Eastern Airways-2

[Fletch]

Flybe delays & cancellations: teething troubles or a sign of things to come? | Shetland News (http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/15137-flybe-delays-cancellations-teething-troubles-or-a-sign-of-things-to-come)

Strange quotes from the flybe chap. Soo.. Eastern crews lack the experience compared to Loganair, couldn't hack it on the day so didn't land is what he thinks :ugh: Also, there's a shortage of crews so this could be the norm for the next 2 months... Quite a unique USP there! Can't see that driving business.
If he's not going to admit commercial have messed up with the aeroplane type, at least he could have thanked an experienced crew for operating in challenging weather conditions (yes it's a daily event there however it's still challenging), but safety being their number one priority choose correctly to divert.
Well done to the crews for showing more professionalism, experience and common sense than these three.

[oapilot]

Well said. Hope the crew weren't rewarded with a "lack of moral fibre" speech.

This also implies that Flybe pilots are going to operate Easterns 170. Had heard a rumour that they were lending some spare 195 pilots to cover crew shortages, anyone able to confirm this?

[Reversethrustset]

Nothing heard from inside Flybe.

[Harry Wayfarers]

I’m no genius, but when you’re missing an airplane it’s fairly obvious no one is going anywhere.”

He's right, he's not a genius, it's an aeroplane mate :)

[jamestkirk]

It's funny but sad at the same time. Flybe has good intentions but Eastern did and will let them and their pax down. The moronic EA commercial department probably and again incompetently thought that pax would prefer a jet. Anyone will tell you the locals have been travelling on that route for decades and don't give a Sh&t as long as it's reliable. All of us know that bit EA will ignore that as they seem to know better.
Most EA pilots (who have not left) are very experienced on the shetlands. And I would not be surprised if many of them raised the issue of wind shear detectors on the EMB. And I would totally not be surprised if their opinions and professional judgments were completely ignored by some elements at HUY who have no conception of reality.

In the end and most importantly it will be the customers who suffer. Followed by the EA crews (the ones left that I know) who are very competent at what they do. And of course Flybe, who obviously want it to work.

[SealinkBF]

I disagree completely that Flybe have good intentions.

Good intentions would have maintained the codeshare with Loganair.

[Rivet Joint]

Apologies if I have missed it, but who made the decision to end the franchise with Logan? Was it BE or Logan?

[Reversethrustset]

Get over it SealinkBF. There's clearly reasons why the codeshare with Loganair has ceased. I'd rather we weren't into bed with any of them but it's not what I want that counts. End of the day it's called business. Loganair need Flybe as much as Flybe need them, probably not at all.

[jamestkirk]

Yes. You are right. It's just going to be a competition between all three of them. I wonder who will win:O
Sealink. Their intentions are to create business and profit, which is good. The reasons they left the agreement with Loganair; I have heard rumours, but I could not comment as I really don't know.
As I said before, in the end it's the passengers and us as flight crew who may suffer from incompetency.
I'm not biased. I worked for Eastern and the crews are just brilliant. I know, work and done type ratings with Loganair people who are again, lovely, talented people. Flybe crew are just the same.
My point is only aimed at the senior management who think and believe they are aviation royalty with an intellectual finger on the pulse of aviation, but turn out to be nothing more than vermin road kill.
Is that a bit strong.

[Flightrider]

Jamest - I think it fair to say that I've met a relatively small number of people from each of the pilot and airline management fraternity over the years who might class as vermin roadkill, but most in both walks of life have been decent people trying to do a job to the best of their abilities - which have also varied. Those who fall into the vermin roadkill category tend to have one thing in common - they think that each could run an airline without the other. Management-hating pilots and pilot-hating management are not good, for the truth is that both groups are absolutely necessary for an airline to function.

Just going back to the Shetland items posted earlier...

Flybe man:
He said that wind direction was a factor along with wind speed, but rather than a systemic issue it was something he hopes will be remedied “as the operators on the jet aircraft become accustomed to the airport and get comfortable with the length of the runway and the approach".

“It’s more of a teething issue [than anything else],” he told Shetland News. “Loganair pilots at this stage would have more experience operating [in and out of Sumburgh], but they will rapidly develop that expertise.

And the report from the passenger on the flight in the other article linked:
A few minutes into the landing sequence, the pedal was back to the floor and I briefly thought I could hear some noise from the turbines. The captain came over the tannoy and announced that wind conditions had exceeded the airplane's limits and we would have to circle.

"Exceeded limits" I thought to myself; visions of an American-style hurricane was currently underway beneath me. The captain then came back on the tannoy and announced the winds were a constant 38kts, which prevented, by law, the airplane to land at Sumburgh.

So either a/ the Flybe spokesman is a total ignoramus when it comes to aircraft operating limits and thinks this is an issue of pilot experience or b/ he is openly suggesting that as the pilots gain more experience at LSI then they'll become prepared to bust minima? I hope not and am sure both Eastern and Loganair would have something to say about that. Either way, this bloke should not be let near a media interview to talk about operational stuff, surely?

[jamestkirk]

I know what your saying but please;

None of that I said, I know a bit strong, is aimed at any of the flight crew. And actually at some of the management. I have always maintained that the DFO there (EA) is a great guy. And just to clarify that the strong classification I wrote is not in any way towards anyone at Logan or Flybe.
Its a pretty safe bet I meant an individual at EA that has cost the company adversely millions. If your at EA then you know who I am referring to. So my meaning was very specific.
And yes, I agree, there are great people out there doing great work in a demanding and sh/t industry. I really like and respect the people in the airline I work for now.
My point was that when you see shear and unswearving incompetence getting away with murder for years whilst the talented people on the coal face are being treated with contempt; it's a bit pants.

[Flightrider]

jamest - yes, i know what you're saying!

[oapilot]

I'm curious as to the benefit to Eastern in all of this. OK, if they succeed in getting the routes to a profit that's an obvious win. But...
They didn't have the crews to run the pre-franchise operation.
They are wetleasing in multiple aircraft to plug the gaps in their schedule created by the increased workload involved in the franchise.
The franchise routes are too thin for multiple carriers, so it's going to come down to who has the deepest pockets, and I don't see Loganair giving up their routes in a hurry.
None of this can be great for an airline which posted a loss last year, as it must be costing a fortune. Unless Flybe are really bankrolling the whole thing.
Would love to know who phoned who first, but suspect that's another question with an answer that depends which side of the fence you are on.

[Harry Wayfarers]

They're applying band aid's to an injury that needs major surgery!

[01475]

If there's one thing an airline that charges what Eastern does needs to be it's reliable.

[SealinkBF]

Apologies if I have missed it, but who made the decision to end the franchise with Logan? Was it BE or Logan?

Each airline claims they ended it.

[TartinTon]

Flybe wanted to jack up the franchise fee and Loganair didn't think it was worth it.....depends which side of the fence you are on I suppose...did Flybe push the amount up so far that they knew they wouldn't pay it or did they just screw up?

[01475]

I keep wondering what a flyBe website user is going to think if they come across an Eastern fare. The website probably doesn't attract people that want to pay Eastern fares, and unsuspecting users coming across them first time around (possibly also applicable to Blue Islands fares but maybe less so) might not hang about.

Would someone who came across Eastern's Southampton - Rodez or Belfast - Newcastle fare hang around to look at Southampton - Toulouse, or Belfast - Leeds? Or would they run a long distance and quickly?

I'm wondering if they should have created a different brand for Eastern flights; flyBE executive or something?

[RAFAT]

jamestkirk - I know both of those you speak of and totally agree with your character assessments of them. I agree that the second person you mention MUST have cost the company millions in the past and it's shocking that he's still there and allowed to play such a big part!! :mad:

Flightrider - I came to the same a) & b) conclusions as you after reading the comments of the Flybe spokesman and agree that he shouldn't be let near the media again until he expands his aircraft and operational knowledge.

