!
Without some form of oversight by the authorities airports will continue to treat their customers with disdain.

[El Bunto]

To follow left rudder, I believe that it is essential that an airport have a fast-track *process* but agree that it shouldn't be a vended option, but should be reserved for urgent situations.

For example I was once fast-tracked at City after the oversized-baggage guys took nearly 30 minutes to process my already-disassembled-and-bagged bicycle for a BA flight. I was in jeopardy of missing boarding, so I was sent through ASAP.

[EGAC is Better]

Left Rudder & EI Bunto, I 100% agree with the content of your posts.

[EI-BUD]

Your point about business travellers at Aldergrove is somewhat moot. How many of those business travellers at Aldergrove are paying anywhere near the fare they would at Belfast City? I’d bet not very many and that’s the important part. When you pay peanuts to get on a flight, you accept that the service will come with inevitable pain at some point. When you pay through the nose for a service, you expect it to be much better and will rightly complain if it isn’t. Belfast’s two airports have very differing markets in the most part!
This is a very debatable topic 'EGAC is better'.
​​​​​​We can assume BHD resident carriers charge higher fares, but Business travellers mostly book late, certainly on SH. Have you ever seen the price of tickets in the last few days on LCCs? Can be eye watering. I'd argue the design of yield management systems is not designed to be low prices close to travel date (yes there can be exceptions on a route where there is over capacity, and softer load factors), the bit that business travellers are after. easyJet have a very well developed business traveller following, they have a big focus on corporates and SMEs, and again yes they are not as notable in that space as BA, let's not forget we are comparing a very sizeable domestic easyJet opetation with 1 BA route to LHR...which has lower loads and quite a lot of economy leisure travellers .... BFS has probably more than it's fair share of business travellers ...

[mart901]

Also when we say BHD is more expensive and yes it is a fair bit of the time, it's very much relational to LON. When you start looking at say BHX, MAN, GLA, EDI fares on BE can be relatively similar to EZY and sometimes cheaper, there's a fair bit of leisure business out of BHD too.

[Startledgrapefruit]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BELFASTCITY_AIR?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimel ine%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3ABELFASTCITY_AIR&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.belfastcityairport.com%2F

Oh and something about the winter timetable

[Startledgrapefruit]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/plane-fuel-checked-at-belfast-city-airport-after-concerns-over-delivery-38126303.html

[Alteagod]

Better finding out o the ground than in the sky that your fuel is cheap muck

[2Para]

Better finding out o the ground than in the sky that your fuel is cheap muck
who are you to say the fuel is cheap muck, do u fly youre aircraft on super unleaded or something, ✊💦💦

[Startledgrapefruit]

who are you to say the fuel is cheap muck, do u fly youre aircraft on super unleaded or something, ✊💦💦


Alteagod you have upset Refuelerman

[bad bear]

Up to 7 per day to Birmingham/Manchester

Up to 4 per day to Edinburgh/Glasgow

Up to 6 per day to London City

Up to 3 per day to Southampton/East Midlands


Does this mean no flights to the other destinations they currently serve?eg Aberdeen, Cardiff, Doncaster, Exeter, Inverness, jersey, Leeds.....

bb

[PDXCWL45]

Does this mean no flights to the other destinations they currently serve?eg Aberdeen, Cardiff, Doncaster, Exeter, Inverness, jersey, Leeds.....

bb
Doncaster will be 4 weekly the winter, Exeter daily. Cardiff no one knows about so it's unknown whether the route will be dropped or not.

[LBIA]

Leeds is up to 5x daily.

[mart901]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/belfast-city-hailed-as-the-most-punctual-uk-airport-in-2018-38154925.html

[BHD2BFS]

Where do they get 2.6 million passengers from? I thought it was quite a few years since they had a figure that good?

[escaped.atco]

http://www.belfastcityairport.com/BCA/files/43/43b0cd2d-af93-4c3c-a961-11e9c4ab76e9.pdf

A quick google search gives the link above, the 2.6 million was a few years ago. After successful marketing and promotion of the airport the latest figure appears to be 2.1 million with a downward trend. You have to remember though that the Minister for Propaganda is always right! Utterly delusional, any growth recently has all been at Aldergrove that I can see anyway.

I see movements are down as well by over 25%, is this also being sold as a success story? The other point worthy of note in that report is the amount of flights using the flight path over Belfast Lough, its still a bias but only just! I'm sure the local concerned residents are really happy with that particular item, I can recall that being 65% and greater in years gone past and that was with more movements. Perhaps the good folk in ATC have lost interest and prefer the easier life now.

[GAZMO]

FYI
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/emergency-services-called-to-belfast-city-airport-after-flybe-flight-forced-to-return-after-take-off-38237113.html

[El Bunto]

FYI
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/emergency-services-called-to-belfast-city-airport-after-flybe-flight-forced-to-return-after-take-off-38237113.html

It was DH8D G-PRPE, shutdown port engine. Not G-ECOR nor a Vueling A320 as shown in the newspaper photo!

Landed 07:59.

[Alteagod]

Has been a while since the routes conference in Belfast. Has any Airport in NI gained anything? It was a great showcase for NI but as for gains....??

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair app seems to have BHD in the selection, also am updated version of the app. What's happening here, is there an SEN link coming?

[Alteagod]

Anything's possible

[Startledgrapefruit]

Happened before
showing city in error

[GAZMO]

Notice both EI flights to FAO and AGP have been cancelled today
anyone know the reason?

[Shamrock350]

EI-STA gone tech in Malaga.

[Alteagod]

It looks like it's coming back from AGP now so must be all better and fixed now

[Startledgrapefruit]

Exciting news tomorrow !!

[mart901]

Exciting news tomorrow !!
​​​​​​??????

