Stobart Air-2

[EI-BUD]

Is Stobart Air still operating the 2 jets for BA Cityflier at LCY, or has that stopped now.
No I believe. Of the 3 they have one is at Great Dane and the other 2 are stored in SEN and will go to Flybe in early December to operate for them on LCY routes

[Fly757X]

No I believe. Of the 3 they have one is at Great Dane and the other 2 are stored in SEN and will go to Flybe in early December to operate for them on LCY routes

Those are E190s EI-GHJ/HK that are going to Flybe. The 3 E195s are still with Great Dane.

[virginblue]

No I believe. Of the 3 they have one is at Great Dane and the other 2 are stored in SEN and will go to Flybe in early December to operate for them on LCY routes

Embraer 195 cannot operate from LCY.

[SWBKCB]

So, what is the happening now with Stobart Air? According to this link:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/stobart-group-ltd--stob-/rns/investement-in-connect-airways/202003050705181138F/Stobart Group's initial investment was made up through the sale of Stobart Air and its aircraft leasing business, Propius. As a result, the non-cash balance sheet impact on Stobart Group is £43.3m and the additional £7m investment made in 2020. The value of both these investments will now be written down to £nil on its balance sheet. The Group has also foregone deferred interest that it would have benefitted from in future periods. Stobart Group had not expected to receive a contribution from Connect Airways until after FY 2020.

Stobart Group have sold Stobart Air - this, along with the leasing firm, has knocked £50m out of their balance sheet.

Unlike Flybe, Stobart Air is not a wholly owned subsidiary of Connect Airways. Stobart Air's Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) controls 60% of the voting rights and Connect Airways controls 40%. As such Stobart Air's ongoing ability to trade is not directly impacted by the decision to place Flybe Limited into administration.

Stobart Air is now owned by "Stobart Air's Employee Benefit Trust" - (what is this and who controls it?) and Connect Airways (of which Stobart Group own 30%)

As a result of this news, London Southend Airport will see a short-term impact, with Flybe having planned to operate ten routes from the airport from Spring of this year. However, the long-term prospects of that airport remain compelling.

The implication here is that the new routes planned from SEN will not operate - I always thought they were basically Stobart flights (designed to show the airports potential?), merely being sold through the BE front end. Certainly, there seemed to be some tension at times between what was happening at SEN and the mainline flights.

Since BE failed, the IOM and SEN ops have remained grounded, one EMB is on the deck at EDI, and the other is now flying for EI. The EIR operation is carrying on as normal - with this operation descibed as being 'insulated' from the BE failure.

Who is in control now, and where do STK go next?

[Startledgrapefruit]

I would say not team up with a consortium for a few years.

[flyerguy]

I don’t think well be seeing STK start independent flying from SEN/IOM at all.

Think they’ll retreat back to Aer Lingus Regional and do what they know.

[vlieger]

I don’t think well be seeing STK start independent flying from SEN/IOM at all.

Think they’ll retreat back to Aer Lingus Regional and do what they know.

This seems likely indeed. All pilots in SEN have had all their flights removed from their rosters. I can’t imagine the communication about this being good so I feel for them.

[SWBKCB]

Anybody heard from Mr Tinkler?

[tophat27dt]

Anybody heard from Mr Tinkler?
Only what he said to the local press. You can read it on the Evening Echo site

[viscount3]

They appear to be training captains at stobart air https://www.stobartair.com/stobart-air-launches-2020-captain-training-programme-as-12-first-officers-graduate-to-captain/

[flyerguy]

They appear to be training captains at stobart air https://www.stobartair.com/stobart-air-launches-2020-captain-training-programme-as-12-first-officers-graduate-to-captain/

They still operate Aer Lingus Regional.

This was uploaded before Flybe’s demise hence the note to IOM/SEN

[DUB19]

any talk of Stobart/EIR launch BHD? Big opportunity for them

[The96er]

any talk of Stobart/EIR launch BHD? Big opportunity for them

Would certainly make sense. They have the aircraft spare, handling contracts in place. One assumes that any operation would mirror the ORK set-up which is at Stobarts own commercial risk which may be a factor as Stobart a likely to be a little more risk averse at the moment.

[ECR]

any talk of Stobart/EIR launch BHD? Big opportunity for them

I do think there is a chance of Aer Lingus Regional operating the route although would suspect it might be Cityjet operated rather than Stobart operated as Cityjet operate the existing London City route to Dublin.

I think Stobart would be crazy to attempt to operate under their own brand at the moment, but an Aer Lingus franchise might work.

I'm hoping, probably unrealistically, for BA Cityflyer on the route as it would open up the possibility of onward connections at London City as well as one and done traffic. BA don't seem interested in having franchisees these days (I know there is Sun Air and Comair) although BA Cityflyer does sometimes get other airlines such as Stobart, Loganair and Eastern to operate flights for them.

Aer Lingus Regional wouldn't offer the same in the way of connections as I don't think the current Dublin to London City Aer Lingus Regional flights are offered for sale on the BA website although I could well be wrong about that. To me much of the Aer Lingus Regional model seems to be based on providing feed for connections via Dublin with the one and done traffic being a bit of an add on to this. There is no opportunity for traffic connecting in BHD.

[Fly757X]

I do think there is a chance of Aer Lingus Regional operating the route although would suspect it might be Cityjet operated rather than Stobart operated as Cityjet operate the existing London City route to Dublin.

I think Stobart would be crazy to attempt to operate under their own brand at the moment, but an Aer Lingus franchise might work.

I'm hoping, probably unrealistically, for BA Cityflyer on the route as it would open up the possibility of onward connections at London City as well as one and done traffic. BA don't seem interested in having franchisees these days (I know there is Sun Air and Comair) although BA Cityflyer does sometimes get other airlines such as Stobart, Loganair and Eastern to operate flights for them.

