IATA concerned about increase in problem passengers

[rotornut]

?We?re having to be bouncers?: More problem passengers flying, industry says - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/were-having-to-be-bouncers-more-problem-passengers-flying-industry-says/article32098592/)

[ExXB]

So when they say. Alcohol or drug intoxication was identified in 23 per cent of cases, but the “vast majority” of these instances involved the consumption of alcohol or drugs before boarding or from “personal supply without knowledge of the crew.”

Are they talking about the vast majority of 23%, or the vast majority of all cases?

So what's the other 77% then?

[Piltdown Man]

As an organisation we have suffered from only a few disruptive passengers. They vary from drunks in the cheap seats to bolshy individuals in the front. Alchohol has been a factor in most of the cases and the very worst are groups who have had too much. The remainder were "difficult" people, the sort who will not take no for an answer, especially from a girl. Others had personal problems and one or two had psychological problems. And the rest, who knows.

The strangest thing is that when (if) the troublesome muppets face the authorities, rarely they do they think they have done anything wrong. They think you are over-reacting and they tell you that they were only having a bit of fun. And I can see why. Over the past few years we have put with this type of behaviour. Only when it is made totally clear such behaviour is not acceptable will things change. And that will take at least one generation to fix. Until then, my company will bounce these people off in ones and twos and the charter/LoCos will chuck them off in 10s and 20s.

Solutions: The threat of fines and imprisonment appear not to work. So something else is required. A good start would be a mandatory fine and imprisonment. Then full recovery of costs. Then a permanent passport ban would top it off nicely. For foreign nationals a lifetime exclusion would be imposed when they leave prison.

Not very progressive or left-wing I know, but their methods have been shown to be useless.

[ZFT]

It might help if carriers started life bans for these idiots. Pooling of information would prevent them repeating on other carriers.

[Hotel Tango]

Piltdown Man, I'm not convinced that your solution would work either. Most of these offenders come to terms with what plonkers they were once sobered up. Punishment after the event is not preventative with the exception maybe of that particular person. The greatest problem is people simply not knowing to what extent drink will affect them. If they're in a group some will find themselves drinking well in excess simply trying to keep up with their less affected peers. Once they've crossed the line they are no longer aware of what they're doing or saying. The solution is not punishment but education and thus prevention. Yes, I agree, easier said than done.

[Fire and brimstone]

I am not sure IATA are correct - what do they base this claim on?

I've seen assorted press releases by the media trying to stir this up into an industry wide issue. Almost every time the airlines say that it is a small - even rare - event.

I am absolutely certain airline staff are encouraged to report bad passengers (drunk / abuse / violence) back to the company. Based on so little information, as these incidents are rare, how can this claim be made.

Lets be honest: there is no serious problem with lots and lots of drunk or abusive air passengers, so there must be some other agenda.

Someone said above that these 'idiots' should be banned.

How can an airline ban someone when the problem does not really exist?!!

[SMT Member]

The problem is, in 99 out of 100 cases, alcohol. Some people just can't handle it and, I'm sorry to say, but the LCC world of today has brought some less desirables into the cabin, who wouldn't have had the opportunity before. It is, as good as always, males in the age 18-50, who've had a drink or two before leaving home, then a couple more in the bar and a swig off the something in the plastic bag on the way out to the gate.

This is where my staff meet them, and they've got a very, very difficult job on their hands. We hire and train them for their friendly and serviceminded personality, whilst trying to dress them up for the odd idiot passing their way. But it's service and friendly we're mostly looking for, the exact same thing psychopaths are looking for in a victim. And, yes, we do have to serve psychopaths; no booking machine are yet to ask 'are you a complete moron or suffering from any disturbing psychological trauma?'

We do our best to keep them off the aircraft, sometime to the physical or verbal detriment of our staff. It is, you understand, entirely their fault the aircraft left on-time and you didn't make it, because there were Jägerbombs on sale in the bar. We see the worst kind of verbal abuse, and on very rare occasions also violence. It must be a big man indeed, punching a 60kg, 160cm, girl out because she was doing her job.

We've also had our female staff stalked, including one particularly nasty person sneaking up on her back as she was walking down the pier, promising to do the nastiest of things to her, attempting to grab and chasing her into a toilet where he stood outside and basically promised to rape and kill her. That girl, by the way, is still receiving psychological help and is unlikely to return to work. Because a drunken passenger couldn't behave himself and threatened other passengers in the departure lounge, upon which he was denied boarding.