[Alteagod]

Ryanair moving down w19 before Virgin get in on the LON market I heard

[owenc]

Think people would be stupid to bother flying Ryanair after what they have done on BFS.

[cuthere]

Think people would be stupid to bother flying Ryanair after what they have done on BFS.

Were people stupid flying Ryanair after what they did at LDY?

[owenc]

Derry is a smaller airport. Ryanair pulled out of BFS over fees.

[cuthere]

I’m not sure that answers my question.....hardly surprising.

Anyway. The FR merry-go-round continues.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Much more than Ryan air....... Think
transatlantic.......!

[West Brit]

Ryanair moving down w19 before Virgin get in on the LON market I heard

Yip-Ryanair want to get in there before the VS jumbos commence the BHD-Lon market. MOL must be having sleepless nights over this prospect. FR have had BHD on their app for at least over a year now. Lanzarote, Tenerife from BHD?

[mart901]

Ryanair moving down w19 before Virgin get in on the LON market I heard

Yip-Ryanair want to get in there before the VS jumbos commence the BHD-Lon market. MOL must be having sleepless nights over this prospect. FR have had BHD on their app for at least over a year now. Lanzarote, Tenerife from BHD?
Didn't think the canaries were feasible?

[Startledgrapefruit]

Dont be thinking Ryan air
something more magical

[cuthere]

It would need to be magic to do trans-Atlantic pax flights from BHD’s runway.

[OltonPete]

Dont be thinking Ryan air
something more magical

HOP Paris?

although I am whether Air France are awash with Slots at CDG.

Flybe-Virgin-KLM-Air France all linked now.

Pete

[fjencl]

Exciting news tomorrow !!


Are we still waiting for the exciting news .........

[Alteagod]

CAX starts tomorrow

[Alteagod]

I was temporarily moist with expectation

[escaped.atco]

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/notamRetrievalByICAOAction.do?method=displayByICAOs&reportType=RAW&formatType=DOMESTIC&retrieveLocId=EGAC&actionType=notamRetrievalByICAOs


Whats going on?:eek:

[Startledgrapefruit]

Whats going on?:eek:[/QUOTE]

Foo Fighters concert Boucher road.

[2Para]

Whats going on?:eek:

Foo Fighters concert Boucher road.[/QUOTE]
sick call🤣🤣

[panpanpanpan]

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/belfast-city-airport-air-traffic-16555533

[2Para]

Harbour boasts about its super fast security process, I think its 6 minutes they always state. Not much point racing through security if there's no air traffic controllers available to get your flight in the air!
panpan, you always have a problem with things that are of no relevance to the page, of course the fast security lane is going to be no use if there are delays on the network, the same way you dont need fast security if u bothered you're hole to turn up at the time the airline says you should turn up at..

[cuthere]

Panpanpan, very good and relevant post. Users of BHD deserve to be aware of the potential for disruption to their flights.

However, why are you surprised that someone with the handle “2para” is posting cobblers at 2.54am during the “summer holidays”? Your (not “you're” for your own education, 2para) post was relevant to the thread. BHD continues to leak passengers on key routes like LHR (admittedly modestly offset by improvements on LCY), so really need to get their house in order. I find your posts holding BHD to account as relevant, and indeed entertaining.

Keep it up!

[EGAC is Better]

Anyone know why City was closed tonight?

[2Para]

I'm a bit confused 2Para, this thread is about Belfast City Airport and therefore topics relevant to said airport are surely in keeping with the relevance of this page?:confused:

Maybe I didn't explain my point accurately enough? The article on BelfastLive was about no air traffic controllers available to let the airport operate, there was no mention of delays on the network. The delays were caused by, and originated at, the airport. Its only a short time ago that there was the outcry on the Belfast International's thread about security screwing up the operation of the airport and causing hassles for passengers. Totally relevant to the page IMO as it related directly to the day to day running of the airport.

By the same standard I consider the lack of controllers at harbour also relevant, sorry if that offends you. Its an example of a subcontractor failing to provide the service that they have been contracted to do. I would suggest perhaps similar traits to Belfast International, a subcontractor treating staff like assets rather than people and then wondering why the operation at times fails. But what do I know?

Now lets get back to the really relevant news items like Cinemagic programs and community bribes.:cool:
yes i do apologise pan pan, i was assuming you were talking about the LGW air traffic delays, the london area was a shambles last night. Apologies again.

[2Para]

Panpanpan, very good and relevant post. Users of BHD deserve to be aware of the potential for disruption to their flights.

However, why are you surprised that someone with the handle “2para” is posting cobblers at 2.54am during the “summer holidays”? Your (not “you're” for your own education, 2para) post was relevant to the thread. BHD continues to leak passengers on key routes like LHR (admittedly modestly offset by improvements on LCY), so really need to get their house in order. I find your posts holding BHD to account as relevant, and indeed entertaining.

Keep it up!
Cobblers is what u call it, a mistake is what i call it friend, and my education happened in my school years buddy, unless you know me well don't be making a t##t out of yourself correcting a legitimate mistake, are u a headmaster, todger? Dont bother answering, just go back into that hole u live in.

[cuthere]

yes i do apologise pan pan, i was assuming you were talking about the LGW air traffic delays, the london area was a shambles last night. Apologies again.

Fair play.

[cuthere]

Cobblers is what u call it, a mistake is what i call it friend, and my education happened in my school years buddy, unless you know me well don't be making a t##t out of yourself correcting a legitimate mistake, are u a headmaster, todger? Dont bother answering, just go back into that hole u live in.

And there I was applauding your humility and apology to Panpanpan. Typical NI. One step forward, fifteen back.

[escaped.atco]

Anyone know why City was closed tonight?