Aer Lingus Regional wouldn't offer the same in the way of connections as I don't think the current Dublin to London City Aer Lingus Regional flights are offered for sale on the BA website although I could well be wrong about that. To me much of the Aer Lingus Regional model seems to be based on providing feed for connections via Dublin with the one and done traffic being a bit of an add on to this. There is no opportunity for traffic connecting in BHD.

Just a wee note,

DUB-LCY with EI is bookable through BA’s website, came across it by accident a few days ago. 😀

[ETOPS]

Just seen an Irish news report that Connect Airways are in Administration..........

Hope Stobart Air can be kept going.

[fanrailuk]

Stobart Air holding company falls into administration (https://www.independent.ie/business/world/stobart-air-holding-company-falls-into-administration-39055641.html)

[DUB19]

Stobart Air holding company falls into administration (https://www.independent.ie/business/world/stobart-air-holding-company-falls-into-administration-39055641.html)
What does this mean for Aer Lingus Regional?

[theexpandingman]

What does this mean for Aer Lingus Regional?
Nothing. Connect Airways have been in administration since 10th March, Stobart Air and the Aer Lingus Regional routes have not affected by the administration at all.

[flyerguy]

Connect Airways controlled 49% of Stobart Air which technically the 49% sits with EY, the administrators.

They are talking I believe but doesn't say specifically what.

[Sharklet_321]

So there are no guarantees then. Given what is going on right now I doubt that Aer Lingus will be able to prop them up. Perhaps they'll have to explore some sort of government buy out?

[EISNN]

Perhaps they'll have to explore some sort of government buy out?

If you mean the Irish government there is not a snowballs chance of that happening. It’s not detrimental to the running of the Irish economy or Irish society in a major way.

[PDXCWL45]

So there are no guarantees then. Given what is going on right now I doubt that Aer Lingus will be able to prop them up. Perhaps they'll have to explore some sort of government buy out?
Or just get Cityjet to replace them on the Aer Lingus regional contract.

[Sharklet_321]

PDXCWL45 now that would be interesting

[goldeneye]

Or just get Cityjet to replace them on the Aer Lingus regional contract.

I’m sure they would be bidding for it once the contract was up for renewal anyway so could be a good shout.

[MCDU2]

Was the EI Regional work not ring fenced to avoid this exact type of scenario? I seem to remember Willy Walsh confirming as much in a recent interview. When EI was a listed company and embarked on the EI Regional tie up with Stobart I think there was a complex sale and leaseback agreement of which EI took a stake. I don't know if EI sold its stake in Propius but in anycase there would be no shortage of takers to fly the routes when demand returns if it unfolds that Stobart is unable to operate the regional work.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-revives-14m-buyout-of-leasing-firm-from-aer-lingus-despite-scrapping-cityjet-merger-35358314.html

[ROKNA]

Was the EI Regional work not ring fenced to avoid this exact type of scenario? I seem to remember Willy Walsh confirming as much in a recent interview. When EI was a listed company and embarked on the EI Regional tie up with Stobart I think there was a complex sale and leaseback agreement of which EI took a stake. I don't know if EI sold its stake in Propius but in anycase there would be no shortage of takers to fly the routes when demand returns if it unfolds that Stobart is unable to operate the regional work.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-revives-14m-buyout-of-leasing-firm-from-aer-lingus-despite-scrapping-cityjet-merger-35358314.html

I believe Stobart group bought out the EI stake some time later

Good shout on Cityjet if they are still around they previously tried to tie up with Stobart in the past

[rowly6339]

Anybody heard from Mr Tinkler?
what has tinkler got to do with things?

[Buster the Bear]

The board of Aer Lingus Regional operator Stobart Air is locked in crunch talks with financial advisers, thrashing out options to save the business, the Irish Independent has learned.

Sources close to the situation said "all options are on the table", including potentially seeking court protection through an examinership if the board and independent accountants believe the company meets the criteria.

The situation creates major uncertainty for remaining workers at the Dublin-based airline, which before the coronavirus pandemic employed about 450 staff.

[Just a spotter]

From The Irish Times, 15th April 2020

Stobart is likely to seek protection from creditors and ask the High Court to appoint an examiner in coming days in a bid to extricate the business from difficulties it faces as a result of the travel bans that have grounded passenger flights. It is understood that the airline will apply to the court this week, or possibly next, depending on several factors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/covid-19-aer-lingus-regional-operator-eyes-court-protection-1.4228950

JAS

[SWBKCB]

“The company confirms that it is reviewing all options in relation to the future of Stobart Air and Propius during this unprecedented time including the possibility of acquiring the businesses from the administrators,” Stobart Group says in a stock market statement, noting Stobart Air or Propius are not themselves currently in administration.

”A range of discussions are ongoing and there is no certainty that any transaction will take place,” it says. ”The board of Stobart Group believes that Stobart Air and Propius have a viable future after COVID-19 and that by working with Aer Lingus as franchise partner it can place the business on a secure footing and manage the impact of guarantee obligations in a controlled manner.”


Flight - Stobart Group ponders move to buy back regional operator (https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/stobart-group-ponders-move-to-buy-back-regional-operator/137917.article)

[asdf1234]

Flight - Stobart Group ponders move to buy back regional operator (https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/stobart-group-ponders-move-to-buy-back-regional-operator/137917.article)
I think you will find that this is Stobart Group trying to avoid the administrators of Connect calling in the Stobart Group guarantees for the sale and leaseback deal on the ATRs. The guarantees could easily bring Stobart Group to its knees if the administrator was to push for an immediate cash call.

