Embraer 170-195 Authrottle.

[Haseen]

Dear:
I do flight simming in pc, fsx. I understand Boeing & Airbus Autothrottle/autothrust. But confused about Emb 170-195. Do the throttles have servo motors which cause the throttle levers move back & forth during cruise, descent, approach & landing to adjust speed like Boeings? Or they stay at a fixed position detent like Airbus? Please help.

[renard]

The thrust levers move with the authrottle engaged.

They are very easy to override manually if required.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Indeed. I used to override them on approaches all the time.

[Haseen]

The thrust levers move with the authrottle engaged.

They are very easy to override manually if required.

Dear Renard:
Thanks for your reply. I am recently trying to fly Feelthere Embraer 195/175 in my PC FSX Acc. But their docs are not enough.
1. For Flex temp TO do the pilot put thottles full forward or a detent position?
2. How Climb power is set?
3. I saw some position markings on the throttle quadrant. What are they?
4. What is the approach flaps & gear down sequence for a typical ILS app.?

[Piltdown Man]

1. The autothrottle is armed and the lever are advanced to 40%. When the engines are stabilised, they are further advanced until the autothrottle becomes active and places them in the TOGA detent. This will give the thrust selected on the TRS page.
2. By selecting LVLCH on climb out.
3. Something for engineers? I've never used them.
4. Me - Try to hit green dot at the top of the glide slope and select Flaps 1. At 5nm, lower the gear, Flaps 3 and set speed 140. At 1,000' set Flaps 5 and VAP. With ice speeds add 10 Kts. For cloudbase below 2,000', configure so everything is set and selected by 1,000' AGL.

PM

[Haseen]

1. The autothrottle is armed and the lever are advanced to 40%. When the engines are stabilised, they are further advanced until the autothrottle becomes active and places them in the TOGA detent. This will give the thrust selected on the TRS page.
2. By selecting LVLCH on climb out.
3. Something for engineers? I've never used them.
4. Me - Try to hit green dot at the top of the glide slope and select Flaps 1. At 5nm, lower the gear, Flaps 3 and set speed 140. At 1,000' set Flaps 5 and VAP. With ice speeds add 10 Kts. For cloudbase below 2,000', configure so everything is set and selected by 1,000' AGL.

PM

Dear Piltdown:
Thanks for your specific replies which exactly I was looking for.
Q3.I saw in a video throttle markings like: idle, reverse, full reverse etc. But I can't see what is written forward. Is it only 'TOGA'?
Thanks again & Eid Mubarak.
Regards,
Haseen Ahmad
Avionics Engr., B777, B737, A310
Biman
Bangladesh.

[renard]

The forward marking on the thrust lever quadrant is MAX.

The one before that is TOGA, where the thrust levers go when you set take off thrust or press the TOGA button for a go around.

To go to MAX you have to push the levers through a detent and it disengages the auto throttle.

[Haseen]

The forward marking on the thrust lever quadrant is MAX.

The one before that is TOGA, where the thrust levers go when you set take off thrust or press the TOGA button for a go around.

To go to MAX you have to push the levers through a detent and it disengages the auto throttle.

Thank you very much Renard.

[Piltdown Man]

Renard is totally correct. Furthermore, MAX can only ever be used with two engines running. With single engine you are restricted to Take-off reserve (RSV).

PM

[Chesty Morgan]

PM, I flew the 195 for a while (175 very briefly). Can't remember needing to add 10kts for ice as icing was already covered by the standard speeds we flew.

Is this a new thing or has my memory gone pop?

[Piltdown Man]

The 195 could be different. The minimum speeds in ours (175 & 190) are green dot or if "STALL PROT SPEED" then green dot plus 10. Final Approach speeds, Flaps 5 carry an increment of plus 7 or 8 over the non ice speed. There is no ice increment for Flaps Full.

PM

[FE Hoppy]

The ice speeds are different for EASA v FAA and different for 170/175 and 190/195.

The cat ii/iii speeds are different too.

[Haseen]

Dear:

I don't understand the Emb 195/175 approach speeds.
1. What is green dot speed?
2. What is VAC flaps 2 and VAC flaps 3?
3. If I have flaps 1, what speed should I maintain?
4. Could any one give me a picture of PFD speed scale that would show the approach speeds in sequence and explain what action to take at which speed?