That'll be the lack of ATC staff I would assume. It appears the cracks are starting to show, if the notam is right it looks like tomorrow and Saturday may be interesting as well. Watch this space! :ooh:

[Alteagod]

Or the BE emergency that's all over the news

[BFS BHD]

Or the BE emergency that's all over the news

There was at least two times after the Flybe Emergency that aircraft where holding. One of the time the airport was shut. Not sure if the 2nd time was the same.

[EGAC is Better]

Or the BE emergency that's all over the news

The BE emergency looks to have happened at around 1845. I was on EI937 and it seems crew were only told of delay during descent and that the airfield was closed until 2030 at the earliest.

I thought the same as escaped.atco to be honest.

[Alteagod]

In that case no idea

[El Bunto]

The airport was first closed briefly for a runway inspection after G-JEDP landed at 18:42; A20N G-TTNB landed 19:01.

The second closure was from 19:40 to 20:30 but I don't know the cause.

[mike current]

The second closure was from 19:40 to 20:30 but I don't know the cause.

ATC staff shortage

[True Blue]

Seems BHD don't always get it right either.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/belfast-city-airport-security-leaves-16610263

[GAZMO]

FYI

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/cap-on-seats-sold-by-belfast-city-airport-lifted-38342439.html

Will it make a difference to the numbers?

[EI-BUD]

FYI

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/cap-on-seats-sold-by-belfast-city-airport-lifted-38342439.html

Will it make a difference to the numbers?
Thanks sharing this Gazmo.

My take outs from the article are as follows;

cap on seats removed, but cap on movents remain, therefore I take that to mean a move towards larger aircraft. That can only mean aiming for Ryanair or easyJet business?
How will the 733 seasonal routes be impacted by the noise regulations? I can't imagine any other aircraft will be in scope based on the current operation...


EI-BUD

[Startledgrapefruit]

The Aldergrove fan club give it a cautious welcome
but still won't condemn aircraft noise on flights going into their beloved airport over Belfast at night and early morning !

[NWSRG]

Surely there's room at City for some genuine European business flights. We've got AMS (albeit not at a great time), but there must be scope for MUC, FRA, MAD, BRU and so on. Maybe a C-series provides both the legs and efficiency to make those routes work.

[escaped.atco]

There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved? :confused:

As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.:hmm:

[2Para]

There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved? :confused:

As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.:hmm:
maybe because they are quiet nobody hears them at night, all i/b flights to bfs will be throttled back to minimums and there would be very little noise indeed.

[Startledgrapefruit]

maybe because they are quiet nobody hears them at night, all i/b flights to bfs will be throttled back to minimums and there would be very little noise indeed.


When they put the flaps down you certainly hear them. Down here in BT 9 on a quiet night or morning when they take off on 07 they are just a loud as something coming out of the city

[escaped.atco]

So all these night time arrivals are throttled back to minimum and they are practically silent you say? This is obviously a procedure that I was never aware of! Quick mathematical calculation then for the airborne experts. A320, descending through 3000ft with idle power setting over BT9 after coming up P620 from Dublin direction for downwind leg runway 25 at Aldergrove. Are you telling me it can continue in noise stealth mode with no adjustments required all the way to the threshold? Now that's impressive!:8

[Husky One]

There are noise procedures in place for night arrivals (and departures) in BFS. It isn’t difficult for a modern jet to arrive using minimum thrust if you let the crew get on with it. That entails letting them control the speed and minimising the use of speed brakes.

[escaped.atco]

There are noise procedures in place for night arrivals (and departures) in BFS. It isn’t difficult for a modern jet to arrive using minimum thrust if you let the crew get on with it. That entails letting them control the speed and minimising the use of speed brakes.

In an ideal world, that's what would happen. In that case I would have thought something around 6000ft over the city giving approximately 20 plus miles from touchdown runway 25 would be sufficient for a CDA. However, the reality is there are jets over the city centre late night and early morning which are at best level at 3000ft and in most cases descending. I would have thought 3000ft over Belfast with idle power, still downwind, would end up with a touchdown point before Templepatrick? The examples I have seen are arrivals from the south west passing Lisburn in a steady descent, they seem to fly directly towards the HB and level off, then turn north west to pass east of Glengormley before establishing on long final runway 25.

[EGAC is Better]

Can’t speak for those in BT9 but in BT6 the late night arrivals to BFS are not silent. As already mentioned, I’ll second the opinion that 07 departures from BFS can generate a fair amount of noise over the City too.

No point in complaining though. We want to fly, that creates noise.

[Husky One]

Jets inbound to BFS are never over the city below 3000’. They are only cleared below that north of the City. They are also many times quieter than they were 20 years ago..in the days when nobody seemed bothered by them. There were also more of them flying around at night back then. I understand the BHD concerns but the BFS noise is clutching at straws.
As EGAC said - we like to fly. Planes make noise.

[escaped.atco]

Jets inbound to BFS are never over the city below 3000’.......


Is that a definitive statement from your own viewpoint or speculative? I can assure you jets inbound to EGAA are at times below 3000 feet over the city area. Even a quick glance at Flight Radar at times will confirm that if you don't believe it. The point being made was that ironically jet flights departing from GBBCA cannot or should not be over residential areas as noted below 3000 feet, yet at night flghts inbound to another airport can legally and safely be at 2000 feet over those same areas. I'm not trying to pick a fight. merely stating facts.:ok:

[West Brit]

No way would a BFS bound aircraft be permitted below 3000 feet over Belfast. There is a ring of hills to the north and west minimum height 1000 feet to around 1600 feet that approaching aircraft have to be 1000s of feet above. They can only begin final descent once they have passed these hills. They tend to be around 3000-4000 feet approaching the Knockagh before the left turn.