[SARF]

I think you will find that this is Stobart Group trying to avoid the administrators of Connect calling in the Stobart Group guarantees for the sale and leaseback deal on the ATRs. The guarantees could easily bring Stobart Group to its knees if the administrator was to push for an immediate cash call.
well that won't be happening anytime soon .. if there was ever a time to take the proverbial in business. this is it ...

[allan1987]

Stobart Group agrees to buy 49pc stake of Stobart Air for over €340,000

The UK’s Stobart Group has sealed a deal to buy a 49pc stake – and effective control – of Dublin-based Stobart Air for between £300,000 and £400,000 (€343,000 and €457,000).

https://www.independent.ie/business/uk-group-agrees-to-buy-49pc-stake-of-stobart-air-for-over-340000-39151870.html

[bean]

It's not effective control as the employee trust conyrol 51% I don't see how either party can expect to inject further funds to the airline in the forseeable future

[Buster the Bear]

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/stobart-group-ld-STOB/share-news/Stobart-Group-Limited-Acquisition-of-Stobart-Air-a/82310366

[Jenny Tails]

It looks as though Stobart Air are looking at opening a base on the Isle of Man (presumably when this blows over).

They would be familiar with IOM after being based their twice for Flybe. The LPL and MAN routes are presumably worth their while. Although it appears Loganair currentt have a 145 and an ATR42 based there at present. Turf war?

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-planning-for-future-base-on-the-isle-of-man-39181134.html

[Fly757X]

It looks as though Stobart Air are looking at opening a base on the Isle of Man (presumably when this blows over).

They would be familiar with IOM after being based their twice for Flybe. The LPL and MAN routes are presumably worth their while. Although it appears Loganair currentt have a 145 and an ATR42 based there at present. Turf war?

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-planning-for-future-base-on-the-isle-of-man-39181134.html

The ATR is there on-behalf of BACF. Could this new base be used for a franchise agreement between RE/LM? I could very well see it myself.

[JSCL]

The ATR is there on-behalf of BACF. Could this new base be used for a franchise agreement between RE/LM? I could very well see it myself.

I don't see LM getting in to bed with Stobart. Utilising their own fleet is going to be their biggest upcoming problem, let alone using someone elses.

[flyerguy]

It looks as though Stobart Air are looking at opening a base on the Isle of Man (presumably when this blows over).

They would be familiar with IOM after being based their twice for Flybe. The LPL and MAN routes are presumably worth their while. Although it appears Loganair currentt have a 145 and an ATR42 based there at present. Turf war?

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-planning-for-future-base-on-the-isle-of-man-39181134.html

Unless Stobart have a crystal ball and and have a psycic on the board of directors then I don’t understand where this has come from. They have no systems, they have ventured to the Isle of Man before, yes under flybe, so understand the operation. But the IOM government had them before COVID19 ready to operate flights and subsequently LPL/MAN went to Loganair. So I’m perplexed as to what they see, unless LM are pulling out.

my understanding is that Manchester route isn’t a ‘temp’ fix.

[allan1987]

Unless Stobart have a crystal ball and and have a psycic on the board of directors then I don’t understand where this has come from. They have no systems, they have ventured to the Isle of Man before, yes under flybe, so understand the operation. But the IOM government had them before COVID19 ready to operate flights and subsequently LPL/MAN went to Loganair. So I’m perplexed as to what they see, unless LM are pulling out.

my understanding is that Manchester route isn’t a ‘temp’ fix.

I have checked on the loganair website I see that last flight is on the 5th July from Isle of Man to Liverpool and Manchester
Also see that Easyjet dropped from flying once a day to flying twice a week from Belfast to Isle of Man from 1st June

[flyerguy]

I have checked on the loganair website I see that last flight is on the 5th July from Isle of Man to Liverpool and Manchester
Also see that Easyjet dropped from flying once a day to flying twice a week from Belfast to Isle of Man from 1st June

The Liverpool route keeps getting extensions, and EZY BFS was never Daily was only ever 2/3 weekly...

[SealinkBF]

IAG not giving any committments...

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/other-carriers-approach-irish-airline-in-bid-to-operate-its-regional-service-39189863.html

[commit aviation]

What you might expect from a business leader in the current market
Crisis = Opportunity
Effectively he has put a shot across the bows of both Stobart and LCY to be prepared to "sharpen their pencils" on costs.

[cornishsimon]

Or simply change the remit or BA Cityflyer to IAG Cityflyer and bring the EI regional operation back in house


cs

[shoe shine]

JT you mention that Stobart are planning an IOM base post this current crisis. I am hearing that they are also planning a significant base at BHD when the current crisis is over with costs being covered by local government. Anyone else picking this up?

[SWBKCB]

They might well need a UK AOC at the end of the year.

[allan1987]

JT you mention that Stobart are planning an IOM base post this current crisis. I am hearing that they are also planning a significant base at BHD when the current crisis is over with costs being covered by local government. Anyone else picking this up?

​​​I have seen this here about opening a base on IOM and Belfast City Https://independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-planning-for-future-base-on-the-isle-of-man-39181134.html

​​​​
​​​AER Lingus Regional operator Stobart Air is considering adding a new base in the Isle of Man, but the Dublin-based carrier has been told by Aer Lingus that it won't support any such move, the Irish Independent understands.

That would leave struggling Stobart Air having to deploy a new, separate booking engine for the new services.

Stobart Air and its Stobart Group owner have tapped the Isle of Man government for support, it's believed.

The carrier is also understood to be eyeing up a possible base in Belfast.

Stobart Air operates the Aer Lingus Regional service under a franchise agreement. The current contract expires at the end of 2022.

[Scottie Dog]

​​​I have seen this here about opening a base on IOM and Belfast City Https://independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-planning-for-future-base-on-the-isle-of-man-39181134.html

​​​​
​​​
Old news I'm afraid. Already posted above on 5th May.