How to stop it? Only by making the rest of us 'suffer' for the actions of a, relative, few: By banning the sale and consumption of alcohol in airports and onboard commercial aircraft. It was possible with smoking, surely it's possible with alcohol as well.

As for duty-free booze: Can only be bought on arrival and never brought onboard an aircraft as carry-on.

[aterpster]

SMT Member:

How to stop it? Only by making the rest of us 'suffer' for the actions of a, relative, few: By banning the sale and consumption of alcohol in airports and onboard commercial aircraft. It was possible with smoking, surely it's possible with alcohol as well.

In the case of smoking the issue was second hand smoke, not disruptive passengers. That ban came in stages: first, the smoking and non-smoking sections, followed a few years later by a total ban.

Alcohol normally does not affect other passengers either medically or otherwise. The airlines, at least as a group, will not ban alcoholic beverages. It simply won't happen.

[wiggy]

It simply won't happen.

Just imaging the scene on first Long Haul airline to do it makes me wince......I guess would be fine for a hour or two and then ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvDCx-ILhk

[maxred]

I've seen assorted press releases by the media trying to stir this up into an industry wide issue. Almost every time the airlines say that it is a small - even rare - event.

I won't bore you with the detail, but I, and my fellow pax, endured a hen party going berserk at 36000 feet. EZY. Malaga to Glasgow. Emergency descent into Brest, at 10.30 at night. June this year. three carted off, eventually, by firemen and police. Not reported, as are a huge number of these incidents. A number of kids on the flight witnessing - One of our customers has taken unwell with a medical problem......-. It was truly disgraceful. You place the great unwashed into an aeroplane, get them drunk pre flight in the shopping malls, and what do you expect. This lot cannot behave out in the street on a Friday night, let alone travel....sorry. This is an ever growing issue, and it is NOT the airlines fault.

[SMT Member]

Alcohol normally does not affect other passengers either medically or otherwise

Don't know about you, but getting knocked out or requiring psychological help would certainly qualify as having been affected in my book, medically and otherwise.

The airlines, at least as a group, will not ban alcoholic beverages. It simply won't happen.

The airlines, as a group, will do whatever their regulator tells them to do. Just like some airlines were never going to voluntarily ban smoking, but regulations eventually made them.

[aterpster]

SMT Member:

Don't know about you, but getting knocked out or requiring psychological help would certainly qualify as having been affected in my book, medically and otherwise.

That's exactly why I said "normally."

[SWBKCB]

SMT Member has it right - remove alcohol from airports and aircraft. It's only there to subsidise airlines (and their passengers) who aren't prepared to pay "the going rate".

It has no place in safety conscious environment - and don't forget, "the safety of our passengers is our first priority". :ugh:

[bullfox]

Since increased altitude increases the effects of alcohol consumption I wonder if the pressure altitude inside modern airliners is different from previous generations of airliners?

[Noxegon]

I've been enjoying a glass of wine when I fly for almost two decades. I'd hate to see that privilege taken away because some people can't control themselves.

[45989]

Dear oh Dear what's new here. Knackers and drink..........

[Jorge Newberry]

I was on a Ryanair flight recently during which this guy (about 25) spent most of his time doing some kind of mad dance in the aisle punctuated by the occasional bit of loud "singing". He also hammered on the toilet door a couple of times "for a laugh". The FAs sidled past him and asked him to move aside for the trolley when they needed to pass him, and he complied readily enough, apart from that they and everyone else completely ignored him. Lunatic behavior completely normalised.

[Local Variation]

.......eventually he calmed down, stopped dancing and returned to the flightdeck.

Seriously though, an airport must be the only place you can get served a pint or two at 6am in the morning. And there in lies the problem.