[escaped.atco]

OK. I'm getting bored of this now. :ugh:

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=18&Itemid=73.html

Think I posted wrong link. the chart you want is the Minimum Altitude Chart, AD 2-EGAA-5-1

[Husky One]

Me too. Probably just as well you escaped. During the day you are never dropped below 4000 until clear of the City’s airspace. At night you are dropped to 3000 but no less until being vectored onto the localiser. The base of the airspace on the chart does not imply the procedures employed. If the CAA had their way the whole of NI would be a class D control zone from the ground up. That doesn’t mean jets would be using it. Ask a locally based jet crew if you’re not convinced.

[escaped.atco]

Escaping is fantastic, I can thoroughly recommend it. Good for the mind and soul!

Husky seems adamant that EGAA arrivals steadfastly remain above 4000 until far away from the city centre and never go below 3000 at night. All those conversations I have had over the years coordinating descent to lower levels were obviously a figment of my imagination then.:confused:

As far as the Class D airspace issue, worth bearing in mind the majority of Northern Ireland airspace is uncontrolled and is likely to stay that way. The Class D already there is certainly piecemeal but it largely works.

[2Para]

If you cant bear civil aircraft coasting in to land i suggest moving to somewhere quieter, it must be deafening when you let a fart out if the noise bothers you!

[Husky One]

I’ll tell the Easyjet guys they are allowed down to 2000ft over BFS at night then. Then we’ll see what noise is really about :rolleyes: or better still Jet2 with the ‘classic’

[2Para]

I’ll tell the Easyjet guys they are allowed down to 2000ft over BFS at night then. Then we’ll see what noise is really about :rolleyes: or better still Jet2 with the ‘classic’
the DHL and STARAIR would be interesting as well down to 2000ft🤣🤣

[panpanpanpan]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/passengers-down-at-belfast-city-airport-for-a-third-year-38214156.html

https://www.irishnews.com/business/2019/06/06/news/profits-soar-at-belfast-city-airport-in-year-of-investment-1635466/

Maybe this has already been covered and I've missed it but two interesting articles I think. Passenger numbers down but yet profits are up, that's a good trick! Does that mean that although there are fewer passengers, they are getting more cash out of them when they're having the Belfast City Airport Experience?:hmm:

Interesting that the Gatwick was doing 250k per year, that's a big loss by any standards. Amazed that they haven't been able to source another London route. I've said it before, London City and Heathrow are good but not really geared to the leisure market.

[2Para]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/passengers-down-at-belfast-city-airport-for-a-third-year-38214156.html

https://www.irishnews.com/business/2019/06/06/news/profits-soar-at-belfast-city-airport-in-year-of-investment-1635466/

Maybe this has already been covered and I've missed it but two interesting articles I think. Passenger numbers down but yet profits are up, that's a good trick! Does that mean that although there are fewer passengers, they are getting more cash out of them when they're having the Belfast City Airport Experience?:hmm:

Interesting that the Gatwick was doing 250k per year, that's a big loss by any standards. Amazed that they haven't been able to source another London route. I've said it before, London City and Heathrow are good but not really geared to the leisure market.
don't know why the Irish news are reporting it, sure Belfast is in the U.K.

[cuthere]

A paper based in Belfast, on the island of Ireland? God knows. Why does the Belfast Telegraph report on news outside of Belfast? Why does someone with a username invoking a military regiment based in Colchester care so much about Northern Irish aviation?

All questions I’ll leave to the intellects here to ponder.

[speedrestriction]

don't know why the Irish news are reporting it, sure Belfast is in the U.K.

If you want to engage in obtuse political point making I suggest you head over to Jet Blast/comments section of political pages on Facebook/The Sun/Daily Mail. The AA&R threads are of interest to people employed in the aviation sector here in NI and local aviation enthusiasts. Both groups contain a wide cross-section of individuals from different communities, few (if any) of whom are interested in your political views.

Contribute in a mature fashion or get lost.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Lets leave politics aside, especially local politics!:mad: As far as I see it, one side is doing its best to completely rewrite about 30 years worth of history while the other side is determined to make as much cash as possible for its members and cohorts. I hold both in equal contempt.

Now, back to the articles. Any thoughts how less footfall has generated an increase in profits?:8

Shappin and Parkin and the filling of the cake hole.

[2Para]

A paper based in Belfast, on the island of Ireland? God knows. Why does the Belfast Telegraph report on news outside of Belfast? Why does someone with a username invoking a military regiment based in Colchester care so much about Northern Irish aviation?

All questions I’ll leave to the intellects here to ponder.
2 para is a code name for an avaition system, unlike you, i have done my homework. The coldstream guards are based in Clochester, wiki isnt always correct.

[owenc]

Colchester

[2Para]

Colchester
yes, Colchester.👌

[EGAC is Better]

Another airborne 7700 avoided by Flybe this am? BE729 to Leeds rejected take off as we were sitting at the hold, waiting to go next.

What is going on? Are the Dash 8’s in such a bad state that they are struggling to keep them airworthy or was today not a tech issue?

Edit: Updated flight number to be correct.

[2Para]

Another airborne 7700 avoided by Flybe this am? BE736 to Leeds rejected take off as we were sitting at the hold, waiting to go next.

What is going on? Are the Dash 8’s in such a bad state that they are struggling to keep them airworthy or was today not a tech issue?
i think its only a matter of time.... Yes, 2 major fatalities from a new boeing aircraft and they are pulled, these faults wont go un noticed.

[EGAC is Better]

Just checked the departure board and BE729 was operated late by G-JEDW. Earlier it was showing as G-ECOB and thats what I eyeballed.