[panpanpanpan]

Don't see any mention about Belfast City either, unless its hidden behind the subscription part of the article?

[flyerguy]

I think the following quote from Walsh on CH Aviation says it all “We have had a good relationship with them, but they got distracted by faraway hills,”

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/90194-stobart-air-to-face-competition-on-aer-lingus-regional-deal

So possibly Stobart are looking for other avenues to pursue should they loose the EI contract

But think realistically, which airline would sign a contract with them... LM have enough on there plate to deal with. That leaves Eastern, but we again I don’t see them rapidly expanding through Stobart?

Should EI not renew the contract, Stobart would most likely have to go alone.

[allan1987]

ATR 72-600 EI-GPN departed IOM to DUB today as SXI2025

I guess the 3 ATR 72-600 leased from Flybe from Chorus Aviation have been transferred to Stobart Air
​​​​​

[Red Four]

14th July according to here: Irish Times (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/stobart-air-to-resume-international-flights-from-july-1.4275345)

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0612/1147140-stobart-air-to-reduce-its-workforce-in-dublin-and-cork/

[EI-BUD]

2 Embraers being returned to the lessors and the latest 2 AT7s. (EI-GPN,GPO, GHK, GHK). If reported earlier on this thread, please ignore...

EI are not restarting DUB LCY (well not now anyway), the possibility of a Stobart Embraer on the route clearly wasn't an option, and clearly now won't be...

[JSCL]

It's interesting times for Stobart. I know they're very much at the fore and going up against Loganair in negotiations with the IOM airport to start ops, how they're going to handle that though I have no clue. They're going to have to drastically re-shape their business model to do that.

[Fly757X]

2 Embraers being returned to the lessors and the latest 2 AT7s. (EI-GPN,GPO, GHK, GHK). If reported earlier on this thread, please ignore...

EI are not restarting DUB LCY (well not now anyway), the possibility of a Stobart Embraer on the route clearly wasn't an option, and clearly now won't be...

Anyword on EI-GPP which is away to Sweden at present? Or has it already been returned?

[Alteagod]

Have heard murmurs of a rumour that Stobart will be taking over LCY BHD after the BE collapse. Again it was only the mearest whispers of a rumour

[SWBKCB]

Two issues for Stobart - they've always operated as a franchise, so haven't got any infrastructure to e.g. sell tickets in their own name, and with an Irish AOC, will they be able to operate UK domestic flights after 31/12? Oh, and the whole lack of money thing....

[Alteagod]

When has no money ever stopped an airline doing crazy sh#@ but yes point taken unless they operate under someone else

[BAladdy]

Have heard murmurs of a rumour that Stobart will be taking over LCY BHD after the BE collapse. Again it was only the mearest whispers of a rumour
ACL have this week published there LCY initial slot allocation report for W20/21 schedule. The report contains details of all new slot application and which of those have been granted. There is nothing in the report about Stobart applying for slots at LCY.

[SWBKCB]

But there is an application for BHD-LGW

[JSCL]

Unless I'm mistaken - often am - 72 isn't approved in to LCY and Stobart only has one 42 if I recall correctly. If the E jets are going, there's no scope in Stobart to fly in to LCY.

[Fly757X]

Unless I'm mistaken - often am - 72 isn't approved in to LCY and Stobart only has one 42 if I recall correctly. If the E jets are going, there's no scope in Stobart to fly in to LCY.

BCI/AUR have both used the ATR-72 into LCY in the past.

[ericlday]

According to Flight Global.....ATR has secured approval for its ATR 72 turboprop to operate to London City Airport.

The approval followed trials at the airport conducted on 30 January. (2009)

[BAladdy]

But there is an application for BHD-LGW
The ACL report does confirm that Stobart did apply for at LGW for a up to 20 x weekly (40 slots) service to BHD. However they have only been allocated 2 of the 40 slots they initially applies for.

[EI-BUD]

I can't see the logic of Stobart of wanting BHD LGW slots unless they were talking to Aer Lingus about operating it as EI franchise by Embraer, obviously before these airctaft were earmarked for withdrawl..
​​​

[Alteagod]

Did Stobart every do anything with Eastern or Loganair? I suppose applying doesn't meant intent I suppose.

[allan1987]

I wonder if this is something to do with Eastern Airways Seven new routes that was announced in March.
But held back until the end of peak of Covid -19.
Only one route is known so far is announced route for Southampton to Dublin.
Quite sure the other 6 routes are from Belfast City.

[SeanM1997]

I wonder if this is something to do with Eastern Airways Seven new routes that was announced in March.
But held back until the end of peak of Covid -19.
Only one route is known so far is announced route for Southampton to Dublin.
Quite sure the other 6 routes are from Belfast City.

Two other routes have since been announced:
Teesside - Newquay
Leeds - Newquay

It is likely Southampton and Belfast will have more new routes though

[Alteagod]

LGW seems to be one going by the ACL data, if i was forced to place a bet on others I would say LCY and MAN as strong contenders with possibly EDI or MAN as thd others but in covid times Timbuktu is as likey!

[bananamanuk]

According to Flight Global.....ATR has secured approval for its ATR 72 turboprop to operate to London City Airport.

The approval followed trials at the airport conducted on 30 January. (2009)
I believe it was actually Aer Arann , Stobart predecessor, that got the ATR72 certified for LCY ops. They used to fly LCY-IOM.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I am surprised that no one has reported this or have l missed it?
The closure of Stobart Air’s base at Southend airport with the loss of 66 jobs has been described as a “bitter blow”.

[Scottie Dog]

Interestingly Stobart have applied for an additional 1,144 movement slots at Manchester for the W20 period.