Thanks.

[Piltdown Man]

Ok, here we go:

1. At high altitudes green dot speed is near enough your minimum drag speed. So if an engine fails, this is the speed your should fly at. At lower levels, this the minimum speed you should fly for efficiency and controlability in your current configuration. Therefore this is a good straight line holding speed. Adding a few knots means that you are more speed stable in turns. When the message "STALL PROT SPEED" is displayed, the previous is true as long as you add 10 knots.
2. VAC is approach climb and technically this does not exist in Flaps 2. With Flaps 3 it depends on your weight when you made your approach in Flaps 5.
3. Anything between Green Dot (or Green Dot plus 10 with ice) and 230 knots. But if I was flying I'd stick closer to the minimum rather than the maximum.
4. There is no need. I'll make it simple. Fly to your FAF so that you reach Green Dot plus 10 or so one mile before. Select Flaps 1. Slow to Green Dot plus 10. Between 5 and 6 miles, lower the gear and select Flaps 3. Slow to Green Dot plus 10. At approx. 1,300' select your landing flap and final approach speed. Job done.

The important thing in everything above is that what you when do depends on your weight. The lighter you are, the slower the speeds. Fortunately, the aircraft works this out for you.

PM

[Haseen]

Dear Piltdown Man:

Thanks. That would be of great help.

[FE Hoppy]

Sorry to but in again.
1) Stall Prot ICE speed.

2) FAA landing flap 5 go around flap 2.

So FAA tables have VAC F2 rather than EASA which normally have VAC F3. However, there is an option for improved go around performance for EASA aircraft which uses F2 go around.

It's never as cut and dried as you think.

[Haseen]

Dear Piltdown Man:

Please refer your reply of 9 Jul 2016, 01:49.

I set up a training flight at VGEG, takeoff from RW 23and landing ILS RW23 with Emb 175. The gross wt. was 32000 Kg. Crz Alt 4000 ft. At 4000 ft. Green dot speed was 220 kts. Before intercepting localizer, I set flaps 1. Green dot speed dropped to 205 kts.

1.Is it okay to intercept localizer at that high speed? In a 737-800/A320 localizer interception speed is on an average 170 kts with flaps 5/config2.

2. Why the flaps 1 Green dot speed is so high?

3. Is it okay to use flaps 2 or 3 and slow to flaps 2 or 3 Green dot speed before intercepting localizer?

[FE Hoppy]

ILS CAT I
When performing an ILS CAT I, pilot’s should use the autopilot and autothrottle to minimize crew workload.
When starting the deceleration segment, approaching the airport while either being radar vectored or using own navigation, slow the airplane to 210 KIAS, at base leg select flap 1 reducing to flap 1 maneuvering speed. When maneuvering to intercept the localizer, select flap 2 reducing to flap 2 maneuvering speed.
When cleared for the approach and airplane is established on an intercept heading of less than 90° of the inbound track, select the APP mode on the guidance panel to arm the LOC and GS and set vertical speed using VNAV/FPA/FLCH or VS as required to capture the glide slope.
Once captured, the glide slope will become active and the go-around altitude may now be set on the Guidance Panel. When One dot to intercept the glide slope, extend landing gear, select flap 3 reducing to flap 3 maneuvering speed. At GS capture, select landing flaps, reducing to the VAP. For far ILS captures, the gear extension and landing flaps can be delayed, however the airplane must be configured with gear down and landing flaps prior to FAF or 5 NM from the threshold, whichever comes first.
If the aircraft cannot meet the stabilized approach criteria, execute a missed approach.


Your simulator may not properly represent the aircraft so don't worry just enjoy yourself.

[Piltdown Man]

Thanks FE H, it's interesting how different authorities mandate different techniques for flying the same airframe. Presumably the manufacturer puts forward a menu of different configurations and the great and good from the FAA and (muppets from) EASA then say how we drive the thing. Just out if interest, are these different techniques chargeable extras for airlines or do they just get told what to do?