[Chronus]

"Alcohol normally does not affect other passengers either medically or otherwise. The airlines, at least as a group, will not ban alcoholic beverages. It simply won't happen."
So says Aterpster.
What if the inebriated Mr. ,Ms.or Mrs. attacks another passenger who ends up requiring hospital treatment. Would that not be classified as "affecting medically". What if the sozzled vomiting all over another passenger, would that not be classified as "no effect otherwise". Is it normal or abnormal for alcohol not to have an effect. I would say it would be abnormal for it not to have an effect. Some who have an enormous tolerance to its effects would just consume vast quantities to achieve its effects. Until of course they attain the ultimate goal of alcoholism.
Airlines will not ban alcohol, it will not happen ! Are you really so certain. What do you think the outcome will be when and not if, an airliner is downed as a result, direct or contributory, of drunk passenger(s). Should we wait and see until it happens, then sit back with a glass of wine in our hand and listen to the retinue of shrinks and chat about human factors and similar nonsense afterwards.

[maxred]

My nephew got a part time job at Weatherspoons, EGPF. His busiest shift? Early morning, 5-9. Extra staff required then. Who in their right mind, tanks up for a 7.00a.m flight? Plenty by the sounds of it. For what it's worth, my EZY story above. The prime culprit, the others all 14 of them, spent the entire flight, throwing up into sick bags, and threatening other passengers, was trying to kick the windows out. After full hyperventilation, she was administered oxygen, at my request, although frankly I would have hit her over the head with the canister, calmed down for ten minutes, then headbutted a cabin crew member. That's when we headed to Brest. No, sorry, it is just totally unacceptable. Oh, and had I decided to wade in, guess who's fault it would have been? Certainly not the customer with the medical problem.

[SMT Member]

That's exactly why I said "normally."

'Normally' shouldn't really have any place in this industry, when the consequences could be dire.

What's the longest journey it's possible to make with the airlines? 36 hours all in? Shouldn't it be possible to go without a drink for such a, relatively, short time? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a glass of bubbly and a nice red with what passes for food on board, but it's a privilege which should merit serious consideration in this day and age.

[G-CPTN]

Non-alcoholic wine?

I know that when I first tried it in the 1970s it was 'rubbish'.

Has it improved? (to the extent of being 'acceptable'?

I agree with prohibiting carry-on of 'duty free'.
The amount of flammable spirit being carried both ways surely constitutes a hazard?

Change the regulations to permit purchase after the flight (maybe with vouchers if necessary).
Allowing pax access to their own duty-free alcohol is madness IMO.

[Station_Calling]

Most of the destinations that cause us the most trouble, IBZ, PMI, ALC are within the EU, and so it is not duty free. In many cases it is more expensive than in your local shop. It is the mindset that says you need to buy a bottle of vodka for a 2 1/2 hour flight...

And out of 200+ pax, only a few will be a problem - why should the other 95% be denied a drink to start the holiday they may have been saving all year for?

Stronger penalties, the sale of only true duty-free, and the banning of airport shops selling miniatures - why would they do that? The airports and airport shops hold more responsibility here than the airlines...

[Piltdown Man]

HT - You are right, education has to be the answer. But how long do we have to wait? I'm sure there are cabin crew have sweats as soon as they see they are going to do a Friday night Corfu, Alicante, Ibiza etc. I'd hate to be in their position and I don't see why they or their fellow passengers should have to put up with the behaviour that we know will be exhibited on such flights.

A very public hard in-your-face reaction, imprisonment and a grotesque fine and subsequent destruction of that person's life will be a good lesson to others. We are not trying to educate the perpetrator; they are now a lost cause. We are trying to educate those who might misbehave in aircraft in the future.

[Sunfish]

they will just "pre-drink" at or before arriving at the airport. making airports and aircraft "dry" achieves nothing apart from making air travel more miserable than it already is.

standard routine: handcuffs, police, large fine, no fly list.

[G-CPTN]

On the subject of 'no fly' listing, I wonder how the chap who was refused access to a flight from one of the Balearic Islands has got on (or off . . . )?

[aterpster]

My experiences are from the "good old days," when I was flight crew on TWA 1964-90. Company policy was for the cabin crew to "pour generously" in First Class, but coach was purchase, limited to two little bottles, plus one wine at meal time. On International the boozed flowed in first class especially, and even in business class, but not in coach.

Never heard of a problem in those days, although I suppose there were some.

Since retirement, I have flown as a passenger a whole lot until perhaps 4 years ago. Again, I didn't see issues like described.

Personally, when I was on first class from JFK to MAD, or wherever, the fantastic meal service would have been dreadful without at least the generous pourings of fine wines.