I doubt that all of them will be needed.

[flyerguy]

Interestingly Stobart have applied for an additional 1,144 movement slots at Manchester for the W20 period.

I doubt that all of them will be needed.


Most likely to be Belfast-City, if you look at the LGW. Stobart were granted slots to operate to BHD and so wouldn’t be surprised if there for the same reason here at MAN.

[allan1987]

Most likely to be Belfast-City, if you look at the LGW. Stobart were granted slots to operate to BHD and so wouldn’t be surprised if there for the same reason here at MAN.

Slots been granted to Stobart for Winter 20 at LGW, BHX, MAN and EDI which are likely for Belfast City

[Cyrano]

"Stobart Air was only saved to prevent group collapse - MD" (https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-onlysaved-to-prevent-group-collapse-md-39346410.html)

The Irish Independent reports (my emphasis):
Dublin-based Stobart Air, which operates the Aer Lingus Regional service, was only saved from receivership by the UK's Stobart Group to prevent the group itself from collapsing, the managing director of the Irish airline has confirmed.

In an internal Stobart Air memo seen by the Irish Independent which details minutes of a crisis meeting held two weeks ago, managing director Andy Jolly also said that Stobart Group has no intention of owning Stobart Air in the long term and won't bankroll an expansion the carrier had planned at Belfast and the Isle of Man.

The current contract Stobart Air has with Aer Lingus expires at the end of 2022.

[allan1987]

"Stobart Air was only saved to prevent group collapse - MD" (https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-onlysaved-to-prevent-group-collapse-md-39346410.html)

The Irish Independent reports (my emphasis):

I have heard that Stobart Air has applied for slots from Belfast City to BHX, MAN, EDI and LGW, if Stobart is not putting money towards this
they must be getting money from one of three places to run these either from NI Executive, Cyrus Capital or IAG
https://www.pressreader.com/category/tag-540250998

from this will just have to see what announcements come from Belfast City Airport this week and next, could be quite interesting

[Alteagod]

Would the backers of BHD potentially invest in airline to keep airport viable until such timex as it can be sold. The chat around BHD does seem to indicate thatvthe Sobart flights are happening

[Cozy F]

It's likely very much in certain people's interests to insist that these flights will happen. And they may well launch.

From the previous post it's likely that Cyrus and IAG won't be at the front of the queue to bankroll. And it will be interesting to see how the other named party squares off their participation in the project.

It does look very much like a house of cards waiting to unravel, particularly in the current operating environment, but then again time bought no matter how short will have a value to those directly driving the idea.

[True Blue]

So if the backers of Bhd provide support to Stobart, what will the other operators and Bhd think?

[Startledgrapefruit]

So if the backers of Bhd provide support to Stobart, what will the other operators and Bhd think?
BFS fan club cage rattled alert!!!
Probably not much difference to putting up money to start a route
One year left of 3 year deal and established routes for new buyer of airline.
Helps sell the airline and also safety net should EIR not keep the regional contract
Could probably put this in a better way but home brew is ready today for the weekend

[True Blue]

No Bfs fan club rattled here. I am just curious how some of the members of the Bhd fan club believe that an airline that was saved from bankruptcy very recently, as per the details in post No 581, quoting notes from a crisis meeting 2 weeks ago and that the airline was only saved to prevent the whole group going under, has the funds to start a bunch of new routes at Bhd?

[Sharklet7]

Does anyone have any informed indication on the level of investment that would be required for an airline to start new routes and open a base at Belfast City?

Will be interesting to see what new routes Brain Ambrose hinted would be announced within two weeks.

[SWBKCB]

Still got ATR's ex BE? Crew furloughed? Using EI for sales/bookings? If they have excess capacity would the start up costs be much more than continuing to do nothing?

[flyerguy]

Still got ATR's ex BE? Crew furloughed? Using EI for sales/bookings? If they have excess capacity would the start up costs be much more than continuing to do nothing?

The ATRs were Stobart metal
Crew Also but would need boring if opening a base in BHD can’t see the ex-SEN crew or IOM crew relocate to BHD
and I’m pretty sure EI said they don’t want anything with Stobart outside of DUB/Ireland

[EI-BUD]

In defense of Stobart, the facts are that their Aer Lingus Regional business has been successful and noted as the better piece of Stobart Group's portfolio in recent times. Airlines mostly everywhere have been immeasurably impacted by the pandemic and only a few are financially strong enough to weather this storm, and others get bail outs eg Lufthansa. The business will come back, timelines are unclear. So whether Stobart for a recent bailout of not is a mute point.

Airports investing in airlines is not customary, however if the owner of BHD did invest on commercial terms that's another matter.

I don't believe that the above investment scenario is on the cards. The fundamental issue here is about the brand and distribution. The EI contract has very limited time left, and its been publicly stated that EI will pursue all avenues in terms of the right airline for the franchise. What at this juncture is in it for Aer Lingus? Unless BHD has given concessions to EI on operational costs? These would apply to BA, under the IAG procurement umbrella. There is limited strategic value for EI in expanding the EI Regional brand at BHD. They add value feeding passengers into the TA network.

As a consequence Stobart will need to build a new brand for BHD. This doesn't sound promising to me. However, as a counter balance, encouraging to see BHD regaining some lost services via Loganair, Eastern and BA.


​​

[mart901]

Just worth pointing out EIR do routes from SNN and ORK which don't feed into DUB, in fact ORK has several routes to UK cities that have been mentioned as possible from BHD - MAN, BHX, EDI etc.

