Iran

[Lonewolf_50]

Touche, artee. I didn't realize it either. :}

[ORAC]

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/14/united-arab-emirates-retaliatory-airstrikes-iran-00141460

UAE restricts US ability to launch retaliatory airstrikes against Iran proxies

Other Arab countries are restricting operations as well, according to people familiar with the matter.

Some Arab countries, including the United Arab Emirates, are increasingly restricting the U.S. from using military facilities on their soil to launch retaliatory airstrikes on Iranian proxies, according to four people familiar with the issue.….

The news that some countries are restricting access is based on information from a U.S. official, a congressional aide and two Western officials, all of whom were granted anonymity to discuss a sensitive security issue.

Amid a rising civilian death toll in Gaza, several Arab countries, particularly those “attempting a detente with Iran,” are “increasingly restricting” the U.S. and partners from conducting self-defense operations from their soil, according to the U.S. official. This includes limits on retaliatory strikes against attacks in Iraq, Syria, and the Red Sea, the official said.….

Certain Arab countries are restricting access to basing and overflight for the assets participating in these retaliatory strikes, the official said. It’s not clear how many countries are taking this action.

The reason the UAE in particular is doing this, per one of the Western officials, is “they don’t want to appear like they’re against Iran and they don’t want to appear too close to the West and Israel for public opinion reasons.”

The UAE has in recent years also raised concerns about increasing attacks from the Houthis in Yemen. The rebel group has previously launched missiles (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/uaes-defense-ministry-destroyed-2-houthi-ballistic-missiles-wam-2022-01-24/) into the UAE.

The UAE is home to Al Dhafra Air Base, which hosts dozens of U.S. aircraft involved in operations across the region, including fighter aircraft and reconnaissance drones such as MQ-9 Reapers.

In October, U.S. F-16 fighter jets carried out (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-carries-out-strikes-against-iranian-targets-syria-pentagon-2023-10-27/#:~:text=The%20strikes%20took%20place%20at,the%20condition%2 0of%20anonymity%2C%20said.) retaliatory strikes against two facilities in eastern Syria used by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and its proxies. Although the Pentagon at the time did not disclose where the aircraft came from, Al Dhafra is one of the closest facilities in the region that typically hosts F-16s.

One Defense Department official disputed the premise that there is tension between the U.S. and the Emirates over U.S. military basing, pointing out that A-10 attack aircraft and armed MQ-9 drones have recently operated out of Al Dhafra in support of operations to protect shipping in the Arabian Gulf.

But soon after the October strike, the Pentagon stopped publicly disclosing many of the aircraft types used in subsequent retaliatory operations against Iranian proxies.

Meanwhile, strikes on the Houthis since January have been conducted by U.S. Navy F/A-18 fighter jets from the nearby aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, which is in international waters.

And after an Iran-backed proxy attack killed three American soldiers at a small U.S. outpost in Jordan in January, the U.S. flew long-range B-1 bombers (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/02/us-strikes-militant-positions-in-iraq-and-syria-in-response-to-deadly-drone-attack-in-jordan-00139410) from Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota, the Pentagon said…..

[artee]

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/14/united-arab-emirates-retaliatory-airstrikes-iran-00141460

UAE restricts US ability to launch retaliatory airstrikes against Iran proxies

Other Arab countries are restricting operations as well, according to people familiar with the matter.

Some Arab countries, including the United Arab Emirates, are increasingly restricting the U.S. from using military facilities on their soil to launch retaliatory airstrikes on Iranian proxies, according to four people familiar with the issue.….

The news that some countries are restricting access is based on information from a U.S. official, a congressional aide and two Western officials, all of whom were granted anonymity to discuss a sensitive security issue.

Amid a rising civilian death toll in Gaza, several Arab countries, particularly those “attempting a detente with Iran,” are “increasingly restricting” the U.S. and partners from conducting self-defense operations from their soil, according to the U.S. official. This includes limits on retaliatory strikes against attacks in Iraq, Syria, and the Red Sea, the official said.….

Certain Arab countries are restricting access to basing and overflight for the assets participating in these retaliatory strikes, the official said. It’s not clear how many countries are taking this action.

The reason the UAE in particular is doing this, per one of the Western officials, is “they don’t want to appear like they’re against Iran and they don’t want to appear too close to the West and Israel for public opinion reasons.”

The UAE has in recent years also raised concerns about increasing attacks from the Houthis in Yemen. The rebel group has previously launched missiles (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/uaes-defense-ministry-destroyed-2-houthi-ballistic-missiles-wam-2022-01-24/) into the UAE.

The UAE is home to Al Dhafra Air Base, which hosts dozens of U.S. aircraft involved in operations across the region, including fighter aircraft and reconnaissance drones such as MQ-9 Reapers.

In October, U.S. F-16 fighter jets carried out (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-carries-out-strikes-against-iranian-targets-syria-pentagon-2023-10-27/#:~:text=The%20strikes%20took%20place%20at,the%20condition%2 0of%20anonymity%2C%20said.) retaliatory strikes against two facilities in eastern Syria used by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and its proxies. Although the Pentagon at the time did not disclose where the aircraft came from, Al Dhafra is one of the closest facilities in the region that typically hosts F-16s.

One Defense Department official disputed the premise that there is tension between the U.S. and the Emirates over U.S. military basing, pointing out that A-10 attack aircraft and armed MQ-9 drones have recently operated out of Al Dhafra in support of operations to protect shipping in the Arabian Gulf.

But soon after the October strike, the Pentagon stopped publicly disclosing many of the aircraft types used in subsequent retaliatory operations against Iranian proxies.

Meanwhile, strikes on the Houthis since January have been conducted by U.S. Navy F/A-18 fighter jets from the nearby aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, which is in international waters.

And after an Iran-backed proxy attack killed three American soldiers at a small U.S. outpost in Jordan in January, the U.S. flew long-range B-1 bombers (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/02/us-strikes-militant-positions-in-iraq-and-syria-in-response-to-deadly-drone-attack-in-jordan-00139410) from Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota, the Pentagon said…..
That certainly supports the case for aircraft carriers. Even "friendly" nations can have priorities that aren't aligned with "ours".

[bugged on the right]

How about ballistic missiles? Minimum overflight.

[ORAC]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/02/15/irans-revolutionary-guard-on-the-ground-in-yemen-to-assist-houthis-us-official-says/

Iran’s Revolutionary Guard On The Ground In Yemen To Assist Houthis, U.S. Official Says

In a bombshell revelation, a U.S. Navy official revealed on CBS News’ “60 Minutes” that Iranian Revolutionary Guard troops are working on the ground with Houthi rebels in Yemen, providing assistance to the group that has escalated attacks on U.S. military targets in the region and shipping vessels in the Red Sea, as U.S. forces step up counter-measures amid fears of an escalating Middle Eastern conflict.

U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Brad Cooper confirmed in an interview with “60 Minutes” correspondent Norah O’Donnell that members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps are on the ground in Yemen “serving side-by-side” with the rebel group and providing advice and target information….

[Lonewolf_50]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/02/15/irans-revolutionary-guard-on-the-ground-in-yemen-to-assist-houthis-us-official-says/

Iran’s Revolutionary Guard On The Ground In Yemen To Assist Houthis, U.S. Official Says

In a bombshell revelation, a U.S. Navy official revealed on CBS News’ “60 Minutes” that Iranian Revolutionary Guard troops are working on the ground with Houthi rebels in Yemen, providing assistance to the group that has escalated attacks on U.S. military targets in the region and shipping vessels in the Red Sea, as U.S. forces step up counter-measures amid fears of an escalating Middle Eastern conflict.

U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Brad Cooper confirmed in an interview with “60 Minutes” correspondent Norah O’Donnell that members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps are on the ground in Yemen “serving side-by-side” with the rebel group and providing advice and target information…. 1. Taking a page out of our book. (See Afghanistan in the 80's).
2. There were about 200 Iranian agents in Bosnia during the 90's. This overt support to the Houthis should not surprise anyone.
Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran), a predominantly Shia country, was one of the first Muslim countries to provide support for the Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks), who are mainly Sunni Muslim) in the war. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Corps) (IRGC) sent more than five thousand tonnes of arms to the Bosnian Muslims.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEO'Hern201282-3) IRGC also supplied trainers and advisers for the Bosnian military and intelligence service.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEO'Hern201282-3) Several dozen Iranian intelligence experts joined the Bosnian Muslim intelligence agency.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEShay201794-4) The Iranian Ministry of Intelligence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Intelligence_(Iran))-supported mujahideen units trained selected Bosnian army units.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBennett201254-5) The Hezbollah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah) (Lebanese Shia), supported by Iran, also sent fighters to the war.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-Fisk-6) In 1992, Iran with the help of Turkey smuggled arms to the Bosnian Muslims.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBurgShoup1999307-7) Reports of "hundreds of tons of weapons" shipped from Iran over a period of months appeared in the media in early 1995.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBurgShoup1999308-8) Iranian arms were shipped through Croatia.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-9)
That certainly supports the case for aircraft carriers. Even "friendly" nations can have priorities that aren't aligned with "ours". They are the host nation. Their sensibilities need to be taken into account in order to remain in their country. I remember a few operations where our aircraft were based out of Diego Garcia where we had to consult, in detail, with the Brits before getting a green light. That's been a while ago. Man, I am getting old. And yes, it's another point on the value of aircraft carriers (particularly of the CATOBAR kind), organic tanking assets, and organic EW assets.
(Tom Sharpe has a recent article in the Telegraph covering that general theme).

[Lonewolf_50]

The US Coast Guard seized a big cache of weapons bound for Houthi rebels, including ballistic missile components and explosives Story by [email protected] (Kwan Wei Kevin Tan)
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1imepB.img?w=768&h=444&m=6
US Central Command© US Central Command

The US Coast Guard said it seized over 200 packages of weapons meant for Houthi rebels in Yemen.
Ballistic missile components originating from Iran were found on a vessel in the Arabian Sea.
Houthi rebels have been attacking ships in Red Sea as a response to the Israel-Hamas war.

Over 200 packages of illegal weapons and military components bound for Yemen have been seized by the US Coast Guard, the US Central Command said in a statement (https://twitter.com/CENTCOM/status/1758084937331454351) on Thursday. The shipment was seized from a vessel in the Arabian Sea on January 28, per the statement. The US Central Command said the weapons had originated in Iran and were en-route to be delivered to Houthi rebels in Yemen. A vast assortment of weapons were found on the vessel, ranging from medium-range ballistic missile components, explosives, and anti-tank guided missile launcher assemblies.

I have a great idea: send that stuff to Ukraine. I am sure they could use it. :cool:

[havoc]

So international treaties don't allow military bases, but what the hell, they might as well try something.

Iran Says It Owns Antarctica, Wants To Establish Military Presence (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-says-it-owns-antarctica-wants-to-establish-military-presence/ss-BB1iokoc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=c38641d3ce2641a99e8e3ccbc216ef27&ei=84)

[Lonewolf_50]

I'll get the popcorn.

[artee]

I have a great idea: send that stuff to Ukraine. I am sure they could use it. :cool:
US Coast Guard! I had no idea they operated so far from home.

[Asturias56]

So international treaties don't allow military bases, but what the hell, they might as well try something.

Iran Says It Owns Antarctica, Wants To Establish Military Presence (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-says-it-owns-antarctica-wants-to-establish-military-presence/ss-BB1iokoc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=c38641d3ce2641a99e8e3ccbc216ef27&ei=84)


madness...............................

[West Coast]

So international treaties don't allow military bases, but what the hell, they might as well try something.

Iran Says It Owns Antarctica, Wants To Establish Military Presence (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-says-it-owns-antarctica-wants-to-establish-military-presence/ss-BB1iokoc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=c38641d3ce2641a99e8e3ccbc216ef27&ei=84)

Sounds like something the Chinese would try. Wait…they've started down that path already.

[Asturias56]

The Chinese have established bases under the Antarctic Treaty - China has 4 bases - the same as the UK. The Chinese have no claims on Antarctica - the UK does..................

[West Coast]

The Chinese have established bases under the Antarctic Treaty - China has 4 bases - the same as the UK. The Chinese have no claims on Antarctica - the UK does..................

Give it time.

[ORAC]

Yemen’s Houthi rebels shot down a U.S. drone and damaged a Belize-flagged, British cargo ship in their latest assault against commercial vessels, their spokesperson claimed Monday.

The Iranian-backed group, which has been targeting commercial shipping since the outbreak of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, said they hit the cargo ship Rubymar in the Gulf of Aden.

“The ship suffered catastrophic damage and came to a complete halt,” a Houthi spokesperson said. “As a result of the extensive damage the ship suffered, it is now at risk of potential sinking in the Gulf of Aden.”

The U.K. Maritime Trade Operations agency said an explosion “in close proximity of the vessel” damaged it. The crew abandoned ship and is safe, the agency added.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1089x1285/image_a69ee49c09b552b98b91d9ade0cfc7ac742c8d73.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1088x726/image_197cf0f6c90d440fee6e2fcbb08114381f220135.png

[havoc]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2024/02/19/electronic-aircraft-hijacking-thwarted/7841708348577/

[Asturias56]

Give it time.

even the USA has never claimed acreage in Antarctica -

[jolihokistix]

Video of Rubymar going down?
Houthi-hyökkäys Punaisellamerellä upottaa brittiläisen aluksen ja osuu Yhdysvaltojen droneen - 動画 Dailymotion (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8t05gg)

[ORAC]

https://news.usni.org/2024/02/19/houthi-lethal-underwater-drones-adds-new-threat-to-red-sea

Houthi Lethal Underwater Drones Adds New Threat to Red Sea

[Herod]

Video of Rubymar going down?
Houthi-hyökkäys Punaisellamerellä upottaa brittiläisen aluksen ja osuu Yhdysvaltojen droneen - 動画 Dailymotion (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8t05gg)

Quite clever ship, if it can go down stern-first, then come up again, to go down bow-first

[ORAC]

Earlier footage is from the 2013 sinking of the MV Atlantic Confidence.‬ Second doesn’t even look like the Rubymar.

‪https://memac-rsa.org/en/gallery/m_v_atlantic_confidence_s_oman_30th_march_2013‬

[jolihokistix]

Thank you both for the updates. The funnel livery was completely different too.

[Lonewolf_50]

I am sure that the insurers would be interested to know whether it sank or not.

[ORAC]

Rubymar still afloat but down at the stern with a flooded engine room.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68363692

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x911/image_d98b496134ae469e99a499aadce299236adfbcc8.png

[ORAC]

https://news.sky.com/story/us-and-britain-strike-more-than-a-dozen-houthi-targets-in-yemen-13080557

US and Britain strike more than a dozen Houthi targets in Yemen

The US and Britain have struck more than a dozen Houthi targets in Yemen after a surge in attacks by the Iran-backed militia group on ships in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.

It is the fourth joint action taken by the UK and the US in an attempt to deter attacks by the group on vessels, including a missile strike this week that set fire to a cargo ship.