[SealinkBF]

I have to say I'd rather be on this aircraft going to Shetland...!!

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/images/stories/1709/170901_Flybe_arriving.jpg

[NorthSouth]

There must surely also be a question about the sustainability of an E170 operation. They have 50% more seats than a Saab 2000, 124% more than an SF34 and 162% more than a J41. They must surely be flying with lots of empty seats now, and that must also be true even without competition on the route. So they would have to make decisions about reducing frequency, which won't endear them to their customers.

[canberra97]

According to ch.aviation Eastern were supposedly accepting delivery today of the first of two leased ATR72-600's.

[scr1]

So they cant take disabled passengers

Flybe apologises to wheelchair user over Glasgow to Stornoway flight - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41205085)

As a lot of pax are paid for by the NHS needing treatment on the mainland this is not good

[Harry Wayfarers]

The problem with Saab 2000s is that they are getting old, are not that reliable and are expensive to operate. It is a shame that there is not a good, modern replacement for such routes as Sumburgh.

But the S2000's are a similar age if not newer than many a SF340 that are still flying around whilst, I think, the S2000 remains the world's most advanced turboprop.

I did some work with Carpatair when they operated some 15 S2000's, provided they are well maintained with an appropriate spares back up they can be very reliable.

[Robert-Ryan]

So I heard a few weeks ago that Eastern were getting rid of the Saabs because they were either expensive to operate or on expensive leases, can't remember which, and that they were getting ATR72s instead, and lo and behold today they register the first one. A couple of questions; 1) how do you replace 9x Saabs with 2x ATRs and 2) where did this order even come from? It was never announced in a press release nor does it appear to have been siphoned off Flybe's order for SAS, so what did they do? Phone ATR and ask if they had any kicking about that they could have?! :eek:

[The96er]

so what did they do? Phone ATR and ask if they had any kicking about that they could have?!

They're leased from Nordic Aviation Capital.

[Robert-Ryan]

But wouldn't such a lease have been arranged months ago and resulted in a press release? I've never known an airline take delivery of a shiny new state-of-the-art fleet and not shout about it from the roof tops

[lfc84]

Does this mean the LCY-IOM service operated by Eastern for BA Cityflyer won't be Saab 2000 anymore and will become ATR72 ?

[Harry Wayfarers]

So I heard a few weeks ago that Eastern were getting rid of the Saabs because they were either expensive to operate or on expensive leases, can't remember which, and that they were getting ATR72s instead, and lo and behold today they register the first one. A couple of questions; 1) how do you replace 9x Saabs with 2x ATRs and 2) where did this order even come from? It was never announced in a press release nor does it appear to have been siphoned off Flybe's order for SAS, so what did they do? Phone ATR and ask if they had any kicking about that they could have?! :eek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_2000

Some smaller airlines, including Eastern Airways in the UK, have subsequently acquired 2000s at low cost and operated them on regional routes which experience lower passenger numbers as well on shuttle services in the U.K. for oil and gas personnel working in the North Sea

[inOban]

The piece in ch-aviation suggested that they were specifically for oil personnel charter work to Scatsa.

[SWBKCB]

The a/c registered to Eastern is a new frame. Jethro has "to be based Aberdeen"

[dc9-32]

G-IACY, MSN 1448 was ferried LFBO-LFBF (for painting) on 09SEP17.

[Richard Taylor]

For those 'in the know' the 'IAC' part of the regn is a pretty good clue it will be in ABZ for the SCS oil flights, as IAC (integrated Aviation Consortium I think it stands for) is the conglomerate that makes use of the flights, made up of a number of oil cos and Bristow.

[SWBKCB]

Thanks Richard - knew the registration was ringing bells for some reason!

[mmeteesside]

Are they only getting two ATR72's? I thought there was three Saabs allocated on the Scatsta flights?
Either way I guess one should replace the Etihad one on lease

[cabsav]

Airbus (yes airbus) owed Bristows a favour and gave them the ATR's, which they owned (airbus). Something to do with helicopters.
I hear Saab will stop supporting the 2000 in 2020. Brilliant aircraft so it will be a sad day when that happens.

[virginblue]

How is that "Airbus gave them the ATRs" possible if the aircraft are leased from Nordic Aviation (which is majority owned by a Swedish investment fund)?

[cabsav]

I have been told by EA staff.

Airbus owned them, for whatever reason. There was some issues with helicopters in relation to Bristows. As a deal, airbus gave the ATR's to Bristows/Eastern for the Shetland operation. EA needed a replacement for the Saab so I suppose it's a win win for everyone.

The financials, I obviously know nothing about.

[LesPretend]

The ATRs will be 'ring fenced' for the integrated IAC contract that Bristow lead with Eastern as a contractor to BRS. I would find it highly unlikely they will be bombing around doing anything else as the IAC will expect these aircraft to be available for Scatsta services (with a back up Saab).

You can't underestimate the importance that Bristow place on the IAC contract and rightfully so.

Its a significant part of their revenue and it's the jewel in the crown of all the offshore contracts in the UKCS.

Unfortunately for BRS the make up of the IAC is about to radically change as the bigger companies sell on their assets to companies who are not traditional BRS clients. Babcock and Loganair are being positively encouraged to sniff about and that could be disaterous for BRS and as a consequence EA.

With renewal not being far off it's in both companies interest to pull out all the stops to keep it. With the well documented losses and share price plummet over the last few years, loose the IAC contract and its not worth thinking about for BRS and as a consequence EA.

It's a perfect storm for EA no matter what you think of them they would be getting absolute dogs abuse if they hadn't taken on the FlyBe work, coupled that with the ATR introduction and it's not ideal, but it's vital that priorities don't get skewed.

They are both going to have to be VERY careful that irrevocable damage isn't done as gaps have started appearing in the Scatsta schedule as the program gets stretched and you can't imagine that hasn't gone unnoticed by the IAC.

The negative press around early FlyBe disruption and cancelling scheduled flights with senior oil co execs on board isn't helping either.

I've read a lot of stuff recently that's patently not true about the relationship between the two companies, there are lots of parts of both EA and BRS that are good and other parts not so, but loose the IAC contract and it's serious serious stuff for both companies.

Lets hope they can work through it.

[24138]

I see Eastern Airways web site saying Darwin Airlines now operating IOM-Newcastle via Belfast on a SAAB 2000. Does anybody know why the change?

[HH6702]

Lack of own aircraft or crew or need bigger aircraft for loads

[Harry Wayfarers]

I see Eastern Airways web site saying Darwin Airlines now operating IOM-Newcastle via Belfast on a SAAB 2000. Does anybody know why the change?

I recall when I worked for Air UK during one 90 minute period when my oppo was at lunch, all had been quiet when he went to lunch, I sub-chartered in six aircraft from such operators as KLM, Gill Air, Brown Air, South East Air, TALAIR and by the time my oppo returned from lunch we would thereafter joke that the blood vessels were protruding from my head whilst I had a Captain on the Ops desk manning the telephones.

I'd hate to be answering to some of you lot "why the change of aircraft?" or similar, providing that they are shifting the passengers is it really that important what type of aircraft or operator is operating it?

[Tinwald]

at 200 quid plus for a 20minute flight from Belfast to the rock next month theyll have no need for all those seats an the saab

[Harry Wayfarers]

I see Eastern Airways web site saying Darwin Airlines now operating IOM-Newcastle via Belfast on a SAAB 2000. Does anybody know why the change?

Quite often on an ACMI contract there is a dictated minimum or maximnum number of hours, i.e. one can't hog a whole aeroplane and crew(s) and only operate them when it suits, and one pays for the minimum number of hours whether one utilises them or not, so I'd imagine that Eastern sare doing what is most economical given the circumstances.

[BAladdy]

I am guessing the lease on the Darwin S2000 is due to end on 29SEP17 as it is no longer showing as operating any T3 flights after that date.