[EI-BUD]

Just worth pointing out EIR do routes from SNN and ORK which don't feed into DUB, in fact ORK has several routes to UK cities that have been mentioned as possible from BHD - MAN, BHX, EDI etc.
Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.
Jetmagic flew to Cork for a bit and had good loads. Just the wrong type of aircraft, but unknown name.
So it's possible if Regional do it for a bit then they become Air Arran (not Aer Arran) or FlyUThere name may not matter.

[Expressflight]

Stobart don't have a booking system and I simply cannot seem them establishing one now. Since the Aer Arann days they have operated under either the EI or BE reservations system and EI were not willing for them to use their branding for the SEN European routes, as had been originally hoped, so BE stepped in. The chances of a Stobart route network based at IOM and/or BHD looks very slim to me.

[Startledgrapefruit]

So you could end up with a Manx2 situation but better regulation. That would work !

[cumbrianboy]

Of course it is entirely logical that Aer lingus would be reluctant to have the brand used in Southend. What’s in it for Aer lingus. However .... Aer lingus have an established operation at Belfast city already and it would make commercial sense to expand that presence.

I don’t think any delay is coming from Aer lingus fo be honest

[mart901]

Of course they do Mart901, but in these instances they don't have the sort of competition that Belfast would have from easyJet etc. They are long established under the EI brand. Whereas 'if' the suggested BHD flights took off under the EIR brand, they may not be long lived in that guise if Stobart were not successful in maintaining the franchise.

The argument about competition is valid especially given the situation we are in now and the effect on demand. However BE were running 7x daily on similar sized aircraft on MAN/BHX up against U2. If you look at what LM are doing with GLA for instance - starting from just 2x daily, less than half the previous frequency with BE and smaller a/c, I seriously doubt these routes are totally unviable which supported high volumes at often higher fares than from BFS.
Also the EI brand is very well established here not only from BFS+BHD but also DUB where swathes of people drive to to catch flights from Northern Ireland.

[Jamie2009]

Pilot and CC jobs for Belfast are now advertised on their website.

[allan1987]

For Winter 2020 the ATR Planes based at airports need to be?

1x CFN, 2x ORK, 1x KIR, 5x DUB, 5x BHD
that is 14 ATR Planes I think will need EI-GPN back so to have 15 ATRs

[rhutch28]

For Winter 2020 the ATR Planes based at airports need to be?

1x CFN, 2x ORK, 1x KIR, 5x DUB, 5x BHD
that is 14 ATR Planes I think will need EI-GPN back so to have 15 ATRs

Do Stobart still have 2 Embraer E190 in the fleet, are they planning on using them are any of the Aer Lingus routes

[brian_dromey]

Do Stobart still have 2 Embraer E190 in the fleet, are they planning on using them are any of the Aer Lingus routes

They are still listed as being in the fleet on the various websites that track these things. AFAIK jets are specifically excluded from the Regional franchise. That might be limited to legacy EI bases like ORK, DUB and SNN. These things are up for negotiation, as the ASL 757s and CityJet ARJS show. I don’t imagine the EI pilot union would be too happy with Stobart operating E190s on BHD-LGW, but might tolerate LCY as it’s not A320 capable?

[EI-BUD]

They are still listed as being in the fleet on the various websites that track these things. AFAIK jets are specifically excluded from the Regional franchise. That might be limited to legacy EI bases like ORK, DUB and SNN. These things are up for negotiation, as the ASL 757s and CityJet ARJS show. I don’t imagine the EI pilot union would be too happy with Stobart operating E190s on BHD-LGW, but might tolerate LCY as it’s not A320 capable?
Both Stobart Embraers are currently in Farranfore and will be returned to the lessors.

[Red Four]

New Route Belfast to East Midlands: Leicester Mercury (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/new-route-between-east-midlands-4425059) :)

[DUB19]

New Route Belfast to East Midlands: Leicester Mercury (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/new-route-between-east-midlands-4425059) :)

This along with five other routes was announced weeks ago.

[rowly6339]

Talks on the sale of Stobart Air begin

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/928344/stobart-group-confirms-early-stage-discussions-with-a-number-of-parties-regarding-the-potential-sale-of-itsstake-in-stobart-air-and-propius-928344.html

[allan1987]

CityJet owner Falko in talks to acquire Stobart Air
The Stobart Group plans sale of the Aer Lingus Regional operator

The UK's Stobart Group is in advanced talks to sell its Dublin-based Stobart Air unit, which operates the Aer Lingus Regional service, to aircraft lessor Falko, the Irish Independent has learned.

It's believed that the deal could ultimately be worth more than €20m.

https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/cityjet-owner-falko-in-talks-to-acquire-stobart-air-39502051.html

Looks like could be CityJet, Stobart Air and Air Nostrum all in one Regional Airline Group

[southside bobby]

How many more rolls of the dice for most of those?

"Regional Airline Group" sounds rather grandiose...The impression with Stobart Air is that it is a fire sale/required sale for the Stobart Group to relieve itself of debt that has accrued with it`s miscalculations in the Airport & Airline divisions over the period.

A deal would be dependent on Stobart Air retaining the EIN franchise of course & perhaps IAG/EIN will push for an even tougher deal themselves now.

[allan1987]

How many more rolls of the dice for most of those?

"Regional Airline Group" sounds rather grandiose...The impression with Stobart Air is that it is a fire sale/required sale for the Stobart Group to relieve itself of debt that has accrued with it`s miscalculations in the Airport & Airline divisions over the period.

A deal would be dependent on Stobart Air retaining the EIN franchise of course & perhaps IAG/EIN will push for an even tougher deal themselves now.

It depends if the CityJet Air Nostrum merger still goes ahead.
Seeing that Stobart Group need money it will a quick sale
And there is more than just one company interested in buying Stobart Air.