[triploss]

they will just "pre-drink" at or before arriving at the airport. making airports and aircraft "dry" achieves nothing apart from making air travel more miserable than it already is.

standard routine: handcuffs, police, large fine, no fly list.

I'm not so sure about that. If someone is already obviously drunk and/or obnoxious, they can be denied at checkin or security. You wouldn't be removing the problem, but you get to keep it on the ground. In the airport you have ready access to security and/or police - no more need to deal with it in the confined environment of an aircraft.

[PoppaJo]

Australians are probably the worst, I've kicked of more Aussie's in the last 12 months than I ever did whilst in the U.K for 10 years. It's not just the drinking either, usually smoking and a new trend is mid flight fights.

Why don't airlines chase these clowns for costs? Had a idiot the other week who was on the verge of being kicked off, I reminded him that should I return back to the airport engineering will pass the bill on for overweight landing damage. He never said another word all flight. :ok:

[msbbarratt]

Non-alcoholic wine?
Change the regulations to permit purchase after the flight (maybe with vouchers if necessary).
Allowing pax access to their own duty-free alcohol is madness IMO.

SLF point of view. I'd want to buy before flying, but if it had to be retained by airport/airline staff for transport in the hold then perfect. One less thing to carry!

The airports are a big part of the problem. Barmen in the departure lounge bars are failing in their duty under licensing regulations to stop serving alcohol to people who've had enough. In theory they can lose their alcohol license on the spot. There's plenty of cops around, they must surely spot transgressions.

We have the laws necessary for dealing with the problem, they just need to be applied. New rules aren't going to help.

[flynerd]

I enjoy a drink. I fly a lot. I behave. Had one bad experience with a bunch of golfers new orleans-Orlando. Swearing, consuming booze they brought with them. Disgusting.

[Momoe]

Set a limit - say 35mg (same as driving limit).

If you test positive, you don't board and get a £500 fixed penalty and a 3 month passport ban, If you cause trouble onboard and test positive on arrival, you get a fixed penalty £500 and 3 month passport ban plus any additional charges.

It'll never happen because the profit made on alcohol sales outweighs the perceived risks, agree with station_calling, airport alcohol sales in the EU are often more expensive than supermarkets - What's the point?

Agree with Piltdown, you're not trying to educate the perpetrators, you're making anyone who follows think twice before getting on a plane pi$$ed.

[BEagle]

Divert and ban the drunken brawlers - don't make everyone suffer because a few cheap women behave like boozed-up sluts. They can take the boat or train back to whichever hovel whence they came.

Alcohol on an empty stomach won't help - I see that ba are ditching free economy class food on flights of less than 5 hours from next year. Their solution is to sell you an expensive M&S sandwich - but they won't accept cash, unlike other low cost airlines. For that's what they've become now.

[WindSheer]

Come on guys, get with it.

Your typical hen/stag party starts off in the road transport to the airport. Beers, shots, bubbly.....and then they arrive at the airport. Somehow they keep it sensible through security, and then straight into the bar for another half a dozen before boarding.

Some of these parties are literally 'hammered' when walking up the steps.
Some friends of mine recently stayed up all night and THEN traveled to the airport for the flight. They all flew.......

This isn't an airline issue, it's a cultural issue that is not regulated while transiting through the airport. I honestly think banning alcohol on board would see a couple of extra 'downed' in the airport in readiness for the 1 hour hop to Prague.......

Tougher regulation at airports.......simple!

[WHBM]

The problem is, in 99 out of 100 cases, alcohol.I don't believe that's the root problem. Although 99% of troublemakers may have been taking alcohol, that's always been there. What has changed in recent years is the ban on smoking, which can upset the addicts. Maybe they resort to alcohol in lieu, maybe they do so every day, but their bodies are unused to extended periods without smoking, and this is why the rise in trouble has coincided with the smoking ban. It would be good to know what proportion of troublemakers are smokers who are being prevented from having one for extended periods.

[oldchina]

Seriously, are you surprised that some Muslims despise us?
That our "civilisation" only has fun when it's pissed,
As a lifelong drinker but never troublesome...
We should stop looking down on others.
To be honest, our way is repulsive...
Let's stop treating it as normal.