The AIS J32 looks like it will based at NCL until end of October....

[LesPretend]

They also seem to have some involvement with the Air Canada Jazz (Operated by Backbone Aviation) CRJ that's around at the moment.


It operated on an EZE call sign from LPL to FAB last week but since then I have not seen it on FR24 etc. Perhaps its down there for maintenance?

[goldeneye]

The Eastern flights for Winter 2017 onwards are now bookable on flybe's website. These are the original T3 flights to operate as a Franchise, this is in addition to the JV on the Scottish Islands.

[BAladdy]

Backbone Aviation CRJ, is currently operating from BRS on behalf of BM.

[Chidken Sangwich]

No it's not, Backbone don't currently have any of their own Aircraft. The Aircraft in BRS is operated by ProAir on behalf of Global Reach Aviation along with sister ship D-AGRA. Don't believe everything you read on FR24 as they can't be bothered to update their database.

[BAladdy]

Anyone know why flights from ABZ-LSI are not available to book on BE’s website for flights from 25MAR18?.

The daily flight to EDI and GLA is showing available to book for S18.

[BAladdy]

Looks like Eastern are planning to combine there flights to ABZ from HUY and MME. From 6th November flights from HUY will operate via MME in both directions.

[Richard Taylor]

I think that had to happen. There just isn't sufficient traffic to sustain HUY-ABZ direct anymore & presumably MME is similar so probably sensible to combine them, at least for winter. I doubt the traffic will ever come back.

[N707ZS]

Will they sell the HUY MME sector? or will that just be part of the flight that you cannot by tickets for?

[SealinkBF]

Had a look on BE website and that sector cannot be booked.

[Flightrider]

I doubt the traffic will ever come back.

It definitely won't come back at £482 return for a one-stop service from Humberside via Teesside to Aberdeen. You're now paying more for the inconvenience of a stop. Genius.

Very strange move - looks like an SB20 on the morning and evening and a JS41 on the middle one. Related to shortage of crew?

[LBIA]

So guess that means Teeside base closes & Humberside switches to Saab 2000 base

Wonder what they will do with the 2x Jetstream 41s and crews that this frees up?

[JollyTraveller]

Had a look on BE website and that sector cannot be booked.
I would expect them to start selling the Durham Tees Valley - Humberside route if it's going to be scheduled route.

Lots businesses and people from both regions have interest in both regions due to renewable energy and Oil & Gas / chemicals Industries etc. being big in both regions.

[Rob Royston]

So what is the script with the 2000 that went into the grass at SYY? Used edge lights as taxiway centre line lights..?

I've only seen this so far, seems to be the same report as on the BBC website. The Stornoway Gazette makes no mention of it on their site, but they are carrying a Flybe advert and the same advert full page in their print editions.

Stornoway airport plane incident (http://www.hebrides-news.com/stornoway-airport-plane-incident-161017.html)

[BAladdy]

Looks like NWI-ABZ is being dropped as well from the end of October. There are currently only southbound flights available to book through BE website.

ABZ-NWI and NWI-ABZ flights were showing on BE’s online timetable until a day or two ago

[01475]

I was just looking at the flyBe routemap including Eastern flights. At first I got excited about all the potential connections off the Anglesey flight and thought they could really help numbers take off...

... and then I realised that very few of the connections work :-( This is a terrible shame!

[BAladdy]

Think it might be a problem with the website as just looked at there online timetable for flights from EDI and the schedule being displayed is the one for W15/16

[BAladdy]

ABZ-NWI available to book again

[oldart]

So guess that means Teeside base closes & Humberside switches to Saab 2000 base

Wonder what they will do with the 2x Jetstream 41s and crews that this frees up?
Looking at the summer 18 timetable it would appear that MME will have a based aircraft again. Also the Humberside flight is direct again to Aberdeen, but you know Eastern, things could change again.

[virginblue]

I've only seen this so far, seems to be the same report as on the BBC website. The Stornoway Gazette makes no mention of it on their site, but they are carrying a Flybe advert and the same advert full page in their print editions.

Stornoway airport plane incident (http://www.hebrides-news.com/stornoway-airport-plane-incident-161017.html)

29 pax - is that an average figure?

[NorthSouth]

So what is the script with the 2000 that went into the grass at SYY? Used edge lights as taxiway centre line lights..?Easterly wind gusting 33kts around that time - maybe a factor?

[Harry Wayfarers]

An Air UK F27 did that at ABZ one winter time, lined up with the runway centreline lighting, commenced it's take-off run, went roaring off down the runway and it was onlly once it had exited the ARP that the Captain came to realise that ABZ didn't have runway centreline lighting!

That was the second incident from the same Captain in quick succession to each other and as I recall he was given 24 hours to resign.

[Richard Taylor]

Indeed he did HW, I remember it as well. I think from my hazy memory it either had been or was snowing at the time.

[CabinCrewe]

29 pax - is that an average figure?
Way higher than average!

[Harry Wayfarers]

Indeed he did HW, I remember it as well. I think from my hazy memory it either had been or was snowing at the time.

Yes, snow was a factor.

The incident prior to that the same Captain had had a hot start, flames out the side of the Dart, not sure if he blew a fire bottle before, he jumped out the DV window leaving the passengers and all on board watching their Captain running across the tarmac :)

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if T3’s S2000, G-CFLV is in temporary storage or has it left the fleet?

Also when will the ATR start operating to Scatsta?

[EGPO]

That ATR Was back in HUY Yesterday. Seems to spend time going HUY-DTV-ABZ And back .
Some days I think but don't source it's flown to Southampton to DTV From HUY.
Once NWI - HUY - DTV -ABZ.
In answer I thought I'd seen it on FR24 Down at 14000 feet heading North from Sumburgh a couple of weeks back . No destination and Scatsa didn't record it as being on the ground after watching it land there .

[oldart]

That ATR Was back in HUY Yesterday. Seems to spend time going HUY-DTV-ABZ And back .
Some days I think but don't source it's flown to Southampton to DTV From HUY.
Once NWI - HUY - DTV -ABZ.
In answer I thought I'd seen it on FR24 Down at 14000 feet heading North from Sumburgh a couple of weeks back . No destination and Scatsa didn't record it as being on the ground after watching it land there .

Yes it did some crew training at Scatsa before returning to MME direct.

[LesPretend]

Also when will the ATR start operating to Scatsta?


It starts on Mon 13th (yeah I know) Nov.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if T3 are planning to add BE's livery to any other aircraft in the coming weeks and months?. Also when are T3 operated flights beyond mid June expected to go on sale through BE's website?.

[Flightrider]

Apparently no further aircraft to be painted at this point. I guess schedules will depend on them finding some passengers. Carrying two at a time on the Embraer 170 as they were doing today isn't exactly productive.

[Richard Taylor]

Even less productive for BE.

[RAFAT]

I don't think any of us are surprised at the way this is going are we?

[mmeman]

Also 2 passengers on last Wednesday's tea time flight, MME-ABZ in the ATR. I think there was about 18 on the Loganair.

[oldart]

Concerning the ATR, would they be able to train pilots and carry fare paying passengers at the same time? Any passengers would help cut the cost of retraining pilots.

[tescoapp]

to convert a pilot to a new type is 2 weeks ground school followed by 10-16 sessions in a full motion simulator.

After that they go into whats called line training which is done with pax in the back.

The stuff that's done in the sim can't be simulated in the real aircraft and the stuff that can I doubt you would have much repeat custom from PAX if you subjected them to it.

Regulations came in years ago to prevent type ratings being done on an aircraft if their is a simulator available. So even if they did want to they can't now. In the past Eastern did used to do some conversions on aircraft such as Jetstream 32 to Jetstream 41. But its illegal now.

[Harry Wayfarers]

And something like 6 circuits and bumps in the aircraft, sometimes the simulator though, that passengers cannot be carried in.