PM

[Haseen]

Dear FE Hoppy:

Thank you very much for the Embraer approach procedure. Now it looks much better.

Regards,

Haseen Ahmad
Bangladesh.

[Piltdown Man]

Haseen - I agree with FE H here as well. My tables show a clean Green Dot speed for a 175 at 32 tons of about 190 Kts. Therefore slowing up to 170-180 to intercept the LOC would be a good idea. If it means using Flaps 2 or 3, then so be it.

PM

[FE Hoppy]

@ Piltdown.
The flap for go around was down to slightly different amc for missed approach performance. The guys at Embraer told me it was due to when the engine is considered to fail.

Then because they had the performance data for F2 approach climb they offered it the EASA customers as an option $$$$. Just as the have expanded temperature options and CG options each of which were done to secure a deal with one airline and then offered as an option to others.

[Haseen]

Haseen - I agree with FE H here as well. My tables show a clean Green Dot speed for a 175 at 32 tons of about 190 Kts. Therefore slowing up to 170-180 to intercept the LOC would be a good idea. If it means using Flaps 2 or 3, then so be it.

PM

Thanks Piltdown for replying. Feelthere only provided takeoff & landing speeds.. no green dot speed table.

[Haseen]

Dear:

After take off and AP engagement, when VNAV is selected, speed remains at takeoff speed with speed selector at AUTO/FMS. When will it accelerate to climb speed automatically?

[Piltdown Man]

Acceleration should take place when you select LVLCH providing the criteria set in the Departure Speeds page are met (altitude or distance). Failing that use manual speeds and increase the target speed to one you wish to fly at during flap retraction (Flaps 1, say 210 Kts) and 250 Kts when clean.

PM

[Haseen]

Dear Piltdown Man:

Thanks for being in touch.

1. By LVLCH, do you mean pressing LVLCH botton or VNAV button? Because LVLCH botton causes normal LVLCH (open loop) and VNAV causes magenta LVLCH meeting the alt/speed constraints.

2. The FMS Departure speed page shows the following default data:
speed restriction: 200 Kts, altitude: 2500 ft., dist.: 4 NM.

3. But after 1000 ft., with speed selector at FMS mode when I engage AP and press VNAV, speed target maintains v2+10 kts (Magenta) and never accelerates. Even LVLCH button does not help. When I select MAN speed mode and select higher speed manually, say 200 kts, the plane accelerates as demanded.

4. Am I making any mistake? or that's a bug in the Feelthere simulation?

[fizz57]

First off I'd like to thank the other respondents on this thread for being uncommonly kind to a simmer and providing the sort of detail we ground-hogs can only drool over.


Haseen, I have the feelthere e-jets and I can't reproduce what you're getting. I've just had a go with the 175.

- Setting the AT source to FMS on the ground, flaps 1, gave a speed target of 151 knots (V2+20 at my weight);

- after taking off, at around 400ft, the speed target increased to 200 with green dot at 205. Engaging the AP and AT, the aircraft (sorry, model!) accelerated as expected;

- passing 2500 ft. the speed target increased to 230 (VFE flaps 1);

- retracting the flaps at green dot changed the speed target to 240;

- passing 10000 ft the speed target changed to 290, which was the FMS commanded climb speed.


I can't vouch for the validity of the speeds but the logic seems correct.

[Piltdown Man]

There is nothing wrong and yes I do mean LVLCH. On departure, the aircraft is in Take Off mode. LVLCH selects selects climb power and accelerates the aircraft either to a speed manually entered or the one pre-selected in the the FMS. But please understand that if you departed with FMS speeds, the aircraft will not accelarate until either 2,500' or four miles has been flown, delending on the limit chosen.

PM

[Haseen]

Dear PM:

Thanks for your reply. So there is the catch..the plane will maintain FMS speed till 2500ft. Now I get it. Thanks again.

[davidjh]

So..a solution Haseen, would be to change the FMS speed parameters (assuming that you don't want to use manual speeds) to something that will suit you. My understanding is that the 200kts/2500'/4nm parameters are to satisfy FAR requirements not to fly faster than 200kts in Class C or D airspace. Try changing the 2500' to 1000' and the 4nm to 2nm.