[Chronus]

Whilst we have been discussing the semantics of alcohol fuelled passengers, yet another serious incident was about to take place. It happened yesterday on Ryan Air Flight Edinburgh to Alicante. During the altercation a 10 year old child was struck in the head by a flying bottle of wine.
The full article may be accessed at:

Drunken passengers arrested in Spain after causing mayhem in Ryanair jet - Travelandtourworld.comTravelandtourworld.com (http://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/drunken-passengers-arrested-in-spain-after-causing-mayhem-in-ryanair-jet/)

On this occasion a child was hit in the head, just imagine what could have happened to this child. When will those in authority say enough is enough and ban alcohol before boarding and during flight.

[wiggy]

Chronus

In my experience the vast vast majority of passengers on most flights behave themselves perfectly well despite having access to alcohol before and during the flight....

Before resorting to a blanket ban it might be better to look at which airlines are having these seemingly recurrent problems and why. Frankly if you deliberately aim to make money off the stag party market and similar demographic you'd be darned silly not to expect problems these days.

[DaveReidUK]

When will those in authority say enough is enough and ban alcohol before boarding and during flight.

Reportedly a brawl involving two separate stag party groups, members of whom were "absolutely hammered" by the time they boarded.

Major fail by whoever handles RYR at EDI.

[Station_Calling]

a 10 year old child was struck in the head by a flying bottle of wine

I am in no way way condoning this behaviour - if they had been on my flight I would have been considering a divert and offload.

However, 1) I don't agree with blanket bans as 95% of the travelling public are decent people capable of making their own decisions and controlling their behaviour, and 2) again, I'm not belittling the incident", but a flying bottle of wine" gives rise to thoughts of a big glass bottle flying through the air - in this instance it would be a small 187ml plastic bottle. Still capable of causing injury I'm sure, but not quite worthy of the headline.

It is a select few few who need dealing with - why do want to legislate against the other 95% of human beings who are decent people?

[Hotel Tango]

Poor kid may not be keen to fly again. Plastic bottle or not, if I was the parents I'd take the culprits to court and sue their ar$eS off!

[ExDubai]

yepp, but unfortunate not much will happen to those guys..

[jumbobelle]

If we want solutions we need to look at what happens to the pax long before they get to the aircraft. Start with an early wake up, stressed on the journey to the airport (M25, anyone?), remote parking, long cheque-in queues, queue for immigration, queue for security, clock's ticking...the security process itself (nuff said, if they weren't wound up before they are now), get bombarded though duty free (LGW and STN force you to and it's a horrible environment), not enough seating, confusing signage (I'm frequently asked to help lost and confused pax) and that's when its going smoothy! No wonder they want a drink. So they arrive at the aircraft stressed and tipsy, add to that 1 in 4 people are afraid of flying and it's not surprising it's an explosive mix. In my opinion, the airports and airlines need to be address their considerable contribution to passenger well-being before we can make headway in tackling this problem.

[sitigeltfel]

I have been through similar experiences, dozens of times at numerous airports, and have never felt the need to get rat-arsed. The problem is caused by a sub-set of humanity who have no regard for others and lack the morals for self control. The only solution is to ensure they are kept separate from booze in the run up to departure and heavy penalties plus a long no-fly ban for anyone who cannot behave. A few examples with their passports stamped "not valid for air travel" would concentrate minds.

[Hotel Tango]

The problem is caused by a sub-set of humanity who have no regard for others and lack the morals for self control.

That is exactly it!

[Geordie_Expat]

I don't know how much effect the "Duty Free" contributes but to be honest I have never understood why you have to buy DF on departure. This is just more weight to be carried both by individuals and aircraft. If you are gullible enough to buy DF, then make it available at the arrival airport.

[Hotel Tango]

If you are gullible enough to buy DF, then make it available at the arrival airport.

Which is the case in some countries.

[evansb]

Why do you consider purchasers of Duty-free goods as being gullible?

[SMT Member]

Probably because, outside of booze, fume and smokes on non-EU flights, the prices are exorbitant. Ever been in want of a pair of socks, undies, a tie or a pair of trouser, and found the airport shops your only option? And don't even get me started on the food and drinks.

But it's no wonder the prices are so high; rent per square meter at a major airport, will usually exceed by a large margin, that of the high street in the city it serves.