According to US officials, American and British fighter jets hit about 18 sites across multiple locations, targeting missiles, launchers, rockets, drones and unmanned surface and underwater vehicles.

The US fighter jets launched from the USS Dwight D Eisenhower aircraft carrier, which is in the Red Sea….

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said the UK strikes were carried out by four Royal Air Force Typhoon FGR4s supported by two Voyager tankers.

The MoD saidt: "Intelligence analysis had successfully identified several very long-range drones, used by the Houthis for both reconnaissance and attack missions, at a former surface-to-air missile battery site several miles north-east of Sanaa.

"Our aircraft used Paveway IV precision guided bombs against the drones and their launchers."

The MoD said previous RAF strikes, on 11 January and 3 February, had destroyed a "number of buildings used to support" the Houthis' "done and cruise missile operations"….

[ORAC]

CENTCOM:

Feb. 24 Red Sea Update

On Feb. 24 at 5 p.m. (Sanaa time), USS Mason (DDG 87) shot down one Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) launched into the Gulf of Aden from Iranian-backed Houthi controlled areas of Yemen.

The missile was likely targeting MV Torm Thor, a U.S.-Flagged, owned, and operated chemical/oil tanker.

Neither USS Mason nor MV Torm Thor were damaged and there were no injuries.

[wondering]

US Coast Guard! I had no idea they operated so far from home.

The US Coast Guard protects all coasts. :E

Btw what's the Saudi Kingdom doing about it. Thought they pounded Yemen for years.

[jolihokistix]

Saudi pounded them for years but then formed a truce with the Houthis getting them to agree not to send drones over their cities and oil installations any more.

What I would like to ask the Houthis is, “Do you really feel comfortable polluting your own seas with poisonous chemicals around Yemen, if it’s for Hamas (anti Israel)?”

[ORAC]

Speaking of pollution - Rubymar has an 18 mile oil slick and growing as it gradually sinks.

The main cargo is nitrogen fertiliser which disturb the balance of microorganism in the sea causing increased large algae bloom, in which fish suffocate, plus loss of their nutrient base and major damage to the fishing industry on which the local fishing industry relies.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/881x612/image_6f6d38f04156698d71e7534e950b08c0260aaba7.png

[Lonewolf_50]

And where is Greanpeace, come to save the day with their rhetoric? :p

I wonder if the ship has sufficient ability to pump water out of the engine room at some point.
Don't understand that class of vessel well enough to make an educated guess.

[Asturias56]

I think they steer clear of naval zones after the made the mistake of boarding that Russian oil platform a few years back.................... :p

[West Coast]

I think they steer clear of naval zones after the made the mistake of boarding that Russian oil platform a few years back.................... :p

So….a clear message resonates better than politician speak?

[Asturias56]

I was surprised they let them go - a trial for Piracy and 10 years hard in the Kola would have sent a clearer message

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_caseOn 19 September 2013, the day after the Prirazlomnaya protest, the Russian authorities forcibly took control of the Arctic Sunrise, which was boarded from a helicopter by fifteen Federal Security Service (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service) officers in balaclavas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing)), armed with guns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun) and knives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-Independent-13) At the time of the boarding, the Arctic Sunrise was in Russia's Exclusive Economic Zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Economic_Zone) but not within the safety zone around the oil rig, and permission was not sought to board it from the Arctic Sunrise's flag state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_state), the Netherlands.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-ITLOS-12) The captain was separated from the crew and brutally beaten, while other crew members and activists were held in the mess room.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-Telegraph-14) It has been alleged that crew members and activists were brutally beaten, punched, and kicked during the forced boarding.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-Independent-13)

The Arctic Sunrise was towed to the port of Murmansk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murmansk). All of the 30 people on board were taken to a detention facility where they were brutally beaten and interrogated. In early October, the Leninsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninsky_Administrative_Okrug,_Murmansk) District Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_of_Russia#Cassation_courts) in Murmansk issued a warrant to arrest all 30 people.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-en.itar-tass.com-15) 22 were put in custody for two months pending an investigation and the other eight were detained for three days pending a new hearing. They were under investigation for piracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy), which in Russia carries a maximum jail sentence of 15 years.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-Rianovosti-6)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-ABC_News-16)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-BBC_News-17) On 23 October the charge of piracy was dropped and replaced by a charge for aggravated hooliganism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooliganism) with a maximum sentence of seven years.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-19) After they were transferred to Saint Petersburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg) on 12 November,[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-en.itar-tass.com-15) the Kalininsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalininsky_District,_Saint_Petersburg) and Primorsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_District,_Saint_Petersburg) district courts released most of the people on bail,[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] and the Murmansk Regional Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_of_Russia#Regional_courts) rejected an appeal against the arrests on 21 November.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Arctic_Sunrise_ship_case#cite_note-20)


"According to Phil Radford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Radford), executive director of Greenpeace in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) at the time, the reaction of the Russian coast guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Guard_(Russia)) and courts had been the "stiffest response that Greenpeace has encountered from a government since the bombing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior) of the [i]Rainbow Warrior (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Warrior_(1955)) in 1985.""

[ORAC]

BREAKING:

The German frigate “Hessen” just shot down 2 Houthi anti-ship missiles or drones in the Red Sea.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/mercoglianos/status/1762205680998719557?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


At least one subsea fiber cable damaged in the Red Sea, some reports blame Houthi rebels - DCD

Israeli press say AAE-1, Seacom/TGN, and Europe India Gateway (EIG) damaged by rebels; Seacom confirms issues but not cause

​​​​​​​https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/at-least-one-subsea-fiber-cable-damaged-in-the-red-sea-some-reports-blame-houthi-rebels/

[Lonewolf_50]

ORAC, I posted an article by Tom Sharpe on that in the unpleasantries thread in JB...he suspects that Russia may have a hand in that.

[Yellow Sun]

ORAC, I posted an article by Tom Sharpe on that in the unpleasantries thread in JB...he suspects that Russia may have a hand in that.

There’s an interesting article to be found in the Wavell Room (https://wavellroom.com/2024/02/15/alternative-opinion-on-critical-national-infrastructure-and-seabed-warfare/). It promotes an unusual, even controversial, response. But then I suppose we should bear in mind that this isn’t the 1970s and we’re not chasing down the cause of SOSUS cable breaks.

YS

[ORAC]

👀👀👀👀
https://x.com/alexluck9/status/1762824578697736631?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Quite a scoop here by Thomas Wiegold at @AugenGeradeaus:

German frigate Hessen intercepted Houthi drones with RAM & 76 mm main gun.

Before that incident however Hessen tried to intercept, by mistake, a US MQ-9 UAV using two SM-2, both of which failed for "technical reasons".

As per report the MQ-9 had its IFF turned off & operational command (presumably EUNAVFOR Aspides) was unaware of its presence. According to a spokesperson "the incident has been analysed and the deficit was corrected".

​​​​​​​Unclear whether referring to IFF issue or SM-2 issue or both….

​​​​​​​https://x.com/thomas_wiegold/status/1762821694270398468?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


https://augengeradeaus.net/2024/02/rotes-meer-nach-zwei-fehlschuessen-zerstoert-fregatte-hessen-huthi-drohnen/

[Lonewolf_50]

What we have here is failure to communicate. (As regards the MQ-9 engagement). C2 failure.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/mercoglianos/status/1762813639214395594?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Bulker #Rubymar is drifting northward in deep water and it is possible she is dragging her starboard anchor across the cables on the floor of the #RedSea.

If not enough chain is not paid out and with the additional weight from flooding, the ship is not holding.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1214x683/image_a5cad60e5995702d3b551e95680753c8b5112c3d.png
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[ORAC]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1763919547709423679?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


​​​​​​​The British-owned bulk carrier Rubymar has now sunk after it was hit by Houthi anti-ship missile 2 weeks ago.

It’s the first ship to be sunk by the Houthis.

It was carrying more than 41 000 tons of fertilizer. Major ecologic disaster.

[ORAC]

Saturday:

The Italian Navy D554 “Caio Duilio” shot down a Houthi drone earlier today in the Red Sea.

According to the Italian ministry of defence, the drone was about 6 kilometers from the ship and was flying towards it.

[jolihokistix]

As long as the Houthis have the equipment for cleaning up their own spills. (Or perhaps Iran can help them.)

[Asturias56]

​​​​​​​The British-owned bulk carrier Rubymar has now sunk after it was hit by Houthi anti-ship missile 2 weeks ago.

It’s the first ship to be sunk by the Houthis.

It was carrying more than 41 000 tons of fertilizer. Major ecologic disaster.


Actually it'll be quite a local effect - most of it will dissove and be diluted quickly - oil splill wouldd be worse

[Lonewolf_50]

From The Spectator: The record low turnout for parliamentary elections in Iran, which took place on Friday, is another blow to the regime’s attempts to pretend that all is well in the country. Early reports suggest a turnout of just under 41 per cent nationwide. Iranians in their millions have rejected the regime by choosing to stay at home rather than vote.

The elections were never really about the final results (victory is pretty much guaranteed for the motley crew of religious hardliners and social conservatives endorsed by the ruling clerics), but about how many people would actually bother to vote. Turnout matters to the mullahs because the election process exists to give the regime the veneer of democratic legitimacy. That’s why in recent weeks the authorities have been doing everything they can to boost voting numbers. Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has repeatedly urged people to vote, describing it as a national duty. ‘If the election is weak, all face harm’, he said. His pleas were ignored. The dire voting numbers tell their own story of widespread public anger and declining trust in the country’s rulers.

More than 15,000 candidates were vying for a seat in the 290-member parliament, formally known as the Islamic Consultative Assembly. Anyone who opposes the official line is weeded out. Iran’s Guardian Council – responsible for overseeing elections and legislation – disqualified in advance thousands of pro-reform candidates from running for seats. The Iranian parliament has nominal oversight of the executive branch and votes through laws and treaties but real power resides in Ayatollah Khamenei. The parliament, which has no say over critical issues such as nuclear or foreign policy, is there to rubber-stamp the wishes of the supreme leader. The reason I bother to bring this up is that the Argentine government in 1982 tried to regain popularity via their invasion of the Falklands. Iran's not an identical case, sure, but will they consider lashing out (further) as the signs of discontent register? Where? Or, is that not their style?

[DogTailRed2]

From The Spectator: The reason I bother to bring this up is that the Argentine government in 1982 tried to regain popularity via their invasion of the Falklands. Iran's not an identical case, sure, but will they consider lashing out (further) as the signs of discontent register? Where? Or, is that not their style?

Presumably they can't vote against the regime?

[ORAC]

The mood of the nation, it is reported, is to ditch the clerics and bring back the Shah…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/iran-elections-why-young-iranians-would-welcome-return-of-shahs-son-h23nf785s

Iran elections: Why young Iranians would welcome return of Shah’s son

….In place of this regime, what do Iranians want? For Western audiences trained to believe in the oriental complexity of Middle Eastern political sentiment, the answer is strangely ordinary. They want democracy, secularism, territorial integrity, civil and political freedom, and restoration of their national identity and culture. According to the majority, only one man can deliver these things: Iran’s crown prince, Reza Pahlavi, son of the late Shah.

The regime knows it will not fall because some dare to talk of women’s rights or ethnic separatism. Everyone in Iran knows what it is truly afraid of: the return of the Pahlavi dynasty which ruled the country from 1925 to 1979. For 44 years, state media did not mention the possibility of Pahlavi’s return; suddenly they have broken their silence, calling him the greatest threat to Iranian peace and security.

In the absence of official polls, hard data is elusive, but a recent survey conducted among Iranian citizens by researchers in the United States suggested that 80 per cent of respondents favoured the crown prince as leader of the country. Two Iranian academics in the Netherlands placed him top of a list of 24 candidates drawn from the regime and elsewhere.

In the regime’s own account, the majority of those detained during the 2022-23 protests advocated constitutional monarchy for Iran. Many of those jailed or executed were guilty of exhibiting the “lion-and-sun” flag, symbol of pre-1979 Iran; the first execution victim had tattooed it on his arm. The flag now circulates as social media code for restoration of the constitutional monarchy. Risking their lives, young people raise it above highways, or graffiti it on city walls, alongside slogans such as Javid shah — “Long live the king.

How could young protesters be so traditional? The answer, once again, is ordinary. Like young people everywhere else, they desire economic opportunity, social freedom, international peace, and ecological sustainability. And they think constitutional monarchy is the best route.….

As young Iranians look for alternatives, they are naturally fascinated by the progress made in the decades before 1979.

After a long period of breakdown, the Pahlavi dynasty reunified the country, introduced the rule of law and established modern parliamentary institutions. The reign of Pahlavi’s father saw dramatic social development: expanded literacy, freedom of religion, rights and protections for women and children. (These protections were thrown out in 1979, when long-outlawed practices such as child marriage, polygamy and unilateral divorce by men were authorised again.) Iran under the Shah was — like other fledgling democracies of the time — less democratic than Britain. But it was immeasurably freer than what replaced it.

Large infrastructure projects, the nationalisation of forests and pasturelands, profit-sharing by industrial workers and land reforms produced rapid economic growth: GDP grew at an average of 8.8 per cent, increasing three-fold, between 1960 and 1978.

Such progress was abruptly aborted in 1979; Iranians hope that, with a new Pahlavi era, it might be resumed. The crown prince’s popularity derives in part from the connection he provides to a lost process of political progress, and indeed to a lost national identity. Protesters of all political hues have rallied behind his proposals for a secular, democratic Iran. He promises “peace and reconciliation” for the country’s transition and a founding referendum in which all Iranians, regardless of religious and political views, can select their preferred form of governance.

But Pahlavi is not only a symbol of a previous epoch. His peace visit to Israel in April 2023 convinced many Iranians that he might be capable of ending one of the Middle East’s structural enmities, and so making a decisive contribution to 21st-century peace. His interest in water conservation, and in a post-fossil fuel energy plan, persuades many that he can institute a government of the future, and not just the past.

Some may still find return of the monarchy a surprising fixation for a youthful movement. But to young Iranians neighbouring republics such as Iraq or Syria are significantly more depressing than Middle Eastern monarchies. Given the ancient political traditions that are so much part of their national identity, Iranians also hope to avoid the flaws of other monarchies in the region: to be closer to Britain than Saudi Arabia.


Despite this weekend’s hollow election, the Islamic Republic is unlikely to withstand another nationwide uprising. Iranians are seizing upon a replacement who can unite the country under the banner of secular democracy. At the time of writing, there is only one such candidate. Surprising though he may be.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1764706671912231021?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


BREAKING:

The container ship MSC SKY II is on fire after having been hit by a Houthi anti-ship missile.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x725/image_d186435e758fa7e1f783a293ce826ae93f218fb7.png
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[Lonewolf_50]

While not aviation related, he probably flew to the US at some point ...