G-ECOB hasn’t flown since so I’m guessing that means it has gone tech or perhaps there was a bird strike during takeoff roll? There were quite a few magpies flying around close to the runway as my flight backtracked.

[speedrestriction]

i think its only a matter of time.... Yes, 2 major fatalities from a new boeing aircraft and they are pulled, these faults wont go un noticed.

Of course they won’t - that’s why the flight crew will have decided to prematurely terminate the flight. They will then make an entry in the aircraft technical log. This entry regarding the fault “ wont go un noticed” (sic) by the engineers who will rectify the defect and the aircraft will return to service. No big drama: this is how the system works and how it has worked for a century.

2Para - life is not a tabloid newspaper. It’s OK, we professionals have the situation under control - you can rest easy.

[2Para]

Of course they won’t - that’s why the flight crew will have decided to prematurely terminate the flight. They will then make an entry in the aircraft technical log. This entry regarding the fault “ wont go un noticed” (sic) by the engineers who will rectify the defect and the aircraft will return to service. No big drama: this is how the system works and how it has worked for a century.

2Para - life is not a tabloid newspaper. It’s OK, we professionals have the situation under control - you can rest easy.
I suggest you would be under qualified to fly a kite, the telegraph and I news are broadsheet format, smartypants, U keep telling yourself that.😂😂

[EGAC is Better]

Its quite a jump from any aircraft aborting a take off and 2para's rather doom laden "its only a matter of time". Really? Wise up!:ugh: Aborted departures, go arounds are surely part and parcel of normal aviation activity. Not really worth the doom laden prophets pretending they know something is about to happen.

Obviously this is conjecture because we don’t know the actual reason the departure was aborted, regardless it is certainly reassuring that the crew spotted whatever the problem was. The system worked.

That said, does the volume of incidents Flybe have had recently fall outside the bounds of ‘normal’ ? It feels like maybe the answer is at least ‘a little’.

[2Para]

Its quite a jump from any aircraft aborting a take off and 2para's rather doom laden "its only a matter of time". Really? Wise up!:ugh: Aborted departures, go arounds are surely part and parcel of normal aviation activity. Not really worth the doom laden prophets pretending they know something is about to happen.
Its a good job that we have smart arses about like you, panpipe, the world would be a dark and dull place without you.

[speedrestriction]

I suggest you would be under qualified to fly a kite, the telegraph and I news are broadsheet format, smartypants, U keep telling yourself that.😂😂

Well, as with your other posts, you suggest incorrectly. At a very rough and slightly conservative estimate I have shipped about half a million people into or out of NI over the past decade. You can trust me with your kite 2Para.

[West Brit]

Well, as with your other posts, you suggest incorrectly. At a very rough and slightly conservative estimate I have shipped about half a million people into or out of NI over the past decade. You can trust me with your kite 2Para.
you work for Stena or P&O?

[GAZMO]

From this mornings BT

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/flybe-forced-to-apologise-for-leaving-travellers-stranded-as-flight-to-belfast-grounded-38356160.html

[SWBKCB]

If airlines (and passengers) were prepared to pay for it, I'm sure ground handlers would love to have enough staff to cope with any possible peak in demand.

[midfieldgeneral]

Are Aer Lingus or ASL on their behalf continuing FAO and AGP next summer from BHD? The LHR flight is bookable but the two sun routes are not as far as the end of July 2020.

[Alteagod]

Surely you mean LHR?

[midfieldgeneral]

My mistake. Changed to LHR.

[Alteagod]

Not sure what EI are planning for 2020

[mart901]

https://nitravelnews.com/news/belfast-city-airport-makes-airport-of-the-year-final/

[mart901]

Not sure what EI are planning for 2020
Sunshine routes went on sale on or around 11th September last year.

LHR is on sale up to end of July which is about right for their scheduling.

[Alteagod]

Any update on EI next summer does anyone know?

[mart901]

Any update on EI next summer does anyone know?
I think last year it was exactly the same date as U2 went on sale.

[True Blue]

EI sun routes not returning in S20 as per BBC NI

[bhd1]

Confirmed from inside source that HOP will be will be soon announcing BHD-CDG 7 Days a week with a night stopping A/C. Vueling are also set to operate ALC,AGP,PMI Summer 20 as well as KLM going to two flights a day, BHD to announce mid OCT. BHD management have also been in contact with Lufthansa to operate a FRA route, A lot of Major European airlines see BHD as a feeder route into their long haul networks. I also hear that Stobart are also looking to BID for both BHD and BFS handling contracts,

[The96er]

I also hear that Stobart are also looking to BID for both BHD and BFS handling contracts,

Another handling agent entrant willing to do work fo peanuts !

[mart901]

Confirmed from inside source that HOP will be will be soon announcing BHD-CDG 7 Days a week with a night stopping A/C. Vueling are also set to operate ALC,AGP,PMI Summer 20 as well as KLM going to two flights a day, BHD to announce mid OCT. BHD management have also been in contact with Lufthansa to operate a FRA route, A lot of Major European airlines see BHD as a feeder route into their long haul networks. I also hear that Stobart are also looking to BID for both BHD and BFS handling contracts,


​​​​​​I'd be more suprised than anything if IAG gave up summer sun from BHD altogether, I was half expecting BA in some guise or another like they do from other UK airports. When Vueling pulled off BCN there was always talk they would return.

HOP and KLM sound more wishful than anything but it would be brilliant.

[Alteagod]

Meanwhile on planet earth!!!! I would suggest maybe one from that venerable wish list of routes. If I was to suggest any that had any weight, it would be VY next summer.

[2Para]

Meanwhile on planet earth!!!! I would suggest maybe one from that venerable wish list of routes. If I was to suggest any that had any weight, it would be VY next summer.
did vuelling not operate into bhd before?