Then, dependant upon operator ops manual, for the first few line training sectors a third (safety) pilot may be required.

[tescoapp]

True I was thinking of my last conversion, which was a zero flight time rating.

Although with the ATR it wouldn't surprise me if the Sim cost plus hotac etc plus payment for the TRE in Sim plus TRE line training Captain for the first 4 sectors wouldn't be the same as doing 4 circuits in the aircraft anyway.

Anyway your looking at about 40K per pilot converting onto type and it taking at least 3 months to get them released to line. And even then it will take 100 hours of flying after that to be become completely de-restricted for low vis stuff and flying with other inexperienced crew possibly also they will have lower xwind limits as well depending on what the SOP say.

[oldart]

Thanks for the info about type ratings, that probably explains why the ATR flew to Scatsa and looks like it did the touch and go's there.

[tescoapp]

Scatsa there could be a few reasons why they did that.

There is a thing called area and aerodrome competency for Captains.

Scatsa at 1360meters is pretty short and it only has offset none precision approaches. So they may have a requirement to tick a box for the aerodrome competency to allow the captain to operate in there.

It might be something like self brief and 200 hours on type or 2 touch n goes with a TRE to get an immediate sign off. As they will want everyone to be able to operate into there quickly they go for touch and goes.

I really don't know, as that sort of stuff will be subject to the flight ops inspectors requirements.

Per say I don't think any TRE is going to go and do circuits at Scatsa if they can help it with new on type pilots.

[Richard Taylor]

So with the end of Flybe flights in the new year t/f Sumburgh, what will Eastern do with their E170s? Do they still have work for them?

[oapilot]

Speculation is the white one will go back to the BACF contract and the other one will be doing ABZ-LCY. Apparently it was never the plan to keep it on the LSI route beyond the new year. All crew room gossip/theory of course.

[oapilot]

Hard to say, EA crews are often the last ones to find anything out.
That said, Flybe’s motives and judgement in opening up these routes to the level of competition that a direct head to head with Loganair bought is questionable to say the least. Filling an aircraft with a proportion of cheap seats is great, but look at other places where it works for them and the islanders would have been stuck with 2 or 3 rotations a day to get full aircraft and a successful route.
Of course it’s a nice Teflon get out to say it was a great idea to run a 170, it’s the right aircraft and it didn’t work because our new friend wasn’t up to it.
Whether it was the right aircraft or not we won’t know now as they never tried to get in or out with 70 pax, even on a good weather day. Personally I prefer to trust the pilots who had the opinion that it was definitely not the right aircraft, either financially or operationally.

[cabsav]

Flybe will probably try and save face by not binning EA altogether. People generally are not good as saying they’ve made a ridiculously stupid decision.
EA have done a good job at bringing down the reputation and probably lost money for Flybe. Any further involvement with EA is pure insanity. But I fear ego’s will be the primary concern not future profitable sustainability.

[SealinkBF]

Isn't there a five year agreement?
I can't believe Flybe didn't see this coming.
I wonder if they will now codeshare with Loganair?

Shetland News image (of course, Flybe were never 'Here Yesterday' as it was always Loganair.)

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/images/stories/1712/Screen_Shot_2017-12-08_at_16.51.48.png
Flybe's Ronnie Matheson behind his company's tag line, which did not quite come to pass. Photo: Shetland News

[SealinkBF]

Business is business though, and Loganair might be keen to get into the regions that Flybe serves.

But yes, I totally agree that Flybe have done themselves no favours and indeed, still compete in KOI and SYY.

[S92PAX]

I can't see Eastern surviving in any form. Too many cancellations often at very short notice on their old established routes are forcing us to use alternative modes and routes. Their customer service is appalling. If you need to be in Aberdeen at a certain time don't fly with this lot.

[tescoapp]

There are crew that worked at eastern when they first went to HUM who left predicting that they would go under soon due to crewing to incompetency and constant operations stupidity.

They even at one point had 20 odd hire cars out on hire sitting in a car park in Nairn one of them had been their for 6 weeks. It was only discovered apparently when the hotel owner complained that he was running out of car parking space.

Eastern is still running 15 years later. And the word from the guys who have escaped recently is that the place is exactly the same.

[01475]

The timetable says that, compared to the Eastern of 15 years ago, current Eastern is showing signs of starting to flap around looking for a role and not necessarily finding it.

Businesses have less money for flights, passengers are more tight, bigger airports are less welcoming of smaller planes, regional flying is less of a Thing all over Europe, and having been forced out its comfort zone Loganair is a real threat to what is left.

[HH6702]

Doesn't sound like a happy ending for eastern

[dc9-32]

Eastern is still running 15 years later. And the word from the guys who have escaped recently is that the place is exactly the same.


Change the management and things will change.

You can't blame the ops staff for an airline's failing overall. They do what they are told by those above and it is those above that need to go.

Alas, until Eastern folds, they won't be going anywhere.

Just my opinion.....

[fjencl]

I was reading somewhere last week that there is another ATR 72-600 coming to eastern airways and will be operating from February 2018. Any ideas where it will be operating out of.

[cabsav]

all correct BUT;
oil revenues are massively down. EA used to get circa £2m a month from the SCS contract irrelevant if flights done. Now its per pax. RL had a captive audience with pilots as there were no jobs but its different now.
the commercial department think of passengers as dog food and are so incompetent they dont realise its their money it needs to survive.
I too were a doomsayer and am surprised they lasted this long.
I do believe with all this and the recent financial losses that the perfect storm is brewing

[Mike Flynn]

Airports such as Norwich are still promoting Eastern. The sad facts of life suggest with high fares and low passenger numbers their routes are doomed.Norwich depends on Eastern,Loganair,Flybe and KLM supported by oil industry traffic and expensive tickets.

[NickBarnes]

Tbh though Norwich passengers numbers have increased on most routes looking at all the stats except Aberdeen which continues to decline, which tells you everything

[Mike Flynn]

I see you live in Diss Nick as I did some years ago when I would use Norwich.

However the airport is a an expensive 3rd world nightmare for those of us who fly long distance. Just google it or look at Skytrax.

It might work with a decent low cost operator but KLM are too expensive. Loganair and Eastern are also geared to the oil industry traffic. Eastern and Flybe are not in the same league as Ezy and Ryanair.

The whole pack of cards will tumble soon.

I have just flown 3 hours 40 minutes Bangkok to Hong Kong on an Air Asia Airbus for £55 and returned Macau to Bangkok with Air Asia for £60. Cost of living in Hong Kong is more expensive than the UK.

Those numbers make a mockery of airports such as Norwich and small airlines such as Eastern with 26 seat aircraft.

The one hour flight from Norwich to Amsterdam is around £150 with KLM.

Norwich to Aberdeen is £75- £100.

Plus of course the 'departure tax' of £10.00 for little more than a shed full of surly staff.

[Jerry123]

You can't compare a low cost airline and a market in different part of the world with an airport like Norwich or airlines like Eastern Airways. As for KLM their main market is onward connections not point 2 point and they know that the people who want the convenience of traveling from their doorstep will pay for it.

[Mike Flynn]

I disagree Jerry.


I actually learnt to fly at Cardiff 36 years ago and understand the problems. There is nothing conveniant about flying long haul from Cardiff or Norwich via Schipol as this usually involves a long layover. Heathrow is more convenient to both the above local airports to fly direct long haul and much cheaper. Cardiff and Norwich both suffer from a low catchment area.

I guess you have never had the misfortune to be stuck in Amsterdam after a long haul flight when the regional connection is cancelled.

It happens on a regular basis.

Nothing can beat Heathrow for cost and destination.

As for KLM long haul...I guess you don't travel to Asia much.

[NickBarnes]

I agree Heathrow is better, but nobody can deny to continue success of KLM's operation throughout the UK from the airports you mention

[Mike Flynn]

KLM are both expensive and poor long haul operators.