On Friday, the FBI warned that an Iranian national looking to assassinate Trump officials over the killing of Iranian General Qasem Soleimani was on the loose The FBI (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/fbi) in Miami has warned of an Iranian assassin that is wanted in connection to assassination targets against former and current public officials, such as those involved in former President Donald Trump (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/donald-trump)'s administration. The FBI field office in Miami shared a wanted notice for Majid Dastjani Farahani on Friday. "Majid Dastjani Farahani, an Iranian intelligence officer, is wanted for questioning in connection with the recruitment of individuals for various operations in the United States, to include lethal targeting of current and former United States Government officials as revenge for the killing of IRGC-QF Commander Qasem Soleimani (https://www.newsweek.com/isis-claims-deadliest-attack-iran-since-islamic-revolution-1857861)," the FBI stated.

"Farahani also reportedly recruited individuals for surveillance activities focused on religious sites, businesses, and other facilities in the United States," the FBI said. "Farahani acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, Iran's Ministry of Intelligence and Security."

The announcement by the FBI comes amid heightened tensions between Iran and the U.S. (https://www.newsweek.com/us-strikes-syria-iraq-everything-1866550) Earlier this year, three U.S. Service members were killed at a military base in Jordan. President Joe Biden (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/joe-biden) announced that "radical, Iran-backed militant groups operating in Syria and Iraq," (https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-officially-notifies-congress-iraq-syria-strikes-1866718) were responsible, prompting speculation on Iran's role in the incident. While Machiavelli might have approved, I am not sure if Sun Tzu would find this to be an effective means of "winning without fighting" ... even though Sun Tzu did advocate for assassination.

[Lonewolf_50]

More fun in the Straits The deputy chairman of the Presidential Leadership Council in Yemen has sounded the “alarm” about the continued Houthi threats to Yemen, according to an article at Al-Ain in the UAE. The UAE has supported Abd al-Rahman al-Mahrami in the past. He spoke about the current Houthi threat in Aden while meeting with a UN envoy, the article said.
His comments come after a ship sank in the Red Sea after being hit by a Houthi missile (https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-790178) two weeks ago. In addition, the Houthis continue to attack ships.

He also said the “patience of the Presidential Command Council with the violations of the terrorist Houthi militia is running out, and that its support for the peaceful political option in the peace process will not last long.”

This means that some Yemenis are tired of the way the Houthis have hijacked the country (https://www.jpost.com/international/article-790239) to turn it into a platform for Iran and Iran’s proxy war against Israel, the US, and the region. “The [Houthi] militias’ continued hostilities towards the positions of the armed forces, the mobilization of fighters on various fronts, and the targeting of commercial ships and international shipping routes threaten to detonate the situation and undermine all peaceful efforts,” he said.

He also slammed the increase in smuggling of Iranian weapons to the Houthis. He says this violates a 2018 agreement and other trends that were supposed to bring peace to Yemen.

“The Yemeni vice president called on the United Nations and the international community to reconsider the seriousness of these militias in seeking peace and to exert a lot of pressure on them in any future settlement,” the Al-Ain article said.

The comments are important because the Houthis have had relative impunity until now to continue attacking ships and causing unprecedented damage to Yemen. Yemen is a poor country (https://www.jpost.com/international/article-789936), but Iran seeks to use it as a platform to attack the region rather than help it prosper and bring peace. The UAE, Saudi Arabia, and other countries have backed peace efforts after years of war that began in 2015 when the Houthis tried to take Aden. Now, it seems some Yemenis are tired of the negative attention the Houthis bring to the country.
Caveat: source was Jerusalem Post, so maybe use a grain of salt.

[Lyneham Lad]

Two killed in Houthi missile attack on cargo ship - US officials (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68490695) - BBC NewsTwo crew members have been killed in a Houthi missile strike on a cargo ship off southern Yemen, US officials say - the first deaths the group's attacks on merchant vessels have caused.

The Barbados-flagged True Confidence had been abandoned and was drifting with a fire on board, managers said.

It was hit in the Gulf of Aden at about 09:30 GMT, they added.

The Houthis say their attacks are to support the Palestinians in the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

In a statement, the Iran-backed group said the True Confidence's crew had ignored warnings from Houthi naval forces.

The British embassy in Yemen said the sailors' deaths were the "sad but inevitable consequence of the Houthis recklessly firing missiles at international shipping" and insisted the attacks had to stop.

Six crew members were also injured, a US official told the BBC's US partner CBS.

The attack happened about 50 nautical miles (93km) south-west of the Yemeni city of Aden, a spokesman for the ship's owners and managers said in a statement.

The True Confidence had been hailed over VHF radio by a group calling itself the "Yemeni navy" and told to change course, according to the United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations (UKMTO) agency.

Nearby vessels then reported a loud bang and a large plume of smoke.

The UKMTO said the True Confidence was hit and suffered damage, and that naval vessels from a US-led international maritime coalition were supporting the ship and its crew.

The EU's Maritime Security Centre-Horn of Africa (MSCHOA) also said that rescue and salvage operations were under way.

The ship managers' spokesman said he had no information about the condition of the ship's crew of 20 sailors and three armed guards.

The Houthis claimed in their statement that the True Confidence was an "American ship", but the spokesman said the vessel had "no current connection with any US entity".

The True Confidence is owned by True Confidence Shipping SA, which is registered to an address in Liberia, and operated by Third January Maritime Ltd in Greece, he said.

However it had previously been owned by US-based Oaktree Capital Management, AP reported. Oaktree declined to comment to AP.

Click the link for remainder of article & map.

[Lonewolf_50]

Two killed in Houthi missile attack on cargo ship - US officials (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68490695) - BBC News
Click the link for remainder of article & map. OK, there is a fire on board ship, and the crew abandoned the ship. Do not merchant ships have firefighting procedures? Is this a side effect of minimum manning?
(For context: I spent a career in the Navy where shipboard firefighting was a core competency everyone had to have...perhaps the Merchant Navy has different requirements).

[Asturias56]

OK, there is a fire on board ship, and the crew abandoned the ship. Do not merchant ships have firefighting procedures? Is this a side effect of minimum manning?
(For context: I spent a career in the Navy where shipboard firefighting was a core competency everyone had to have...perhaps the Merchant Navy has different requirements).

They're not paid enough to risk their lives - they take to the boats because that's what's wisest for them - they know the owners will just claim on insurance.

[ORAC]

Early this morning US Navy vessels and aircraft along with multiple coalition navy ships and aircraft shot down 15 Houthi attack drones fired into the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.

[ORAC]

CENTCOM:

March 11 Red Sea Update

Between 8:50 a.m. and 12:50 p.m. (Sanaa time) on March 11, Iranian-backed Houthi terrorists fired two anti-ship ballistic missiles from Houthi-controlled areas of into the Red Sea toward merchant vessel Pinocchio, a Singaporean-owned, Liberian-flagged ship. The missiles did not impact the vessel and there were no injuries or damage reported.

Between 2:50-11:30 p.m. (Sanaa time) on March 11, United States Central Command conducted six self-defense strikes destroying an unmanned underwater vessel and 18 anti-ship missiles in Houthi controlled areas of Yemen. It was determined these weapons presented an imminent threat to merchant vessels and U.S. Navy ships in the region. These actions are taken to protect freedom of navigation and make international waters safer and more secure for U.S. Navy and merchant vessels.

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times this afternoon.
China and Russia join Iranian naval drills amid Red Sea crisis (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/url-china-russia-iran-gulf-oman-naval-drills-xppttr87f)China and Russia have joined Iran in naval exercises in the approaches to the Red Sea, in response to the US-led military operation to protect merchant shipping from missile attacks.

Beijing announced that a destroyer, a frigate and a naval supply ship would be deployed with Russian and Iranian counterparts for the exercises in the Gulf of Oman, which began on Tuesday morning.

The Houthis, an Iranian-backed rebel group that controls northwest Yemen, is attacking western merchant shipping sailing through the Gulf towards the Red Sea and the Suez Canal as a protest against Israel’s actions in the Gaza war. In retaliation, American and British jets are striking Houthi targets.

China’s 45th naval task force is stationed at a base in Djibouti, in the Horn of Africa, and has been escorting Chinese vessels in the area, though the Houthis have made clear that Russian and Chinese ships are not a target.

At the same time, US intelligence agencies issued their “annual threat assessment” to Congress, identifying China’s military development as one of America’s main challenges.

It specifically warned that China, Russia and Iran were “challenging longstanding rules of the international system as well as US primacy within it”.

In previous years, China has co-operated with the US and other countries in policing the Gulf of Oman against Somali pirates. The West has urged Beijing to use its influence with Iran to put a stop to Houthi attacks.


Beijing has said it condemns attacks on shipping, without identifying either the Houthis or Iran, and that it “has been making active efforts to ease the tension in the Red Sea”. However, it is unclear how much influence it has over Tehran, let alone over the Houthis themselves.

The beginning of the naval exercise coincided with the end of the annual meeting of China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress, at which Communist Party leaders indicated a harder line against the US and its western allies.


The US threat assessment was published alongside the Biden administration’s proposed budget for next year, which set aside specific military funding for Taiwan for the first time.

In response, Wang Wenbin, spokesman for the Chinese foreign ministry, accused the US of “malicious competition that sets traps everywhere for opponents and hinders progress”.

“If one tries to suppress China at all costs, in the end, it will only harm oneself,” he said. “We hope that the US side will correct its misconceptions about China.”

[ORAC]

https://x.com/alexluck9/status/1770895109917204883?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Well, here we go. The French Navy demonstrates a ballistic missile defence capability using legacy Aster 30 missiles. Incidentally proving me wrong on my previous skepticism re this capability.

BZ and happy to see they can pull this off.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/03/french-navy-air-defense-fremm-intercepts-3-ballistic-missiles/

French Navy Air Defense FREMM Intercepts 3 Ballistic Missiles

EUNAVFOR ASPIDES is an EU military operation in the Red Sea, the Indian Ocean and the Gulf. The operation was launched a month ago and its objective is to restore and safeguard freedom of navigation in the Red Sea and the Gulf.

The operation announced today on social media X(formerly known as Twitter): “On March 21, an EUNAVFOR ASPIDES French ship while providing close protection to merchant shipping in South Red Sea, intercepted and destroyed 3 ballistic missiles posing a direct threat to the FoN.“

The French ministry of the armed forces issued the following press release:

On the morning of March 21, 2024, as part of the European operation ASPIDES, a French frigate operating in the south of the Red Sea detected three ballistic missiles coming from Yemen and targeting its position and that of the container ships that it she accompanied. The frigate, reacting in self-defense, engaged and destroyed the missiles.

Alongside their allies, the French armies contribute to maritime security and participate in the defense of freedom of navigation, particularly from the Suez Canal to the Strait of Hormuz, the objective of the EUNAVFOR ASPIDES operation launched by the European Union. on February 19.….

Based on the released image of the engagement, a salvo of three missiles were fired by Alsace. The interception of three ballistic missiles is a complex task and shows the high level of training and professionalism of the crew, as well as the quality of the sensors and weapons systems fitted on the FREMM. Aster 30 long range surface to air missiles were likely used for the interception, with the targets tracked by the Herakles multifunction radar.

The interception of ballistic missiles in an operational context marks a first for the French Navy. The event also marks the first “kill” of a ballistic missile by an MBDA Aster family missile in combat. The capability was demonstrated in live condition back in December 2011, when an Aster 30 missile fired from a French Horizon type Air Defense Destroyer downed an Israeli Black Sparrow ballistic missile target (launched from an Israeli Air Force F-15 jet), but this was in a controlled, testing environment… [[url=https://spacenews.com/french-air-force-intercepts-israeli-target-missile/]Erratum: This 2011 test actually involved land-based SAMP/T system with Aster 30, not a navy destroyer]

[Lyneham Lad]

On BBC News website (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68709133) - Israeli air strike destroys Iranian consulate in Syria, says state media.



A suspected Israeli strike has destroyed the Iranian consulate building in Syria's capital, Damascus, Syrian state media report
Photos show smoke and dust rising from the flattened multi-storey structure in the west of the city
A senior Revolutionary Guards commander Brig-Gen Mohammad Reza Zahedi is among the dead, Iranian state media says
The Israeli military says it does not comment on foreign media reports
The Syrian defence ministry said Israeli aircraft targeted the consulate building at about 17:00 local time (14:00 GMT)

Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Zahedi was an important figure in the Quds Force, the overseas branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).

He joined the IRGC 44 years ago and quickly rose to a top rank. He served as the commander of the Syria and Lebanon operation of the IRGC from 2008 to 2016, during which his forces fought in support of President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian civil war.

Iranian media have been sharing a picture of him with Imad Mughniyeh, the number two in Hezbollah's leadership who was assassinated in a car bomb in 2008.

Iran has blamed Israel for Zahedi’s death, in a sign of escalating tensions between the two countries.

In a phone call with his Syrian counterpart, Iran’s Foreign Minister, Hossein Amir Abdollahian condemned the strike on the Iranian consulate in Damascus.

He said Israel had “violated all its international commitments and conventions” and that it would be held responsible for such “criminal actions”.

Iranian foreign ministry's website quoted Abdollahian saying that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had "completely lost his mental balance" after "repeated defeats in Gaza".

Hossein Akbari, Iran’s Ambassador to Damascus, said that the attack on the Iranian consulate showed “Israel did not recognize any international laws and was ready take any kind of inhumane action to achieve its goals”.

[Lonewolf_50]

On BBC News website (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68709133) - Israeli air strike destroys Iranian consulate in Syria, says state media.
Interesting: the feed I saw it on called it the embassy. Glad I checked multiple sources and took a look here also.
Hossein Akbari, Iran’s Ambassador to Damascus, said that the attack on the Iranian consulate showed “Israel did not recognize any international laws and was ready take any kind of inhumane action to achieve its goals”.
That's rich, coming from Iran.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1774841979488108647?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
Iranian State Media has now Confirmed that in addition to Mohammad-Reza Zahedi and Mohammad-Haji Rahim that Brigadier General Hossein Amirollah, the Chief of the General Staff for IRGC’s Quds Force in Syria and Lebanon was also Killed in the Israeli Airstrike on Damascus, with it now appearing that at least 3 Brigadier Generals were Eliminated in today’s Strike.

Zahedi = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Zahedi

Rahimi = Deputy commander IRGC Quds force

https://news.sky.com/story/senior-iranian-commander-killed-in-strike-on-irans-consulate-in-syria-iran-state-media-13106229

[Lonewolf_50]

Interesting bit about Iran and their relation to Russia: apparently at about the same time that American officials were warning of an increased terrorist attack threat in Moscow, the Iranian intelligence services also provided Russia with a similar caution / warning of significant terrorist threats coalescing. The article I read this in did not have much detail other than the report from Tehran. .

[RatherBeFlying]

It's one thing to assassinate individuals and quite another to crater an entire embassy. Iran likely doesn't have the capability to carry out an air strike against an Israeli embassy in a country where it doesn't have good relations, but I'd be watching out for truck bombs, or a Shahed drone could be smuggled within range and launched.

[magyar_flyer]

That's rich, coming from Iran.

I see your point but the Vienna convention of 61 (to which Israel is part) is by large fairly well respected worldwide for the past 60+ years.
This is a major escalation. Operationally remarkable... but with consequence.