[virginblue]

If Skyteam will indeed offer three daily flights to its hubs at AMS/CDG form BHD, I doubt we will see Lufthansa anytime soon. Lufthansa/Star Alliance is not serving BRS and has no proper hub-feed flights from GLA (just 1 daily) which are similarly sized markets. Maybe a seasonal, low frequency service that also caters for leisure pax.

[mart901]

did vuelling not operate into bhd before?
Yes BCN. The door was very much left open at the time

[mart901]

At the time Vuelling had just started BHD-BCN they were running a promo to win flight to BCN on CoolFM, from DUB......🤔

[DUB19]

What aircraft will hop operate and what times will the Second KLM Flight operate and the new HOP CDG route.

[Startledgrapefruit]

I just hope Startledgrapefruit isn't the source after their last exciting news!:=

Excuse me !!!!!
What I reported was actually happening

[EI-BUD]

Confirmed from inside source that HOP will be will be soon announcing BHD-CDG 7 Days a week with a night stopping A/C. Vueling are also set to operate ALC,AGP,PMI Summer 20 as well as KLM going to two flights a day, BHD to announce mid OCT. BHD management have also been in contact with Lufthansa to operate a FRA route, A lot of Major European airlines see BHD as a feeder route into their long haul networks. I also hear that Stobart are also looking to BID for both BHD and BFS handling contracts,

So a 'new poster' reveals all. It would be so nice if true, but this is highly questionable. Here are some points to.consider;

KLM has used E175's in September so far. The best they manage in the peak demand period in summer is an E190. If demand is so great why on the single daily rotation do we not see a 737-700, or why is it that we don't see 190's on a Sunday, probably the peak day for easyJet on the route.
EasyJet don't even run a daily flight on CDG. The largest demand on the Paris route originates in NI not France. Yet AF are proposed at daily. The demand is not on point to point and this is a battle that AF cannot win. It cannot compete with easyJet on a marginal route. If the desire is to pick up long haul pax to feed to the CDG hub, the question is why would AF KLM group want a 3rd daily flight from Belfast into their respective hubs. Could the proposed double daily KLM,s not satisfy these long haul connections? The USA is the largest demand, it's well covered by way of London and Manchester oh and Dublin too. KLM are well aware of the different tax regimes that are in place in DUB and NI.
Given that KL got an eye watering contrubution to operate AMS, will AF get the same?
So Aer Lingus a sister airline of Vueling exits its sun routes from BHD and there is no linked up narrative to create a cut over, ie on AGP?
ALC, PMI and AGP are such hotly contested routes ex Belfast, the demand is predominantly on the Belfast side and these routes have been tried and tested yet Vueling after abandoning BCN would come back now with not 1 but three routes..
BHD does not cater well for parking and the prices are eye eyeing, on this point alone the client will look to BFS...
Lufthansa will not come near the place. There are limited routes to Germany from Belfast and these gave been at best marginal, ie Berlin. Lufthansa have huge investment in Dublin and that market is flooded with over capacity and low prices, it's a blood bath and yet it is proposed that Lufthansa would want to fly direct to BHD...
Sadly all the challenges are up against BHD; short runway, restricted opening hours, no family friendly parking charges, staunch competitors up the road in Jet2 and easyJet, each with they own niche and loyal followings, and fierce competition with BFS for every new opportunity.

for all of the above and commercial reason, sadly these see will not see the light of day IMHO...

​​​​​

[Alteagod]

On just one point to note Tour operators block book a percentage af the FAO/AGP ex BHD so w ready market exists for those. When VY did BCN it was very badly marketed BUT a lot of the VY business they did get was onward connections from BCN so I don't think the door is totally shut on VY as for the rest of your post it is more or less spot on.

[mart901]

On just one point to note Tour operators block book a percentage af the FAO/AGP ex BHD so w ready market exists for those. When VY did BCN it was very badly marketed BUT a lot of the VY business they did get was onward connections from BCN so I don't think the door is totally shut on VY as for the rest of your post it is more or less spot on.

I would agree. Its a hefty chunk of business for IAG to let go of, highly lucrative. Both routes daily for several months and quite often full. Vuelling have a lower cost base than Aer Lingus, as had been said they did state they would look at a return to BHD in the future.

[EI-BUD]

I would agree. Its a hefty chunk of business for IAG to let go of, highly lucrative. Both routes daily for several months and quite often full. Vuelling have a lower cost base than Aer Lingus, as had been said they did state they would look at a return to BHD in the future.

mart901,
VY lower cost base? Source of info?
And don't need to tell you full planes don't equate highly lucrative. The transfer pax through BCN were low as were VY pax August 2015 there were 2784 pax on the BCN route or in return terms approx 1392.. weekly aversge based on that metric is 696 per week in total..

[mart901]

mart901,
VY lower cost base? Source of info?
And don't need to tell you full planes don't equate highly lucrative. The transfer pax through BCN were low as were VY pax August 2015 there were 2784 pax on the BCN route or in return terms approx 1392.. weekly aversge based on that metric is 696 per week in total..

Vuelling are not the child of IAG they were bought by them as an independent low cost carrier. At the time they were bought out IAG stated they had a lower cost base than EZY but not as low as FR.
EI, despite having pruned a lot over the years are heavily unionised and crewed from DUB as were ASL with DUB style wage bill, compare that to Spanish crew wages and you'll automatically find cost saving.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

BHD crew have a separate agreement within EI.

[mart901]

BHD crew have a separate agreement within EI.
BHD crew don't exist. The route is crewed from DUB, they start each day there and are ferried up.