If you have ever had the misfortune to fly to Asia with them then you will know they abysmal service on old aircraft with cabin crew to match.They are years behind Eva or China Airlines for price and service.

Their UK and European Cityhoppers are expensive to say the least.

Give me Ryanair any day. New fleet with young cabin crew and cheap fares.

I avoid traditional flag carriers who charge big money for low quality service.

Cardiff and Norwich are both around 2.5 hours from Heathrow with direct global flights.

A one way car rent is only £80 making the Schipol cost option a dead duck.

But back to Eastern...operating 28 seater aircraft to tiny UK airports is not a great business model. Their reliabilty is very poor alongside Flybe. Add to that the £10 tax departure and stasi type security staff at Norwich and you have the perfect deterent for passengers.

[Richard Taylor]

Eastern still have bmi for company on the ABZ run as well. Goodness knows how either make any money from it nowadays.

[Jerry123]

I have plenty of experience using KLM and Schipol travelling to the Portland Oregon in the US. I do it a couple of times a year to go see my partner. Compared to using Heathrow like my parents did recently and the 5 hours round trip for me to go get there and back traveling via Amsterdam is a doddle. Even my parents said next time they'll look at flying from Cardiff.
I've never had a flight cancelled but I have missed connections due to the weather, fog in Amsterdam. KLM put me in a very nice hotel and paid for a very nice meal and travel to the hotel and back so no complaints there. I've also found that generally price wise it's cheaper as well even cheaper than the direct flight out of Heathrow that started this year.
I pick Cardiff every time, i even have the choice of coming home via Paris CDG as well though that isn't as easy to transit as Schipol.

[01475]

I'm sure Eastern will be around for a while; but maybe just not necessarily operating non-PSO scheduled services?

Someone tell Eastern's website person that they are advertising a 1 hour round trip flight from Aberdeen on Thursdays, though?

[BAladdy]

BACF are leasing a E70 from T3 for just over 2 months from 22JAN to 24MAR. The aircraft will be based at LCY and will be used operate the following flights.

BA7301/BA7302 - LCY-LIN-LCY (Mon-Sat)
BA4455/BA4456 - LCY-RTM-LCY (Mon-Fri)
BA7305/BA7306 - LCY-LIN-LCY (Sun-Fri)

[Mike Flynn]

Looking at Eastern schedules I see a round trip from Humberside to Aberdeen costs between £298 and £358.

I can go long haul for that.

To make matters worse the trip takes 1.45 due to a stop at Durham.:eek:

I guess like all the flights on the east coast the price is designed to milk those in the oil and gas industry.

[SWBKCB]

But if you want to go from Humberside to Aberdeen whats the alternative? 6hrs 45 on the train (two changes) or 7hrs (400 miles) by road. You pays yer money and takes yer choice.

[fjencl]

Does Eastern airways have a crew base at London City Airport...????

[BAladdy]

Does Eastern airways have a crew base at London City Airport...????
I don’t think they have a base at LCY. I believe they have crew based at:ABZ, NCL, LBA, MME, HUY, BRS, IOM, NWI and RDZ I think they also might have also opened a crew base at GLA when they started operating from there for BE.

Does anyone know if there are crew based in CWL for the VLY flights?.

BE’s daily flight to BHD from ABZ are now showing as being operated by T3 from Mon to Sat using a E70 starting next week.

Monday to Friday

BE1361 ABZ 07:25 LCY 09:05
BE1362 LCY 09:35 ABZ 11:55
BE153 ABZ 11:55 BHD 12:55
BE154 BHD 13:20 ABZ 14:20
BE1365 ABZ 17:20 LCY 19:00
BE1366 LCY 19:30 ABZ 21:00

Saturday

BE153 ABZ 11:25 BHD 12:25
BE154 BHD 12:50 ABZ 13:50

Sunday

BE1036 ABZ 12:55 MAN 14:05
BE1037 MAN 14:30 ABZ 15:45
BE1365 ABZ 17:20 LCY 19:00
BE1366 LCY 19:30 ABZ 21:00

[Jerry123]

I believe they do have crew based at CWL as well as engineering support.

[EastMids]

BE1362 LCY 09:35 ABZ 11:55


Two hours and twenty minutes? Something's not quite right there!

[01475]

Maybe they've built in some slack to meet the 0m turnaround.

[BAladdy]

Yeah should say 11:05 not 11:55.

Looks like the E70 operating on the the ABZ to LCY and ABZ to BHD routes is only a temporary thing as flights from 25MAR are showing as being operated by a DHC8.

[BAladdy]

As i mentioned in a earlier post, One of T3’s E70’s is being leased to BACF for approx 2 months . The aircraft will be LCY and will be operate to LIN and RTM. Coincidently the lease to BACF ends the day after the other E70 is due to op it’s last LCY flight.

I have heard that T3 are planning to rotate the E70 crews at LCY so that no one crew is based at LCY for more than 2-3days max. Can anyone confirm that the E70 crews are ABZ based?. If they are then that would make sense.

[BAladdy]

I think BACF might be regretting leasing the G-CIXW from T3 to operate on there behalf.

On Thursday the aircraft made a airbourne return to LCY due to a technical fault. Resulting in the cancellation of BA7305/BA7306 LCY-LIN-LCY rotation.

Yesterday afternoon the same aircraft had to replaced by a BACF E70 (G-LCYE) to operate the same rotation. Un sure if this was due to a tech problem or crew shortage. This resulted in the cancellation of the LCY-FRA-LCY rotation that the E70 should have operated.

Then this morning the aircraft has had to make yet another airbourne return (route used posted attached). Resulting in yet another round trip being cancelled. Does anyone know what is wrong with this aircraft?.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Does anyone know what is wrong with this aircraft?.

Yes, it has a techincal issue!

[Wolfgang5150]

The issue being it`s run by cowboys :sad:

[Harry Wayfarers]

Well at least the so called cowboys can spell "airborne"!

[cabsav]

Ive heard that half the fleet is going this year. Has RL had enough after the £3.6m loss. Has bristows had enough.

[Jerry123]

Any idea what aircraft they are getting rid of? The J41s? The Sabbs and E jets?

[Chidken Sangwich]

Saab’s....

[RAFAT]

They won't bin the J41s until they absolutely have to; they are a reasonably reliable fleet to be honest.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Most aircraft are reliable if the operator has an appropriate spares back-up ... The one exception to that rule being the ATP :)

[Skipness One Echo]

Has only a single aircraft, one J41 been painted in flybe colours? Doesn’t the franchise agreement say if we are going to sell all of your flights for you as “flybe” you have to at least embrace our branding?

[Mooncrest]

MAJK is the sole purple Jetstream. I reckon it's at least the fifth paintjob it's worn.

[22/04]

Aren't SAAB stopping support for 2000 in 2020 so wouldn't it have to be phased out by then anyway?

[Alteagod]

I hear eastern basing an airframe in BHD from March. Any truth in this do we know?

[SWBKCB]

Aren't SAAB stopping support for 2000 in 2020 so wouldn't it have to be phased out by then anyway?

Is this right - I know the airline fleet isn't huge but they've been selling AEW and special mission versions in the last ten years or so

[Harry Wayfarers]

https://saab.com/civil-aerospace/Regional-aircraft/regional-aircraft/saab-340-2000-support/

As the original manufacturer of the Saab 340 and 2000 we have a deep knowledge of our regional aircraft fleet and are committed to its long-term future.

As part of our thinking edge, we strive to deliver long-term support services and aircraft enhancements to make sure that our operators can keep flying the Saab 340 and the Saab 2000 for the next 15 years and beyond.

[ATIS31]

Flybe end SYY - GLA and ABZ - KOI leaving Loganair to operate routes. What routes are left that they are competing with Loganair on ? Are there any islands routes left ?

[SWBKCB]

ABZ-MME :O

[fjencl]

Price war to end on Scottish island routes - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-42945584)

[Alteagod]

Any update on BHD ops?