[ORAC]

Excellent article.

https://amwaj.media/article/inside-story-israel-declares-war-on-iran-s-warrior-diplomats

Inside story: Israel declares war on Iran’s warrior-diplomats

[Lonewolf_50]

I see your point but the Vienna convention of 61 (to which Israel is part) is by large fairly well respected worldwide for the past 60+ years.
Tehran 1979 being a substantial exception, hence my remark. (And the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in 1999 during a NATO airstrike over Belgrade...).
Operationally remarkable... but with consequence. Yes, it will have consequences.
I was reading up on the Israel Syria thing the other day.
Israel has, since 2011, conducted well over 100 air strikes into Syria for a variety of reasons, hitting either Hezbollah or other Iran proxy locations/assets.
I get the idea that Mr Netanyahu is seeing how far he can push until he finds the edge. He may have found one.
I don't think Iran is going to take this sitting down.

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israel-on-high-alert-after-iran-missile-retaliation-threat

Israel on high alert after Iran’s missile retaliation threat

Israel has suspended leave for combat units and heightened its air defence command to deal with possible missile or drone attack from Iran following the killing this week in an airstrike (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/01/israeli-airstrike-on-iranian-consulate-in-damascus-kills-irgc-commander) of senior Revolutionary Guard commanders in Syria.

The Israeli military is also considering reopening shelters in Tel Aviv (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jun/08/tel-avivs-central-bus-station-theres-a-society-inside-the-building) as a precaution against a possible attack, according to Mehr News Agency.

“In accordance with the situational assessment, it has been decided that leave will be temporarily paused for all IDF (Israel Defense Forces) combat units. The IDF is at war and the deployment of forces is under continuous assessment according to requirements,” the military said in a statement......

The IDF has also intensified GPS jamming efforts in response to the threat of an Iranian retaliation, causing disruptions to navigation services and impacting daily operations. The use of GPS jamming is an apparent measure meant to ward off guided missiles.

Reports indicate that the jamming has expanded to key areas in Israel, including Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. These measures have raised concerns about potential implications on aviation safety and daily life.

Amos Yadlin, a former Israeli intelligence chief, told Reuters that Iran may choose this Friday – the last in the holy Muslim month of Ramadan and Iran’s Quds (Jerusalem) Day – to respond to the Damascus strike, either directly or through a proxy.

“I will not be surprised if Iran will act tomorrow. Don’t panic. Don’t run to the shelters,” said Yadlin, a senior fellow at the Kennedy School’s Belfer Center at Harvard University, citing Israel’s aerial defence systems. “Be tuned for tomorrow and then, depending on the consequences of the attack, it may escalate,” Yadlin said....

[ORAC]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1775649238791114895?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Major attack by the Baluchi separatists in Jaish Al-Adl against Islamic regime police stations in the cities of Sarbaz and Chabahar as well as an attack against an IRGC weapon depot in Rask.

The group claims to have killed more than a dozen policemen and IRGC officers.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/905x773/image_aa76b82061968f28e2423e949adf1bad44d01e5d.jpeg
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[ORAC]

https://x.com/marionawfal/status/1775851263441174997?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


​​​​​​​IRAN UNDER ATTACK: SIMULTANEOUS STRIKES HIT 5 MILITARY BASES INSIDE IRAN - 10 DEAD

Iran has accused "foreign intelligence services" of launching simultaneous attacks on 5 military and security headquarters in the Iranian cities of Chabahar and Rask.

IRGC: "We warn enemies in the region, and outside it, and terrorist groups: national security and stability are a red line.

We will confront any threat decisively and firmly."

Source: Al Mayadeen

[Spunky Monkey]

Iran is starting to see the consequences of FAFO.
Not a day too soon.

[Lonewolf_50]

Interesting development: Iran publicly tells/asks the US to "stay out of our way" as they prepare a retaliation for the strike in Lebanon.
(Bloomberg) -- Iran said it asked the US to “step aside” as the country prepares a response to a suspected Israeli attack (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-02/iran-says-sent-us-message-over-deadly-israeli-strike-on-compound) on its consulate in Syria while Hezbollah, its main proxy in the Middle East, warned the Jewish state it’s prepared for war. In a written message to Washington, Iran “warned the US not to get dragged into Netanyahu’s trap,” Mohammad Jamshidi, the Iranian president’s deputy chief of staff for political affairs, wrote on X, referring to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The US should “step aside so that you don’t get hit.”

“In response, the US asked Iran not to hit American targets,” Jamshidi said. The US hasn’t commented on the alleged message Iran had sent.

CNN reported that the US is on high alert and is preparing for a “significant” response from Iran against Israeli or American targets in the region. The network cited an unnamed US official. NBC, citing two unnamed US officials, said President Joe Biden’s administration is concerned any attack could be inside Israel, specifically against “military or intelligence targets, rather than civilians.”

The Biden administration did take the unusual step of communicating directly to Iran that the US was unaware Monday’s strike in Damascus would happen, Bloomberg reported. That suggested the US was trying to prevent its own forces and bases in the Middle East being attacked. The Islamic Republic has said it will deliver a “slap” to Israel, its arch enemy. Still, it’s unclear when that would happen or whether Iran would try to attack Israel directly or through one of its proxy groups such as Hezbollah, based in Lebanon.

The airstrike hit the Iranian consulate in Damascus, killing at least seven Iranians, including two generals. While Israel has repeatedly targeted Iran-linked assets in Syria over the past few months, this was the first time an attack struck an Iranian diplomatic building. Israel has been on alert since then, canceling home leave for combat troops, calling up reserves and bolstering air defenses. Its military scrambled navigational signals over Tel Aviv on Thursday to disrupt GPS-navigated drones or missiles that might be fired at the country. Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, on Friday said a response from Iran is undoubtedly coming. But, he said, his group won’t “interfere in such decisions.”

“And after that, how Israel will behave, the region would enter in a new phase,” Nasrallah said in a televised speech. Nasrallah, who lives in hiding, highlighted the coordinated work of Iran’s so-called resistance groups in the region. Hezbollah, the Middle East’s most powerful militia, said the group hasn’t used “its primary arsenal” in the daily skirmishes with Israel along the southern border of Lebanon since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on Oct. 7. Hezbollah is “completely prepared and ready” for any war with Israel, Nasrallah said.

[ORAC]

Videoshttps://x.com/sentdefender/status/1778834893268455577?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Footage showing dozens of Interceptions by the Israeli Iron Dome and MIM-104 “Patriot” Air Defense batteries over northern Israel within the last few minutes following a large barrage of rockets and drones launched by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon; in my opinion this could be an attempt to exhaust the stocks of Israeli SAM batteries in the north of the country, before a larger attack using land-attack cruise and other more advanced missiles.

[212man]

Videos

Footage showing dozens of Interceptions by the Israeli Iron Dome and MIM-104 “Patriot” Air Defense batteries over northern Israel within the last few minutes following a large barrage of rockets and drones launched by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon; in my opinion this could be an attempt to exhaust the stocks of Israeli SAM batteries in the north of the country, before a larger attack using land-attack cruise and other more advanced missiles.
Exactly that!

[ORAC]

https://x.com/broseph_stalin/status/1778831107699446113?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
BREAKING: “Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Kuwait raised questions about basing agreements that permit US troops to be stationed across the gulf. They are moving to prevent US warplanes from flying over their airspace in the event US conducts a strike on Iran.”

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x681/image_f96f34ce4fe1a9496ba8eeb84d2a3ca1f8152727.png
​​​​​​​

[ORAC]

https://x.com/partisangirl/status/1778851883517718920?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


BREAKING🚨 A second Hezbollah volley of missiles is on its way depleting the Iron Dome.

[Asturias56]

the Iranians may just decide to go and test their first nuclear device.....................

[DogTailRed2]

BREAKING🚨 A second Hezbollah volley of missiles is on its way depleting the Iron Dome.
So they reload it?

[DogTailRed2]

the Iranians may just decide to go and test their first nuclear device.....................
If that's the case then it's good bye Iran.

[SWBKCB]

So they reload it?

How long can they keep doing that?

[DogTailRed2]

How long can they keep doing that?
For as long as they need to.

[Asturias56]

If that's the case then it's good bye Iran.

REALLY? And just who is going to invade Iran pray? Or even go to war with them?

Or do you think that the Israeli's will drop a bucket of instant sunshine on them? Because no-one else will.

[DogTailRed2]

REALLY? And just who is going to invade Iran pray? Or even go to war with them?

Or do you think that the Israeli's will drop a bucket of instant sunshine on them? Because no-one else will.
I smell a troll however if Iran nukes Israel as previously suggested the West has the ability to ensure Iran doesn't drop another. The West out guns them 1000 to 1. A conventional war would suffice. Iran has very few friends.

[Ninthace]

A lot of posters seem content for a lot of people to die to satisfy their blood lust.

[back to Boeing]

Not usually a poster in these realms but it seems
like Iran has just escalated things.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/4/13/irans-irgc-seizes-israeli-linked-ship-near-strait-of-hormuz

[Asturias56]

I smell a troll however if Iran nukes Israel as previously suggested the West has the ability to ensure Iran doesn't drop another. The West out guns them 1000 to 1. A conventional war would suffice. Iran has very few friends.

No - you said "Goodbye Iran" - I was only asking who and how you think this is going to happen. I never suggest that Iran would nuke Israel - I said they'd carry out A TEST to prove they now are a nuclear power. They have a habit of not responding directly to actions by their opponents - attacking Israel is what everyone expects - I suspect they may do something different

[DogTailRed2]

No - you said "Goodbye Iran" - I was only asking who and how you think this is going to happen. I never suggest that Iran would nuke Israel - I said they'd carry out A TEST to prove they now are a nuclear power. They have a habit of not responding directly to actions by their opponents - attacking Israel is what everyone expects - I suspect they may do something different
What I suspect will happen is Iran will annoy Israel. Israel will spank Iran and it will go quiet for another 10 years. That's what has happened for the past 50 years and it's unlikely to change. The hamster wheel will keep revolving.

[tdracer]

What I suspect will happen is Iran will annoy Israel. Israel will spank Iran and it will go quiet for another 10 years. That's what has happened for the past 50 years and it's unlikely to change. The hamster wheel will keep revolving.
I kind of hate to say this, but what you've outlined is close to a 'best case' scenario.

[Toadstool]

https://x.com/idf/status/1779242779182288964?s=46&t=MH0uzVM7rGjo1LICzaClGg

Reports that İran has launched drones against Israel.

Iran launched UAVs from within its territory toward Israel a short while ago. The IDF is on high alert and is constantly monitoring the operational situation. The IDF Aerial Defense Array is on high alert, along with IAF fighter jets and Israeli Navy vessels that are on a defense mission in Israeli air and naval space. The IDF is monitoring all targets.

[rattman]

What I suspect will happen is Iran will annoy Israel. Israel will spank Iran and it will go quiet for another 10 years. That's what has happened for the past 50 years and it's unlikely to change. The hamster wheel will keep revolving.

if its just the shaheeds, iran can claim they struck back against the infidels. Meanwhile american and a israel fighters intercept all/most of them. If thats all then its probably no harm no foul, but if they launch IRBM and better cruise missiles it will be on

Shaheeds have been spotted over norther iraq inbound to a israel

[ORAC]

The point here is that Iran has directly attacked Israel - which gives Israel carte blanc to retaliate with direct attacks against Iranian targets both within Iran and afloat in the Red Sea.,.,

Drones are expected to reach Israel in about 2 hours.

[skydiver69]

My wife is in Tehran at the moment and was due to fly back to the UK tonight. She boarded her flight but I've just heard that its been cancelled which is good in a way as she is still on the ground. I giess its going to take a while to work out when she will be safe to fly home though.

[AnglianAV8R]

Beirut airport closed. Jordan, Iran, Yemen airspace closing. RAF Voyager flown from Akrotiri to Beirut. US fighters reportedly intercepting drones over Iraq and Jordan and Jordan has been reported as allowing Israeli fighters to go through their airspace to intercept drones. Drones also reported to be launched from Yemen and numerous Hezbollah rockets from S Lebanon. Further reports that RAF fighters took off from Akrotiri and are intercepting drones over I raq.

[fitliker]

The Iranians were bragging about having over four thousand missiles in tunnels .
Seal off the tunnels and the people in them and this could be a very short fireworks display .

[Dannyboy39]

A KC135 has been squawking 7700 for a good hour and positioning into DOH.

Is that normal in this situation?

[Jobza Guddun]

Looks like three tankers airborne over Israel right now, can only imagine how much hardware they have up. May calm heads prevail in future.

[ORAC]

A KC135 has been squawking 7700 for a good hour and positioning into DOH.

Is that normal in this situation?
Emergencies by definition aren’t normal - but they also aren’t uncommon, and probably unrelated to anything currently occurring.

[NutLoose]

My wife is in Tehran at the moment and was due to fly back to the UK tonight. She boarded her flight but I've just heard that its been cancelled which is good in a way as she is still on the ground. I giess its going to take a while to work out when she will be safe to fly home though.


I hope she is ok and soon home with you.

[NutLoose]

Cruise missiles overflying Iraq heading to Israel, why do I think Iran has just wakened a response that they will regret.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1779274911816572981

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1779274911816572981

[Jonty]

According to the Telegraph, Iran have launched ballistic missiles at Israel also.

[Buster Hyman]

Launches Drones.
Watch them get shot down.
Sees Cruise Missiles launch.
Issues statement...

https://x.com/Iran_UN/status/1779269993043022053

[jethro15]

To some it may seem a dumb question, but warfare is not my forte
Given tonight's developments, I've heard of American and UK air forces being involved. Is anyone else involved? Or is it a stupid question to ask?

[Diff Tail Shim]

A Woke view. Russia would do fook all if the people of Iran were liberated.

[NutLoose]

Wow, simply wow, look at the iron dome at work.

https://twitter.com/PeterMaya1996/status/1779273090217783368

​​​​​​​https://twitter.com/PeterMaya1996/status/1779273090217783368

[NutLoose]

https://twitter.com/UFO_X_/status/1779286240405119329

​​​​​​​https://twitter.com/UFO_X_/status/1779286240405119329

[Jonty]

To all the boys and girls on operations tonight, good hunting, and come home safely.

[NutLoose]

Middle East situation @ 23.55 UK time: - Sky reports UK fighters involved in Op over Jordan to down drones - Msg from Iran at UN suggests they hope to contain this as a retaliatory strike - sirens in Israel suggest likely impact points , including prestige sites like Dimona nuke facility https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLFFP2qWEAAVw_e?format=jpg&name=medium (https://t.co/nyM8KcjTAs)

As said stay safe… as for Iran’s message, it will fall like chaf scattered to the wind

[Diff Tail Shim]

as said stay safe…
Stay safe is not end up.on the ground.

[NutLoose]

https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779286720002830784

​​​​​​​https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1779286720002830784

[ORAC]

Latest report is that attack numbered 300 drones and cruise missiles.