[EI-BUD]

Vuelling are not the child of IAG they were bought by them as an independent low cost carrier. At the time they were bought out IAG stated they had a lower cost base than EZY but not as low as FR.
EI, despite having pruned a lot over the years are heavily unionised and crewed from DUB as were ASL with DUB style wage bill, compare that to Spanish crew wages and you'll automatically find cost saving.

This is an over simplified view. Not necessarily the case. Besides we are not comparing apples with apples.

​​​​​​In relation the the subsequent comment about EI crew at BHD, there is no crew base but many of the crew flying ex BHD live in the north, and fly from there.
​​​​​​

[True Blue]

VY has not had much success in the UK outside London

[PDXCWL45]

VY has not had much success in the UK outside London
It has at Cardiff.

[sinbad73]

If Skyteam will indeed offer three daily flights to its hubs at AMS/CDG form BHD, I doubt we will see Lufthansa anytime soon. Lufthansa/Star Alliance is not serving BRS and has no proper hub-feed flights from GLA (just 1 daily) which are similarly sized markets. Maybe a seasonal, low frequency service that also caters for leisure pax.

GLA has daily FRA and MUC with LH. What's not 'proper hub-feed' about that?

[GAZMO]

For Info

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/virgin-proposing-route-to-belfast-from-heathrow-38507447.html

When Heathrow extension ever gets completed!!!

[OneBellEnd]

Sounds remarkably similar to the Plan easyJet have for expanding at LHR - When the third runway is completed! Only this time with turboprops ..

[Alteagod]

Ones breath will not be held on this one just yet. But interesting article all the same.

[mart901]

This is an over simplified view. Not necessarily the case. Besides we are not comparing apples with apples.

​​​​​​In relation the the subsequent comment about EI crew at BHD, there is no crew base but many of the crew flying ex BHD live in the north, and fly from there.
​​​​​​

Doesn't work like that, EI employ everyone from DUB since they closed the BHD base, they start work at DUB and are ferried up. They are paid from Dublin and NI stamp is paid separately.
In relation to Vuelling Spanish wages are much lower, Vuelling pay some of the lowest in the industry, way lower than Irish salary scales, just a quick look on Google will tell you how poorly paid Vuelling crew are. Additionally Vuelling don't have the historic costs of being a flag carrier and have not had the trade union battles like EI have, the very reason for them being in the Belfast market in the first place was them threatening to run the operation from Belfast and or Gatwick to cut the union stranglehold.
When EI set up the two UK bases crew were employed on salary scales and terms similar to that of their biggest rival in the market EZY - they were subsequently employed from DUB on the same terms as everyone , trade unions wouldn't have people on inferior terms at the same base.

[MCDU2]

BHD crew don't exist. The route is crewed from DUB, they start each day there and are ferried up.

Nope. BHD based cabin crew do exist. Dublin CCMs cover the weekends and sickness/leave etc. Engineers are based locally as well. Flight deck do a mix of taxis and fly ins/outs through LHR. It varies depending on the time of year and even day of the week. Some of the flight deck overnight certain days of the week to cover the additional BHD-LHR flight.

[EI-BUD]

Doesn't work like that, EI employ everyone from DUB since they closed the BHD base, they start work at DUB and are ferried up. They are paid from Dublin and NI stamp is paid separately.
In relation to Vuelling Spanish wages are much lower, Vuelling pay some of the lowest in the industry, way lower than Irish salary scales, just a quick look on Google will tell you how poorly paid Vuelling crew are. Additionally Vuelling don't have the historic costs of being a flag carrier and have not had the trade union battles like EI have, the very reason for them being in the Belfast market in the first place was them threatening to run the operation from Belfast and or Gatwick to cut the union stranglehold.
When EI set up the two UK bases crew were employed on salary scales and terms similar to that of their biggest rival in the market EZY - they were subsequently employed from DUB on the same terms as everyone , trade unions wouldn't have people on inferior terms at the same base.
Again an over simplified view of the situation.

[DUB19]

Anyone know what’s going on with this HOP news? Is it Happening?

[Alteagod]

On the DSA thread that DSA-BHD-DSA now non op for winter

[BHD2BFS]

Yes media confirming DSA is dropped. It was being sold as a dash route from BHD

Not a good week for the airport. 3 routes dropped in a number of day.
Seems crazy how they are fighting for number 1 airport in the world yet have seen decreasing passenger numbers the last few years

[Alteagod]

They did get a nice seating area opposite House of Ireland

[EGAC is Better]

Seems crazy how they are fighting for number 1 airport in the world yet have seen decreasing passenger numbers the last few years

IMO the passenger experience remains significantly better than most other airports I have visited in the last few years.

Drop off area to breakfast in the lounge within 10 minutes at peak times. If I remember correctly, number of routes and passengers was not a critical criteria in the number 1 airport in the world competition.

[SWBKCB]

IMO the passenger experience remains significantly better than most other airports I have visited in the last few years.

Drop off area to breakfast in the lounge within 10 minutes at peak times. If I remember correctly, number of routes and passengers was not a critical criteria in the number 1 airport in the world competition.

Routes not critical? Drop off to lounge time is a bit pointless if you can't get to where you want to go!

[panpanpanpan]

https://www.belfastcityairport.com/News/BELFAST-CITY-AIRPORT-OF-THE-YEAR-AIR-CONVENTION

Well well, I suppose the question is will this lead to new business? :D

[EGAC is Better]

Routes not critical? Drop off to lounge time is a bit pointless if you can't get to where you want to go!

Regardless, my point still stands. If it went on ‘most routes is the best airport in the world’ then BHD wouldn’t have even got a mention, let alone make the final!