[cabsav]

I hear redundancy notices and GLA closing.

[BHD2BFS]

Moving GLA to BHD?

[LBIA]

How many aircraft are based at GLA?

[RAFAT]

Apparently Eastern will release all of their reservations staff soon as everything will be done through Flybe. Great, so when (not if) Flybe realise that partnering with Eastern was a huge mistake (if they haven't already) and bin the partnership, Eastern have no reservations staff! Doh! RL really does take the p~~s sometimes!

[cabsav]

Eastern is a rival of flybe. flybe goes into partnership and lets ea use their back office systems and prop them up financially. flybe are the total idiots here. I will give RL credit for making flybe management look like sheep on smack.

[LBIA]

Less staff at Eastern = More money for RL before he and Bond Aviation Group break up the airline.

I actually think they will sell off whats left of the schedule airline business to Flybe.

Eastern Airways will then become a ad-hoc charter airline. operating the profit making oil/gas and Airbus charter work.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Except that their true identity is Air Kilroe ... Eastern Airways went t1ts up in the 1980's

[Jerry123]

Hopefully they'll include PSOs in that!

[01475]

While Eastern has made some problems for itself, you do also have to feel for them. They are scrabbling about trying to find the biggest role they can have in a market where roles for people like them are fast disappearing. By no means at all are either all or the most serious problems (like bigger airports being less welcoming to small aircraft as they approach capacity) of their own making.

Taking on Loganair may have been fated to be a disaster, but it's one of few things they could try in a market where almost anything they might manage to make a go of would immediately be grabbed up by someone with bigger planes! Given that FlyBe has been a previous beneficiary of that, having a link with them isn't the most insane idea. And given that they carry so few pax a day, having their own reservations staff was perhaps a luxury they couldn't afford, while trying to market only their own flights was perhaps a headache looking for somewhere to happen.

There is a role for a respectable operator of small aircraft (ManxWing2 perhaps best showed the need and the opportunity), but it's a role that it is hard to carry out in isolation.

[Mike Flynn]

Eastern focussed on the the micky mouse airfields such as Norwich and Humberside feeding Aberdeen.

As such they are very vulnerable to the North Sea gas and oil industry which is in decline.

[01475]

It was a good thing to focus on for a long time; and they probably didn't want to focus on larger airports needing larger aircraft because other people already did.

I remember when they had flights to those places leaving Edinburgh at business friendly times in the morning. I imagine Edinburgh feel they can do better things with peak time capacity these days :-(

[Harry Wayfarers]

They had an opportunity to develop a network of flights out of NQY, LON, MAN, Scotland, Ireland etc., after they bought Air Southwest, they could have painted up a Saab or few in ASW livery, but rather than accept such an opportunity they opted to shut ASW down as quickly as they possibly could leaving the door open for the likes of Flybe to move in.

[RAFAT]

......and of course it was their decision, no one else's, to treat their staff so badly that everyone that could leave did so, flights couldn't be crewed, bases were opened and closed, the schedule fell apart and effectively drove their pax away. Feel for them......no chance!

[jamestkirk]

EA will put financial losses and low pax numbers down to oil.

Try horrific customer service, incompetent man management and a philosophy of hatred for their staff.

Remember, 'if you dont like it you can f&ck off'. (quote by CP).

It would probably be a very successful and profitable charter airline if they had some people in HUY without the need of professional psychiatric help and a course in motivation.....and decency.....and management........this list could go on all day.

[kapton]

01475. Manx2/CityWing is not a good example.

[Harry Wayfarers]

But there is little other operator(s) to make a comparison with, there is a corner shop type market out there for a 20 (ish) seater type operator, it just needs somebody to take the bull by the horns and prove the point whilst not placing commercial pressure upon the crews to go bouncing off Irish runways and landing in 50kt winds or whatever :)

[Buster the Bear]

Firnas have a Jetstream 31 painted up at Hurn.

[RAFAT]

Indeed jamestkirk, it's hard to comprehend why that guy is still there!

[01475]

01475. Manx2/CityWing is not a good example.

I used it deliberately. People died on a not-a-Manx2 flight operating at the limits of weather conditions, yet not-CityWing were still able to keep operating flights on routes like Gloucester and Blackpool that nobody else could, for not-them to operate at the limits of weather conditions again.

To me that proves there *really* is potential demand. However I don't think it can be met by someone that doesn't have economies of scale behind them for marketing, and bigger aircraft up their sleeves in case something is surprisingly successful and therefore attractive to larger competitors.

And I also don't think it can be met by people that use crowdfunding platforms...

I reckon the only people that could pull it off would be FlyBe... and that in the absence of any reason why they should want to pull it off it'll never happen :-(

[humbersidemotor]

Redundancies

HUY Reservations staff went last Thursday couple kept on for Customer services. Dam shame, demise of a Commuter Airline. Acknowledging the critics of the 2 founder directors what cannot be taken away is that they took the gamble/opportunity, put their own money in to start Eastern and grow it. This enabled many to take a Job with Eastern develop their skills and progress with other airlines. Food for thought perhaps?

[LlamaFarmer]

They also treated many of their employees with contempt, or worse.

They didn't do it for the good of anyone else or from the kindness of their heart, and many felt undervalued, under-compensated and treated without a basic respect which doesn't even cost anything.

[Albert Hall]

And paying themselves way more than any equivalent leaders in other regional airlines. Sympathy will be in short supply, I don't doubt.

[Planespeaking]

My apologies for speed reading the latest posts, but has Eastern gone to the wall, or is it just a consolidation?

[humbersidemotor]

Albert Hall

Wasn't after sympathy just sometimes one has to reflect. There are obviously some very raw people on here, but the question is have you ever taken a gamble putting all your collateral up? Why shouldn't the gamblers take a benefit. That's what happens when you play poker, you may win but you may just as easily lose!

[Harry Wayfarers]

Only an idiot would put all their collateral in to an airline!

[LlamaFarmer]

humbersidemotor

I'm not saying gamblers shouldn't take a benefit from their success.

But that doesn't excuse them being fundamentally unpleasant to their employees who are making their money (or not as the case may be).

Manners, politeness and respect cost nothing, but I never saw anything like that from RL or BH.

I did see one staff member reduced to tears as a result of a very loud and aggressive dressing down from BH for wearing boots in their uniform in HUY HQ reception in front of about 10 people... just as they were about to walk out the door into the car park which had nearly a foot of snow in it.

I know that attitude and contempt for staff was not an exception but a norm.

[FlatBroke]

Absolutely. Few would/should argue that those that take the risks should benefit the most. You deserve to have reaped the benefits. However, there has got to be a degree of equality and fairness among all stakeholders with that success.
Also, arguably the "winnings" could have been even greater perhaps had different tactics been employed...

[jamestkirk]

Eastern lose £3.7m with Air Kilroe £9m. Bristows losing money. It not looking good

[yeo valley]

With all the talk about the problems eastern are in,nothing has been mentioned about the airbus corporate routes they operate. Would they be stopped as well,if they pulled the airbus contract it would be a good one for BMIR to take on again as they lost the contract to eastern.

[Harry Wayfarers]

FlatBroke

Six years ago I invested in commercial real estate, my decision wasn't comparible to playing poker because I did sound research and made a commercial decision based on that research.

These six years later, regardless that my business has a healthy annual turnover, my real estate is valued at around 7 times my initial outlay with the land itself being worth around 15 times what I paid for it with real estate prices here still rocketing.

Only a fool would invest in an airline with a fleet of glorified Airfix kits.

[LGS6753]

Harry,

That's some glorification!

[NorthSouth]

Only a fool would invest in an airline with a fleet of glorified Airfix kits.Good summing up of the problems. If the travelling public with a need to get from A to B is at the mercy of a bunch of gamblers from god knows where only interested in their self aggrandisement, then they will be disappointed.