99% successfully intercepted, no Israeli casualties except one 10 year old girl wounded by falling shrapnel - unknown if from a target or defensive missile.

No indication as too targets and effect of the unintercepted targets.

[Bob Viking]

RAF fighter jets deployed to shoot down Iran drones, MoD says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68810774

Not sure why the RAF need to get dragged into it. Especially when Israel have not even had the decency to admit that they bombed the Iranian Consulate.

BV

[ORAC]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1779307659872645623?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Crazy footage from tonight showing what appears to be an exo-atmospheric interception, an interception which occurs outside the Earth’s atmosphere, of an Iranian ballistic missile over Israel.

The intercept was likely conducted by an Israeli “Arrow 3” hypersonic Surface-to-Air Missile system or a U.S. navy ship off the coast utilizing an SM-3.

[DogTailRed2]

Crazy footage from tonight showing what appears to be an exo-atmospheric interception, an interception which occurs outside the Earth’s atmosphere, of an Iranian ballistic missile over Israel.

The intercept was likely conducted by an Israeli “Arrow 3” hypersonic Surface-to-Air Missile system or a U.S. navy ship off the coast utilizing an SM-3.
I'll go with it but looks more like lens flare.

[pr00ne]

Latest report is that attack numbered 300 drones and cruise missiles.

99% successfully intercepted, no Israeli casualties except one 10 year old girl wounded by falling shrapnel - unknown if from a target or defensive missile.

No indication as too targets and effect of the unintercepted targets.

According to the IDF it was 150 drones, 120 ballistic missiles and 30 cruise missiles.

[Fortissimo]

RAF fighter jets deployed to shoot down Iran drones, MoD says https://www.b (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68810774)

Not sure why the RAF need to get dragged into it. Especially when Israel have not even had the decency to admit that they bombed the Iranian Consulate.

BV

Perhaps the UK working to prevent the major escalation that would likely follow a successful Iranian strike on Israel?

[Bob Viking]

Maybe when you consider that the IDF has considerably more combat ready fighters than the RAF and it’s in their own backyard they should take care of what they started themselves. And escalation is what happens when other nations get involved.

BV

[skydiver69]

I hope she is ok and soon home with you.
Thanks Nutty. She's back at her parent's flat now so we're waiting for the dust to settle so that we can rebook her return flight. All seems calm in nothern Tehran with the sabre rattling being done on the TV. None of the extended family are fans of the Mullahs and would love to see them overthrown.

[DogTailRed2]

Perhaps the UK working to prevent the major escalation that would likely follow a successful Iranian strike on Israel?
Most likely providing some `eyes` to Israel so they are forewarned about anything incoming and ready to mop up anything unusual that slips through the net.

[Raikum]

The impression I get is that Iran signallled exactly what it was going to do, allowing Israel, the US, UK and interestingly Jordan to have assets on hand to counter the attack; something that Iran anticipated, even expected if not 'welcomed'. In itheir tortured logic the Mullahs felt they had no option but to retaliate but did so in a fashion which had lots of bark but as they knew if not ensured had minimal bite. I would not be surprised if they even passed the targeting coordinates to the US;...

[SWBKCB]

Would any other country (UK included) "sit on its hands" if it had been attacked by over 300 drones and ballistic missiles? Genuine question.

I would hope so - I suppose it needs a judgement about what the intention was of the Iranian attack. Was it a genuine assault or a spectacular way of saving face?

it's currently 1-0 Israel, what would retaliating against their retaliation achieve?

[m0nkfish]

Maybe when you consider that the IDF has considerably more combat ready fighters than the RAF and it’s in their own backyard they should take care of what they started themselves. And escalation is what happens when other nations get involved.

BV

I'm very much inclined to agree with you Bob. The situation in the ME is getting worse and the UK should be focussing on deescalating both in terms of what we do and what we say.

I will contend that it is possible that the UK and US were concerned at the scale of the Iranian drone attack, and the possibility it might overwhelm the Iron Dome system. In which case, assisting in repelling the attack would have helped prevent a successful and potentially high casualty strike on Israel that would have itself warranted a further escalatory response from Israel.

Only time will tell, the next few days will be interesting to watch. Hopefully Iran will feel like its strike has sent the desired message and Isreal will not escalate things further. But whatever happens, the fact we have started shooting does mean we have raised the bar, and we need to be so careful that we don't tip toe into continued direct involvement.

[melmothtw]

I'm very much inclined to agree with you Bob. The situation in the ME is getting worse and the UK should be focussing on deescalating both in terms of what we do and what we say.

I will contend that it is possible that the UK and US were concerned at the scale of the Iranian drone attack, and the possibility it might overwhelm the Iron Dome system. In which case, assisting in repelling the attack would have helped prevent a successful and potentially high casualty strike on Israel that would have itself warranted a further escalatory response from Israel.

Only time will tell, the next few days will be interesting to watch. Hopefully Iran will feel like its strike has sent the desired message and Isreal will not escalate things further. But whatever happens, the fact we have started shooting does mean we have raised the bar, and we need to be so careful that we don't tip toe into continued direct involvement.

Israel didn't 'start this themselves', unless you mean by just existing (directed at BV's comment, which I can't now find). Whatever Israel does, Iran will continue to attack via its Hamas, Hezbollah, and Houthi proxies, so either way it's certainly not over.

[NutLoose]

RAF fighter jets deployed to shoot down Iran drones, MoD says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68810774

Not sure why the RAF need to get dragged into it. Especially when Israel have not even had the decency to admit that they bombed the Iranian Consulate.

BV


My post said they operated over Jordan, so maybe they were requested by Jordan to help them. So appears to be separate from Israel.

[harrogate]

My post said they operated over Jordan, so maybe they were requested by Jordan to help them. So appears to be separate from Israel.

But Jordan has 60-odd F-16s. Would they really pull in the RAF to take out drones not even heading for their turf?

[TURIN]

But Jordan has 60-odd F-16s. Would they really pull in the RAF to take out drones not even heading for their turf?
Could it be considered good practice/exercise for RAF crew?

[Ninthace]

Pedant on. Shooting down live munitions in flight is what they are for. What were they practising? Pedant off

[Easy Street]

But Jordan has 60-odd F-16s. Would they really pull in the RAF to take out drones not even heading for their turf?

Relevant (and probably secret) bits of information needed to answer this include the proportion of those 60 available for operations; the number of CAPs deemed necessary to guard* against Iranian weapons (noting that, as well as filling GBAD gaps, fighters might need to fill gaps in surveillance radar coverage due to low altitude and small size of targets); the number of tankers available to extend those CAPs; the distance of the CAPs from bases; and the number of fighters needing to be on ground alert to ensure enough AAMs can be brought up into the fight when it happens. Fighter fleets can very quickly be fully consumed with this kind of task, and with the exception of a few states, their size is usually determined more by financial considerations rather than by exhaustive threat analysis.

* Choosing not to enforce sovereignty of airspace would be a option, but not a politically attractive one for the Jordanians. It could be judged tantamount to complicity. In this regard, the effectiveness of any fighter screen matters less than its visibility, hence no doubt the UK statement that its aircraft were involved.

[TURIN]

Pedant on. Shooting down live munitions in flight is what they are for. What were they practising? Pedant off
Experience on type then. 😁

[m0nkfish]

But Jordan has 60-odd F-16s. Would they really pull in the RAF to take out drones not even heading for their turf?

From multiple drone launches detected to drones in a position to be intercepted is not much time, it is possible that many countries did not have the ability to provide adequate air cover that quickly, whereas one might presume Typhoons are now in a QRA posture in Cyprus so available to respond in very short notice.

All assumptions of course, and I guess we just have to have some confidence in the people calling the shots within our own respective governments; and hope that they are acting with less assumptions and with a view to restoring peace as quickly as possible.

[arf23]

Iran clearly doesn't yet have a nuclear bomb, but a very small dirty nuke cooked off inside Israel would certainly signal intent...

[Buster Hyman]

But Jordan has 60-odd F-16s. Would they really pull in the RAF to take out drones not even heading for their turf?
My first thought would be the fine line Jordan walks in the ME. Directly involving themselves against Iran puts them firmly on one side, allowing the drones through their airspace unhindered puts them on the other. Allowing the RAF to do the work keeps them in the shady side of the politics in that part of the world.

[dead_pan]

Both sides declaring victory, minimal damage & casualties, no reason to escalate surely?

[Easy Street]

My first thought would be the fine line Jordan walks in the ME. Directly involving themselves against Iran puts them firmly on one side, allowing the drones through their airspace unhindered puts them on the other. Allowing the RAF to do the work keeps them in the shady side of the politics in that part of the world.

I don't think it's that fine a balance for them to strike in this instance. The principle of sovereignty would allow them to down any Iranian weapons over their territory while maintaining a neutral stance. That's not a remotely contested concept in diplomacy and they'd be on very firm ground. Granting the UK diplomatic clearance and policy permissions to act in that way over its territory and (presumably) agreeing to the UK declaring its role publicly is tantamount to the same thing in any case. Iran could choose to make things difficult for the Jordanians by highlighting that, or by declaring that they'd sought permission for the weapons to overfly and been refused; they don't seem to have done that yet. The politics of the region are a constraint on Iran as well, of course.

[NutLoose]

My first thought would be the fine line Jordan walks in the ME. Directly involving themselves against Iran puts them firmly on one side, allowing the drones through their airspace unhindered puts them on the other. Allowing the RAF to do the work keeps them in the shady side of the politics in that part of the world.

The worry the RAF must have is of collateral damage and loss of life due to shot down drones or missiles crashing in Jordan, it’s a fine line between success and failure.

[Ninthace]

Given the consequences of not shooting them down and amount of desert below, I would think it was a no brainer.

[pr00ne]

My first thought would be the fine line Jordan walks in the ME. Directly involving themselves against Iran puts them firmly on one side, allowing the drones through their airspace unhindered puts them on the other. Allowing the RAF to do the work keeps them in the shady side of the politics in that part of the world.

The RAF were operating over Syria and Iraq, intercepting drones/cruise missiles in that area from the border.

[West Coast]

Iran clearly doesn't yet have a nuclear bomb, but a very small dirty nuke cooked off inside Israel would certainly signal intent...

Problem is, Israel does. You go nuke and the thought of a proportional response is out the window.

[redsetter]

I would support a Western liberal ally against an autocratic theocracy that openly and routinely calls for our death, every time
Israel is often referred to in the media as an ally of the UK. My definition of an ally would include shared military and political goals and also mutual military and political support. We clearly support Israel - politically in the UN and also on occasion militarily (see latest action). What I'm missing is how Israel supports the UK ? I'm not being sarcastic - a genuine question.

[melmothtw]

Israel is often referred to in the media as an ally of the UK. My definition of an ally would include shared military and political goals and also mutual military and political support. We clearly support Israel - politically in the UN and also on occasion militarily (see latest action). What I'm missing is how Israel supports the UK ? I'm not being sarcastic - a genuine question.

Any flight tracker service will show you RAF aircraft on Op Shader transiting Israeli airspace on a regular basis, so there's one practical show of military support straight off the bat.

[melmothtw]

Anyhow, best to sign off before I'm told to take it to JB.

[Senior Pilot]

Anyhow, best to sign off before I'm told to take it to JB.

There is a thread (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/657272-israel-palestine.html) on Jet Blast for non Mil posts about Israel and Palestine, this Mil Thread is not the place thankyouverymuch 👍

[ORAC]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1779574395473723430?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Senior U.S. defense officials have now revealed that the Arleigh Burke-Class Guided-Missile Destroyers, USS Carney (DDG-64) and USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51) were the two ships of the USN that were in the eastern Mediterranean and launched Standard Missile-3s (SM-3s) to down between 4 and 6 Iranian IRBMs last night over Israel.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/levitt_matt/status/1779577832932344214?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
Jordanian Report picked up in Israel — King Abdullah’s daughter Salma involved in downing five Iranian UAVs.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x713/image_86439dd435689c933ffd799e3a257442266734ae.png
​​​​​​​

[NutLoose]

Strange how all this air defence by the West is exactly what Ukraine has been pleading for the last 3 years, with no effect.

[rattman]

Strange how all this air defence by the West is exactly what Ukraine has been pleading for the last 3 years, with no effect.

strange how everything doesn't have to be about ukraine. Also note israel is an Ally, Ukraine isn't, ukraine never bothered about its defence prior to russian invasion. Ukraine hasn't even bothered with a mobilsation or at the very leased some type of compulsory military training for its citizens.

Ukraine or importantly its mouth pieces need to start being careful about what they say. You cant insult people who charity you are relying on

[Mil-26Man]

strange how everything doesn't have to be about ukraine. Also note israel is an Ally, Ukraine isn't, ukraine never bothered about its defence prior to russian invasion. Ukraine hasn't even bothered with a mobilsation or at the very leased some type of compulsory military training for its citizens.

Ukraine or importantly its mouth pieces need to start being careful about what they say. You cant insult people who charity you are relying on

Silly take and not sure what your agenda is, but Ukraine is very much is an ally. Aside from being a Westward leaning democracy that aspires to EU and NATO membership and which is now fighting the very enemy that NATO was conceived to defend against, Ukraine has contributed troops to ISAF and held bilateral exercises with the US and other NATO nations. Also, not charity.

[West Coast]

Silly take and not sure what your agenda is, but Ukraine is very much is an ally. Aside from being a Westward leaning democracy that aspires to EU and NATO membership and which is now fighting the very enemy that NATO was conceived to defend against, Ukraine has contributed troops to ISAF and held bilateral exercises with the US and other NATO nations. Also, not charity.

Calls into question what an ally is then. Every democracy isn’t an ally, nor is every ally a democracy.

[Herod]

I believe De Gaulle said "France doesn't have allies; only interests". Perhaps not such a bad stance.

[212man]

Jordanian Report picked up in Israel — King Abdullah’s daughter Salma involved in downing five Iranian UAVs.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x713/image_86439dd435689c933ffd799e3a257442266734ae.png

Baloney, I’d say. That’s a PC-21 in the background. She may have flown in an F-16, but the public timelines suggest she could not have reached CR status. Plus, she was doing a degree in California from 2020-23, so not exactly current!

[henra]

Silly take and not sure what your agenda is, but Ukraine is very much is an ally.
Although I'm very much in favour of (even stronger) Support for Ukraine he has a few at least partly valid points. Indeed their Up- arming and preparation for a possible war could have (and should have) been massively better (the same can be said for the Euorpean NATO Countries for sure). Also the reluctance towards higher mobilisation while at the same time asking for more support and even indirectly asking for/allowing troops from Western Countries doesn't really help convincing the Western Countries for more support. Weapons they give to Ukraine may be missing in a later direct conflict should Ukraine still lose due to shortage of manpower. That applies especially to the European Armies who are definitely short on stuff and who have the very real risk of ending up in a direct conflict with Russia not so many Years down the road. The US with its internal politics is a bit of a different matter. For them the risk of ending up unarmed is not very real.