[Chronus]

In the 29 July 2016 edition of the Independent, their travel correspondent Simon Calder wrote about this subject. He informed readers that UK aviation minister Lord Ahmad had vowed to tackle drink - fuelled air rage.
Simon Calder`s comment was:
"My research on two years of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) “reportable occurrences” of air rage show alcohol is the principle trigger of inflight disruption. In the two years to March 2016 an average of four people a week were arrested on suspicion of being drunk on a plane or at an airport. And worldwide, one aviation security expert estimates alcohol-fuelled air rage affects around 50 flights a day."

Simon raised a number of questions, an interesting one is what could happen in an emergency evacuation. Would a paraletic moron, totally sozzled out of its (cannot possibly refer to such loathsome creatures as his/her ) miniscule brain not present a fearful danger to itself and all others who chance the misfortune of sharing a cabin with it. And if there is a group of them, then surely any measure of risk is bound to go exponentially off the scale.

Here is the link to the news article.
Airport alcohol rule changes: What you need to know about the new rules on drinking as an airline passenger | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/airports-alcohol-drinking-rules-laws-government-ban-beer-wine-allowance-flying-a7161666.html)

To all those who consider that there are "half measures", I`d say forget it, those imbeciles don`t go by half measures, they would quite happily drink a distillery dry and still ask for more.

[fokker1000]

I'm sorry not to have had time to sift through all the above…

When I operate a typically problematic flight [ie: late night IBZ amongst others], I have the airport police at the gate with the dispatcher and am up there when able to say if I'm not going to accept a pax due to behaviour, that in my opinion, is lightly to cause a safety issue to the flight, or other passengers, due to the appearance of being intoxicated through drink or drugs, or for any reason I believe might may be detrimental to the safety flight.

I want people to have a safe flight, and yes, enjoy a drink, but I don't want passengers to have to sit next to a drunk who will be sick all over themselves, or the passengers next to them!

And, finally… When your aircraft is delayed from the previous sector [flight], it might just have been because your carrier had to recover/replace a row of seats due to projectile vomit.. So are you going to claim from the passenger? the airline? the duty free store? or litigate the passenger?

Answers on a post card please…

That is why I don't let clearly drunk people on my flight! I don't want to sit next to them, do you?

[G-CPTN]

Bravo!
Pubs and clubs have the right to refuse entry to anyone. There doesn't have to be a legitimate reason (though refusal because of skin colour can be dodgy) - but anyone who is obviously drunk is a prime candidate for exclusion.
The same should apply to aircraft.

[Loose rivets]

Sorry if this had been seen before but just thought this snippet might slot in here.




From Business Insider UK Susan Fiske, a professor at Princeton University, cited a study that was published in May 2016.

My Bold. If true, what an astonishing observation.



1. Simply walking through first class on a plane can make economy passengers really, really angry

Researchers found that fliers who were reminded of social inequality were more likely to get angry and start "air-rage" incidents, becoming abusive or unruly toward crew members and other passengers.

Specifically, air-rage incidents in the economy class were nearly four times more common in planes with a first-class cabin. And those incidents were more than twice as common in planes that required passengers to board from the front, meaning everyone had to walk through the first-class cabin.

Bottom line: No one likes being reminded that other people are getting better treatment than they are, especially after they've shelled out a hefty sum for a flight.

[Station_Calling]

Can't remember the last time I saw a first class cabin on Ryanair, Easyjet, Jet2.com, Monarch, etc...

It may be true, but the greater truism is that chavs, alcohol and aircraft don't - or shouldn't - mix.

And "hefty sum"? With flight's starting at £9.99 I'm not sure it's hefty.

[Hotel Tango]

No one likes being reminded that other people are getting better treatment than they are, especially after they've shelled out a hefty sum for a flight.

What utter nonsense! You pay for what you can afford. If you want a better lifestyle you need a good income. If you want a good income you work hard for it. End of. As for shelling out a hefty sum, what do you think those in Business Class have shelled out then? Finally, as already mentioned, most of the operators who suffer above average disruption don't even have Business or First class. No, the truth is that the pond life of society can now afford to fly and behave on a/c just as they do in the street.

[ExXB]

IATA reports 11,000 incidents in a year. A big increase from the previous but still insignificant compared to the 18,000,000 yearly flights (back of the envelope guess).