[N707ZS]

Is the Bristows Nigerian EMB 145 that has appeared at Humberside going to join the fleet.

[highwideandugly]

Is this the aircraft for the Dublin service et al out of DTV?

[fjencl]

The Dublin service was a rumour remember, until there is some form of press release about any new route or routes.....let's leave it there and move on.

[Garstag]

Jethros are reporting Eastern have reg G-CIYX to their fleet. Embraer EMB 145-LR

[fjencl]

Maybe as somebody had commented previously as they are getting rid of there Jetstream 41's and SAAB 2000's they will be adding further jet or newer atr aircraft's to there fleet or even embraer 170's and 190's. Time will tell.

[canberra97]

You aware that Eastern currently have two 170's in their fleet!

[cabsav]

Eastern are dying a death by a thousand cuts. I think they are circa 900 by now. They’ve lost millions and Bristows must be spitting fire at RL.

[qwertyuiop]

Anybody care to tell me what a captain earns at Eastern?

[Alteagod]

2 n sixpence and a good thrashing

[cabsav]

I think the average year one is about £45k

[buzz_hornet]

I note that they operated on behalf of bmi regional on their ldy-stn service tonight

[BAladdy]

I see that T3 have been using G-CERY instead of G-CDKA to operate the IOM service for nearly a week now.

Was wondering if any knows what the problem is with G-CDKA?.

[qwertyuiop]

I think the average year one is about £45k
Ok, Thanks.

[BAladdy]

T3’s weekday flights from ABZ-NWI are showing as being operated by BMI Regional on behalf of Eastern Airways through until the end of the S18 schedule. Flights are operated by a ER4. From what I can gather the lease began just a day after BM dropped there own service on the route.

Does anyone know why they have just not continued to operate one of there own aircraft on the route?

[mathers_wales_uk]

I see that Eastern are using the Saab 2000 more on the NCL-CWL route. I guessing this is due to crew availability as should be a J41.

[jamestkirk]

They've closed NWI as a base.

Talking about ABZ I see they evacuated on the runways yesterday.

[humbersidemotor]

BMIR &/or Eastern?

If the latter is the writing in the wall for others? Bristows have facilities at ABZ

[Mike Flynn]

They've closed NWI as a base.

Can you expand on that?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Eastern have closed their NWI base.

bmi are now operating the flights on behalf of Eastern, but from ABZ and timings from Bmi’s former schedule.

[jamestkirk]

Eastern are closing NWI as a base and wet leasing BMIR for the NWI-ABZ route.

[Mike Flynn]

Given they are a small scale operator will that result in job losses at Norwich?

[fjencl]

Now that eastern airways have two atr72-600 do they just operate on the Aberdeen to scatsta to Aberdeen services only.

[Mooncrest]

The ATRs have been through Leeds Bradford a few times recently.

[Richard Taylor]

Many years ago, Eastern operated 4 returns NWI-ABZ each weekday. BMI Regional operated 4 as well from ABZ, with the addition of MAN-NWI-ABZ in the evening. Silly use of ERJ aircraft while the situation lasted, with frequent comments to that effect from pilots of both companies.

Those days are long gone now, and they won't be back.

[LBIA]

The ABZ based ATR72 seems to operate the ABZ-LBA-SOU-LBA-ABZ rotation on a Sunday.

[Wolfgang5150]

Anyone fancy having a punt on when RL and BH will just give up with their airfix airline.........?

[Flightrider]

BH has gone. Rumours of a major row in the office in January and the Companies House records list him as having resigned on 31 January.

Pity anyone left. BH was one of the very few who was a calming influence on RL's more outlandish tendencies.

The rumours of the J41 fleet's days being numbered are interesting. Anyone aware of a definitive plan to retire them? Hope Duxford have room for one.

[NOP]

BH has gone. Rumours of a major row in the office in January and the Companies House records list him as having resigned on 31 January.

Pity anyone left. BH was one of the very few who was a calming influence on RL's more outlandish tendencies.

The rumours of the J41 fleet's days being numbered are interesting. Anyone aware of a definitive plan to retire them? Hope Duxford have room for one.


Seems they are being parked depending what they need done when they go in for heavy maintenance, if it's too much they are being parted out for the remainder of the fleet.

There is a ER4 that has come over from Nigeria, in Bristow paint scheme... are we going to start seeing more paintwork like this across the fleet?

[NOP]

Given they are a small scale operator will that result in job losses at Norwich?

I'd imagine the crews would be moved to another base, but depending how long said crew decide to stick it out at a base miles from home is anyone's guess!

[NOP]

Now that eastern airways have two atr72-600 do they just operate on the Aberdeen to scatsta to Aberdeen services only.

Monday to Friday will be pretty much SCS flying, and once that's done for the day they may be used to cover tech/delays on the schedule. With no SCS flying at weekends, perhaps they cover flying on Sunday's for maintenance on the forever tech Saab's!?

The ATRs have been through Leeds Bradford a few times recently.

"ATR", singular! ;) The second one, G-IACZ, only arrived in Aberdeen yesterday morning, a day late due to Wx.

[SWBKCB]

There is a ER4 that has come over from Nigeria, in Bristow paint scheme... are we going to start seeing more paintwork like this across the fleet?

Presumably depends on what happens with the flyBe deal?

[Wolfgang5150]

Not sure about Duxford, but BH might like one parked outside his Florida "pied à terre".... but then again...

[jamestkirk]

I am pretty sure most people want RL, BH and numerous to board Thunderbird 2 and be launched into deep space. One small step from the potacabin, one giant leap for aviation moral.

[fjencl]

I am pretty sure most people want RL, BH and numerous to board Thunderbird 2 and be launched into deep space. One small step from the potacabin, one giant leap for aviation moral.

Your point about BH was already addressed a few
messages above this one !!!!

[RAFAT]

Your point about BH was already addressed a few messages above this one !!!!

No harm in repeating it though! :ok:

[davidjpowell]

I noticed that yesterdays flight from Aberdeen to Leeds skipped Leeds and 'diverted' direct to Southampton. Seemed somewhat harsh on Leeds passengers.

I did see a later flight that diverted to Humberside, so maybe they all went to that. Even that diversion seems odd given that Doncaster is closer.

[N707ZS]

Fog and don't think Eastern do Doncaster.

[LBIA]

Surely it makes sense for Eastern Airways to divert into HUY were they have based operations and HQ.

The ABZ pax heading to LBA were kept on-board the aircraft at SOU and then dropped off at HUY along with the SOU-LBA pax. Meanwhile the pax travelling from LBA to ABZ were given transport over to HUY to pick up the said northbound service.

[Wolfgang5150]

It all seems very negative for EA, are they about to throw the towel in, or is there hope for RL and his merry men.....?

[Richard Taylor]

On scheduled services maybe? (Throw in towel I mean)

[Harry Wayfarers]

Surely it makes sense for Eastern Airways to divert into HUY were they have based operations and HQ.

By that logic KLM would have diverted to Amsterdam!

[tophat27dt]

By that logic KLM would have diverted to Amsterdam!
No, they prefer Southampton!

[sparkie320]

If Bristow have released the single EMB145 back to Eastern, so i have seen on line, thought it was Eastern in the first place
Would it not make sense to place this aircraft on the route, maybe Flybe livery or Eastern
As at the moment we have BMI Aircraft, Flybe/Eastern Flight Number , which cant be a good marketing for Eastern also confusing to the customer i would guess
it did confuse the tower on it's first day of service
and drop the price to make it affordable
everyone be happy

[LBIA]

By that logic KLM would have diverted to Amsterdam!

The late KLM did actually divert back to AMS last Wednesday due to LBA snow closure. ;) But like Eastern they normally tend to divert into HUY or MME not DSA.

[jamestkirk]

I also remember lovely stories of crew being shouted out the window to 'get of the f&cking grass'. Magical.