[davidjohnson6]

Can somebody explain to me why anyone would want to buy a small regional ACMI airline without any substantive public-facing brand right now when air travel demand is unlikely to return to 2019 levels for at least a few years

[Expressflight]

southside bobby

It isn't so much that Stobart Group urgently need the cash from selling Stobart Air as that situation has eased following the recent shareholder fundraising exercise. The problem is that the past Propius fleet sale and leaseback deal left the Group with a future substantial potential financial liability - that's why they bought Stobart Air back from the Connect Administrators. That aspect will need to be passed on to Falko for the deal to go ahead.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Can somebody explain to me why anyone would want to buy a small regional ACMI airline without any substantive public-facing brand right now when air travel demand is unlikely to return to 2019 levels for at least a few years

Yes indeed, I’m struggling to understand that myself!

[southside bobby]

Stobart raised £100m from "investors" in June to shore up its balance sheet.
Propius is another aspect of the financial mire associated with the Groups pretty disastrous foray into aviation.
The rail business has already been unloaded for a nominal sum.
Common factors in play with the latest revelations are Dublin-a familiarity between all & both operators loaded with debt which Falko seemingly is not adverse to.
The only "prize" at eye level viewing appears to be the IAG/EIN franchise.
A pertinent question possibly given the stated desire/need of the Stobart Group to exit Stobart Air where next if the "deal" falls through coupled with IAG/EIN playing extreme hardball re the franchise renewal as WW at IAG signaled previously would be the case.

[Expressflight]

southside bobby

As you say, it is important that the Group can dispose of Stobart Air/Propius in a fashion that relieves them of the potential financial liabilities and without an EIN franchise renewal, or extension at the very least, that will be difficult. Of course CityJet/Air Nostrum were, if I remember correctly, the main competitors to Stobart Air in that regard. Maybe EIN would see a sale to Falko as being in their best interests as well. They naturally want a stable franchise partner and this could be the best way of achieving that.

[southside bobby]

WW seemed to indicate a search for a franchise partner does not have to be limited.
CityJet regarded as a competitor with/for the franchise so perhaps they/Falko are looking to "eliminate" the incumbent eventually in the negotiations for a nominal sum along with Falko assuming debt which in their business affairs they are not averse to.
Perhaps break clauses in the Franchise can ultimately be effected before 2022 but IAG/EIN hold all the cards.
Anyways it appears the revolving doors will be working overtime in Dublin.

[DC3 Dave]

Whatever the outcome you can be sure it’s unlikely to meet with the approval of Andrew Tinkler.

“Facts Warwick Brady CEO in the last 2 years has lost S/H £762m a average of £31.7 per month this must be close to winning him a OBE. Well done Stobart Chairman & Board of directors you all deserve a Medal for your efforts for protecting Stakeholder value 🆘”

[southside bobby]

Good point re Mr T...He is obviously in the wings (pun acknowledged) observing & waiting...waiting.

That`s an awful lot of money.

[southender]

To be fair to Warwick Brady, Coronavirus has thrown a really large spanner into Stobart’s finances.

[allan1987]

Good point re Mr T...He is obviously in the wings (pun acknowledged) observing & waiting...waiting.

That`s an awful lot of money.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/stobart-group-ltd--stob-/rns/statement-in-relation-to-press-speculation/202009041540381219Y/

Since more than one party is interested

Im sure Mr T is wanting Stobart Air

I would hazard a guess and say might at one party interested could be T3 as they are looking for a code share for Teesside to Heathrow Route
and that would make it easier to get EIN franchise extended?

[Bradan feasa]

And Aer Lingus seems to have had a very good experience with ASL Airlines operating B757s for it transatlantic and ASL seems to have a good reputation with the likes of DHL operating a wide range of aircraft types ...

[MCDU2]

Lets not mention the ASL 737 in BHD though.....

[Alteagod]

It wasn't great but not the worst idea.

[CabinCrewe]

Unlikely, but could IAG show any interest given that a lot of the EI regional routes are DUB feeders? Terrible timing though.

[southside bobby]

independent.ie reporting EIN regional ops have now gone out to tender.

[LTNman]

“Stobart Air is operating below the scenarios set out at the time of the capital raise due to the continued quarantine arrangements in Ireland, with limited flights operating," it noted in its trading update.



https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/quarantine-measures-hit-stobart-harder-than-expected-39580887.html

[Buster the Bear]

independent.ie reporting EIN regional ops have now gone out to tender.

I bet Cityflier bid...........

[southside bobby]

In many ways that notion makes a lot of sense with perhaps the capacity of the EMB being the largest drawback.

[RJ100]

I bet Cityflier bid...........
I very much doubt it. CF management do not have the capacity to think outside the box. Under the current manager they have no desire to operate anything other than the LCY operation. The current leadership team withdrew CF from the regional summer flying program before we’d even heard of COVID-19. That summer flying boosted CF revenue by millions per year.

[southside bobby]

IAG Board/management v CFE management one wonders who is ultimately the stronger then?

[TOM100]

Are the management that poor that they would withdraw if it was profitable flying ? Revenue doesn’t necessarily equate to profit.

[TartinTon]

RJ100

I'm sure it did but I'm assuming that the additional positioning in/out costs every week weren't insignificant....

[southside bobby]

The question was...
In the event would the CFE management be capable of withstanding pressure & direction from the IAG Board if it was thought a benefit & strength to the Group to have a feeder op inhouse.
Appears it could make sense in the new extraordinary world, the one drawback being the capacity of the Embraers.

[southside bobby]

Conor McCarthy founder of Dublin Aerospace & an ex non-executive Chairman of Stobart Air has reportedly entered the race for the EIN Regional contract.