Israel has been a military ally to the West for decades (and this while I strongly dislike Netanjahu and their stupid settlement policy). They are investing massively in being able to defend themselves. They are the only (even if not perfect) democracy in the whole region. They and their religion are not trying to eliminate all others from this planet. Compared to the standards of most of their neighbours they are a welcome deviation. And I repeat myself: Do I think they are doing everything right? No. In Gaza they are massively overshooting. The settlement policy needs to stop for good. And there needs to be a perspective for the Palestinians. Yet I celebrate when missiles launched at Israel are intercepted. And I support and am grateful for the US, UK, Jordan or whomever helps in this.
And from a purely Military perspective: Is there a better test and training of intercepting extra- atmospheric Ballistic Missiles as well as low flying ballistic missiles and long range drones? Those will be extremely usefull skills in the foreseeable future.

[Ninthace]

When you are doing it for real Henra, the time of testing and training has passed.

[RetiredBA/BY]

strange how everything doesn't have to be about ukraine. Also note israel is an Ally, Ukraine isn't, ukraine never bothered about its defence prior to russian invasion. Ukraine hasn't even bothered with a mobilsation or at the very leased some type of compulsory military training for its citizens.

Ukraine or importantly its mouth pieces need to start being careful about what they say. You cant insult people who charity you are relying on
I dont think you quite understand that Ukraine ‘s resistance to illegal aggression by Russia, clearly an enemy of the west, is doing us. a great service. That in my view, makes Ukraine a great ally of the west.
​​​​​​…. and judging by their incredible fighting competence and spirit agains a numerically superior enemy, I believe they would be a great asset to NATO.

[ORAC]

The Wall Street Journal reports US officials saying 'roughly 50% of the ballistic missiles fired by Iran failed to launch or crashed before reaching their target'.

https://x.com/jerusalemdiary/status/1779455215726432605?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Iranian drone stuck in power lines in Kurdish Iraq….

[Economics101]

strange how everything doesn't have to be about ukraine. Also note israel is an Ally, Ukraine isn't, ukraine never bothered about its defence prior to russian invasion. Ukraine hasn't even bothered with a mobilsation or at the very leased some type of compulsory military training for its citizens.

Ukraine or importantly its mouth pieces need to start being careful about what they say. You cant insult people who charity you are relying on
Don't you realise that defeat for Ukraine puts NATO allies like Poland and the Baltics next on Putin's list? So its not just to save Ukraine that Nato members should give all the aid they can: it's also to save themselves from a likely and more deadly situation.
Also I think we should be slow to criticise Ukrains about mobilisation: they have suffered enormous casualties, so easy to sit on the sidelines and yell.

[SWBKCB]

The Wall Street Journal reports US officials saying 'roughly 50% of the ballistic missiles fired by Iran failed to launch or crashed before reaching their target'.



Iranian drone stuck in power lines in Kurdish Iraq….

What sort of range would that have?

[Flap Track 6]

When you are doing it for real Henra, the time of testing and training has passed.

For those of us involved in weapon system verification, real world combat experience is priceless. We go to some lengths to design ‘realistic’ testing scenarios within the bounds of range safety, but actually doing real shooting teaches us a lot about the systems and the people operating them.
Trust me, the lessons from the Red Sea have been eye opening.

[rattman]

Don't you realise that defeat for Ukraine puts NATO allies like Poland and the Baltics next on Putin's list?

Putins not going to attack a nato country. All the countries he has attacked have been non nato.

[ORAC]

Define attack - when you are murdering people in the street in the UK using nerve agents by your intelligence services, that’s an attack as much as exploding a bomb.

[SWBKCB]

Putins not going to attack a nato country. All the countries he has attacked have been non nato.

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the Poles and the Baltic countries.

[melmothtw]

Putins not going to attack a nato country. All the countries he has attacked have been non nato.

"Hitler's not going to attack a non-German speaking country. All the countries he has attacked have been German speaking". Good luck with that, rattman...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e0uOsPBSKPo/sddefault.jpg

[NutLoose]

I wonder if they can refuel it send send it back home ;)

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1779651166881660945

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1779651166881660945

[DogTailRed2]

This war (and the war in Ukraine) is coming to a head and people need to be careful which side they pick.
Do you ally yourself with Democracy or Dictatorship?
Choose wisely.

[NutLoose]

To some it may seem a dumb question, but warfare is not my forte
Given tonight's developments, I've heard of American and UK air forces being involved. Is anyone else involved? Or is it a stupid question to ask?


Not a stupid question first off.

Yes, several countries were involved including those the missiles flew over, Jordan for one.

[magyar_flyer]

France is also claiming involvement.
Apparently they have an airbase in Jordan (which I did not know of).

[wiggy]

France is also claiming involvement.
Apparently they have an airbase in Jordan (which I did not know of).

They’ve been operating out there for quite some time:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20231221-gaza-aid-fight-against-terror-on-menu-for-macron-s-christmas-visit-to-jordan

[pilotmike]

What sort of range would that have?
It looks like about a 4 or 5 metre drop to the ground.

[henra]

When you are doing it for real Henra, the time of testing and training has passed.
On an individual level (re the persons involved) for sure. On a national level there is still a difference. Better a failure (with subsequent learning) in a voluntary aid to another Country than trying it the first time defending your homeland.

[Lonewolf_50]

RAF fighter jets deployed to shoot down Iran drones, MoD says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68810774
Not sure why the RAF need to get dragged into it. Especially when Israel have not even had the decency to admit that they bombed the Iranian Consulate. BV Narrow PoV is again noted. Lack of objectivity also noted. (Also, UK has relationships with IraQ and Jordan, over whose airspace these missiles were flying).
According to the IDF it was 150 drones, 120 ballistic missiles and 30 cruise missiles. Thanks for that.
Israel didn't 'start this themselves', unless you mean by just existing (directed at BV's comment, which I can't now find).
Whatever Israel does, Iran will continue to attack via its Hamas, Hezbollah, and Houthi proxies, so either way it's certainly not over. The "axis of Resistance" has been around siince the early 80's, with Hezbollah being the poster child but not the only one. (And Hezbollah seems to have playing along the other night).

Good to hear about the Arleigh Burke Class intercepts. Glad that works. It took a lot of years of development, and a lot of money, to put that capability into practice.

For dead pan: spot on! :ok:
Both sides declaring victory, minimal damage & casualties, no reason to escalate surely? The Iranians were very clear about what they intended, warned folks what was coming, and then did their thing in retaliation for the attack on their consulate.
I suspect that, in the PR war, this went over very well in most places in the world (outside of the echo chamber that is PPRuNe and certain Western press outlets).

[Ohrly]

Strange how all this air defence by the West is exactly what Ukraine has been pleading for the last 3 years, with no effect.

Russia is launching from Russian air space into Ukrainian airspace. Iran has to launch over the airspace of other sovereign nations.

That is before we get onto the threat from Russian SAM and aerial assets. Where would there RAF aircraft be flying to protect Ukraine from incoming drones and missiles?

[hoodie]

Iranian drone stuck in power lines in Kurdish Iraq….
Turns out that video apparently pre-dates the attacks this week. https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/drone-stuck-in-power-line-is-not-from-irans-recent-attack-on-israel-fact-check#read-more

[Training Risky]

Is this finally the update we have been waiting for since 1948 to the question 'when was the last RAF AA kill in an RAF aeroplane'?? :)

[Lonewolf_50]

Saw a concise news release from Iran: (Roughly)
"As far as we are concerned, this operation is over. If the Zionist entity does something to Iran as a response, our next operation will be much larger"

Escalation isn't going to happen unless Israel chooses not to escalate. I wonder if that was the topic of conversation between Bibi and Biden this weekend.

[melmothtw]

Is this finally the update we have been waiting for since 1948 to the question 'when was the last RAF AA kill in an RAF aeroplane'?? :)

No, notwithstanding the intentions of the Jaguar that was downed by an RAF Phantom in 1982, that honour was taken by an RAF Typhoon over Syria in December 2021. Again, a drone.

[West Coast]

Define attack - when you are murdering people in the street in the UK using nerve agents by your intelligence services, that’s an attack as much as exploding a bomb.

Is this somehow related to the domino theory that Poland (or another NATO country) is next?

[melmothtw]

"As far as we are concerned, this operation is over. If the Zionist entity does something to Iran as a response, our next operation will be much larger"

But that doesn't actually mean that Iranian hostilities towards Israel will end, it just means they will go back to launching drones from Syria and encouraging Hezbollah and the Houthis to the do the same. But of course, that won't be escalation as only Israel escalates.

[Mogwi]

No, notwithstanding the intentions of the Jaguar that was downed by an RAF Phantom in 1982, that honour was taken by an RAF Typhoon over Syria in December 2021. Again, a drone.

Call me old fashioned but I really don’t think drones count. I understand the sincere wish to congratulate the sterling efforts of the chaps but what next, pigeons carrying NAAFI rations?

But then I am a bit biased.

Mog

[MPN11]

I heard something on a news feed about the PM calling the RAF chaps "heroes". How that word has been overused and debased in recent years! "He heroically shot down an unarmed drone." Or am I missing seething significant, like a sky full of metal heading for Israel?

[tdracer]

On an individual level (re the persons involved) for sure. On a national level there is still a difference. Better a failure (with subsequent learning) in a voluntary aid to another Country than trying it the first time defending your homeland.
Along that same line, when Patriot was first used in anger against Iraq, it didn't work very well against ballistic SCUD missiles (in spite of impressive looking TV footage).
We learned from that, and the current version of Patriot is far improved.

[tdracer]

I heard something on a news feed about the PM calling the RAF chaps "heroes". How that word has been overused and debased in recent years! "He heroically shot down an unarmed drone." Or am I missing seething significant, like a sky full of metal heading for Israel?
Did the RAF give 'kill' credits for those who intercepted V-1s headed for London - and would knocking down five make you an Ace?
BTW, intercepting those V-1s was rather hazardous - the 'wing flip' technique could easily damage your own aircraft, and if you fired at it and it detonated, you could easily get damaged by the shrapnel...

[MPN11]

I agree V-1 killing was a hazardous exercise! What did our folks use? “Too close for missiles, etc etc?”

[Yellow Sun]

Call me old fashioned but I really don’t think drones count. I understand the sincere wish to congratulate the sterling efforts of the chaps but what next, pigeons carrying NAAFI rations?

But then I am a bit biased.

Mog

Drones with a self defence capability or even armed escort drones may not be too far off. Not a bad idea to get a bit of practice in while you can!

YS

[melmothtw]

Drones with a self defence capability or even armed escort drones may not be too far off. Not a bad idea to get a bit of practice in while you can!

YS

Yes, it won't be too long before drones display some level of autonomy and self-awareness, and shooting them down won't be the risk free turkey shoot is currently is.

[MechEngr]

Along that same line, when Patriot was first used in anger against Iraq, it didn't work very well against ballistic SCUD missiles (in spite of impressive looking TV footage).
We learned from that, and the current version of Patriot is far improved.

AFAIK Patriot was bad against the Scuds because of two problems - the first was that different modules used different time-bases that differed in the number of bits assigned to their clocks. The second was that the Patriots were kept running far longer without a reboot than ever before. This meant that the two modules had increasingly different notions of time. One module did the calculation of when to shoot and passed that time to the other, the other looked at a different clock as the basis for when to initiate the launch. Had the Patriots been rebooted several times a day they would likely have hit the incoming scuds. As it was they were firing way off schedule, where "way off" was some seconds or fractions of seconds. I think they were running continuously for days.

See also the Ariane flight V88 had a similar design problem that led to the loss of the launch vehicle and several satellites. " The active module presented a diagnostic bit pattern to the On-Board Computer which was interpreted as flight data"

Edit to add why they were on line so long. In the anti-aircraft use, there would be long distance radar that would provide sufficient time to wake up the system and get it ready, but with missiles that time was reduced below what the system start took. I would be surprised if a reset would take as long as a startup, but they didn't know the source of the problem and thought it was because the missiles were too fast.

[NutLoose]

Thanks for that MechEngr, a fascinating insight.

[Lonewolf_50]

But that doesn't actually mean that Iranian hostilities towards Israel will end,
Completely agree.
They have been using the Axis of Resistance strat versus Israel since shortly after the Islamic Revolution of 1979. That low level harassment with the occasional outburst (From Hezbollah or someone else) is a simple fact of life. What I am sure Mr Biden would prefer is that things between Israel and Iran return to that state of play, rather than ratcheting up a notch or two.
{Clock differentials in spoiler}
AFAIK Patriot was bad against the Scuds because of two problems - the first was that different modules used different time-bases that differed in the number of bits assigned to their clocks. The second was that the Patriots were kept running far longer without a reboot than ever before. This meant that the two modules had increasingly different notions of time. One module did the calculation of when to shoot and passed that time to the other, the other looked at a different clock as the basis for when to initiate the launch. Had the Patriots been rebooted several times a day they would likely have hit the incoming scuds. As it was they were firing way off schedule, where "way off" was some seconds or fractions of seconds. I think they were running continuously for days.

See also the Ariane flight V88 had a similar design problem that led to the loss of the launch vehicle and several satellites. " The active module presented a diagnostic bit pattern to the On-Board Computer which was interpreted as flight data"

Edit to add why they were on line so long. In the anti-aircraft use, there would be long distance radar that would provide sufficient time to wake up the system and get it ready, but with missiles that time was reduced below what the system start took. I would be surprised if a reset would take as long as a startup, but they didn't know the source of the problem and thought it was because the missiles were too fast.




That sounds similar to what I recall from a debrief some ages ago; there were some other bits involved as well.
On the bright side, the less than awesome performance led to PAC Three development and other efforts at improvement.
I'll double check with an old Hawk and Patriot Battery commander I worked with years ago ... if he's still alive. Been years since I talked to him.

for albatross and Ralph: wrong thread guys. Let's not put Mod attractant up if we can help it, OK?

[albatross]

Sorry about that.
Which thread do you suggest I move it to?
In the meantime I shall delete my post here.
I don’t want to activate the “Mod Squad” they have a difficult task already.
Cheers
Albatross
Completely agree.
They have been using the Axis of Resistance strat versus Israel since shortly after the Islamic Revolution of 1979. That low level harassment with the occasional outburst (From Hezbollah or someone else) is a simple fact of life. What I am sure Mr Biden would prefer is that things between Israel and Iran return to that state of play, rather than ratcheting up a notch or two.

That sounds similar to what I recall from a debrief some ages ago; there were some other bits involved as well.
On the bright side, the less than awesome performance led to PAC Three development and other efforts at improvement.
I'll double check with an old Hawk and Patriot Battery commander I worked with years ago ... if he's still alive. Been years since I talked to him.

for albatross and Ralph: wrong thread guys. Let's not put Mod attractant up if we can help it, OK?