Or my favourite was the cabin crew in a training room on a course drinking bottles of water. Interrupted by an angry outburst of 'this ain't a f&cking tuck shop' and took the said unfinished water bottles away. I mean, drinking water!!, what a liberty.

Honestly, with examples like that I have no idea how they have lost half their flight crew and losing millions.

'If you take care of your employees, they'll take care of your business'. A quote by Richard Branson, but what the f@uck does he know about aviation or business.

[HH6702]

Richard Branson may say that but he doesn't do it

[Wolfgang5150]

I'd just like to say thanks to BH for treating all the staff made redundant over the past 12 months or so to a jolly good lunch, cheers! Oh... dreaming again, oops

[scodaman]

Eastern G-CIEC Saab 2000 booked for doing the LDY-STN-LDY rotation this week on behalf of Flybmi

Was cancelled last night for no obvious reason.

[cabsav]

Ha.
Surely its 'welcome on board this EastFlyBMIR flight about to be cancelled to (insert location)'.

[humbersidemotor]

I'd just like to say thanks to BH for treating all the staff made redundant over the past 12 months or so to a jolly good lunch, cheers! Oh... dreaming again, oops

Why should BH or RL for that matter, did they not sell their Majority holding to Bristows? Bristows call the shots.

Whilst procrastinating and calling the 2 original owners, they saw an opportunity, gave many people a step on the ladder to go onto better things. If you are all so pragmatic why don't you put your money where your mouth is? You do a disservice to those employees at Eastern ala Bristow by your demoralising rants. Some actually enjoy their jobs, we have a lady ex reservations who loved it. If/when Eastern disappears you'll no doubt be a happy bunch

[Wolfgang5150]

You obviously havn't had to work with Eastern management Mr Motor, the way they handled the mass redundancies last year was appalling, no thank you, well done etc... just a generic letter blaming Brexit for the state of the airline... an awful company.

[jamestkirk]

I too on the whole enjoyed my time there. In so much as great crew and some very fun flying.

It does not however take away from the fact that on numerous occasions, crews were treated in an appalling way.

Led by some management who were nothing more than an and ex old boys flying club with little or no management ability.

Maximising poor terms and conditions when there were no jobs out there, citing no money then advertising a full page spread in the paper they have made £49m. That was just before the sale to Bristows. That was particularly insulting behaviour.

There are still some great people there and in HUY let’s be honest and say that those two could not give a flying f&ck about the welfare of their staff.

If they did, why are so many leaving. A fact that cannot be argued.

[Wolfgang5150]

Are there many people left at HUY, I understand some reservation staff were given the boot not long ago.....?

[humbersidemotor]

Re your last couple of para's you ask why so many are leaving, well is it not true that 1 of the people you constantly chastise resigned in January 2018? The Majority shareholder is more than likely calling the tune, loading the gun for a.n.other to 'fire'it.

To put the record straight on another comment I have worked for Mr H many times so all those that say i don't know, believe me I do.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Please take it to 'Terms and Endearment' and leave the rest of us to enjoy 'Airlines, Airports and Routes'

[cabsav]

get a grip of yourself. JamesT and others are absolutely correct. your post is nonsense implying no one really left pre jan 2018. but if it makes you feel better, BH is a lovely man and everyone always had a warm and fuzzy sense of appreciation working there. your post would be insulting if it wasn't so ridiculous.

[VentureGo]

G-CFLU Saab 2000 operating MME-ABZ (BE7632) Diverted to NCL, then continued to ABZ as Scheduled Newcastle to Aberdeen service BE7652 - Maybe Crew or Tech issues? - Seems passenger numbers were OK consolidating to one a/c.

[N707ZS]

No one wants to go to Aberdeen on a Friday morning they just want to come home, simple as that.

[Richard Taylor]

No one wants to go to Aberdeen on a Friday morning they just want to come home, simple as that.

Nor ANY morning for that matter.

[RAFAT]

Hear hear Richard!

[LesPretend]

Bristow have now taken 100% control of Eastern.

I’ve no idea of the in’s and outs and I’ve no axe to grind but the information is reliable.

I’m told they wanted to protect their ATR72 investment.

[Richard Taylor]

Which begs the question what happens to the scheduled airline bit? I can't see Bristow in effect wanting to run an airline. They've enough trouble running a helicopter company in the current difficult times in the O&G industry!!

[LesPretend]

I mentioned several months back that the IAC operation (Scatsta) would be protected at all costs and that’s what’s happening.

I guess it will start unraveling over the next few weeks, only the folks in Houston and perhaps a select few in ABZ will really know what’s going on.

[N707ZS]

A curiosity. The London City Isle of Man Saab positioned to DTVA on the 20th parked up all night then left on the DTVA Aberdeen service. Anyone know why it did that.

[Haven't a clue]

The 1300 IOM>LCY rotation yesterday was cancelled; a substitute Saab positioned Darlington>LCY to operate the 15.00 return and the final rotation of the day. I assume the IOM based aircraft went tech (again) and what you saw was the substitute returning home on the night of the 19th, not the 20th?

[N707ZS]

It flew this mornings DTVA Aberdeen 62L after the night stop.

[cabsav]

Has RL and the DFO resigned.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I understand that MH from Commercial is on his bike very soon.

Doesnt sound like like there’s going to be much left after Bristow pick through all the rubbish. Shame, a once great company to work for, utterly ruined by incompetent, inept and arrogant management.

[Alteagod]

Are they basing at saab at BHD for BE summer schedule?

[RAFAT]

I understand that MH from Commercial is on his bike very soon.

Doesnt sound like like there’s going to be much left after Bristow pick through all the rubbish. Shame, a once great company to work for, utterly ruined by incompetent, inept and arrogant management.

If MH goes that will only be a positive step for everyone, with him there any chances of a recovery would be negated.

Atlantic Explorer - If I may dissect your post then we arrive at a rather major contributory factor in Eastern's slide: MH, incompetent, inept and arrogant!

[Wolfgang5150]

I`ve just seen a vacancy for a Tech Records administrator at EA Humberside. Below was this statement...."This is a fantastic opportunity to work for one of the UK’s fastest growing, most successful airlines." Sounds like all is good at EA then.....?

[RAFAT]

I'd like to see them back that up with a comparison of employee numbers over the last 3 years, I think that would reveal the truth about being the "fastest growing."

[Wolfgang5150]

My thoughts exactly, there can't be many left.

[EGPO]

I still predict Eastern will be bought out Probably by Flybe or Stobart .
Unless one of the LOCOS decides they want to branch out to prop routes lol .

[Harry Wayfarers]

I still predict Eastern will be bought out Probably by Flybe or Stobart .
Unless one of the LOCOS decides they want to branch out to prop routes lol .

What is worth buying, a fleet of geriatric and long since out of production turboprops of little value and some routes that are so profitable that Eastern finds itself in the mess it does?

[SWBKCB]

The two new Atr's and the Bristows contract - but as they're owned by Bristows...

[EGPO]

I was under the Impression they Also own a majority stake in HUY along with North Lincs CC.

[SWBKCB]

The airport is a subsidiary of Eastern which is a subsidiary of Bristows.

[Harry Wayfarers]

The airport is a subsidiary of Eastern which is a subsidiary of Bristows.

Eastern Airways folded in the 1980's, don't you mean Air Kilroe?

[SWBKCB]

I'm going by what Companies House says... :ok:

[Harry Wayfarers]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Airways

Air Kilroe Limited, trading as Eastern Airways, is a British airline whose head office is at Humberside Airport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberside_Airport)near the village of Kirmington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirmington), North Lincolnshire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Lincolnshire),

[Flightrider]

I suggest you look at Companies House and not Wikipedia. The AOC is indeed Air Kilroe trading as Eastern Airways but there are a number of other trading entities as Eastern Airways (UK, Europe, International) and it is under one of those that the airport ownership sits today, regardless of whatever happened in the 1980s which really isn't relevant.