Those airlines that suffer it need to look at their practices and the practices of their partners. For example telling an airport they will find an alternative if they don't control booze sales. Random breathalyser checks reported in the daily mail would have a significant effect, methinks.

[maxred]

Major fail by whoever handles RYR at EDI.

Do they have handlers?

No, the truth is that the pond life of society can now afford to fly and behave on a/c just as they do in the street.

And there is the problem. I intimated it in an earlier post. However, slightly more complex. The airports, giving the low co operators minimum charge operation, look to recoup the money from the shopping mall sales approach. A Weatherspoons, or equivalent, is also conveniently provided, for the punters. A case in point was the Irish Bar, at Beauvais, France. I once boarded the last flight, RYR, on a Friday night, to GOW, with my family. I had missed my CDG flight. There were animals urinating in the aisle. It was astonishing.

Anyway, thats how they behave in the street, and they do not differentiate when in an aeroplane. You reap what you sow, as the saying goes...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

As for shelling out a hefty sum, what do you think those in Business Class have shelled out then?
In my case, absolutely nothing at all, every time I've been in Business Class - my employer has paid every single time.

[maxred]

Folks, for those that do not believe there are any issues. On a certain loco, on certain flights, to a certain party island, lines of what resembles talcum powder, are being cut off the tables. Now, for the uninitiated, HepB is a danger. The way to combat that is cover the tables in Olive Oil, but not sure the CC have worked that out. Alcohol is frankly the tip of the iceberg..and the least, frankly, of the problems.

[Mr Optimistic]

Same here. I value my meagre cache of cash (thank you) to pay for business class. My employer doesn't share my scruples. I thought there was an inquiry or something about the availability of alcohol at airports proposed.

[Hotel Tango]

GtW, doesn't matter. If your employer chooses to let you fly in Business Class you've earned it. And, believe it or not, many of us pay for Business Class out of our own pockets these days.

[MrSnuggles]

What if the company started offering non-drinking flights? Maybe one every three days or something, just to check demand?
I realise there will be some thinking through to do beforehand, but why not try it?

[Council Van]

Monarch 933 from TFS to Birmingham turned around after about 30 mins and returned to TFS to off load two passengers who were misbehaving, apparently one was trying to set his own hands on fire.


Birmingham flight diverted after passenger disruption | Central - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-10-27/birmingham-flight-diverted-after-passenger-disruption/)

[core_dump]

Apparently he was using lighter fuel to light his hands on fire... so a run-of-the-mill bar trick rather than a mentally disturbed individual. Well until it gets to the part where the FA asked for the lighter and "he refused and attempted to light the lighter in her face". No doubt alcohol induced.

[Chronus]

I`d agree with core dump and also guess the propellant was alcohol and not lighter fuel, that being the initiating cause in the chain which on this occasion mercifully failed to link with all the others waiting for the opportunity to join up.

[Alsacienne]

I thought lighters were banned from hand baggage? Plus aerosols and lighter fuel ....

[lomapaseo]

I thought lighters were banned from hand baggage? Plus aerosols and lighter fuel ...

he might have hidden them inside his Samsung 7 fire proof shield for later use

[vapilot2004]

I thought lighters were banned from hand baggage? Plus aerosols and lighter fuel ....

Personal care aerosols (under about three and half ounces) are fine and the carry on lighter ban was lifted in the US nearly a decade ago. Typically the EASA parrots a fair amount of TSA rules.

[Alsacienne]

Monarch 933 from TFS to Birmingham

... don't think we're talking Birmingham AL here though. and I would have thought that lighter fuel (in any container) could be considered a 'personal care aerosol' but then I'm known for being behind the times!! ;-)

[core_dump]

You wouldn't necessarily need a separate bottle of lighter fluid to perform the trick. If you overfilled your zippo, there would be more than enough fluid in there that you could pour (or squeeze out). As for getting the lighter through security, throw it in a small pocket of your hand luggage with some pocket change. I've done that accidentally plenty of times, back when I smoked.

Or maybe the lighter was hidden where his head was stowed.