[T28B]

Albatross:
We have a bit of a scrum about Israel and Palestine here. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/657272-israel-palestine.html)

[admikar]

I dont think you quite understand that Ukraine ‘s resistance to illegal aggression by Russia, clearly an enemy of the west, is doing us. a great service. That in my view, makes Ukraine a great ally of the west.
​​​​​​…. and judging by their incredible fighting competence and spirit agains a numerically superior enemy, I believe they would be a great asset to NATO.
I wonder what constitutes legal aggression?
Don't you realise that defeat for Ukraine puts NATO allies like Poland and the Baltics next on Putin's list? So its not just to save Ukraine that Nato members should give all the aid they can: it's also to save themselves from a likely and more deadly situation.
Also I think we should be slow to criticise Ukrains about mobilisation: they have suffered enormous casualties, so easy to sit on the sidelines and yell.
Their mobilisation woes are quite a lot of their own doing. I can see a lot of military aged males driving expensive cars around the Adriatic. No wonder those with no expensive cars decline to play along.
This war (and the war in Ukraine) is coming to a head and people need to be careful which side they pick.
Do you ally yourself with Democracy or Dictatorship?
Choose wisely.
Idea that democracy is always good and that dictatorship is always wrong is naive at best. If you need an example, take a look at Iraq and consequences change of system brought.

[beardy]

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’


One of the great leaders who stood up to a fascist dictator - Churchill
​​​​​​​

[T28B]

Since the topic here is Iran, may we return to that please?
beardy, that's a well worn quote, but if you apply it to Iran's form of government how does it play out?
They are not a fascist dictatorship, but rather something else. ;)

[beardy]

Since the topic here is Iran, may we return to that please?
beardy, that's a well worn quote, but if you apply it to Iran's form of government how does it play out?
They are not a fascist dictatorship, but rather something else. ;)
It may be a well worn quote but it is worth repeating.
Iran is a theocracy, other states have tried the theocratic route and have failed (apart from maybe the Vatican City). The point about standing up to a dictator is there to bring credibility to the speaker in his defence of democracy, not to compare to the powers of head of the Iranian state who speaks not for himself, but for his deity.

[admikar]

It seems neither side will back down. Israel said they will retaliate, Iran said they will re-retaliate, only this time it will be a lot faster response.
If it was not for Ukraine, I would vote for world's collective beat down of both sides.

[Lonewolf_50]

I wonder if said deity is occasionally quoted out of context. Happens a lot in the information age. :}:E

Back to Iran:
Not a good story that hit my feed today:
On Monday, Israel's military chief Lieutenant General Herzi Halevi said the recent Iranian drone attacks "will be met with a response," the Associated Press reported. Halevi did not provide any further details on a possible response but noted that Israel is still considering a number of different plans.
This would be a great time for my country's President to tell Bibi:
"If you do this, you are on your own."
Since Iran has been very public about "OK, we made our point, as far as we are concerned this operation is over" a "response to their response" will be easily spun as escalation.
On the other hand, the technical curiosity I have about the following Aviation scenario does intrigue me:Can Israel manage to slip a few F-35's across the Iranian border, blow up something in Iran (a missile site perhaps) and then slip home unnoticed?
This is a bit harder than the stunt they pulled 40+ years ago on the nuclear reactor site in Iraq.
Both Jordan and Iraq, or for sure Syria, have to be overlown for a lot of miles to mange such a "get in get out" raid.
May be too hard.
Also, it risks Iranian air defense scoring a kill if the IAF don't get it right.
Personally, I hope they don't do that, too many things can go wrong...but they do have previous form.
And I suspect that Iran is trying to prepare for such an attempt.
how stealthy is stealth?

[admikar]

How strong is Zionist lobby in US?
Besides, Israel already showed they don't listen to anyone else and defending Israel during first strike makes it all the harder to justify turn around.

[SASless]

Turning the other cheek is not a plan that works when the other side insists upon repeatedly slapping you in the your chops.

They stop when they get their hind end properly kicked and realize there is a bitter cost to such misconduct.

The Iranians kicked over their can of hi-tech Whoop Ass and it is fitting some of it gets splashed on them.

Let's see the IDF show its stuff and play Whack-A-Mole with Quds leadership and their Hezbollah pals.

Every time one of the top tier leadership can be found, fixed, and removed.....all the better.

No big massive retaliation effort that leads to losses....play it smart and safe and explain in basic terms the risks the Iranian leadership assumes when it leaves Iran.

At the same time....demonstate to Hezbollah and sundry associated groups associating with Iranians is very bad Karma.

If it is the leadership whose heads are for the chop....rather than the rank-and-file.....that ups the ante and forces Iran and Hezbollah to retihink their strategy.

No good playing nice with those that have no intention of playing nice.

The Iranians screwed the Pooch.....and now they are sweating bullets worrying about what is coming in return......that is a very good thing.

[Lonewolf_50]

China has Iran's back.
(Bloomberg) -- China’s top diplomat told Iran that the nations can work together across a range of areas in the future, signaling their ties remain solid following Tehran’s unprecedented attack on Israel.

“China is ready to steadily advance practical cooperation in various fields with Iran and promote greater development of China-Iran relations,” Foreign Minister Wang Yi told Iranian counterpart Hossein Amirabdollahian in a phone call on Monday.

Wang also said China noted Iran’s position that its military action was “limited” and the country was “exercising its right of self-defense,” according to a statement from the Foreign Ministry in Beijing. China also believed Iran could handle the situation to “avoid further turbulence,” he said.

Wang’s comments offer Iran a measure of diplomatic support after its missile and drone attack (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-13/israel-says-it-s-under-attack-by-iranian-drones-as-risk-surges) on Israel sparked worries of a broader conflict. Tehran said the move was retaliation for an attack (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-02/iran-says-sent-us-message-over-deadly-israeli-strike-on-compound) on its embassy compound in Syria that killed top Iranian military officers. This was the first time Iran has struck Israel from its soil. Wasn't Wang Rodney Dangerfield's playing partner in Caddyshack?

If it is the leadership whose heads are for the chop....rather than the rank-and-file.....that ups the ante and forces Iran and Hezbollah to retihink their strategy.

No good playing nice with those that have no intention of playing nice. Seems a viable strategy.

[albatross]

Albatross:
We have a bit of a scrum about Israel and Palestine here. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/657272-israel-palestine.html)

Thanks, posted my rant there.
Cheers

[DogTailRed2]

Iran will eventually get nuclear weapons changing the dynamic some what. So do we attack them now removing that possibility or kick the can down the road until it happens and then worry about it then?
Religious extremism want's the West annihilated. Just a matter of time. Lets hope atheism, common sense and democracy prevail. Nah. me neither.....

[Lonewolf_50]

Kicking the can down the road is a very common political choice.
Expect that.

[MechEngr]

Religious extremism wants control of their followers and they cannot keep that control without an external threat. Usually it is just some vague reference to unbelievers or some unsubstantiated evil, but that won't support a military budget.

Iran's leadership depends on the existence of the West to provide the visible danger they claim to shield their followers from. As can be seen from the situation, they are also playing the Sunni Muslims vs the Shia Muslims. They just need something to rage against.

[Raph737]

Talking about some military aspects since it’s the military forum. Thinking about a few articles I read that debunked this idea that it was a great victory for israel and the west, with the notion that this was about a message to the neighbours and international community but most importantly, to domestic audiences. The aspect I’d like some views is that, Israel needed five countries to neutralise a large number of these devices, it couldn’t have possibly done on their own, to me is like going to the pub, punching a random only because five or your MMA trained mates are behind you and jump into your defence. The drones they used have a market value of $20K USD per pop, whilst one air-to-air AIM 120 for example, costs $1.37million per head. Then there’s the $200k iron dome missiles and any other expensive machinery used to deter the attack, fuel costs etc. They did it, but it cost them, and us, a fortune. For the Iranians it was cheap and the message was delivered.
I don’t know about you but I don't sing victory and play the big man when I needed a coalition to defend myself from a mess I started it.

Military victory? Well, if you look at the fact that the attack was deterred then yes. But Iran just needed one to hit the target…and it did, hence it was designed to spread the defence open with large numbers from different directions. Also, their propaganda is going overdrive saying that the Israelis were so weak that Uncle Sam, Brits and french had to save them…not a lie is it now?
As far as propaganda, they won. I can refer you to a good article on this, I have doubts about what the media is trying to convince us about right now.

[T28B]

Religious extremism wants control of their followers and they cannot keep that control without an external threat. Indeed. The proclamation of the United States as The Great Satan was part of the message sent during the Islamic Revolution. In broader terms, however, it isn't just religious extremists who use that.

A number of posters on this sub-forum participated in the 1982 Falklands War. A contributing factor to that war even coming to pass was the perceived need by the regime in Buenos Aires to focus discontent on some external threat or source of frustration.

Returning to the topic of this thread and your observation:
Not long after Iranian state TV informed the nation that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had launched hundreds of drones and missiles, people poured into the streets in Tehran and other cities to show their support for Iran's first-ever direct military action against Israel. Iran had vowed to retaliate for the killing of seven IRGC officers about two weeks earlier, in an airstrike that hit an Iranian consulate in Syria's capital.
One might argue that the leadership in Tehran had a core audience for the missile and drone launches: the home audience.

[DogTailRed2]

Depends how you quantify victory. It's a victory for Israel that it can say the west is still it's ally and will support it. It's a victory for the west that we did support Israel. Of course we only hit the little guy. Why is the west not providing similar support to Ukraine?
I smell hypocrisy,

[waito]

Have you read the comparison between "Firepower" of Israel and Iran? While it's not the full story and doesn't give a final result how strong both alliances really are (conventionally), Iran is not the "little guy". Unfortunately.
​​​​​​
If it escalates, it requires tough ressources to overcome Irans regime, with as many of the worlds nations for rejecting US/UK imperialism claims from Arab community. Then this opens doors for Russia, China, NK, well well.

[Raph737]

Depends how you quantify victory. It's a victory for Israel that it can say the west is still it's ally and will support it. It's a victory for the west that we did support Israel. Of course we only hit the little guy. Why is the west not providing similar support to Ukraine?
I smell hypocrisy,

I hear you, the little guy was on its own and Israel needed help. It’s that “emasculating” idea that is being spoken about it there and I bet is eating Netanyahu inside.

I doubt there would be a coalition help if overnight they decided to send 300+ aerial devices to Jordan, UAE, Egypt. The ones with real muscle are the Saudis but I think the neighbours will think twice and will seek guarantees of protection from us before supporting Israel again. Like you mentioned, we left Ukraine hanging, we won’t care for these people too. I am taking a deeper view that this actually made Israel look weak alongside the fact that Hamas did enter their territory, armed with paragliders and machine guns and caused damage. What would have been if there wasn’t warming from Iran? To me, it was never designed for damage but for a symbolic message, that they STILL can’t stand on their own and are weak warmongers.
Ukraine? I have the feeling that Trump will let them rot I’m afraid, I cant see Biden win it as he is losing the educated youth vote over Gaza, losing demographics such as white men over 30’s and latinos. Trump is ahead last time I checked. Militarily speaking, because we are told to stick to topic, we already release resources to Ukraine and we are not addressing issues such as lack fo training capacity in the RAF and pilot recruitment. We don’t have enough jets either and with the world in turmoil, we are spending a ton of money to defend Israel and we are vulnerable right here at home to threats from Russia. It’s time they defend themselves alone, start stuff? Make sure you can finish it first.

[Raph737]

Have you read the comparison between "Firepower" of Israel and Iran? While it's not the full story and doesn't give a final result how strong both alliances really are (conventionally), Iran is not the "little guy". Unfortunately.
​​​​​​
If it escalates, it requires tough ressources to overcome Irans regime, with as many of the worlds nations for rejecting US/UK imperialism claims from Arab community. Then this opens doors for Russia, China, NK, well well.

I Agree, still think we should neutralise them by starving them of resources and giving incentives to those who buy their resources not to. Diplomacy is better than war, sanctions aplenty.

I stand accused of bashing Israel but I only stated what’s been widely discussed and NOBODY is immune from criticism. Unfortunately they have been preparing for this day for a long time, we should ignore them. And focus on sorting Gaza out, countering the attack will drag us to something we don’t need right now.

[Lonewolf_50]

Have you read the comparison between "Firepower" of Israel and Iran?
While it's not the full story and doesn't give a final result how strong both alliances really are (conventionally), Iran is not the "little guy". They are a medium sized power and are for sure a significant regional power in the Middle East.
Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi said Saturday’s attack was a limited one but that "nothing would remain from the Zionist regime," should it escalate the current situation, the official IRNA news agency reported...{he} spoke during an Army Day parade at a military base in northern Tehran, Iran, Wednesday, April 17, 2024... warned that the "tiniest invasion" by Israel would bring a "massive and harsh" response.
{source} ~AP Newsroom~ The war of words continues to heat up.
Many years, arguments were brought forward "but Iran has never started an attack or war on another country". Read it in arguments re nuclear program, that Iran just supports the Palestinian Underdogd, just want to defend against the imperialist west. That illusion has come to an end! Iran is an aggressor, using official, conventional military attack on a different country. They are no less evil than any other aggressor starting a war. Iran is a part of the new, multipolar world of the Post Cold War era. They are active in improving their military capabilities, and at present are making a good Dinar or two selling drones and missiles to Russia.
Due (in part) to the dysfunction at the UNSC for the past generation, plenty of countries are pushing at previous boundaries and seeing how far they can go.

While you assess things through your lens as "the illusion has come to an end" (I was never under that illusion, but I can see your point on the rhetoric/information war bit) a substantial number of nations will see Iran's latest actions through a different lens as "sticking it to the man." ... and they will applaud that move.

When Iran's nuclear capability comes on line, which I am sure will happen, they will announce it and hammer yet another nail into the NPT's coffin.

[T28B]

You are all welcome for the janitorial service.

[rattman]

Looks like Israeli strikes are starting. Attacks reported in Iran, Iraq and Syria. Videos on telegram claiming to be from Qahjaverestan were there is a nuclear research site

[Lonewolf_50]

Well ****.
Just got back from a poker game.
Israelis shot missiles, at Isfahan (https://madrastribune.com/2024/04/19/israel-strikes-on-isfahan-metropolis-reported/?ad=dirN&debug=0&prod=Secure&cmpgn=29308&locale=en_US&annot=false&sameTabLaunch=false&installSource=direct&ctype=web&browser=Secure&darkMode=false&track=T3&ueid=c47162ae-b091-4a54-8d1f-48a3430505bc&doi=2023-11-01) and maybe somewhere else.
Bibi: you ******* prick.
Joe Biden: You can't seem to tell him no, you ****.
:mad:
This is not going to end well. :uhoh:
Iran then suspended flights over a number of cities. “Flights over Isfahan, Shiraz and Tehran cities have been suspended,” state media reported. Iranian state tv started a scrolling, on-screen alert acknowledging a “loud noise” close to Isfahan, with out instantly elaborating.

[rattman]

So it appears like the strike was on the airfield where the F-14's are housed. (you can see them on google maps) its relatively close the nuclear site but the actual site was undamaged.

This looks like it was a bit a warning and a possible offramp as iran is saying there wasn't any attack

[Lonewolf_50]

Did I wander into Jet Blast by mistake?