[southside bobby]

Stobart Group looking to a name change evidently.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/96612-dublin-aerospace-boss-sets-up-new-irish-carrier

[airbourne]

Nobody was interested in the regional routes or PSO a few years back. In comes Arran/Stobart and they do a decent product and now everybody wants a sniff at it.

I think the incumbant has this in the bag!

[Albert Hall]

That sounds as overly-optimistic as a Trump supporter saying the same thing.

Rumour has it that there are six bidders involved. Stobart will be one and this paper airline must be the second. With another four out there and no names as to who they are, I don't think it would be wise to assume or presume anything.

[harriewillem]

This white label or ACMI flying in the regional industry is very very marginal, historic has been and with the current market it wont be a goldmine now... with now even more "bidders" hunting for it the one that "wins" it is the one who is taking the most "commercial" risk themselves meaning spiral rat race to the bottom on price and conditions.

Also I presume, I do not know, but that the contract will be trimmed down... no one is flying at the moment so EI will not ask the historic routes and frequenvies I would say, and what are the fecking unions saying... can imagine they will raise their voice too on "stealing" the work, although EI has no capability themselves.

[SWBKCB]

With another four out there and no names as to who they are, I don't think it would be wise to assume or presume anything.

Aren't CityJet one?

[JSCL]

Aren't CityJet one?

I'm not so sure on this one personally. The CRJ900 will likely have performance issues out of some of the shorter runways such as BHD in wet conditions and if they're talking about E Jets, then maybe but this would be driving up the operating costs of routes which are efficiently served by props.

I imagine XFly will be after the work with SAS reducing ATR aircraft count. But the reality is, there's such an abundance of readily available 72-600's in the leasing market that it could be anyone's game if they are prepared to take on the fleet type.

[brian_dromey]

I'm not so sure on this one personally. The CRJ900 will likely have performance issues out of some of the shorter runways such as BHD in wet conditions and if they're talking about E Jets, then maybe but this would be driving up the operating costs of routes which are efficiently served by props.

I imagine XFly will be after the work with SAS reducing ATR aircraft count. But the reality is, there's such an abundance of readily available 72-600's in the leasing market that it could be anyone's game if they are prepared to take on the fleet type.

I think most of the CRJS are spoken for, working with SAS? IIRC SAS might even own/lease these and lease them to CityJet? Originally EI were involved in the Proprious leasing deal, but later sold their stake. I wonder if they still have any call to the aircraft, if the EIR contract were to be retendered? Im not sure that EI are necessarily married to the ATR either. It is almost ideal for the routes they are using it on, but EIR was set-up using the ATR because that is what Aer Arann had at the time. Which also raises the question about what are Stobart routes and what are EI ones? Is the franchise just the right to use the EI brand, marketing and systems? Would there be anything to stop Stoabrt operating the EIR route network under their own brand? Im not sure if it would be viable, which is another matter.

[harriewillem]

- PSO is not up for tender, that is won by Stobart but flown as EI Franchise..
- EI Franchise is up for tender..

This is not a straight forward wet lease... their is commercial risk on the operator... I would think twice on it... but maybe 50% loss is better as a 100% loss...

[southside bobby]

Stobart Group has been forced into a defence mode statement saying they are still solvent after the (rumoured) loss of the of the Regional flying contract.

Stating too that the Directors stand by their recent assessment from 5.11.20 that the business is a going concern.

The numbers & liabilities appear very "interesting" however.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Its not a rumour, they have been told so by Aer Lingus.
Following info from Travel Weekly.
Stobart Air has been told that it will no longer run regional services for Aer Lingus.
The Irish carrier informed parent company and Southend airport owner Stobart Group that Stobert Air is not the preferred supplier for a new commercial deal which would have started in January 2023.
Stobart Air will continue to operate the Aer Lingus franchise until that time.

[RJ100]

I'm sure it did but I'm assuming that the additional positioning in/out costs every week weren't insignificant....
The first year CF did very well crewing the flights from IBZ,AGP,PMI etc, positioning crews out to via LCY. The following year they crewed the flights via taxi to BRS,BHX. This was the down fall. Loads of delays due to traffic and delayed Taxi’s. A days flying followed by a long taxi back to LCY. Increased fatigue and sickness.

[SWBKCB]

Stobart Group still intends to divest its regional operator Stobart Air by the end of the financial year, despite Irish carrier Aer Lingus’s deciding not to renew a franchise agreement with the company.

Aer Lingus has been using Stobart Air for regional connections for several years and Stobart Group had aimed to enhance the attractiveness of the carrier to a potential buyer by sealing a long-term agreement with Aer Lingus beyond 2022.

Brady states that Stobart Air can “enter negotiations” with Aer Lingus’s chosen franchisee given the “anticipated interest” in the Stobart fleet of ATR turboprops. Stobart Group has a right to break early from its lease agreement of eight ATRs in April 2023, if it is not awarded the franchise deal. This would cost the group $21.2 million, plus finance and maintenance fees.

Stobart Group points out that its investments in Stobart Air and Propius are fully written down. It states that Stobart Air will continue to provide a “high-quality service” to Aer Lingus for the remainder of the franchise term. “It is well placed to build on eight years of reliable, customer focused connectivity between Ireland and the UK and utilise its European air operator’s certificate to operate out of Ireland and seek further franchise or independent flying arrangements,” the group adds.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/stobart-group-still-plans-airline-exit-despite-aer-lingus-franchise-setback/141139.article

[allan1987]

That makes sense with Emerald Airlines might buy Stobart Air


“Emerald Airlines looks forward to these negotiations in the coming weeks with a view to concluding a binding contract and progressing with our ambitious plan to roll out a fleet of 15-plus ATR72 Aer Lingus-branded aircraft from Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Shannon,” he said.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-poised-to-award-regional-contract-to-mccarthy-s-emerald-airlines-1.4409692