[vapilot2004]

Monarch 933 from TFS to Birmingham

... don't think we're talking Birmingham AL here though. and I would have thought that lighter fuel (in any container) could be considered a 'personal care aerosol' but then I'm known for being behind the times!! ;-)

Well it is entirely possible our addiction to the consumption (and sale of) tobacco has led to an unusual split between TSA and EASA rules on lighters (and matches). I believe you are correct for travel under EASA rules. :ok:

Oh, and thank you for the Birmingham, AL reference. :D

[blue up]

Zippo petrol lighters not allowed in UK aircraft. Gaseous liquid lighters permitted upon the person but not in any luggage.

...or has that changed?

[tdracer]

Assuming core dump has it right and it was a drunken attempt to 'show off', I wonder just how drunk one would have to be to think that lighting your hands on fire on an airborne aircraft wasn't a really, really bad idea :ugh:

[core_dump]

Zippo petrol lighters not allowed in UK aircraft. Gaseous liquid lighters permitted upon the person but not in any luggage.

...or has that changed?

I have no idea, but how in the world are you going to light your hands on fire with gaseous butane? If you had an aerosol butane canister and squirted it onto your hands upside down, would it not evaporate before you could possibly get your hand lit? I've never tried that method. It would not be impressive to your drunk friends even if it did do something at all.

As for what's allowed, I don't think someone drunk enough to pull this stunt on an aircraft cares in the least what's allowed and not.

[bullfox]

No rational explaination need apply.

[crewmeal]

I trust the culprits will pay dearly for the 'return' flight.

[Mozella]

........ snip............I wonder just how drunk one would have to be to think that lighting your hands on fire on an airborne aircraft wasn't a really, really bad idea

I think the answer is "regular drunk". You can't do bar tricks successfully if you're "knee-walking drunk".

I'm old enough to remember drinking Flaming Hookers at the O-Club bar. Although I never set my face on fire, I witnessed several of my fellow Naval Aviators do exactly that. Often the flames engulfed their hands too. None of them were particularly drunk, just regular drunk.

Of course, that was a long time ago when performing stunts at the bar was considered just good old fun. Fighter pilots were expected to be ....... um........... colorful. These days even driving by the O-Club might be harmful to your career.

[vapilot2004]

I have no idea, but how in the world are you going to light your hands on fire with gaseous butane?

Apparently, you and I had a different set of friends growing up, CD. ;)

[Basil]

Mozella, this was 50 years ago :{

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/Bensonboysbehavingbadly1968.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Capn_Basil/media/Bensonboysbehavingbadly1968.jpg.html)

Take one Ministry ashtray, invert top, place two Roman candles therein, liberally douse with lighter fuel and ignite.
And that was one of the lesser stunts.

At one 'do' the band was blown up with a thunderflash resulting in an on-the-spot rebuke - followed by an anxious wait until Monday to discover if it was going to be 'taken further'; it wasn't.

[SMT Member]

I wonder just how drunk one would have to be to think that lighting your hands on fire on an airborne aircraft wasn't a really, really bad idea

My faith in the mental faculties of todays youth is such, that I believe no thought process of theirs would lead them to think that far. Drunk or sober.

[mommus]

I have it on good authority from cabin crew on a major Gulf carrier that by far the worst flights for drunkenness are those originating or terminating in Manchester and Glasgow.

Make of that what you will.

[eu01]

And another example of a disruptive behaviour (FR 2906, BRU to MLA, 4th November): Shocking moment huge fight erupts between travellers on Ryanair plane after elderly woman hit on the head (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2119411/shocking-moment-huge-fight-erupts-between-travellers-on-ryanair-plane-after-elderly-woman-hit-on-the-head/)

[maxred]

Make of that what you will.

What I struggle to understand is that there are now two return flights a day with that sandpit carrier to GOW. They appear pretty full. The load quality appears equivalent to the LoCo. Where is all the money coming from to facilitate all of this?

[Iceheart]

A note from the country where the word "vodka" comes from.

Obviously, the issue with alcohol-induced behavior onboard the aircraft was well-known here (note the past tense). Nowadays, most, if not all, local airlines impose a blanket ban on consuming any alcohol on board, including those Duty Free items. The only exemption is the alcohol offered and purchased in flight; however, none is offered in Economy class. Then, a few high-profile cases ending with a lengthy jail terms helped to soothe the things down a bit, too.

Did the air travel grind to a halt? No, not at all. Was the problem solved? Not entirely, but it has become manageable.

No compassion to those who can't survive a hour-long flight without a shot, really.