Perhaps waiting for some at least remotely accurate information before pitching your tantrums might be beneficial.

Rattman at least offered something useful. OK, how is this not useful? It was pretty fresh info, and detail was scarce at the time.
Israelis shot missiles, at Isfahan (https://madrastribune.com/2024/04/19/israel-strikes-on-isfahan-metropolis-reported/?ad=dirN&debug=0&prod=Secure&cmpgn=29308&locale=en_US&annot=false&sameTabLaunch=false&installSource=direct&ctype=web&browser=Secure&darkMode=false&track=T3&ueid=c47162ae-b091-4a54-8d1f-48a3430505bc&doi=2023-11-01) and maybe somewhere else.

Iran then suspended flights over a number of cities. “Flights over Isfahan, Shiraz and Tehran cities have been suspended,” state media reported. Iranian state tv started a scrolling, on-screen alert acknowledging a “loud noise” close to Isfahan, with out instantly elaborating.


EDIT: slight update.
Source is Newsweek.
Iran and its Lebanese Hezbollah partners appear to be dismissing the significance of Israel's reported overnight strike on targets (https://www.newsweek.com/israels-attack-iraneverything-we-know-1892043) inside the country, as the world again waits to see if the regional tit-for-tat attacks escalate into a broader and more destructive showdown."Iran does not need anyone to defend it; her capabilities are strong," a source close to the Tehran-aligned militia—who requested anonymity as they were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter—told Newsweek on Friday morning, as reports emerged of multiple Israeli strikes in Syria, Iraq, and Iran.

When pressed as to whether Hezbollah would join any retaliation by Iran (https://www.newsweek.com/we-must-act-now-prevent-next-attack-iran-opinion-1891966)—as its leaders have repeatedly threatened to do—the source responded: "Has Israel really done anything? We didn't feel it at all."

Tehran appears to be downplaying the significance of the reported attack, according to Reuters. "The foreign source of the incident has not been confirmed," an unnamed senior Iranian official told the agency. "We have not received any external attack, and the discussion leans more towards infiltration than attack." Iran will bide their time.

[SASless]

This article contains a summary of various media, government, and other information about the strikes and the reaction to it from various sources.

Still early yet to do a reliable assessment using public domain sources alone....as Intelligence assets and governments are bound to know more that has not been made public.

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2024/04/19/iran-says-nuclear-sites-completely-safe-reports-no-damage-after-suspected-israeli-strikes/

[Lonewolf_50]

Got it. Something went bump in the night, and details may or may not follow.
EDIT:
It appears that things are simmering down ...
Israel conducted a strike in Iran (https://www.axios.com/world/iran) early Friday morning local time, a senior U.S. official told Axios.

==snip==

The latest: Fars news agency, which is affiliated with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), reported explosions were heard in the city of Isfahan in central Iran near an Iranian air force base.


Iranian state TV reported several drones were shot down by air defenses in Isfahan.
Iran issued a notification early Friday morning local time closing the air space over western parts of the country.
Iranian state news agency IRNA reports Iranian air defense systems were activated tonight in several places in the country.

Zoom in: The International Atomic Energy Agency, the UN's nuclear watchdog, said (https://twitter.com/iaeaorg/status/1781196309329793463) early Friday morning that there was "no damage to Iran's nuclear sites." Isfahan is home to nuclear facilities.

[ORAC]

The question you have to ask is why take out the SAM site unless you intend to pay a visit…..

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1781437425597702621?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Last night’s Israeli Strike appears to have Struck a S-300PMU2 Surface-to-Air Missile Battery and Radar Site near the Natanz Nuclear Facility in the Isfahan Province of Iran.

A 30N6E “Flap Lid” Engagement Radar and possibly a 96L6E “Cheese Board” Acquisition Radar appear to have both suffered Significant Damaged, with the remainder of the Battery being Withdrawn.

https://x.com/donklericuzio/status/1781295117669642600?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


​​​​​​​Iraqi officials inspect Israeli missile debris found in Iraq: Rafael's ROCKS air-launched ballistic missile, likely fired from Israeli F-16I Sufa strike fighters.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1177x1628/image_1aa6dbe13a31f015c7eda16b42c337a01a606fcf.png
​​​​​​​

[Lonewolf_50]

Iran Unveils New Weapon Capable of Taking Out America's Stealth Jets (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/iran-unveils-new-weapon-capable-of-taking-out-america-s-stealth-jets/ar-AA1nt0ht)
(newsweek)

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1nsKjU.img?w=768&h=512&m=6&x=740&y=516&s=41&d=41A long-range, mobile air defense system Bavar-373 system is seen in the background as Iranian officials talk to one another in Tehran, Iran, on August 21, 2016. Iran showcased a new iteration of the Bavar-373 in a military parade last week.
© Photo by Pool / Iran Presidency/Anadolu Agency/GETTY IMAGESIran recently introduced a new, enhanced version of its Bavar-373 long-range air defense system that Tehran officials claim can intercept American stealth jet fighters. They probably can, if the weapons are all externally carried...
The domestically produced Bavar-373 first went into service for the Iranian armed forces in 2019, and its capabilities have drawn comparisons to Russia's S-300 mobile, long-range surface-to-air missile systems and to the U.S.-made Patriot systems.

Iran unveiled the newest iteration of the Bavar-373 during an April 17 military parade. The weapon's debut comes as tensions between Iran and Israel continue after Tehran responded to an alleged Israeli strike on an Iranian embassy in Syria by launching drones and missiles toward Israel on April 13 in an attack that was mostly thwarted. Well, that's air defense sorted, nothing to worry about then. :}

[SASless]

Or.....did we see a practical demonstration a few nights ago that put paid to those claims when some missile sites got whacked with no report of any attacking aircraft being downed?

[SWBKCB]

The question you have to ask is why take out the SAM site unless you intend to pay a visit…..

​​​​​​​

To show that you can, when ever you want.

[Lonewolf_50]

Which is what the Houthi's aka Iran's little yapping dog just did again.
Yemen’s Iran-aligned Houthi armed group says it attacked US and Israeli vessels, with a Western coalition of warships defending amid the continuing fallout from the war on Gaza. Yahya Saree, the group’s military spokesman, said in a video address late on Wednesday that the Houthis hit the Maersk Yorktown cargo ship in the Gulf of Aden.The US military confirmed that the Houthis launched an antiship ballistic missile from their territory towards the vessel, which it identified as a “US-flagged, owned, and operated vessel with 18 US and four Greek crew members”.

“There were no injuries or damage reported by US, coalition, or commercial ships,” the US Central Command (CENTCOM) said in a statement.

The Greek Ministry of National Defence said on Thursday that one of the country’s military ships serving in the European Union’s naval mission to counter the Houthis in the Red Sea (https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/mapping-red-sea-shipping-attacks/) intercepted two drones launched towards a commercial ship from Yemen. The United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations (UKMTO) had earlier confirmed an incident some 72 nautical miles (133km) southeast of the port of Djibouti in the Gulf of Aden.

Saree said the group targeted the Israeli ship MSC Veracruz in the Indian Ocean and launched projectiles at a US warship. The US military said within two hours of the attack on the Maersk Yorktown, its forces “successfully engaged and destroyed” four drones over Yemen. “These actions are taken to protect freedom of navigation and make international waters safer and more secure for US, coalition, and merchant vessels,” it said.

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-shoots-down-houthi-missile-in-first-for-navy-since-gulf-war-5tnmj9hv6).

A Royal Navy destroyer has shot down a ballistic missile fired by the Iran-backed Houthi rebel group for the first time.

HMS Diamond was defending a merchant vessel in the Gulf of Aden on Wednesday when it used its Sea Viper missile system to destroy the Iranian-made weapon, which was fired from Yemen.

Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, said it was the first time a Royal Navy warship had intercepted a missile in combat since the Gulf War in 1991. It is the first time the navy has shot down a ballistic missile in combat.

Shapps said: “A commercial ship came under attack by a missile and HMS Diamond shot down that missile using Sea Viper.”

He said the attack demonstrated how dangerous the world was becoming and how non-state actors were now being supplied with “very sophisticated weapons” from states such as Iran. “That gives an indication of a changed world and why the 2.5 per cent is so vital,” he said, referring to Rishi Sunak’s commitment to spend billions of pounds more on defence by 2030 (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/will-a-turnaround-on-defence-spending-get-rishi-sunak-out-of-a-hole-qcszmchlz).

Although it has not been confirmed which missile the Houthis used, it is understood the group has been firing Iranian-made Fateh missiles at vessels in the Red Sea. These include missiles from the Fateh-110 family of short-range ballistic weapons.Also included is the Zolfaghar, a road-mobile missile capable of striking targets at a distance of between 300 and 700 km (186 and 435 miles), according to experts. Some of the Fateh missiles have anti-ship capabilities.

The Houthis announced on Wednesday that they had targeted the Maersk Yorktown ship and an American destroyer in the Gulf of Aden.

HMS Diamond is presently deployed in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden to deter Houthi attacks (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-alarm-sounded-hms-diamond-was-under-houthi-attack-vjsptwkkd) and help protect commercial vessels, which have come under increasing attack since the Israel-Hamas war began in October last year.

The ship took over from HMS Richmond in March. During its deployment HMS Richmond successfully repelled a Houthi drone attack in the southern Red Sea, shooting down two attack drones using Sea Ceptor missiles.

Beforehand HMS Diamond was in the region and came under under fire in three separate attacks by Houthi rebels, destroying nine drones using the world-class Sea Viper missile system and guns.

HMS Diamond is equipped with the Sea Viper system, which employs the Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles, known for their precision and long-range capabilities. The ship also has Phalanx machineguns and 30mm cannons on each side of the ship. The Phalanx can fire more than 3,000 rounds a minute. The crew have also used the 30mm cannon to shoot down a Houthi drone.

According to the US Maritime Administration, the Houthis have launched more than 50 attacks on shipping, seized one vessel and sank another since November, which they say are in support of the Palestinians.

Attacks on commercial vessels have become less common since the rebels were targeted by a US-led airstrike on targets in Yemen.

[Lonewolf_50]

Not sure what aviation assets may or may not be in Jordan, but ... Jordan has foiled a suspected Iranian-led (https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/article-739165) plot to smuggle weapons into the US-allied kingdom to help opponents of the ruling monarchy carry out acts of sabotage, according to two Jordanian sources with knowledge of the matter.

The weapons were sent by Iranian-backed militias in Syria to a cell of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan that has links to the military wing of the Palestinian terror group Hamas, the people told Reuters. The cache was seized when members of the cell, Jordanians of Palestinian descent, were arrested in late March, they said. (source = Jerusalem Post, check with other sources if you find them to be sketchy)

[DogTailRed2]

Iran helicopter crash latest: President Ebrahim Raisi aircraft in 'hard landing' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-69035051)

[T28B]

A summary of points made in that article




A helicopter carrying Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi and Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian has been involved in an accident, state media reports
Reports say the helicopter - one of three travelling in a convoy - made a "hard landing" after it got into difficulties in heavy fog in the north of the country
Interior Minister Ahmad Vahidi said rescuers were still trying to reach the site due to the difficult weather conditions
Raisi was heading to the city of Tabriz, in the north west of Iran, after returning from an Iran-Azerbaijan border area, according to local media

Which countries have offered help?

Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Iraq have offered to assist rescue efforts to find the helicopter
Russia also offered assistance with the investigation into the cause of the crash
The United Arab Emirates has also offered support and says it stands by Iran
Turkey sent a mountain rescue team to Iran, and earlier, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said he was saddened by the accident,
Writing in a post on X (https://x.com/RTErdogan/status/1792252450927251931), Erdogan said: "I hope to receive good news from Raisi and his delegation as soon as possible"
US President Joe Biden has been briefed on the incident, according to a White House spokesperson
And Antonio Guterres, UN Secretary General, is following updates on the crash. "He hopes for the safety of the president and his entourage," a UN spokesperson said in a statement

[West Coast]

A summary of points made in that article

Missed one.

- Ukraine volunteers to shoot down the other two helicopters.

[NutLoose]

Reported as brown bread on Jetblast.

[albatross]

CFIT probably.

https://youtu.be/h23I3HruqVM?si=OOfd8UpSsEYWMLS-

[Lonewolf_50]

Missed one.

- Ukraine volunteers to shoot down the other two helicopters. Payback for the Ukrainian airliner shot down in Tehran, or for more recent reasons?

[Ninthace]

In fog? In the mountains?

[Lonewolf_50]

I take it that you didn't get the joke, Ninthace? I got it. Maybe it's the Yank sense of humor that went past you.
- Ukraine volunteers to shoot down the other two helicopters.

[Ninthace]

No I was playing along - it's a British thing.

[langleybaston]

No I was playing along - it's a British thing.
good shot sir!

[Copter Appreciator00]

Wikipedia says the copter carrying the Iranian president and his team was a Bell 212. It was likely an airframe sold to Iran in the late 70s when relations were solid between the US and Iran, when they bought dozens of F-14s, F-4 phantoms, and Bell models, like the AH-1J, 205, 212, 206, 214.
That all ended in 1979, so no new airframes could have been sold to Iran after then, so this Bell 212 that went down would have been say, built in 1976-78; that's reasonable. It would have been at least 47-49 years old. My question is:
1) Why was the Iranian PRESIDENT riding in such an old helicopter in 2024? Wouldn't old Bell 212s, 205s be used for military or civil missions for less important figures?

[Lonewolf_50]

Copter, suggest you check out the thread discussing this on Rotor Heads.
The line being taken in that discussion is "Augusta Bell" but that info may be an estimate rather than a hard "I know it" bit.

[Lordflasheart]

...
1) Why was the Iranian PRESIDENT riding in such an old helicopter ?

Because 'Marine One' doesn't translate well into Persian.

In the same way as 'Air Force One' doesn't translate well into Mandarin.

LFH :E

[Jack D]

Let’s be fair it couldn’t happen to a nicer group of guys !

[Lonewolf_50]

They'll have another president in a couple of months. (From reading the news, looks like the way it works is that the VP will stand in for about two months as another election gets put together).

[BBadanov]

Wikipedia says the copter carrying the Iranian president and his team was a Bell 212. It was likely an airframe sold to Iran in the late 70s when relations were solid between the US and Iran, when they bought dozens of F-14s, F-4 phantoms, and Bell models, like the AH-1J, 205, 212, 206, 214.
That all ended in 1979, so no new airframes could have been sold to Iran after then, so this Bell 212 that went down would have been say, built in 1976-78; that's reasonable. It would have been at least 47-49 years old. My question is:
1) Why was the Iranian PRESIDENT riding in such an old helicopter in 2024? Wouldn't old Bell 212s, 205s be used for military or civil missions for less important figures?

Looking at TV coverage of the cabin interior, I thought it was a Bell 214, poss even the VIP variant the 214ST. So yes, old.

[West Coast]

Payback for the Ukrainian airliner shot down in Tehran, or for more recent reasons?

For every Iranian weapon that enters Ukraine.