[Startledgrapefruit]

Bird strike on EI 930 this morning
awaiting reports of reports of "nearly killed by birds falling from sky in Stranmillis"

[Alteagod]

I believe there are some indications of high level talks on prospective new business but not at the frequency the original poster presented

[DUB19]

I believe there are some indications of high level talks on prospective new business but not at the frequency the original poster presented

Do you think KLM will introduce a second rotation? I can’t see CDG happening with HOP!, especially not at 7 weekly, and Vueling does seem realistic enough, it just may not happen

[garybell]

Don't know where to post this. 5 prop planes sort of diamond formation just gone round City Airport twice. Anything on airshow wise?

[Fly757X]

Don't know where to post this. 5 prop planes sort of diamond formation just gone round City Airport twice. Anything on airshow wise?

It was 4 Shorts Tucanos that are doing various flybys today over Northern Ireland. Presumably in commemoration of their production by Shorts before they retire.

[garybell]

Thanks for that.
I met a pilot in Florida about 20 years ago who trained on the Tucano, he said it was a superb aircraft. I think he was Army Air Force?

[Wycombe]

It was 4 Shorts Tucanos that are doing various flybys today over Northern Ireland. Presumably in commemoration of their production by Shorts before they retire.

Interesting thread over on the Mil forum re. Tucano retirement for those who may be interested!

[Alteagod]

As part of the ongoing program of operational resilience, the business has entered into a wet lease agreement with Stobart Air for two E190 aircraft. Discussions between the Commercial Department and Crew Resource Planning have highlighted Belfast and Edinburgh as the bases best suited to the wet lease. These aircraft will operate on the heavily subscribed routes into London City providing enhancements to our corporate markets from both locations.One E190 aircraft will be based at each of those locations, operating throughout the winter schedule from 01 December 2019. This will not affect the cabin crew numbers at either base, and the planned recruitment for EDI will continue, the wet lease, along with additional crew members will support and ease the operations out of both Belfast and Edinburgh. This will also free up a number of duty days providing relief throughout the winter for Belfast and Edinburgh where we have been particularly affected by crew shortages.If you have any questions, please make contact with your Performance Manager who can help answer any questions that you might have

Makes for interesting reading

[True Blue]

What about the mid-October announcement?

[DUB19]

What about the mid-October announcement?
May be a step further as Air France Today announced a second daily flight for ORK-CDG. Hopefully BHD will see this increase as well

[Startledgrapefruit]

Oh and the big announcement tomorrow is another Cinemagic one!

[Alteagod]

Where are they flying to...Narnia...Disneyland...the land of make believe!!

[DUB19]

Oh and the big announcement tomorrow is another Cinemagic one!
are they announcing something tomorrow? I’m not getting my hopes up after last time!!

[FFHKG]

Far too often, what is billed as a "big announcement", is far from significant to most of those receiving the message.

[DUB19]

Looking unlikely the “Mid October” announcement is happening. I guess the poster was to good to be true!

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe add new 3x daily BHD-SEN eff 1st June 2020, great news and helps to start expanding again!

[EI-BUD]

Flybe add new 3x daily BHD-SEN eff 1st June 2020, great news and helps to start expanding again!
You'd really have to wonder about Flybe.
The new strategy is enhance connectivity into VS network for starters. Easyjet flew SEN BFS at the get go of their SEN base. Loads were poor mid week, and while weekend was better, prices were usually much less than LGW and LTN or STN. It didn't last long.

I'm not persuaded by this development but best if luck to all concerned.

[mart901]

You'd really have to wonder about Flybe.
The new strategy is enhance connectivity into VS network for starters. Easyjet flew SEN BFS at the get go of their SEN base. Loads were poor mid week, and while weekend was better, prices were usually much less than LGW and LTN or STN. It didn't last long.

I'm not persuaded by this development but best if luck to all concerned.

When EZY started the route it was 2x daily and clearly too much capacity, at the time anyway. Then cutting it back to daily effectively cut out a huge chunk of business pax wanting day returns.
I suspect the planned 3x daily might be a bit much but time will tell. EZY have the STN route to themselves and there's plenty of people using it from parts of Essex etc that are closer to SEN, also the fact its BHD will hopefully be a further draw to business pax.

Strategy wise I think this is all about growing BHD-LON market share, BE have LCY to themselves and SEN will be too, nice safe distance from the competition. Having been pushed off the DUB - SEN route I'd imagine BHD is seen as good home territory, they're so well established here.

All that said, currently no official announcement yet, its just from someone's twitter feed.

[Alteagod]

That's a heck of a lot of capacity to London area next summer.

[True Blue]

Confusing strategy from an airline that was in very bad shape financially not many months ago.

[mart901]

https://www.flybe.com/media/news/1911/1113

Ahts us nigh

[DUB19]

Domestic

ABZ (-12) BHX (-4) CWL (-6) EMA (-11) EXT (-10) GLA (-23) LHR (-4) INV (-16) MAN (-2) SOU (-7) All down from Sep 2018

Carlisle performed well (777 Pax) working out at an avg load of 84%

International

AMS down 3% on Sep 18 working out at an avg loaf of 85% (29 E175 & 1 E190)

[Alteagod]

Not great reading. Explains the BE upcoming cuts. Good numbers on CAX.

[DUB19]

Confirmed from inside source that HOP will be will be soon announcing BHD-CDG 7 Days a week with a night stopping A/C. Vueling are also set to operate ALC,AGP,PMI Summer 20 as well as KLM going to two flights a day, BHD to announce mid OCT. BHD management have also been in contact with Lufthansa to operate a FRA route, A lot of Major European airlines see BHD as a feeder route into their long haul networks. I also hear that Stobart are also looking to BID for both BHD and BFS handling contracts,

Any news on this?

[Alteagod]

A bit harsh lol but probably true

[Startledgrapefruit]

I think the airline people seen were just inspectors
The car parks and PRM team all had audits over the last few months and 2+2=....